¡Colores!; 2022; 0:38:20 B-roll of sculptures; Ed Haddaway, Interview Disc 1

in Let's get some audio here, so, you know, you look good, Ed, all right, so can you count to ten for me? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. Good? So can we close that door, too? And then we should be good. But if you have the author here, the filter, because I can't turn it off. No, we're good.

Thank you. What is the filter? It's the full filter. If you open the door, you can open the door. Oh, I can hear it. You want to turn it off? Yeah, let's turn it off. I can hear it. It'll come true. And it's a constant, but you might not be getting it too much, not at all. Very light, please. Say it again. I almost don't want to, because, yeah, so. Speeding. Can we tilt that light up just like a hair? What do you think, John? Is that okay? It feels like, no? Does it feel like it's low? Okay, so what am I, you know, I guess a good question, a good thing to start is, like, how do you value art? Well, most people, of course, I mean, one of the way you start thinking, value of anything is debatable.

You know, I think we learn that with the top marker, when it all went down. But it's a matter of who's making the value, who's deciding what is valuable. And, you know, how much, and I'll just read in this letter that Kurt Vonnegut wrote. And he said, he had some student to, well, I'm already born at this time. That's okay, good. You know, try to watch, um, like, try not to, you know, um, just, you can pause and do quiet, just fine with it. Okay. Well, yeah, I did just read a little bit about Kurt Vonnegut. And he was proposing for some students that the value was in looking and trying. And I mean, we're totally used to counting everything in money and material goods. But it is, I mean, when you get to the end of your life, it's hard to imagine you're

going to worry about money at that very last second. So I think it really is about knowing yourself. The more you know yourself, I think that's where the value comes from. That was beautiful. Um, so now I want to get into the deeper stuff, you know, your work has a whimsical quality. You make it look easy to work with heavy metal. Have you always looked at the bright side of life? Uh, I told my wife, my wife realized the other day that I enjoy being miserable and, uh, really upset or badly. Uh, but, uh, I think I was really a dark kid. I was, I was into, uh, monsters and, uh, I loved all the old monster movies and, uh, I was pretty obsessed with, uh, dark things for a long time.

And it was, uh, sort of a conscious decision to move from the darkness to a lighter, uh, view of life. I mean, I, uh, maybe, maybe I had very little choice because I, I think I would have gone nuts if I stayed on the path, uh, that I was on, but, uh, I do remember making conscious choices to, uh, focus on, uh, the funnier side of things. How would you describe what that is? Well, you know, it is so much about attitude, uh, I mean, I, I'm trying to understand exactly what humor is and, and it's a very, it's, it's very elusive, but, um, uh, uh, we'll go back to, to humor, uh, answering the question again. Uh, you know, uh, how would you describe what that whimsical quality is?

Or what, what changed the question to, like, what is laughter about, like, what is that about? You know, I, I do think it's a coping mechanism, uh, that, uh, you, you've got very few choices on how you look at life. And I think if you can, uh, I'm not, I'm certainly not an optimist, but I do, uh, I, I think because, uh, I, I need to be comforted somehow. I do find humor in life. And if you, if you kind of remove yourself just a little bit, it's all this kind of wild dance, uh, life is just, uh, chaos and, and quasiness and, uh, you know, I mean, everything, anything you can imagine, um, but it, it's really our attitude to shape whether it, uh, it's funny

or not. Cool. So, you know, you talked about your art continuing a lot of personal symbols. And I talked to you before, yet you find that making art is a way to connect with people. So, because you talk about that? Yeah, that was, that was real surprising to me. I went through a stage of being, uh, you, uh, I think I was really cut off from people. I'm, I'm pretty deaf and, um, but I was always able to pretty well compensate for it. But deafness causes you to separate from other people, equate to social barrier. And I went through a stage of my life where I was really, uh, a loner. Um, my wife still thinks I am, but, uh, I'm, I'm talking about a real intense loner where, I, uh, I don't know, I was way off by myself out, uh, living by myself totally.

And, uh, so art was absolutely necessary for me to connect with other people. I mean, I, I didn't realize it was going to happen that way, but I really needed to make the art. I put it out there and all of a sudden people seemed to say, well, uh, we, you know, they seem to, uh, uh, enjoy what I did and also get something out of it. So, um, what else? You know, like, you know, you kind of talked about, you know, your art containing personal symbols. Yeah. Um, you know, so much of this started when I was a kid. Uh, I would go out in backyard and make songs. Uh, I, I was very, I was a true introvert.

And I spent a lot of my time focusing on the inside and going over and over and over again. I'm really interested in dreams and, uh, consciousness. Uh, a lot of intangible things is what really, uh, intrigued me. So, uh, from being a kid, it was, I mean, what else do you know except yourself? It's, it's in to me if you're going to make art about anything, you do have to start with yourself. Yeah. So, it's interesting. So, let's hold on in just a minute because there's a cloud over the, good. Okay. And we've got a lot with that. The cloud didn't come right when you said I was into deafness. You can do that. You can do that. You don't pay much.

So, you know, um, so can you talk some more about what role the unconscious plays in your work? Um, well, I focus so much of my time. Just one of my questions I guess about art in general is, is this therapy or just a thing that is driving me nuts? And, you know, I've been at it so long I can't tell anymore. And it could be if doing both. But, um, I have to turn myself inward for the most, for the longest time. And, uh, you know, there's almost never a night that goes by that I don't have some kind of doing them or, uh, I'm not thinking about, uh, I'm just very aware of, of, uh, the unconscious and the line sort of between consciousness and unconsciousness. And, and it's not even unconsciousness because clearly in, in dream state, uh, there's something going on and an awful, very weak life is going on.

And I look at people all the time and I think there's a whole world in their heads. You know, I mean, I know from my own experience that, you know, I walk around with all these different thoughts and feelings and ideas. And, uh, it's content. So, I assume everybody else is in the same boat. So, yeah, so what do you think about that? Have you discovered any kind of collective? Well, I think, uh, a wonderful rationale for what I do is, uh, from Carl Young and his idea of the collective unconscious. Uh, and I don't know that I've just grabbed hold of it to give myself a reason for what I do. But it's, it's always made sense to me that, um, that I can read a book that would written in the 1600s. And I can understand what that book is about.

And to do that, there is a, there has to be a connection between, uh, a basic connection between people. Uh, so that I'm always aware that my audience or any audience is doing half the work. It's not, uh, it's not just the, uh, the author or the writer or the, uh, it's a person that's receiving it. And what are they doing with it? Um, so I don't know, I can, I can see it really clearly in writing that I can understand. Uh, I can put myself in a place of just about anybody through, uh, through the words in my imagination. Uh, so, um, it's, it's a universal connection between all of us. Well, stop for a second. Do you want to pull in and get a closer shot?

And I think do you have a watch on or something? You totally address my next question because my next question was going to be like, what kind of responsibility do you give to the viewer? So maybe actually if you want to, um, are you ready? Yeah, you're ready. So maybe if you want to talk a little bit more about that, but in connection to your sculpture. You know, like when somebody's out. Go ahead, go ahead, just talk to yourself. So, um, so yeah, like maybe talk about what the viewer's responsibility but is in what you give them when you're, you know, in, you know, in context of your sculpture. Yeah, well, I've never felt like, uh, I'm cutting edge in the least. I still, uh, a lot of the, the people I look at are dead and, uh, the work, uh, live on. And, um, so when I put a work of art out there, I, I'm always amazed that I get a response from a lot of different people.

Uh, you know, it's not an elitist activity at all. It's, uh, I mean, I love it when kids enjoy the work and, uh, just a whole range of people, uh, that respond to it. And everybody responds in their own way. But, um, I have no expectations. And I mean, I feel fortunate that, uh, I just started making this stuff and people started liking it. And one thing led to another and, and here I am. So, um, I don't really expect any time. I hope, uh, that we can people at a fairly deep level. I, I want to say something else about humor, uh, you know, and, and an attitude. I don't know how anybody can get through this life without a sense of humor.

I mean, it, it, it, it, it's just so difficult, uh, life and itself, it, it's a very difficult, uh, challenging thing. My mother used to say, uh, all ages are for sisters. But, uh, um, it's true. I mean, the older I get, nothing gets any easier, uh, a lot of things get much more difficult. And, uh, but if you have the right attitude, you can get through day after day after day. But, uh, again, I'd say it's, uh, maybe that's the third part of it all. Uh, it's, it's a response to life that allows you to be okay to stay within joy. To say everything what? It's all right. If we send it all right. Um, um, I remember reading about the estimates, uh, some more. I never know if any of the stuff is true.

Uh, supposedly they go off by themselves and have a, a kind of spiritual time. And they come to the conclusion that, uh, the universe is, is the friend. And I like that idea. I mean, uh, if it's not our friend, I don't know that I want to live in this universe. So, uh, if it's out to get me, which, it just seems like a lot of time. Uh, uh, we're in real trouble. So, uh, I get to talk to him, you know, I choose to look at it like the universe is my friend. And so ultimately kind of feel that way. And something is connected to you to something that's almost benevolent. Yeah. Well, uh, a whole other part of this is, I, I've always been doxing both sides of things. Uh, you know, I mean, I, I say I want to focus on the light of time.

I'm not, my wife will tell you I'm not an optimist. I'm really a deep, deep pessimist. But I'm so pessimistic that it doesn't matter anymore. Uh, it's a very strange dichotomy, but I do see, I do both things. And I think a really good sculpture, uh, has a hand of darkness underneath it. Uh, you know, the fairy tales of, uh, are good because there's a wicked witch or a wolf or a dark element within it. And it takes both the dark and the light to make a hole. So you can't just, I don't know, I used to get sick of the word, uh, Octoboo. Yeah, I get sick of the word, uh, uh, whimsical because it sounds quite in a way. And yet, if you, if it didn't allow your contact, uh, I mean,

there is beautiful beauty and there's lightness and, uh, the world is filled with everything you can possibly imagine. So, uh, go ahead and pull that out. It's a little bit like, I would love to hear a little bit more about your process and like, what role process plays? You know, I, I think I'm, I'm basically, uh, very lazy. And, uh, I work really hard because of that. And I work, uh, I mean, again, another, uh, dichotomy, but, uh, I can remember, as a child, my mother, telling me to, you know, I was always skinny in, of ways, uh, to get around work. But when I, when I want to make something, it's, it's about getting it together with the simplest method I can come up with. And it's about, you know, I get this real kick out of seeing something, uh, for the first time.

Uh, it's in my head and then, oh, it's a, I put a few pieces together and, and then it's out there. And of course, a huge dance that goes around, uh, between the inside and the outside and things are constantly changing. I mean, I'm even, even now, I just, I take old sculptures, I cut them apart, I put them back together. It's just an ongoing process. Uh, but it's the simplest, kind of way I can approach it. It's not about impressing anybody with, uh, the amount of labor I can do or the, I'll, I'll never out finish a machine. Uh, the machine world is so, uh, we're fine now that, you know, we're not in competition. I think it's the same thing with the, with the camera.

Uh, the camera essentially took the artist job away from him as far as I'm concerned. Although it, then it also liberated the artist to look inside. And, to me, that's a place to look. Uh, so, uh, the process for me is about discovering what is inside and getting it out there. And the easiest way I can do it, seems to be the best. Um, how do you know when you're done? That's a really, that's a good question. Because I just was out there, you know, moving things around and, uh, I, I do this a lot. I try not to tell my wife I'm going to cut up a sculpture, but I, I do, you know, it's been around a while and I, having doubts about it or just maybe I have a different idea. Uh, I'll cut it up, change it.

I'll add something to it. And, uh, I just did that with another sculpture. And I've got to live with it a while to know for sure, but my instinct was it needed one more thing. So, um, and I mean, this, this could go on forever. I mean, I, I'll be done when I die and can't do anything anymore. But, uh, I don't consider anything totally done. I, I think it's all just imposterous. Interesting, yeah. So, yeah. Another part of it too is, you know, I love, uh, I love decay in some ways. You know, through a simple paint on metal and it rust and it get dull and it changes. But I love, I love old petuners. Uh, I've been playing with a lot of rusty thrusters and, uh, watching things change. So, you know, the real world has a way of constantly, uh, things are being built up and falling apart all at the same time.

Yeah, that's so interesting. So, after that plane finishes moving or anything, one of the things that I think would be interesting is to just go like a level deeper. Somehow of like, you know, what, how you are discovering, how you're discovering what you're going to make that day. Like, what is that? You know, like, how do you do that? Well, how about if I talk about the length between, uh, drawings? You know, we had, you and I had a conversation, uh, a while back. Uh, and I thought I was thinking about drawings. And why drew it after that I had this drawing. And it was really intense, a very intense drawing. And there was a, uh, I was, uh, carnival.

I was, I owned a carnival ride. And I was brilliant to show to a lot of people with huge carnival rides. And it was very old. It reminded me a lot of the, uh, what, what's the room? You can stop and, you know, the, uh, it's a, uh, a book and a movie. And it's, um, oh, my brain doesn't work like it should. And it never works when you really want it to. I'll, I'll tell you what, I'll talk about it. It's a book and a movie, can you say more? Okay. Uh, great expectations, I believe. And that, you know, when it comes to, uh, great expectations. Well, you know, you, uh, it was a record.

And there's a room in there where there's no woman love for it. Everything's in shambles. I think that's a great expectation. Yeah, the film is kind of like that. Like she, the little girl is like, run free. The golden boy and, uh, yeah. And, and he affirmed that she has a lot of money. And she's giving him money. And she sort of adopt him. But there's a whole room. Okay, let me go back and I'll, I'll try to pick it up. Okay, go ahead. Uh, yeah. In, uh, the great, uh, expectation. The room in there were, uh, it's all in shambles. Everything's falling apart. And this room that I had, that's what it reminded me of, uh, that, uh, it was a very old, uh, carnival ride. And it wasn't going in. And, uh, I, I was working on it, trying to make it run. But it had thin, gripping off of it from, uh, from old age.

And I just loved it. I thought it was wonderful. Um, and so I was just looking at some of my sculptures after that. And there's one out there that reminds me, uh, of, of the doing that I had. So there's a lot of interplay between, you know, the things that I see in day-to-day life, going on in my interior life during the day. And, uh, you know, in a way, I, I, I like to term, uh, day dreaming. Cause, uh, I mean, I'm, I'm dreaming at night, but I'm also dreaming during the day. And, and then I'm trying to connect that all with what's going on in the real world. And trying to decide what is the real world. Things have gotten a lot stronger, you know, I mean, I grew up in a time where we all talked about the universe. And now they're talking to talk about multi-universe.

And I, you know, I've been getting into, uh, some areas that I really can't totally comprehend. But it's very intriguing to me that, uh, you know, there may be more than one universe out there. Yeah, that's, yeah, no kidding, right? Well, they, they talk about it, so it must be there. I don't know. Do you, one thing I'm kind of curious about is when you go out and you're like, okay, I'm going to start cutting metal. I'm going to start doing this. Do you have a visual in your head, or is it happening all in the moment? It's a combination, actually. You know, my project really is a combination of, uh, a lot of times, I do kill you a lot of visual images with me all the time. And they pop out at different times. And, you know, I can approach it as if I'm going to grab what it is that is floating around in there.

But other times, it really is about, okay, you start putting things together and that has a natural way of leading you into something else. So, and then, like I said, it's a, it's an elaborate dance because reality, you know, I try to be a critic of my own work and stand back and, you know, if it's not working, I want to admit it. And, uh, I want to deal with it. But it's a constant interaction between, uh, different parts of myself. So, um, go ahead and get a wider shot again. And then, you know, so this is where I'm looking for that ending statement, that thing that kind of encompasses, you know, stuff, and, you know, find that landing place in your statement. When you were talking, I was wondering if nostalgia has anything to do with your work.

Yeah, I'm sure does. And I was thinking about it the other day, and, and, and saying something about nostalgia, it gets really old after a while. But, um, I do, uh, I do spend a lot of time on, on the path. Looking back over things. And so, yeah, if something has, uh, had already occurred, it's lost its bite in a way. It can't hurt you like it, uh, like something new and fresh. And so, I don't know, I spend a lot of time mulling over old things. So, maybe there's nostalgia, uh, looking back, uh, strung little memories. I have things that just pop in and out of my head all the time. And, I call it intangible, but they're just tiny little bits of pieces of things.

And, uh, I hope they're somehow making a way into the work. Well, and you talked about that earlier too. Yeah. So, um, you know, so what I'm looking for in this ending, you know, I'm going to ask you what drives you, you know, to keep creating. And what is that spark that's just like, why do you, why do you do be somewhere in there as like a good way to kind of like end it, you know. Okay, so, um, about what drug? Yeah, what's that creative spirit for you? Like, what is that thing that kind of, you know, what is it? What is it about art or what is it about creating that just keeps you? The movies have everything we do. Because he watches videos and movies all the time. And he watches old movies every night before he goes to see the reading sign. Let's just play. Yeah, I don't want to focus more in your idea. Yeah, I don't want to bring any new things in at this point.

I think it would be interesting to talk about your art. Like what it is about your art, you know, making and creating. Okay, so I think we're good. Are you ready? Yep. Yeah, I really think the key to it all is imagination. And when I was young, my parents always said I had too much imagination. Well, maybe you can have too much, but my world is a world of, uh, an interior world that very rich, that builds over into the outside world. And it's all come from the ability to have imagination. I think Albert Anton said that the key to what he was pursuing was from imagination. It's not a mathematical skill.

It's the ability to purchase the information in your mind and let it float around and bump up against other things. And that's what I do. So, um, you know, I think that will probably work. I want to try a little bit more. Okay, I feel like there's something. I feel a lot more entertaining. No, you're great. No, he's great. He's great. Yeah, there's a profundity to what you're bringing in, you know. Well, it does show. It shows in the work. It shows in maybe that wimpy, but like, yeah, I think another key element in all of this. Thank you. Thank you. I think a key element in so much of this, uh, start again, please. I'm sorry about the camera.

Sorry, sir. A key element in what I do is starting from real simple basic premise. I try to be honest with myself and honest with other people. And, um, you know, the core of it is a need to make sounds. And I think I would be bored making normal things. So I've just found a way to make things I want to make. But I try to keep, uh, keep a clarity about it. And try not to kid myself about any of this. Um, what do you think normal is? Do you have a definition for normal? Do you have a definition for normal? Yeah. I mean, we got through our lives and, yeah, we call all these things normal. And I don't know.

I'm sort of stuck being myself. So it's really hard for me to know. I mean, I could have definitely ended up as the abnormal, very abnormal. In fact, uh, James Charles said something once about artists are people who have gone crazy, but they come back. And I think that covers me pretty well. I've taken it to all the way to extreme where I really didn't know what normal was or what reality is. And, uh, but I came back and put my feet back on the ground. That's really interesting. I like that. And you know, um, one other thing I'm really cute. You want to, what else? No, I just have one more question for you.

Okay, I'm ready. So why do you create? What do I create? It's a second nature to me. I don't know what else I would do if I couldn't, if I didn't do this. I'd get bored off of them fast. I feel like we have a really good piece. I don't really need too much more. I think we could strike the interview here and kind of go on. If you want to make sure you got it covered, I'll keep going. I feel like we can. Yeah, for the longest time. Hold on. And ready. Good. Okay, go ahead. You ready? Yeah. For the longest time, I feel like I'm trying to be a juggler from short. And I'm throwing objects up in there. I want them to stay up in there.

And you know, the real world doesn't allow that. But I get as close as I can by making the sculpture to keeping everything. I mean, my whole life feels like everything is floating around up in the air. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, so you're just trying to maintain that lightness of being in that light. I love that title of that piece of the incredible lightness of being. Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, in a way, the lightness, the lightness of being is that we're also temporal. Everything is elusive and temporal. And it'll all be gone from there. And that makes it both profound. And it also makes it ridiculous. It's a ridiculous thing.

Do you think of that way working metal? I had a lot of reasons to work in metal that are just basic things. Like I wanted to stand up a certain way. And in the tensile strength of... I started out working in the wood. And pretty soon I started worrying about... I made some big sounds. And I started worrying about, well, what happens when the lightning hits it. So then I moved to working and deal. But everything had its own good qualities and mad qualities. And I think it still helped ground me a lot. Cool. I think we have a great interview. I think we could cut it. It's awesome. Yeah. It goes as well. Well, but... Yeah, they're just so big. Take your hand up, please. Yeah, they're so big.

It looks like fur. Well, some of them. But you can see them. Oh, yeah. They're very slight. You can see when they leave. I wonder if you can get this right. Maybe what we're going to have to do then... Is not put the whole sculpture in the piece. Zoom in on this part of the sculpture right here. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we're going to do. Tilt up a hair. A little more. A little more. A little more. Yeah, like that. And then I rest down a hair. And then... The other... Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Perfect. And then I rest down just a hair more. Yeah. Okay. You ready? Yeah. Now let's just see the dust. Yes. Right here. Yes. It's not clear where we're going. Oh, there. That was a perfect moment. But there's a lot of hair there. Yeah, we don't want the hair. So wait.

There was a big piece. Yeah. Just let it fall. Yeah. Just let it fall. Yeah. So let it... We'll fill that some bean with dust. It's the right spot. It's getting there. Yeah. You're in the right spot. We almost need it to just float more. So the ones that'll stay floating will just stay floating. That's good. There is hair. Yeah. Let me see if this one has anything on it. Turn to sea. Maybe this is like... That's a tough one. You try again. There's a lot of hair. You want me to take a dirty blanket like you said. Put that in my head here. Yeah. You try again. Thanks. Thanks for going with me on this. I don't know. Let's try again. Speed. Okay. With the blanket. Okay. And then that makes it blow quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of doesn't work. I think that... Let me show you something here. Probably the focus. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it is. So it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a little pull. Let's do... Let's just do a pull with one of them. Okay. Yeah. Put a lot in there. Yeah. I'm gonna stop. Yeah. There you go. That's good. Yeah. It's falling a heavily on the right. And get someone on the left. A little deeper. Oh. You're... Yeah. The hair will stay there for a second. But then he'll drop. Dudley. Okay. There you go. Oh, good that. It's falling so fast. It's not quite natural. Sure. I'm gonna stand on this side. You just put it down a bit. Yeah. That's true. I just get to lay in one place, like right in there, Casey. You could stand up on the boards. I want to get higher. Okay. You could do a 60. Yeah. Just let's it go on. I mean, just... Kills the head. Okay. Watch out. Let's see. That's good. We've got moats.

A lot of moats. We've got some hair. Oh, it's cool. It's dusty. Oh, my God. That's crazy. You've got a little more focus now. I think the problem was. Okay. It's a great idea. Can we close that door? We'll try to get one there. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. About two minutes on the roll here. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's a little go over there. It started coming. You need it to. It's hanging here now. It's going to the left. Okay. So now it's going right again. Yeah. So here we go. Speed again. Two minutes on the roll. Just what you want to drier than all over your studio. Okay. It's a lot of land. It's a lot of big stuff, but it's beautiful. Just hang on a sec. Yeah. Try to... Yeah. Just give me a good... Okay. Let's see what happens. I think it comes to see... There we go.

It's a lot of fur. It won't lie. It looks like gum. It looks like snow. It does. It's falling so much. Do you... So what happens if you just take that flag and just kind of borrow some stuff around here? What happened if you... What happened? Yeah. It's better. Get that. Yeah. Okay. Here we go. Good. Focused on the dust. That's good. Here we go. And got some dust and went for like a nice, just dust, not less hair. And then we'll pull back to that. Okay. Okay. Here we are at the sculpture. And here we are at the dust. Here we go. One, two, three. We will still have one, okay? Okay. It's nice. And here it looks good. I don't know if you can see much over there. You can. It's like a one. Yeah. Well, that's good. That's a bit too low. It takes a lower if you want and blow up. Yeah. It's pretty good, Dad. It's just...

Okay. Because that made a lot of... Before you got here right now... It's right now all the dust is staying in the air. But it's kind of hard to see. Yeah. Because that's what I wanted. Is that stillness? Of the dust. But I don't know if that's really possible. It's tough. Oh, look at it. Okay. Okay. This is cool. It's on Cosmos going. It's crazy. It's hanging. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You see? Okay, yeah. Jim Shenham, I'm focused pretty far forward. That's okay. There's some nice pieces in there, I think. It's about to roll out. And then go ahead and focus in. Okay, there it is. All right. That's awesome. I don't want to spend too much time.