Election New Mexico 2002: Bonds on the Ballot

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4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4 4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4 and state facilities in every corner of New Mexico.

In this special broadcast, I'll walk you through each of the proposed bonds and explain what they are. This program is not intended to take a position for or against the bonds, but simply to provide information to you the voter. Before we get to the individual bond issues, let's take a look at exactly what a bond is and just how it works. Bonds are used to pay for capital projects, such as constructing new buildings or renovating old ones, buying equipment in vehicles, and purchasing new books. The legislature and the governor decide which projects are most in need of money without tapping into the state budget. Those projects are paid for with money borrowed through the sale of bonds. The funds to pay back that borrowed money come from increased property taxes. The bonds are paid off over a 10-year period. The money from the first bond you'll see on the ballot, bond A, would be used for senior citizen facility improvements and acquisitions throughout the state. The money from this almost $11 million bond

would be used for such projects as buying vehicles, furniture, meal equipment, and appliances for senior centers across New Mexico. Other funding in bond A would go toward general building and grounds and in facility improvements for senior centers. Senior centers in Bernalillo County would get the biggest amount, nearly a million and a half dollars. The Navajo Nation would get over a million dollars, and in both cases, most of the money would be used to buy vehicles for senior programs. Also under bond A, $350,000 would be given to the Espanyola Senior Center in Rio-Ribba County to design, construct, and equip a new adult daycare center. In addition, $275,000 would be given to purchase defibrillators for the aging network statewide. $250,000 would be used to make improvements to the Mary Esther Gonzalez Senior Center in Santa Fe County. And $200,000 would go to plan, design, and construct a senior center at Simran in Colfax County.

What does this mean to the taxpayer? Well, to people with property valued at $100,000 and a $33,000 net taxable value, bond A would meet a yearly tax increase of about $1.31, that's $13.15 over a 10-year period. Joining me to talk about bond A, or my first guess, Michelle Luhan-Grisham, is director of the New Mexico State Agency on Aging. And Bob Luhan is the administrative services director for that agency. Welcome to both of you. Thank you, Joe. We're delighted to be here. Michelle, let me turn to you first as the director. What, how many elderly people, how many senior citizens are there in New Mexico? 100% of the population. I didn't let you finish. There's about 280,000 persons, 60 years of age and older. And that's roughly about 12% of the general population in New Mexico. That figure is, we talk about the baby boomers. That figure's going to grow, isn't it?

Huge. We're going to double by 2020. Now you're looking at well over half a million persons, 60 and over. That's just going group, by the way, are those people 80 and over? Really? You bet. 100 and over. Because people are living so much longer. Absolutely. Bob, how do you define a senior citizen, an elderly person, for purposes of state services and so forth? Senior citizens are defined as individuals, 60 years of age and older, and we do serve other spouses also. Why should the, let me just ask a devil's advocate question here. Why should the general public, the voters, who might be watching this program, who are younger, maybe they're in their 20s or 30s, maybe they don't have to care for any of their parents, or whatever, maybe their parents don't even live in New Mexico? Why should they care about this particular bond issue? I'd like both of you to address that question. Sure. I think the most important aspect of these investments, is that it's an investment in your community. I've been telling folks, very soon you'll have more senior citizens than you have school-aged kids.

And remember, it's a family issue. Senior centers serve as a focal point for education, retirement planning, volunteerism. You might have kids in school who are in fact served by the volunteers who are trained and supported at a senior center, which reduces your costs for the education system. You know, the balances are enormous, and the rewards back to community members of all ages are enormous. Bob, we do address that question. Why should the voter out there watching this program really care about all this? One additional impact is the economic impact in the communities. There'll be purchases made within the communities, vehicles, equipment. The renovations are normally done by contractors in the area. So there's also an economic impact in terms of these projects. Speaking of vehicles, what is the price that basically just a lot of the advance and stuff are getting old? Is that the reason for this? Because a lot of the money goes toward vehicles. Right. A lot of the vehicles are either old. They have high mileage.

A lot of them are used in areas where there aren't rugged roads, there are bumpy roads and such. And so a lot of the vehicles are breaking down. About half the vehicles that are being funded, our handicap equipped vehicles also. So we've got quite a variety of vehicles being used. A lot of four-wheel drive vehicles for some of the tougher terrain in Mexico. Frontier areas. And you can't imagine what we spend as taxpayers in non-emergency medical or assisted transportation. In Mexico, typically, even Albuquerque to some degree, really arguably does not have a public transportation system. Now, here's a mechanism. If I give somebody a ride to the doctor, the value in that service alone is almost immeasurable. Because if they stay home, they get sick. It's a trip to the ER. It's a trip to the hospital. And we all pay for that. What about the rural people? You touched on it, Bob, a little bit. Do you have any idea how many of our elderly citizens in Mexico

live out from the cities and from the towns and need those special vehicles? Is it a large percentage, would you say? I would say so. Additionally, a lot of the centers that we're renovating in those communities throughout the state are a lot of times old school buildings, a lot of times they're older buildings also. So we're renovating a lot of those buildings out there. There aren't a lot of them being constructed. You know, rural in Mexico. Yeah, it's a safe issue. And in rural in New Mexico, Joe, actually seniors are economic development. They're asking for retirees to come in and to move into those communities. I'm sure you've seen ads for Southern New Mexico and Eastern New Mexico. And we've got kind of that sun belt environment, beautiful weather, home values, affordable forever. Well, let me ask you this. Suppose somebody moves in from out of the state. How long is it before they become eligible for some of these? They're eligible, the second thing I have to live here to be eligible.

Our whole purpose is to be available to folks who are 60. And we have targets. We have services for you if you're 55. We have services for you if you're 18 to 55. We have services for you if you're physically disabled in many circumstances. While the core of what we do really is addressing the needs of people 16 over, if you've got a friend traveling in from Texas, they are welcome at any time in any one of New Mexico senior centers. Just for the viewer that might not know, a defibrillator, what is that? A defibrillator is a device that's used to bring a person's heart beat back. There are devices that don't require a doctor to hook up to an individual, rather a trained individual can do it. The other day there was a report in the newspaper about the U.S. Census Bureau announced that New Mexico had the highest percentage of people under the poverty line of any state in the country, 17.7%. Are a lot of those people senior citizens? Yes, and in fact that 17 is actually 18% of the seniors

in the Mexico fall into that poverty category. That's about 40,000 people. And we also have one of the worst problems in the country with nutrition. And that absolutely is an issue that impacts New Mexico senior citizens. Now, but this bond issue doesn't pay for programs like this. This is capital improvements like building food. But without this infrastructure, you can't provide any of those services. So arguably you can't impact poverty issues and you can't impact nutrition issues and you can't impact health issues. And you can't promote volunteerism and community service without having an infrastructure of this nature. How would you both, both of you, much travel around the state a lot to some of these senior centers? How would you describe them to people who have never been in them? In other words, is there a wide range of quality of the services that are provided and particularly the buildings that the folks meet in and so forth? Either one, Bob. Now let me start with, there is a wide range of services. Not every community has a long-term care component.

An adult day care, a respite care center, Alzheimer's program. And as a result, that's going to vary a great deal, community to community. The buildings also vary. I might have Bob sort of share a little bit about the building aspects. A lot of the, again, a lot of the buildings are older buildings. And so we get a lot of seniors coming in from meals and so forth. That's why when you talk about that, a lot of the capital is going towards meal preparation, equipment, things like that, meal delivery equipment. A lot of the vans actually are delivering meals throughout the communities also. And I might add that in Albuquerque in particular, you've got lots of extra financial support so they're phenomenal. We need to expand them so more people have access. But in Navajo Nation, you're talking about a double wide in Simarone, you're talking about an old-school house where the, or county building and the roof literally fell in while people were there. Lots of money needs to be reinvested

in this infrastructure to make them safe and hospitable. Well, I want to thank you both, Michelle and Bob, for being with us and sharing your thoughts about caring for the seniors in our midst. It's a pleasure. Thank you very much. Stay tuned from Senior Centers. We now turn to Higher Education and Bon B. At almost $94 million, Bon B is by far the biggest bond you'll see on the ballot. Bon B funds renovation and expansion projects for colleges and universities around the state. It will also provide funding for information technology for full-day kindergarten classrooms and for capital projects at the state schools for the deaf and for the visually handicapped, as well as funding to meet the requirements of the Americans with Disabilities Act. With Bon B, New Mexico's six four-year higher education institutions would benefit most, getting over $50 million. The state's two-year institutions would receive almost $20 million. Additional funding provided under Bon B

would go to statewide educational programs and other public education institutions. Of the state's four-year institutions, New Mexico State University would receive the most money, more than $16 million. The largest portion of that $9 million would be used for infant structure improvements at the university's main campus in Las Cruces. The other money, a lot of the NMSU, would go to branch campuses projects in Alamogordo, Doniana County, Carlsbad, and Grants. The University of New Mexico would be the next biggest recipient under Bon B with almost $13.5 million in funding. More than $7.5 million of those dollars would go toward renewal and renovation of buildings and high tech facilities at the university's main campus in Albuquerque. Branch campuses in Gallup, Valencia, and Taos also would get funds. In addition, $2 million would go to UNM's Health Sciences Center for Patient Care Equipment.

New Mexico tech would get more than $8 million for a new student services building and for expansion and improvements at the campus in Secoro. More than $7 million of Bon B would go to New Mexico Highlands University in Las Vegas with more than $4.5 million for a new science and technology building. Remaining funds would be used for renovations and expansions at the campus. Eastern New Mexico University in Portalos would get almost $6 million, most of it for a new communication center. Other projects would include improvements to the university's main campus as well as branch campuses in Roswell and Ruedozo. Western New Mexico University in Silver City would get almost $5 million for campus improvements and renovation of the Martinez Phelps Dodge Building. New Mexico's two-year institutions also would gain under Bon B. Albuquerque's Technical and Vocational Institute

would get almost $5 million for campus improvements and for a pedestrian overpass across University Boulevard. $4.7 million would go to San Juan College to renovate and expand the library and student center at the campus in Farmington and for other improvements. New Mexico Junior College in Hobbes would get almost $4 million for the Ben Alexander Learning Center and other improvements. Others that would receive funding include Luna Vocational Technical Institute, Mesa Technical College, Northern New Mexico Community College, Santa Fe Community College, and Clovis Community College. Several other public institutions and programs are included in Bon B. The New Mexico Military Institute in Roswell would get $3 million. The New Mexico School for the Deaf and Santa Fe would receive $5 million and $1 million would go to the New Mexico School for the Visually Handicapped in Alamogordo. Further statewide funding in Bon B

would include $5 million to buy portable classrooms or build classrooms for Full Day Kindergarten, almost $2.5 million for statewide technology infrastructure projects at New Mexico Higher Education Institutions and $2 million to meet safety requirements and increase handicapped accessibility at various institutions. Bon B, the largest on the ballot, also would have the biggest impact on taxpayers. For someone with property valued at $100,000 with a $33,000 net taxable value, Bon B, if passed, would equal a yearly tax hike of $11.35. Over a 10-year period, Bon B would cost that taxpayer $113.54. Joining me in this studio to discuss Bon B are my next two guests. Former New Mexico Governor Gary Cor Others is the statewide co-chair for the 2002 Geo-Bon for Education Campaign Committee. Dr. Bruce Hamlet is the Executive Director

of the State Commission on Higher Education. Welcome both of you gentlemen. Thank you. First, the same question really, Bon B is mostly for capital improvements, buildings and things of that nature. Why are buildings important to the quality of education? Well, the buildings are where the students gather with the faculty members to learn the material that they're studying. And we need to realize as we look across the state that many of the buildings on our universities in particular are 40, 50 years old, and they need to have replacement of air conditioning, plumbing systems, the wiring, the electrical systems, et cetera. Beyond that, students now usually come to class with their own personal computer. They need a place to plug it in. They need to be able to use that computer throughout the campus. And that's part of the, again, their infrastructure changes to accommodate new student learning, and it's all about student learning. Governor Cor Others, do you believe that for example, the attitude of students is affected by the quality of the buildings they're in?

Oh, absolutely. Everyone wants to go to campus. It's comfortable, it's safe, that has all of the technology that Bruce referred to. And as I look at the list of projects that are being financed by this particular bond issue, many of them are expansions into rural areas through the branch colleges. And we need to reach out to those communities, the Almagrodos and grants, and so on and so forth, and make sure that they have adequate buildings as well. It is a lot less expensive to go to school in some of these two-year college programs, at least initially, before you transfer to the six-year college program, they need the capacity to accommodate the students. How often are the voters asked to approve bond issues such as bond B? Typically, every two years as a general obligation bond that we take to the voters, and they've been very supportive throughout the history of the state, pretty much, with one exception. With one exception? That was in the early 90s. There was, that was defeated. It was probably tied into some projects that perhaps with hindsight should not have been on the list. Since 1992 on, we've had solid support from the voters. Is that the one I have some stadium improvements

or something that caused the problem? Oh, okay. Let me ask, play devil's advocate here. Suppose I'm sitting at home and I'm thinking, you know, I don't have anybody in my family in school, either in the lower grades or in higher education. And this is gonna raise my property taxes to some degree. Why should I vote for this? Well, I think that education is absolutely the number one economic development and quality of life issue in the state of New Mexico. We must continue to invest in this, if the state is to achieve any of its quality of life or performance goals. I just saw some benefit cost on investments in education. And for every dollar we invest in education, you can get benefits from three to eight dollars. We need to make these investments, part of it is an infrastructure. That's what bond is about. And it's just good business for any taxpayer in New Mexico or voter to go out and vote for bond B because it's a good investment. Dr. Hamilton, let me ask you, you've been involved for a number of years now. I guess the news is that you're gonna be resigning at the end of this year.

Congratulations. I guess that's the right word for that. But in any case, you've been directly involved in the administration of higher education. How strong is support in New Mexico for higher education, specifically an education in general, among the people? I've had the opportunity to serve in this position for a little more than nine years. I've learned a great deal about New Mexico and about New Mexico higher education. And clearly there is good support throughout the state for education, for higher education. If we look at the student body, it has grown significantly over the past decade, particularly at our community colleges, we've seen substantial growth throughout the state. And that's because the students know the more education they get, the more earnings they're going to have, the higher the quality of life, the more education in a society as a whole, the lower the crime rate, the better the cultural life, the better the economic growth of the state, as Governor Grutter said. The more education you have, the more the economy will grow. Has there been enough money? Now, you might say, well, there never is enough.

But this is not a wealthy state. We all know that. How severe has the gap between what you feel is needed in terms of finances and the actual finances? How big is that gap have been? I want to suggest to you that New Mexico has been fairly fortunate to fund both as public schools and higher education. Adequately hasn't been excessive. We find many states across the United States are much greater difficulty in terms of financing these things than we have been. But we do have a good bond rating. We're able to sell these bonds and raise the money for these buildings. We have been very good about paying back the bonds, which makes the people who sell bonds very happy. We could always use more, but I think we've been prudent. And I think we made our investments properly. I haven't seen in a long period of time a project that wasn't deserving. And I think the key now is that many of these projects, our renovation projects, everybody believes that we're building new stuff. But as Bruce went over with safety and technology and some of the other interests,

many of these projects will involve actually renovating buildings that have just deteriorated to the point they need this kind of investment. What about money from the state budget, Dr. Hammer? In terms of state annual appropriations for higher education, if we look at per capita income basis comparing New Mexico to other states, New Mexico ranks in the top five in terms of taxpayer support, given our resource base to provide that support. Currently 15.9% of the state appropriations act goes to higher education. That's a decline from 18% 15 years ago. But in most other states, it's about 10 to 12%. So we're doing well in terms of operating budgets. We don't have a lot of money in this state, but the focus and the priority has been on education, which is where it should be. Do you mean comparatively speaking where? Yes, I think you may have seen a poll in the paper recently that showed that the most important issue facing New Mexicans today is education. 41% of the people posted that is the most important issue. And it was probably 10 or 15 points

before you got to the second issue, which was probably water or something else. But New Mexicans have assigned a priority to education and as a consequence, I think it bodes well for bond issue B, because they believe it is the most important issue. Are the numbers of students and is the number growing? Are the more students in higher education specifically and then also in the lower grades? In higher education, there's about 104,000. It's been a slow increase. The real dramatic increase has been in the older adults who are coming back into education for additional training. They're getting their GED completed. They're coming into higher education for the first time. The average age at most of our universities now is 27, 28 years old. So there's a slow growth in high school graduates, but a much more rapid growth among adults. I might just interject a personal note. I talked for eight years as a part-time instructor at the University of New Mexico, here in Albuquerque in journalism. And I found that those older students were, in a lot of cases, very highly motivated, very, because they knew that they were there for a reason. And maybe they tried college before, maybe they hadn't,

but they were coming back and they were really motivated and really, really good students. That was my experience. I used to teach it in New Mexico State University. It was the same there. And we need to be able to accommodate these students when they come back. And I don't remember the number, but I think most of us now are expected to have to train or retrain seven or eight times in our lifetime just to keep pace with everything that happens. In this country, for example, I've had to take computer training. When I went to school, we didn't have computers. We had programs. I could make it operate. I know how to turn it on. I could boot it up. I can use a few of the phrases. But basically to stay current in whatever occupation you are, you're constantly having to go back to a university environment or to your college environment to retrain. And we need those. I happened to employ 350 people here in this community. We're always having to look to the two year college programs to support us in developing a human resource that we can utilize in our company. As our viewers have seen,

some of this money is going toward portable classrooms or new classrooms for kindergarten, full day kindergarten. Can we talk a little bit about that? Why is that important? Well, I have a passion for that. I am a member of Think New Mexico, which promoted full day kindergarten before the legislature. It has been passed. We're in a process of funding it. The very best investment we can make in education is in kindergarten. And get the students then, begin to teach them to learn and to reason. Get them excited about education. But until recently, we didn't have full day kindergarten. In some cases, we had very little kindergarten. This bond issue pays for some buildings so that in select schools, as we develop that program, they will have the facilities to start these kids when they're four and five years old. Very important time in their lives to begin the learning process. And I'm sure, Dr. Hammer, you've seen that too on the college level, junior college level. Superintendent Michael Davis and I have established on the state level, a strong K-16 partnership. We call it TAC, the Teacher Educator Accountability Council. And one of the models or principles

that guides our work is that college begins in kindergarten. The quality of the kindergarten education for students this year will have a direct impact on the quality of the college and university graduates down the line. Some of the money is also going for safety requirements and increased accessibility for the disabled folks in our community. Is that part of a, are there's part of federal requirements? Or is that the federal law does require ADA compliance? And our institutions are going forward on a compliance with that in the step by step approach. Something I want to emphasize is the lottery success scholarship program that New Mexico legislature established. We now have enough money in that fund to be able to say to students who are in the ninth grade today. If you stay in high school and graduate, there'll be funds to cover four years of tuition scholarships for you at any university or college in the state. We need to meet our commitment to those students down the through the scholarships

but to the quality of the buildings where they will be having their education down the line. So it's not just for this year and next year. It's for the next generation of students coming forward. How are the priorities decided? Our viewers have already seen kind of a breakdown of which institutions and which programs are getting which dollars. How is that all decided? It must be a bit of a push and pull, a tugging match there. I'm going to respond first because I've had some experience and I know Bruce has had even more experience. It's not decided well in many cases. All of these projects should oftentimes be reviewed by the commission on higher education. And I had a struggle to get the legislature to send them through or the universities to send them through the commission on higher education. But there's a lot of local sentiment that these buildings are needed. And oftentimes they will circumvent the commission on higher education go directly to their political leadership and get these on the list. But Bruce, times may have changed. The process I believe works much better than it has in recent years.

The commission has adopted a policy position that repairing buildings infrastructure is the highest priority. We've said that to every campus they've complied, you'll see 48 million dollars is in here for infrastructure as the first level priority. We've adopted other priorities in terms of using existing buildings, using community senators, et cetera. The legislature, as they've developed their list, worked off of our list and followed it very closely. And Governor Johnson has been very helpful because he has said, if it's not on the CHE list, he was likely to veto it. So the process worked very well with the legislature, the commission, and the governor. Well, thank you, I think on that note, we'll end this discussion of Bon Vee. I thank you both for being here from our Governor of Careathers and Dr. Bruce Hamlet. Books for public libraries and schools are the next item on the ballot. And look at Bon C, next. The third bond on the election ballot, Bon C is the second biggest. It would provide about $16 million to libraries statewide to buy books and other educational resources. More than $7.7 million would be given

to 770 public school libraries in every New Mexico school district. Almost $4.9 million would go to 75 public and community libraries, plus bookmobiles throughout the state. The remaining $3.4 million would be used for 25 public college and university libraries in New Mexico. Bon C would mean a tax increase of almost $20 over a 10-year period, or $1.95 per year. That figure is for a taxpayer with property valued at $100,000 and a net taxable value of $33,000. With me now in the studio to discuss Bon C, our former New Mexico governor, David Cargo, the chairman of the library books bond 2002 committee, and Ben Wachichige, the New Mexico State librarian. Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us. I'd like to pose this question initially, and then we can get into some of the more details. Why should someone watching this program,

a voter in New Mexico, a care about the library bond issue, in any case? Suppose they say, well, you know, I really don't use libraries. I don't have any kids in school. Why should I care about this, governor? Well, if they care at all about the future, they ought to take an interest in it, and it isn't just books on shelves. You're dealing with all kinds of other things. For instance, I started a library up in Mora, and we've gotten all kinds of computers for them. They have seven computers. People sign up to come in and use those computers every single day, and they're allocated almost by the minute. It's a great reservoir for information, and you know, it's kind of the poor man's university, because people can go in there and get all kinds of information and do all kinds of things. You simply got to support these libraries. We rank next last in the United States

when it comes to public support for public libraries and the number of books we acquire. That's not a very nice commentary on New Mexico. Then let me ask you this, how do you feel libraries contribute to, I'd like to go back to my initial question. Contribute to the wider welfare of the state, the general well-being of New Mexico. You'll find libraries in every corner of the state, whether you go from Clayton to Baird, New Mexico, to Lord's Word, to Gell, to Shiprock. You'll find a school library in every corner of the state. You'll find a public library in 33 of the 34 counties of the state of New Mexico. A county library. You'll find counties in libraries in New Mexico. And you find academic in 25 different communities. But what you find there are libraries in every community in the state of New Mexico. And libraries has always represented an institution

in which people can receive free information where they can go there for recreational reading. It is indeed one of the last bastions for free information. Do you feel that with the age of television and some of the other technologies that libraries, interested libraries, has declined some? And does that account for some of the low funding do you feel? And if so, what can be done about that? Well, I think reading in general has declined. It's happened to newspapers. It's happened in all kinds of places. But I can tell you this because I tracked it in the library in Moira. They have the highest lending rate per capita of any county in the state. And you see, people will go in and use it. It's amazing the things that you can get

in a library these days. Kids go in and do term papers. They go in and do all kinds of things. And so it becomes critically important. And you've got to start young people out reading at an early age. I have 9,000 books at home. And I've read every one of them. And let me tell you, it opens up a whole new world. When was the last time that the library community, if I may call it that, went before the voters of New Mexico and asked for more money in bond issues? In 1994, libraries, academic libraries, public libraries, school libraries appeared on the general obligation bond issue in 1994. It was for $8.5 million. And I can assure you that the funds were greatly appreciated in the news very wisely to acquire library resources. I'd like to ask you both this question or either one.

We talked a little bit about libraries in communities, even more, places like that. And certainly Albuquerque, Santa Fe, in Las Cruces, one of the larger cities. How do you get books to people, and is that included in the bond issue? How do you get books to people in the rural areas of this state, of which there are so many? Well, of course, in some parts of the north, they had bookmobiles. And then, as you establish libraries in various places, angel fire, just build a new library, then you don't have to do that. But otherwise, you take them in bookmobiles. There are a lot of places, but the thing is, this thing is so inexpensive. Do you realize that if you went down and bought four postage stamps, that's the total amount that it would cost you per year on a hundred thousand dollar home to support something that's really worthwhile. If you can't afford four postage stamps, well,

God forbid. Okay, thank you, thank you, Governor. Let me ask you this, Ben. In terms of people's ability to move ahead in our society, I'm sure that you would feel that libraries play a big role in that, even an increasing role in the subject. Can you talk a little bit about that? Sure, in today's society, on every age, from a five-year-old to a senior citizen, information is an important part of their life, in order for them to do their job, to improve their home, to work on their car, they come to libraries for information. Whether you're a high school student, elementary student, they also need to go to a place to do research. Where do they go? They go to libraries for information. It may not be in a traditional way that you and I did as we were growing up, and going to the book that my go to the library

as Governor Cargo pointed out, to use the internet to get the information. But where do you get free internet connectivity in this world, in the United States, in New Mexico? You go to your library to get free internet connectivity. So whether you get your information in books, whether you get your information through the internet, you come to a library for information. And without question, without information, how can we exist? How can we learn? How can we grow? And how can we accomplish the things that we want to? Is libraries are very important in people's lives. Okay, well, I want to thank you both very much. We have run out of time. Sorry to Governor to cut you up. But thank you both very much for sharing your views on the library situation. The State Fair and the State Armory Board are the next subjects of our bond D. State facility improvements and equipment acquisition are the focus of bond D. The biggest recipient of the more than six

and one half million dollar bond would be the State Fair Commission. Four million dollars would go to improvement projects at the New Mexico State Fairgrounds in Albuquerque. These projects include renovating and replacing horse stalls, other improvements and renovations, and correcting code deficiencies throughout the fairgrounds. The State Armory Board would receive the second largest amount provided in bond D, $2 million. A million dollars would go for improvements at the Onyate Complex in Santa Fe County. The other million dollars would go for Armory Rehabilitation and Renovation Statewide. In addition, bond D would give $500,000 to upgrade the Viagra Building in Santa Fe. Bond D, the smallest bond on the ballot, would have passed cost of taxpayer 80 cents a year and $8 over a 10-year period. Again, that's based on someone who owns $100,000 in property, which has a net taxable value of $33,000.

Here to give us a better understanding of bond D, our Brigadier General Robert Martinez, who is Deputy Agenda General of the New Mexico National Guard, and K. Schellenberger, General Manager for the New Mexico State Fair. Welcome to both of you. Thank you. I'd like to start with you, K, if I may. The State Fair is getting about, of the $6.5 million in the bond, getting about $4 million of the bond issue, if it passes. And most of them are for improvements at the State Fairgrounds, including improvements to the horse stalls. We saw a picture of that earlier. What is the problem with the horse stalls as they presently exist? Well, Joe, the horse barns and horse stalls are aging. They have been on the grounds for many of them for over 30, 40 years. And they're beginning to deteriorate. We need to go in, we need to renovate, and we also need to replace some of them. And we have about 1,000 of them that need to be either renovated or replaced.

Is it a safety issue, primarily, or? There are some that have become a safety issue, and we are addressing those, and we have also condemned one about 30 stalls at this point. What is the, in general, what do you feel is the importance of the State Fair to New Mexico, particularly, you might address this to people who, in our viewing audience, who don't go to the State Fair, who may not be interested in agriculture in the State, and ranching, and so forth. What is the overall importance of the State Fair to the State? I think it's two-fold, or maybe even three-fold, but it's an opportunity for people to come and showcase their arts and crafts, all the exhibitors are there, and even those people who don't exhibit, it's still an opportunity for those who do participate. And we're an economic impact on the city in the State. In 2000, we were over $30 million that went back to the State and to the City.

Now, these are motels, meals, things like that. People come in from out of Albuquerque, or maybe even people in Albuquerque, who are spending money in the State Fair. Yes, partially that goes to that. The largest tax is there. So the people, the businesses around us in the Bernalillo County area, do benefit from the events that are held on to New Mexico State Fairgrounds? I'd like to turn to you, General Martinez, about $2 million of the bond issue would go toward armories and so forth. Doesn't the federal government supply a lot of the money for the National Guard and for the reserves? Well, that's an interesting distinction that you make. The State has the responsibility for providing for the armories that the Guard exists in. So, I mean, it's a responsibility of the State. And this particular issue, this bond issue, will provide for some of the maintenance that we ordinarily cannot take care of within the budget that the State gives us

on a year-to-year basis. We've got some armories that are quite old, one in particular, truth or consequences, which is about 40-someone years old. I mean, it's the electrical system that it has is not up to code. And we just weren't able to take care of that within the existing budget that we have. So, we need to bring it up to code. We need to replace not only its roof, but we've got other roofs. We've got 31 armories across the State that we try to take care of equally. Some of them need new roofs. Some of them need parking lots paved when they were constructed that wasn't taken care about that time. And so, you know, these requirements build up and we need to take care of them right now. Well, along those lines, K, you were telling me earlier before the broadcast that some of those same issues apply to the State Fair too. You're talking about buildings that are really in pretty bad need of repairs. Is that right? That's correct. Most of the buildings have been there 30, 40 years, not just the horse stalls, but the other facilities.

We have roofs that are leaking that need to be repaired because when people come in to showcase their arts and crafts, the exhibitors, the building should be up where there won't be damage to the goods that are there. So we do need to take care of those buildings. We need to start maintaining them so that we can be assured that the State Fair will be there for generations to come. How old is the State Fair in New Mexico? The fairgrounds were constructed in 1936 where they are currently a stand at this point. So that's about 60, 65 years on that. But the Fair itself goes back well over 100 years. Was it held in different locations? Yes, it was. Around the State, did it sort of work out? I believe earlier it was held in Old Town, many, many years ago. And then in 1936, they moved to the present site. And there's something that I would like to add is that we are not funded through general appropriations.

To the State budget? That's right. So whatever the State Fair, whatever money gets it, it gets in issues like this bond issue and revenues from the State Fair, is that correct? Yes, we generate about $14 million a year and that takes just about $14 million a year to keep our gates open for the public. So there's not a big profit in the State Fair? No, there's not. Okay. General, one of the areas that's getting some, would get some funding if this bond issue passes, is the Onyachta complex up near Santa Fe. Can you tell our viewers what that is? The Onyachta complex is really the state headquarters for the Army and the Air National Guard of New Mexico. And it's about 300 acres just outside the city of Santa Fe itself. But not only is it the headquarters for the National Guard, the Army Reserve has a facility there in Armory and also the State Emergency Operations Center is there on the complex itself,

which belongs to the Department of Public Safety, the EOC does. So really, a portion of this money that is up for bond will help us, the National Guard, maintain the facility not just for ourselves and the soldiers, the women and male soldiers that we have, but also for the employees of both the Army Reserve and the Department of Public Safety Emergency Operations Center. And that Emergency Operations Center, does that coordinate things like searches if people get lost in the mountains, or is that where that's coordinated, or that kind of activity? Well, yes. I mean, they do all the emergency operations, either direct or indirect planning, so to speak. It's all conducted there. And in fact, when you have a request for the Army National Guard to provide helicopter support because we've got tremendous capability in the helicopters that we have, it would be planned out and coordinated through that EOC. You were telling me earlier too about a one facility

in which you were holding a recruiting session, and what went you to explain? Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because in many counties, or many cities throughout the state, remember we got 31 facilities, our structures are sometimes the largest structure that there is in that particular city, and I'm thinking about Lordsburg, New Mexico. If you need any kind of large-scale activity, it's going to take place in the armory there in Lordsburg, but you're specifically talking about a job fair that was held here in Albuquerque last Wednesday, when we had a particularly rainy day, and over 2,000 people showed up. You know, to try to better themselves, and they conducted it inside the armory that we have here on the Wyoming Boulevard, and even though the roof was leaking, I mean, people were able to take advantage of both our facility and services. Absolutely. Well, thank you both for being with us and explaining about Bondi. We appreciate it very much. One final bond issue awaits voters on the ballot.

Bondi could have an impact on water resources in New Mexico, and we'll look at it next. The last bond on the ballot, Bondi, relates to one of New Mexico's most pressing issues, water. More than $13 million would go toward water rights purchases and water projects. $10 million of the total would be used to purchase water rights to meet the state's obligation under the Pecos River Compact. More than $1 million would go to rehabilitate dams across New Mexico. Other money from Bondi would go for recovering endangered fish on the San Juan River, monitoring and metering wells in the Nambay, Pawaki, Tisuki area of Santa Fe County, and renovating the Yut Dam in Cue County. If passed, Bondi would cost a typical taxpayer almost $16 over a 10-year period. For a year, the cost would be $1.59. Once again, that's based on the taxpayer with $100,000 in property and a net taxable value

of $33,000. I'm joined by two of the state's leading water experts, Tom Turney, the New Mexico state and engineer, and Norm Gown, the director of New Mexico Interstate Stream Commission. Welcome both of you. Well, I'd like to talk a little bit first about one of the first things that's on the ballot here in Bondi, the Pecos River Compact. Norm, would you explain just what that is? That's what I think $10 million goes toward that, right? Thanks, Joe. The Mexico is a part of the Pecos River Compact which requires us to deliver water downstream to the state of Texas. Texas sued New Mexico in the United States Supreme Court in 1974. The decision came down in 88. These things take a long time and mandated that New Mexico never again owe water to Texas. We've developed a permanent solution to this Pecos River Compliance Problem, working with water users along the Pecos River. And the solution has the least economic impact of New Mexicans. We have to get more water down to Texas.

This bond issue provides for part of the funding for the solution. And it's very important for New Mexico's compliance. Lacka compliance will cost much more. Who owns those water rights now? Farmers and municipalities and just all sorts of water users up and down the river. Tom Terny, is there a similar situation in bombing Texas in bombing the Rio Grande, isn't there, really? Can you explain that briefly, even though it's not on this bond issue? Basically, Texas would like more water. And they want more water and better quality water. And so, yes, Texas is a threat to New Mexico's water supplies. Norman, let me ask you about the U-Damn. The U-Damn is in the eastern part of the state. Just what is the issue there? U-Damn is the only large dam in New Mexico that's owned by the state. It's actually owned by the Interstate Stream Commission. The Interstate Stream Commission built it in the 1960s to provide a water supply for nine municipalities in three counties in eastern New Mexico.

It's getting a little bit old. When things get old, they need refurbishment. The funding is to basically repair some concrete that needs to be replaced to repair in order to make sure that the dam lasts a very long time. It's on the Canadian River, right? On the Canadian River. Which flows into Texas. Let me ask you, Tom, attorney, a little bit about the issue of endangered fish on the San Juan River. We've heard a lot about the Silvery Mino and the Rio Grande, of course, including a recent broadcast that we did in which you participated. But what's the issue there? Actually, the water that they're under discussion right now for the Silvery Mino comes out of the San Juan Basin. And in the San Juan Basin, Joe, we have our own set of endangered species issues there. We have something called the Colorado Pike Mino. It's actually not a little tiny fish. It's one that's about this large. It's a big fish. And we are trying to recover it. And part of the items that we're going to be needing to do is

major infrastructure improvements up and down the river. Certain weirs that divert water, for instance, to the four corners of generating station. Big power plants up there. Large of fish, rearing and breeding facilities. And these are types of activities that are designed to allow people to begin to use the water up in that area. And we're also going to be addressing, though, how do you go about trying to recover this Colorado Pike Mino? And that's, as you said, that's an endangered species. It is an endangered species. Determined to be so by the federal government. That's right. It was listed. There's a difference between the Rio Grande Silvery Mino and the Colorado Pike Mino on the San Juan River. On the San Juan, there's been a recovery program that's been under developed since the early 1990s. And that problem has basically, the solution has agreed to. The money that is on the bond issue is a small part of the total funding for that solution. Most of it's coming from the federal government.

But this provides a good part of the state in the Mexico share. Colorado and Wyoming and Utah also are contributing to that. Okay. Interesting. Let me ask you about another item on this bond, Tom Turnney, the Nambay-Puwaki-Tosuki area. What's that? It's about wells, isn't it? That's right. And what this deals with is we have an ongoing adjudication suit. That's basically a determination of who owns what water. And what this item deals with is drilling certain types of observation wells as a part of the suit, as well as putting in certain types of monitoring equipment of, for instance, on a wellhead, which will all inner bring settlement to the amant adjudication suit. So the suit, can you tell us about that suit in about 30 seconds or a minute or is it? Basically, it's a determination of who owns the water rights for Tosuki Pueblo, Nambay Pueblo, San Juan de Fonse Pueblo, Puwaki Pueblo, as well as all the non-Indians that live in that entire valley. And basically, for that suit to go forward or to be determined, you need facts, basically.

That's right. So that's what this part of the body is. Trying to find out how much water is in there, and once you find out how much water, or you have better knowledge of how much water is in there, how do you go about divving it up? And that's where the measuring device is coming up. And then there's another item on the ballot, or in this bond issue, flood control dams. Now they are all over the state, right? These flood control dams have been constructed probably of most of them over 50 years ago. They were put in by the United States soil conservation service. And they had a life of about 50 years. And after 50 years, a dam needs to be upgraded or rehabilitated. And these dams, a lot of them are on Arroyas. They're scattered all over the state. Some of them are down in the Helios San Francisco area. Some of them in the Along the Pecos. Some of them along the Rio Grande. They're in Northern New Mexico. These dams need to be upgraded and replaced. There is a federal program right now that will pay 65% of the cost of the dams. And we want to pay 25% with the local entity also coming up with 10%.

And if these dams are not replaced, well, if you live down below, you're in, it's very, very serious. Okay, I think it might be useful at this point to take a look at a map that was supplied to us by the state engineer's office. It gives a little bit of an idea where these different projects are. Down on the lower right-hand side, you see the Pecos River. Of course, that's the Pecos River element. Then up to above that to the right is the Yut Dam area. Going way up to the northwestern corner of the state is the San Juan River. And then over sort of in the central part of the state above the Santa Fe area, you see the Nabe Boake to Suki area. And then over left of that, lower, left of that, there's an item there about flood control drums. Obviously, those are throughout the state, as you said. How many are there again? There's about 50 that we've identified so far, but there may be many, many more of them. Okay. Let me ask you this. And this is a complicated issue, of course, water in New Mexico, my goodness. But what needs to be done for a wider dressing of some of the water problems? Very briefly from both of you, if you don't mind, Tom.

Sure. This is just a component of a much, much larger project or series of actions that the state needs to begin to take. One of the things that the state needs to begin to is to move into something called Active River Management. My office has been involved in issuing water-right permits for almost 100 years. Maybe a little even longer than that. But now it's time to start to manage the rivers. You can only take what our permits say. And that's why these adjudications are so important as well. Norm, how would you address that question briefly? Well, the outcome that New Mexico has to satisfactorily achieve is getting the water that's available. And that varies in drought times and in wet times substantially. Getting the water that's available to those that have the rights to it. In New Mexico, the right that was developed first is most senior, so it has the best right in the drought time. Only the very senior rights may get water. And junior users are going to have to go to another supply. Another part of the solution is to develop markets. So water can go from seniors with maybe a low value use, such as some agricultural uses to municipal and industrial uses in times of drought.

Well, certainly a very complex issue. One that people are much aware of. And this bond issue, I gather you feel, is just a partial solution to some of those issues. And I appreciate you being with us and sharing some of your views about it. That's all the time we have. The general election is November 5th. But if you prefer, you can cast your ballot now. Absentee voting is now underway, and we'll continue through Saturday, November 2nd. For more information on absentee voting, bond issues, candidates, and New Mexico Public Television's continuing election coverage, log on to canemies online voter guide at www.canemetv.org. I'm Joe Day, and thank you for joining us. Thank you.

Thank you.