The Young Musician; William Masselos; WNYC

<v [Host]>It's time now for another broadcast of the young musician. <v [Host]>These programs explore new ideas and concepts in music education, introduce <v [Host]>new works into the repertoire and offer fresh insights into established compositions. <v [Host]>Our host for the series is Sahan Arzruni, pianist, <v [Host]>composer and music educator. <v [Host]>Mr. Arzruni: <v Sahan Arzruni>Today, I have the extreme pleasure of having world renowned pianist William Masselos as <v Sahan Arzruni>my guest. Well, I don't have to tell you how excited I am <v Sahan Arzruni>and... <v William Masselos>Thank you Sahan. It's my pleasure to be here. But world renowned anyway. <v William Masselos>It sounds lovely. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes, you are. No question about it. <v Sahan Arzruni>But would you terribly mind if we started with music? <v William Masselos>No. Good. Good. <v Sahan Arzruni>Then we'll talk about it. <v William Masselos>Yeah. Sometimes one plays better than one speaks. <v William Masselos> <v Sahan Arzruni>We are going to play the Dvorak Slavonik Dances This is this is <v Sahan Arzruni>the number 4 from Opus 46. <v William Masselos>Do we let the audience in as to how much we've rehearsed this?

<v Sahan Arzruni>No, no. <v Speaker>[Both laugh] <v Speaker>[Masselos plays Slavonic Dances, Op. 46] <v Sahan Arzruni>Mr. Masselos, I think one of the many extraordinary qualities that makes you such a

<v Sahan Arzruni>great artist is your tone production. What are the <v Sahan Arzruni>ingredients that go into making such a gorgeous sound? <v Sahan Arzruni>Is it possible for you to isolate the physical elements and talk <v Sahan Arzruni>about them? <v William Masselos>Sahan. <v William Masselos>[clears throat] Uh, now, if I would be verbalizing on all of this in general, <v William Masselos>uh, you know that I stay away from from lecturing from master classes, <v William Masselos>from that of course, in a one to one relationship with my students, I stumble, stutter <v William Masselos>and finally get them to to understand a little bit of what I want. <v William Masselos>Uh, well, it comes to me like about arm weight. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes. Yes. Where does that weight come from? <v Sahan Arzruni>Does it come from the arm? From the elbow, from the fingertip? <v Sahan Arzruni>Are there specific qualifications to the hand, for example, I notice your hands <v Sahan Arzruni>are very plump and uh useful and some pianists have very scrawny hands. <v Sahan Arzruni>Do those things make it... <v William Masselos>Yeah. Well, well. You mean I have a carpenter's hand. <v William Masselos>With a low-set monkey thumb? [Arzuni laughs]. Uh, no, well, I -

<v William Masselos>what comes to me now is is I think we should always investigate. <v William Masselos>Get to know our arms, hands, fingers, the various kinds of <v William Masselos>combinations that are possible. <v William Masselos>Uh, using the wrist, using the forearm, leaning in, leaning- put-pulling <v William Masselos>out. One might uh move in on a note, <v William Masselos>uh, using the piano as a floor. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes. <v William Masselos>Uh, uh, for for uh walking, running, <v William Masselos>skipping. Well, this may be part of the legato thing. <v William Masselos>The sound. So that when it's comfortable on wandering around <v William Masselos>on this floor, it's- it's about uh <v William Masselos>thinking, I guess, in terms of a larger movement that may already start above the <v William Masselos>keyboard. And then and then descend. <v William Masselos>Mr. Freedberg said something in his book, but I don't have it right here about how he <v William Masselos>said he remembered Brahms playing.

<v Sahan Arzruni>Oh. <v William Masselos>Uh, maybe if you give me a minute, I can look it up. <v Sahan Arzruni>Okay. <v William Masselos>This is a book by and by Julius Smith <v William Masselos>on Carl Freedberg, who was my my teacher <v William Masselos>at the time. Well, since I was twelve and a half until I was <v William Masselos>twenty three. But anyway, he said <v William Masselos>um that that Brahms suggested that the chords be formed in the air. <v William Masselos>This is about Brahms' sound according to what Freedberg remembered, <v William Masselos>and that Brahms had said that he disregarded that the percussive <v William Masselos>party of the piano in favor of molding and meeting phrases so that the music sounded <v William Masselos>as though invoked from the instrument and not punched her. <v William Masselos>Banged. And according to him, Brown's playing, he says, gave an impression <v William Masselos>of great inner power, was very free with expansive full arm movements, <v William Masselos>uh, and and was able to achieve a marvelous arm legato in octave <v William Masselos>passages in play.

<v Sahan Arzruni>Mmm. <v William Masselos>Of course, that it created a sense of bowing is on a cello. <v William Masselos>Now, now, he suggested, Freedberg did to us, I remember, that <v William Masselos>to bring down the hands. Um, he suggests that the cords <v William Masselos>be formed in the air. <v Sahan Arzruni>What- what is it in the air? <v William Masselos>In the air, well, above- above that, you know what? <v William Masselos>You're coming for a form a paw - <v William Masselos>So you've got a paw there. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yeah. <v William Masselos>And it's the shape of the chord. And that you begin already in the air to think of what's <v William Masselos>ahead. And then you bring down the hands. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes. <v William Masselos>As if pressing against a cushion. <v William Masselos>You can imagine that when it's making a crescendo before striking the keys. <v William Masselos>Now that this is another way of saying, I guess, depress the key <v William Masselos>somewhat devotedly. <v William Masselos>And, hah, of course, it depends on the musical content of the <v William Masselos>sound one wants. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes. But once you have hit the note, what happens? <v Sahan Arzruni>Can you do anything afterwards? <v William Masselos>I I'd like to think that when.

<v Sahan Arzruni>It's something you... <v William Masselos>Hand because I like to give credit to the imagination, I want to give leeway <v William Masselos>to the imagination, because our imagination is fabulous. <v Sahan Arzruni>Mhm. <v William Masselos>And it can it can, I think, even change <v William Masselos>the sound of the imagination. Wanted to contact the piano <v William Masselos>on an inner level, maybe talk the piano into doing what it wanted. <v Sahan Arzruni>Well, it is interesting to talk about single notes <v Sahan Arzruni>and how they can sound different. <v Sahan Arzruni>But I think uh, the- the greatest quality an artist <v Sahan Arzruni>may have comes in playing a phrase. <v William Masselos>Yeah. Yeah. <v Sahan Arzruni>It's not terribly important how beautiful one single tone is. <v William Masselos>No, no, the phrase... <v Sahan Arzruni>It's how you shape that phrase. <v William Masselos>Yeah. And- and... <v Sahan Arzruni>And that's- that's what tone production is actually. <v Speaker>Whereas if you if you don't if you can manage to sometimes forget bar <v Speaker>lines, Freedberg would say a phrase should be, uh, <v Speaker>sung. And if you if you do it slower than you can sing it, then again it dies.

<v Speaker>There are many things also accompaniment figures. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes. <v William Masselos>Can- can make the illusion of marvelous <v William Masselos>uh, um, swelling in the tone, which... <v Sahan Arzruni>Of course... <v William Masselos>After its played... <v Sahan Arzruni>With sympathetic vibrations, also. <v William Masselos>Oh, could be, never thought of it. <v William Masselos>Yeah. [Masselos chuckles.] <v Sahan Arzruni>You know, how about the emotional elements? <v Sahan Arzruni>There are physical elements? Okay. We understand, you know, the pressure of the arm, the <v Sahan Arzruni>weight and all that and the use of pedals, fine... <v William Masselos>Well, yeah. But the emotional thing... <v Sahan Arzruni>The most important is the emotional communication. <v William Masselos>Yeah, well that's that's where I say. <v William Masselos>I I I'm not quite quite sure how to say this. <v William Masselos>Let's say a Rudhyar, a Dane Rudhyar who is a philosopher might say <v William Masselos>music must do something to you... <v Sahan Arzruni>Mhm. <v William Masselos>Something vital, tonifying, magical. <v William Masselos>This is from one of his writings by the way. <v William Masselos>And he says the score is futile in itself. <v William Masselos>I may agree with that, but not completely. <v William Masselos>In other words, he says the music is not meant to be pleasurable, soothing

<v William Masselos>us away from the tragedy of life, but to exalt life in those <v William Masselos>who live. So this is, again, all about the the emotional - <v Sahan Arzruni>Content -. <v William Masselos>Content which- which the composer put in there and which we then, <v William Masselos>I guess, modify, add to, amplify with our <v William Masselos>with our own inner inner knowing and consciousness - <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes, yes. <v William Masselos>And experience. <v Sahan Arzruni>That statement is, of course, very true. <v Sahan Arzruni>However, there is one thing that I'm not quite sure that music is not necessarily <v Sahan Arzruni>pleasurable. <v William Masselos>Uh, well, I guess he was just uh taking a very extreme stand because <v William Masselos>uhh it's like Ives. Didn't he say? <v William Masselos>Sound, uh, is not - music is not sound. <v William Masselos>In other words, don't strive for beautiful sound first, but strive for music. <v Sahan Arzruni>Music, I see. <v William Masselos>And if it happens to be beautiful, okay. <v William Masselos>I think they're thinking in terms of very profound.

<v Sahan Arzruni> ?inaudible? <v William Masselos>Yeah. Yeah. And and... <v Sahan Arzruni>I don't know, for me, the music gives such incredible pleasure. <v Sahan Arzruni>Not only, you know, spiritual pleasure, but almost bodily pleasure, doesn't it? <v William Masselos>You mean, you'd like to play Chopin. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes. That's something... <v William Masselos>You'd like to hear Richter play Chopin. <v Sahan Arzruni>Well, I'm not quite sure about playing Chopin... <v William Masselos>Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've you've you've said it delights you in a very, very special <v William Masselos>way. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes. <v William Masselos>You get sent off on cloud nine something. <v William Masselos>[Laughs]. <v Sahan Arzruni>But before we go to cloud nine, can we get down and play some more music? <v Sahan Arzruni>[Laughs] <v William Masselos>Yeah. All right. Fine. <v Sahan Arzruni>Mr. Masselos, do you find a difference in your

<v Sahan Arzruni>playing when you are playing on stage and when you're playing at home? <v Sahan Arzruni>Does the audience do something to you? <v Sahan Arzruni>Is playing on stage a totally different experience? <v William Masselos>I think you can answer that as well. <v William Masselos>It's it's never the same, is it? Depends how much return of your own sound you get <v William Masselos>on the stage. But moral support you hear from yourself. <v William Masselos>It may be that everything goes out and you're so disappointed because you don't hear <v William Masselos>anything. But maybe it all remains on the stage and you're delighted and the audience <v William Masselos>doesn't even know they're present. Acoustics, piano... <v William Masselos>but I actually we probably practice after a certain stage. <v William Masselos>We practice something in- with- keeping in mind the fact <v William Masselos>that we're eventually going to do it in a big space, in a big hall. <v William Masselos>So then then we we try to project the present into the future and make the future <v William Masselos>happen now. And so we pretend <v William Masselos>and we then immediately I find my ears listening in a much bigger space, even though I'm

<v William Masselos>still sitting in my own room. <v Sahan Arzruni>Right. <v William Masselos>I could take one, one one then then <v William Masselos>listens through other people's ears in one's own studio. <v William Masselos>But thinking in terms of what's going to happen on the stage and so that you're not quite <v William Masselos>as shocked, uh. <v Sahan Arzruni>Then you are - <v William Masselos>What? <v Sahan Arzruni>Preparing yourself. <v William Masselos>Preparing yourself, then you you move the present into the future. <v William Masselos>The future becomes sort of like the past, because when you are playing, <v William Masselos>then you've already in your imagination done it before. <v William Masselos>And then you'll find nothing of it works. [Both laugh] <v William Masselos>You have to well... <v William Masselos>[Both laugh] You know all this. <v William Masselos>But also something that is so uh, a beautiful factor is when <v William Masselos>you have an audience that loves you. [Both laugh]. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes! <v William Masselos>And then you feed on this. <v William Masselos>And because the atmosphere is permeated with uh, with helpful <v William Masselos>thoughts, it seems, are strengthening ones or encouraging ones. <v William Masselos>And every tone rings more beautifully because of uh, <v William Masselos>this. [Masselos chuckes]

<v Sahan Arzruni>You try to establish some sort of communication right away, don't you? <v Sahan Arzruni>I mean, that is... <v William Masselos>Yeah, we, well, no, we're not - we're sharing our <v William Masselos>our music. <v Sahan Arzruni>It's not a private affair, is it? <v William Masselos>No, it's not a private affair with uh, it's it's - <v Sahan Arzruni>I mean, you know. <v William Masselos>Yeah, yeah. <v Sahan Arzruni>You are trying to find maybe a spiritual or intellectual or <v Sahan Arzruni>emotional interchange, if you will, with <v Sahan Arzruni>the audience. <v William Masselos>Yeah, right. I don't know whether, uh, yeah. <v Sahan Arzruni>You're going to quote? [Arzruni laughs] <v William Masselos>I'm gonna quote somebody else. But this is very high falutin. <v William Masselos>It's the noblest function of art. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes. <v William Masselos>This is Raymond Drake. <v William Masselos>Which is to seek illumination in portraying the wonders of God. <v William Masselos>Well, after all... <v Sahan Arzruni>It's almost metaphysical. <v William Masselos>We're a physical trying to make life a little more beautiful <v William Masselos>in our our our art. <v William Masselos>We're just portraying the wonders of what we're- we might imagine, <v William Masselos>is in it, for in a higher state. <v William Masselos>So then therefore, we're not gonna do it just for ourselves, because particularly

<v William Masselos>fellows, I think we want to show off a little bit, too. <v Speaker>[Both laugh] <v William Masselos>That's how we want it. <v William Masselos>And I don't know why I say that. <v Sahan Arzruni>But it's true. <v William Masselos>So we want it to show that maybe we have deeper feelings or more <v William Masselos>fun feelings. And this can come through in that. <v William Masselos>And of course, we play to an audience, uh, not always the first row, <v William Masselos>but maybe, maybe a few specific people in the audience. <v Sahan Arzruni>But- but isn't there a huge affair going on between the pianist and the audience? <v William Masselos>You mean a love affair? <v Sahan Arzruni>Mmm. <v William Masselos>Yeah. <v Sahan Arzruni>I mean, the whole seduction scene going on... <v William Masselos>Love all over the place. And there the pianist is wooing the piano, and <v William Masselos>with that you woo the audience. And they in turn sit there and probably... <v William Masselos>[Masselos chuckes] So I, um, <v William Masselos>yes. It's about life. <v William Masselos>So therefore I remember Freedberg and ?inaudible? <v William Masselos>would say, don't only play musically because just to play musically

<v William Masselos>is fine. But remember, music is about life, okay? <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes. <v William Masselos>Gestures are are also what one does with hands, I think, and face <v William Masselos>is almost more telling of the the inner- inner man. <v William Masselos>And then actions, words. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yes. <v William Masselos>Because they're- they're not- we don't think them out so much. <v William Masselos>It just happens. <v Sahan Arzruni>Yeah. <v William Masselos>And then so it reveals that more of the insights... <v Sahan Arzruni>Mr. Masselos, it was a very great honor and a privilege to have you. <v William Masselos>Arzruni, sir. <v Sahan Arzruni>It was, uh- <v William Masselos>I- I thank you, but the only thing is... <v Sahan Arzruni>I don't dare to ask you to come back. <v William Masselos>Well, I was going to ask you, if we might? <v Speaker>[Both laugh] <v William Masselos>Thank you. I've enjoyed this. <v Sahan Arzruni>Well, it was a great privilege. <v Sahan Arzruni>This is Sahan Arzruni. So long. <v [Host]>Thank you, Mr. Arzruni. <v [Host]>We welcome your comments on tonight's program and suggestions for a future broadcast. <v [Host]>Write to The Young Musician. WNYC, New York, New York, 10007.

<v [Host]>And be with us again next Monday evening at 8:30 for another broadcast of The <v [Host]>Young Musician.