Trident: Supersub or Dinosaur?

orlando production of casey ts this program was made possible in part by a grant from the washington commission for the humanities move as be destroyed it was the money used to turn to a new passage consumer sentiment future and it's more important than a b one bomber as an honest credible an effective deterrent survivability instability make it a good weapon them probably the most popular

weapon in our arsenal today the soviet strategic nuclear capability had overtaken our own and that if the soviets were going to be restrained any degree of all kick some new system like character my name is dr was imprisoned or might be a dinosaur we have to date over five thousand nuclear weapons in our submarine force and the sole purpose of those five thousand nuclear weapons in our submarines is tissue that the soviet union so it's just ridiculous to at still another system like the tribe and it's unnecessary this is redundant it's worth less than usual because of their human world and so in a sense i think the likelihood is detroit and will be home at present under construction is our newest generation of strategic nuclear

missiles submarines is on to replace the current fleet of forty one dollars poseidon suvs this is belarus dr will be almost twice that size almost two football fields in length with the latest submarine technology dr will have a longer lifespan the more easily repairable and instead see longer than his predecessors designers say it will also be quieter perhaps most important driving will have a new longer range missile dryden one hour now and it's a marine will carry twenty four dryden one missiles in each missile launcher and even wanted to nuclear warheads moved so they can be independently aimed at separate targets a single warhead will have at least six times the

destructive force of the russian mob arm one cell could destroy any country honor the four thousand mile range of the dryden one missile will give the submarine the capacity destroyed russian targets from directly off the pacific coast if necessary even from home ported bangor the same new missiles we'll also be carried out of the side and so it's one reason why critics say the current saab is unnecessary vicki was led to the first ride the ohio this past spring it will arrive in bangalore an early seventy nine costs have escalated thirty five percent in the last two years and showed that the one program he got dry that will be the most expensive weapon system yet developed by the us each service costing roughly one point eight billion dollars eighteen point eight billion for the ten overall track is considered by many to be our best or most survivable strategic weapon for the next several

decades money and gordon will cut i was asked by the producers to do the interviews in the show is they want somebody without appointed un tried and it wasn't a regular tv person throughout this program i was surprised and pleased that i could say what i wanted to a nasa questions i wanted to i began with a look at the bangor base across puget sound from seattle six hundred million dollars of construction isn't progress preparing for driving the basis for years service or subs but now bangor will be the only base in the world bringing crews and servicing the dryden flight over twenty five percent of all nuclear warheads in the us arsenal will be carried in the planned eleven current science i wondered about having tried and so close to a metropolitan area and whether greece is a prime target of going i wouldn't i would not think that would make you

any more of a target than really seattle that is the home state of washington has today there's no way to defend bang bangor is going to be the prime target in the country after having spent a few years in the strategic target and buttons myself i would say that the russians have not already scheduled at least a dozen or so weapons in this area they're displaying far less intelligence are given credit for and won any new threat comes naturally put more weapons on there's no question the puget sound area is already a target but we also now have the only base in the world serving is incredible that transports called dr we are officially classified a category one kind of forced target it's something we don't want to talk about or think about and it seemed that maybe certainly doesn't like questions being asked about it i was interested when i visited the base to

find their public affairs officer visibly uncomfortable talking about nuclear weapons on the base you've told me this is were the missiles will be for the training lot the senate bill they'll be careful thought what if they have everything in them you're a manipulative us well they'll have a long have you this i don't know anything about the biases that does classified information well government law i can be an ally in illinois but that's an armed submarines armed missiles will have about their patrol i guess i can make the assumption myself that it would be much better to see the trident base didn't help would bring home a bit

more would ignore means the kind of strike that could occur in the puget sound area with anger is one of the many targets as several scenarios for instance allowing technicians think it's likely a one megaton air burst woodhead one megaton is over fifty times more than the regime a bomb within seven miles burns would be deadly and twenty miles one hundred mile an hour winds windows blown out buildings damaged but some of these people think it's possible a twenty megaton bomb a hit such a blast wooden center at the base within nine miles people would die of burns at eighty miles they would be seriously injured and burned and fifty miles away windows blown out in buildings damaged boeing scenario is based on everest which means no radioactive fallout results however this brazil's perfect accuracy if it is a land receivers to follow would be enormous inventory one megaton bomb a

radioactive particles the news martin produced this fallout pattern for the puget sound region for a one megaton blast in the first hour ten minutes of radiation exposure would cause sickness forty minutes would be fatal each succeeding hour is full of spreads it's still dangerous depending on how long a person is exposed our knowledge of what survey or radiation poisoning means comes from the victims of the regime and nagasaki bombs victims' experience severe bleeding wasn't there and it's usually follows within a few weeks there's a lot of material available from the regional civil defense people concerning similar bans preparedness and i was interested to know whether or not any special plans are being made now the trident is in the area i spoke with raymond

daley director of the department of emergency services it's a piece of libya's a photo so there's another reading around here as well in the county we have approximately sixteen shelters not say approximately the coast guard building is going on and has substantial buildings are built we had that to our shelter in the door i will add one thing a little unique in this county we have licensed some of the reserve ships or shelters now ever non then they'll take one of these users ships and scrap it so that it's reducing our shelter in that it usually is around the sixty mile momentum of the only showing the only actual license packages that the they don't necessarily have signs those are the moment but you can get most of our shelters that are licensed to have signs now on a summer day people prefer not to have to sign and we don't argue with them on there with your new images of destroyed

by and well our program there again that presupposes that if a strike is inevitable there will be some indications that there will be some time for taking last minute preparations we don't know we don't know what we're assuming that there will be some time now we have a supply of jail or mocking material on hand in it wouldn't take long for us to commandeer a few people are helpless and peele michael our shoulders or they are to most americans than thirty seconds in which you were trying to say the most important thing to anybody who might what's this program about preparedness for aluminum ladders going to bang or what would determine what i would tell the people and so yes i would simply give them the bad news is no he's not there's conflicting opinion among

authorities and surviving a nuclear strike experts and boeing field is no question we could survive they base their thinking on the russians approach last defense against a nuclear weapon of any kind to be somewhere else and it goes off a lot of people can do for you or simply walk out to the end of the small towns in the collective farms which is the russian foreigners know it's not our way are appalachian sister didn't really the population and distributing the steinway the russians planted distributors had more time or not the same kind of moving people around and distribute them over a wide area therefore they cannot beat her do we have a plan like that really did not should we yes we should let you get no thanks we worry about not take a hollywood and a surly were you were at julliard you can survive or six dollars and fifty cents you can why the world's best survival manual for the department of commerce to translation of the russian

civil defense text take a city like seattle tacoma if you tried at rush hour to get everybody out of the same time you have a big problem so i don't see how you can possibly to get people out in a real emergency but even if you got him out of the city that's in this current plan is to actually people weeks and fans from around the country what you going to do with how you going to feed them even if you don't have an attack but then after the attack nuclear weapons today are so destructive but they'll pollute the water system they'll pollute the so if you look at the photographs he routinely stricken with the destruction and people they've declared unfavorable and they were out of their mind if you look at those same photographs the way the russians have looked at the news to the things that survived for example a one day after the bomb in hiroshima the bridges and the downtown area you're trying to do

how why going so many million people is changing the way for example nuclear exchange rate would wipe out the ozone layer and that was it that was all over the world you know we're not the fall in line not indeed it gets to the point where the soviet union unite states are tossing the size of each other either one horrible vali there isn't a place it's going to be safe no place really and by

that time you passed so many milestones and some any clear cut indications that the situation is deteriorating and i don't think anybody could really delude themselves that they were going to be safe we want to maintain a stable nuclear balance in the future that were made with that will assure that we know are not endangered by nuclear strike and we need to try to now yvonne elliman you're going to say well we're really too nervous about the notion that we might get hit would rather not have the base here somebody else should do it there really isn't any other place to put it that i've heard and if you say well we're too nervous about being a target are it really doesn't matter if the trident program is that much delayed because we don't want the target well in my opinion you heighten the possibility of the stabilizing that whole delicate balance because you were going to delay a trial program that is essential to stabilizing the balance in future and making sure that you don't get to the point where missiles are being tossed across the world

given the overwhelming impact of trident on this area it's surprising how little is known about the decision making process to place it here water heller has a summer home here on the canal near bangor and is a former economic advisor to presidents kennedy and johnson is an insider's view of how the political process works in has been a longtime critic of dried if you talk about the decision process let me say that's one place where really have some some question review the question about how things have you know they had heard in north florida and then south carolina let them dr missile might be located there a trident missile submarine base and i was a public outcry and it didn't happen i'm not saying it didn't happen because it was the public outcry but the fact remains a there was a public outcry be it wasn't the town now what about seeing what about

the advance notice of that might be put in bangor well i was directly involved in that and i talked to senator jackson's office they had been his office had been very good about keeping us informed concerning the possible expansion of the base for entirely different reasons having nothing to do on this is pre trident and so when i began to hear that the trident submarine base might possibly be located about eroded as a singer from a single person michael jackson's off of the one chance at a hundred after her speak before which allies saidi thank you will by a year this information people who had begun to worry about it said well no one and undergoes a pretty good odds and so no public protest was modern at all and no chance for protest was granted all of a sudden one day the thunder claps sound

and then the twenty billion dollars or the boats were being put in our midst quite frankly as sen jackson as chairman senate chairman that his vote or the ranking members of the senate armed services committee was kind of following the decision or the delegation i can tell you that within seven days the time the decision was made of cinder jackson's staff was convinced that it would not be in puget sound they thought was going to go to charleston south carolina and as far as i know no member of our congressional delegation had any who was consulted in advance news and reject with i don't know that directly by note center magnusson and carton kids were not nearly two people involved were not consulted in advance about the final decision to locate that i never asked them to go there and they made that decision and that many witnesses of those so testified at rules on wall who was then in

charge sold testified and it was the only location that was available on the west coast and they want a trident located in the pacific you change your vote from the committee's questions before discussions on the van's movement which would've slow down the development of trident can you tell me which your concerns were about the speed at which the program has been violent chalet how the new laws that they're weaker dollar does for peace that was based on certain assumptions is tilapia soviets were going and i became convinced that you know we didn't need to accelerate a decision was made to put the bass in washington and it just so happens that jackson was against the program initially the connection between the two and i don't mean

by no you do it the pentagon would clearly recognize that without that jackson supported dr coburn would never want to see that this never would've taken or so jackson's vote was absolutely crucial that i think was what can we do without power without input what can we do to make sure that they probably would not have you know animals or more with chief of naval operations when key decisions were made and drive i asked him how you get such a program through congress well you do it by hard work and with the help of some magnificent

members of the senate the most important which is your own senator scoop jackson whose of assistance saving the day as part of a major effort first to cut back and articulate he told me all the study relied on that all things being equal you just do not have that base located in washington after we'd completed the study and it was clear that from a strategic standpoint for a number of reasons this was bought the best place to put it i went back to him and he said i think that's what's required for the country now are supported week we assume that we knew because obviously senate action supporters like that and he was kind of a patriotic version that we're going to put the countries' interests about his own political interest little

more about how a weapon system such as driving passes through the halls of congress and the pentagon and i found right here in seattle's someone with a unique perspective on the whole process and the problems of getting information rick weidman as former legislative assistant to senator medicine oregon is that a weapon systems and at one example of the kind of problems he had getting information one there never was really it have to do with the navy's attempt to expand the base over wrangler i think now that it's starting to operate and sixty eight and i was very very young legislate a system that time but i had an interest in this because it happened that my parents were very close the base so when senator gregg and said we ought to find out why they're kind of standard i have volunteered for the sign this before i had my top secret clearance and i spent a long long time working with the navy to try to explain why we want to acquire more land why they want to spend that day and he had several different explanations and none of them seem to make much sense one involved whether not be the

site where they kept explosives than exploding her crew only looked at her chart looked at or looked as if for a lower cost than acquired all the land they could relocate explosives on the basement can solve that problem and about the time i made that suggestion it's parenting that the reason i couldn't give a sense that i could know because it didn't have a top secret clearance so i went to the process i've been here and find out what it was that they were you know about the other thing that the whole point was to get there for five months and when i did get the parents i then started and then suddenly now that i had a career and that there were no plans at all or nothing that i didn't know about it or it'll be arrogant or where they were and in frustration i have walked down the hall to the office of another veteran at the top of one of his assistants whom i'd been working with on his problems and i walk in and they're witnesses then just happen to be standing and in charge of

bangor they manage our iranian in line with the new year here that didn't exist and i didn't want to be or would he have gone in on this chartered it had been unable to find out about it so it's not appear the lines on the chart that the government tell me what this period and they wouldn't tell me i went on the summer of nineteen sixty nine when winter to try them and i've just concluded that they had some plants center nestled on the debate within that time when apple unveiled mean i have to find out if the pentagon decides that was classified evidence classified assessment was an fbi and so it's a plan to get the base impact on the area has been staggering with about forty thousand new people will be needing housing schools water sewer systems and other social services it's been a drastic change for one at the rural peaceful area

poured into the navy ninety two percent of the people live talk to like having a base nearby however they'll males writer for the seattle times sam there's a correlation really here between the chamber of commerce and the navy which is working very well for them and chambers of commerce in this area to work to promote of this project here and we'll gain from the chamber of commerce of people who sell goods and sell we sell loyal and who still whatever the chorus came from having a huge influx of people and so they are saying that it's going to bring prosperity and then we had the national defense mr william bayne is the former chairman of the puget sound chamber of commerce test for some dried basil can remember i just have to make a comment make a stand in a modern in behalf of the

program right number our mission is to get the facts and present them as we see them on the roadside and offset the housing construction and of course none of us or that i know that i've been working with are interested to disrupt the community a landscape wiser career anybody who also realize we're giving them in a navy town court were very friendly and we like them very very good for the community and i think they like to the aspect of there being a larger number of nuclear weapons of their own and in transit through their does not concern you're doing well it doesn't concern me as i have confidence in the people handling these things to take all the precautions necessary so they will notice of confidence may be concerned about time is a group of citizens who have been critical of dryden in general and

a possible lawsuits they were recently encouraged by a court decision that said the navy had to follow the environmental protection act to take a fresh look at its selection of the base and its long term environmental effect on the puget sound area the court however did not stop work on the days i spoke with mr amor president of the group how much money do you spend on the litigation your support it personally and then about eleven thousand dollars and that's a big chunk of though is it and that is worth it i think a person at the dewey thinks is right with his money and i think that both lawsuits allege supported and then well worthwhile would you accept the contract to do some of the work to try you know why because they dont believe him i dont believe that something that should be done over there

in your professional contractor in joe you're gonna have a basis a look at the profit i don't think i have tried to make a living and even if i did i wouldn't you got a depth of feeling about this which is made you learn some stuff about the weapons systems which you didn't initially know eye from which are saying where is it the feeling came from what singled you out or were from all that there are a lot of people that are against the tribe and also you have to realize that a lot of people feel it wants the decision has been made to go ahead with this and the wheels are in motion money has been no been obligated by the government decisions been made to go ahead that today you are really wasting your time trying to fight it and then it right

a grouper that were different approach to opposing driving is the pacific life community i intuitively and then went to the basic banker and in five separate occasions kept offense in an attempt to begin dismantling the basic point to cat on each occasion and twenty five two hundred fifteen feet of veterans who were first given growing lettuce been citations and we consider each act of resistance to the life affirming that actions involving property damage have to be explained in a way that we can lead people to an understanding that there is some property which is intrinsically illegitimate i would say the ovens at dachau appear that anyone who took the doors are open would be doing a service a positive service toward life i think

as in the case of the vietnam war that if i'm to communicate my real concern about the system and i have to communicate that by putting my life against it and that is we in our community are able to raise more and other people understand imams concern and begin to say why are these people so i have a community but i have to their young children one morning and meanwhile the important years for me to be with my children and for me personally to have a decision and for each of the women the women involved in this action mother's won a single dime for each of us it was a really important decision to take a risk that would separate this from my children going to jail going to jail in this case that the risk we face arrest action is why me a hundred thousand dollars for each of the two counts of destruction of property the church to take that risk if only because i think my children have no future

if that base is here at the congressional level that was one lone voice in the state of washington opposition to trade representative joel pritchard general you're the only member of the russian state delegation to vote against drug out of that company well i guess i wasn't satisfied the right program was the way they put it up for the best interest country and i had some serious questions so i voted against doing anything to do with pride and being located near interstate not really i think that if you think a program it's necessary for the security of the nation why i think then we have accepted that this is the best place for no i've posted on the basis that i thought we were going into a crash program we haven't completed the research and development and i had serious questions whether we would have been better off we had just repeated be seidman polaris with the new missiles they have great for

revelatory power one point sitting in the great lakes it's my understanding can destroy every russian city of a hundred thousand over i just think that there is that the timing is wrong and i wish congress had had been slower and that and given more thought oh we have to have sufficient see it in our defense structure and certainly the submarine is probably are the most effective or account for a weapon we have no question about that so when you take those two factors why of course it's very hard for i think for many people to stand up and question this program is hard drive this was the navy for why we first as to have a spokesman for dissipating the studio dialogue quote we regret that we must decline such discussion often results in debate unquote but after many weeks of phone calls and letters

persistence paid off and i went to the pentagon and was able to talk to rear admiral kennelly about the importance of without the trident submarine not only accommodate those long range missile that we've been we've incorporated all of the technology which we developed during the past twenty six years since mers was first designed sets that we have a much broader platform that is a much more difficult by for free any afp of the adversary to find and to neutralize and ice every warfare are we have well incorporated technologies such that we can spend longer periods it's a we have developed so within the trident system we have a missile to which can accommodate a larger vessel called should someday that be in the national interest to develop oh we have well primarily in our effort in

a sign that that i knew as a taxpayer interested in is to try to find the most cost effective combination of a sudden rain versus the number of missiles they carry and though you'd been criticized done with them really without foundation but we've been criticized at where too many missile launches on a submarine our cost effectiveness studies indicate that having twenty four missiles on the trident submarine alt is by far the most cost effective option than producing more submarines with lesser numbers of missile that currently the shipbuilding program is at the trial in shipbuilding program is is has an indefinite number of submarines final number will be a product of the deliberations in congress the considerations that we have in the department that fans will be a function of our success salt discussions

and negotiations and so they all would not be right for me to even file conjecture or speculate all that argument number and why they do the information given really say something and they say something that i can understand that i have not had the drug information and that includes are on a mission to set a record i've not making excuses for the navy but i think that the desire is there i think that for instance the trident program we try to be very forthright in your cards on the table on the base election the capabilities of the ship the capabilities of the missile and therefore we enjoy credibility and confidence in people however the pentagon is sharply scrutinized a group of defense analyst

and former high military officers in washington dc at the center for defense information what information do you put out to the public and how you did it well we use published sources there's a lot of information available but it takes a good deal of expertise to dig it out of congressional hearings have to get out a statement on the pentagon have learned to read between the lines a little and after having spent seven years the pentagon i can tell when they are assembling when they're distorting or when they're leaving things all this kind of the system could've been a state's sure that's a good system moving as you do need it we already have merriman enough in our players and foresight and submarines and are manned bombers and mr land based on cbs news and specifically iran we have to date over five thousand nuclear weapons in our submarine force the head of the

program in the navy at the kauffman was quoted a couple years ago saying that when that are current whose silent submarines just once every could destroy hundred and sixty soviet cities once every forty one strategic submarines so it makes no sense not going to get another ten or eleven pence actually open and it gets into bed and barkers try to program the navy initially came in and asked for one or two saying that one of the program of ten max now they said there were eleven and that just keeps it open ended yet again the public doesn't no news and being told i don't know why do we need and what is the extent of the program if we're going to talk to sen mcintyre the chairman of a key sub committee of the armed services committee i review a number of volumes of that

committee is hearing is just one volume and began to see how hard it is for anybody including the senator's to get all the information not only is her in a lot of information that a great deal of written in nonsensical wind village in front of me is a long discussion of something called unknown unknown which senator mcintyre points out is an improved term over one lever before uncle he went on a lot of humor in the hearings about trying to make things understandable and frequently as people just took them in plain language i asked the senator danielle of defense policy the simplistic i answer was so easy for the fellow on the street that i doubt the fantasy the fall of the local hot dog hot dog town all he says that time i want you to give us what we want to be strung with one the number three number three and thirty six but there's more to that than given and then they maybe the army and the airport every every damn

thing they want and they want everything listener questions need for better product in iraq so i hope so it really isn't a product within and i guess it is an affront to the back to tried and the argument that i had were trying on the one we took to the floor and one we almost prevailing in committee whether they want to build it too fast now a good product comes by being careful in going here as paste that is reasonable the navy at that time under blue thunder the push over the rail strong chief a naval operations and wenzel more it one of them put that summer and the trident i think the impact is it would be one the first year and then three three three ten of them was a lot of experience has been that when you're getting going that fast you have a rougher fit you cost ms thomas's taxpayer cost of millions sometimes billions of dollars to make up for your mistakes so we would like to build a

lot of debate i realized i was driving in the development of drug related use race in and the potential unlike a potential for bassoon trident submarine closer represents a very important part of our security system and i've always liked the year and the trident submarine as a weapon because it was a staple weapon and was a survivable web so it's about ability and stability make it a good weapon them probably the most popular weapon in our arsenal today deterrence is based upon one side's ability to inflict an acceptable damage and those are the words on the other side how much more than x amount of missiles do media need to do a killer but it toys to have the terms for three tunes well we would do that i would say that on the floor of the senate

if that question was up the majority would vote to kill him three times more and they won't do that because they need to the only go because they don't own the stand the whole complexity of the defense problem anymore than citizens in the senate today in the house today there are only a few senators and congressmen who sit and live with defense posture and god knows where no expert the middle of the senate is concerned with the commerce committee the family says khamenei the agriculture committee is no time for a center of commerce in to become a multifaceted expert he has to rely on the committee that that is billed for managing the bill and if you look at the composition of the savvy you look at the composition of the senate armed services committee look at the composition of the obvious defense subcommittee year on appropriations you find that by allies are very conservative free chapel conservative those senators and congressmen who were on

balance say tom we must be number one at all costs and regardless of whether the intricacies are understood by all about god you won't believe this they'll believe we should ask the military any questions just be missing a lot of the elders so i'm driving a roman right there are some say don't you say we need three thousand tanks and we have four thousand the tribal interestingly on the trident was an eight to seven vote in my favor and committee remember that abba like all emotional when he heard that well with a descendant of what he thought was against a submarine which was only a celebration of construction you're on the phone you from my good friend and a great service on the goldwater william california someplace line some plain that he loved to fly and the drama happens on the goal i set my proxy was word incorrectly

and i go what you saw someday we'll have a good voice i've tried every year to call every member of congress i got most of them senator goldwater was initially reported or voted against the fishing boat in the pacific theater for a proxy contest inaccurate and the thing that really interested me about the discussions and the media coverage of the phone systems is that when you're sick fewer doctor you know check his advice with your banker yeah very they are expert in military weapons system i think we could afford much more narrowly to take the advice of our the specific systems and to have congress and the general

guidelines as to the general mixing now not to get in the family that i don't think it's possible for lennon ever to be en masse about weapon systems and morning in a particular view you've been very close to the presidency in this country and you've seen the decision making process happen how come the information really hasn't gotten out as far as i can see as i'm learning about this as well partly as you were probably learning is because a lot of people on last year learning a lot by asking there is perhaps a defense mystique in this country now the pentagon talked to are people from the pentagon and the navy talk to about these decisions as a warm up is all the subject of very careful congressional hearings and your representatives in congress

are those were on the defense search committees and so forth are are investigating this and they hold hearings and so on that to my mind i would say that there's been almost and in the case of the trident almost an inverse ratio between the enormity of the project and they possibly the tiny public discussion of the project it had to withhold information on it and i'm not a great believer in the conspiracy theory history or the devil very sure i suppose down and somebody must have said well the last week talk about it may be the better nominee i don't think there's been any any attempt to purposely bamboozled a public and the public has not to exercise that right to know and i don't think that the pentagon and

the navy have so was being facilitated that right on the exercise of that right what are the pros and cons of drive is it's a resort where dinosaur driving can spend up to seventy percent of its time it's a marked improvement over the present lawyers aside and played it is also more easily repairable this is undisputed a main argument use unfair or trident is that it will be significantly whiter than the existing fleet however the general accounting office report there is substantial risk that the quietness goals may not be achieved but triton one missile will have twice the range of the boys decide missiles however have tried one missile doesn't need the drug and so it can be used on poseidon's of mines a key reason given for the dryden system was the six thousand mile range of the planned trident two missile which requires the loggers up but there's no design program present for this missile

five is designed makes it the cost effective way to go with twenty four missiles burst of yourselves a requirement only one bases need to serve them yes more so were the same features that have been built costing less also the final number of dryden says to love them and that and having one base increases the vulnerability of the system dryden as a hedge against a soviet breakthrough an anti submarine warfare but there's no is the mere threat of president and experts say there's no chance the foreseeable future if there's a breakthrough size could make it more vulnerable than others finally a crucial reason for driving is that that was a sudden plea will be obsolete in a few years however several experts dispute this block obsolescence very the west poseidon flee we asked what authority dr herbert scoville it be a great win this argument no i don't agree with the navy's own testimony that the

curse of the navy secretary of defense is proposing to use those same virus the marines well into the nineteen nineties the not face them out and use those same submarines but they're now going to put crews missiles on them when they have more than the nail out to have a ballistic missile this is proof that the navy doesn't think the second thing they proposed is silly they did say one thing in one place an ordinary person make judgments about what kind of weapons systems whether or not we should have a weapon systems and so i think that there's plenty of information that potentially it would be made public and which the public and so the technical details really are what they need most cases the technical detail those are shrouded in secrecy because they want to confuse people and make the public think that they

can't pick this is there's some very fundamental things about solutions and weapons which can be made without detail well for example in the end the tribe case it's not doesn't require technical knowledge knowledge you have point for missiles and seventy because one point eight million dollars apiece <unk> have smaller number of submarines in your free than if you have only sixteen missiles and each one morning cause of bell thank you but triton has a very poor solution to it on the existing very good clients and decide which we now have at the university of washington i joke with dr holmes bader who has a unique view on the nuclear age he had the radical division of los alamos were reduced fat man the first atomic

bomb is it possible for an ordinary citizen to understand the implications of something like a trident certainly it's not difficult to understand you don't need to be a bit to design the submarine author behind the new power weapon to understand what the effects of such a weapon will be did you see the first for an explosion i mean it was quite overwhelming the distant observation post twenty miles from the explosion it clearly was waning we're to par with some sense of achievement and also some sense of pol pot this would do with a word do you have any hopes for it the acceleration of the arms race here said you have such hopes that would like not only to be solely the outskirts are two

innocent i see no reason why the united states and her wash each have seven thousand nurses i think a few hundred meters would be completely safe for each of us you know that the commander of each trident submarine there's going to be the third most powerful man in the world first milk powder present united states the second most powerful one is the head of the solicitor general soviet communist party the commander of the trident submarine is going to be the third most powerful man he's gonna be able to wipe out any country on her he's going to have much greater nuclear capability that i voted button flansburg china so much strength in anybody's band canadians are getting awful mad not sad about this they are in fact you know they weren't consulted

about putting its own year for the third largest population center in canada they weren't consulted of all it's truly you're doing it on your own character that you're bringing this the canadians have an idea know that there is a campaign going in british columbia and western canada to get the canadian government the protest of the american government on the grounds of no incineration without representation this whole nuclear arms race is that race to oblivion wait up bebop wake up washington we live in a very frightening world at times the worst thing you can do is to give way to the fear and the anxiety and say we're just gonna have to give up on this sentiment and try to make believe it's not out there armed but we're still pretty much ahead of them in the importance and technology and accurate but as mr barry was pointing out in his talk today they are catching up in a very

impressive rate and unless we start the story of ourselves in and maintaining our lead we can't have two is selling arms leon's arsenals in the world i think most would start going out people started feeling safer now diminished do that i'm not sure we've been at it for some centuries and haven't come up with particularly good ideas really good ideas but it's been hard to put them into practice i'm not sure i see happening so frankly i don't see the world becoming a peaceful happy united place very rapidly it but mostly the chords being prepared the role of pride and i would say is a critical part of what is called a fire and it's more important than a b one bomber as an honest credible an effective deterrent i think the real danger in that terrible unthinkable wary of a nuclear holocaust movie by terrorists i hate to say that but girl we've got madmen in the world and we need to get

into the question of nuclear proliferation as much as we need to consider the reduction of strategic arms but the key is whether the russians really mean it does is are they willing to build now i just feel that we ought to be pushing his house we can to come to some agreement and i think that's where your citizenship could be felt come to look we have a man who would just as modern generals were just as able as our russian counterparts will be will feel them and they feel that if i yield to get them in the field a field as in juxtaposition to the soviets and hammer away and how away until reason predominates and we get a de escalation on what i do who seem pretty hiroshima and i saw it only you know the muscles and the nuclear warhead that would talk about now is probably seventy five times greater on that mission of four thousand three thousand miles to accuracy of of the tide but just described and that of course is not true agassi zero that's what it seemed to me the country

and when they get that i have i get time and time again the fullest and now you have a hair trigger a nuclear confrontation our eye and the way to pay

this program was made possible in part by a grant from the washington commission for the humanities casey yes