thumbnail of Whose Crisis Is This?; SD-Base
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<v narrator>Who's prosperous dairy farm has provided a comfortable upper in the. <v narrator>Mabel Olsen, whose fixed income from social security has severely curtailed <v narrator>her independence. <v narrator>The Rhodas, young and hopeful, starting out at a lower income, <v narrator>being forced to reassess their entire future. <v narrator>And the Tschidas who's comfortable upper income suburban lives may well be threatened <v narrator>by the turn of events and energy. <v Ron Tschida>I think we had a lot of lot of dreams and lot of things we wanted to accomplish. <v Ron Tschida>We wanted to raise a family, be able to afford to send them to good school <v Ron Tschida>in good living surroundings and lend ourselves <v Ron Tschida>a nice home. <v narrator>Thirty nine year old Ron Tschida has spent his entire working life in the retail <v narrator>food business. He has risen from produce stock boy at age 15
<v narrator>to vice president of produce operations for a major Twin Cities supermarket chain. <v narrator>Shari Tschida, Ron's wife of 18 years, has worked both as homemaker <v narrator>and medical secretary during that time, now employed part time at a <v narrator>cardiologist's office in St. Paul. <v narrator>Sherry has worked for private physicians and assisted in the infirmary at Stillwater <v narrator>State Prison. <v Shari Tschida>I have worked a large part of our life. <v Shari Tschida>Because I like to work. I love to work. I love to be with people. <v Shari Tschida>And I like the money, too. I can't say I don't. <v Shari Tschida>But. <v Shari Tschida>It's convenience. <v Shari Tschida>I don't maybe have some of the things that working women have now, like microwaves. <v Shari Tschida>And some of these. <v Shari Tschida>But that's by choice, because I hate to get away from the idea that <v Shari Tschida>you can't cook for your family.
<v narrator>Sherry Ron and there are three children, Amy, Tim and Lisa <v narrator>moved from St. Paul into the house they built seven years ago, looking forward to <v narrator>the open spaces of suburban Mahtomedi, Minnesota. <v Ron Tschida>My main objective for moving out here was so that we can have a home <v Ron Tschida>with areas and places for the kids to stay at home and have recreation <v Ron Tschida>with the pool and the woods in the backyard. <v Ron Tschida>Place to ride horses, whatever faith. <v Ron Tschida>Maybe they didn't have to go a long distance to a park or a public swimming <v Ron Tschida>pool or lake or whatever, have you. <v narrator>17 year old Ronald Timothy. <v narrator>Tim to his parents, Ron to his classmates and young friends. <v narrator>Rehearses for a performance at his graduation ceremony.
<v narrator>Tim's been graduated from Cretin High School, his father's alma mater. <v narrator>And like his father, he was working in the produce department as a stocker. <v Tim Tschida>When I was going to school with my car, it used to cost me like maybe <v Tim Tschida>10 fif- well, 15 or 20 dollars for the week for gas. <v Tim Tschida>Now it cost me almost thirty five dollars to go back and forth to work and <v Tim Tschida>to. To school. <v Tim Tschida>And that's that's just that's just during the work going to school and to going <v Tim Tschida>to work and to school. And then on the weekend, that's another tank of gas. <v Tim Tschida>It's less fun on the weekends. <v Ron Tschida>They've got 20 and 25 miles to get them here to St. Paul proper. <v Ron Tschida>And then wherever in St. Paul, you're going to be going to school, work, whatever the <v Ron Tschida>case may be. So we put on a good 50 to 60 <v Ron Tschida>mile, just going to and coming back home,
<v Ron Tschida>landing here, getting more to home activities because of energy crunch. <v Ron Tschida>We aren't likely to take off at the lake on a weekend. <v Ron Tschida>Stay home and enjoy what you have. <v Karen Rhodas>I don't think we ever do do is if we don't go up north, is like bowling. <v Karen Rhodas>Zile, I have my once a week bowling my one time out of the house <v Karen Rhodas>and then I can use in the springtime when we join a league together because he doesn't <v Karen Rhodas>like the long winter. <v narrator>Dennis and Karen Rhoda live in the city, but their hearts were and are <v narrator>elsewhere. <v Karen Rhodas>We were never going to live in the city. <v Karen Rhodas>We didn't even want to come back to the city, but we didn't have a choice. <v narrator>The Rhoda's were married soon after graduation from high school in Forest Lake, <v narrator>Minnesota. That was four years ago. <v narrator>Dennis is now 23. <v narrator>Karen is 22. <v narrator>They rented an apartment in suburban New Brighton. <v narrator>And while Karen was working at a factory.
<v narrator>Dennis was employed at Delux Check printers. <v Dennis Rhoda>I was working in St. Paul in the St. Paul plant <v Dennis Rhoda>with the hopes of someday getting out towards one of the Shoreview plants <v Dennis Rhoda>and then buying a house out that direction in a few years. <v Dennis Rhoda>And I got the opportunity to move out to that plant. <v Dennis Rhoda>So I took the move and. <v Dennis Rhoda>Well, we're not really too sure if we're going to be moving [Karen Rhoda: if we'll ever <v Dennis Rhoda>be able to move] for a while. <v narrator>Soon, the first of their two sons, Brian, was born. <v narrator>They bought a house in the north end of St. Paul. <v Karen Rhodas>And then we bought the house with just one income because we didn't want me to have <v Karen Rhodas>to go back to work. When I decided when the kids were old enough, I would go back to work <v Karen Rhodas>and then we could have more for us that way. <v Karen Rhodas>But now it's to the point where I don't have a choice. <v Karen Rhodas>I have to go back to work even just to keep the groceries and pay <v Karen Rhodas>the utility bills because of utility bills, what have really gone up the most in the two
<v Karen Rhodas>years that we have lived here. <v Karen Rhodas>That's their what? Gone up a good- [Dennis Rhoda: groceries] groceries, too. <v Karen Rhodas>But I don't see it nearly with groceries as I did the utility bills. <v narrator>Son Bradley was on his way last fall when the road heating bill arrived. <v narrator>Astonishing and angering Karen, who promptly sent the mayor's office a letter <v narrator>protesting the large increase over their previous months payment. <v Karen Rhodas>And it bothered me because all of a sudden winter hadn't even hit and I feel it already <v Karen Rhodas>doubled. And that scared me. <v Karen Rhodas>I thought. What? I didn't know what to expect for the rest of the winter. <v Karen Rhodas>We only we did keep the heat down by about 68. <v Karen Rhodas>And I would've liked to have gone lower to save on the heating bill. <v Karen Rhodas>But with the baby I really couldn't because the House was cold enough as it was all <v Karen Rhodas>winter. Everybody was complaining and we just we just watched TV with blankets <v Karen Rhodas>or sweaters and but it was cold. <v Mable Olson>I didn't heat the house as warm as I would have liked it. <v Mable Olson>And I use gas for cooking.
<v Mable Olson>So I didn't cook everything that I would have liked to like something <v Mable Olson>that takes a long time to cook or or roast. <v narrator>Mable Olson retired eight years ago at the age of 77. <v Mable Olson>I was working in the shop where they <v Mable Olson>make men's overcoats and top coats. <v Mable Olson>And I did the hand finishing on those coats. <v Mable Olson>The work I did made them more expensive because there was handwork. <v Mable Olson>Twenty one years I worked at that. <v narrator>Now, 85, Mabel Olsen is a survivor. <v narrator>Widowed more than 25 years ago. <v narrator>She climbs two flights of stairs to her small apartment not a block away <v narrator>from the duplex she was forced to sell because of rising utility costs, costs <v narrator>which her monthly Social Security check could not cover. <v narrator>All of this a far cry from the very early days. <v narrator>Mabel married in 1915.
<v Mable Olson>Oh boy. That was really wonderful. <v Mable Olson>And you know, well, my husband managed a hardware <v Mable Olson>store when we got married and he was in there <v Mable Olson>about. Probably close to four years, but he didn't <v Mable Olson>like the inside work. <v Mable Olson>We moved out on the farm and we lived <v Mable Olson>there. Well, I think four years, then I got sick. <v Mable Olson>And I had to go to the hospital. <v Mable Olson>So then we moved back to town and. <v Mable Olson>He bought the power plant. <v Mable Olson>And we lived upstairs above <v Mable Olson>the power plant. It was run by a stationary engine and <v Mable Olson>it supplied electricity for the town. <v narrator>The hardware store, the farm and their very own electric utility company were just the <v narrator>beginnings of their life together during World War Two.
<v narrator>Mabel's husband owned a petroleum distribution company and service station business. <v narrator>While Mabel revived a dying restaurant with her home cooking. <v narrator>Tragedy struck during the 50s, Mabel's husband died after a prolonged illness <v narrator>just three short years after moving into their Minneapolis home. <v Mable Olson>I thought when we retired, if our home was paid for. <v Mable Olson>With my Social Security, my husband's Social Security <v Mable Olson>and. <v Mable Olson>My pension that we would live. <v Mable Olson>Real good because our car was paid for. <v Mable Olson>Everything was paid for. Then when my husband got sick, of course, I took <v Mable Olson>took money and he passed away. <v Mable Olson>And there was just one income. <v Mable Olson>And then when I retired, I didn't get my pension. <v Mable Olson>So. It was a lot different than what I had planned. <v Mable Olson>But I did real well until
<v Mable Olson>the utilities started going up so high.
<v John Keller>I remember when we got electricity. <v John Keller>This was just before the war. <v John Keller>And our farm was at the end of the line. <v John Keller>And it stopped here until after the war. <v John Keller>And at that time. <v John Keller>My folks had a discussion about the rates and <v John Keller>it was going to be four dollars a month, whether you use that much electricity or not. <v John Keller>And. <v John Keller>I can remember, jeez you know, that's four dollars every month, <v John Keller>you know. <v John Keller>I don't think we ever did have a bill of four dollars. <v John Keller>It was always more than that. <v narrator>John and Dorraine Keller are the second generation owners of a good sized feed and <v narrator>dairy farm outside of Stillwater, Minnesota. <v narrator>In the rural town of May. <v narrator>John is chairman of the town board, a post he's held for 12 years. <v narrator>The killers have eight children, all but one of whom were reunited recently to celebrate
<v narrator>John and Dorraine's 30th wedding anniversary. <v narrator>The four oldest have moved on to careers elsewhere. <v narrator>Two have married. <v narrator>Rich, eldest of those still at home, works full time for his father. <v narrator>But both are uncertain whether Rich will take the mantle for the third generation. <v John Keller>My dad farmed here before I did. <v John Keller>But I can't see where any of my kids could afford to buy this thing. <v John Keller>It's just it would amount to so much money, you know, that I think I can't <v John Keller>see where they'd ever do anything but work and work hard for so <v John Keller>many years. <v narrator>Grandpa John Keller, nearly 90, now keeps an eye on things these days, <v narrator>but he remembers well how it was before electricity and modern machinery <v narrator>helped streamline and expand the farm operation to three times its original <v narrator>size. <v John Keller Sr.>Well, it was, you know, different ways of doing things. <v John Keller Sr.>You see, we started plowing this with a walking plow, you
<v John Keller Sr.>know, just one furrow and a team of horses on it. <v John Keller Sr.>And then later then we got to bottom plow, <v John Keller Sr.>you know, and then we've put five horses on that. <v John Keller Sr.>Five horses. Yeah. Three in front and two <v John Keller Sr.>behind see. That was all equalized, you know. <v John Keller Sr.>So each horse would be pulling the same amount you know. <v John Keller>They attribute a lot of hungry people who went back to that because there's no way <v John Keller>that, like just our family could go over anywhere <v John Keller>near the amount of acres that I can with tractor equipment, <v John Keller>comparing it to horse equipment. <v John Keller>For the Kellers, as both consumers and producers, energy consumption <v John Keller>is a two edged sword. <v John Keller>That's the sound of liquid gold you're getting there.
<v John Keller>I don't feel that very many farmers ever wasted fuel to begin with. <v John Keller>You know, you've got you've got to put a crop in and it's going to take that much fuel to <v John Keller>put it in. And, uh, it just, uh, <v John Keller>it just takes so much fuel to produce food <v John Keller>and, uh, cutting down. <v John Keller>I mean, of course, we we try and keep our trips across the field. <v John Keller>At a minimum. <v John Keller>We're talking about electricity, too. <v John Keller>Boy. Our electric bills are double what they used to be. <v John Keller>And before. <v John Keller>A long time ago, it was a lot lower, of course because we didn't have as much <v John Keller>electrical [Dorraine Keller: devices] yeah, [Dorraine Keller: <v John Keller>appliances]. <v Dorraine Keller>To me we have worked so hard. <v Dorraine Keller>Then why should we cut down on the things that we have worked so hard to get? <v Dorraine Keller>You see what I mean?
<v Speaker>[commercia]. <v Ross Bishop>Energy is one of the two or three factors that drives or shapes lifestyle. <v Ross Bishop>And as energy costs and availabilities change, we know that people have <v Ross Bishop>to alter some aspects of their lifestyle to adapt to that. <v Ross Bishop>We decide to have refrigerators. <v Ross Bishop>We decide to have air conditioning. We decide to have a certain size house that <v Ross Bishop>fundamentally decides that we will consume so much energy. <v Tim Tschida>Look at the people that have electric toothbrushes, electric, electric knives, <v Tim Tschida>electric can openers, electric shoe shiners, electric hair blowers. <v Tim Tschida>All that that can be done yourself. <v Dorraine Keller>If I had to, I would think I could cut it out and wash <v Dorraine Keller>my own dishes. <v John Keller>But yeah. But the time that you save, not washing dishes
<v John Keller>is productive time because you're helping me all the time. <v Dorraine Keller>That's right. <v John Keller>Jeez, we got eight kids. <v John Keller>That's a lot of dishes. And, uh, she's <v John Keller>always was raised in a great big garden, to feed us, you know, and all <v John Keller>the time that she's saved from washing dishes. <v Dorraine Keller>Those are two items. I don't think I could get along without the dishwasher <v Dorraine Keller>and the clothes dryer, though. Really. <v Mable Olson>I had a lot of appliances, but I didn't use any. <v Mable Olson>I used my washing machine. <v Mable Olson>And my lights. <v Mable Olson>And I watched television very little. <v Mable Olson>And I wouldn't have had a television set, except my son gave it to me for <v Mable Olson>a Christmas gift. <v Mable Olson>But I also had a coffee maker, a waffle maker, <v Mable Olson>an electric frying pan. <v Mable Olson>Mostly gifts, but I couldn't afford to use them because of the high price <v Mable Olson>of electricity.
<v Speaker>You can light a hundred watt bulb three hours for only one penny. <v Speaker>electrically. <v Speaker>Let's leave them on then, Roy. <v Speaker>What's wrong, Mildred? <v Speaker>I can't stand it dirty furnace, that awful stove, <v Speaker>noisy refrigerator. Cold water. <v Speaker>Say Mildred, You don't keep yourself very neat since we were married. <v Speaker>Come, mini Gasko help you. Gas heat clean. <v Speaker>Gas refrigerator quiet. <v Speaker>Gas heater always has hot water. <v Speaker>You cook first class with gas. <v Speaker>Live first class with gas. <v Speaker>Hey mildred. Why mildred. <v Speaker>Go first class with gas.
<v Ron Tschida>I think the society we live in the repetitious ads you hear, <v Ron Tschida>read, watch on TV. <v Ron Tschida>Put the ideas in your head, once the idea is there, you know that you've got a use for <v Ron Tschida>it. Then you go out and you think you should have it. <v Ron Tschida>And if you've got the money and you can afford it, you go out and you buy it. <v Ron Tschida>And you make use of it, they all consume energy to a certain extent. <v Ron Tschida>And a majority of them do. <v Ron Tschida>And they've been put to the public's grasp <v Ron Tschida>and they're able to acquire 'em. They go out and get them and bring them home and they <v Ron Tschida>start using energy with 'em. <v Ross Bishop>One of the biggest problems we face in dealing with particular residential conservation <v Ross Bishop>is the fact that nobody really buys electricity or natural gas. <v Ross Bishop>What you do is you get light, you get heat, you run your toothbrush. <v Ross Bishop>If you happen to have an electric toothbrush. <v Ross Bishop>You make conscious consumption decisions to use those things. <v Ross Bishop>And the electricity or the natural gas is almost incidental to that appliance.
<v Ross Bishop>So that the consumer never really thinks about the product that he is using, <v Ross Bishop>energy in this case. <v Mable Olson>Now, I never had more than one light on at the time, <v Mable Olson>and I used my television about three hours a day. <v Mable Olson>And that's all electricity I use except my electric clock. <v Ron Tschida>To reduce your own cost around here, we're very, very careful on your electricity, <v Ron Tschida>keeping no more lights on than you need in the wintertime, we keep <v Ron Tschida>the thermostat down as long as I feel we should have, it <v Ron Tschida>gets a little cold once in a while. <v Ron Tschida>That's alright. <v Karen Rhodas>I would still go lower as long as everybody's old enough where they can keep themselves <v Karen Rhodas>warm like put a sweater on, but then I can't expect that out of the baby. <v Dennis Rhoda>We just try to keep lights off-. <v Karen Rhodas>Lights off at night. <v Dennis Rhoda>And just try to- [Karen Rhoda: usually, basically there's no light on after 4 at night.] <v Dennis Rhoda>try not to waste anything <v Dorraine Keller>Well, everybody thinks they're doing their bit, I think.
<v Dorraine Keller>But. <v Dorraine Keller>And yet they aren't, you know. <v John Keller>Well, we keep hollering at everybody to shut the lights off, but once in a while they get <v John Keller>left on. <v Dorraine Keller>But I think those kind of little things. <v Dorraine Keller>Are minor, really. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>That's right. In fact, if a family really wanted to conserve energy turning off the <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>lights, though, which is very nice. And it makes us feel perhaps good about that. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>But basically, if people cannot do something about the efficiency of their house in terms <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>of heating and cooling and or can't do something about the amount they drive their <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>automobile, they basically will find changing their <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>cooking habits and turning off lights and not standing in front of the refrigerator <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>door, though that could be looked at as wasteful. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>It just doesn't really make a great deal of difference. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>And the utility bill, in comparison to using the car and using the or <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>setting the thermostat at seventy two or seventy five in the winter.
<v Ron Tschida>Like this winter when they had the radio announcements out and the TV announcement turned <v Ron Tschida>the thermostat down to 65 etc etc, get you back into <v Ron Tschida>these big shopping malls and they're warm as toast. <v Ron Tschida>And you walk into these apartment buildings and all these hallways, <v Ron Tschida>everything are heated and they're using much more heat, fuel, electricity. <v Ron Tschida>And I'm in my home. <v Sherri Tschida>And we're freezing. <v Dorraine Keller>I think it's wasted a lot of places and factories in. <v Dorraine Keller>Where they leave the lights on all night and all these kind of things. <v John Keller>No matter where you go into a live store or a restaurant, you got to wear a coat <v John Keller>again to keep from freezing to death on account of the air conditioning. <v John Keller>And to me, that's a waste. <v John Keller>Boy, there's a you know, people are sure awful darn soft <v John Keller>if they can't get a little warm or a little bit cold. <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>With regard to the families who go in supermarkets and see white lights <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>and say, doggone it, why should I do anything? <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>You know, look at what they're wasting.
<v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>You know, that's again, that's diffusion of responsibility. <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>Why should I? Hell, no one else is helping is really <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>what they're saying. Why should I make a sacrifice when no one else does? <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>It's not necessary. <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>Or they can sometimes rationalize by saying, even if I did something, that wouldn't help <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>because all these others aren't doing anything yet. <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>And that's a dilemma. A moral dilemma. <v Dorraine Keller>I think the poor people will suffer. <v Dorraine Keller>If the price goes up because I think they'll cut down, where are the people that have <v Dorraine Keller>money are still going to buy it. <v Speaker>I think that's where you're finding all a lot of your housewives going back to work to <v Speaker>help with the odds and ends that you need before they really didn't have <v Speaker>to take you didn't have your high expense on. <v Speaker>?inaudible?. <v Speaker>Electricity and gas and oil the whole works. <v Karen Rhodas>Yea you'd see at times, especially when the checkbook's running really low.
<v Karen Rhodas>And then you get this big bill in the mail from NSP and it <v Karen Rhodas>gets, it gets me mad. I know that. <v Dennis Rhoda>Yea, Sometimes you just like to say, to heck with it. And do what you want. <v Karen Rhodas>How do you pay 'em? <v Karen Rhodas>That's the way I feel sometimes. <v Speaker>I remember a couple of years ago, three or four, when we had a terrific winter storm <v Speaker>and people sat in their houses and froze to death, or almost froze <v Speaker>to death, at least. <v Speaker>They seem helpless. <v narrator>People are freezing to death in their homes right here in America. <v narrator>Thousands more are dying from pneumonia and other illnesses brought on by the cold. <v narrator>The poor face another long, cold winter. <v Ron Tschida>Something like that in our society shouldn't be happening. <v Ron Tschida>And. <v Ron Tschida>Once again, I don't know exactly who should step in and do it, but somebody's got to step
<v Ron Tschida>and do something about it. They do it for welfare programs. <v Ron Tschida>They do it for a lot of other programs. And I don't know why they couldn't do something <v Ron Tschida>on that basis to cover up such a need that somebody does have. <v Ron Tschida>And it definitely is there. <v John Keller>Went on a CPR call. <v John Keller>You know, just because they can't afford to buy it, if- if there's a enough <v John Keller>of it. <v John Keller>That would be a bad deal. <v Speaker>What do you what do you think about this? <v Speaker>Let's say that everybody puts in solar heat and all this stuff. <v Speaker>What happens to the power companies? <v Speaker>Well, the rates go up because you don't use as much. <v Speaker>You don't. Your rates go up. You don't use as much power. <v Speaker>Yeah. You know, they've got bills to pay anyway. <v Speaker>They're just like any other business. <v Speaker>So. <v Speaker>Now this has happened in wrote about this where people have conserved like crazy, <v Speaker>and they're on a different rate. <v Speaker>How about, there's thing guy in Demoring he has what- Remember that one in the paper he <v Speaker>uh, he was an older man, lived alone in a small house.
<v Speaker>I don't know, you know what the price of his utility bill was? <v Speaker>But it was fairly high and then the next year during the winter, he was spending his days <v Speaker>at a neighbor's, benevolent neighbors, helping them out. <v Speaker>So he wasn't home, had it all turned down and didn't use that much <v Speaker>anyway. He had this house all insulated and the price his bills went up <v Speaker>almost doubled for the next year. <v Speaker>He didn't even cook or eat there? <v Speaker>No. And it still doubled the next year. <v Speaker>So you solved the whole problem. <v Speaker>He had to rip the meter out. <v Speaker>Anyway. The gas heat and he used kerosene lamps for light. <v Speaker>But how unfair is that? Yeah, you do your best to conserve and then they charge <v Speaker>you double. <v Shari Tschida>Well, what about some of these people that are using I guess I don't really know that <v Shari Tschida>much about it, but these wood burning stoves <v Shari Tschida>or something in their living rooms. <v Shari Tschida>We've known several couples out here who have spent a lot of time out chopping trees <v Shari Tschida>and burning the wood.
<v John Keller>One of the things we did, we put in a woodstove and <v John Keller>it heats our living room and the kitchen and the and the new room <v John Keller>and the bedrooms are cool, but they're still nice for sleeping. <v Speaker>How did your stove help you? <v John Keller>Oh, man. <v John Keller>?inaudible? Oh sure. Yeah, this was a really fairly cheap winter. <v Speaker>Did it pay itself off this year, or how- how long-. <v John Keller>I would think so. It was around five hundred dollars, you know, <v John Keller>to install a thing. And <v John Keller>I would think people almost saved that that's- wouldn't you? <v Speaker>Did you know what it was in February. Did we tell you? <v Speaker>No. <v Dorraine Keller>Twenty nine dollars. <v Speaker>For your- for your heating bill? <v Speaker>Can I ask you what it had been in February? <v Dorraine Keller>About one hundred and twenty, maybe one hundred and twenty five in February. <v Speaker>Yeah. And fuel has gone up too. <v Speaker>That's ok for you guys now. But what about the people that have to buy with it? <v John Keller>Yeah. I wouldn't lucky with it. <v Dorraine Keller>Then I wouldn't lucky with it Yeah.
<v Speaker>Unless you've got access to wood then you certainly wouldn't. <v Dorraine Keller>Chris, I think you can burn wood a lot [?: cheaper], you know. <v Dorraine Keller>Yeah. You can buy wood and heat your home for cheaper. <v John Keller>These guys who s-. <v Speaker>Buy it for their fireplace you know? and that's really exquisite. <v Speaker>?inaudible? Fireplaces aren't efficient anyway. <v Speaker>But I mean, if you buy it like [?: mugs] fireplace people buy their wood. <v Speaker>That's expensive. <v Shari Tschida>I just may be America's. No. <v Shari Tschida>You know what? We can do that, too, because all this these trees belong to us. <v Shari Tschida>And then when they're gone, what are we going to do? <v Shari Tschida>I guess I was only adding it because they conserve energy type thing that came out. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>It's difficult to see the way we have built suburbia that there's any easy answer <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>to lowering energy, perhaps in weatherstripping, caulking, insulating. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>But the car that is really the connection. <v Speaker>Jim Johnson's a pretty normal guy ordinarily. <v Speaker>But lately he's been acting very strange. <v Speaker>Mind seems to be a million miles away. <v Speaker>Mrs. Johnson and Julie are getting worried about him. <v Speaker>Last night, for example. He turned down a piece of his favorite pie.
<v Speaker>The other day, he even kicked that car. He's always been so proud of and there's <v Speaker>always writing figures of some kind on the backs of envelopes. <v Speaker>No, this isn't like Jim at all. <v Speaker>There must be something wrong. <v Speaker>That magazine he was looking at. Maybe that's a clue. <v Speaker>Yes, that's the answer. <v Speaker>Surprised you didn't guess, aren't you? <v Speaker>Well, there's only one thing to do. <v Speaker>Only one cure. And Mrs. Johnson is wise enough to know it. <v Speaker>She knows the only medicine for this condition in the American male is this. <v Speaker>The gleam of new chrome, the sparkle of new paint and that <v Speaker>wonderful perfume that only comes from a new car. <v Speaker>Yes, it's a familiar scene, one that's played every day all over America.
<v Speaker>And we're all better off because of it. <v Speaker>You see that beautiful new car. <v Speaker>And the way Johnson feels about it are the symbols of a constant desire for something <v Speaker>newer and better. That is typical of all the Johnson families across the nation. <v Speaker>And the competitive drive to satisfy that desire to build a better mousetrap <v Speaker>is the force that has made the American marketplace the most abundant in the world. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>I think marketing has been very effective at convincing people that more is <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>is more happiness and that if they consume twice as much, they would have twice as much <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>happiness. And marketing people have not necessarily <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>cared at all about energy. What they really cared about was sell, sell, sell. <v Tim Tschida>We don't realize it, but every commercial goes right to you psychologically. <v Tim Tschida>It may you may not think that it's going towards you. <v Tim Tschida>But it is. It's there and it's in the back of your mind. <v Tim Tschida>And the minute you see that thing, you want it.
<v Speaker>[commercial] <v Shari Tschida>You're talking about dreams. <v Shari Tschida>You know, if all of us said what our dream car was. <v Shari Tschida>well I'd love the Lincoln Continental, but <v Shari Tschida>I have to be realistic. I can dream. <v Shari Tschida>Nobody can take my dreams away. <v Dennis Rhoda>Well, we have our ideas of the car, we would like, you know, and stuff. <v Dennis Rhoda>We felt forced to buy was smaller than we would like to have, and <v Dennis Rhoda>that with a smaller engine than we cared to have. <v Dennis Rhoda>Just, you know, because of the gas situation and the price of gas. <v Speaker>Without hesitation, he said. <v Speaker>Fill it up. <v Speaker>And from that moment on, an indivisible bond was formed <v Speaker>between the American motorist and this great super premium gasoline.
<v Speaker>Try Chevron Supreme, a super octane fuel <v Speaker>for today's horsepower. <v Speaker>You know, this stuff is great. They ought to advertise it. <v Harry Truman>We are fast becoming a have not nation <v Harry Truman>with respect to many important minerals. <v Harry Truman>We are faced with the danger of a shortage of petroleum products. <v Harry Truman>The United States is now using more oil each day <v Harry Truman>than the entire world used before the war. <v Harry Truman>Shortages of fuel oil have already appeared in parts of the Midwest. <v Jimmy Carter>Gasoline consumption represents half of our total oil usage. <v Jimmy Carter>We simply must save gasoline. <v Jimmy Carter>And I believe that the American people can meet this challenge. <v Jimmy Carter>It's a matter of patriotism and a matter of commitment. <v Dorraine Keller>I don't think I can cut down anymore.
<v Dorraine Keller>Really, I don't. Because. <v John Keller>You don't go very much. <v Dorraine Keller>I just don't go that often to town, you know. <v John Keller>Well, we certainly try and keep the trips to a minimum. <v John Keller>We're- I don't think we didn't used to do that so much, you know. <v John Keller>You try and get more things done at the same time. <v John Keller>Dorraine gets her hair fixed or something, she also buys groceries the same day. <v Karen Rhodas>Yeah. We should give ourselves one tank of gas a week and then we do any more <v Karen Rhodas>running at all. Depends if we have any extra money. <v Karen Rhodas>But usually, one tank of gas, takes care of his working and then to store and stuff. <v Jimmy Carter>I ask each of you to take an important action on behalf <v Jimmy Carter>of our nation. <v Jimmy Carter>I ask you to drive 15 miles a week fewer <v Jimmy Carter>than you do now. <v Jimmy Carter>One way to do this is not to drive your own car to work every day <v Jimmy Carter>at least once a week. Take the bus, go by a carpool,
<v Jimmy Carter>or if you were close enough to home, walk. <v Ron Tschida>We have three people to travel into St. Paul area to work or school, <v Ron Tschida>and we have three cars going in that direction. <v Ron Tschida>A lot of times will double up if our schedules can possibly warrant it so that we <v Ron Tschida>get a couple of people driving in one car at least help save us some gasoline cost. <v Sherri Tschida>And I think another thing, even out here, some of us women have called each other and <v Sherri Tschida>said, are you going in? <v Sherri Tschida>Why don't we go together, you know, which is kind of nice. <v Sherri Tschida>Because it kind of goes back to the community thing where you pull together, you know. <v John Keller>Carpooling is something that we can't do because nobody <v John Keller>else is going the same place we are. <v John Keller>When you live in a country, you just have to figure you're gonna drive. <v John Keller>Quite often with kids and schools and stuff, except <v John Keller>that there's so many things that you just have to get. <v John Keller>Machinery parts and stuff like that.
<v John Keller>You just have to go get them. <v John Keller>And about half of our driving is chasing after <v John Keller>parts and feed and stuff. <v Dave>Now, what are you doing differently now than you did a year ago when there was no <v Dave>real big deal about this? <v John Keller>We were talking about this the other day Dave, and I don't think as far <v John Keller>as farming in a business, you <v John Keller>we never did waste any fuel. <v John Keller>I don't believe we wasted fuel. <v Dave>Well, what you're saying is that everything <v Dave>that that you've ever had to do was essential. <v Dave>You really get along without any less fuel. <v John Keller>The only thing you do is cut down and national production. <v John Keller>You know, I don't think the nation can afford to have us all cutting down even <v John Keller>a small percentage. <v John Keller>Of a crop here and in the whole country <v John Keller>would affect our our national being a lot.
<v Jimmy Carter>This is a painful step. <v Jimmy Carter>And I'll give it to you straight. <v Jimmy Carter>Each of us will have to use less oil. <v Jimmy Carter>And pay more for it. <v Karen Rhodas>Well, I think we're really going to get sold. Because we'd have to have two cars going. <v Karen Rhodas>Because we'll be working opposite shifts of each other. <v Karen Rhodas>So we have to have two cars and to keep gas in the two cars and maintain the upkeep. <v Karen Rhodas>So sometimes I wonder if it's even worth my while going back to work without knowing how <v Karen Rhodas>much money I'm going to be putting out for this other stuff. <v Dennis Rhoda>I would think it would hurt people, the restaurants and resorts <v Dennis Rhoda>and stuff, and eventually going to be taking its toll on everybody. <v John Keller>She's one of my sons is is in a business where tourism <v John Keller>is is the whole business. <v Dorraine Keller>He's dependent on it. <v John Keller>Yeah. <v Dorraine Keller>What will happen Dave, know if you can't get gas? <v Dave Keller>Well, our whole business depends on fuel. If we don't have any gas we don't have any <v Dave Keller>business. <v Speaker>If I want airplane, how much would that cost?
<v Speaker>Oh. Airplane gas. Well they... <v Speaker>We got a letter from the oil company we deal with and they. <v Speaker>They said. They said, [inaudible]. <v Dave Keller>No... <v Dave Keller>We got a letter from them and they were gonna give us 90 percent of our last year's <v Dave Keller>quantity. And last year was <v Dave Keller>about the fourth year that we had. <v Speaker>Well, good effective. <v Dave Keller>Yeah. But then we, the next week we got another letter that said that we <v Dave Keller>gonna get 80 percent. [?: Oh. really?] So. <v Dave Keller>We're not sure just what we're going to do yet. <v Speaker>Hey, you know, what I was just thinking, if these oil companies are so short on oil. <v Speaker>Why is it like a day when you were at May Kaito a couple of years and those guys <v Speaker>developed that Volkswagen that ran, you know, like two 100 miles to the gallon <v Speaker>of gas and all of a sudden, you know, they don't start making them, some oil company buys <v Speaker>up the deal on it and the idea that they don't ?inaudible?.
<v Speaker>Yeah, well, sure right there. <v Speaker>So it's a manufactured deal right there. <v Speaker>You can tell. [?: it's a whole monopoly] right [?: you know?] <v Speaker>It took her half a Volkswagen motor. wasn't it? <v Dave Keller>Yeah, they got. I don't know. They got 50 miles to a gallon in that. <v Dave Keller>But, you know, it's. I think, well, <v Dave Keller>if they had cars that have gotten 100 miles to the gallon, but, you know, <v Dave Keller>the there are so many people in big business that are against them that <v Dave Keller>it's hard to make anything like that work. <v John Keller>As far as I'm concerned if that is really true. <v John Keller>And that's really a traitor's act towards our country. <v John Keller>If we're running out of gas and we've got something that could save [?: well that's the <v John Keller>whole thing, aren't we selling in other countries. You know, gas can be- in barrels of <v John Keller>oil that we use i our country?] sure the Alaskan pipeline oil-. <v Speaker>That is, that these large corporations, they're not American run corporations, <v Speaker>they're nationwide. They're [?: in worldwide] corporations
<v Speaker>are playing with worldwide monopolies, not just the US. <v Speaker>We're just another another [?: trust.] We're just more consumers <v Speaker>to them. We're not- ?inaudible? <v Speaker>There's no patriotism between them and us. <v Speaker>[?: Not it's where they make the money] it's a question of economics with them. <v Ron Tschida>Myself, I think they'll probably get this thing settled within the next six months or so. <v Ron Tschida>You probably end up with higher, higher gas prices, but <v Ron Tschida>I don't think we'll see the. <v Ron Tschida>Five dollar limit in the ten gallon limit. <v Ron Tschida>Stuff like that. <v Ron Tschida>So somebody can afford to take a trip and pay for the gasoline it'll be there. <v Ross Bishop>It's not a question of supply. <v Ross Bishop>It's a question of what's it gonna cost us to get it. <v Ross Bishop>And I think that's the fundamental misunderstanding on the part of the public regarding <v Ross Bishop>the energy crisis. There's been a lot of hype. There has been a lot of shortage talk. <v Ross Bishop>I think that government people, some business people have used it to <v Ross Bishop>speak to individual needs and ends rather than the general societal interests.
<v Dr. William Duffy>So the oil companies, I think, will be viewed more and more as, you know, as <v Dr. William Duffy>in a very suspicious kind of way. <v Dr. William Duffy>I think the government, however, is the one that produces the biggest props for people <v Dr. William Duffy>because. There's your feeling tremendous feeling <v Dr. William Duffy>of being ineffectual. What can you do to penetrate that system and get it to work the <v Dr. William Duffy>way people say it's supposed to work for you? <v Ron Tschida>Bases of our government were under the understanding that they're supposed to prevent a <v Ron Tschida>lot of monopoly of business. <v Ron Tschida>And up to this point, the way the oil companies are going, I would say that Monopoly is <v Ron Tschida>getting out of hand because they're getting control of an awful lot of industries and <v Ron Tschida>taking the toll of an awful lot of people's lives. <v Dennis Rhoda>I hate to see governments stepping in on everything and stuff <v Dennis Rhoda>but if the price gets up too high or something's got to happen because. <v Dennis Rhoda>You can't- can't afford to buy the gas to go go to work, and you can have no money <v Dennis Rhoda>[Karen Rhoda: to live.] Coming in on. Yeah.
<v Ron Tschida>Important as those things are to everybody's daily living. <v Ron Tschida>So we're going to have to get together and invent, discover, <v Ron Tschida>come up with an answer. <v Ron Tschida>That can be as dangerous, I think, to the American people as <v Ron Tschida>some of our diseases are right now. <v Speaker>When I get older, I think there will be as much fuel and there won't be as many <v Speaker>conveniences like there was now. <v Speaker>How do you know? <v Speaker>You kinda depend on people to- oh <v Speaker>I don't know, people invent new ways so that maybe it won't affect you when you get <v Speaker>older, do you just think, well, I don't worry about it because they thought of something <v Speaker>later. Or do you think that later, maybe you really won't have anything? <v Speaker>Well-. <v Speaker>Maybe you won't be able to drive a car. <v Speaker>Maybe you will have to ride your bike all the time. <v Speaker>And by then they will have thought of something new. <v Speaker>Yea, I think they'll think of something.
<v Speaker>Well, Chances are they will, you know really [?: naturally financially in our society] <v Speaker>this uh... <v Speaker>It's always happened in my past, you know. <v Dennis Rhoda>Since they've come up with um. <v Dennis Rhoda>Stuff's been invented. <v Dennis Rhoda>like light bulb and everything's-. <v Dennis Rhoda>I would think something would come along and help. <v Dennis Rhoda>Seems like the American way. <v Dennis Rhoda>Get us out of jams, we've got out of jams before. <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>That's not the American way. The American way is that someone comes up with a great idea. <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>Sometimes it's a scientific invention and then creates a demand for it. <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>Light bulbs were not invented because it was a great crisis in <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>illumine night. <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>Light bulbs were the- very inventive mind. <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>And then an awful lot of thought and creativity and salesmanship <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>went into making a market for light bulbs. <v Speaker>And that's the real problem. That's the real crux of it, because I <v Speaker>think people are hoping, well, something will be taken care of in the very near future
<v Speaker>because look at everything that has happened already. <v Speaker>The major advances in science and technology and so on, so that somebody will take care <v Speaker>of it. We won't have to worry ten years from now. <v Speaker>But let's just worry about getting enough fuel today. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>In some ways, I get a little concerned because I, I believe that there's too <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>much stock placed in that there are readily available <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>alternatives to fossil fuels. And so we'll wait just a few years. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>We can ride this through and then it's all gonna turn out all right. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>Because after all, if you put somebody on the moon. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>Can't you really get all this going again? <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>And we can continue with our way of life. <v Sherri Tschida>I don't think they will come up with something. <v Sherri Tschida>I've almost come to the conclusion I think it's up to the time that the people gathered <v Sherri Tschida>together and said, hey, what are we going to do about <v Sherri Tschida>our problem? Because obviously, no one else cares. <v Karen Rhodas>We're going to have to start voicing our opinions. <v Karen Rhodas>We can't just sit in your house and complain. I think you have to get out, it's the only <v Karen Rhodas>way you're going to be heard. <v Karen Rhodas>I think if enough people get out sooner or later, something's gonna have to be done.
<v Anne Keller>I think that that's where we can have some some backing in that and not <v Anne Keller>let these issues die. That's right. <v Anne Keller>You know, because, like, we - senators just as well as the next guy. <v Speaker>Yeah, are you sure that they're gonna read the letters? <v Speaker>Nobody does. you know. We're-. <v Anne Keller>That's just what I mean. That there is things to do. <v Anne Keller>But does anybody ever do 'em? <v Speaker>Well, maybe when the lights all go out. <v Anne Keller>Well, that's what I mean. <v Speaker>As people start to experience more and more problems <v Speaker>that are really having a dramatic effect on their lives. <v Speaker>I think they'll be joined. Those groups will be joined together so that they will try <v Speaker>to do something hopefully positive to to change priorities <v Speaker>and to decrease the impact of the of the energy problems. <v Anne Keller>But don't you think that in a way that is good in a way, just like I was saying before, <v Anne Keller>if there's a crisis now, even if there's not if it's through the media, if it's if <v Anne Keller>we're all getting, you know, propaganda to death. <v Anne Keller>Eventually things are going to have to be done because all the oil and the gas is going
<v Anne Keller>to be gone and we're going to have to go to nuclear power or some solar <v Anne Keller>energy or something like that. <v Anne Keller>And as long as we have a scare now, maybe this will scare a bunch of people. <v Anne Keller>[?: Did it ?inaudible??] It's made me think a lot more about it. <v Anne Keller>More a lot more about conserving energy and everything. <v Anne Keller>And I think that before- before the first the crisis. <v Anne Keller>[?: Think or do?] <v Dave Keller>What do you do now? [?: Think about it. But what do we do?] That you didn't before the <v Dave Keller>energy crisis? <v Anne Keller>I think that it's affected my life because now I have to pay for rent. <v Anne Keller>I have to pay for utilities. <v Dave Keller>I don't think it's affected me at all. <v Dave Keller>I mean, no matter how much gas costs, I'm going to pay for it because I need it <v Dave Keller>and uh [?: you don't feel you waste any.] I don't feel I. <v Dave Keller>Well, I - there ways to say it, but <v Dave Keller>I just don't feel that. <v Dave Keller>I think I need I need my independence as a business man. <v Dave Keller>More than more than I.
<v Dave Keller>I need to stop using fuel. <v Ross Bishop>I don't think attitudes regarding the energy crisis make a significant difference <v Ross Bishop>regarding individual residential consumption. <v Ross Bishop>I think fundamentally it's an economic question how much my energy bills <v Ross Bishop>are going to affect what I do and what I can and can't do. <v Ross Bishop>I think that's where the bottom line is. <v Lisa Tschida>I look ahead and I think it's going to be harder because if it's like it is now, it's <v Lisa Tschida>going to be really bad when I do get older and decide to go on my <v Lisa Tschida>own and do what I want to do. <v Lisa Tschida>We have a lot of stuff that. <v Lisa Tschida>We have that we wouldn't really need and I think it'd be hard to give it all up <v Lisa Tschida>because we enjoy it all. <v Lisa Tschida>And not to have it would probably be, I don't know, kind of depressing. <v Karen Rhodas>It bothers me because I think I should be able to go when I want to go, if we want to get <v Karen Rhodas>out of the house, go someplace, we should be able to. <v Karen Rhodas>But you can't we we don't have the money. <v Karen Rhodas>We have to stay home. <v Ron Tschida>I think there's an awful lot of conflicts. I think that's why the problem exists, that
<v Ron Tschida>people do not know exactly what to think. <v Ron Tschida>Is it a factor? Isn't it a fact? Is somebody putting the wool over your eyes or anything? <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>To the extent that we continue to have this cyclic <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>description of what's happening with the energy in this country. <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>It's abundant for a few months that it's in short supply for a few months, then abundant <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>again. We are going to have a difficult time getting most people to take <v Dr. Maurice Mittelmark>it seriously. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>They've worked very hard climbing up that ladder. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>And now someone's going to say when they've got their foot on the third rung that the <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>fourth rung is not there is really a dirty trick and they're kicking and fighting <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>and they're blaming and that blaming behavior. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>They'll blame anybody. The present United States, they'll blame the oil companies. <v Dr. M. Janice Hogan>They'll blame the grocery store. Somebody's got to really be at fault. <v Shari Tschida>Well, I mean, who is supposed to step in? <v Shari Tschida>I myself don't know. I'd like to know as a democracy. <v Shari Tschida>I would like to know me, the people who's going to help me, that people when
<v Shari Tschida>I've given, you know, my tax and I've done my fair share. <v Shari Tschida>I've worked a lot of the time we've been married. <v Shari Tschida>And I'd like to know who's going to protect me now. <v Speaker>Who will indeed protect al? <v Speaker>A fair question in the welter of confusion. <v Speaker>But it runs deeper. <v Speaker>The frustrations are beyond merely sorting out the mix of commercial and public policy <v Speaker>messages. They go to the very heart of our existence, of the lifestyles <v Speaker>we have sought, perhaps attained and which now may be seriously threatened. <v Speaker>The economic realities are upon us, and we have learned to expect answers and solutions <v Speaker>from our scientists and political leaders. <v Speaker>Where are they? Can we wait for them as energy costs take their toll in our pocketbooks? <v Speaker>And what of our dreams? <v Karen Rhodas>I told myself after I got laid off that I would never go back to a factory again.
<v Karen Rhodas>I'm going to get an education, I'm going to learn a trade. <v Karen Rhodas>But then now I have to go back to factory. <v Karen Rhodas>That's where the money is, that's how everything has changed for us. <v Karen Rhodas>Everything that we had wanted. It is changing. <v Ron Tschida>And it's just leaves a big question in your mind, you know, are you going to be able to <v Ron Tschida>make use of these things that you worked all your life to acquire? <v Ron Tschida>And now that you've acquired them, is somebody going <v Ron Tschida>to stop you from enjoying. <v John Keller>Yeah, we've had a real good life as far as. <v John Keller>It's reaching goals. <v John Keller>We've, uh. Prospered. <v John Keller>No way I want to go back. <v John Keller>It's just too nice this way. <v Mable Olson>Oh, boy. When I retired, I was going to be sitting on top of the world. <v Mable Olson>And my children, we're going to have education. <v Mable Olson>And when we retired, we would be on Easy Street.
Program
Whose Crisis Is This?
Program
SD-Base
Producing Organization
KTCA-TV (Television station : Saint Paul, Minn.)
Contributing Organization
Twin Cities Public Television (St. Paul, Minnesota)
The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia (Athens, Georgia)
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cpb-aacip/77-78gf2v1c
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Episode Description
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Topics
Economics
Public Affairs
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Moving Image
Duration
00:57:45
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Credits
Producing Organization: KTCA-TV (Television station : Saint Paul, Minn.)
AAPB Contributor Holdings
Twin Cities Public Television (KTCA-TV)
Identifier: C-3035 (tpt Protrack Database)
Format: U-matic
Generation: Dub
Duration: 00:57:30?
The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia
Identifier: 79090dct-arch (Peabody Object Identifier)
Format: U-matic
Duration: 01:00:00
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Citations
Chicago: “Whose Crisis Is This?; SD-Base,” Twin Cities Public Television, The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed June 28, 2022, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-77-78gf2v1c.
MLA: “Whose Crisis Is This?; SD-Base.” Twin Cities Public Television, The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. June 28, 2022. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-77-78gf2v1c>.
APA: Whose Crisis Is This?; SD-Base. Boston, MA: Twin Cities Public Television, The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-77-78gf2v1c