New Mexico in Focus; 634; Guns, Violence and the Media

PARTIAL FUNDING FOR THE PRODUCTION OF NEW MEXICO InFOCUS PROVIDED BY THE McCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION. >> AHEAD ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS .. AFTER NEWTOWN. A CONTINUING CONVERSATION ON PBS THIS WEEK ABOUT GUN LAWS AND MENTAL HEALTH. DOGS OR, YOU KNOW, THROW ROCKS AT CATS, OR DO ANY KIND OF -- NOTHING. >> AS WE DO SCREENING, ONE OF THE ISSUES BECOMES, WELL, YOU CAN'T SCREEN PEOPLE IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PLACE FOR THEM TO GET CARE WHEN YOU IDENTIFY AN ISSUE. >> NEW MEXICO InFOCUS STARTS NOW. >> ON THE NEWSHOUR, FRONTLINE, NOVA, AND EVEN TONIGHT ON WASHINGTON WEEK AND NEED TO KNOW, PBS IS ENGAGING IN "AFTER NEWTOWN." AN IN-DEPTH DIALOGUE ABOUT GUN LAWS, MENTAL HEALTH AND PUBLIC SAFETY. WE'RE JOINING IN THAT EFFORT TONIGHT AS WE SPEND TIME IN THIS SHOW TALKING ABOUT THE CONVERSATION TAKING PLACE AT THE CAPITOL. WE'LL ALSO SIT DOWN WITH A PANEL OF MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS TO EXAMINE WHAT A COMMUNITY-WIDE RESPONSE TO MENTAL HEALTH

MIGHT LOOK LIKE. AND WE'LL TALK TO THE GRIEGO FAMILY ABOUT THE VICTIMS AND THE ACCUSED IN THE RECENT GUN VIOLENCE TRAGEDY IN ALBUQUERQUE. THE LINE GETS TO SOME OF THE WEEK'S OTHER NEWS, AS WELL, INCLUDING THE REVOLUTION BY PETE DOMENICI THAT HE FATHERED A CHILD WITH ANOTHER WOMAN MORE THAN THREE DECADES AGO. WE BEGIN WITH OUR OPINION PANEL AND THEIR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE GUN LAW/MENTAL HEALTH DEBATE. >> AT THE CAPITOL IN SANTA FE, AS IN STATE HOUSES A DEBATE OVER HOW BEST TO ADDRESS PROBLEMS WITH GUN VIOLENCE. IS IT A GUN ACCESS ISSUE? A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE? AND ARE LAWMAKERS SERIOUS ABOUT IT, OR JUST PAYING ATTENTION TO THE NEWS. WELL, HERE TO START OUR CONVERSATION, EDITOR OF THE NEW MEXICO LAW REVIEW, SOPHIE MARTIN IS HERE. FROM THE WAITE COMPANY, PUBLIC RELATIONS AND FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR HEATHER WILSON'S CAMPAIGN, VERY PLEASED TO WELCOME CHRISTOPHER SANCHEZ. CHRIS, GOOD TO SEE YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> FIRST TIME HERE, I LOVE IT. FORMER U.S. COMMERCE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL JAMIE ESTRADA IS BACK WITH US. AND WE ALWAYS LIKE IT WHEN DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON,

ERIC WITT, IS BACK WITH US, AS WELL. ERIC, STAY RIGHT THERE, I'LL START WITH YOU. WHEN THERE ARE HEADLINES ABOUT AN ISSUE LIKE THE ONES WE SAW GOING INTO THE SESSION, HOW IS THAT IMPACTFUL ON LAWMAKING? RIGHT, THAT WHOLE EMOTIONAL THING THAT CARRIES INTO A SESSION, IS IT THAT IMPACTFUL WITH LAWMAKERS, OR DO THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO STEP BACK A LITTLE BIT AND SEE THIS WITH A LITTLE >> IT TENDS TO BE THAT IMPACTFUL. YOU KNOW, YOU GET SINGLE ISSUE BILLS LIKE A MEGAN'S LAW, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHEN THESE KIND OF INCIDENTS OCCUR. OBVIOUSLY WHAT HAPPENED IN NEWTON, AND UNFORTUNATELY WHAT HAPPENED IN ALBUQUERQUE IS GOING TO DRIVE THE DEBATE, AND THEN THE QUESTION BECOMES, SINCE WE HAVE SUCH A LIMITED TIME IN THE SESSION, DO THEY HAVE TIME TO ACTUALLY CONSIDER EFFECTIVE LEGISLATION, OR EVEN GET ANYTHING DONE JUST IN THAT SHORT PERIOD OF TIME? THE GUN DEBATE IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE. I MEAN, THIS ISN'T A NEW TOPIC, UNFORTUNATELY. BUT IT HAS DEFINITELY FOCUSED ATTENTION LIKE NO OTHER SESSION I'VE SEEN IN A LONG TIME. >> INTERESTING. ERIC, I'M WONDERING, IN THIS IDEA OF GUN RIGHTS OWNERSHIP STACKED UP AGAINST THE NEED

TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC, WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT THERE? ARE WE ON THE RIGHT TRACK HERE WITH WHAT WE'VE GOT GOING IN SANTA FE AT THIS POINT? WE'VE GOT EVERYTHING FROM A BILL TO CARRY GUNS INSIDE LIQUOR AND RESTAURANT ESTABLISHMENTS, TO THE OTHER SIDE LOOKING AT BACKGROUND CHECKS, SOME THINGS ALL OVER THE PLACE. WHERE ARE WE IN YOUR VIEW ON THIS? A GUN PROBLEM, AND WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO STICK OUR HEADS INTO THE SAND, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING AND THAT'S NOT WORKING. SO I DO THINK THAT THE BILL BY MIGUEL GARCIA IS A GOOD STARTING POINT. I THINK WE DO NEED TO KEEP GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF CRIMINALS AND THOSE WHO ARE MENTALLY ILL. BUT ALSO, I THINK IN A LARGER DEBATE, WE NEED TO START TALKING ABOUT MENTAL ILLNESS IN THIS COUNTRY AND START HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT. WHY IS IT THAT WE TEND TO SHUN OUR NEIGHBOR WHO MIGHT BE MANIC DEPRESSIVE, YET TWO HOUSES DOWN WE MIGHT HAVE A NEIGHBOR WHO HAS A HEART CONDITION, AND WE TREAT THEM DIFFERENTLY, YET THEY'RE BOTH ILLNESSES. I THINK WE JUST NEED TO DO A BETTER EDUCATION FOR THE PUBLIC AND EDUCATE THEM ON MENTAL ILLNESS AND HOW TO SPOT THEM, JUST SO THEY HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF

THEM. >> INTERESTING. ON THAT POINT ABOUT SPOTTING POTENTIAL PROBLEMS, I APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING THAT UP, BECAUSE TALKING WITH OUR THREE PSYCHIATRISTS THAT CAME FROM UNM HERE WITH US IN THE SHOW TONIGHT, IT'S DIFFICULT EVEN FOR CLINICIANS AND PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED PEOPLE TO KNOW WHEN THAT MOMENT MIGHT BE. AND SO THERE'S A CIVIL LIBERTY ISSUE, AS WELL WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO BE TOO INTRUSIVE, BUT YOU NEED TO KNOW, AS ERIC IS POINTING OUT HERE. IT'S TOUGH TO BALANCE AND I THINK IT IS TOUGH FOR THOSE THAT ARE AROUND THE MENTALLY ILL, WHETHER IT'S TEACHERS OR ADMINISTRATORS IN SCHOOLS, OR ANYBODY ELSE. YOU KNOW, CO-WORKERS. HOW DO YOU REPORT SOMEBODY? HOW DO YOU TARGET, YOU KNOW, AND THAT CREATES A WHOLE DIFFERENT LEVEL OF, I DON'T KNOW, KIND OF AN INVASION OF PRIVACY, I GUESS, IF YOU WILL. BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK THAT WE NEED TO HAVE THOSE OUTLETS IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO GET HELP TO THE PEOPLE THAT NEED IT, AND TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT RECOGNITION THAT WE'RE CAPABLE OF ADDRESSING MENTAL

HEALTH ISSUES TO PREVENT THE KIND OF ISSUES THAT INCLUDE GUN VIOLENCE. >> WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING, JAMES, IS A MASSIVE CHANGE IN CULTURAL ATTITUDES. >> IT DOES, YEAH. >> AND WHAT YOU JUST SAID THERE ALMOST FEELS LIKE AN GENERATIONAL LONG, SOPHIE MARTIN, A GENERATION LONG CHANGE. I THINK THAT'S TRUE, I THINK THAT WE DO OURSELVES A DISSERVICE IF WE FOCUS ONLY ON MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. CLEARLY THOSE ARE A BIG ISSUE FOR OUR COUNTRY. THEY HAVE BEEN. I MEAN, LADY BIRD JOHNSON TALKED ABOUT IT. YOU KNOW, MRS. CARTER TALKED ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS COME UP IN THIS COUNTRY, AND IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME WE'VE TRIED TO ADDRESS IT. I THINK, THOUGH, THAT WE DO OURSELVES A BIG DISSERVICE IF WE PRETEND THAT EVEN A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF GUN VIOLENCE IS COMMITTED BY PEOPLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. THAT'S JUST NOT THE CASE. THE VAST MAJORITY OF GUN CRIMES ARE COMMITTED BY PEOPLE WHO CAN BE TRIED AS SANE INDIVIDUALS, WHO CAN BE PUT INTO PRISON. THERE'S AN INCREDIBLE EPIDEMIC OF SUICIDE BY GUNS THAT WE SEE IN THIS COUNTRY. AND WE HAVE A TENDENCY, I

THINK, TO THINK, OH, SO-AND-SO KILLED THEMSELVES, THEY MUST BE MENTALLY ILL. BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> WE POST DIAGNOSE. BECAUSE YOU DID THIS, YOU MUST BE ILL. WE HAVE A MUCH LARGER PROBLEM WITH GUNS IN THIS COUNTRY, AND I THINK NOW WE'RE STARTING TO GET BETTER DATA, MORE INFORMATION. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY STRUCK ME THIS WEEK, U.S. GAME AND FISH REPORTED THAT ONLY 6% OF AMERICANS ARE ACTUALLY HUNTERS. SO WE TALK ABOUT, OH, I NEED TO HAVE MY GUN TO GO OUT HUNTING. MORE PEOPLE FISH IN THIS COUNTRY. MORE PEOPLE BIRD WATCH THAN SHOOT BIRDS. LIKE, WHY DO WE WORK SO HARD FOR THAT 6% OF THE HUNTERS WHEN WE HAVE A MUCH LARGER NUMBER THAT ADMITS, I'M USING IT TO TURN MY HOME INTO SOME SORT OF CASTLE. AND THEN WE HAVE THE CASTLE DOCTRINE TO PROTECT IT. >> SURE. I KEEP CALLING YOU ERIC. CHRIS, ANOTHER QUESTION FOR YOU, AND ANOTHER ONE FOR ERIC WITH A LITTLE BIT OF

TIME HERE. A NEW IDEA HAS COME SINCE NEWTOWN, AND THAT IS THE IDEA OF INSURANCE, LIABILITY INSURANCE FOR GUN OWNERS, MEANING IF YOU LOSE YOUR GUN -- "LOSE," STOLEN, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE -- AND SOMETHING HAPPENS DOWN THE ROAD WITH THAT GUN, THERE'S SOME LIABILITY, THE IDEA IS A BETTER JOB AT LOCKING UP YOUR FIREARMS, PUTTING GUN LOCKS ON THINGS. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT? WOULD THAT MOVE PEOPLE ENOUGH IN YOUR VIEW? >> I'M NOT SURE IF HAVING LIABILITY INSURANCE IS REALLY GOING TO GET PEOPLE TO DO THAT. BUT I DO THINK THAT GUN OWNERS NEED TO START DOING THEIR DUE DILIGENCE, KEEPING THEIR GUNS IN A SAFE, PUTTING GUN LOCKS ON THEIR GUNS, AND KEEPING THEM AWAY FROM THEIR CHILDREN, AND ALSO PEOPLE WHO MIGHT DO HARM TO OTHERS. SO I DEFINITELY THINK GUN OWNERS HAVE TO HAVE MORE RESPONSIBILITY, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DO. MY STEPFATHER OWNS GUNS, BUT HE KEEPS THEM IN A SAFE, AND I THINK MORE PEOPLE SHOULD FOLLOW SUIT. >> SURE. VERY QUICKLY, WE'RE A LITTLE BIT OUT OF TIME, DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? IS LIABILITY INSURANCE A POTENTIAL ANSWER HERE? >> IT'S A POTENTIAL ANSWER. I AGREE WITH WHAT CHRIS IS SAYING.

I CALL IT THE SPIDERMAN RULE. WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY, AND GUNS GIVE YOU GREAT POWER, AND I THINK THERE SHOULD BE ELEMENTS OF TRAINING, OF RESPONSIBILITY, SECURING YOUR WEAPON, VERIFICATION, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH BACKGROUND CHECKS OR WHATEVER. I AGREE WITH WHAT SOPHIE SAID, THE LARGER ISSUE IS WE NEED TO HAVE ALL GUN OWNERS, NOT JUST THOSE MENTALLY ILL, RECOGNIZE THE REALITIES OF WHAT THEY'RE ENGAGING IN. >> IT'S A DIFFICULT ONE TO RUSH ON THE GROUND, CERTAINLY CAN'T DO IT IN FIVE MINUTES, BUT I APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT. IN A MOMENT, A PANEL OF MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS TALKS ABOUT WHY WE SEE SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE INVOLVED IN GUN VIOLENCE, AND WHAT MIGHT BE BEHIND THEIR >> EVEN NOW WHEN I VISIT HIM, HE SEEMS TO BE A NORMAL KID, YOU KNOW. BUT THE PROBLEM IS, WHERE HE IS RIGHT NOW, HE CANNOT RECEIVE TRUE TREATMENT. ANY SYMPTOMS LIKE FLASHBACKS, THEY BASICALLY HAVE TO SUPPRESS THAT KIND OF, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL FOR

GETTING THROUGH AND DIAGNOSING PROPERLY AND TREATING PROPERLY. >> WE HAVE HEARD QUITE OFTEN SINCE AURORA, SINCE IS INTIMATELY CONNECTED TO MENTAL HEALTH. INTUITIVELY, THAT MAKES SOME SENSE, BUT WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO COMMIT GUN VIOLENCE? JOINING US ARE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO PSYCHOLOGY PROFESSOR EMERITUS LYNETTE COFER. SHE STUDIED THE MEDIA AND HOW CHILDREN PROCESS WHAT THEY SEE ON TELEVISION. AND FROM THE UNM DEPARTMENT OF PSYCHIATRY, STEVEN ADELSHEIM, WHO RUNS THE CENTER FOR RURAL AND COMMUNITY BEHAVIORAL HEALTH. AND DAVID GRAEBER, ALSO WITH THE UNM DEPARTMENT OF PSYCHIATRY. LIKE STEVEN, HE ACTIVELY SEES PATIENTS AND IS THE DIVISION DIRECTOR OF CHILD AND ADOLESCENT PSYCHIATRY AT THE UNM HEALTH SCIENCES CENTER. NOW, DAVID, I'D LIKE TO BEGIN WITH YOU. WE'VE SEEN TRAGEDY AFTER TRAGEDY, AND STUDY AFTER STUDY ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH AND GUNS. STILL THE NATIONAL DIALOGUE ISN'T A CONSENSUS. SO, WHY IS THAT? WHY CAN WE NEVER GET TO A

CONSENSUS ON THIS? BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN A FIELD OF STUDY FOR TWO OR THREE DECADES AT THIS POINT. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? >> WELL, I THINK IN TERMS OF GUN VIOLENCE AND THE MENTALLY ILL, I WILL FIRST SAY THAT ONE OF THE DISTRESSING THINGS ABOUT THE RECENT MEDIA COVERAGE IS THIS IDEA THAT GUN VIOLENCE IS PERPETRATED BY CRIMINALS AND PATIENTS, INDIVIDUALS WITH MENTAL ILLNESS, AND I THINK THAT DOES NOTHING BUT INCREASES THE STIGMA, WHICH IS EXACTLY THE WRONG DIRECTION THAT WE NEED TO BE MOVING IN TERMS OF PEOPLE GETTING ADEQUATE TREATMENT AND HAVING ACCESS TO CARE. >> LET ME ASK YOU THIS. WHERE DOES THAT STIGMA -- WHAT IS THAT STIGMA ABOUT? WHAT IS THAT BASE OF FEAR THAT THAT STIGMA COMES FROM? >> WELL, I BELIEVE IN THIS CASE, IT'S A PORTRAYAL OF MENTALLY ILL PATIENTS AS BEING, IN PARTICULAR, DANGEROUS AND MORE LIKELY TO COMMIT VIOLENCE WITH GUNS THAN CITIZENS WITHOUT MENTAL ILLNESS. 25% OF THE ADULTS IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE A MENTAL ILLNESS OF SOME KIND, AND

THAT'S A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE. 22% OF ADOLESCENTS IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE A DIAGNOSABLE MENTAL ILLNESS WITH SIGNIFICANT DISTRESS OR IMPAIRMENT. SO THIS IS A VERY LARGE SEGMENT OF OUR POPULATION THAT SUFFERS FROM MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES THAT MANY WOULD BENEFIT FROM TREATMENT. AND I THINK THAT PORTRAYING THEM AS POTENTIAL PERPETRATORS OF VIOLENCE DOES A GREAT DISSERVICE. AND, IN FACT, THERE ARE MANY STUDIES THAT SUGGEST THAT HAVING A MENTAL ILLNESS IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO PLACE YOU IN A ROLE OF VICTIMIZATION OF VIOLENCE. >> WHY WOULD THAT BE? >> BECAUSE PEOPLE AT TIMES WHO HAVE MENTAL ILLNESS, AND ESPECIALLY SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS, MAY HAVE DIFFICULTY IN ASCERTAINING THE CONTEXT OF VARIOUS INTERPERSONAL RELATIONS, MAY NOT READ SOCIAL CUES AS WELL, MAY ACTUALLY PUT THEMSELVES IN MORE DANGEROUS POSITIONS WITH OTHERS. THEY'RE ALSO SEEN AT TIMES AS RELATIVELY EASY TARGETS. >> THAT MAKES SENSE. STEVEN, I'D LIKE YOU TO ADD TO THAT, BUT THEN ALSO, IN YOUR RESEARCH, AS WELL, THIS IS A HIGHLY NUANCED SITUATION, CERTAINLY, BUT

FOR FOLKS WHO HAVE MENTAL ILLNESS AND THE IDEA IN THE PUBLIC THAT ONE CAN READ A PROBLEM COMING, IF SOMEHOW WE JUST MAGICALLY SIT DOWN WITH THESE FOLKS, OR WITH SOME KIND OF QUESTIONNAIRE WE CAN PIN THIS PERSON AS A POTENTIAL VIOLENT PERPETRATOR, IS THAT PART OF THE STIGMA HERE? HOW DOES THE PUBLIC GET STUCK ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS? FOLLOWING UP ON DAVID'S POINT, I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REALLY ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS HAVE A MUCH HIGHER RISK OF BEING VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE, AS HE SAID. I THINK IT'S A CRITICAL POINT TO MAKE. AND I THINK, ALSO, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE ISSUE OF GUN RELATED DEATHS, IN NEW MEXICO, FOR EXAMPLE, TWO-THIRDS OF THE GUN RELATED DEATHS ARE SUICIDES, AND IN MANY CASES THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO MAYBE HAVE A MENTAL HEALTH CONDITION THAT MAY BE TREATED OR UNTREATED AND THAT ARE HAVING A MOMENT OF CRISIS. AND SO GUNS CAN REALLY BE AN ISSUE, TO A GREAT DEGREE, IN TERMS OF RISKS FOR PEOPLE FOR VIOLENCE TO SELF, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY NEED TO BE THINKING

ABOUT AS A STATEMENT OF THE COUNTRY, AS WELL. I THINK IN TERMS OF YOUR QUESTION ABOUT SORT OF THE LOOKING AT THE ONE POINT, AS WE ALL KNOW, NOT ONLY ARE MENTAL HEALTH CONDITIONS MULTI-FACTORIAL, BUT SO IS VIOLENCE. AND I THINK WHEN WE LOOK AT PEOPLE OFTEN WHO ARE INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE, YOU KNOW, A NUMBER OF STUDIES TALK ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF TRAUMA. PEOPLE WHO ARE ABUSED MIGHT HAVE MORE RISK OF BECOMING ABUSERS THEMSELVES AT LATER TIMES DURING LIFE AS A RESPONSE TO THAT, ESPECIALLY WITHOUT TREATMENT AND SUPPORT. I THINK THERE'S ALSO OFTEN BIOLOGICAL ASPECTS. HEAD INJURIES MAKE PEOPLE POTENTIALLY MORE LIKELY TO MAYBE HAVE A VIOLENT EPISODE, AS WELL. BUT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND, FOR MENTAL ILLNESS IN GENERAL, HALF OF ALL MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES START BY THE AGE OF 14. THREE-QUARTERS BY THE AGE OF 24. AND WHAT BECOMES VERY IMPORTANT, I THINK, FOR ME AND FOR MANY OF THE PEOPLE I'M WORKING WITH IS HOW WE IDENTIFY YOUNG PEOPLE EARLY THAT MIGHT HAVE MENTAL

HEALTH CONDITIONS, AND TO BE ABLE TO LINK THEM EFFECTIVELY TO THE SUPPORTS THAT THEY NEED. AND RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HAVE SYSTEMS IN PLACE TO DO THAT, BOTH WITHIN OUR STATE, BUT FRANKLY, IN THE UNITED STATES AS A WHOLE. ONE CAN LOOK AT MODELS IN AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND, ALL OVER EUROPE WHERE THERE REALLY HAS BEEN A MUCH MORE CONCERTED EFFORT TO BUILD EARLY INTERVENTION MODELS, TO TARGET ON ADOLESCENTS AND YOUNG ADULTS, TO BUILD COMFORTABLE PLACES FOR THEM TO ACCESS SERVICES, TO COME TALK TO EACH OTHER, TO GET PEER SUPPORT. AND I THINK THE STIGMA ISSUE BECOMES HUGE BECAUSE I THINK, GENE, IF SOMEONE SAID TO YOU, WELL, WHO IN YOUR FAMILY HAS A MENTAL ILLNESS, IT'S NOT A QUESTION I'M IS THAT, IN FACT, WHAT YOUR RESEARCH HAS SHOWN, OR ARE

THESE OTHER FACTORS JUST NOT AS BIG AS WE THINK THEY MIGHT BE? >> WELL, MY RESEARCH WAS FOCUSED ON NORMAL KIDS, LITTLE KIDS AND PRESCHOOL CHILDREN, YOUNG CHILDREN. BUT THEN WE REVIEWED HUNDREDS OF STUDIES. WE WROTE REVIEWS ON HUNDREDS OF STUDIES OF OLDER KIDS, AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. SPECIAL GROUPS, NOT SPECIAL GROUPS. BUT THE CONSISTENT FINDING IS, IT'S NOT A SILVER BULLET. AND I SAID EARLIER, IT'S NOT UNLIKE THE CONTROVERSY OVER CIGARETTE SMOKING. THE INDUSTRY ALWAYS SAID, YOU HAVEN'T PROVED IT, YOU HAVEN'T PROVED IT, IT'S ONE WAY. IT'S A ONE-WAY CAUSAL CONNECTION. DOES TELEVISION VIOLENCE OR GAME VIOLENCE CAUSE KIDS TO BECOME VIOLENT? YOU CAN'T ANSWER ANYTHING LIKE THAT. PEOPLE ARE COMPLEX AND FUZZY. SO WHAT YOU CAN SAY IS, OKAY, WHAT WE'VE FOUND, IF YOU LOOK AT THE

PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE ACROSS THE BOARD, LAB STUDIES, CORRELATIONAL STUDIES, FIELD STUDIES AND SO FORTH, THEY ALL KIND OF GO IN THE SAME DIRECTION, AND METANALYSIS SUPPORT THAT. IS THERE AN EFFECT? YES, BUT WHO IT IS. OKAY, IN OUR STUDIES, NORMAL NURSERY SCHOOL KIDS, WONDERFUL NURSERY SCHOOL PROGRAM, JUST THREE PROGRAMS A WEEK IN THE COURSE OF A FINE NURSERY SCHOOL DAY FOR A MONTH, THE BOYS WHO WERE MORE AGGRESSIVE IN THE BASELINE PERIOD RESPONDED WITH SIGNIFICANT INCREASES IN AGGRESSION. JUST NORMAL NURSERY SCHOOL STUFF. WELL, DOES THAT MEAN THAT'S NOT IMPORTANT? WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE FINDINGS ARE, GUESS WHAT, THOSE KIDS ACROSS THE LIFE SPAN SEEK OUT MORE AGGRESSIVE TELEVISION AND RESPOND MORE TO IT. DOES THAT MAKE IT LESS OF A SOCIAL PROBLEM?

I WOULD ARGUE, NO, NO, NO. WE NEED VERY MUCH TO OFFER KIDS GOOD ALTERNATIVES AND ACTIVITIES, AND THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT BRING THEM INTO COMMUNICATION WITH PEOPLE. I WILL SAY QUICKLY, THE OTHER RESULT THAT ISN'T DISCUSSED AS MUCH IS THAT CHILDREN, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR BASELINE AGGRESSION SCORES WERE, WHO WERE IN THIS VIOLENT TELEVISION OF BATMAN AND SUPERMAN CARTOONS OF THE '70S, WHICH ALL THE PARENTS SAID, SURE, YOU CAN SHOW THEM THAT, OKAY, THEY SHOWED SIGNIFICANT DECREASES IN MEASURES OF SELF-CONTROL. LIKE, HOW TOLERANT ARE YOU IF YOUR JUICE IS LATE AT THE TABLE? OR, WHAT HAPPENS IF SOMEBODY STEPS ON YOUR FOOT? OR, HOW LONG DO YOU CONTINUE WITH AN ART PROJECT? WHEREAS THE CHILDREN THAT SAW MR. ROGERS NEIGHBORHOOD PROGRAM -- THIS WAS

EXCITING, BECAUSE NOBODY HAD SHOWN THIS BEFORE -- SHOWED INCREASES IN LOTS OF SELF-CONTROLLING KINDS OF BEHAVIORS AND INCREASES IN COMMUNICATION. SO THAT'S WHAT WE WENT ON TO BUILD ON, NOT CONTINUING TO LOOK AT THE AGGRESSION STUFF. >> SURE. >> BUT YOU THINK, WHAT ARE WE DOING AS A SOCIETY, BECAUSE WE'RE GIVING KIDS A CONSTANT DIET THAT'S MUCH WORSE NOW THAN IT WAS THEN. >> AND IN THAT CONTEXT OF THE CONSTANT DIET AND WHAT WE KNOW NOW ABOUT HOW LONG ACTUALLY THE BRAIN IS DEVELOPING -- IT USED TO BE WE THOUGHT WE WERE ALL ADULTS BY 17-AND-A-HALF, OR SOMETHING, BUT WE KNOW DIFFERENTLY NOW. WELL INTO YOUR EARLY 20s THERE'S STILL A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT GOING ON. SO WHAT HAPPENS IN THAT NEXUS OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THERE? WHEN A KID IS EXPOSED TO THAT KIND OF THING, BUT NOT QUITE FULLY WIRED, AS THEY SAY, WHAT'S THE POTENTIAL THERE? WHAT HAPPENS? >> GOSH, I DON'T HAVE ANY MAGIC ANSWERS TO THAT. I'LL SAY THAT I THINK WHAT HAPPENS WITH A LOT OF KIDS IS THAT THEIR SOCIAL CONTEXT WITH FAMILY, WITH FRIENDS,

WITH COMMUNITY ARE DIMINISHED, AND THEY BECOME MORE RELIANT ON THE EXCITEMENT THAT COMES FROM WHETHER IT'S THE LATEST PROGRAM, OR THE LATEST GAME, AND THEY CAN BECOME MORE ISOLATED. NOW, YOU ALL KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS THAN I DO, BUT THAT WOULD BE -- >> DR. GRAEBER, DO PICK UP ON THAT, BECAUSE THERE'S SOMETHING INTERESTING THERE. >> I THINK LYNETTE MAKES A GOOD POINT. ONE THING WE KNOW, THESE VIOLENT EVENTS ARE VERY HARD COMPLEX, I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD AGREE. I THINK WE DO KNOW THAT AGGRESSION IN KIDS IS A MARKER FOR POTENTIAL AGGRESSION AS KIDS GROW, AND SO THAT CAN BE HELPFUL IN TERMS OF SCREENING AND EARLY INTERVENTION. AGGRESSION IN YOUNG, EVEN PRESCHOOLERS AND SCHOOL-AGED CHILDREN, IS AN IMPORTANT BEHAVIOR TO RECOGNIZE. AND THINGS THAT DO IMPROVE PRO-SOCIAL BEHAVIOR AND SUPPORT TEND TO BE SHOWN AS FAIRLY EFFECTIVE IN THIS

GROUP. >> RIGHT. >> SO THAT'S ONE PIECE. I THINK THE ISSUE OF DEVELOPMENT IS QUITE INTERESTING. I THINK, AGAIN, HOW DO PEOPLE HAVE THE SUPPORT OF FAMILIES AND SIGNIFICANT OTHERS. AND THE OTHER PIECE, REALLY, I WANT TO GO BACK TO IS THIS IDEA, GETTING BACK TO VIOLENCE, YOU KNOW, AND THE GUN ISSUE, IS THAT OF THE 31,000 GUN DEATHS IN 2010, ABOUT 19,000 WERE HOMICIDES, BUT 11,000 WERE -- I'M SORRY; 19,000 WERE SUICIDES, AND 11,000 WERE HOMICIDES. >> AND THAT'S NATIONALLY. >> THAT'S NATIONALLY. AND EVEN THOUGH THESE MASS SHOOTINGS ARE TRAGIC, THEY'RE RELATIVELY RARE EVENTS. >> INTERESTING ON THAT IDEA OF SUICIDE. LET ME GO BACK TO THAT FOR A QUICK SECOND, STEVEN, BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I DID NOT REALIZE IS THAT THE LENGTH OF TIME BETWEEN THE INITIAL THOUGHT THAT A SUICIDE MOMENT IS THERE, AND AN ACTUAL EVENT HAPPENING, IS LESS THAN AN HOUR. >> RIGHT.

>> THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU PLAN FOR A WEEK AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AFTER YOU GET A REPORT DONE, YOU GO DO THIS. BUT HOW DOES ONE, AS A CLINICIAN AND OTHERS IN YOUR FIELD, HOW DOES ONE PREDICT SOMETHING IN SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, THAT WE'VE GOT A POTENTIAL DISASTER WITHIN AN HOUR? THAT SEEMS VERY DIFFICULT TO ME. THAT SOMEONE LIKE ME IS NO BETTER AT PREDICTING SOMEONE'S SUICIDE THAN ANYBODY ELSE, THAN YOU OR ANYBODY BEHIND ONE OF THE CAMERAS HERE. I THINK THE ISSUE IS WHAT WE CAN DO TO BUILD SUPPORTS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, TO BUILD PROGRAMS, DECREASE THAT ONGOING RISK. >> WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE TO YOU? IF YOU HAD YOUR PERFECT ALBUQUERQUE TEMPLATE, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? HOW WOULD WE ATTACK MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES TO PROVIDE THAT SUPPORT BEFORE THAT HAPPENS? WHAT'S MISSING IN OUR CITY RIGHT NOW? >> WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A NATIONAL ISSUE, AND I DON'T WANT TO SAY JUST ALBUQUERQUE IS REALLY SO MUCH THE PROBLEM, BUT I THINK RIGHT NOW WITHIN OUR COUNTRY, WE HAVE NOT REALLY BUILT A FOCUS ON MENTAL HEALTH TO THE SAME DEGREE THAT WE HAVE AROUND PHYSICAL

HEALTH CONDITIONS. SO AS A RESULT, WE DON'T HAVE -- WE HAVE THE SAME ISSUES, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE. WE DON'T HAVE, I THINK, THE EARLY INTERVENTION AND EARLY DETECTION SYSTEMS THAT I THINK WE NEED. WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD MODELS OF PREVENTION IN SCHOOLS, AND I THINK A LOT OF WORK NEEDS TO CONTINUE IN SCHOOLS, BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE KIDS ARE, AND THAT'S WHERE THE FAMILIES BRING THEM, AND I THINK THEY'RE INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT ACCESS POINTS. WE HAVE HAD A COMMITMENT IN THE STATE TO SCHOOL MENTAL HEALTH, TO WHATEVER DEGREE WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO, BUT CERTAINLY WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH. WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SCHOOLS -- >> HOW FAR OFF ARE WE? HOW MUCH MORE WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IN OUR STATE? >> WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE EVERY SCHOOL HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY A SCHOOL COUNSELOR, WHOSE ROLES VARY QUITE A BIT FROM SCHOOL TO SCHOOL. IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, THEY MIGHT BE MORE EDUCATIONAL AND DO SOME SMALL GROUPS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I THINK AS YOU GET TO MIDDLE SCHOOL, IT OFTEN BECOMES, UNFORTUNATELY, MORE OF A DISCIPLINARY ROLE AT TIMES, OR THEY GET INVOLVED IN SCHEDULING AND SOME OF THOSE ISSUES. AND IN HIGH SCHOOL, IT'S THE SAME, AND THERE'S A VOCATIONAL COMPONENT, AS

WELL. BUT I THINK THE MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT ISSUES ARE LACKING IN OUR SCHOOL SYSTEMS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, AND I THINK WE HAVE A STRONGER NEED TO BUILD THOSE PARTNERSHIPS. FEDERAL LEGISLATION THAT WAS JUST PUT INTO THE MIX THIS LAST WEEK OR TWO, A MENTAL HEALTH IN SCHOOLS BILL ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL, THAT WOULD BUILD COMMUNITY MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORTS WITH SCHOOLS TO LINK FUNDS FOR ADDITIONAL SERVICES ACROSS A CONTINUUM. WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT MORE OF THOSE KINDS OF PROGRAMS, AND THEN WITHIN THAT FRAMEWORK, THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTIFYING YOUNG PEOPLE EARLY WITH THE POTENTIAL OF SERIOUS MENTAL HEALTH CONDITIONS. AND IF WE CAN BUILD IN THE SCREENING PROGRAMS, THE FAMILIES CAN TOLERATE US BEING ABLE TO DO THE SCREENING, BECAUSE OF THE SIGMA ISSUES OR THE CONCERNS ABOUT BEING BLAMED IF SOMEONE SAYS, WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT YOUR CHILD MAYBE FACING SOME ISSUE. WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF SUPPORTING FAMILIES WHEN THOSE SITUATIONS HAPPEN, AND THEN I THINK WE CAN, YOU KNOW, REALLY HAVE MUCH BETTER OUTCOMES. DAVID AND I WORKED ON A STUDY HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE

FOCUSED ON IDENTIFYING YOUNG PEOPLE EARLY, WE DID TRAINING ALL OVER THE ALBUQUERQUE PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT I THINK WAS MUCH APPRECIATED AROUND THOSE EARLY WARNING SIGNS, AND WE WERE ABLE TO SEE YOUNG PEOPLE EARLY. WE HAVE A PROGRAM NOW -- >> LET ME ASK YOU, IS THIS DOABLE FOR THE LAYPERSON? CAN THE LAYPERSON PERSON, WITH A LITTLE BIT OF TRAINING -- LET ME GO OVER HERE TO DAVE FOR A QUICK SECOND AND PICK UP ON THIS. CAN A LAYPERSON ACTUALLY HAVE THE SKILL SET TO IDENTIFY POTENTIAL PROBLEMS IN A CHILD? >> WELL, I MEAN, PROBABLY A GENERAL ANSWER IS, YES, ALTHOUGH I THINK THAT REQUIRES A FAIR AMOUNT OF EDUCATION. >> OKAY. >> YOU KNOW, IN MOST CASES PERSON BEST IS THEIR FAMILY, AND SO EDUCATING FAMILIES IS REALLY IMPORTANT. AND THEN AS STEVE POINTED OUT, WHEN FAMILIES IDENTIFY POTENTIAL CONCERNS, THEY HAVE TO HAVE ACCESS TO CARE, AND FOR MOST THAT REALLY COMES IN TERMS OF PRIMARY CARE, WHICH RAISES A WHOLE ISSUE OF HOW WE ACTUALLY -- HOW BEHAVIORAL HEALTH IS INTERFACED WITH PRIMARY CARE, AND THERE ARE

INITIATIVES FEDERALLY THAT LOOK PROMISING. BUT, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU LOOK AT PSYCHOTROPIC MEDICATION IN YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES, IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OUTPATIENT PHYSICIAN VISITS, ABOUT 14% OF VISITS WILL INVOLVE A PSYCHIATRIC PRESCRIPTION, AND THIS IS IN GENERAL PHYSICIAN'S OFFICES. OF THOSE, TWO-THIRDS OF THOSE ARE WRITTEN BY NONPSYCHIATRIC PROVIDERS. SO THE BULK OF PSYCHIATRIC PRESCRIBING IN THIS COUNTRY IS FROM PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIANS, WHO TYPICALLY HAVE A LIMITED, I WILL SAY, FORMAL EDUCATION. THEY MAY HAVE A FAIR AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE. >> SURE. >> THAT DOESN'T SAY THAT THEY'RE NOT COMPETENT. BUT I THINK, HOW DO WE ACTUALLY LEVERAGE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SERVICES AND EXPERTISE TO PRIMARY CARE TO SCHOOLS IS A REALLY WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY THAT REALLY IS NOT BEING CAPITALIZED ON. >> I WOULD HAVE TO -- I HEAR THIS FEEDBACK A LOT, GUYS, ALL THE TIME, THAT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IS THE POINT OF ENTRY FOR ALL OF THIS. IN FACT, EXPANDING THE IDEA OF THE SCHOOL PSYCHIATRIST

OR PSYCHOLOGIST INTO A MUCH BIGGER THING, ALMOST A TEAM SYSTEM WHERE YOU WORK WITH THE FAMILY, AND ALMOST WORK WITH THE CHILD ALL THE WAY FROM ELEMENTARY ALL THE WAY THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL TO KEEP A TRACK ON THE FAMILY, LYNETTE, SO YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THE THINGS LIKE GAMING GOING ON IN THE HOUSE. YOU CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION WHERE PEOPLE ANECDOTALLY SAY, YOU KNOW, MY KID SEEMS TO ZONE OUT ON A GAME, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT, THESE VIOLENT GAMES. WOULD THAT BE A SYSTEM THAT YOU COULD SUPPORT, AS WELL, IF THE SCHOOL BECOMES A CENTER CLEARINGHOUSE FOR THESE KIND OF THINGS FOR THE ENTIRE FAMILY? WITH THAT, BECAUSE I THINK WE CAN DO NO BETTER THAN JANE ADDAMS AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY AND HULL-HOUSE. HULL-HOUSE WAS SET UP AS A PLACE WHERE FAMILIES COULD COME TOGETHER, THEY COULD DO DRAMA, POETRY, ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT THINGS. CRAFTS, GAMES, MARVELOUS KINDS OF ACTIVITIES. BUT ALSO, IT WAS HER WAY OF SAYING, THIS IS WHERE CIVIC EDUCATION BEGINS. THIS IS HOW WE LEARN TO WORK

TOGETHER, TALK TOGETHER, AND SO FORTH. AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME WONDERFUL STUDIES FINANCED BY THE HOGG FOUNDATION IN TEXAS WHERE THEY REALLY PICKED UP -- BY WAYNE HOLTZMAN'S GROUP, WHERE THEY PICKED UP ON THOSE IDEAS, AND THEY OPENED UP THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, REALLY OPENED THEM UP SO PARENTS, AS WELL AS KIDS, COULD COME FOR SECOND LANGUAGE LEARNING, THEY COULD COME FOR SWIMMING, THEY COULD COME FOR LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS. AND IT'S THAT KIND OF BROADER COMMUNICATION THAT'S OF SUCH INTEREST TO ME IN PREVENTION. AND I THINK IN THAT, WHEN YOU BEGIN TO BUILD THOSE KINDS OF TRUSTING RELATIONSHIPS, THEN YOUR KIDS ARE GOING TO BE MORE LIKELY TO BE OPENED, AND THEIR FAMILIES, TO MEETING WITH MENTAL HEALTH SPECIALISTS, OR BEING IDENTIFIED, BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO BE AROUND PEOPLE A LOT MORE. >> INTERESTING. >> YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE -- WE HAVE HAD A HISTORY OF FAMILY RESOURCE CENTERS IN

NEW MEXICO, AND IN ALBUQUERQUE, AND I THINK, ACTUALLY, ONE OF THE THINGS AROUND DEALING WITH THE MENTAL HEALTH STIGMA IS WHEN YOU CAN LINK OTHER SERVICES TO THE SCHOOL SETTING AND PEOPLE COME IN FOR MULTIPLE REASONS, THEN YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS AND DEAL WITH THOSE ISSUES, AND WHETHER IT'S ACCESS TO OTHER KINDS OF FAMILY SUPPORTS, THEY BECOME VERY IMPORTANT. AND, YOU KNOW, I KNOW IN ALBUQUERQUE AND OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE, THOSE PROGRAMS HAVE BEEN IN PLACE TO SOME DEGREE. I DON'T HAVE A NUMBER FOR YOU ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY WE NEED TO DO IT, BUT I THINK HAVING THAT COMMITMENT AND THAT EXPANDED SUPPORT WOULD TRULY BE VALUABLE, I THINK, FOR MANY OF OUR FAMILIES, BECAUSE THE ACCESS ISSUES DO REMAIN SO DIFFICULT, AND THERE ARE SO FEW DOLLARS THAT HAVE REALLY FOCUSED ON THE EARLY DETECTION. AS WE DO SCREENINGS, ONE OF THE ISSUES BECOMES, WELL, YOU CAN'T SCREEN PEOPLE IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PLACE FOR THEM TO GET CARE WHEN YOU IDENTIFY AN ISSUE. SO HOW DO WE BUILD THAT CAPACITY TO THEN BE ABLE TO EVEN IDENTIFY THE ISSUE? AND IF YOU LOOK AT ASTHMA, IF YOU LOOK AT DIABETES, YOU

WOULDN'T SAY, WELL, WE DON'T WANT TO SCREEN FOR THOSE ISSUES BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO KNOW WHAT TO DO, BECAUSE WE'RE COMMITTED TO THOSE PHYSICAL HEALTH ISSUES IN A WAY WE HAVEN'T MADE THE SAME COMMITMENT TO MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. AND I THINK BY CHANGING THAT, THINGS COULD IMPROVE QUITE A BIT. >> SURE. THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING IN. IT'S A HUGE ISSUE, AND I APOLOGIZE THAT WE CAN ONLY KIND OF SCRATCH AT IT WITH OUR FINGERNAILS A LITTLE BIT. LOVE TO HAVE YOU COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT THIS SOME MORE, AND HAVE IT NONTRAGEDY BASED. >> THAT WOULD BE LOVELY. >> EXACTLY RIGHT. AHEAD, ERIC AND REGINA GRIEGO ON THEIR FAMILY'S EXPERIENCE WITH THE MENTAL >> SUDDENLY PEOPLE DISCOVERED THAT THERE WAS MORE TO MY WORK THAN "THE DINNER PARTY," AND THAT SEEMS TO HAVE INITIATED A BIG CHANGE, BECAUSE SUDDENLY PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO LOOK AT OTHER BODIES OF MY ART. IT'S JUST FABULOUS. IT'S FABULOUS. I'M JUST GLAD I LIVED LONG

ENOUGH TO SEE THAT. >> IN JANUARY, JUST WEEKS AFTER THE NEWTOWN SHOOTING, THE BERNALILLO COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE RESPONDED TO A CALL TO THE HOME OF GREG AND SARAH GRIEGO AND THEIR YOUNGEST FOUR CHILDREN. THE STORY IS WELL-KNOWN NOW THAT DEPUTIES SAY 15-YEAR-OLD NEHEMIAH GRIEGO SHOT AND KILLED HIS PARENTS AND THREE SIBLINGS. THE REACTION FROM NEHEMIAH'S REMAINING FAMILY MEMBERS SURPRISED SOME. THEY'RE ASKING FOR A SECOND CHANCE FOR THE TEEN. HERE IS NMiF PRODUCER MATT GRUBS WITH GREG GRIEGO'S BROTHER AND SISTER, ERIC AND REGINA GRIEGO. >> WELL, ERIC AND REGINA GRIEGO, THANKS FOR COMING IN, AND BRINGING IN YOUR SISTER, AS WELL, LOUISE HOOD. THANK YOU. WE APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME. WANT TO ADDRESS IS, WHEN WE SPOKE ABOUT COMING IN AND TALKING, YOU SAID, ERIC, FOR YOU AND FOR THE REST OF YOU, THIS ISN'T A GUN ISSUE. JUST TELL ME WHY. >> WELL, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY GUNS CLEARLY WERE COURSE.

BUT, I MEAN, WHAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO COME TO TERMS WITH IS SORT OF THE MENTAL HEALTH ELEMENTS. NONE OF US REALLY SAW THIS COMING, AND WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO LEARN ABOUT WHAT EXACTLY WAS HAPPENING WITHIN OUR NEPHEW'S MENTAL HEALTH STATUS. YOU KNOW, WHAT MAYBE WE COULD HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR, SHOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR, WHAT SHOULD ANY FAMILY BE AWARE OF. SO, I MEAN, CLEARLY THERE WERE WEAPONS INVOLVED, AND THAT'S A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION. WE'VE NOT SPENT A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT THAT. WHAT WE'RE REALLY DEALING WITH NOW AS A FAMILY, AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL DEAL WITH THIS AS A COMMUNITY, IS WHAT ARE WE DOING TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING BY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT SOONER AND DETERMINE MORE THOROUGHLY WHAT KIDS ARE GOING THROUGH. WE ALL THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, NEHEMIAH, OUR NEPHEW, WAS A SEEMINGLY NORMAL KID WITH

THE SAME CHALLENGES ANY ADOLESCENT HAD, AND NO ONE HAD ANY IDEA THAT THIS WAS HAPPENING. THAT'S TYPICALLY THE CASE IN THESE KIND OF TRAGEDIES, IS NOBODY REALLY SEES IT COMING. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN FOCUSED ON, RATHER THAN GETTING INTO, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY, WHAT KIND, WHETHER THEY WERE LOCKED UP, SHOULD THEY HAVE BEEN LOCKED UP. I MEAN, THAT'S CERTAINLY A DEBATE THAT WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN VIEWS ON, RIGHT. BUT I THINK CENTRAL TO THIS CONVERSATION REALLY IS WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THIS LITTLE KID'S LIFE. AND HE WAS A KID. HE'S 15 YEARS OLD, A VERY YOUNG 15-YEAR-OLD KID. >> YOU SAID THAT YOUR BROTHER HAD HIS REASONS, AND HE HAD THAT DEBATE, HIMSELF. OKAY, SO DO I TEACH NEHEMIAH ABOUT THESE, AND HE DID. AND I GUESS YOU SORT OF MOVE ON FROM THERE. >> YES. I THINK HE WOULD HAVE MADE DIFFERENT DECISIONS HAD HE SEEN ANY SIGNS IN NEHEMIAH, YOU KNOW. >> WELL, LET'S START WITH THAT. AS WE'VE BEEN SPEAKING, IT HAS TO BE THE MOST HUMAN REACTION TO START ASKING, OKAY, WHY DID THIS HAPPEN?

AND LOOKING BACK ON IT, COULD I SEE SOMETHING? WHERE DO YOU GO WITH THAT? >> WELL, OUR INTERACTION WITH NEHEMIAH WAS AT LEAST MONTHLY. WE HAVE A LARGE FAMILY. WE WOULD SEE HIM AT FAMILY WE WOULD CELEBRATE BIRTHDAYS. GREG WAS AT MY HOUSE FOR HIS BIRTHDAY ON DECEMBER 8th. WE HAD A CHRISTMAS GATHERING. WE WERE GOING TO MEET THAT JANUARY FOR HIS BIRTHDAY, AND SARAH'S BIRTHDAY. WE DID NOT SEE ANYTHING THAT SEEMED UNUSUAL AS A FAMILY. HE IS HOME SCHOOLED, AND MY UNDERSTANDING FROM YOUR PANEL IS THAT A LOT OF SCREENING, A LOT OF THOSE KIND OF THINGS ARE PICKED UP BY A LOT OF TIMES THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM. AND SO THAT MAY HAVE BEEN A GAP. WE HONESTLY KEEP SCRATCHING OUR HEADS. I RAISED THREE CHILDREN. THERE WERE -- YOU KNOW, WITH MY SON, THERE WERE TIMES WHERE I LOOKED AT HIS JOURNAL TO MAKE SURE HE WAS OKAY AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT THERE'S NOTHING THAT WE

SAW IN NEHEMIAH THAT WOULD INDICATE THE SEVERITY OF WHAT HAPPENED. >> LOUISE, YOU SPENT SOME TIME JUST WATCHING THE PANEL THAT WE JUST HAD ON WITH GENE AND THE MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY SAID WAS, BEHAVIOR THAT MIGHT BE CONSIDERED PROBLEMATIC OR WORRISOME, OR SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO ADDRESS, OFTENTIMES STARTS TO MANIFEST ITSELF AROUND 14. >> YES. >> AND I THINK WHEN WE IN THE PUBLIC LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WE THINK, YOU KNOW, WHAT COULD WE HAVE DONE TO SEE THIS COMING. AND IF YOU CONSIDER THAT MAYBE THIS STARTED TO MANIFEST ITSELF AT 14, MAYBE NOT, THAT DOESN'T GIVE YOU MUCH TIME. AND IN ACTUALITY, I THINK IF HE DID START MANIFESTING THINGS, WE DID NOT SEE IT. WE DID NOT PICK IT UP. WHETHER, YOU KNOW, WE HAD ENOUGH EXPERIENCE TO DO IT OR NOT -- I HAVE HAD SOME EXPERIENCE WITH TAKING CARE OF ADOLESCENT CHILDREN, BUT HONESTLY, I NEVER SAW ANYTHING EXCEPT FOR HE WAS A 15-YEAR-OLD BOY.

YOU KNOW, VERY ENERGETIC. HE WAS KIND OF A LITTLE BIT MORE WITHDRAWN, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A BIG FAMILY, SO WITHIN THE FAMILY ENVIRONMENT HE TALKED WHEN HE WAS TALKED TO. HE HAD A VERY GOOD CONVERSATION WITH MY HUSBAND, WHO IS IN THE MILITARY, VERY, YOU KNOW, EXCITED ABOUT THINGS. WE WERE TRYING TO TALK HIM INTO GOING TO THE COAST GUARD INSTEAD OF THE ARMY. I HAVE TWO DAUGHTERS THAT ARE IN THE COAST GUARD, AND THEY LOVE IT. NO, NEVER SAW IT. I WAS EXASPERATED WHEN I GOT THE NEWS, JUST SHOCKED. >> I'M SURE. ERIC, YOU HAD SAID THAT ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, YOU STARTED TO ASK, WHY, OR HOW COULD I HAVE NOTICED. BUT THAT'S ALSO SORT OF SOMETHING THAT WE GO THROUGH AS A SOCIETY, OR AS A COMMUNITY, TO MAKE THIS MORE ABOUT ALBUQUERQUE AND NEW MEXICO. WE LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE THIS, AND YOU SAID THAT YOUR EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN WE IMMEDIATELY START LOOKING FOR THAT ONE THING.

>> YEAH, AND I THINK WE'RE ALL LEARNING. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY AS A FAMILY, THIS IS SO DIFFICULT FOR US TO JUST WRAP OUR BRAINS AROUND. BUT AS WE ARE LEARNING, AS THE EXPERTS, YOUR PANEL MENTIONED, THERE ARE SO MANY FACTORS. YOU KNOW, CENTRAL TO THOSE FACTORS IS THE STATE OF A YOUNG KID'S, IN THIS CASE, MENTAL HEALTH, RIGHT, BUT THERE ARE MANY, MANY FACTORS, YOU KNOW. THEY MENTIONED EARLY -- YOU KNOW, COULD THERE HAVE BEEN AN EARLY BRAIN TRAUMA THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT. COULD HE HAVE FALLEN. COULD THERE HAVE BEEN SOME EARLY SIGNS OF A SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS THAT, AGAIN, HADN'T REALLY STARTED MANIFESTING ITSELF WHERE THE FAMILY WOULD HAVE PICKED IT UP. THE OTHER THING IS, EVEN THOUGH WE DID SEE HIM FAIRLY REGULARLY, HE WAS VERY INVOLVED IN HIS FAITH AND HIS CHURCH COMMUNITY. THIS WAS, AGAIN, A FAMILY THAT REALLY THEIR COMMUNITY, OUTSIDE OF THE FAMILY, WAS REALLY THE CHURCH. AND THERE ARE MANY, MANY FOLKS THERE. I MEAN, THIS A HUGE

CONGREGATION THAT INTERACTED WITH THEM. WE'VE HEARD FROM MANY, MANY OF THEM, AND IT'S THE SAME THING THAT WE SAW, AND SOME OF THEM SAW MORE THAN WE DID BECAUSE HE WAS THERE IN THE MUSIC MINISTRY, AND HE WAS THERE. THEY SAID, THIS IS A KID WHO IS PASSIONATE ABOUT MUSIC, WHO IS, YOU KNOW, A PRETTY GOOD ATHLETE, WHO LIKED THE SAME KIND OF THINGS YOUNG BOYS LIKE. HE WAS SKATE BOARDING AND HE WAS PLAYING BASKETBALL. HE WAS A GREAT MUSICIAN, SO CERTAINLY NOBODY THOUGHT THAT HE WAS SORT OF DEVELOPMENTALLY DELAYED OR ANYTHING, BECAUSE HE REALLY -- SO IT'S NOT ONLY BAFFLING TO HIS IMMEDIATE FAMILY, HIS AUNTS AND UNCLES AND COUSINS, BUT TO THE LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE WHO SAW HIM WEEKLY, BECAUSE HE WAS VERY INVOLVED IN THE MINISTRY OVER THERE. SO I THINK THAT AS A SOCIETY, WE ALL SCRATCH OUR HEADS. YOU KNOW, HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? AND I THINK THE PANEL DID RAISE SOME VERY, VERY VALID QUESTIONS, AND WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES AS A COMMUNITY, ARE WE DOING ENOUGH TO SCREEN FOR THIS? ARE WE DOING ENOUGH TO DE-STIGMATIZE IT? I MEAN, TO SAY, LOOK, IT

SHOULDN'T BE A SOURCE OF SHAME AND EMBARRASSMENT IF THERE ARE SOME ISSUES IN YOUR FAMILY. AND I THINK THAT WAS A VERY VALID POINT THEY MADE. YOU KNOW, WE'VE LEARNED A LOT ABOUT ADOLESCENT MENTAL HEALTH. I'VE PROBABLY LEARNED MORE ABOUT IT IN THE LAST 30 DAYS THAN I HAVE IN MY WHOLE LIFE. >> I'LL BET. WE HAVE THE TENDENCY, I THINK, TO SAY SO-AND-SO IS MENTALLY ILL, AS OPPOSED TO SUFFERING FROM A MENTAL ILLNESS, THAT IT'S AN INFLICTION, AND WE'RE SEEING THAT MAYBE EVEN TODAY AS WE TALK. THE PRESIDENT HAS TALKED ABOUT BRINGING SOME SORT OF PARITY TO MENTAL HEALTH WHEN THE ACA, OR OBAMA CARE GOES INTO EFFECT IN ITS FULL MEASURE. ARE WE AFRAID TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THIS, DO YOU THINK? >> WELL, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH MANY PEOPLE ON, IS THAT WE ARE OKAY WITH, YOU KNOW, KIDNEY FAILURE, OR SOMETHING ASSOCIATED WITH THE KIDNEY, THE HEART. PEOPLE ARE REALLY RELUCTANT TO THINK OF THE BRAIN AS AN ORGAN THAT COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE ISSUES. SOMEHOW THAT THROWS OUR SOCIETY OFF, YOU KNOW, AND

THAT CONCERNS ME. GETTING BACK TO THE NOTION OF SCREENING, I DON'T KNOW THAT PARENTS ARE TAUGHT THAT THIS POTENTIALLY COULD HAPPEN AND ARE TRAINED TO SCREEN. I MEAN, WHEN I THOUGHT ABOUT IT, I SAID, YOU KNOW, HE DIDN'T KICK DOGS OR, YOU KNOW, THROW ROCKS AT CATS, OR DO ANY KIND OF -- NOTHING LIKE THAT. >> ANYTHING YOU WOULD CONSIDER THE OBVIOUS. >> RIGHT. HE CRIED, SO IT'S NOT LIKE HE WAS EMOTIONALLY UNAFFECTED. THERE WAS NOTHING THAT TOLD US THAT. BUT THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOMETHING THAT WE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND ABOUT MENTAL ILLNESS. PHYSICIAN TO LOOK FOR THESE KIND OF CHARACTERISTICS IN YOUR CHILD, AND THIS IS WHEN YOU SHOULD BE ALARMED. YOU KNOW, I HAD ALL THE LITTLE FLOW CHARTS ON WHAT TO DO WHEN THEY HAD PARTICULAR FEVERS OR THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING AROUND MENTAL ILLNESS. >> RIGHT. LOUISE, IS THERE -- >> I THINK AND THE STIGMATISM THAT GOES ALONG

WITH THAT ALSO RESULTS IN BAD THINGS. AND THEN IT'S SENSATIONALIZED, AND THAT YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SEE SOMEONE THAT HAS KILLED, LIKE WITH US, FIVE MEMBERS OF OUR FAMILY, RIGHT AWAY YOU WANT TO MAKE THEM OUT TO BE A BAD PERSON, BECAUSE HOW CAN A NORMAL PERSON, HOW CAN ANYONE WITH ANY KIND OF SANITY, THAT COULD BE WALKING AROUND, BE WALKING AROUND LIKE THAT WHEN YOU DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND IT'S FEAR. AND UNFORTUNATELY, I DO THINK THAT THAT IS ENCOURAGED, THE SENSATIONALISM OF IT. AND IT DOESN'T HELP THE ISSUE, AND IT DOESN'T HIT WHAT WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT. RESOURCES, EARLY INDICATIONS AND INDICATORS, AND HELPING PEOPLE, LIKE MY SISTER SAID, WHO ARE NOT WALKING AROUND WITH KIDNEY FAILURE, BUT THEY DO HAVE A CONDITION

THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED, AND ADDRESSED SERIOUSLY. >> YOU TALK ABOUT THIS FEAR THAT IF WE CAN IDENTIFY SOMETHING, OR SAY, WELL, CLEARLY THIS WAS A SCHIZOPHRENIA ISSUE, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEN WE CAN SAY, AT LEAST IT WON'T HAPPEN TO ME. >> EXACTLY. >> WHICH IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU FOUND, IT SOUNDS LIKE. >> EXACTLY. THAT'S IT EXACTLY. >> I THINK THAT WE KEEP HOPING THAT SOMETHING GOOD WILL COME OF THIS, AND WE HOPE THAT THERE WILL BE A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES ARE REAL AND THEY EXIST IN EVERY FAMILY, AND THAT THAT DOESN'T MEAN EVERYBODY HAS MENTAL ILLNESS IN A FAMILY, BUT THAT WE, AS A SOCIETY, NEED TO BE GIVING IT THE KIND OF PARITY, AS YOU MENTIONED, WITH THE REST OF HEALTH CARE. AS A COMMUNITY AND AS CITIZENS AND TAXPAYERS, YOU KNOW, DO WE THINK IT'S IMPORTANT ENOUGH? YOU KNOW, THE PHYSICIANS MENTIONED THAT THE GREAT MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WITH

MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND MENTAL ILLNESS KILL THEMSELVES FIRST. THIS IS ACTUALLY AN ANOMALY. THIS IS A RARE CASE, WHAT HAPPENED. SO OBVIOUSLY NO ONE, CERTAINLY NO ONE IN OUR FAMILY EVER, IN OUR WILDEST DREAMS, COULD HAVE EVER THOUGHT OF ANYTHING LIKE THIS. AND WHO DOES? BUT IF WE CAN SORT OF, AS A FAMILY, SAY THIS IS AN ILLNESS, WE HOPE THAT OUR NEPHEW WILL BE ABLE TO RECOVER FROM IT, WE HOPE HE WILL BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO RECOVER FROM IT, AND THE ACCESS TO CARE TO RECOVER FROM IT. RIGHT NOW, ALL OF THOSE ARE IN QUESTION. IS THERE EVEN ACCESS? IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM SO BIASED TOWARD PUNITIVE MEASURES THAT EVEN FOR A 15-YEAR-OLD KID WHOSE FAMILY IS OVERWHELMINGLY SAYING, THIS IS NOT WHO WE KNEW, IS THERE GOING TO BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM TO GET THE CARE THAT HE NEEDS TO HOPEFULLY REBUILD WHATEVER IS LEFT OF HIS LIFE AT WHATEVER AGE? SO I THINK THAT I HOLD OUT HOPE THAT COME GOOD WILL

COME FROM THIS, AS HARD AS IT IS, AS INCREDIBLY DEVASTATING AS IT IS FOR OUR FAMILY. WE HOPE SO. >> YOU SAID THAT THERE'S A REAL DIFFICULTY FOR YOU DEALING WITH THIS, BECAUSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO GET TO THAT STEP, BUT IT'S A COURT CASE RIGHT NOW, AND THAT EVERY MEETING WITH A PSYCHIATRIST, A PSYCHOLOGIST, SOMEONE WHO CAN TALK AND MAYBE DIG INTO THIS A LITTLE BIT, THAT'S EVIDENCE. >> RIGHT. >> WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THAT? >> I KNOW. AND NEHEMIAH, EVEN NOW WHEN A NORMAL KID, YOU KNOW. BUT THE PROBLEM IS, WHERE HE IS RIGHT NOW, HE CANNOT RECEIVE TRUE TREATMENT. ANY SYMPTOMS, LIKE FLASHBACKS AND STUFF, THEY BASICALLY HAVE TO SUPPRESS THAT KIND OF POTENTIAL FOR GETTING THROUGH AND DIAGNOSING PROPERLY AND TREATING PROPERLY. SO WE'RE HOPING THAT HE'LL GET TO A MENTAL HEALTH FACILITY, CERTAINLY ONE THAT HAS SECURITY. BUT FOR SURE, MY GREATEST

FEAR IS THAT HE MIGHT HURT HIMSELF WHERE HE'S AT. >> AND, YOU KNOW, WE UNDERSTAND THAT PUBLIC SAFETY IS IMPORTANT, AND NONE OF US -- WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT HE'S CAPABLE OF BEING HOPEFULLY SOMEDAY OUT IN SOCIETY AGAIN, BUT THAT HE'S ABLE TO DO THAT IN A WAY THAT'S SAFE FOR HIMSELF AND SAFE FOR THE COMMUNITY AND THE FAMILY. NOBODY WANTS HIM TO BE SORT OF PUT OUT THERE AND PUTTING ANYBODY IN DANGER. HOWEVER, I THINK THE BIAS IN OUR SYSTEM, VERY MUCH, EVEN FOR ADOLESCENTS, EVEN FOR KIDS, IS ON THE PUNISHMENT, IS ON THE SORT OF ACCOUNTABILITY, EVEN FOR SOMEONE WHOSE BRAIN WAS PROBABLY NOT FULLY DEVELOPED -- THAT WE KNOW WAS NOT FULLY DEVELOPED, AND CERTAINLY ALSO MAY HAVE HAD SOME SERIOUS MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES GOING ON. SO WE'RE JUST HOPING THAT WE WILL LEARN FROM THIS, AND THAT WE WILL TRY TO ADDRESS THE REAL PROBLEM, WHICH IS WHAT WENT WRONG IN A 15-YEAR-OLD KID'S LIFE THAT WAS SEEMINGLY NORMAL, FROM A PRETTY GOOD FAMILY. I MEAN, WE'RE NOT A PERFECT FAMILY, LIKE NO FAMILY IS.

AND SO WE'RE HOPING THAT HOPEFULLY, AGAIN, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WILL COME OF THIS, WE HOPE. >> WELL, ERIC, REGINA, LOUISE, WE REALLY THANK YOU FOR COMING IN AND SPENDING JUST A FEW MINUTES. WE KNOW THAT YOUR ROAD IS MUCH LONGER, BUT THANKS FOR MAKING A STOP. >> THANK YOU, MATT. >> THANK YOU. BIT ABOUT ANYBODY THAT ABANDONS THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES IN THIS WAY. >> SURE. >> AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE. WE DON'T KNOW THOSE KIND OF DETAILS. BUT I THINK IF A PUBLIC OFFICIAL DOES DO THIS, I THINK THE HONORABLE THING IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KNOW THAT THEY HAVE TAKEN FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT CHILD. >> "MAKERS" IS A LANDMARK DIGITAL AND BROADCAST INITIATIVE FROM AOL AND PBS SHOWCASING HUNDREDS OF COMPELLING STORIES FROM THE WOMEN OF TODAY AND THE LEADERS OF TOMORROW. THE PROJECT CENTERS ON A THREE-HOUR DOCUMENTARY -

"MAKERS: WOMEN WHO MAKE STREEP, AND IT FEATURES INTERVIEWS WITH SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR, OPRAH WINFREY, DOLORES HUERTA, AND GLORIA STEINEM, JUST TO NAME A FEW. IT PREMIERS NEXT TUESDAY ON NEW MEXICO PBS. >> I'VE GOT QUITE AN ARREST RECORD, AND THAT'S FOR CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE, YOU KNOW. CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE. AND ACTUALLY, MOST OF THE ARRESTS, THOUGH, WERE JUST BECAUSE WE WOULD GO INTO THE FIELDS TO TALK TO WORKERS, AND THEY WOULD ARREST US. IN FACT, SOMETIMES WE GOT ARRESTED BEFORE WE EVEN SPOKE TO THE WORKERS. YOU KNOW, WE WOULD JUST DRIVE UP TO THE FIELDS, AND THEN THE POLICE WOULD JUST GET US AND ARREST US. I THINK EVERYBODY SHOULD GO TO JAIL AT SOME POINT IN TIME, BECAUSE I THINK WHEN YOU'RE IN JAIL, THEN YOU SEE PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE THAT PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE THERE. AND I IMAGINE NOW IT'S EVEN WORSE THAN IT WAS THEN. >> IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE NATIONAL MAKERS EFFORT, NEW MEXICO InFOCUS WILL AIR INTERVIEWS WITH MAKERS WHO LIVE RIGHT HERE IN OUR STATE. CORRESPONDENT SARAH GUSTAVUS TALKS WITH GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ, ARTIST AND FEMINIST JUDY CHICAGO, AND

LADONNA HARRIS, PRESIDENT OF AMERICANS FOR INDIAN OPPORTUNITY. HERE'S A LOOK AT NEXT WEEK'S INTERVIEW WITH JUDY CHICAGO. >> SUDDENLY, PEOPLE DISCOVERED THAT THERE WAS MORE TO MY WORK THAN "THE DINNER PARTY," AND THAT SEEMS TO HAVE INITIATED A BIG CHANGE, BECAUSE SUDDENLY PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO LOOK AT OTHER BODIES OF MY ART. IT'S JUST FABULOUS. IT'S FABULOUS. I'M JUST GLAD I LIVED LONG ENOUGH TO SEE THAT. AND A REVIEW IN ART MAGAZINE THAT SAID: "JUDY CHICAGO'S EARLY WORK WAS TOO RADICAL FOR THE L.A. MACHO ART SCENE." I'M LIKE, YES! >> TUNE IN ON TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 26, AT 7:00 P.M. FOR "MAKERS: WOMEN WHO MAKE AMERICA." AND WATCH FOR THE "NEW MEXICO MAKERS" SEGMENTS THAT WILL AIR RIGHT HERE ON NMiF OVER THE NEXT THREE WEEKS. >> IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE A MORE SURPRISING HEADLINE: IN SECRECY. THIS WEEK, FACED WITH THE

STORY COMING OUT SOME OTHER WAY, THE VENERATED NEW MEXICO SENATOR PETE DOMENICI ADMITTED HE FATHERED A SON MORE THAN THREE DECADES BACK WITH THE DAUGHTER OF A FELLOW U.S. SENATOR. THE NEWS WOULD HAVE BEEN EXPLOSIVE BACK IN THE LATE '70s, AND SENATOR DOMENICI MIGHT HAVE FACED THE VERY REAL PROSPECT OF A SINGLE TERM IN THE U.S. SENATE, CONSIDERING WHEN THIS HAPPENED, INSTEAD OF THE SIX THAT WE KNOW HIM FOR. NOW, JAMIE, WE KNOW SO LITTLE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED OTHER THAN JUST THE VERY BASICS, BUT I JUST GOT TO SAY THIS. THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO TALK ABOUT THIS WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT CHOICES AND MORAL CHOICES, WE JUST HAVE TO GO THERE. NOW, MR. DOMENICI WAS 46 AND SHE WAS 24 AT THE TIME. SHE SAYS IT WAS A ONE-NIGHT STAND, IT WAS REGRETTABLE AND A MISTAKE. THAT HAPPENS IN THIS WORLD. BUT HE WAS A SITTING U.S. SENATOR, AND HIS COLLEAGUE, YOU KNOW, HIS COLLEAGUE WAS RIGHT DOWN THE AISLE, SO TO SPEAK. THOUGHT WHEN YOU HEARD THIS STORY? >> I WAS SHOCKED. I OPENED MY I-PAD, READ THE NEWS, AND I COULDN'T BELIEVE MY EYES. I HAD TO READ IT A COUPLE OF TIMES. I WAS LIKE, REALLY? THIS REALLY HAPPENED?

I THINK THAT'S HOW MOST NEW MEXICANS PROBABLY REACTED, AS WELL. BUT, YOU KNOW, I IMMEDIATELY THEN I THINK PIVOTED TO, DOES THIS REALLY MATTER IN THE LONG RUN FOR PETE DOMENICI? BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY WHERE PEOPLE GO, ESPECIALLY FOR A GUY WHO SERVED THE STATE LONGER THAN ANY OTHER SENATOR, HAS BUILDINGS NAMED AFTER HIM, A WHOLE INSTITUTE AT NMSU, MY ALMA MATER, YOU KNOW. >> WHICH WOULD BE JUST THE TIP OF A HUGE LIST OF ACCOMPLISHMENTS, ABSOLUTELY. >> YES, EXACTLY. AND I WONDERED HOW THAT WOULD IMPACT THAT. BUT, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT ABOUT IT IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT AND WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE NEWS, THE NEWS ABOUT THE DEBT AND THE SEQUESTER. HE'S PLAYING A PIVOTAL ROLE. HE'S SORT OF COME OUT AS THE SENIOR STATESMAN, IF YOU WILL, WITH ALICE RUBEN, WORKING ON THESE -- >> RIVLIN. >> RIVLIN; EXCUSE ME. LOOKING AT THESE ISSUES. AND I THINK THAT'S -- I DON'T KNOW. I THINK THAT IT ADDS ANOTHER COLOR TO THE WHOLE DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT, TOO. >> SURE. >> AND THEN I THINK PEOPLE PIVOTED ALSO TO THE CLINTON IMPEACHMENT AND SAID, OKAY, THERE WAS AN HYPOCRISY ON THAT ISSUE. YOU KNOW, HE WAS A CHAMPION

FOR CHARACTER COUNTS. PEOPLE LOOKED TO THAT ONE, AS WELL. AND I'M LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS GUY DID A LOT OF GOOD FOR NEW MEXICO, AND WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AS A WHOLE. >> LET ME GO TO SOPHIE ON THIS, BECAUSE I HEAR THAT A LOT. YOU'RE NOT SAYING THIS DIRECTLY, BUT SOME OTHERS ARE SAYING THAT THERE'S THE IT-WAS-A-LONG-TIME-AGO THEORY. YOU KNOW, THAT IT DOESN'T SORT OF COUNT ONCE THERE'S A CERTAIN STATUE OF LIMITATIONS, SO TO SPEAK. YOU DO WHEN YOU'RE 46 DO COUNT. I'M NOT QUITE THERE, BUT I FEEL LIKE WHEN I GET THERE, THEY'LL COUNT. >> THEY COUNTED FOR ME. >> I THINK THAT AS LONG AS SENATOR DOMENICI HAS MADE A CLEAN BREAST OF THINGS, AS LONG AS THERE ISN'T MORE, AND I WOULD SAY TYPICALLY THE COUNSEL HERE IS, IF YOU CAN SAY EVERYTHING, SAY EVERYTHING AND GET IT OUT THERE, BECAUSE THIS SORT OF ANNOUNCEMENT DOES INVITE ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATION INTO ADDITIONAL INQUIRY. SO MY HOPE FOR THE STATE, FOR THE DOMENICI FAMILY, FOR SENATOR DOMENICI'S REPUTATION GOING FORWARD IS

THAT HE HAS MADE A CLEAN BREAST AND EVERYTHING IS OUT. I THINK THAT HE DID THE RIGHT THING IN SPEAKING FIRST TO THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL. HE SPOKE FIRST TO THE COMMUNITY THAT HAD SUPPORTED HIM FOR SO LONG, AND THAT AT LEAST LOCALLY THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A VERY DIFFERENT STORY IF IT HAD BROKEN THROUGH THE AP, IF IT HAD BROKEN THROUGH THE WASHINGTON POST. HE SPOKE TO US FIRST, AND I THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR HIM AND HIS TEAM. >> I LIKE WHERE THIS IS GOING, ERIC, BECAUSE NOW WE'RE GETTING INTO LEGACY ISSUES AND THE THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE PART OF THE MIX, AS JAMIE POINTED OUT. BUT DID THE SENATOR NOT IN FACT, I HAVE TO ASK THIS, PLY THE PUBLIC'S TRUST A LITTLE BIT DURING ALL THIS TIME? IS THERE SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE CONSIDERED IN THE LEGACY IN THAT VEIN, THAT HE WAS NOT EXACTLY HONEST WITH US? OR, IN FACT, WAS IT OUR BUSINESS TO KNOW ABOUT THIS? POINT, AND THAT IS, IN FACT, A DOUBLE STANDARD BETWEEN PUBLIC OFFICIALS AND PRIVATE CITIZENS. PEOPLE DO DO THINGS LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME, AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S THEIR BUSINESS. IT'S BETWEEN THEM AND THEIR

FAMILY. BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS, WHEN YOU'RE A PUBLIC OFFICIAL, PARTICULARLY -- AND I HAVE TREMENDOUS, TREMENDOUS, TREMENDOUS RESPECT FOR SENATOR DOMENICI, I THINK LIKE EVERYBODY AT THIS TABLE. OUR STATE HAS BENEFITED INCREDIBLY FROM HIS SERVICE. BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, WHEN YOU DO GO OUT AND YOU ACTIVELY PROMOTE THINGS LIKE CHARACTER COUNTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, WHEN YOU'RE OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, RUNNING THOSE KIND OF MESSAGES AND SOMETHING LIKE THIS COMES AROUND TO BITE YOU -- NOW, WHO KNOWS WHAT KIND OF INTERNAL PROCESSES HE'S BEEN GOING THROUGH FOR THE LAST 30, 34 YEARS, AND THE MOTHER OF THE CHILD, AND THE CHILD ITSELF. THOSE THINGS TEND TO BE SELF-PUNISHING, AS IT WERE, AND PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU FACE THE PROSPECT, LIKE A SITTING U.S. SENATOR, OF HAVING THINGS LIKE THIS REVEALED. IT'S A TOUGH ARENA, AND WHEN YOU GET INTO THAT GAME, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW IS A POSSIBILITY. >> SURE. CHRIS, THERE WAS A PIECE OUT THURSDAY IN "THE DAILY BEAST" PROPOSING THAT MS. LAXALT, BY NOT SAYING

ANYTHING, SPARED A LOT OF PEOPLE A LOT OF PAIN, AND SHE ACTUALLY DID QUITE THE RIGHT THING INSTEAD OF SAYING WHO THE FATHER WAS, EVEN TO THE POINT WHERE WE DON'T KNOW -- I MEAN, THE FAMILY KNEW WHAT WAS UP, BUT BASICALLY, OUTSIDE THE FAMILY. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT, THAT THAT WAS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO? IT WAS HER CHOICE. SHE HUNG IT ON MORALS IN HER STATEMENT. HOW DID THAT HIT YOU WHEN >> OH, WELL, LOOK, I THINK IT'S BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM AS THE MOTHER AND THE FATHER. BUT LET'S GO BACK TO DOMENICI'S LEGACY, JUST FOR A BIT. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ASKING, IS THIS GOING TO EFFECT HIS LEGACY, AND I DON'T THINK -- I MEAN, IN THE SHORT-TERM, YES, BUT IN THE LONG-TERM, WE HAVE TO LOOK AND SEE HOW MUCH HE'S DONE FOR THIS STATE. I MEAN, HE'S REALLY BEEN A FIGHTER FOR JOBS AND THE LABS. I THINK SENATOR DOLE AT ONE TIME WAS QUOTED AS SAYING THAT HE WAS TIRED OF HEARING THE WORDS LOS ALAMOS COME OUT OF DOMENICI'S MOUTH. AND THAT'S JUST THE KIND OF GUY HE WAS. HE WAS VERY PERSISTENT ABOUT FIGHTING FOR JOBS HERE, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE HIS LEGACY. >> BUT DOES HE GET A PASS? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

DOES HE GET A PASS HERE? >> I'M NOT SAYING HE GETS A PASS, BUT LOOK, WE'RE ALL HUMAN, WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES. WE TEND TO PUT OUR POLITICIANS ON A PEDESTAL, BUT IN THE END, THEY'RE HUMAN. >> THE CONCERN I HAVE WITH ALL OF THIS IS THAT I THINK MS. LAXALT WAS PROBABLY IN A POSITION, PERHAPS, TO BE ABLE TO RAISE THE CHILD ON HER OWN WITHOUT ANY FINANCIAL SUPPORT, PERHAPS, AND I THINK THAT -- YOU KNOW, IT BOTHERS ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ANYBODY THAT ABANDONS THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES IN THIS WAY. AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE. WE DON'T KNOW THOSE KIND OF DETAILS. BUT I THINK IF A PUBLIC OFFICIAL DOES DO THIS, I THINK THE HONORABLE THING IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KNOW THAT THEY HAVE TAKEN FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT CHILD. >> RIGHT, AND WE CARRY FORWARD FROM THERE. >> RIGHT. >> WE DON'T KNOW THE FINANCIAL IMPLICATIONS OF THE SITUATION, SO THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS WE DON'T KNOW. AND AGAIN, PERHAPS IT'S NOT OUR BUSINESS. BUT I DO HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION FOR YOU. THE HANDLING OF THE STORY IN THE JOURNAL, THERE WERE A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT EITHER SEEMED UNASKED OR UNANSWERED, MEANING ONE OF THOSE THINGS ABOUT, DID YOU PAY MONEY OVER THE COURSE OF THE CHILD'S LIFE?

A LOT OF THINGS. WERE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THE JOURNAL'S APPROACH HERE? >> MY SUSPICION IS THAT THE JOURNAL TOOK WHAT THEY COULD GET. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I MEAN, HERE'S A SITUATION IN WHICH DOMENICI AND HIS TEAM ARE COMING IN WITH THIS STORY, THE JOURNAL DOESN'T WANT TO SEE THAT WALK AWAY TO ANOTHER PUBLICATION. SO MY SUSPICION IS THEY TOOK WHAT THEY COULD GET, AND THEY DID THE BEST THAT THEY COULD. I THINK THAT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THE COVERAGE GOES FORWARD, WHETHER THEY WILL KIND OF STICK TO THAT NARROW ROW OR WHETHER THEY WILL -- >> BECAUSE THERE'S SOME REPORTING THAT'S STARTING TO COME OUT. OBVIOUSLY THE NATIONAL PRESS IS NOT GOING TO LEAVE THIS ALONE, IT'S EVERYWHERE, SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE DIGGING, THE JOURNAL'S GOING TO DO THEIR BIT, TOO. BUT I APPRECIATE ALL YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. IT'S A TRICKY ONE TO TALK ABOUT. WE ALL LOVE SENATOR DOMINICI AT THIS TABLE. IT'S A VERY TRICKY ONE TO TALK ABOUT, SO IT'S A DIFFICULTY. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP THIS WEEK. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SPECIAL ONLINE "ON THE CLOCK." CHECK IT OUT AT NewMexicoInFocus.org. >> THANKS FOR SPENDING YOUR VALUABLE TIME WITH US THIS WEEK AS WE JOIN A NATIONAL CONVERSATION AND DEBATE ABOUT GUN LAWS AND MENTAL

HEALTH. NEXT WEEK, WE'RE BACK AT THE LEGISLATURE AS THE SESSION HURLS TOWARDS ITS ENDS IN JUST THREE WEEKS. I'M GENE GRANT. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK, InFOCUS.