New Mexico in Focus; 829; Albuquerque's Homeless Survey Week and On Location at Legislature

PARTIAL FUNDING FOR THE PRODUCTION OF NEW MEXICO InFOCUS PROVIDED BY THE McCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION. >> THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS ... LAWMAKERS IN SANTA FE PITCH THEIR PROPOSALS FOR BRINGING HI-TECH JOBS TO NEW MEXICO. >> THESE ARE THE COMPANIES THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE INVESTING IN, FINDING AT AN EARLY STAGE SO THAT WE KEEP THEM HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND PROVIDE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE FAMILIES HERE. >> AND WE LEARN HOW ORGANIZATIONS IN ALBUQUERQUE ARE WORKING TO ADDRESS HOMELESSNESS IN THE STATE'S LARGEST CITY. NEW MEXICO InFOCUS STARTS NOW. >> THERE IS A LOT GOING ON AT THE ROUNDHOUSE THIS WEEK AS LAWMAKERS MEET FOR THE CURRENT SIXTY DAY SESSION. THIS YEAR, NEW MEXICO PBS IS PARTNERING WITH KUNM AND NEW MEXICO IN-DEPTH ON SOME OF OUR COVERAGE OF THE LEGISLATURE. OUR PROJECT- PEOPLE, POWER AND DEMOCRACY - BRINGS YOU NEW INSIGHTS INTO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN SANTA FE. GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ WANTS LAWMAKERS TO INCREASE THE STATE'S CLOSING FUND. THAT FUND PROVIDES FINANCIAL INCENTIVES TO COMPANIES THAT AGREE TO RELOCATE HERE TO

NEW MEXICO. THE FUND IS CURRENTLY AT $15 MILLION, AND GOVERNOR MARTINEZ WANTS TO INCREASE THAT TO $50 MILLION. NOW, THIS PROPOSAL HAS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT, BUT OTHER STATES LIKE TEXAS AND ARIZONA HAVE MUCH LARGER CLOSING FUNDS, AND THERE ARE CONCERNS IN NEIGHBORING STATES THAT CLOSING FUNDS DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OVERSIGHT TO KEEP THEM FROM BECOMING SLUSH FUNDS. OUR CORRESPONDENT, GWYNETH DOLAND, CHECKED IN WITH LAWMAKERS THIS WEEK ABOUT THE CLOSING FUND PROPOSAL AND OTHER LEGISLATION LAWMAKERS SAY WOULD BOOST ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT HERE >> REPRESENTATIVE STEINBORN, THERE IS AN EFFORT DURING AMOUNT OF MONEY IN THE CLOSING FUND. DO YOU THINK THIS IS A GOOD WAY TO BRING NEW JOBS AND BUSINESSES TO NEW MEXICO? >> IT CAN BE, SOMETIMES. TO RECRUIT EMPLOYERS, YOU NEED SOME ABILITY TO CREATE SOME INFRASTRUCTURE, HELP PUT THE DEAL TOGETHER. SO I THINK IT CAN BE A GOOD IDEA. IT JUST HAS TO BE DONE IN A WAY THAT HAS TRANSPARENCY THAT MAKES SURE THAT WE'RE NOT WASTING MONEY ON VENTURES THAT WOULD BE

COMING HERE ANYWAY, OR THAT DON'T HAVE THE NECESSARY CLAWBACK PROVISIONS. IF A COMPANY COMES AND WE SPEND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO GET THEM HERE, AND THEN THEY TAKE OFF THE NEXT YEAR, WHAT ARE WE DOING TO GET SOME OF THAT MONEY BACK. AND SO IF WE DO THIS, AND I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR THAT, WE HAVE TO HAVE THOSE MECHANISMS IN PLACE, I THINK. >> DO WE HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO INCREASE THE CLOSING FUND? >> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. RIGHT NOW, IT'S A MOVING BUDGET PICTURE. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A REVISED ESTIMATE, BECAUSE WITH THE FALLING PRICE OF OIL AND HOW DEPENDENT OUR STATE BUDGET IS ON THAT, IF WE END UP HAVING A NEARLY FLAT BUDGET, WE MAY NOT HAVE ANY NEW MONEY TO DO THAT UNLESS WE CUT SOMETHING ELSE. SO RIGHT NOW, THIS IS A QUESTION MARK THAT WE'RE NOT REALLY GOING TO KNOW FOR A FEW MORE WEEKS, I THINK. >> REPRESENTATIVE EGOLF, YOU HAVE A PROPOSAL TO CREATE A SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT FUND FOR BUSINESSES HERE IN NEW MEXICO. HOW WOULD THAT PROCESS WORK FOR A BUSINESS OWNER? >> WELL, SMALL BUSINESSES ARE THE BIGGEST DRIVER OF JOB GROWTH IN NEW MEXICO, FACE IS ACCESS TO CAPITAL TO

EXPAND A FACILITY OR TO INVEST IN NEW EQUIPMENT. WHAT WE PLAN TO DO WITH THIS BILL IS OPEN UP A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE STATE'S PERMANENT FUNDS, WHICH ARE AMONG THE LARGEST PERMANENT FUNDS IN THE WORLD, SO THAT THE STATE CAN PARTNER WITH LOCALLY OWNED NEW MEXICO COMMUNITY BANKS THROUGHOUT THE STATE TO MAKE SMALL BUSINESS LOANS TO DESERVING AND WORTHWHILE BUSINESSES. THE IDEA IS SIMPLY THAT THE STATE WOULD PARTNER WITH THESE LOCAL BANKS TO HELP MAKE LOANS TO SMALL BUSINESSES, THE STATE WOULD GET A MARKET RATE RETURN ON ITS INVESTMENT, AS WOULD THE BANK, AND THEN A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER WOULD GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPAND AND HOPEFULLY HIRE MORE PEOPLE AND CREATE SOME JOBS. >> SO WHAT IS THE RISK TO THE PERMANENT FUND? >> WELL, WE WOULD INITIALLY TAKE BETWEEN $50 AND $100 MILLION AND SET THAT ASIDE AND MAKE IT AVAILABLE SO THAT IF A LOCALLY OWNED BANK APPROACHES THE STATE TO SAY, WE WILL PUT UP 51% OF

THE LOAN AND ASK THE STATE TO PUT UP 49%, SO THE RISK WOULD BE SHARED, THE LOAN WOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN EVALUATED BY THE LOCALLY OWNED BANK OR CREDIT UNION TO MAKE SURE IT MEETS THEIR UNDERWRITING STANDARDS, AND THEN THE STATE, BY THE BILL, WOULD ALSO DO THE SAME THING. SO WE WOULD HAVE OUR OWN UNDERWRITING ASSESSMENT TO MAKE SURE THERE IS SUFFICIENT CASH FLOW IN THE BUSINESS, THAT IT'S A WORTHWHILE ENDEAVOR. AND ONCE THOSE CRITERIA ARE MET, WE WOULD LEND AT MARKET RATES. SO THE INTEREST RATE THAT WOULD BE CHARGED BY THE LOCAL BANKS WOULD BE ROUGHLY THE SAME RATE CHARGED BY THE STATE. BUT THIS WILL HELP NOT JUST SMALL BUSINESSES, IT ALSO HELPS THE SMALL BANKS AROUND NEW MEXICO WHO ARE REALLY HAVING A HARD TIME COMPLYING WITH A WHOLE NEW RAFT OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS, CAPITAL REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE ESPECIALLY HARD ON THE SMALL BANKS WHO DO MOST OF THE LENDING IN OUR SMALL COMMUNITIES, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TEAMS OF ACCOUNTANTS AND LAWYERS LIKE

BANK OF AMERICA AND WELLS FARGO TO HELP THEM COMPLY WITH THE REGULATIONS. THIS WILL MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER FOR THEM TO SURVIVE AND TO HOPEFULLY THRIVE IN THEIR COMMUNITIES. >> SO THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM SOME OTHER ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS BECAUSE IT STARTS WITH THE BANK, THE LOCAL BANK, INSTEAD OF WITH A POLITICIAN? >> RIGHT. THE IDEA IS TO TAKE POLITICS OUT OF IT. THERE WOULD BE NO MECHANISM FOR A GOVERNOR OR A LEGISLATOR TO CALL THE SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT FUND AND SAY, GIVE A LOAN TO SO-AND-SO. INSTEAD, IT STARTS FROM THE BOTTOM UP. IT'S A BANK, AND THIS IS SPECIFIC IN THE LAW. IT STARTS WITH THE BANK CONTACTING THE DEVELOPMENT FUND TO ASK FOR ASSISTANCE IN MAKING THE LOAN SO THAT YOU'VE GOT -- AND ALSO BY MAKING SURE THAT THE STATE NEVER HAS MORE THAN 49% OF THE LOAN, YOU'RE ALWAYS MAKING SURE THAT THE LOCAL BANK IS TAKING A LITTLE BIT MORE RISK THAN THE STATE. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PUT ON THE LINE THEIR CAPITAL, THEIR MONEY, IF IT'S NOT A REAL GOOD LOAN WITH A REASONABLE LIKELIHOOD OF

BEING REPAID. SO BY SHARING THAT RISK AND BY HAVING IT BE BOTTOM UP, WE'RE GOING TO GO A LONG WAY TO MAKING SURE THIS IS A STRONG PROGRAM THAT WILL PRODUCE A GOOD RETURN FOR THE PERMANENT FUND, AND ALSO PRODUCE A GOOD JOB CREATION STIMULUS TO NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY. >> REPRESENTATIVE LARRANAGA, YOU'VE GOT A PROPOSAL THAT WOULD GIVE TAX DEDUCTIONS TO COMPANIES THAT BRING MORE HI-TECH MANUFACTURING INTO THE STATE. HOW WOULD THAT WORK? TO DO WITH THIS IS DO MANUFACTURING DIRECTED ENERGY AND SATELLITE PROJECTS THAT STAY IN NEW MEXICO. IN NEW MEXICO, WE DO ALL OF THE RESEARCH AND DO ALL THE TESTING FOR DIRECTED ENERGY AND SATELLITES AT WHITE SANDS AND IN OTHER AREAS IN NEW MEXICO. WHAT HAPPENS TO US IS, WE DO ALL OF THE ENGINEERING, WE DO ALL THE TESTING, AND THEN

THE MANUFACTURER OF THESE GOES OUTSIDE TO OTHER STATES THAT DON'T TAX THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY CONTRACTS. SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS TRYING TO MAKE US COMPETITIVE WITH ALL THOSE OTHER STATES. NOW, THE BIGGEST BUYER, OR THE BIGGEST CLIENT FOR THIS KIND OF WORK IS THE AIR FORCE RESEARCH LAB AT KIRTLAND AIR FORCE BASE. THEY HAVE A $700 MILLION CONTRACT, OR BUDGET THAT THEY DO THIS WORK. AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THAT WORK, THE MANUFACTURING, TO STAY IN NEW MEXICO, TO MAKE US COMPETITIVE. WE WANT HIGH TECHNOLOGY JOBS, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. >> BUT THIS WOULD NOT APPLY TO EXISTING CONTRACTS? >> IT WOULD NOT APPLY TO ANY EXISTING CONTRACTS. IT'S ONLY FOR NEW WORK THAT WOULD BE COMING BACK TO NEW MEXICO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF THE MANUFACTURING OF DIRECTED ENERGY AND SATELLITES. >> AND HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK THIS COULD COST?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT DEPENDS HOW BIG A CONTRACT WOULD BE OUT THERE FOR THE MANUFACTURING, BUT -- IT COSTS US IN TAXES, BUT IT WOULD PROVIDE US JOBS. AND IF WE DID A DYNAMIC SCORING, IN WHICH WE WOULD TAKE HOW MUCH PERSONAL INCOME TAX, CORPORATE INCOME TAX AND PROPERTY TAXES AND THE LIKE THAT WOULD COME BACK TO NEW MEXICO, NEW MEXICO WOULD BE A BIG WINNER WHEN IT COMES TO ALL OF THOSE TAXES TO REPLACE THE DEDUCTION OF THE GROSS RECEIPTS TAX THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT. >> REPRESENTATIVE TRUJILLO, YOU WANT TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF TECH JOBS IN NEW MEXICO. >> GWYNETH, THAT IS CORRECT. THIS IS HOUSE BILL 66. IT'S THE TECH COMMERCIALIZATION BILL. WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS, I'VE IDENTIFIED THAT WE DON'T DO A VERY GOOD JOB IN THE STATE, AS FAR AS PROVIDING OPPORTUNITY FOR CREATING OUR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND OUR NEW TECHNOLOGIES, THESE

IDEAS, WE DON'T DO A VERY GOOD JOB OF KEEPING THEM IN THE STATE. THESE IDEAS ALL GO TO CALIFORNIA. THEY ALL GO TO BOSTON. THEY ALL GO TO AUSTIN, TEXAS. AND WHAT'S LEFT BEHIND IS OUR OWN STUDENTS, OUR OWN CHILDREN WHO AREN'T LEFT WITH THE OPPORTUNITIES HERE, AND THUS WE EXPORT THEM OUT. SO THIS BILL IS AIMED AT CREATING AN ENVIRONMENT SO THAT WE CAN KEEP THESE JOBS HERE, WE CAN KEEP OUR LOCAL TALENT HERE, WE CAN PROVIDE SECURITY TO OUR FAMILIES HERE IN THIS STATE. >> WELL, HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE ARE ALREADY DOING IN THE STATE TO PROMOTES TECH JOBS? >> WHAT THIS BILL WILL DO IS, THERE ARE THREE LEGS TO A STOOL TO HELPING THESE NEW COMPANIES START UP IN THESE NEW TECHNOLOGIES. CURRENTLY WE HAVE THE IDEAS. WE HAVE AN ABUNDANCE OF IDEAS FROM OUR NATIONAL LABS, FROM OUR RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES. SO THE OTHER COUPLE LEGS THAT WE NEED OF THIS STOOL TO FORMULATE THESE COMPANIES AND KEEP THEM HERE, ONE OF THEM IS VENTURE CAPITAL. SO THIS BILL AIMS AT

PROVIDING THAT GAP FUNDING, THAT VENTURE CAPITAL FOR THESE BUSINESSES TO STAY HERE. WE STILL NEED TO FIND THE QUALIFIED MANAGEMENT THAT WILL HELP BRING THIS TO COMMERCIALIZATION. AND SO THE NEXT TASK WILL BE MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE IDENTIFYING THESE INDIVIDUALS AND TRAINING THEM IN THE STATE SO THAT WE CAN HAVE ALL THREE LEGS PUT TOGETHER. AND ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS TO PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES FOR OUR KIDS, AND JUST FOR EVERYBODY IN THE STATE. AND THESE TECH JOBS, THESE TECH JOBS THAT WE CREATE, THESE JOBS PAY ON AVERAGE A STARTING SALARY OF $68,000 AND UPWARD. >> THAT'S THE POTENTIAL. HOW MUCH WOULD YOUR PROPOSAL COST US? >> SO THIS PROPOSAL IS A LITTLE BIT INTERESTING, BECAUSE WE DON'T ASK FOR MONEY OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND. THIS PROPOSAL IS NOT A TAX INCREASE. WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM FOR THIS PROPOSAL IS IT COMES FROM THE SEVERANCE PERMANENT FUND, WHICH WE ARE ALREADY ALLOWED TO INVEST IN NEW TECHNOLOGY. SO IT TAKES ONE QUARTER OF ONE PERCENT OF THOSE DOLLARS, WHICH WILL CREATE A

FUND OF ABOUT $12 MILLION TO $14 MILLION. IT TAKES THE RESEARCH TECHNOLOGY COLLABORATIVE, WHICH IS A BOARD OF ELEVEN MEMBERS THAT ARE SCIENTISTS FROM OUR LABS, PROFESSORS FROM OUR UNIVERSITIES, AND FIVE OTHER MEMBERS THAT HAVE EXPERIENCE IN INVESTMENT BANKING, VENTURE CAPITAL AND BUSINESS. SO THIS ELEVEN MEMBER BOARD WILL VET THE IDEA AND MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS CLOSE TO COMMERCIALIZATION, AND IF THEY APPROVE IT, THEN THEY CAN NOW APPLY FOR THE MONIES THAT ARE NEEDED. AND THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO STILL KEEPS THE OWNERSHIP OF THAT EQUITY SHARE, SO AS THIS COMPANY GROWS AND THEY EXPAND AND THEY DECIDE THEY HAVE AN EXIT STRATEGY AND THEY WANT TO SELL OUT, THEN THAT EQUITY PLUS WHATEVER IT IS INCREASED BY RETURNS BACK TO THE FUND SO THAT WE CONTINUE TO REVOLVE THE DOORS AND FUND OTHER NEW IDEAS AND NEW COMPANIES. >> WHAT KIND OF TECHNOLOGY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE? >> BIOSENSORS IS HUGE MOVING FORWARD. NANO MATERIALS FOR SENSORS

THAT ARE GOING TO GO INTO INDIVIDUAL CELLS THAT WOULD BE USED WORLDWIDE. THE MARKETS ARE VERY, VERY BIG. WHY WE'RE NOT KEEPING THOSE IDEAS HERE IS WHAT THIS BILL IS AIMED AT. COMPUTER SCIENCE SECURITY. WE KNOW THAT COMPUTER PROGRAMMING, THERE'S ONE COMPANY HERE IN NEW MEXICO THAT HAS ALREADY STARTED UP AND HAS GROWN ALREADY TO I THINK $20 MILLION THIS COMING YEAR, AND THEY HAVE AN EXIT STRATEGY OF $80 MILLION. THESE ARE THE COMPANIES THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE ARE INVESTING IN, FINDING AT AN EARLY STAGE SO WE KEEP THEM HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND PROVIDE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE FAMILIES HERE. BECAUSE IN THE END, NEW MEXICO FAMILIES JUST WANT TO FEEL SECURE THAT THEY HAVE A GOOD JOB, THEY DON'T HAVE TO STRESS ABOUT MAKING THEIR MORTGAGE PAYMENT, AND THAT THEY CAN HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO COLLEGE.

THAT'S WHAT NEW MEXICO FAMILIES WANT. THIS IS WHAT THIS BILL AIMS TO GET TO, TO PROVIDE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES. >> WELCOME TO THE LINE HERE ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. SCHOOL BOARD ELECTIONS IN ALBUQUERQUE ARE COMING UP NEXT WEEK. THE NEW SCHOOL BOARD WILL OVERSEE A DISTRICT THAT FACES MANY CHALLENGES. STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT AND SCHOOL REFORM ARE A PRIORITY OF GOVERNOR MARTINEZ, CERTAINLY, AND THE DISTRICT IS SEARCHING FOR A NEW SUPERINTENDENT. NO SMALL THING THERE. LOCAL MEDIA ARE ALSO REPORTING ON ACCUSATIONS AGAINST ONE SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION. LET'S DIVE INTO THIS NOW FOR OUR LINE PANELISTS FOR THIS WEEK, THE FIRST ONE BEING DAN FOLEY, FORMER NEW MEXICO MINORITY HOUSE WHIP. RACHEL SAMS, SHE'S BACK. SHE'S EDITOR OF ALBUQUERQUE BUSINESS FIRST. SOPHIE MARTIN, AN ATTORNEY AND CO-PUBLISHER OF THE COMMUNITY WEBSITE, DukeCityFix.com. AND ROB NIKOLEWSKI OF WatchDog.org. NOW, ROB, IT'S ALWAYS A FUNNY THING WITH SCHOOL BOARD ELECTIONS. THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO COME UP WHEN NOBODY EVEN THINKS ABOUT IT. SUDDENLY THEY'RE ON TOP OF US, AND NOBODY KNOWS WHO'S RUNNING, THE WHOLE THING. >> RIGHT BEFORE WE STARTED TAPING TODAY, FOR ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE OUT THERE IN TV LAND, I TURNED TO GENE AND SAID, WHEN IS THIS ELECTION? >> YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THE ONLY ONE. BUT HERE IS WHAT HAPPENS.

WE HAVE TWO KEY THINGS KIND OF HOVERING OVER THE SCHOOL BOARD RIGHT NOW. WE'VE GOT RECENT STUFF BETWEEN ONE OF THE MEMBERS, KATHY KORTE, WHO'S BEEN AT LOGJAMS WITH OUR GOVERNOR ON A LOT OF REFORM THINGS, AND WE'VE GOT A SUPERINTENDENT SEARCH GOING ON AT THE SAME TIME. LET'S TAKE THESE THINGS ONE AT A TIME. HOW DO WE GET THIS SCHOOL BOARD TO WANT TO BE MORE NOTICED BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO GET INVOLVED WITH THE ELECTION, AND TWO, WHAT ARE THE STAKES AT PLAY HERE FOR THE SCHOOL BOARD THIS TIME AROUND? >> I'LL DO THE SECOND ONE FIRST, THE KATHY KORTE ISSUE. IT'S, WOW. THIS IS NEW MEXICO POLITICS AT ITS FIERCEST. I MEAN, SOMETHING'S COMING FROM ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. AS FAR AS WHAT -- IN AN IRONIC SORT OF WAY, TO ANSWER YOUR FIRST QUESTION, THERE'S BEEN SO MUCH ATTENTION ESPECIALLY AROUND MS. KORTE'S RE-ELECTION BID, IT HAS DRAWN A LOT OF ATTENTION TO THE SCHOOL BOARD RACE THAT I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULDN'T HAVE NOTICED BEFORE. >> RACHEL, GOOD TO SEE YOU. GETTING INTO THIS CATHY KORTE THING JUST A LITTLE

BIT, WHAT HAD HAPPENED MOST RECENTLY IN THE REPORTING IN THE JOURNAL IS THAT SHE RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THREE MEMBERS OF THE SCHOOL BOARD SAYING, LOOK, YOU DO NOT HANDLE DISCIPLINARY ISSUES. WE HAVE A GUIDE FOR THIS, IT'S RIGHT HERE IN BLACK AND WHITE, YOU GO THROUGH THE SUPERINTENDENT. YOU CAN'T FREELANCE. YOU CAN'T DO THAT KIND OF THING. WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO YOU ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE BOARD DYNAMICS? IS THERE ANYTHING IN YOUR GUT SPEAKING TO THIS? >> TO RISE TO THE LEVEL OF A LETTER SOUNDS LIKE THEY REALLY ARE TRYING TO STEP OUT ON IT. JUST IN GENERAL, IT SEEMS LIKE FOR THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS, OFF AND ON, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF FRONT PAGE STORIES ABOUT APS LEADERS AND SOME MEMBERS OF THE SCHOOL BOARD KIND OF SNIPING AT EACH OTHER, SNIPING AT OTHER PEOPLE, AND IT JUST SEEMS LIKE SUCH A DISTRACTION FROM THE HUGE JOB THAT THEY HAVE. SO NO MATTER HOW THIS ELECTION CYCLE TURNS OUT, HOPEFULLY AFTER IT'S OVER THINGS WILL CALM DOWN A LITTLE. >> EXACTLY RIGHT. DAN, GOOD TO SEE YOU. AND ON THE SAME SUBJECT OF KATHY KORTE AND OTHER SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS, AND THE FRACTIOUS NATURE OF RELATIONSHIPS, THAT'S NOT A SURPRISE. CERTAINLY ON SCHOOL BOARDS,

THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERENT OPINIONS, LOTS OF FRICTION. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE EXPECT SOMETHING TO COME OUT OF IT, DON'T WE? REALLY NOT. SCHOOL BOARDS USUALLY RUN FAIRLY SMOOTH. USUALLY THE ONLY TIME YOU HEAR OF A SCHOOL BOARD HAVING FRICTION IS WHEN THEY FIRE A SUPERINTENDENT. USUALLY MOST OF THE TIME THEY JUST KIND OF SHOW UP, THEY KIND OF DO THEIR THING, THEY MAKE SURE -- AND THE LEGISLATURE TOOK SOME ACTIONS A FEW YEARS AGO, IF YOU REMEMBER. THERE WAS A REAL PROBLEM IN NEW MEXICO WHERE SCHOOL BOARDS WERE DECIDING, THAT'S THE FOOTBALL COACH, THAT'S THE BASKETBALL COACH, AND WE ACTUALLY PASSED LEGISLATION THAT SAID, REALLY, IT'S AGAINST THE LAW TO DO THAT NOW. ALL YOU DO IS HIRE THE SUPERINTENDENT AND LET THEM DO THEIR JOB. SO, REALLY OUTSIDE OF APS, THE SCHOOL BOARDS HAVE REALLY KIND OF TAKEN A STEP BACK AND HIRED THE SUPERINTENDENT AND LET THEM RUN THEIR DEAL. THIS SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER IN PARTICULAR THAT'S UP FOR RE-ELECTION, SHE'S CRAZY. I DON'T KNOW A BETTER WAY TO SAY IT. I MEAN, SHE'S RUN A BLOG ATTACKING PEOPLE, BUT THE MINUTE SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT HER, SHE'S LIKE, OH, EVERYBODY'S ATTACKING ME. I MEAN, YOU CAN'T DO THE THINGS SHE HAS DONE. SHE SEEMS TO BE ACTING COMPLETELY OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDS OF RESPONSIBILITY TO THE BOARD. IF SHE DECIDES SHE WANTS TO DO SOMETHING, SHE GOES FORWARD. IF SHE WANTS TO GO AFTER A TEACHER, SHE WANTS TO HOLD A

PRESS CONFERENCE, SHE WANTS TO GO TO HER OWN KID'S SCHOOL AND BE INVOLVED IN HOW THEY'RE GOING TO RUN THE FUNDRAISING COMMITTEE, SHE DID THAT FOR A WHILE. I MEAN, SHE JUST KEEPS SURFACING. AND I THINK AT SOME POINT, SHE THINKS THAT SHE'S THE ROBIN HOOD OF THE APS SCHOOL BOARD, BUT I THINK YOU'RE SEEING FROM THIS LETTER THAT'S COMING OUT, I THINK EVERYBODY SAID ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, AND I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IN THE NEXT ELECTION, I THINK HER CONSTITUENTS ARE GOING TO TELL HER, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. >> INTERESTING. SOPHIE, I'M REMINDED THAT ON DAN'S LIST THERE, HE LEFT OFF THE FACT THAT SHE, I BELIEVE, TWEETED SOMETHING ABOUT A LEGISLATOR BEING A TRAITOR FOR A VOTE THAT WAS TAKEN. >> PAUL PACHECO, THAT'S >> I THINK THERE'S AN INTERESTING DYNAMIC TO SORT OF PICK UP ON WHAT DAN SAID THERE. THERE'S AN INTERESTING DYNAMIC THAT'S HAPPENING HERE. YES, TRADITIONALLY SCHOOL BOARDS HAVE BEEN -- I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'VE BEEN UNCONTENTIOUS, BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOME OF THAT PERSONAL DYNAMIC AND DIFFERENT OPINIONS ABOUT HOW THINGS SHOULD BE RUN. BUT NOTE THAT IN THE LAST, I

THINK PROBABLY AS FAR BACK AS THE LAST DECADE, POSSIBLY FURTHER, THIS STATE HAS IDENTIFIED, AND OUR CITIZENS HAVE IDENTIFIED EDUCATION AS ONE OF THE VERY TOP PRIORITIES AND ONE OF THE VERY TOP PROBLEMS IN NEW MEXICO. THIS IS THE SCHOOL BOARD FOR THE LARGEST DISTRICT IN THE STATE. THE PRESSURE HAS GOT TO BE PHENOMENAL. AND ESPECIALLY AT A TIME IN WHICH WE SEE THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND RANK-AND-FILE TEACHERS REALLY AT ODDS WITH EACH OTHER. HERE'S THE SCHOOL BOARD KIND OF CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF THIS WASN'T ONE OF THE MORE PRESSURED, ACTUALLY, PUBLIC POSITIONS THAT'S OUT THERE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF THE PHENOMENAL EMPHASIS THAT'S BEING PLACED ON EDUCATION RIGHT NOW, AND THE REAL FAILURE TO SEE TREMENDOUS SUCCESS, REAL MOVEMENT IN THE APS SYSTEM. >> SURE, ABSOLUTELY. RACHEL, THE OTHER DYNAMIC I WANT TO SPIN TO HERE IS THE SEARCH FOR THE NEW SUPERINTENDENT. >> DEFINITELY. >> I HAVE SOMETHING THAT I WANT TO THROW ON THE TABLE

FOR ALL OF YOU TO KIND OF CHEW ON HERE A LITTLE BIT. THE GIG IS LISTED AT $300,000, A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN WHAT WINSTON BROOKS WAS PAID. MY PROPOSITION IS, THAT MONEY IS SHORT BY ABOUT TWO-THIRDS, AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY. THIS PERSON IS EXPECTED TO RUN A DISTRICT OF 1200 SQUARE MILES, 150 SOME ODD SCHOOLS, 88,000 STUDENTS, AND A HEAD COUNT OF 14,000 PEOPLE. THERE ARE SOME INTERNATIONAL CONGLOMERATES THAT DON'T HAVE A HEADCOUNT THAT BIG, FOR GOSH SAKES. THIS IS LIKE RUNNING A NATION STATE OF ITS OWN. >> AND THEY HAVE THEIR OWN POLICE DEPARTMENT. >> THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING. I'M TELLING YOU, IF WE CAN PAY ITINERANT FOOTBALL COACHES $900,000, WHY CAN WE NOT PAY -- >> THANK YOU. >> -- A SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS WITH 88,000 KIDS? SCHOOLS WITH 88,000 KIDS? >> AND OUR EDUCATORS, IN GENERAL. THIS IS A CONSTANT SOURCE OF HEARTBURN. IT'S NOT JUST HOW MUCH WE'RE PAYING THE SUPERINTENDENT, BUT THE TRICKLE DOWN TO THE REST OF THE STAFF, TO THE REST OF THE TEACHING CORE. WE REALLY ARE, I THINK, UNDERPAYING ALL THROUGHOUT. >> ROB, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF

THAT? YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. >> RIGHT. >> WITH MIDDLING MONEY, WE'LL JUST HAVE A MIDDLING RESULT. >> I THINK YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT, ALTHOUGH I THINK IT'S AN APPLES AND ORANGES THING WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT FOOTBALL COACHES AND BASKETBALL COACHES, BECAUSE 20,000 PEOPLE AREN'T SHOWING UP IN THE PIT TO LISTEN TO A PROFESSOR GIVE A LECTURE. >> OR PAY $40,000 A YEAR FOR A BOX. >> RIGHT. BUT I DO SEE YOUR LARGER POINT, AND IT'S A GOOD POINT ABOUT THE PAY. WHAT I FOUND WAS INTERESTING WAS, IN DOING A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH BEFORE THIS, IS THAT ON THE APS WEBSITE, THEY SAID THEY'RE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WITH 'EXCELLENT PEOPLE SKILLS.' WELL, YEAH, I THINK CONSIDERING WHAT WE'VE ALL BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR THE LAST FIVE MINUTES, I THINK THAT'S THE UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE YEAR. >> I ROARED LAUGHING READING THOSE BULLET POINTS, THE EXPECTATIONS FOR THE JOB. >> YOU HAVE GREAT PEOPLE SKILLS, YOU SHOULD APPLY. YOU RUN A SHOW, YOU'VE GOT TO DEAL WITH ALL OF US. >> RIGHT. I'LL DO IT FOR FIVE. >> I THINK THE PROBLEM THOUGH, GENE, AND I ALWAYS TAKE SHOTS AT YOU ABOUT

THIS, YOU KNOW THAT, IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FOOTBALL COACH AND THE SUPERINTENDENT IS THE MARKET. I MEAN, IF YOU WANT TO GO GET THE BEST FOOTBALL -- >> WHY ARE WE LOOKING AT THE ENDS OF THE MARKETPLACE? >> BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT IS. >> WHY PLACE THE VALUE OF THE SUPERINTENDENT, SOMEONE RUNNING A 14,000 PEOPLE SITUATION -- THAT NEEDS TO BE VALUED, DAN. >> I'M NOT SAYING IT'S NOT VALUED, WHAT I'M SAYING TO YOU, THOUGH, IS THAT -- GENE, YOUR ANSWER IS, WE BELIEVE THE MARKET DICTATES THAT IT'S $300,000. >> RIGHT. >> WE BELIEVE THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET VERY WELL QUALIFIED CANDIDATES. THEY BELIEVE. YOU'RE SAYING, WELL, I DON'T THINK THAT'S TRUE, IT SHOULD BE AN $800,000 JOB. SOMEONE'S GOT TO PUT A VALUE ON THAT JOB. THEY PUT A VALUE OF $300,000. NOW, YOU'LL SEE WITH THE CANDIDATES THAT APPLY, IF THEY'RE ALL JUNIOR COLLEGE GRADUATES THAT ARE 24 YEARS OLD, THEN, YEAH, YOU'VE GOT TO RAISE THE VALUE OF THE JOB. BUT IF AT $300,000 THEY'RE GETTING WELL-TRAINED, WELL-QUALIFIED PEOPLE FOR THE JOB, THE JOB IS WHAT THE JOB IS. IT'S THE SAME AS THE EDUCATION PROFESSION. SHOULD TEACHERS MAKE MORE? NO DOUBT. >> BECAUSE WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, THE JOB IS, HOWEVER, ALSO DAN, THIS PERSON IS GOING TO BE

EXPECTED TO LITERALLY TURN AROUND AN ENTIRE SCHOOL SYSTEM AND CATAPULT IT INTO THE FUTURE, AND I JUST DON'T THINK $300,000 -- >> GENE, $300,000 IS NOTHING TO SHAKE A STICK AT. >> DAN, I USED TO WORK WITH SALES PEOPLE WHO MADE THREE BILLS GETTING OUT OF BED. I MEAN, IT'S JUST NOT A LOT OF MONEY IN 2015. >> THEY MAKE THREE BILLS BECAUSE THEY WORK HARD. THIS PERSON CAN COME IN AND MAKE 300, THIS PERSON CAN TURN THIS -- THINK ABOUT WHAT COULD HAPPEN. YOU COME INTO APS, AS BIG AS YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT, AND YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU TURN THIS AROUND, GUESS WHO'S SITTING OUT THERE LOOKING AT YOU RIGHT NOW? McDONALD'S JUST LET THEIR CEO GO. SO NOW YOU START TALKING TO THEM, HEY, I CAME INTO EXACTLY EVERYTHING YOU DESCRIBED, I TAKE THAT $300,000 JOB, AND IN THREE YEARS THIS TURNS AROUND, AND McDONALD'S IS LOOKING FOR A NEW CEO, GUESS WHAT? YOU'RE NOT MAKING $300,000 TO BE THE CEO OF McDONALD'S. >> WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ALBUQUERQUE, THOUGH, THEN? FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THAT'S A SLIGHTLY INSANE JOB TRAJECTORY, BUT BEYOND THAT, WE ACTUALLY NEED THE STABILITY THAT COMES WITH A LEADER WHO CAN CONTINUE TO WORK WITH US, AND I THINK THE INCOME MAY BE AN ISSUE. >> I'D LOVE TO HANG A NUMBER OUT THERE AND SEE WHO SHOWS

UP, HONESTLY. >> THEY DID; 300. LET'S SEE WHO SHOWS UP. >> THAT'S NOT A NUMBER. THIS IS 2015. >> WHAT DID YOU THINK THE NUMBER IS? >> I THINK IT'S NO LESS THAN FIVE, AND THIS IS IN THE BACK OF MY HEAD. GIVEN WHAT THIS PERSON IS SUPPOSED TO DO, I DON'T SEE WHO WOULD BE ATTRACTED TO IT FOR $300,000. >> I WOULD JUST SAY THIS. HOW ABOUT MAKING THEM AN AT WILL EMPLOYEE SO WE DON'T HAVE TO PAY THEM $350,000 FOR THEM TO LEAVE LIKE WE DID. >> AND SEAL UP THEIR PERFORMANCE IN A VAULT, EVEN BETTER. WE'LL STOP THERE. UP NEXT, WE'LL LEARN WHAT'S BEING DONE TO ADDRESS HOMELESSNESS HERE IN >> I HAVE A VERY HARD TIME SAYING, YES, YOUR ATHLETIC DIRECTOR IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PUBLIC'S RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITHIN YOUR SCHOOL, AND I ALSO FEEL THAT THERE ARE PROBABLY WAYS THAT NMSU CAN MANAGE THAT HIRING SO THAT THE NAMES >> THIS WEEK, VOLUNTEERS IN ALBUQUERQUE WERE OUT ON THE STREETS COUNTING HOMELESS PEOPLE.

NOW, THIS IS A WEEK LONG SURVEY THAT HAPPENS EVERY TWO YEARS HERE IN NEW MEXICO'S LARGEST CITY, AND LATER WE'LL HEAR HOW LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS ARE WORKING TOGETHER TO GET PEOPLE OFF THE STREETS AND INTO STABLE HOUSING. BUT FIRST, WE GO TO THE ALBUQUERQUE RESCUE MISSION. THE DOWNTOWN ORGANIZATION HAS BEEN AROUND FOR OVER 60 YEARS. PASTOR JOHN HILL SAYS THEY SERVE THOSE WHO ARE HOMELESS AND INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE BARELY GETTING BY AND HAVE LOST HOPE. >> WHEN PEOPLE COME HERE, THEY ARE AT A CRISIS STATE. IT'S KIND OF DEMEANING, TOO, TRYING TO GET THINGS FREE, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN GIVEN AWAY. IT'S JUST A DEMEANING THING TO BE IN. AND I BELIEVE THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE VERY PROUD OF THEIR LIFE'S ACCOMPLISHMENT, AND WE TAKE THAT SERIOUS. THAT'S WHY WE REALLY FOCUS ON THEM GETTING UP ON THEIR FEET. BUT OVER THE YEARS, AS I'VE NOTICED THE NUMBERS CHANGE IN OUR SERVICE COMPONENTS AND HOW MANY WE SERVE, IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, EXACTLY, THERE'S BEEN QUITE AN INCREASE IN HOMELESSNESS AMONG WOMEN AND WOMEN WITH

CHILDREN. IN LIGHT OF THAT, WE HAVE CHOSEN TO EXPAND UPON THAT SECTION OF OUR POPULATION AND INCREASE WOMEN. SO WE'RE INTENDING TO INCREASE OUR WOMEN TO SIXTY WOMEN, AND THEN ANOTHER TEN FAMILIES WITH WOMEN, AND WOMEN WITH CHILDREN. WOMEN ARE NURTURERS BY NATURE, AND JUST BEING ABLE TO PROTECT THEIR CHILDREN AND MAKE SURE THE CHILDREN ARE SAFE IS A VERY STRONG HUMAN DRIVE. I KNOW THAT THE WOMEN THAT ARE SINGLE, WHEN THEY COME TO ME, THEY TALK ABOUT THE FEARS AND THE CHALLENGES THAT THEY HAVE IN TRYING TO BE SAFE OVER THE NIGHT, PREVENTING BEING RAPED NUMEROUS TIMES, AND JUST ABUSE IN WAYS. SO THERE ARE CHALLENGES THAT THE WOMEN HAVE. BUT I THINK BASICALLY THE CHALLENGE FOR THE WOMEN WITH THE CHILDREN IS PROVIDING SAFETY AND FEELING SECURE WITH THEIR CHILDREN. WE BELIEVE THAT OUR PURPOSE IS TO FORM A CAMPUS FOR THE PURPOSE OF BRINGING PEOPLE

TO WHOLENESS IN THEIR LIFE AS BELIEVERS IN CHRIST AND AS BELIEVERS IN THEMSELVES AS HUMAN BEINGS. THE OUTLINE THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT COVERS THE PROPERTY ON COAL AND 2nd AND 3rd AND IRON, AND IT HELPS THE POSSIBILITIES OF A FUTURE THAT WILL ENCOMPASS AT SOME POINT OVER 200 PEOPLE, IS THE OVERALL OBJECTIVE. AND THIS CAMPUS IS TO ACCOMMODATE THE RESTORATION OF INDIVIDUALS. MEN AND WOMEN, AND WOMEN WITH CHILDREN. I THINK THE PROBLEM OF HOMELESSNESS CAN BE SOLVED, BUT IT'S GOING TO TAKE A COMMUNITY THAT IS UNIFIED FOR THAT PURPOSE. AND THAT COMMUNITY IS MADE UP OF BUSINESSES, THE CITY, CHURCHES, AND JUST REGULAR CITIZENS. IF WE ALL REALLY UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT ALL OF US ARE PART OF -- BECAUSE THE REALITY IS, IT COULD BE ANY ONE OF US. I USED TO THINK THAT WE WERE LIVING FROM PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK, BUT THE IDEA OF THE REALITY OF DRUGS AND

ALCOHOL AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, IT CAN PROPEL ANY OF US AT ANY MOMENT INTO THIS WORLD WE CALL HOMELESSNESS. SO I THINK THAT IF WE HAD A PLACE -- AND I'M ACTUALLY STILL IN AWE OF THE FACT THAT WE, THE CITY, A METROPOLITAN AREA OF THIS SIZE, DO NOT HAVE A YEAR-ROUND SHELTER. IT'S BEEN IN MY HEART FOR THE LAST NINE YEARS THAT AT SOME POINT, SOMEWHERE, WE AS A COMMUNITY, AS A WHOLE, SHOULD BE ABLE TO COME TOGETHER AND HAVE SOMETHING WHERE WE CAN LOOK AFTER OUR HOMELESS POPULATION. I CAN'T EVEN TELL YOU THE NUMEROUS TIMES THAT PEOPLE HAVE COME THROUGH, AND I'VE WALKED THROUGH WITH THEM,

AND THEY WOULD SEE THE SITUATION, AND AS I'M WALKING I FIND THEM BACKING UP OR BEING FURTHER FROM ME, AND I LOOK AROUND AND THEY'RE STANDING THERE IN TEARS. AND I SAY, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM? PASTOR, I DIDN'T KNOW THIS WAS HAPPENING. BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW. WE JUST DON'T KNOW. YOU KNOW, IN THE INTEREST OF BRANDING AND PEOPLE NOT KNOWING, THE OTHER DAY WE WERE AT THE RESTAURANT, AND WE WERE THINKING ABOUT HOW TO RE-BRAND OURSELVES AS A RESCUE MISSION, BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN GETTING CALLS ABOUT -- PEOPLE DON'T KNOW. OVER 60 YEARS OF EXISTENCE HERE, AND THEY STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHO THE ALBUQUERQUE RESCUE MISSION IS. SO WE DECIDED TO ASK THE LADY BEHIND THE COUNTER, HAVE YOU HEARD OF THE ALBUQUERQUE RESCUE MISSION? AND SHE SAYS, YEAH. WE SAID, WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THEM, WHAT DO THEY DO? AND SHE SAID, OH, I THINK THEY TAKE CARE OF ANIMALS. NOW, I CAN'T EVEN TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES WE GET THAT CALL. IS THIS THE PLACE WHERE THEY LOOK AFTER ANIMALS? AND SO THIS IS ABOUT THE

FACT THAT THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE DOES NOT KNOW, OR IS NOT AWARE OF THE ALBUQUERQUE RESCUE MISSION'S PRIMARY FOCUS, SERVING PEOPLE. IT IS A KNOWN FACT THAT OUR COMMUNITY AT LARGE STILL HAS A VAST DISCONNECT FROM THE PLIGHT OF THE HOMELESS. >> HI, SON. HOW GOES IT? >> IT GOES WELL, THANK YOU. >> ALL RIGHT, ALL RIGHT. >> OUR PROGRAM IS POSITIONED WHERE WE JUST WANT THE PERSON TO HAVE ONLY ONE THING, AND THAT IS A DESIRE TO CHANGE. THAT'S ALL. AND IF YOU HAVE AN OPEN MIND, IF YOU'RE TIRED OF THIS LIFE AND YOU WANT TO DO IT DIFFERENTLY, THEN YOU'RE OPEN TO WHATEVER COMES YOUR WAY AT THAT POINT. THOUGH WE ARE A MINISTRY AND A CHURCH, WE DON'T FORCE ANYTHING ON ANYBODY. IT IS THEIR CHOICE. WE JUST ASK THAT THEY BE OPEN-MINDED. THE REALITY IS, WE KNOW THEY CAN'T CHANGE WITHOUT CHRIST, ANYWAY. BUT WE DON'T FORCE THAT ON THEM. WE LET THEM COME, HEAR, AND IF THEY ARE OF A MIND TO

RECEIVE, THEY RECEIVE. BUT THE CHOICE BECOMES THEIRS. WE JUST WANT TO KNOW, ARE YOU WILLING TO CHANGE? ARE YOU REALLY WILLING TO WORK TOWARD A CHANGE, A DIFFERENCE IN YOUR LIFE? >> THE ALBUQUERQUE RESCUE MISSION WORKS WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE FACING MANY CHALLENGES, INCLUDING HOMELESSNESS. IT'S ONE OF THE MANY ORGANIZATIONS IN ALBUQUERQUE DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE. WE INVITED SOME OTHER LOCAL LEADERS TO JOIN US TO DISCUSS THE BROADER EFFORT TO END HOMELESSNESS IN THE CITY. DENNIS PLUMMER IS THE CEO OF HEADING HOME. JOHN AMES IS COMMUNITY HOUSING DIRECTOR WITH THE SUPPORTIVE HOUSING COALITION. AND JENNIFER METZLER IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF ALBUQUERQUE HEALTH CARE FOR THE HOMELESS. THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> RIGHT NOW, VOLUNTEERS IN ALBUQUERQUE ARE OUT COUNTING PEOPLE WHO ARE HOMELESS. DENNIS, WHAT DO YOU THINK WE'LL SEE WHEN THE FINAL NUMBERS ARE TALLIED? >> WELL, OBVIOUSLY WE HOPE THIS DATA IS SO CRITICAL, AND SO THE HUGE AMOUNT OF VOLUNTEERS COMING TOGETHER HAVE MADE IT POSSIBLE. WE'VE DONE TWO MORNING OUTREACHES AT 4:00 A.M. WE'RE DOING SITE VISITS TO

ALL OF THE SHELTERS. THE LUNCH LINES, AS WELL. AND AT THE END, WHAT WE REALLY WANT IS TO HAVE MADE VISIBLE THOSE WHO ARE INVISIBLE, SO THAT WE HAVE NAMES AND WE KNOW THEIR STORIES, AND WE CAN REALLY ALIGN OUR RESOURCES TO THE MOST CRITICAL. >> BUT THERE ARE SOME LIMITATIONS TO DOING A SURVEY LIKE THIS. JENNIFER, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT AREN'T COUNTED, OR THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T SEE FROM A SURVEY? >> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NUMBERS, IT HELPS US ALLOCATE RESOURCES AND RESPOND, BUT A PARTIAL COUNT THAT DOESN'T CAPTURE EVERYONE MEANS THAT WE COME UP WITH PARTIAL SOLUTIONS, AND WE REALLY WANT TO END HOMELESSNESS. SO RECOGNIZING WHAT IT IS AND ITS VALUE, AND WHAT IT ISN'T, THAT IT DOESN'T INCLUDE PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE MOVING HOUSE TO HOUSE COUCH SURFING, YOUNG PEOPLE AROUND THE UNIVERSITY THAT MIGHT BE IN SQUATS OR BUILDINGS WHERE THEY DON'T WANT US TO FIND THEM. MANY PEOPLE THAT WE DON'T SEE WHO ARE DOUBLED UP IN PRECARIOUS HOUSING THAT WE JUST DON'T PUT OUR HANDS ON IN THAT ONE POINT IN TIME. SO I THINK RECOGNIZING THE VALUE OF THAT, AND ALSO HOW IT LIMITS US IS REALLY IMPORTANT. >> ALBUQUERQUE HEALTH CARE

FOR THE HOMELESS HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 20 YEARS. WHAT'S DIFFERENT NOW IN THE FOLKS THAT YOU'RE SEEING OR EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS VERSUS WHEN THE ORGANIZATION FIRST STARTED? >> I THINK IT'S PRETTY MUCH THE SAME. WE STILL SEE A REAL DIVERSE GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH HEALTH CARE NEEDS. I THINK WHAT'S DIFFERENT ABOUT HOW WE APPROACH THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF HOMELESSNESS AS IT RELATES TO HEALTH CARE AND WORKING WITH OTHERS IS THAT WE'VE BECOME, IN THE LAST 30 YEARS, VERY INSTITUTIONALIZED, WHICH IS THE GOOD NEWS AND THE BAD NEWS. WE DIDN'T THINK IN OUR MOVEMENT THAT THIS MODEL WOULD BE NECESSARY BECAUSE WE THOUGHT WE WOULD END HOMELESSNESS AND PEOPLE WOULDN'T NEED A SEPARATE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. THEY WOULD BE HOUSED AND WE WOULD ADDRESS THEM IN A MORE MAINSTREAM WAY. I THINK WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT UNTIL WE END HOMELESSNESS, WHICH WE BELIEVE WE CAN DO. WE BELIEVE WE CREATED IT. OUR CHOICE AS A COMMUNITY CAN END IT. BUT WE'RE GOING TO DO IT REALLY WELL WITH HIGH QUALITY CARE. SO I THINK WE'VE BECOME A VERY HIGH QUALITY ORGANIZATION RESPONDING TO NEEDS THAT HAVE BEEN GROWING, AND I THINK WE DO THAT REALLY WELL AND STILL TRY TO END IT, BUT IT'S SORT OF SAD, AS WELL AS IT'S SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE. SOMETHING THAT WE ALSO HAVE LEARNED IS, COMMUNITIES ARE GETTING BETTER AT KEEPING

PEOPLE ALIVE. HOMELESSNESS WILL KILL YOU. THERE'S HIGH RISK OF MORTALITY AND MORBIDITY, AND LOWER LIFE EXPECTANCY FOR PEOPLE WHO EXPERIENCE IT FOR LONG PERIODS. SO WE HAVE A LOT OF DATA NOW NATION WIDE, BUT WHAT WE'RE LEARNING ACROSS THE COUNTRY FROM STUDIES OUT OF BOSTON AND ELSEWHERE WITH MORE CUMULATIVE DATA IS THAT NOT ONLY ARE THERE ACUTE CONDITIONS THAT RESULT FROM OR LEAD TO HOMELESSNESS, BUT REALLY CHRONIC CONDITIONS AS WELL. SO PEOPLE LIVE LONGER, THEY START TO REFLECT MORE THE GENERAL POPULATION, AND IT JUST BECOMES MORE COMPLEX, MULTIPLE, ACUTE, SEVERE, AND IT'S VERY CHALLENGING. MEDICAID IS A GOOD THING THAT'S GOING TO HELP US TO ADDRESS MORE OF THAT. >> ABSOLUTELY. JOHN, PASTOR HILL FROM THE ALBUQUERQUE RESCUE MISSION MENTIONED THAT THEY'RE SEEING AT HIS ORGANIZATION MORE WOMEN, AND MORE WOMEN AND CHILDREN NOW THAN IN PAST YEARS. THAT'S SHIFTING A BIT FOR THEM. WHAT CHANGES HAVE YOU SEEN IN THE YEARS THAT YOU'VE WORKED ON HOMELESSNESS IN THE TYPES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERIENCING THIS? THAT THE HOMELESS INDIVIDUAL MAY HAVE BECOME THAT INDIVIDUAL WHO WE THINK OF AS MORE MAINSTREAM. IT'S NOT THE HOBO ON THE STREET, OR SOMEBODY WHO LOOKS RATHER DIRTY, AND EVEN

CARRYING A PLACARD ON THE INTERSTATE CORNER. IT'S REALLY OUR PEOPLE THAT ARE WORKING TO SOME EXTENT. THE CHILDREN, MANY CHILDREN, ARE IN SCHOOL AND ARE REALLY BOUNCING AROUND FROM PLACE TO PLACE. VERY UNSTABLE, UNSETTLED. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO CLASSIFY WHO HOMELESS PEOPLE ARE, BUT CERTAINLY THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE TELLS ME THAT THE POPULATION IS BROADER EVEN THAN THE COUNT WE'RE ABLE TO DO THIS WEEK, AND THAT HOMELESS PEOPLE OFTEN TRY TO DISAPPEAR FOR SAFETY REASONS, AND OF COURSE FOR THE REASON OF STIGMA. >> AND ALSO, I THINK WE'VE SEEN A DECREASE IN TWO POPULATIONS, VETERAN HOMELESSNESS AND CHRONIC HOMELESSNESS, BUT AN INCREASE IN WOMEN AND CHILDREN, OR FAMILIES. AND THERE ARE A LOT OF REASONS FOR THAT, BUT I THINK SPECIFICALLY THE REASON FOR THE DECREASE IS A NATIONWIDE AS WELL AS A

LOCAL FOCUS TO REDUCE VETERAN AND CHRONIC HOMELESSNESS. SO IT TELLS ME AND ENCOURAGES ME THAT IF WE PUT OUR EFFORTS TOGETHER, WE CAN ACHIEVE THAT. NOW WE NEED TO BE VERY AWARE OF FAMILIES AND WOMEN AND CHILDREN. >> AND ORGANIZATIONS IN ALBUQUERQUE ARE COMING TOGETHER AND WORKING TOGETHER TO BRING A LOT OF SERVICES TO THESE PEOPLE. HOW IS THAT WORKING WITH HEADING HOME? >> WITH HEADING HOME, WE'RE A BACKBONE ORGANIZATION TO A MUCH WIDER COLLABORATION THAT INCLUDES THE SUPPORT OF HOUSING COALITION, HEALTH CARE FOR THE HOMELESS, ST. MARTIN'S. ALL OF OUR AGENCIES COME ACTUALLY, TO CASE MANAGE THE FOLKS THAT WE'RE HOUSING TOGETHER. WE'RE PRIORITIZING MEDICALLY VULNERABLE, CHRONICALLY HOMELESS, AND WE'VE HOUSED OVER 430, COUNTING THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS. TO ME, IT'S BEEN AN EXCITING TIME, JUST TO SEE US ALL COME TOGETHER AND PUT OUR RESOURCES IN A VERY TARGETED FOCUSED WAY. IT'S BASED ON STANFORD UNIVERSITY COLLECTIVE IMPACT MODELS, SO WE KNOW THE MODELS WORK WHEN WE PUT OUR MINDS TO IT, AND IT'S A GREAT COLLABORATION.

>> HOW DO WE DEFINE CHRONIC HOMELESSNESS? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? >> YOU GUYS CAN HELP ME OUT. I KNOW IT'S MORE THAN ONE YEAR, OR THREE TO FOUR INSTANCES WITHIN TWO YEARS. >> JOHN? >> IT'S ACTUALLY FOUR INSTANCES OF HOMELESSNESS IN THREE YEARS, AND THE EPISODES HAVE TO ADD UP TO 12 MONTHS. OR, OF COURSE, IT CAN BE 12 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS. THE PROBLEM WITH CHRONIC HOMELESSNESS IS THAT IT DOES ELIMINATE, I THINK, HUGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE HOMELESS WHO MAYBE HAVE JUST LOST A JOB, AND OF COURSE, PEOPLE LIVE FROM PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK TODAY IN MOST CASES. SO WE STRUGGLE WITH THE DEFINITION AND HOW TO DO THE WORK THAT WE DO WITHOUT LIMITING OURSELVES JUST TO THIS POPULATION THAT CERTAINLY NEEDS HOUSING, BUT THERE ARE MANY OTHERS WHO NEED HOUSING AS WELL. >> YOU ASKED EARLIER WHAT WE HOPE TO FIND THIS WEEK.

HOPE TO FIND THIS WEEK. ONE THING THAT I'M PERSONALLY HOPING TO FIND IS THE NUMBER IN THAT SMALL DEFINITION OF CHRONIC HOMELESS, MEDICALLY VULNERABLE WILL BE SUCH THAT WE'RE NO LONGER COUNTING HOW MANY WE HAVE HOUSED, BUT HOW MANY WE HAVE LEFT TO HOUSE. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT NUMBER BE DWINDLING SO THAT THEN THE RESOURCES OPEN UP WIDELY TO THE WHOLE COMMUNITY. >> CAN I JUST TAG ONTO THAT? I THINK A LITTLE TO JOHN'S POINT AND TO DENNIS', IT HAS BEEN A GREAT SEVERAL YEARS WITH A LOT OF POLITICAL AND COMMUNITY WILL, AND A GROUP OF SERVICE PROVIDERS AND ADVOCATES REALLY WILLING TO COME TOGETHER AND SAY, OKAY, THAT WASN'T WORKING, SO WHAT MODELS ARE THERE OUT THERE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WHAT'S TRENDING, WHAT ARE THEY WORK IN ALBUQUERQUE. I THINK THAT THE CONVERSATIONS AROUND DEFINITIONS AND AROUND BEST APPROACHES AND ABOUT PHILOSOPHY AND MODELS ARE THE HARDEST CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE, AND SO THERE IS A HUGE VALUE IN THE IMPACT WE CAN HAVE IF WE ARE WILLING TO COME TOGETHER AND RE-LEARN ALL OF OUR OLD STRUCTURES AND SYSTEMS AND APPROACHES, ON THE ONE HAND. I THINK, ALSO, HEALTH CARE FOR THE HOMELESS REQUIRES A COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS MOVEMENT, AND WE ARE WHAT

THEY CALL A SPECIAL POPULATION, BECAUSE WE ARE FOCUSED ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF HOMELESSNESS EXCLUSIVELY. HOMELESSNESS IS A CONSTRUCT. IT IS AN EXTREME VERSION OF POVERTY. IT'S NO DIFFERENT. IT'S VERY EXACERBATED. IT'S SORT OF UNDER THE SAFETY NET, WHEN PEOPLE HAVE FALLEN ALL THE WAY THROUGH. SOMETIMES SOMEONE IS HOMELESS FOR A DAY, NOT THE NEXT DAY, NOT THE NEXT WEEK, AND THEN HOMELESS AGAIN. SO IT'S AN EXPERIENCE THAT PEOPLE HAVE, IT'S A CIRCUMSTANCE THEY FIND THEMSELVES IN. WE DISTINGUISH IT NECESSARILY AS A CATEGORY AND DEFINE IT, SO THAT WE PAY ATTENTION TO IT, BUT REALLY IT'S SORT OF A NECESSARY SPECIAL -- WE'RE SPECIAL, BUT NOT THAT SPECIAL. WE'RE NECESSARILY CATEGORICAL, AND WE'RE LEARNING TO DO THIS THROUGH THESE ALIGNMENTS, TO THINK AS A COMMUNITY OF THE WELL-BEING OF -- WHAT DOES EVERYONE NEED? HEALTH CARE, SUPPORT, HOUSING. IF WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AND REALLY HAVE -- IT'S HARD TO GET OUR HEADS AROUND. SO IF WE CAN LEARN HOW TO DO THAT AND BECOME MORE SOPHISTICATED IN HOW WE WORK TOGETHER, TALK TO ONE ANOTHER, TRANSCEND THOSE DIVISIONS AND THE QUICK FIXES, I THINK WE CAN HAVE

AN IMPACT. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THIS COMMUNITY, AND THERE ARE MEASURES THAT ARE REALLY DEMONSTRATED NOW LOCALLY THAT THOSE MODELS CAN WORK. >> WE TALK A LOT ABOUT POVERTY IN NEW MEXICO. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE KIND OF SAYING THAT WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT POVERTY AND HOMELESSNESS, AND IF SOMEONE IS NOT HOMELESS YET, THINK OF THEM AS THE SAME THING WITH THE SAME NEEDS IN THE COMMUNITY. >> SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THESE GREAT SUCCESSES WE'VE HAD AT HOUSING PEOPLE, WE CAN MEASURE THEM, AND WE'RE HELPING THEM TO STAY HOUSED THROUGH THE HOUSING FIRST MODEL, WHICH JOHN CAN DEFINITELY TALK ABOUT. THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE THAT ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS FOR WHATEVER REASON. THEY'RE VETERANS COMING HOME, THERE'S THE RECESSION. IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT THE ECONOMY. HOMELESSNESS IS FIRST AND FOREMOST ABOUT NOT HAVING RESOURCES, LIVING IN POVERTY, AND NOT HAVING A ROOF OR A SAFE PLACE TO SLEEP TONIGHT OR TOMORROW NIGHT. THAT'S THE BROADEST, EASIEST WAY TO DESCRIBE IT. AND SO, YEAH, IF WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AND THINK AHEAD AND GET INTO WHERE INTERVENTION BECOMES PREVENTION. >> AND WHAT'S INTERESTING IS, WE KNOW FROM THE STUDIES LOCALLY THAT IT'S 30% MORE EXPENSIVE TO PAY FOR SOMEONE TO BE ON THE STREET, GOING THROUGH THE ER, GOING THROUGH THE EMERGENCY SYSTEM, SO TO YOUR POINT, IT

WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF WE CAN FOCUS ON MANAGING AND HELPING PEOPLE MAINTAIN HOUSING RATHER THAN MANAGING HOMELESSNESS. >> AND JOHN, YOUR PROGRAM DOES THAT. YOU HAVE A VOUCHER PROGRAM THAT YOU USE WHERE YOU WORK WITH LANDLORDS TO GET PEOPLE INTO HOUSING AND TRY TO MAKE SURE THEY STAY THERE A YEAR LATER, OR EVEN BEYOND. WHEN SOMEONE IS MATCHED UP WITH A LANDLORD, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? PERSON COMES TO US THROUGH A NUMBER OF AGENCIES LIKE HEADING HOME, ALBUQUERQUE HEALTH CARE FOR THE HOMELESS, AND THE VOUCHER IS A HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHER. SO WE ACTUALLY SEND THEM OUT WITH THEIR CASE MANAGER TO ANY NUMBER OF LANDLORDS. WE'RE WORKING WITH ABOUT 175 RIGHT NOW, AND THEY APPLY LIKE WOULD ANYBODY ELSE. OUR PROGRAM PROVIDES FUNDS FOR THEIR DEPOSIT, THEIR APPLICATION FEE, EVEN UTILITIES AT SOME POINT. AND THEN WE PAY MOST OF THE RENT SO THAT IT'S VERY, VERY AFFORDABLE. AND THE MODEL THAT WE USE CALLED HOUSING FIRST IS DESIGNED TO ELIMINATE ANY

AND ALL BARRIERS IN THE WAY OF GETTING AFFORDABLE HOUSING. SO THEY CAN MOVE IN VERY QUICKLY, SOMETIMES AS QUICKLY AS A WEEK AFTER FIRST MEETING A LANDLORD. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO SAY THAT THE LANDLORDS, WHILE NOT REPRESENTED AT THIS TABLE TODAY, ARE A KEY PLAYER IN OUR EFFORTS TO ELIMINATE HOMELESSNESS RIGHT NOW IN ALBUQUERQUE, THAT WITHOUT COMPANIES LIKE T & C MANAGEMENT, FOR INSTANCE, WE USE A NUMBER OF THEIR APARTMENTS, THAT WE WOULDN'T REALLY BE ABLE TO DO WHAT WE'RE DOING, THAT THEY HAVE OPENED UP THEIR DOORS AND THEY UNDERSTAND THAT OUR TENANTS NEED A LOT OF SERVICES, AND HOUSING IS FIRST. IF YOU LOOK AT MASLOW'S HIERARCHY OF NEEDS, HOUSING IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT PYRAMID, AND ONCE THAT PIECE OF THE PUZZLE HAS BEEN SATISFIED, THEN OUR CLIENTS CAN WORK ON A LOT OF OTHER ISSUES; THEIR HEALTH, OF COURSE NUTRITION, EDUCATION, LOOKING FOR A JOB.

AND WHEN THAT WORKS, AND IT DOES WORK QUITE WELL, THEN OUR CLIENTS BECOME EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL. THEY'RE REINTEGRATED INTO THE COMMUNITY, AND HOPEFULLY THEIR CHILDREN ARE BACK IN SCHOOL, AND THEIR HEALTH JUST IMPROVES IMMENSELY. >> DENNIS. IT SOUNDS LIKE SOME THINGS ARE WORKING. WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN NEXT, SPECIFICALLY IN ALBUQUERQUE, TO ADDRESS HOMELESSNESS? >> YOU GUYS CAN CHIME IN, BUT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF VERY SPECIFIC THINGS. ONE IS, WE NEED AFFORDABLE HOUSING. WE NEED ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THAT'S ALWAYS THE CRITICAL PIECE IN THIS. AND WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO KEEP RE-ALIGNING AND ALIGNING EVEN BETTER OUR RESOURCES THAT WE DO HAVE. THEY ARE LIMITED RESOURCES, BUT WHEN THEY'RE ALIGNED FOR THE SAME OUTCOME, THEN WE ALL SUCCEED AND AT A MUCH HIGHER RATE. SO I THINK THAT THOSE TWO PIECES FOR ME ARE CRITICAL, THAT WE NEED A HOUSING SUPPLY THAT'S ACCESSIBLE, AND WE NEED THE RESOURCES TO GO TO THOSE VERY TARGETED POPULATIONS ALL ACROSS OUR AGENCIES, NOT WITHIN OUR INDIVIDUAL SILOED OPERATIONS.

>> JENNIFER? >> I WOULD AGREE. I THINK WE CONTINUE TO USE THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE IN AN ALIGNED WAY THAT WE KNOW HAS IMPACT AND MAKES REAL CHANGE, AND THAT WE BOTH BROADEN THE POOL OF PEOPLE THAT WE'RE TARGETING IN THAT, BECAUSE WE HAVE LEFT OUT A FOCUS ON FAMILIES AND CHILDREN AND YOUTH AND SOME OTHER POPULATIONS, AND THAT WE ALSO ADD RESOURCES TO THAT, AND THAT'S FEDERAL, STATE, CITY, COUNTY AND PRIVATE. WE KNOW WHAT WORKS, AND INSTEAD OF THROWING MONEY, DIMES AND PENNIES OUT IN DIFFERENT PLACES, I THINK IF WE CONSOLIDATE THAT AND ADD MORE TO IT, WE CAN HAVE A HIGHER IMPACT. AND THEN ALSO, TO CONTINUE TO LOOK AT HOW WE PREVENT HOMELESSNESS AND KEEP PEOPLE HOUSED AND HEALTHY WITH A HIGH QUALITY OF LIFE. >> AND IT'S TRICKY, BECAUSE THERE'S A CROSS-SECTOR SAVINGS THAT'S DIFFICULT TO TRANSLATE, THE SAVING AND REDUCED JAIL TIME, TO HOUSING DOLLARS. SO WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE, I THINK, AT A HIGH LEVEL THE CONVERSATION IN OUR COMMUNITY OF WHERE ARE WE SEEING THE SAVINGS AND HOW DO WE TRANSLATE THAT INTO HOUSING AND SUPPORT FOR PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS. >> AND REALIZE THAT IT'S NOT A POT OF MONEY THAT WE SAVE THAT SITS SOMEWHERE FOR PEOPLE TO WRITE A CHECK, IT'S REALLY A SHIFT IN USING COMMUNITY RESOURCES IN A BETTER WAY FOR ALL.

>> JOHN, YOUR FINAL THOUGHTS. >> THERE ARE NEW COLLABORATIONS WITH THE CITY AND THE COUNTY REGARDING PEOPLE THAT ARE IN MDC AND GETTING OUT, PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN THERE WAITING FOR HOUSING. I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT NEXT STEP. I THINK THE OTHER KEY PLAYER IN THE CITY IS UNM AND UNM HEALTH SERVICES, AND AGAIN, HOW TO BRING THEM ON BOARD IN THE HOUSING ARENA, REALLY, NOT JUST MEDICAL CARE BUT ALSO HOUSING, SO THAT WE CAN MAKE THAT TRANSLATION FROM THE COST SAVINGS IN THE HOSPITALS TO HOUSING. >> WE DO KNOW THAT THERE IS SOME LEGISLATION UP IN SANTA FE. WE COVER THE LEGISLATURE QUITE A BIT HERE ON InFOCUS, AND WE WILL BE LOOKING AT THAT LEGISLATION TO EXPAND THE MODEL FROM HEADING HOME TO OTHER CITIES AROUND NEW MEXICO, LOOKING AT THIS ISSUE A LITTLE MORE BROADLY. THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US TODAY. >> THANK YOU. >> WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE. EARLIER THIS WEEK, THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL REPORTED THAT NMSU PROPOSES NEW EXEMPTIONS IN THE STATE'S INSPECTION OF PUBLIC RECORDS ACT, ALSO KNOWN, AS WE'LL THE PROPOSED CHANGES COULD COVER INFORMATION ABOUT CANDIDATES FOR SOME JOBS. SOPHIE, PRESIDENT CARRUTHERS ARGUES THAT THERE'S A CHILLING EFFECT WHEN YOU CAN

SEE WHO IS APPLYING FOR A HIGH-LEVEL JOB, AND THERE SHOULD BE SOME LEVEL OF SECRECY OR PROTECTION FOR THAT PERSON AND THEIR PRIVACY. AND OF COURSE, WE'VE GOT OTHERS SAYING, NO, WE SHOULD HAVE THAT KIND OF INFORMATION OUT THERE. IS THAT THE BASICS OF IT HERE, AS YOU SEE IT, OR IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE? >> I THINK PRESIDENT THINK THAT THAT'S ALL HE'S REALLY ON ABOUT, BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, NMSU IS A PUBLIC INSTITUTION. IPRA EXISTS TO PROVIDE THE COMMUNITY WITH INSIGHT INTO THOSE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS. AND WHAT WE SEE HERE IS NMSU'S ABILITY TO HIRE A FOOTBALL COACH VERSUS FREEDOM OF INFORMATION -- >> ATHLETIC DIRECTOR. >> THANK YOU -- FREEDOM OF INFORMATION AND THE ABILITY FOR THE COMMUNITY TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEIR DOLLARS ARE BEING SPENT AND WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THEIR PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS. AND YOU KNOW WHAT, I HAVE A VERY HARD TIME SAYING, YES, YOUR ATHLETIC DIRECTOR IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PUBLIC'S RIGHT TO KNOW

WHAT'S GOING ON WITHIN YOUR SCHOOL. AND I ALSO FEEL THAT THERE ARE PROBABLY WAYS THAT NMSU COULD MANAGE THAT HIRING SO THAT THE NAMES DON'T COME OUT, I DO BELIEVE THAT, WITHOUT THIS SORT OF LARGER DAMPENING OF THE ABILITY TO GET THAT INFORMATION. >> INTERESTING. DAN, YOUR THOUGHT ON THIS. IT'S A LOT MORE COMPLICATED, AS SOPHIE IS STARTING TO DRAW OUT HERE THAN JUST PRIVACY, APPLICANTS VERSUS OTHER PEOPLE. IT GETS COMPLICATED. BUT IN A GENERAL SENSE OF THINGS, IS GOVERNOR -- I ALMOST CALLED HIM GOVERNOR CARRUTHERS, BECAUSE OF COURSE HE WAS OUR GOVERNOR. IS HE ON THE RIGHT TRACK >> I THINK HE MAKES, TO SOME EXTENT, A VALID POINT. I UNDERSTAND WHAT SOPHIE IS SAYING. WHERE I DISAGREE IS BACK TO YOUR SUPERINTENDENT COMMENT WE HAD IN THE LAST SEGMENT. IF YOU'RE GOING TO GET PEOPLE THAT WANT TO TEST THE WATERS, NOT EVERYBODY IS UNEMPLOYED AT THIS TIME, AND SO WHEN YOUR CURRENT EMPLOYER FINDS OUT THAT YOU'RE OUT INTERVIEWING FOR OTHER JOBS, SOMETIMES YOU CAN LOSE YOUR CURRENT JOB. YOUR CURRENT EMPLOYER WILL SAY, WE'RE DONE WITH YOU. >> OR AT THE LEAST IT HASTENS YOUR DEMISE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT. >> IT MAY NOT BE AT THE MOMENT. >> OR LET ME JUST SAY, SECURES YOU A RAISE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> BUT I CAN GIVE YOU A PERFECT EXAMPLE. THERE'S A DIVISION I FOOTBALL COACH THAT I KNOW, HE WAS COACHING AT ALABAMA, AND THE RULE AT ALABAMA WAS, YOU CAN INTERVIEW FOR ANY JOB YOU WANT. IF THE JOB YOU'RE INTERVIEWING FOR ISN'T BETTER THAN THE JOB YOU HAVE FOR ME, WHEN YOU COME BACK YOU'RE NOT GETTING YOUR JOB BACK. SO, HE WAS THE OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR AT ALABAMA. IF HE INTERVIEWED FOR NEW MEXICO STATE AND THEY CHOSE NOT TO HIRE HIM, HE'S NOT GOING TO BE THE OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR AT ALABAMA. SO I THINK THERE'S GOT TO BE A WAY TO DO THIS. I DON'T KNOW THAT THE PUBLIC'S INTEREST TRULY -- I DON'T THINK THE PUBLIC CARES ABOUT WHO THE 50 APPLICANTS ARE, I THINK THEY CARE ABOUT THE PROCESS, WHAT YOU'RE PAYING THE PEOPLE, WHAT YOU'RE EXPANDING. I THINK THERE'S A WAY TO TWEAK THIS TO SAY, IF YOU CAN SHOW A REASON, A VALID REASON WHY THIS IS GOING TO DAMAGE SOMEBODY, WE CAN KIND OF BLACKEN THEIR STUFF OUT AND MOVE IT TO THE SIDE AND NOT MAKE THAT AVAILABLE. BUT I THINK TAKING THIS TOTAL APPROACH THAT WE'VE GOT TO CHANGE THE WHOLE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT I THINK IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS, I'D LIKE TO MENTION, THAT PRESIDENT CARRUTHERS HAS SAID WHICH I FIND FASCINATING IS, IT'S EXPENSIVE FOR US, IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME TO ANSWER THESE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT OR IPRA REQUESTS, AND THAT'S TOO HIGH A BURDEN ON US. HE'S ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT MORE THAN JUST RUNNING OFF THE NAMES AND RESUMES OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE APPLYING, HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE ENTIRE SYSTEM THAT'S IN PLACE, THAT IS IN PLACE FOR GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES TO ENSURE THAT INFORMATION. >> AND YOU'RE ALLOWED TO PASS THAT COST ON, AREN'T YOU? >> UP TO A POINT. >> A REASONABLE COST. >> IF YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE SOMEONE GO MAKE ALL THESE COPIES, THE CURRENT LAW SAYS IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE STAFF TO DO THAT, YOU CAN SAY, LOOK, IT'S GOING TO COST US MONEY TO DO THIS. I THINK MY POINT IS, TO KIND OF AGREE WITH SOPHIE, I THINK THERE ARE SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE COSTING NEW MEXICO STATE ALL THIS MONEY TO DO ALL THIS. >> RACHEL, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF ISSUES HERE. THEY'RE CALLING THEM EXEMPTIONS, WE SHOULD GET THAT ON THE TABLE, AS OPPOSED TO A FULL AND COMPLETE TWEAK. HOWEVER, ONE OF THEM THAT SOME FOLKS ARE HAVING TROUBLE WITH IS, LIMIT ACCESS TO RECORDS REVEALING THE IDENTITY OF INDIVIDUALS MAKING CIVIL RIGHTS COMPLAINTS, AS WELL AS THOSE ACCUSED OF CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS BUT NOT YET FOUND GUILTY.

A LOT OF FOLKS ARE FINDING THAT'S REAL PROBLEMATIC, THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT TRULY SHOULD BE A PUBLIC RECORD. >> ABSOLUTELY. FULL DISCLOSURE, I'M ON THE PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS, RIO GRANDE CHAPTER, AND AS SOON AS WE SAW THIS PROPOSAL, WE SENT AN OPEN LETTER TO PRESIDENT CARRUTHERS SAYING THAT WE WERE VERY MUCH OPPOSED TO IT AND VERY CONCERNED ABOUT IT. WHAT CONCERNED US WAS JUST THOSE EXCEPTIONS THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED POTENTIALLY THAT GO FAR BEYOND ANYTHING AFFECTING A JOB SEARCH, THOSE EXEMPTIONS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS COMPLAINTS, FINDING OUT WHO IS BEING ACCUSED AND WHO IS ACCUSING, AND ALSO THERE'S A PROVISION IN THE PROPOSAL THAT NMSU HAS DRAFTED THAT WOULD AFFECT AVAILABILITY OF RECORDS PERTAINING TO LAW ENFORCEMENT PROCEEDINGS, AND SOME OF THOSE THINGS CAN BE INTERPRETED VERY BROADLY. I'D ALSO SAY, PERSONALLY, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE STOMACH TO DEAL WITH YOUR NAME BEING IN AN OPEN SEARCH FOR A UNIVERSITY POSITION, YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO DO VERY WELL UNDER THE SCRUTINY OF THAT POSITION. >> THAT'S A FAIR POINT. LET'S ME PICK UP ON SOMETHING, ROB, THAT DAN STARTED AND RACHEL JUST

CARRIED, IS IT DIFFERENT FOR SOMEBODY APPLYING FOR SOMETHING IF THEY'RE IN-STATE? DOES THAT RING IN YOUR GUT AS A DIFFERENCE? LET'S SAY, IT'S ONE THING TO COME FROM ALABAMA AND APPLY TO BE AN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR. IS IT DIFFERENT IF YOU'RE IN THE LOCAL AREA AND YOU'RE APPLYING FOR SOMETHING AND YOUR CURRENT BOSS FINDS OUT? DOES THAT RING A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FOR YOU ON THIS ONE? >> I DON'T THINK SO. MY GENERAL THOUGHT IS THAT PUBLIC ENTITY, OR YOU'RE GOING TO APPLY FOR A PUBLIC ENTITY, THEN IT'S PUBLIC RECORD. AND BESIDES, THERE ARE ENOUGH EXCEPTIONS, IF NOT IN STATUTE, JUST BY PRACTICE. 2012, BARBARA COUTURE STEPPED DOWN, OR WAS FORCED OUT AT NEW MEXICO STATE, AND GOT A $450,000 PARACHUTE, AND WE STILL TO THIS DAY DO NOT KNOW WHY SHE LEFT. >> FOR THAT MATTER, WINSTON BROOKS. WE'RE DEALING WITH THAT ISSUE RIGHT NOW WITH WINSTON BROOKS. >> JUST BETWEEN THOSE TWO PEOPLE, WE'RE TALKING ALMOST A MILLION DOLLARS. >> THIS IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING. I APPRECIATE THE LETTER YOUR ORGANIZATION SENT.

I DID SEE THE RESPONSE TO IT. HE WANTS TO SIT DOWN AND TALK AND TRY TO THRASH THIS OUT. WHAT DO YOU ANTICIPATE THAT CONVERSATION ENTAILING? >> BASICALLY, HIS INITIAL RESPONSE WAS -- HE SORT OF ZEROED IN ON, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU ALL ARE ESPECIALLY ALARMED BY THE LAW ENFORCEMENT PROCEEDINGS EXCEPTION. I GET THAT. HE DID BRING UP THE COST OF PROVIDING THE RECORDS AND SAID, I TRUST THAT YOU ALL WOULD SUPPORT IN STATUTE HAVING FULL COST RECOVERY. I WOULD SAY THAT WE WOULD SUPPORT REASONABLE COST RECOVERY, WHICH IS ALREADY IN STATUTE. >> WE'LL FOLLOW UP ON THIS ONE. THIS IS INTERESTING, ISN'T IT. A LOT OF THINGS AT STAKE FOR THE PUBLIC HERE. UP NEXT, THE LINE LOOKS AT >> PEOPLE ARE COMPLETELY INVISIBLE. WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO FEEL COMPELLED TO TALK ABOUT IT. WHEN PEOPLE ARE DRIVING BY, WHEN NEIGHBORS ARE RIGHTFULLY UPSET, THAT >> EARLIER IN THE SHOW, WE

HEARD HOW LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS ARE ADDRESSING HOMELESSNESS HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE. A GROUP OF PEOPLE LIVING ON 1st STREET ARE NOW BEING CALLED A TENT CITY, NEIGHBORS IN THE AREA HAVE RAISED A LOT OF CONCERNS ABOUT CRIME AND OTHER THINGS, RACHEL. NEW MEXICO BUSINESS FIRST HAS REPORTED ON EFFORTS TO REVITALIZE DOWNTOWN AND OTHER THINGS, AND I'M CURIOUS IN YOUR VIEW IF THAT IS THE GOAL HERE. IS DOWNTOWN BEING PROTECTED BY LETTING THIS SITUATION SORT OF GET TO THIS POINT? COULDN'T THE CITY HAVE STEPPED IN JUST A LITTLE BIT EARLIER? >> THERE'S A REAL CONCERN HERE. SOME OF THE COVERAGE THAT SEEN NEARBY BUSINESS OWNERS SAYING, THIS PRESENTS A HEALTH HAZARD, THIS PRESENTS A CRIME HAZARD, AND THOSE ARE VERY REAL THINGS. AT THE SAME TIME, LAS CRUCES HAS ACTUALLY SORT OF SANCTIONED A TENT CITY WITH A PRESENCE THERE FROM SOCIAL SERVICES AGENCIES. IT'S GOTTEN NATIONAL MEDIA ATTENTION FOR DOING SO. SO I'M WONDERING IF MORE PUBLIC OFFICIALS, INCLUDING MAYBE IN ALBUQUERQUE, WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND SAY, HOMELESS PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY GOING TO SET UP SOMEWHERE,

WHAT CAN WE DO TO ELIMINATE THE IMPACT ON AN AREA. >> I'M GLAD YOU SAID THAT, BECAUSE ROB NIKOLEWSKI, HOMELESS PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SET UP SOMEWHERE. THEY JUST ARE. AND THAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE LAS CRUCES SITUATION THAT RACHEL MENTIONED, WHERE THEY HAVE SOCIAL SERVICES REALLY RIGHT BESIDE THE TENT CITY TO ACT AS A TRANSITION. IF YOU JUST BOOT THESE PEOPLE OFF OF 1st STREET, WHERE ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO GO? AREN'T THEY JUST GOING TO SET UP SOMEWHERE ELSE, FOR >> WELL, THIS IS ALSO A LARGER QUESTION, TOO, ABOUT THE HOMELESS PEOPLE THEMSELVES. A LOT OF THEM ARE NOT TAKING THEIR MEDICATIONS, AND THAT BRINGS UP A LARGER QUESTION OF HOW DO YOU FORCE THEM TO. >> OR SELF-MEDICATING. >> RIGHT. AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION, TOO, IS I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A SEGMENT OF THE HOMELESS POPULATION THAT DOESN'T WANT TO GO TO SHELTERS. THEY WOULD RATHER GO TO A TENT CITY WHERE THEY FEEL LIKE THEY CAN SET THEIR OWN RULES. I MEAN, THAT'S -- AND WE'RE SEEING THAT IN SANTA FE, AS WELL, WHERE I LIVE, WHERE THEY'VE GOT A HOMELESS SHELTER THERE THAT THE CITY HAS INVESTED A PRETTY DECENT CHUNK OF CHANGE IN, BUT THEY KICK THE HOMELESS PEOPLE

OUT, I THINK IT'S AT 8:00 EVERY MORNING, THEY CAN'T COME BACK UNTIL 6:00, SO THEY JUST HANG AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO IT'S A LARGER ISSUE ALL THE WAY AROUND. >> IT'S THE SAME SITUATION HERE, SOPHIE, WHERE THE WESTSIDE SHELTER, THEY'RE BOOTED AT 6:00 A.M., BROUGHT DOWNTOWN AND JUST UNLOADED ONTO THE WORLD. >> THAT'S RIGHT. THERE'S A LARGER SORT OF SYSTEMIC ISSUE HERE. THE TENT CITY WHO ARE SAYING THINGS LIKE, I DON'T FEEL LIKE THE HOMELESS SHELTER IS SAFE, I'VE HAD BAD EXPERIENCES THERE. THIS HAS NOT BEEN A TOP PRIORITY. DESPITE THE PROBLEMS WITH OUR ECONOMY AND THE FACT THAT WE DID SEE A RISE IN HOMELESSNESS, IT'S NOT BEEN A TOP PRIORITY HERE. I LOOK TO THE LAS CRUCES MODEL, AND I THINK THEY'RE DOING AN EXTRAORDINARY JOB THERE. I'M ALSO REMINDED ABOUT THE RECENT NEWS OF UTAH AND HOW UTAH HAS BEEN EXTRAORDINARILY SUCCESSFUL IN FINDING HOMES FOR HOMELESS VETERANS. SO IT SEEMS TO ME THERE ARE SOLUTIONS, THERE ARE PROACTIVE SOLUTIONS THAT THE CITY COULD BE LOOKING AT. AND AT THIS POINT, WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THEY'RE JUST PLANNING ON TEARING IT DOWN.

>> DAN, WE'RE A LITTLE SHORT ON TIME NOW, BUT WE'VE GOT ALBUQUERQUE HEADING HOME, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF ACTIVITY IN ALBUQUERQUE NOW THAT WE'VE REALLY NOT HAD BEFORE WHEN IT COMES TO HOMELESSNESS. GETTING GOOD RESULTS ON CHRONIC HOMELESS FOLKS, GETTING GOOD RESULTS FOR VETERANS AND SOME OTHERS. BUT WHAT'S MISSING HERE ON THIS TENT CITY THING? >> WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE AT THE TABLE, AND I'LL JUST BE QUICK, I HAVE TRAVELED A LOT WITH WORK, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS, I FEEL LIKE -- ME, PERSONALLY. THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION. WE HAVE AN INORDINATE NUMBER OF MENTALLY HANDICAPPED FOLKS, DISADVANTAGED FOLKS THAT ARE HOMELESS IN ALBUQUERQUE THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN IN OTHER CITIES OF LARGER SIZE. SO I THINK THAT JUST HOPING THAT THEY GO SOMEWHERE IS NOT THE ANSWER HERE. SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE. I THINK THERE'S A GREATER ISSUE IN NEW MEXICO THAT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED WITH THE HOMELESSNESS. THERE ARE ORGANIZATIONS LIKE JOY JUNCTION THAT ARE WORKING EVERY DAY TO TAKE CARE OF THESE FOLKS. BUT IT IS -- YOU KNOW, I USED TO OFFICE DOWNTOWN, AND WE JUST CAME BACK FROM SEATTLE, WE TALKED ABOUT IT LAST WEEK, I'VE BEEN TO L.A., I'M GOING TO NEW YORK IN A FEW WEEKS, DENVER, AND WHEN WE GO TO DOWNTOWN ALBUQUERQUE, I'M TELLING YOU

GUYS, THERE IS AN INORDINATE NUMBER OF AGGRESSIVE HOMELESS PEOPLE THAT YOU DON'T SEE IN THESE OTHER BIGGER CITIES, AND ALBUQUERQUE IS GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT TO DEAL WITH THAT. THE SAD PART IS, A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE THAT YOU TALK TO, OR HEAR THEM TALKING, THEY'RE FROM NEW MEXICO. THEY'RE NOT PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST SHOWING UP HERE, THEY'RE NEW MEXICANS. >> INTERESTING. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY. OUR LINE PANELISTS WILL CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ONLINE FOR THIS WEEK'S 'ON THE CLOCK' EXTRAS, AND JOIN US ONLINE AT NewMexicoInFocus.org. >> I'M GENE GRANT. THANKS FOR TUNING IN TONIGHT. THE STAFF HERE AT NEW MEXICO InFOCUS AND NEW MEXICO PBS ARE JOINING OTHERS AROUND THE STATE IN MOURNING THE PASSING OF TERRIE Q. SAYRE. SHE WAS A LONG-TIME WEEKEND MORNING HOST ON 770 KKOB, AND TERRIE ALSO HOSTED INTERVIEW SEGMENTS HERE A FEW YEARS AGO ON NEW MEXICO PBS AND NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. OUR CONDOLENCES TO HER FAMILY, FRIENDS AND PEOPLE AROUND NEW MEXICO WHO APPRECIATED HER GREAT WORK. AS ALWAYS, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORT TO STAY INFORMED AND ENGAGED. I'M GENE GRANT. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK ON