On the Line; No. 4; Kids & Prejudice Pt. 4: Improving Relations in schools; Pt. 4

And it is time now for part four of our five-part series, Kids and Prejudice. Today's topic, Teaching Unity. It's a new era at the Board of Education. For the first time since the city developed the mostly black and Hispanic student body, the school board somewhat reflects the ethnic makeup of the kids. The new board has made the multicultural curriculum a centerpiece of its program for improving the schools. The hope is that teaching about the many cultures of the city will promote understanding among all groups in the schools and improve the self-esteem of some students who might otherwise fail. This hour, we will talk about the responsibility of school officials in minimizing prejudice. We begin with this report from WNYC's Don Matheson. Kids learn prejudice, they are not born with hate in their hearts. This is a group of students from I.S. 70 in the Chelsea section of Manhattan learning about human differences and how to resolve conflict that arises as a result of those differences. A guiding force behind this educational effort is Linda Lanteri, coordinator of the resolving

conflict creatively program. Lanteri says conflict is a natural part of life, with a key being how one responds. The program teaches non-violent alternatives. They are ways of telling people what you're feeling instead of verbally abusing them, actively listening, taking the time to find solutions that we call win-win solutions where people are able to negotiate their needs and come to a solution that both people feel good about. Specialized training can make a difference. Lanteri cites an example of reducing brawls in a high school cafeteria. We visited the school before the mediation program began and just began to look at five minutes of a particular lunch hour and saw that within a five minute period approximately 11 small but physical fights broke out, pushing, shoving this sort of thing. You would visit the school now and probably see no physical violence.

Lanteri adds, if a fight was to break out, student mediators would likely intervene. This year 1,000 teachers and 30,000 students will get this special training. Filmmaker Tony Denano produced a video called A Fistful of Words about the resolving conflict creatively program. In this excerpt, kids talk about arbitrating disputes. A mediator is a person who solves fights. Like if somebody's have a fight over like a little simple thing, then they start having like a big fight and argument, pushing each other and stuff. In a role playing exercise, students arbitrate a conflict over a toy. Those Chancellor Joseph Fernandez maintains support for programs like this one.

There are several conflict management programs that you know we're looking at. We obviously have to expand them. It's very critical to tie up on the list, but so is class size and so is math and science, but they're old. What we have to do is infuse it throughout the entire curriculum. My father's white and my mother's black, both of them were born in Dominican Republic. I was born in China and then I came here like when I was six years old. And such a diverse population as New York City, finding gentle ways to settle conflicts avoiding bulldozing can be difficult. But according to Linda Lanteri, learning conflict resolution while still in school could just be the city's best hope. I'm Don Matheson, WNYC News. I'm Brian Lehrer here on the line and my three guests this hour are Linda Lanteri, co-ordinator of the Resolve and Conflict Creatively Program in the city schools. Dr. Luis Reyes, a new member of the Board of Education appointed this summer by Manhattan Burr President Ruth Messinger and Philip Motte, co-ordinator of Student Affairs at Murray

Birch from High School in Lower Manhattan. Good morning to all of you. Thank you for coming in. Dr. Reyes, let me begin with you and first of all, congratulations on your appointment to the Board of Ed. What does the new ethnic makeup of the board mean to you? How will that help turn things around in the schools in terms of educational achievement and in terms of fighting violence and prejudice? Good morning. I think having a board made up of seven people, four of whom are from communities of color, two African-American women, professionals and two Puerto Rican professionals who also have backgrounds in advocacy, have community grassroots experience and experience and commitments means that the board reflects not just the population demographically, but that there is a politics of inclusion and therefore a policy that's going to be made by this boy in the direction it gives to the Chancellor and his administration will be

one that practices what we preach and hopefully acts as role models to students. And we'll get into some of that as we go along. We still have nothing approaching an ethnic match in the schools between teachers and students. How important do you think that is in terms of prejudice and in terms of achievement? Well, I like to think that the importance of cultural pluralism, a respect, understanding of diversity is crucial to the learning process, not just in terms of role models, but the sense that justice, equity are being played out both in the curriculum and instruction in terms of learning about different cultures, but also in understanding that the history of different groups and their contributions to American society, to world society have involved great struggle, dealing with oppression, whether it's racism, homophobia, sexism, imperialism, colonialism, and these experiences have to be a part and parcel of what goes

on in the instruction of students and in their engagement with teachers and not just for the purpose of filling their heads but for them becoming critical thinkers about their reality. Linda Lanteria, what's your view on that? What's the connection between prejudice, be it from students or teachers or curriculum and academic achievement? Well, I think there's a very strong connection, as Luis has mentioned, we're dealing with a society where young people in our schools especially are experiencing racism and sexism and a variety of isms at lots of levels. As a result, we come into a classroom and this is experienced as well, hopefully soon the curriculum will be more reflective of a curriculum of inclusion. This is the direction we're going in, but I think young people face this all the time living in our society and growing up in this society.

How much prejudice do you think the students are subject to at school, either from teachers or students or wherever? Can we quantify this at all? Is this a central problem to the functioning of the school system? I'm not sure we could quantify it, but since we are reflective of the society in which we live, which I feel is in deep trouble in terms of these issues, I think the school reflects that society. Many young people, when asked about incidences of prejudice and discrimination, often cite particular experiences that have occurred to them in schools where they begin to have social interaction with people other than themselves. And so very often, that's the first time young people might face a really deep experience of prejudice and discrimination. How much can the schools do to counter what kids get at home or on the streets in terms of prejudice?

Can the schools turn it around in large measure? Is it the school's responsibility? I think it's all of our responsibility. The first educator of children is always the home. And we, in the school system, support that in all ways we can and we can be a very deep strong intervention in that process. I feel like what we're talking about today, the issues we're talking about are multifaceted. The solutions have to be the same. But we are in the schools and so therefore, one of the things that I'm committed to do is to make that solution happen as much as possible in the educational realm. To the extent that the culture of the home and the community that children come from is not reflected in the school in terms of its policies relating to communities, relating to different ethnic groups in instruction, the schools have not done their job. So to say, to deal with the problems that children bring from their homes, maybe the

wrong end to come at, how has the school curriculum and the school policies reflected in acceptance and understanding and a sensitivity about what children bring from their own ethnic background. And in the sense you're saying that the curriculum has in the past compounded the problem. It's not just curriculum. It's whether or not African-American, Latino, Asian and different white groups among professionals are appropriately represented in decision making and instructional areas and whether or not their interaction is a positive one or their attitudes such that students get the impression and the experience from their teachers and from the adults that they get along and that they treat each other justly. Philip, what's your perspective on that? How much can the schools do? How much can you do in Murray-Bertchham High School to fight the prejudice that kids either bring in the door with them or get in these other ways that Dr. Reyes was talking

about? There are many things that can be done. Certainly there are some things that are in place in many schools to make this happen. But I agree with Dr. Reyes. I am amazed when I meet my students on the first day of school and many of them on the high school level continue to tell me that I am the first African-American English teacher they have ever had in their entire school career. Certainly, that says to me that there is something wrong with the policy, with the decision making in terms of personnel and faculty in our school system. And if indeed these young people are going to begin to feel good about themselves and feel their importance in this society, they need to get a mirror image. They need to have more persons on the faculty level, the administration level that they can identify with. And to some degree this has to go beyond just recruitment by the Board of Education because even people at the Board say part of the problem is finding the people, finding the applicants.

I disagree. I don't think is that difficult to find the applicants. There are several people that I know personally who want to be in the school system, but because of bureaucracy they have not been able to be placed. And we need to find a better way to get people on board and into the classrooms. You work with the Martin Luther King Jr. Institute to get students steeped in multicultural understanding and non-violence. Tell us about your program. It's the Martin Luther King Commission, which is chaired by Harry Belafonte and co-chaired by Clee Robinson of District 65. It was signed into law by Maria Cuomo back in 1986 when the King Holiday became a national holiday for this country. And what we have been doing is finding students in the school system and sponsoring them to travel to Atlanta, Georgia in the summertime to participate in the King's Center's summer workshop on non-violence.

They get the opportunity to work with students from around the country and from abroad to begin to meet people who are different from themselves and learn something about these people. The King's Center offers the young students an alternative to solving problems. But they deal with the principle of love, of agape love, and if young people can begin to understand that they must love one another and love themselves, then they can appreciate their difference. Give us an idea of a typical day in that program. Who will the students be and what will they be doing? This past summer, which is the second annual youth workshop, the King's Center has had 15 summers of this program, but the young people are coming in such large numbers that they had to have a separate youth workshop. They come from all over the state of New York, Hispanics, Asians, African-Americans, young women and young ladies who meet with other students, their same age group from around the country.

They get a chance to speak to Mrs. Coretta Scott King and Jesse Jackson and people who deal with the homeless situation who are in leadership to that end. They get to dialogue with these people. And then they discuss issues and problems that are particular to them as young people. They take the leadership and they discuss what the problems are. They've met with gang members and that's a problem throughout the inner cities in this country. And they tried to take the leadership for themselves to solve these problems. All right. We're going to take a short break then. We'll come back and keep talking about teaching unity, cutting down on prejudice in the New York City schools. This is on the line on AMA20, stay with us. This is part four of our five part series, Kids and Pregidists. Today's topic is teaching unity, efforts to wipe out prejudice in the New York City public

schools. And my guests are Dr. Luis Reyes, a member of the Board of Education. Linda Lantieri, coordinator of the Resolve and Conflict, creatively program of the city schools. And Philip Mott, coordinator of student affairs at Murray Bertram High School in Lower Manhattan. And Ms. Lantieri, tell us a little bit about your program. We heard a short piece of you in action with the kids in the opening segment. But the Resolve and Conflict's creatively program is what it's called. And how does this tie in to intercultural understanding, male, female understanding, gay straight understanding? The Resolve and Conflict creatively program began about five years ago as a collaborative effort between educators for social responsibility, which is a nonprofit organization devoted to work in this area. And the central offices of the Board of Ed, and at that time, Community School District 15 in Brooklyn. We began slowly and deeply because we were beginning to embark on an area of teaching young people skills in conflict resolution and intergroup relations.

And we knew that this work needed to take time, and we needed to really see how to do it well. We're beginning to see some wonderful changes in both teachers, administrators, parents, and students as they begin to, as Philip said, learn another way to begin to approach the conflict and violence they're seeing around them. Give us an idea of what goes on in your program during a given conflict. Give me a specific example of a conflict that was dealt with through your conflict resolution program. Well, part of what happens is that teachers are trained to begin to implement a curriculum in the classroom. And so if this were a typical classroom where the Resolve and Conflict creatively program was happening, young people in that room would begin to have skills that probably other kids in our school system don't have yet, skills in active listening, skills in negotiation and mediation in seeing somebody's other point of view in what Luis talked about at the

beginning with critical thinking. And so all of this would come into play in terms of a possible conflict that might arise in that classroom. And you would probably see young people freely using those skills to resolve that conflict in a more nonviolent and creative way. Dr. Reyes, let's talk about the multicultural curriculum a little more people here. The term multicultural curriculum a lot, but I think very few people know what it actually consists of. I know the whole program isn't designed yet, but can you give me some of the core elements? Well, first of all, multicultural education, that curriculum values cultural pluralism. Rejects the view that schools should seek to melt away cultural differences or merely tolerate diversity. So a truly multicultural education accepts diversity, understands it, learns about it, and uses it as a valuable resource to be preserved. The curriculum is a guide for what goes on in the classroom in terms of instruction and

interaction, but the curriculum multicultural education has to be infused in social studies curriculum, American history, world history, global history, but also in art, music, science, math in terms of understanding of concepts and how different groups have contributed to the, whether it's mathematical concepts, art, music, and multicultural education also deals with understanding about the heritages of different young people in the schools, but their own cultural group has contributed what their struggles have been and the outcomes of those struggles. It's a sense of self-respect. It's an understanding about racism. It deals with human rights throughout the world. The rights that children have, that adults have, that people who are different from us have, how are those rights accomplished? How are

they not being accomplished? What needs to be done? Can you give me a specific example of how something has been taught in the past and how it might be taught differently under this approach? Well, for example, in the, from a Latino perspective, the syllabus and instruction distorts the reality of Puerto Rican children, people think that Latinos in general have come late to the American experience, whereas the first settlements in, of colonists and explorers to, to North America were done by the Spaniards and that in terms of Puerto Ricans that there have been here, we have been here for a hundred years, we have had communities in New York City. We didn't come in 1950 and that we are citizens. The, the school curricula really do not teach about the experience of Puerto Ricans here in New York when we have, what little

we have maybe about the Taino Indians on the island of Puerto Rico. There is a, a great global issue about the status of Puerto Rico that needs a historical context for children to understand. Commonwealth, Puerto Rico is a Commonwealth, Puerto Rico has a 51st state, Puerto Rico is an independent country, unless they understand the history of Puerto Rico and its relationship to the United States as a calendar. Then they can't really think about that issue. They really are going to be ignorant as to the choices and the implications of those choices. Mr. Mott, how do you expect the multicultural curriculum or the multicultural education approach to change things in Murray, Bertram High? I, I honestly feel that will help students to, to appreciate education and to appreciate themselves as a participant in education. A lot of students feel that this, this thing we call education is really not for them. We, we put it up in front of them, but we do

not pull them into it. And I think it will help them to feel a part of it as opposed to someone who is just being allowed to be exposed to this, that they have actually made contributions and they have a legacy in, in this. So you do see a connection then between academic performance and the multicultural educational approach as opposed to, it's simply being a justice issue to correct distortions and, and that sort of thing. That was definitely. Yeah, yeah, interesting. All right, we have to take a break right now for the news and I want to invite our listeners to call in. We are talking about teaching unity. We are talking about reducing prejudice in the New York City public schools at all levels from the top on paper among the students and my guests are Luis Reyes, member of the Board of Education, Dr. Luis Reyes, also Linda Lantieri, coordinator of the Resolven Conflict Creative League program in the City Schools and Philip Mack, coordinator of Student Affairs at Murray, Bertram High School here in

Manhattan. And we invite your phone calls at 212-267-WNYC-267-969-2. What do you think the Board of Education should be doing? What do you think teachers should be doing? What do you think other people in the school system should be doing to help teach unity and reduce prejudice in the schools? Give us a call right now and we will come back right after the news. Stay with us. Our topic this hour is teaching unity, reducing prejudice in the New York City public schools. We have three guests, Philip Mack, coordinator of Student Affairs at Murray, Bertram High School in Lower Manhattan, Dr. Luis Reyes, a new member of the Board of Education appointed this summer and Linda Lantieri, coordinator of the Resolven Conflict Creative League program in the City Schools. And in just a minute, we'll start taking your phone calls on this topic at 212-267-WNYC-267-969-2. Right now, I want to play a short tape of New York City High School and Junior High Kids talking about their experiences with prejudice, being

on the receiving end and dishing it out. And Linda Lantieri, I think this comes from some of your workshops and this is courtesy of Channel 2 from the program. Names can really hurt us. He was like the cutest guy in the school, you know, like everybody liked him. So he comes over to me and spit in my sandwich and said something to the fact of like, I bet you're hungry now, right? I bet you're really hungry now. Black nigga, right, right? And he was standing there laughing. Damn, these guys calling me a speck. I thought I was done with that. I mean, in time I see a white kid, he's a kicker. I used to hate the white girl so much. Something happened to me like two years ago and I don't know who I was. And I was like, I just against people who are like Mexican or look Mexican. Sometimes I discriminate, you know, people that like the orange sex. Like, you know, if

I see a person that's gay, you know, I'll say, no, when it feels good, I ain't going, you know, I can't go. And there's this one cripple guy, you know, while I live. And, you know, just to be one of the gang instant times, you know, pick fights with him. I feel bad about it, but I also feel wrong, but, you know, I felt that if, you know, sometimes I used to be put down because, you know, sometimes the way I dress, the way I act, or people who I hang out with. And I always wanted to be, you know, one of the gang. Sometimes when the kids sing that out of a single person and they start making fun of them, you know, the first time I object and, you know, I don't take part in it. Then after a while, I start thinking, like, I'm in my life. And it's prejudice is sort of contagious. Prejudice is sort of contagious. And that's one of the sad things about it in the city schools. Miss Lanterie, those are some brave kids revealing their hurts and their own prejudices. How do you get into that in a positive way with them? Well, one of the things that has to happen before that kind of sharing takes place is to create

a classroom where young people are feeling safe at many levels and especially emotionally. The clip that you just played probably was about 10 hours into the time that we were spending together where young people began to feel comfortable enough to begin to expose the hurts inside themselves so that they would be more empowered to begin to make a difference very often we keep these hurts inside. And it really disempowers us in a very, very strong way. Mr. Mon, is that similar to anything that goes on in your workshops? Yes. I want to add that I agree. If you give young people a sense of safe environment, they are willing to share so much with you. And I know at Murray-Burgeon High School, we have a leadership program, multicultural classes as well. And it's amazing the kinds of things that kids are willing to share with you. And we need to make this possible for

them on a larger scale and many other schools so that they can have a way to let this out. For many of them, we, the schools, are the only opportunity that this can happen because they come from homes where the parents are working and they get home very late and often they are not able to give them that kind of time. And so I agree that they need to be able to share those kinds of things. They want to share them and they do. Dr. Reyes, it's not just about unity. It's not just about saying, well, I love everybody and wearing blue ribbons and isn't that nice. I mean, that's a good first step. But there has to be more to it than that. There has to be a social justice component also, doesn't there? unity is not even the first step. It's the result of what I call the fourth or respect. And that is having a knowledge of yourself, a respect for yourself, having a knowledge of others and respecting others, respecting their diversity, respecting their rights, respecting our common humanity and acting, thinking, and the attitudes that we show as a result

of that respect. Prejudice hurts. Prejudice bias actually kills. And to the extent that we work on treating people justly and struggle for equality, whether it's the equality for the disabled, the equality for women. And we invite, engage young people at the developmental level that's appropriate for them to move as their children to become adults who are going to act justly and are going to be involved in changing their environment closer to the reality of the ideals of our nation, of the ideals of our society, as opposed to the real problems. That's an education that's worth talking about and supporting. Do you think that's been one of the major problems in the schools in the past, is that as wonderful as this country is, only the upside has been taught. And not enough focus has been placed on what still is lacking in terms of the way our democracy functions. And how

can you, as individuals, when you become adults, go out there and actually improve the system and not just go out there and say, oh, how wonderful. The schools can't be just repeating the mistakes and maintaining the social relations and the power relations that create racism, create sexism so that, to me, one of the important points in education reform is young people to be empowered to think creatively, to think critically, and then to go out and act. Starting in the school, if there are problems in the school that students can see that adults are listening and working with them to change those conditions, whether they're among themselves or between students and teachers, and that the young people have opportunities in the classroom to be, to criticize each other's thoughts intelligently and force each other to get beyond the prejudice and ignorance, and hopefully get out there and do something in the community, be involved for light service.

You mentioned, I'm sorry, you mentioned racism and sexism. What about homophobia? Is the school system dedicated to fighting anti-gay bias, or do you think that gets overlooked a little bit? In the paper, we have a 1985 resolution, and in 1989, a multicultural resolution talks about being against actions that discriminate on the basis of many things, including sexual orientation. I would say that we're doing very little other than the Harvey Milk School, which provides about 50 students an alternative setting for students who have been stigmatized in their local school, high school setting. We have a long way to go. All right, let's take some phone calls, so let me ask you all to put on your headphones so you can hear the callers, and our number 212-267-WNYC-267-692-Lester, you're on the line. Hi, the conversation you were having just now, I thought was good. The one thing that I wanted to add to that is that to deal with the kids who are really in essence a new

product on the scene, discussing an old problem, and many of us have gone through that. I lived in the South, that was part of the movement in the South, and so forth. Many victims and mainly blacks in this country are so sick and tired of trying to explain themselves to other people, who, whether they participate actively or passively, are in the business of racism and bigotry, and no one is giving much thought to creating a safe haven so that those people, as alcoholics or drug addicts would have when they have a place to go like an Alonana AA, to explain what the hell or where they're coming from. Until we can hear all of the various reasons why people think and act mostly the way they do, because you see, until they can talk, they're going to act, they're just going to build up the pressure and then go out and do things crazy, like swing and baseball, that are discriminating against

someone who is applying for a job or setting up a sort of a private quasar club or group, having communities which are limited to certain kinds of people. Linda Lanter, this is really the cutting edge, isn't it? I mean, this is what you're starting to do in your workshops, and Lester is talking about creating the kind of environment where really people can talk about their prejudices, and I think the past attempt, the past approach, has been to get everybody to stifle their prejudices. Well, no, no, that's not what I'm talking about, Brian. What I'm saying is this, what we've been talking to over the centuries, as long as I've been in this world, is talking to the people who have been victims of it, and I'm saying that we need to hear, because until we know what those reasons, why people do what they do, we're working with an unknown, we're never going to solve the problem. It's like trying to get rid of drugs and you're not cutting off the source. And so, you know, and now the balance is coming closer than most people think. Black prejudices is getting as rapid, and in some places more so than

white prejudices in the United States. I mean, in that they're black people who are building up as much venom and power in terms of being prejudices against other people, whether they oriental, the whites, or whatever, and in some cases against other blacks, depending on what their class and so forth is all about. So, you're building up a potential, a violent situation, simply because you're not giving people an opportunity to say what's on their mind, and we do live in a pluralistic society, and we do have to accept other people, and they are part of those other people. We need to hear from those people. Let's hear from some of our panelists in response to that. Dr. Reyes? Well, I think the nervousness, insecurity that different people have, whether for economic reasons, or reasons of segregation and isolation, that has to come out. Why Italian American kids in Bensonhurst, why African-American young people in East Harlem, why different

and adults, why they feel insecure about difference, about Koreans, why one group feels insecure about the other. The whole area of economic justice, the sense that, not the sense, but the reality of African-American communities seeing groups coming in and being treated as immigrants well, and the African-American experience, not benefiting from those policies and those actions. And that's a very difficult position, isn't it? Because when you see yourself as being the victim in an active, present sense, it is very hard not to turn around and be prejudiced against either the people who you see as being more favored, or the people who you see as the victimizers. Well, a classical education says that education is to explore the unknown. And if part of the unknown is why I, as an Italian kid, feel that I'm discriminated against because of

stereotypes in the media, that has to be part of the curriculum, part of the discussion. All right. Linda, very briefly. Very briefly. I would also add that the work that we do in this area has to include a safety as well for those that victimize. And I think that that's a bit of what Leicester was touching on that. What do you mean a safety as well for people who victimize? We don't want that to be too safe. Meaning that they also need to begin to admit some of the acts that have been committed by them in the name of ignorance. They begin, they need to begin to feel the safety to share those stories as well, because this is a cycle. If we completely have the safety of young people, feeling as though they can talk about being victimized, we're never going to get to the perpetrators. We need to have both happen. And certainly in the excerpt that you played, both actually did happen

in that room where young people felt comfortable enough to realize that what they had been doing was wrong. I just wanted to add that during the 50s and the 60s, when Dr. King was leading the civil rights movement in the South, he often said that he not only freed black people, but he freed white people as well. And I think it's important for us to make sure that people know that it is not the person that we are trying to annihilate, but that it is the symptom. We're not after people, we're after the problem. All right. We're going to take a short break, then we'll keep dealing with the problem, and we'll keep dealing with your phone calls at 212-267-WNYC-267-9692. Stay with us. And we continue right now with part four of our five part series, Kids and Prejudice Today's topic is Teaching Unity. Now the fight against prejudice is being waged by officials of the New York City School System, and my three guests are Dr. Luis Reyes, a new member

of the Board of Education appointed this summer, Linda Lanteri, Coordinator of the Resolving Conflict Creatively Program in the City Schools, and Philip Mott, Coordinator of Student Affairs at Murray Bertram High School in Lower Manhattan. And we invite your phone calls at 212-267-WNYC-267-9-692. Sonia, you're on the line. Hi, this question is for Dr. Reyes, Miss Lanteri, or Philip Mork, and my question is. M-O-T-T. My, I'm sorry. Like the street. Okay. And the applesauce. That's right. We get this all your life, right? Yeah. Go ahead Sonia. Okay, my question is, how do you learn to appreciate your own culture when your family at home does not acknowledge your own ethnic background, or is not familiar with your own ethnic background, then how do you learn to have a rapport about it and learn to teach about it and celebrate others' diversity, et cetera, et cetera. That's an interesting point. Mr. Mott, do you find that people come to school or come to your workshops without much of a sense of their own cultural identity? Yes. I know when I was growing up in the 50s and the 60s, my parents

shared a lot of what it was like for them to grow up in the south, and the experiences they had attending church, and what it was like to learn about W.E.B. the boys, and what it was like not to be able to go to certain schools. And I wonder if we still share those kinds of things in our family, and if we still have extended families in the event that those who are in the immediate family don't know the history or the legacy of the family if we can go to someone and learn about that. Anything to add, Ms. Lentieri? I would say it could begin anywhere, and many of the young people in our program are the people in a home that begin to open up the rest of the family simply by asking, simply by sharing and talking, and so I would say to Sonya that it could begin anywhere, and the student can be one of the key people to have that begin to happen in a home.

I agree. I think young people need, if they experience that sense of their parents not providing cultural heritage and appreciation, have to understand that their parents may very well as products of the school system and product of the society have gone through a process of self-denial, shame, stigma, and so they have to understand what their parents and the struggles they have gone through, and accept that each individual, whether their parents themselves have responsibility for determining their identity and for struggling, so I as an individual took me until my doctoral studies before I had an opportunity to deal with the shame that was inculcated me as a Puerto Rican by my teachers, by the society in general that you're doing the right for a Puerto Rican. Hopefully young people don't have to go out and educate themselves, and that's what the schools are about, and that's

what the media and other institutions in the society are about to reflect accurately and positively, the positives and the negatives about our different experiences. Sonya, thank you for your call. There's another issue here, too. There's a related issue, isn't there of maybe teaching parents how to teach about their ethnic identities, because I think a lot of times in families that have a great deal of pride in their particular heritage, sometimes it can get expressed not only as pride, but also as an ethnocentrism, and so there's some prejudice or some negative that gets communicated along with the positive, Ms. Lanteri. Well, I think we've done a lot of work with parents this year in a special project in the Community School District 15, where we trained parents to begin to look at these issues, and then in turn do workshops for other parents, and I think that that's a step in the right direction, where we're beginning to help parents realize that this is a comfortable, easy thing to do with both their children, and then empowering those parents to help other

parents see the same. Mr. Mott, do you see a problem there? Do you think we need to move into kind of a new era of parenting, as well as of education, where the parent is not only saying, well, we're Jewish and we're great, or we're black and we're great, or whatever it is, but also saying where this and where great and other people are also great. I mean, that probably, that might get done less than even instilling one's own ethnic identity. Oh, I agree. I know at Bertram, we invite parents to come into the school. We have lunches with them, and a lot of them who may not necessarily get a chance to be with other African-American parents or other Asian parents or Hispanic parents, other than their children do, children tend to know other parents, but parents don't know each other, and these are ways that they can begin to meet and learn more about themselves. Dr. F. Finally, parents and community representatives should be used in the schools. The parents in early childhood pre-Kindergarten programs coming in and sharing their values,

some of their experiences, some of their practices, so that the children see that they are parents coming into the school are looked up and not looked down at by the school. And also having positive interactions with people of other groups. Right. And parents need to have the opportunity to share their experience of struggle, the conflict, especially immigrant parents, minority parents, and how they have struggles so that the children see, and other children see, that these are not people without power, people who are helpless, marry are on the line. My name is Marion. Oh, Marion, sorry. Okay. Welcome. Well, hello. Listen, I'd like to say it's pretty late to start this now, although it's a good idea. But you know, a lot of times, children from years back remember so much that these schools were the ones to begin all of this trouble. Now you have a backlog of what's going on with the kids bringing weapons in the school,

and the good suffering with the bad. I remember when all new white teachers came in my neighborhood to teach, and either with the black kids fed, we have some nice, beautiful, new white teachers, all the other mean ones are gone. Okay. How do you treat them? They treat us fine. It's pretty late with this. And yet we can't spend too much time looking at the mistakes of the past. If we want to put our energies dealing with, correct, correcting them, right? Yeah, that's right. I think it should go in the whole school area every place, because these kids don't know how to get along. The parents don't know how to get along. So when are they going to ever get together? This is 1991. It's actually 1990, but soon it will be 1991, and hopefully we will be able to move into the new year with a new era in the New York City Schools.

Philip, do you want to comment on her comment at all? I think young people are wonderful, and they want to work together. And I think that, yes, we've made some mistakes, and I don't want to ignore those mistakes because I think it's important because you can learn from them and prove upon them. But I'm hopeful that things will get better, and that we must continue to work hard to make things better for all of us. Marion, thank you for calling us. Dr. Reyes, I know you were on the chance there's task force on integration in the high schools in 1988. Where are we today? How much of an issue is segregation or integration in a system that's 80% black and Hispanic? It's a great issue. It's a problem of segregation that's based on local housing segregation. And therefore, isolation, young people from different groups may not get to mingle and learn together until they get to into high schools, especially if they're going outside

of the neighborhood. We have a problem of overcrowding in some schools that are mostly minority, so the issue of segregation gets tied into unequal distribution of resources, whether the kids that are going to the zone neighborhood high schools are getting the same quality education, quality teachers, quality resources that young people going to our specialized high schools are getting. And so, I see the need to look at segregation at the elementary and intermediate level and not wait to the high schools. And let's give you the last word, Dr. Reyes, we're just about out of time, but for people who've been inspired by what they've heard here this morning, maybe parents or grandparents or cousins or whatever of people who are in the New York City schools, how can you direct them to get the kids into the right program to take charge of this stuff and get to deal with prejudice, victims, victimization, whatever, as well as be recipients of the curriculum

and the educational approach. We're going to be celebrating the convention of the rights of children when the United Nations comes together on the 30th, during that children's week, I hope that children and adults, parents, teachers and many people get together to deal with learning about the rights of children and obviously one of them is the right to an education and other one is the right to an education, respecting culture, race, socioeconomic background language and let's use that time to move forward. All right, and I hope we have used this time well, we are out of time, Dr. Luis Reyes, Linda Lantieri, Philip Mott, thank you all very much for coming in.