Report from Santa Fe; Alan Morgan

Report from Santa Fe is made possible in part by grants from New Mexico Tech on the frontier of science and engineering education. For bachelor's, master's, and PhD degrees, New Mexico Tech is the college you've been looking for, 1-800-428-TECH. I'm Lorraine Mills and I'd like to welcome you to report from Santa Fe. Our guest today is the Interim Cabinet Secretary for Education based on the outcome of the recent special election in the Constitutional Amendments, Alan D. Morgan. Welcome. Thank you very much, Lorraine. It is an honor both personally and professionally to see you continuing this legacy and giving me an opportunity to be back. Well, when I heard the announcement that you were named Interim Director, Interim Secretary, I was absolutely thrilled because we've known your work for years and you've always been a visionary, passionate educator and it made perfect sense to me. Thank you.

Let's talk a little about your background because I know you when you were the commissioner of the Superintendent of Education for 12 years. I've read a lot of your writings from that period and I know you went into consulting, but start with when you were an elementary school teacher and bring us up to the first. Very good. I began teaching school in Albuquerque in 1969. Actually my first check or at least the first annual salary was about $4,450 was my annual salary for the Albuquerque Public Schools beginning in 1969. I taught sixth grade, taught third grade and first grade over in Las Vegas, New Mexico. And in the early 70s was recruited by a woman who was involved in teaching physical education in my high school back in the in the mid 60s, early 60s in Alamogordo. And came to the State Department of Education, headed up the State Testing Program at the time. I was Director of Testing, but I was also the employee of Testing and the support staff of Testing and worked for Leonard DeLio at that time and beginning early in 1972.

Had the good fortune of filling a variety of roles. I was headed up the Elementary Secondary Education Program, headed up the Office of Instruction. We called it the Assistant Superintendent and Light of the Deputy Superintendent for Instruction in the State Department of Education. In 1985, Leonard DeLio, who you and I both knew, well Leonard had made his plans and in the still of the night in early 1985, Leonard headed off for Sun City West and Ann Helen lived there for a good number of years still, his passing in February of this year. And so in 1985, I put my name in the hat to become State Superintendent and as my good fortune would have it, the at that time, 10 elected members of the State Board of Education agreed to offer me the opportunity to serve a State Superintendent and I, it was a great role, a great time for me, for my family, and I had just, we were just married in 1985

and began our work in that capacity on through till I retired at the end of 1997. So it was a good time in New Mexico, history for me at least, it gave me a chance to begin to try to influence not only what was happening in the classrooms where the real difference was made, but really in the view of public education by those of us that are commoners, commoners are the citizenry of the state and a quick sidebar, you and Ernie played quite a role in that too, because you gave my office a voice that really I would not have had. I mean clearly there were many opportunities on commercial broadcasts and I seized those opportunities at every occasion being the kind of spokesperson, the cheerleader, the public cheerleader for public education, but there were rare opportunities to really take issues in greater depth and your program, yours and Ernie's, gave me that opportunity.

So in retrospect, as I think about the growth of public education in the State, it's image, it's reputation, you played a role in that and I'm grateful today as I look back on that and probably never said thank you properly for it, so thanks. Well I know that Ernie was always so proud of the work that you were doing and he really said that you were the soul of education in the State, so and one other thing that you know is that you have young children and there's a lot of abstract educators, but you have not only been in the trenches as an elementary school teacher, but you are actually have elementary-aged children and you're shepherding through the system. I have teased to I think you before about the fact that if you went out in the parking lot, mine is the only car with both an AARP and a PTA sticker on it, you know. So we have our oldest is a 17 chase and he's La Cueva and just inducted this last week into the National Honor Society and he's a from major and our 14-year-old Scott is at Deseridge Middle School, a great student, good kid and our 10-year-old daughter, Catherine,

is a double legal elementary and it's just a sweetheart, I'll tell you a quick sidebar about her in a moment and then Brooke, who is our latest member of the Morgan family, is three, she is from Belarus and she has advised everybody in the house numerous times that her birthday is coming, now it was actually on September 30th, but she's going to stretch this out as long as she possibly can, that part she's already picked up very American eyes very quickly in that regard, so and two new beagle puppies by the way, so. Oh my goodness. Head in, you're right, the quick sidebar, you and I've talked a little bit about this capacity and I don't want to move too far ahead of whatever questions you have prepared Lorraine, but I know a question that is of interest to some is the degree to which this role is perhaps one that I would accept beyond this term or temporary appointment that the governor and I've talked about, so I had reminded the governor today in a discussion

about the fact that he is a world-renowned negotiator, he has traveled to capitals across the world, met with heads of state and they've come here as to Santa Fe and obviously has earned his stripes as a negotiator, but then I reminded him that he's never tried to take on my 10-year-old daughter and Catherine is the one who has said, absolutely not, you know, you, is this mean you're not going to be home? If you did this job permanently, you wouldn't be home for, you won't walk with me on Halloween night and you won't be home for Christmas and what have you, and I said, I'm going to be home Halloween night, I promise I'm going to be here for Christmas and what have you, but I've indicated to the governor, if he wants me beyond November 1st, it's between Bill Richardson and Catherine Morgan, I'm really not a player at that point. TV rights, this is going to be a grand contest of mine, so that was one of my questions. Would you consider not just being the interim cabinet secretary, but would you consider

doing it long-term and I understand now the family consolation? It's really a, it's extremely unlikely, I've said no to the governor and so therefore to be consistent to your inquiry, no is the answer that I've shared with him and I'm very honored to even be talked about. There will be some great candidates in my opinion. Is there anything in the actual structure that would prevent you from taking it, not counting your personal reasons, but is there anything in the structure of the interim appointment that rules you out? No, not that I'm aware, in fact, to the contrary, there is great potential in this role and it's bound to be appealing as you know enough about my whatever drives me, my character, to know that what a great challenge it will be and how fun it would be to be in the very middle of that. So that's the appealing part of all of this is being the one that builds those bridges to the future. And these are bridges that you have been constructing in your imagination and your mind for years and years.

The whole thing about this First Amendment was accountability. If we had a cabinet secretary, it would be more accountable than the superintendent. And I look back at some of your writings, you know, when you were superintendent, they were all about accountability. So suddenly you're in a position of having the accountability that you need, the control, that you know. That's a great point. And then the funds, to actually, for once not all educators, grand, poor house, all the time and being so oppressed, to finally be able to manifest that vision that's very tempting. Well, as a matter of public policy, you're exactly right. It is an opportunity that we in New Mexico have not historically held. And it is clearly one that most states have not yet been able to organize themselves in such a, they've not been able to organize themselves in such a manner as to do what we have now, the opportunity to do as a state. Quick point on that, perhaps. In my consulting practice, I have the opportunity to work with the governors, the chief state school officers, which means whether you call it secretary of it or commissioner of

it or state superintendent, the person who's in charge of public it. I know every one of them in the United States, every single one. And I know a little bit about the structures of education across the country. Well, New Mexico is in a unique position with the adoption of amendment one, to be able to think about the needs, the learning needs of our citizenry from preschool through graduate school, the lifelong learning, the learning needs, whether you're incarcerated or whether or not you are a person who simply knows that they will be able to improve their lot and their families lot if they had a high school diploma, and they're 53 years of age or whatever. The point is, we have an obligation, I think, as a state, to think about the learning needs of all of our people as a state. And we now have a governmental structure which really can reinforce the importance of the efficiency to try to reduce the bureaucracy to the maximum extent possible. We have these silos, well-intentioned silos, but early childhood education has its advocates

and supporters over in an office in the children, youth, and family agency. And we have the commission on higher ed that cares about the budgets and the functions and the performance of higher education in the state. And we have 17 two-year post-secondary institutions out there that operate to the benefit of our people. And then we have 700 plus public schools and charter schools and private schools that are concerned about kindergarten through 12th grade, being able to work at least with the governmental leaders across those entities, to find a way to make more efficient and more cohesive the system, strikes me as just simply common sense. But only a few states, Pennsylvania, Florida have really moved in that direction. And I think we can learn from their errors, the whatever they look like in those states. And frankly, avoid them recognizing that as we've all quoted many times, Governor Wallace and Lou Wallace, in his point about New Mexico not necessarily replicating the experience

of other states, nonetheless, we have an opportunity and we need to seize it, Lorraine. Well, one of the vision statements you had early on when you were superintendent, I found some moving because it says, and I'll probably mangle your quotations that you can fix it for me, that the vision of the Department of Education at that time was to ensure that every student worked to their full potential, supported by every citizen of New Mexico. That's pretty much it. You did a great job. And we mean not only financially supported, but in the other value for education and the support for a student having difficulty learning in difficult areas. I imagine that the steel, your emblem, your banner. It is, it is the banner in several respects. My concern was really divided into, in, hopefully cohesive, in three areas. If you don't have clear standards and expectations set forth for the student, for the teacher, for the school system, for the state education officials, the state board of education, all

of us who play a role in that process. If you aren't clear about what you expect, then it is, I think, patently unfair to attempt to hold people accountable for a vague, nondescript set of expectations. Whether it's expecting a three-year-old, a third grader to be able to subtract four-digit numbers with regrouping, or whether, in fact, it's expecting a certain level of performance from a school system that has all the ingredients to be able to derive that performance, but for whatever reason, is not deriving that performance, or is well exceeding that performance. Clear standards, reasonable assessments. The yardsticks that we use to measure whether or not a child is learning. The yardstick we use to determine whether a school is making progress over time. The yardsticks we use to say our system is better today than it was yesterday, or last year, that's the reasonable assessments part. And then the third component is responsible accountability. You can't have clear standards and reasonable assessments without some willingness to do

something about it, and that is either to hold the school's accountable, hold the educators accountable, hold the student accountable, and hold now in this new structure, frankly, hold the governor accountable, and that includes the secretary of education. And while it's probably easier for me to say this, recognizing that I will not be the person who has to carry out the full implementation, the point is the governor's vision is to be able to have this pre-school through graduate school system. Now we get the challenge as New Mexicans to begin to fill in what that really means during the legislative session, not only this year, but over the next several years, and as we go out and work in communities. Now one of my questions is, how will you or the cabinet secretary measure, you've finally got the authority and you've gotten the funds, how are you going to measure what kind of job is being done? Well I am optimistic on two counts, and I always hopefully over the years have told you what I know as well as what I don't know, and there are facets of the, I think, the proper

response to your question. I don't know yet. I really do not know yet, but let's take what we do know. First I'm hopeful your optimism about the funds, it is. That's true. We have to make a note that as of yet this is not the final yet, and you're right, exactly. And I am hopeful that indeed the conclusion New Mexicans have reached by some majority vote is that they're willing to proceed with taking a portion of the interest income on the permanent funded and devote it a larger proportion to public education. I won't restate the merits of that argument unless you want to get into it, but it in fact is the direction I think is a matter of public policy we are taking. So I'm frankly grateful for that. I'm grateful for it because as you think about the legislative session that's coming, you know a lot about what goes on in this process, and you know that there are so many demands on the state's budget that are not, they are not our historical demands.

There are more recent demands that have caused public education to take a shrinking proportion of the pie. Not less money. And I want to be very clear about that. I think New Mexico has supported public education. Given especially our financial condition as a state, I think we've supported education very well. That said, is it enough? No, it is not enough. And frankly, it is distressing to me to have the percentage of the pie. When I first became State Superintendent 1985, we had about 54% of the state's budget that went to kindergarten through 12. Today we have more kids by about 60,000 kids and we had being educated back then. But we now have about 46% of the budget pie that is devoted to public education. Why not because the legislature of the governor said they don't need more, they deserve less, whatever they've said. The truth of matter is between the demands of Medicare and demands for our correction system to be able to respond to the citizens' expectation that we incarcerate more people,

the expectations that are enumerous other areas of government, services for our elderly, whatever it happens to be, we have changed our priorities in terms of the state's budget and a smaller proportion is going into public yet. Part of what I'm hopeful you and every other person in the state will be very watchful about is so the taxpayers agreed, apparently, to allow more money to go into the legislature's hands to spend on education. People don't always see that middle statement to go into the legislature's hands to spend on public education. If we don't watch, with all due respect to my constitutional partners in the legislature, the truth of matter is if we don't watch this very carefully, there are so many other demands on the public pie of the budget that I'm worried some we won't see the real incremental benefit to public education.

You will at first, I mean there's a lot of visibility, you can bet the 2004 legislative session will include a great deal of scrutiny about that, but it's going to require scrutiny every day after that session and on into the future foreseeable to be able to ensure that the message not just was sent by the voters, even by a small percentage difference, that indeed the message has been received and carried out by the legislature and the governor. And that includes my friend and colleague Bill Richardson and also includes governors that come in the future. Now that's more than you want to take on it, let's go back to your specific question and give you a chance to pick it up from there and take us where you want to go with it. Well actually you've led me now, my next question is what will your first order of business be? Well first there are two priorities that are on my desk in my life at the moment when it comes to work and I obviously qualify when it comes to work. Priority one is that there's been an awful lot of conversation, fair amount of media discussion about the State Department of Education's current budget situation.

I mean the recent little problem that- Absolutely. The issue of whether or not that agency, this agency, the state education agency is going to have to request a supplemental appropriation just to get through the fiscal year. I don't know the answer to that yet. What I do know is that with the help of some longtime colleagues like Henry Gonzales and Tress he don't, that will be in a position to get a good answer for the governor and for some of us about the real status of the agency. What kind of new financial controls if any need to be put in place to ensure that future persons, including the real Secretary of Education, the permanent one, have the tools to know what budget they do have and what they will need to complete the year properly. Secondarily, and then it's again, first priority, what do we have now, and there's a side part of that one that I should mention. Those about six or seven weeks underway across most of New Mexico, teaching and learning are taking place every day in New Mexico classrooms in the school week.

We also are in a situation where this agency, the state education agency, I think especially in this time when the question marks are many about, so what will this constitution amendment really mean to educators, to families, to state government? I think our position right now has to be one of, let's try to calm the waters, let's try to stabilize that environment, the departments moving forward, we're making sure we respond to the regulatory demands that are out there, the leadership demands that are out there, to try to be sure that school is supported and conducted in a proper manner. So that stability is an important attitude that surrounds my being there for whatever period of time as the Secretary of Education parenthetically enter them. It is also important as we look down the road to recognize that the legislature, not just for the special session in October, but for the regular session in January, we'll expect to have good data about exactly what it's going to cost to open the doors of New Mexico's public schools in the fall of 2004.

What will be the exact price tag for the promises we made as a state over these last few months, but we haven't written the checks on. We've made the promise, we've received the bill now, exactly what numbers need to go on that bill, part of what I need to ensure that we focus on in the State Department of Education over the next couple of weeks. If that data is inaccurate about what the needs of New Mexico students and schools happen to be, then we create total chaos come legislative session time because if that's 40% percent of the budget and we don't have confidence in those numbers, we're in trouble as we think about all the other priorities that exist. So there's a domino effect I'm concerned about, that's why it's very high on the priority list. Now the longer range issues that I probably won't be involved in, but I think we'll have to be considered is, so we almost wipe the slate clean of the New Mexico public school code when this constitutional amendment was adopted. In other words, a whole lot of laws, regulations simply went away.

Now many of us who do not love big government are probably saying, oh, great, if we've got less regulation, that's bound to be better. Maybe, maybe not. If we somehow damage those three key components, clear standards, reasonable assessments, responsible accountability, as we abolished all of those laws and regulations and what have you, then we're also creating a problem for ourselves for the future. So in this interim between now and January, we better have a pretty good idea of what laws need to be placed on the books to help begin building this preschool through graduate school system and they won't be ready for all of them at least, for January of 2004. It is an imperative that the governor begins a system and that we make that happen in this state. Of probably a three year plan is what I'm going to suggest, to be able to know what are those priorities that really must be addressed in statute in 2004, five and six, to carefully logically construct a system that avoids the bureaucracy but takes advantage of our opportunity.

Excellent. We only have a few minutes left, so I'm going to do some very quick questions. Yes, ma'am. Dr. Dan Lopez of tech is in charge of the search committee and that has how many members? About 31, I think. Uh-huh. So they're going to be... I got the workout out for them. Yeah. They really do. It's a very limited time frame. Dan is a long time friend and I have great confidence in his leadership. They can do this job, but it is a tall order because of the timing. I think everyone is interested in moving ahead with a list of people at the governor can examine as possible candidates for the secretary and so I'm going to support him every way I can, but I'm not on the panel and don't want to be on the panel. That's their job. Okay. My other question, I'm going to have to phrase it really quickly, but the transition between the board and how that's going to come down in a little bit. Great question.

Yeah. Let's have a grand. I don't want to create it, essentially, but took the 10 members that are elected on the state board and as of in my view, October 15th, they will form the public education commission rather than the state board of education. I sent a letter to him yesterday and asked them if they would be so kind as to tell me whether the 15th or 16th, literally within 24 to 48 hours of the certification of this election, I would like to meet with him and begin forging a relationship between the secretary of education's office, the public education commission. How can we use their talents and skills and advice to make this function work the way we believe it can and should? One of the concerns I know that some of our viewers have is this was an elected board responsible to different areas of the state and therefore available for complaints, questions and then how can the office of one person, the cabinet secretary, be as responsive and out there? Great question. I believe they can for a couple of reasons. One is that remember the public education commission has not gone away, in other words you still have 10 elected people from all across in Mexico.

My belief is that we should move towards ensuring that those people continue to get a sense of their regional needs and bring those as part of this advice process and work closely with the secretary to turn that into public policy. Ernie always asks this at the end, what did I forget to ask you so much to the table that is there something in our last minute? Again, I think you've covered the waterfront on this, but it is important, I guess the kind of closing statements, sort of recognize that the governor as an elected official is still very sensitive to what the citizen re-believe, citizen re-believe to be the right future direction for public education. I'd like to keep the heat on the governor. He may not want me to say it this way, but that's the way I feel about it. I'd say it, but we're any governor. I want to keep the heat on the governor, where people are expecting us to build upon this opportunity. We've got to keep the governor and the legislature focused on creating the laws that allow for an efficient, effective preschool through graduate school system of public education. That's why I voted for Constitutional Amendment 1, and I'm hopeful that that's the way the

people will now demand that we see a system evolve. Well, thank you very, very much. I can't imagine that this is only a month-long job. I really, when it was announced to us that you were the choice, I was very pleased, because we followed your career for so long, and you just seemed like the perfect choice. And I love what you said about restraining the forces of chaos, and I know with you at the helm there will be no chaos allowed. And I want to thank you for taking the opportunity to share with us what your experience is. And I wish you all the best, and I want to be in the room when the governor and your daughter taught, because it is actually for your daughter that you're doing this. That is true. It's hard for a ten-year-old to understand that. That is very true. But you're doing this for not only your kids, but all of our kids. Exactly right, and thank you for saying so. Yes. So I'd like to thank you for being with us. I'm Lorraine Mills, and our guest today has been Alan Morgan, the interim cabinet secretary for education.

Thank you. You're welcome. I'd like to thank you for being with us today on report from Santa Fe. Report from Santa Fe is made possible in part by grants from New Mexico Tech, on the frontier of science and engineering education. For bachelor's, master's, and PhD degrees, New Mexico Tech is the college you've been looking for, 1-800-428-TECH.