Report from Santa Fe; Chris Hedges

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hwn wedi ein fi irddoeddwn llawn nogynyhoot Ys si saja. Oed intensen iwn pordi, ac ydolyfnus ac gydiau sy'n gallo a envis Ό tuwed preventsurd ym wedi'n bod yn Felaig Eid. a γunafl o gyda dal hollir pat i dwynch i j weather anright neud ac yn nhw teBe Sc redd o hon beaig. Mae leidach yn ngouldai dydfoliol iawn i'r yn yn naor y guideau'i cent yn trwyënn am teBaeel bod caid cy display a i dyd 100 o'r i poddau oло. orth Africa, so these were all in the days after 9-11 and I've spent as a reporter many years covering acts of terror terrorist groups terrorism and we forgot that terrorism is a tactic. You can't make a war on terror. The only terror has been with us since Salah strutt about it in theCRthon wars. The

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Al Qaeda speaks solely in the language of nihilistic violence, and that was the violence or the language that we embraced. And we resurrected Al Qaeda. We are the most potent recruiting arm of the jihadists throughout the Muslim world. We conformed to the stereotype. We built military bases all throughout the Middle East. We're occupying two Muslim countries. We're carrying out proxy wars and two other countries, Yemen and Pakistan. And the problem is not terrorism. The problem is not Al Qaeda. The problem is not Islamic extremism. The problem is occupation. And attacks against us, including terrorist attacks, whoever carries them out, whatever organization is formed, will not end. Until we end the occupation of Muslim land. And it's a completely understandable reaction. You write a weekly column in truth dig.

And I've been following them. You had quite a piece on the death of Osama bin Laden. We don't have much time. Can you just give us, though, the gist, the gem, the kernel of what you had to say about this event? Well, only that, as I think reiterating the point I just made, that killing Osama bin Laden is not going to solve the problem. That one has to understand, and I think this is why empathy is so important, what it is that drives and motivates people to carry out these kinds of acts. I spent many, many months of my life in Gaza. I know Hamas very, very well. And to understand is not to condone. But if we don't understand, if we don't grasp what it is that drives people to carry out these acts of rage and terror, then we're not going to be able to stop it. If we certify them as incomprehensible, which we have done culturally, then in essence, as Nietzsche wrote, we become the monster we fight.

We fight them with the same sort of language of callus force and brutality and violence, which is, of course, the only language they understand. Well, I'm going to move on to some of your books now because you've written this, this is called Death of the Liberal Class. This is it, tour de force. This is stunning. And another book, both of them out this year, The World As It Is, Dispatches on the Myth of Human Progress. It's just heartbreaking. Let's look at Death of the Liberal Class. Who are the Liberal Class? And what institutions are, what were they known for the Liberal Class, and now what's left? Well, the pillars. I look at the pillars of the Liberal Establishment, the press, public education, culture, labor, liberal religious institutions, which, of course, I come out of, and finally, the Democratic Party. And I argue that they've all either been atrophy destroyed in the case of labor largely or domesticated

or become hostage to corporate interests. And that the pillars of the Liberal Establishment are absolutely vital within a Democratic system because they provide a formal mechanism within established channels of power to redress grievances, to ameliorate the suffering and injustices that are visited on working men and women in the poor. And that when you close that safety valve, when these institutions no longer work, and I think that both the presidency of Bush and Barack Obama and going back to Clinton is an example of how the interests of citizens have been sacrificed to serve corporate interests. Then you create a very frightening political paradigm. It's not a new story. I covered the breakdown in Yugoslavia. They're very similar parallels. We had in Yugoslavia, a currency collapse, massive unemployment, large-scale factory closures, and an ineffectual Liberal Class,

which was unable to address mounting social problems. And so leaping up around the fringes of Yugoslavia society began these very disturbing, proto-fascist movements, ethnic nationalism, frenutusement, and Croatia, slow-but-amelosevich, and Serbia. And we're seeing the same thing here. There is a rage, and it's a legitimate rage, on the part of people who have been betrayed. And they've been betrayed finally, not only by government, but by the Liberal Class. And I think Clinton is the poster child for it. Clinton, or Obama, or classical democratic liberals speak in that feel-your-paying language. And yet, carry out all sorts of programs that have done nothing but devastate the lives of the poor and working men and women. It was Clinton who destroyed welfare, was Clinton that gave us NAFTA, Clinton that deregulated the banking system, which created the global meltdown and the crisis

that we're facing. Barack Obama has, in essence, codified the destruction of domestic and international law put in place by the Bush administration. He hasn't even restored habeas corpus. They passed the Pfizer Reform Act, which retroactively makes legal, but under our constitution is illegal. The warrantless wiretapping, monitoring, and eavesdropping of tens of millions of Americans. I mean, the list goes on and on. No one wanted to bail out. This is the first bailout. Constituent calls were 100 to 1 against it across the political spectrum, but it passes anyway. And what's happened is that we've undergone a kind of coup d'état and slow motion. And that's extremely dangerous, because as this rage mounts, it expresses itself in a rational political movements. And you see that in the Tea Party, where everybody thinks government is part of the problem, and yet nobody wants to destroy Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, social security, and nobody wants to touch the military or the security and surveillance state as if it's not part of government. It doesn't make any sense, but the demagogues in that movement

know how to manipulate the hatred. And of course, like all demagogues, they channel it towards scapegoats, Muslims, undocumented workers, homosexuals. It's such an old story. I mean, you can go back to watch the Nazi party in Weimar, did precisely the same thing. And so that inability of liberal institutions to function, and it remember the perfect example of how liberal institutions work as the New Deal, which, and as Conrad Black says in his biography of Roosevelt, Roosevelt's greatest achievement was that he saved capitalism. But the inability, the closing of that safety valve, always has very, very frightening ramifications. The Dostavsky was obsessed with this. It's what demons is about. It's what no surrounded about. And Dostavsky's words, when there is no way to redress the injustices that are visited by a narrow,

oligarchic, rapacious elite upon the rest of the country, you enter in his words, an age of moral nihilism. Well, that's certainly where we are. I think what woke people up with the housing bubble on the foreclosures, that the government stepped in to save the banks, not the middle-class people who were losing their homes. Right, and we have six million people have lost their homes. And by next year, the estimates are 10 million people. And we know that much of this was criminal. That because we have the documentation, the Goldman Sachs bet against these loans because they were handing out loans, especially in low-income neighborhoods, that they knew these people could never repay. And yet, the victims that it's taken out on the back of the victims, and the perpetrator of the crime are bailed out by the taxpayer. Yeah. Yeah. So what's, besides all the hand-ringing of the liberal class, and the little, you know, fevered brow wrists to the forehead, oh my,

what can be done? Civil disobedience. The two-party system doesn't work. There is no way in this country to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs. It's impossible. And it is incumbent upon those of us who care about a civil society in a functioning democracy, to begin, as I have, to carry out acts of civil disobedience because we are the last thin line of defense. If we do not legitimize this rage, step outside the system and challenge it through nonviolence, then we will leave the opposition in the hands of those who celebrate the gun culture, celebrate the language of violence, express a kind of bigotry and intolerance towards weaker segments of our society. And we will, you know, that's rolling out the red carpet for fascism. But people, in a way, I hate to say this, are not educated enough to know about nonviolent protests. One of your essays from Truth Dig was, this is what resistance looks like. Right.

So a primer for people who are deeply disturbing about what's happening but don't know what to do. What can they do? Can they do what happened to Bradley Manning? Right. Well, the Bradley Manning incident is extremely disturbing. Yes. I mean, here we are permitting openly on American soil, torture of an American citizen. There's no legal or moral justification for what they're doing. They're employing the techniques that have worked so well in Guantanamo and in our black sites where they psychologically destroy a human being. And that's why they have army psychiatrists monitoring both the detainees in the black sites in Guantanamo as well as Manning. You know, they used to say the Gestapo broke bones and the Stasi, the East German secret police broke souls. We break souls. It's more effective. And the message is clear. I mean, Bradley Manning was a whistleblower who exposed war crimes that were being carried out in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And the message that the state is sending to any other dissident is don't try this. Or yeah, or the same thing will happen to you. Yes. Well, they have many, many videos of you on YouTube giving some of your wonderful speeches. To me, one of the most moving one was the piece you did about hope. And can you tell our audience where you were in the snowy White House, you know, outside the White House helping the Iraqi vets? It was Iraq veterans against the war, veterans for peace. And we were, as we have many times in Lafayette Park, although this time in a very heavy snowfall in December 16th. With Daniel Ellsberg. Right. And you were arrested after you. Well, 131 of us were arrested. Yeah. And it was very moving. I mean, the after the talks, this great blues musician who's also a Vietnam vet, watermelon slim,

played taps on his harmonica. And then several veterans folded the flag of a young man who had just been killed in Afghanistan, the family had brought the flag. And it was completely silent. And somebody slowly beat a drum. And everybody walked in single file out of the park. All these veterans, many of them wearing their uniforms from the Iraq, Afghan, and Vietnam conflicts. Many of them crying. Carrying the kinds of physical and emotional scars that war inflicts on human beings. And to the fence where we were arrested, it was really deeply moving. And you addressed them with this stunning, really magnificent speech about hope. You could just read a little bit of it and then end with that WH Unquote that is so inspiring. Hope has a cost. Hope is not comfortable or easy. Hope requires personal risk. It is not about the right attitude. Hope is not about peace of mind.

Hope is action. Hope is doing something. The more futile, the more useless, the more irrelevant and incomprehensible and active rebellion is, the vaster and more potent hope becomes. Hope never makes sense. Hope is weak, unorganized, and absurd. Hope, which is always nonviolent, exposes in its powerlessness, the lies, fraud, and coercion employed by the state. Hope knows that an injustice visited on our neighbor is an injustice visited on us all. Hope posits that people are drawn to the good by the good. This is the secret of hope's power. Hope demands for others what we demand for ourselves. Hope does not separate us from them. Hope sees in our enemy, our own face. Defenseless under the night, our world in stupor lies, yet dotted everywhere,

ironic points of light flash out, wherever the just exchange their messages. May I compose like them of arrows and of dust, beleaguered by the same negation and despair, showing a firming flame. Well, may we all show that a firming flame. I want to mention your books again. Thank you for reading that. Death of the liberal class. This came out this year. And we didn't even get into this one because of time limitations. The world as it is, dispatches on the, on the myth of human progress. So is it only a myth? Can we even hope for some human progress? Human nature doesn't change. The tools change, the mechanisms change. And if we place our faith, the naive faith in science, technology and the inevitability of progress, then we're doomed. If we don't understand how readily societies can embrace

their own self annihilation, as many have, then we won't take the kinds of actions that can stop the destruction of the ecosystem, or the, finally, the destruction both of the imperium and the economy that within our own country. But how can the individual, you know, just a person watching this show and who thinks about these and thinks now and then but is caught up in the demands and the rigors of survival these days? What is it, some simple things that the individual can do? All resistance now will be local because as commodity prices rise and this has been a huge engine behind the protests in the Middle East food prices, wheat in the last eight months has increased by 100%. The elite will retreat into their gated compounds. The state, which has been steadily dismantled by corporations, will not have the capacity to provide assistance.

So we have to begin to build self-sustaining communities and food is going to become a huge issue if we're going to survive because the messages that the corporate state won't take care of us. And I think that there are many movements, local movements that are beginning to do this and I think they're absolutely vital. Well, you are a beacon for us. We will look forward and hope. Our guest today is Chris Hedges, author and you can find him at Truth Day and Senior Fellow at the Nation. I am so grateful you've taken the time to be with us today. Thank you. And I'm Lorraine Mills. I'd like to thank you our audience for being with us today on report from Santa Fe. We'll see you next week. Passed archival programs of report from Santa Fe are available at the website report from Santa Fe.com. If you have questions or comments, please email info at report from Santa Fe.com.

Report from Santa Fe is made possible in part by grants from the members of the National Education Association of New Mexico and organization of professionals who believe that investing in public education is an investment in our state's economic future. And by a grant from the Healy Foundation, Taos, New Mexico. Thank you. Thank you.