Connect; 112; Paul Andrew Hutton, Judith Hendry, David Beining and Hue Walker

>> THE STORY OF THE OLD WEST IS A VERY, VERY COLORFUL AND ROMANTIC PERIOD OF HISTORY. IT'S WHY I WAS CAPTIVATED BY IT AS A CHILD, AND LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE HAVE BEEN. IT'S JUST A GREAT STORY. AND THE CHARACTERS ARE LARGER THAN LIFE. >> HOW DO WE SEPARATE HISTORICAL FACT FROM FICTION? RENOWNED WESTERN HISTORIAN AND AUTHOR DR. PAUL HUTTON EXPLORES THE LIVES AND MYTHS OF LEGENDARY CHARACTERS FROM THE OLD WEST. >> I DON'T THINK IT COMES AS A SURPRISE TO ANYONE THAT WE ARE FACING SOME VERY SERIOUS ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS. AND THE ANTECEDENTS THAT HAVE LED UP TO HUMANS' RELATIONSHIP TO THE NATURAL WORLD ARE HISTORICAL, THEY'RE POLITICAL. THERE'S VERY MANY OF THEM. >> ARE THE HUMAN RACE AND THE NATURAL WORLD ON A COLLISION COURSE? COMMUNICATIONS AND JOURNALISM PROFESSOR JUDITH HENDRY DISCUSSES HOW WE COMMUNICATE ABOUT THE NATURAL WORLD PROFOUNDLY INFLUENCES AND DETERMINES THE WAY WE PERCEIVE AND INTERACT WITH IT. >> IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE ANY OTHER PICTURE YOU'VE SEEN, BECAUSE YOU'RE INSIDE OF IT. YOU LOSE THOSE FRAMES THAT

WE'RE ACCUSTOMED TO. >> DAVID BEINING, IMMERSIVE MEDIA GURU AT UNM'S INNOVATIVE ARTS LAB, ANSWERS THE QUESTION: WHY DOME? WELCOME TO CONNECT, WHERE THE GREAT PEOPLE AND INSPIRED THINKING FOUND AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO. CONNECT IS NEXT! JOINS ME NOW. THE WEST IS A MIXTURE OF CULTURES. WHO DO YOU THINK, OUT OF ALL THE LEGENDARY CHARACTERS OF THE PAST, HAVE HAD THE MOST INFLUENCE, WOULD YOU SAY, ON HOW WE VIEW THE OLD WEST NOW? >> THERE ARE SO MANY SO FAMOUS, AND WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT WESTERN HISTORY, ESPECIALLY, OVER THE LAST QUARTER CENTURY, IN PARTICULAR, AND CERTAINLY IN THE FUTURE, IS THAT IT'S CHANGING. HISTORY CHANGES ALL THE TIME, OF COURSE, BECAUSE AS A NATION CHANGES, AS THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF A NATION

CHANGE, THE HISTORY, WHICH IS THE STORY OF A PEOPLE, CHANGES TO MEET THE NEW NEEDS OF THE NEW POPULATION. SO, FOR INSTANCE, I WAS READING THIS MORNING IN THE PAPER THAT WITHIN 20 YEARS, OVER 30% OF THE POPULATION IS GOING TO BE HISPANIC. WELL, THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE A REWRITING OF AMERICAN HISTORY, BECAUSE SUDDENLY THE HISPANIC STORY IN AMERICA IS VITALLY IMPORTANT. WE'LL SEE A SHIFT IN THAT. AND WE CERTAINLY SEE THAT -- THAT'S ONE OF THE FUN THINGS ABOUT WESTERN HISTORY, WE SEE THAT IN THE SORT OF SHIFTING HEROS. AT ONE TIME, GENERAL GEORGE CUSTER WAS CERTAINLY ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS WESTERN HEROS, INTERNATIONALLY FAMOUS, AND HE HAS MORPHED, AGAIN, IN ABOUT THE LAST HALF CENTURY, INTO A VILLAIN OF WESTERN HISTORY. >> RIGHT, THAT REALLY CHANGED >> WHILE SOMEONE LIKE CRAZY HORSE, SITTING BULL, WHO OF COURSE DEFEATED CUSTER, AND GERONIMO DOWN HERE IN THE SOUTHWEST HAVE BECOME HUGE HEROS. SO WE'VE SEEN A REAL SHIFT IN WHAT IS AN ACCEPTABLE WESTERN HERO. AND OF COURSE HERE IN NEW EXAMPLE IN KIT CARSON, WHO

CERTAINLY IS ONE OF THE GREAT FIGURES OF AMERICAN HISTORY. I THINK IF YOU TAKE DANIEL BOONE, AND YOU TAKE DAVY CROCKETT, AND YOU TAKE BUFFALO BILL, YOU ROLL THEM ALL TOGETHER, YOU STILL DON'T HAVE SOMEONE AS IMPORTANT AND AS IMPRESSIVE AS KIT CARSON, WHO DID SO MUCH IN HIS LIFE TO SHAPE OUR COUNTRY TODAY, AND HAD SO MANY UNBELIEVABLE ADVENTURES. WELL, HERE IN NEW MEXICO, OF COURSE, CARSON IS A VILLAIN. NOT SO MUCH OUTSIDE OF NEW MEXICO. HE'S SIMPLY FORGOTTEN. ONE OF REASONS: NEW MEXICO DOESN'T PROMOTE HIM. HERO, BILLY THE KID. >> BILLY THE KID, I WAS GOING TO SAY. >> WE HAVE BILLY THE KID BYWAY, WE HAVE TWO STATE MONUMENTS THAT ARE DEVOTED TO BILLY THE KID. THERE'S EVEN A BILLY THE KID CASINO, WHICH BILLY WOULD LOVE. AND SO THAT'S AN ACCEPTABLE SORT OF WESTERN HERO FIGURE FOR US TO PROMOTE. BUT NOT KIT CARSON. HIS HOME UP IN TAOS, WHICH IS A FABULOUS HISTORIC SITE, IS RUN BY THE MASONIC LODGE.

IT RECEIVES NO STATE FUNDS, AND THEY'VE DONE A WONDERFUL JOB WITH IT. BUT IT'S A VERY TELLING COMMENT ON HOW DELICATE THE HISTORY OF A PLACE IS, AND HOW CAREFUL PEOPLE ARE IN TERMS OF THE WAY THEY APPROACH IT. AND HOW STORIES CHANGE. STORIES CHANGE OVER TIME. IF THEY DIDN'T, I WOULDN'T HAVE A JOB, BECAUSE SOMEONE ALREADY DID THIS STORY. >> IT'S ALMOST MORE OF A POPULARITY CONTEST, DEPENDING ON THE EXCITEMENT OF THE STORY, OR WHAT IT GENERATES FOR PEOPLE'S MEMORIES. >> THAT'S RIGHT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT FASCINATES ME, ESPECIALLY ABOUT WESTERN HEROS, AND I'VE WRITTEN A LOT ABOUT WESTERN HEROS, IS HOW THEY CHANGE OVER TIME, AND WHAT THAT THEN TELLS US ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO EITHER ADMIRE THEM OR DON'T ADMIRE THEM. WHAT'S GOING ON? SO SOMETIMES IF WE STUDY HISTORY, IT TELLS US MORE ABOUT OURSELVES TODAY, WHERE WE'RE GOING, THAN IT TELLS US ABOUT WHERE WE'VE BEEN. >> WHAT IS IT ABOUT, AS YOU SEEM TO ALLUDE TO, ABOUT LAWMEN, THE GOOD GUYS, THE BAD GUYS, THE OUTLAWS OF THE OLD WEST, THAT WE AS A

SOCIETY SORT OF HOLD IN SUCH HIGH REGARD? >> WELL, THE STORY OF THE OLD WEST IS A VERY, VERY COLORFUL AND ROMANTIC PERIOD OF HISTORY. IT'S WHY I WAS CAPTIVATED BY IT AS A CHILD, AND LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE HAVE BEEN. IT'S JUST A GREAT STORY, AND THE CHARACTERS ARE LARGER THAN LIFE. AND, OF COURSE, THE FORCES THAT THEY WERE UP AGAINST SEEM SO INCREDIBLE. AND THEY ACTUALLY BECOME, I THINK FOR AMERICANS ESPECIALLY, ALMOST A CREATION MYTH. LIKE THE ANCIENT GREEKS HAD THE STORY OF JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS AND THE GOLDEN FLEECE, OR THE ENGLISH HAD KING ARTHUR AND CAMELOT. THIS IS HOW A NATION FORMS AN IDENTITY. AND ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT THINGS FOR A NATION OF IMMIGRANTS, AND FOR A NEW NATION, AND WE'RE BOTH, IS THAT WE HAVE NO IDENTITY. WHO ARE WE? WELL, CERTAINLY IN THE 19th CENTURY, AND FOR MUCH OF THE 20th CENTURY, IT WHO TOLD US WHO WE WERE. AND SO PAT GARRETT AND BILLY

THE KID, AND WILD BILL HICKOK AND JESSE JAMES, THESE BECAME OUR HECTOR, OUR ACHILLES. THESE BECAME OUR GREAT LEGENDARY FIGURES. AND THE REAL STORIES ARE PRETTY IMPRESSIVE, THE REAL STORIES ARE PRETTY AMAZING. AND IT DOESN'T TAKE TOO MUCH WORK TO EMBELLISH THEM AND MAKE THEM EVEN BETTER. THERE ARE MORE MOTION PICTURES MADE ABOUT BILLY THE KID THAN ANY OTHER HISTORICAL CHARACTER IN AMERICAN HISTORY. >> HOW DO WE SEPARATE LEGEND FROM MYTH, OR FACT FROM FICTION, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE HISTORIC EVENTS? >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WORRY ABOUT IN MY FIELD, IN TERMS OF ACADEMIC WESTERN HISTORY, IS THAT I THINK A LOT OF MY COLLEAGUES IN THE FIELD WORK VERY HARD TO TAKE ALL OF THE ROMANCE AND ALL OF THE EXCITEMENT OUT OF THE STORY OF THE WEST, AND INDEED, THEY'RE SORT OF KILLING THE GOOSE THAT LAYS THE GOLDEN EGG FOR WESTERN HISTORY. BUT CERTAINLY IN THE BROADER SORT OF POPULAR MINDSET, AS WE'VE SEEN WITH THE SUCCESS OF LONESOME DOVE, OF STEPHEN AMBROSE'S BOOKS ON THE WEST, UNDAUNTED COURAGE, OF BOOKS

ABOUT CUSTER, AND BLOOD AND THUNDER, HAMPTON SIDES' RECENT BOOK ON KIT CARSON, THEY SHOW A HUGE APPEAL. ONE OF MY FAVORITE WESTERN FILMS IS THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE, WITH JOHN WAYNE AND JIMMY STEWART. IT'S THE STORY OF A WESTERN LEGEND THAT'S PROVEN FALSE, AND AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE FILM, WHEN IT TURNS OUT THAT JIMMY STEWART, THE SENATOR FROM WYOMING, IS NOT THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE AFTER ALL, AND THAT HIS WHOLE CAREER HAD BEEN BUILT ON A LIE, THE NEWSPAPER REPORTER TEARS UP HIS NOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW AND SAYS, IN WORDS WRITTEN FOR HIM BY THE SCREENWRITER, JAMES WARNER BELLAH: "THIS IS THE WEST, SIR. WHEN LEGEND BECOMES FACT, WE PRINT THE LEGEND." AND THERE'S A LOT OF THAT. THAT'S A WESTERN HISTORIAN THAT'S -- THERE'S ALWAYS A PUSH, A PULL, A TUG AS YOU TRY AND BALANCE THAT OUT. YOU WANT TO HAVE THE EXCITEMENT, BUT YOU ALSO WANT TO TELL REAL STORIES

ABOUT REAL PEOPLE, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT RESONATES. >> NOW, IN THE OLD DAYS, NEW MEXICO WAS ACTUALLY THE CENTER OF THE MIX OF CULTURE, AND AS YOU WERE SAYING, THAT HASN'T CHANGED MUCH. I GUESS IT COMES IN AND OUT OF POPULARITY WITH WHO THE PLAYERS. >> IT WAS HERE IN THE WEST THAT THE AMERICA WE KNOW TODAY WAS ALREADY BEING FORMED. AND ACTUALLY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE FUTURE, BUT OF COURSE IT WAS THE WILD WEST. PEOPLE -- I MEAN, IT WAS PRETTY GRIM. FOLKS DON'T GET ALONG SOMETIMES. >> YOU CAN END UP WITH A HANGING IN THE TOWN SQUARE. >> YEAH. SO THAT'S PART OF THE STORY. AND WE DON'T WANT TO SKIP OVER THAT. BUT I THINK THERE'S A POSITIVE POINT TO BE SEEN IN HOW THE WEST WAS THE FORERUNNER OF THE NEW AMERICA. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY. AND I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS ALL AMERICANS DO, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN COME FROM ANYWHERE. I'M AN ORPHAN FROM GERMANY. I CAME OVER ON THE BOAT IN 1952. BUT, DO YOU BUY INTO THE

STORY? DO YOU EMBRACE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN? DO YOU KIND OF GO INTO THAT SECULAR RELIGION THAT WE HAVE ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION, THE BILL OF RIGHTS, WHO WE ARE AS A PEOPLE, ABOUT THE SORT OF FUNDAMENTAL VALUES OF AMERICA? AND DO YOU BUY INTO THE STORY OF AMERICA? PART OF THAT STORY, A MAJOR PART OF IT, IS THE STORY OF THE AMERICAN WEST. AND THE PEOPLE DO. PEOPLE DO. SO HISTORY, THE STORY OF THE WEST, BRINGS US TOGETHER. IT'S A SHARED STORY THAT NO MATTER WHERE YOU'RE FROM, YOU CAN KIND OF, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN BUY INTO IT. YOU CAN BUY INTO THE RESISTANCE OF GERONIMO, CUSTER'S LAST STAND, THE BATTLE OF THE ALAMO, THE PIONEERS GOING WEST, YOU KNOW, THE STRUGGLES -- THESE ARE ALL STORIES THAT PEOPLE RELATE TO. >> DO YOU THINK THAT WE'RE SUBJECT TO HISTORICAL REVISIONISM, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE HISTORIANS AND NOVELISTS WRITE ABOUT HISTORICAL CHARACTERS FROM THE WEST? >> WE CAN CERTAINLY SEE IT HERE IN NEW MEXICO WITH THE STORY OF GERONIMO, ONE OF

THE MOST FAMOUS NEW MEXICANS HE WAS BORN DOWN AROUND WHERE SILVER CITY IS. GERONIMO, OF COURSE, WAS ONCE SEEN AS ONE OF THE GREAT VILLAINS OF AMERICAN HISTORY, AND THE LAST HOLD-OUT. SO FRIGHTENING WAS HE TO THE PEOPLE OF THE SOUTHWEST THAT WHEN THEY REMOVED HIM FROM ARIZONA AND SENT HIM FIRST TO FLORIDA, AND THEN FINALLY TO OKLAHOMA, THEY KEPT HIM AS A PRISONER OF WAR UNTIL THE DAY HE DIED, AND THEY NEVER ALLOWED HIS CHIRICAHUA PEOPLE, WHO WERE EXILED WITH HIM, TO RETURN TO THEIR HOMELAND. AND SO, NOW HE'S A HERO. >> AND SUFFERED MUCH, IN THOSE LATER YEARS. >> HE DID, ALTHOUGH IT'S SORT OF INTERESTING, AND THIS GOES TO WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, IN TERMS OF LEGENDS AND THE SORT OF ROMANCE OF THE WEST, HE ACTUALLY DID REALLY WELL. HE DIED WITH $10,000 IN THE BANK.

>> REALLY? >> YEAH. HE WENT ON THE ROAD. HE WENT TO FAIRS. HE WENT TO WORLDS FAIRS. HE WAS AT THE WORLDS FAIR WHERE McKINLEY WAS SHOT. HE LED THE INAUGURAL PARADE FOR THEODORE ROOSEVELT -- >> OH, MY GOSH. >> -- ALONG WITH QUANAH PARKER. >> THAT WAS LEFT OUT OF THE HISTORY THAT I READ OF HIM. >> YES. HE BECAME VERY FAMOUS AND HE DID VERY WELL. AND HE USED TO SELL HIS AUTOGRAPH. SO HE PROSPERED. YOU KNOW, HE WAS A SMART GUY, AND ONCE HE HAD THIS NEW LIFE AND HE HAD THIS NEW ROLE TO PLAY, HE EMBRACED IT. AND AFTER HE DID THE PARADE FOR ROOSEVELT, HE GOT TO MEET THE PRESIDENT, OF COURSE, AND HE ASKED HIM AGAIN TO -- IT'S 1904. HE ASKED HIM AGAIN TO SEND HE AND HIS PEOPLE BACK HOME TO ARIZONA, AND ROOSEVELT SAID, I CAN'T DO IT, SOMEONE WOULD KILL YOU, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, FEELINGS ARE STILL SO BAD. >> IT PROBABLY WASN'T A POPULAR MOVE FOR ROOSEVELT AT THE TIME. >> AND HE WASN'T ABOUT TO

DO THAT. BUT HE LIKED HAVING HIM IN THE PARADE. >> OH, I'M SURE. >> HE LIKED THE PIZAZZ OF THAT. >> OH, I'M SURE THAT WAS A REALLY BIG DRAW. WHAT ARE YOU WORKING ON NOW, PAUL? >> SPEAKING OF GERONIMO, APACHE WARS, AND I'M TAKING IT FROM -- ACTUALLY, I'M GOING BACK INTO NEW MEXICO HISTORY TO THE WARS WITH THE JICARILLAS AND THE MESCALEROS OF THE 1850s. SO THE MAIN PART OF MY STORY IS FROM 1860 ONWARD, AND IT'S THE WAR FOR THE SOUTHWEST. THE LONGEST WAR AMERICA EVER FOUGHT, 25 YEARS, BETWEEN THE APACHES AND THE UNITED STATES. FINALLY AT THE END, THERE WERE 5,000 AMERICAN TROOPS COMBING THE SOUTHWEST LOOKING FOR GERONIMO AND 34 WARRIORS, BY THE TIME IT WAS OVER. A FASCINATING TRUE CHARACTER THAT I'M USING, HE WAS A YOUNG BOY WHO WAS ON A RANCH IN SOUTHERN ARIZONA WHO WAS KIDNAPPED. A YOUNG LIEUTENANT FRESH FROM WEST POINT GOES OUT TO DEMAND THAT COCHISE, THE GREAT APACHE CHIEF, RETURN THE BOY, AND COCHISE SAYS, I DON'T HAVE HIM, BUT I'LL FIND OUT WHERE HE IS AND I'LL GET HIM FOR YOU.

AND THIS YOUNG LIEUTENANT SAYS, OH, NO, YOU WON'T, WE'RE GOING TO HOLD YOU HOSTAGE. AND COCHISE CUT HIS WAY OUT OF THE TENT AND ESCAPED WITH BULLETS FLYING AFTER HIM, BUT HIS BROTHER AND SEVERAL OTHER MEMBERS OF HIS FAMILY WERE CAPTURED, AND THE YOUNG LIEUTENANT HANGS THEM TO FORCE COCHISE TO BRING THE BOY IN. COCHISE DIDN'T HAVE THE BOY. WELL, THE BOY IS RAISED BY THE APACHES AND BECOMES AN APACHE WARRIOR, AND THEN WHEN THE ARMY IS FIGHTING 15 YEARS LATER, HE BECOMES ONE OF THE MAJOR SCOUTS. AND THEY GIVE HIM A NAME, BECAUSE THE ARMY WOULD GIVE THE APACHE SCOUTS NAMES. ONE WAS NAMED PEACHES, ONE WAS NAMED FUN. AND THEY GIVE HIM THE NAME MICKEY FREE, WHICH IS JUST A WONDERFUL NAME. HE'S ONE-EYED, HE ONLY HAS ONE EYE, AND HE'S ONE OF THESE PERFECT CHARACTERS WHO'S CAUGHT BETWEEN ALL THESE WORLDS. AND EVERYONE, BOTH THE APACHES AND THE WHITE PEOPLE, BLAME HIM FOR THE WAR, BECAUSE WE'VE ALL BEEN KILLING EACH OTHER FOR 25 YEARS OVER THIS KID, OVER HIM BEING KIDNAPPED.

SO THEY ALL HATED HIM, BUT THEY ALL NEEDED HIM. >> GREAT STORY. >> YEAH. HE'S MY TRUE CHARACTER. HE'S SORT OF A FOREST GUMP. HE RUNS ALL THE WAY THROUGH FROM THE BEGINNING, OBVIOUSLY, OF THE WAR TO ITS END WITH THE LAST OUTBREAK, WHICH IS ANOTHER INDIAN SCOUT, ONE OF HIS FRIENDS, WHO IS CALLED THE APACHE KID, WHO EVEN AFTER GERONIMO IS IMPRISONED AND SENT BACK EAST, BREAKS OUT AND BECOMES A FAMOUS RENEGADE IN THE SOUTHWEST. HIS TROUBLES ARE ALL OVER A BEAUTIFUL WOMAN, AND FINALLY HE RESCUES HER FROM THE ARMY AND ESCAPES INTO THE MOUNTAINS OF MEXICO, IN THE MISTS OF LEGEND, AND SO THAT'S HOW MY STORY ENDS. >> THANK YOU, DR. HUTTON. I THINK THAT'S BEEN A VERY FASCINATING STORY. I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOUR BOOK. GOOD LUCK FINISHING IT. >> JOINING ME IS DR. JUDITH HENDRY. LET'S JUST GET RIGHT INTO THIS.

WHY IS IT THAT THERE'S A PERCEPTION THAT THE HUMAN RACE AND THE NATURAL WORLD ARE ON THIS COLLISION COURSE OF SORTS? OF REASONS FOR IT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT COMES AS A SURPRISE TO ANYONE THAT WE ARE FACING SOME VERY SERIOUS ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS. AND THE ANTECEDENTS THAT HAVE LED UP TO HUMANS' RELATIONSHIP TO THE NATURAL WORLD ARE HISTORICAL, THEY'RE POLITICAL, THERE'S VERY MANY OF THEM. BUT I THINK IN THE BOOK, I TALK ABOUT THREE MAIN INFLUENCES THAT HAVE LED TO OUR CURRENT SITUATION, AND THE FIRST OF THESE IS KIND OF CONTROVERSIAL AND QUITE SURPRISING WHEN IT CAME OUT IN THE 1970s. AN AUTHOR BY THE NAME OF LYNN WHITE, JR. LEVELED A SCATHING INDICTMENT AGAINST CHRISTIANITY AS ONE OF THE CAUSES OF OUR ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS. >> INTERESTING. >> BACK THEN IN THE 1970s

WHEN THIS WAS FIRST PUBLISHED, THAT WENT THE EQUIVALENT OF TODAY'S VIRAL, AND IT REALLY STARTED A WHOLE NEW DIALOGUE ABOUT THE ROLE OF JUDEO-CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE AND OUR ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS. CERTAINLY CHRISTIANITY HAS LED TO WHAT WHITE TERMS THE ARROGANCE OF HUMANS TOWARDS NATURE IN THIS DOMINIUM PARADIGM, WHERE WE ARE HERE AND NATURE IS BELOW US, AND THAT IS ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD, GOD'S PLAN. AND NOW THERE'S A WHOLE AREA OF RESEARCH AND THINKING CALLED ECO-THEOLOGY THAT JUST LOOKS AT THE ROLE OF CHRISTIANITY IN DETERMINING HUMAN'S RELATIONSHIP TO THE NATURAL WORLD. ANOTHER VERY SIGNIFICANT IMPACT IN THE WAY THAT WE VIEW AND TREAT THE NATURAL WORLD WAS THE ENLIGHTENMENT. PRIOR TO THE ENLIGHTENMENT, YOU KNOW, WITH JOHN LOCKE AND FRANCIS BACON, IN ROUGHLY THE 16th AND 17th CENTURIES, PRIOR TO THAT THE NATURAL WORLD WAS SEEN AS ORGANIC, AND NATURE WAS THIS LOVING, GIVING

MOTHER EARTH CHARACTER WHO OBVIOUSLY WAS SOMETIMES CAPRICIOUS AND NOT QUITE SO LOVING. BUT ONCE THE ENLIGHTENMENT HAPPENED, ONCE WE STARTED VIEWING NATURE NOT AS THIS ORGANIC MOTHER WHOLE, BUT WE STARTED VIEWING NATURE AS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE OBSERVED THROUGH SCIENTIFIC MEANS, IT COULD BE DISSECTED AND WE COULD UNDERSTAND IT AND, THEREFORE, CONTROL IT. A THIRD INFLUENCE ON THE WAY THAT WE VIEW AND TREAT THE NATURAL WORLD IS THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION. IN THE 19th CENTURY, WE REALLY STARTED USING NATURAL RESOURCES WHEN WE WERE ABLE TO PUT INTO EFFECT MASS MANUFACTURING TECHNIQUES, WHEN WE WERE REALLY ABLE TO HAVE THE MACHINERY TO ACTUALLY CONTROL AND REALLY DESTROY THE NATURAL WORLD. >> WHICH UNDERSCORED THE CONTROL THAT WE'D GOTTEN AFTER THE ENLIGHTENMENT. >> ABSOLUTELY. WE FIGURED OUT HOW TO DO IT, AND NOW WE'VE PUT ALL THESE

FACTORS INTO PLACE. PEOPLE MOVE FROM RURAL AMERICA INTO THE URBAN CENTERS, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THAT PERFECTLY PACKAGED TOMATO AND THE NATURAL RESOURCES WHERE THAT TOMATO CAME FROM ARE NOW VERY DISTANT, VERY SEPARATE. WE HAVE VERY LITTLE CONCERN AT THIS POINT FROM WHERE OUR FOOD COMES FROM, OR WHERE THE RESOURCES COME FROM THAT ARE USED TO PRODUCE EVERYTHING WE PURCHASE, WITHOUT EXCEPTION. >> WHAT IS ENVIRONMENTAL COMMUNICATION, AND WHY IS IT IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE PRODUCTS THAT WE'RE CONSUMING ARE FROM NATURE? >> ENVIRONMENTAL COMMUNICATION IS A RELATIVELY NEW AREA OF RESEARCH AND INQUIRY WITHIN THE COMMUNICATION DISCIPLINE, AND IT'S BASED ON THE FUNDAMENTAL PREMISE COMMUNICATE ABOUT THE NATURAL WORLD PROFOUNDLY INFLUENCES, AND TO SOME EXTENT, TO A LARGE EXTENT, IN FACT, DETERMINES HOW WE VIEW AND TREAT THE NATURAL

WORLD. THAT MOST OF MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE NATURAL WORLD COMES TO ME FROM SOMEBODY ELSE, OR SOMETHING ELSE, NOT FROM MY OWN PERSONAL UNDERSTANDING OR EXPERIENCES. OUR PERCEPTIONS OF THE NATURAL WORLD AND HOW WE ARE TREATED ARE LARGELY MASS MEDIATED. NOT ENTIRELY, BUT THEY'RE LARGELY MASS MEDIATED. WE ARE BOMBARDED DAILY WITH MESSAGES ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT ALL OF THESE MESSAGES, WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM, WHO'S PRODUCING THEM. >> THE MOTIVATION BEHIND THEM. >> EXACTLY. WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THESE MESSAGES. SO AS A FIELD OF STUDY, WE LOOK AT THINGS LIKE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVERTISING, WE LOOK AT NEWS REPORTING, WE LOOK AT THINGS LIKE THE MESSAGES THAT ARE SENT VIA THINGS THAT WE WOULDN'T REALLY EVEN THINK ABOUT TOO MUCH. FOR EXAMPLE, GREETING CARDS, OR CHILDREN'S BOOKS, OR POPULAR CULTURAL MESSAGES

LIKE TELEVISION SHOWS, AND ON AND ON. THE LIST IS ENDLESS. >> YOU WRITE IN YOUR BOOK ABOUT HOW THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE NATURAL WORLD AND THE HUMAN WORLD IS BROKEN. >> ANOTHER, OR THE SECOND MESSAGE THAT IS IN ALMOST ALL OF THESE MESSAGES THAT WE RECEIVE IS ONE OF ANTHROPOCENTRISM, WHICH IS A VERY HUMAN CENTERED WAY OF VIEWING THE WORLD, AND IT FUNDAMENTALLY MEANS THAT THE ONLY REAL VALUE OF NATURE IS AS A RESOURCE FOR HUMANS. THAT IF NATURE ISN'T USEFUL TO HUMANS IN ONE FORM OR THE OTHER, EITHER TO CHOP DOWN AND MAKE A PRODUCT OUT OF, OR FOR US TO GO CAMPING AND HIKING IN, IF IT ISN'T USEFUL TO US IN SOME WAY, THERE IS NO INHERENT VALUE. IT'S VERY MUCH A HUMAN CENTERED PERSPECTIVE, AS OPPOSED TO AN ECO CENTERED PERSPECTIVE WHICH VIEWS -- >> MUCH BROADER. >> YEAH, MUCH BROADER. NATURE HAS INTRINSIC VALUE

IN AND OF ITSELF, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT IT IS OF ANY USE TO HUMANS. >> IS THE PERCEPTION THAT THE WORLD MIGHT END MAYBE PART OF THAT DISCONNECT? >> APOCALYPTIC RHETORIC IS SOMETHING THAT ENVIRONMENTALISTS HAVE USED OVER THE MANY DECADES TO TRY TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT, TO TRY AND INSTILL A LITTLE FEAR. IN APOCALYPTIC RHETORIC, IT'S HUMANS WHO ARE DESTROYED AND NATURE IS FINE. THERE ARE A COUPLE OF KIND OF EXTREME RHETORIC, AND ONE IS THE CHICKEN LITTLE EFFECT, THAT ENVIRONMENTALISTS HAVE BEEN SCREAMING, THE SKY IS FALLING, FOR SO LONG, AND YOU KNOW WHAT, IT'S STILL THERE. SO YOU'VE GOT THE THEORETICAL RHETORIC OF THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THE SKEPTICS SAYING, OH, BUT GLOBAL WARMING ISN'T REAL, IT'S ALL A HOAX. SO WHAT IT TENDS TO DO FOR THOSE OF US, FOR THE LAY PEOPLE WHO AREN'T ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENTISTS, IT TENDS TO THROW US IN THE MIDDLE, TO SAY, WELL, IT'S PROBABLY NOT THIS FAR, AND IT'S PROBABLY NOT THIS FAR

OVER HERE, IT'S SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE. THE HEGEMONY OF THE CENTER. AND THE HEGEMONY OF THE CENTER IS NOT WHERE THINGS GET DONE, IT'S NOT WHERE POLICY IS MADE. >> STAYING IN THAT GRAY AREA. >> EXACTLY. >> BUT IN SOME WAYS, I THINK THAT'S WHY THE EXTREMES EXIST, SO YOU CAN GET TO THE MIDDLE. >> IT'S A VERY COMFORTABLE PLACE TO BE, AUGUSTA. >> YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION. >> YES, IT IS. BUT I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT WITH ISSUES LIKE GLOBAL WARMING, WE JUST SIMPLY CANNOT AFFORD TO REMAIN IN THAT COMFORTABLE LET'S-WAIT-AND-SEE. THAT COMFORTABLE MIDDLE JUST ISN'T GOING TO WORK FOR US. WE NEED TO ACT. >> OR THINK ABOUT IT, CONSIDER IT, ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING. THIS HAS BEEN A FASCINATING TOPIC, REALLY GREAT. >> EXCELLENT. I HAVE THOROUGHLY ENJOYED >> ME, TOO. >> OUR INTEREST IS IN USING

NEW MEDIA AS A FOCAL POINT TO BRIDGE DISCIPLINES AND CREATE NEW KNOWLEDGE. >> FULLDOME THEATER AT THE PLANETARIUM WAS THE FIRST VR, AND THEN ARTISTS STARTED MASHING IN, KNOCKING DOWN THE DOOR AND SAYING, LET ME DO SOMETHING IN HERE. >> I BEGAN TO HANG OUT WITH THE COGNITIVE SCIENTISTS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE DEEPLY INTO PERCEPTION, AND ALL THE MATH AND STUFF, AND TOOK THIS OTHER DIRECTION IN MY ART INTERESTED IN HOW WE SEE. >> WHEN YOU GO INTO A DOME, INTO A FULLDOME THEATER, ONE IS, YOU'RE NORMALLY AROUND A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE. YOU GET BACK IN THE SEAT, THE LIGHTS GO OUT, AND YOUR EYES AND YOUR EARS ARE COMPLETELY FILLED WITH THE EXPERIENCE THAT'S BEEN CREATED FOR YOU. IT'S FOR A BIG AUDIENCE. IT SLOWS YOU DOWN, AND IT

CREATES THESE EXPERIENCES OTHER PICTURE YOU'VE SEEN, BECAUSE YOU'RE INSIDE OF IT. YOU LOSE THOSE FRAMES THAT WE ARE ACCUSTOMED TO, AND YOUR PERIPHERAL VISION IS ENGAGED. YOU CAN SENSE THE REST OF THE AUDIENCE, IN THAT WE'RE ALL IN IT AT ONCE, SO IT CREATES EXPERIENCES THAT CAN

REALLY TAKE YOU TO DIFFERENT