In Black America; Hollywood Icon Robert Townsend

From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio, this is In Black America. Well, you know, here's the thing. I just gravitate to what I want to create, and sometimes people will send me a script or there's an idea that I have, so when I think in terms of the five heartbeat, for example, I wanted to do a movie about five guys, total different guys, and how they become a family making music. And so that's how that came about. Meadeer Man, I wanted to be the first African-American superhero, and I wanted it to be funny, and I wanted to make it for kids, so Holiday Hark, which is a film that I directed. I think, you know, it's a theme, you know, of non-traditional family. But I think anytime, you know, I create stuff, even the parenthood, that I just really wanted

to help raise a generation of kids because I know they're going to be sitting in front of the TV. So how do I give them, you know, basic lessons on morals and values, and that's why I created that show. Robert Townsend, comedian, actor, film director, producer, writer, and former cable network programming CEO. He has been referred to as the Godfather of the independent film world. With more than three decades in the entertainment industry, many of us remember the memorable work he has produced. He is the genius behind Hollywood Shuffle, The Meadeer Man, and The Five Hark Beans. Townsend also created award-winning programming for television. This include partners in crime for HBO, Townsend Television for Fox Television, and the WB Network Series, The Parent Hood. His most recent project for television is directing American Soul. The untold story of Soul Train and The Man Behind Its Legacy, Down Cornelius.

Townsend documentary, Making The Five Hark Beans, was a nominee for our standing documentary at the 50th NAACP Image Awards. I'm Johnny Ohenson Jr., and welcome to another edition of In Black America. On this week's program, The Legendary, Robert Townsend, In Black America. I would say it has changed, you know, I mean, there's a lot more images of people of color. There's a lot of new voices that have emerged, so, you know, when I started, it was just basically me and Spike. And then, you know, Keenan started to make, you know, movies, and then John Singleton appeared. So, you know, now there's a whole new crop of filmmakers that are, you know, aggressive and taking chances, and so it is a different Hollywood now. As a child growing up on Chicago's West Side, Hollywood icon Robert Townsend is always been fascinated with the entertainment industry, raised by a single mother with four siblings

on welfare. He spent much of his afternoon time watching television. He began to practice acting out scenes and imitating famous characters. His first film break came as an extra and coolly high. From there, he landed a role co-starring opposite Denzel Washington in a soldier's story. Any work for African American actors hard to come by, he decided to step out on his own as an independent filmmaker. He wrote, directed, produced, and starred in Hollywood Shuffle. The film was a satire depicting the trials and tribulations of African American actors in Tinseltown. The success of the movie made Hollywood take notice, and Townsend was on his way to bigger projects. Eddie Murphy was so impressed with Hollywood Shuffle. He asked him to direct Eddie Murphy Raw. Townsend has been the genius behind many of Hollywood's favorite and best remembered hit series and movies.

Recently in Black America, he had an opportunity for the exclusive interview with Robert Townsend. I grew up, man, it was rough. I lived in K-town. And it was gangs on every corner, and I couldn't play outside because my mother was afraid that I was going to get recruited by one of the gangs. And so it was a rough time, but it was through that that I learned about theater and television and movies, because I was this little kid. What was some of the TV shows that you frequently watched? Why you were destined for the house? I watched everything. As a kid, I watched everything, so you can hitchcock, Alfred Hitchcock. I watched The Guns of Will Sonnet. I love Lucy. You name a TV show. And Lassie, I watched everything. I even watched PBS. I watched opera, French movies. I was a strange little kid, but I loved it all.

So what was life like going up in the house with you at three other siblings? Yeah. I am the second oldest. There's my sister, my sister Beverly is the oldest, and then my brother Steve is under me and in my sister Ann. And so we lived in a little small house, you know, apartment, and you know, it was my mother had remarried then and my stepfather, Roosevelt, and basically the bathroom was my room. And so in the bathroom is where I would, you know, go into my fantasy world, creating my characters and stuff. Yeah, good acoustics in there. Exactly. And it's not where it started for me doing, you know, doing impressions and characters and stuff when I was, when I was like nine, nine, ten. What was it about that shake, the spirit and play when you were in high school that gave you the impetus that maybe this is something I want to do for a living? Well, what it was was that it was really in grammar school.

I was in fifth grade, and there was a teacher. His name was James Reed, and he wanted kids in the hood to learn about Shakespeare. And so he had us read like three pages of, you know, a scene from Shakespeare. And I just remember it was really, really hard. And you know, this is how I really started because, you know, I was a kid in the hood, and so I wanted to get an A on the paper and, you know, just to read it and, you know, it looked so hard to me. So I went to the library and I stole all the Shakespeare records because I'm a little little kid. Right. And I go, I'm going to listen to them and see if I can understand it better. And when I listened to them on our stereo, you know, in the house, I kind of understood it. And so when we had to read, you know, a scene from Eta Pesarex in class, I could really, you know, do it like the Royal Shakespeare Company. And so as I read the scene, the class went crazy, but the teacher was like, you have a

gift. And that's when it started for me. When did you develop your stand-up comedy? You know what, I always was a fan of, you know, comedians that I saw on the Ed Sullivan show. Right. And because, you know, I like making people laugh and I've always, you know, thought really silly and funny. I don't know. I don't know in the very first time. There was a club in Chicago called Punch and Nellows and Punch and Nellows was in downtown Chicago. And I remember that was the first time I performed stand-up. And I had a routine where I would, you know, turn around in a circle and I would do these different characters. And I called it, you know, something like, I don't know, you know, change the channel. And then I could do all these different voices. And that was my first routine. What gave you the courage to move to New York? Well, it wasn't so much the courage. There was a teacher.

I was going to school at Illinois State University in Normal Bloomington. And I was there and I was a freshman and I was fascinated with theater in New York. And there was a teacher that was there from New York. And I would ask about, you know, New York. And I was like, how do the actors, what is Broadway like? How do the actors, she says, stop asking me about New York because you don't have what it takes to make it in New York. You don't have what it takes to make it in this business. And she shut me down. And I called my mother because it was devastating to me and I called my mother and I said, you know what? I am going to transfer to New York to a school in New York. I got to see if I can make it, if I can do what's in my heart. And I transferred, there was a student exchange program and I transferred to a college. I couldn't get into New York, but I got a college 20 minutes from New York, William Patterson College in Patterson, New Jersey. And I transferred.

And that's how I got to New York because of that teacher. And what did you major in? Theater. I made a mass communications and theater. So I did all, you know, I was a theater minor and radio and TV communications was my major. And how long did you stay in New York before you decided to move where you are now in Los Angeles? Well, I lived in New York for about six, seven years and I was doing stand up. I had met a young comedian online, you know, lining up to get, you know, to an audition for the improv. And that was Ken and I every Wednesday. So Ken and I, you know, were the only brothers on standing outside waiting to audition and we became like, you know, really good friends. And Ken and move to LA first, Ken and move to LA first. And then after Ken and move to LA, then that's when I, you know, Ken said, hey Rob, I'll fly back to New York and we can drive your stuff across country.

You got to come to LA. And that's how I got to LA, Ken, to drove your cross country. Did you ever run across Bernie Mac, why you and Chicago, did you all do the same club? No, no, I never, because I had left by that point and I was just doing movies and television. And when I met Bernie, I was directing BAPs and there was a little small part in BAPs and everybody was like, this guy at a Chicago, you need to meet him, Bernie Mac. And then Bernie did, you know, the cameo in BAPs, you know, but I didn't know him, you know, I just knew he was a funny man, I know my God, but I would see him at clubs and he goes, you know, I'm from Chicago, boy, you know, I'm from Chicago, you know, we, we, we Chicago boys, you guys took together, you know, and I was just like, man, but he was a, he was a beautiful brother, a beautiful brother.

I understand, if you're just joining us, I'm Johnny Enhancing Jr., and you're listening to End Black America from KUT Radio, and we're speaking with Robert Townsend, actor, comedian, film director, former CEO of a network writer and one of my favorite TV programs that I watch constantly now, the parenthood. Mr. Townsend, tell us about that cameo role in Cooley High. You know, when I was a young actor in Chicago, I was doing theater at an X-Bag, it was called X-Bag, Experimental Black Actors Guild, and the director, my first director there, Pay Moon Rami, he was also working on a movie, this new movie coming to Chicago doing extras and helping out behind the scenes, it was called Cooley High. So the director, Michael Schultz, came to see me in the play at X-Bag, and then he goes, oh, you're going to have an audition, and so I went in an audition, I had a little small part, but I had never done a movie before, and that movie changed my life, because I had

two lines in the movie, but then the movie became a classic when I saw it, I said, I want to make movies like that, those are the kind of movies I want to make, and that kind of change. I remember watching it, I think it was downtown at the Woods Theater, was the premiere or something, and I just remember seeing that movie, and it just changed me, because back then we had, you know, black exploitation movies, you know, but they were just my hero, so I can't even say exploitation, they were. It was the first time we had, you know, black men and women kicking butt and taking names and falling in love and getting a girl, and, you know, so they were my hero, so I don't know what people say, black exploitation, you know, but that was a certain, that was a certain genre, but then Cooley High came out, and it was like my childhood, it was like me and my boys hanging out, so that, that was how it began, but that audition with Michael Schultz.

What was it like that first day on set, you know, you dream about being in a movie, but actually showing up and knowing, I'm going to be in a movie no matter how small the part is. Well, you know, you're in awe, you know, I mean, I was just like, oh my God, and I had, you know, seen Lauren Shieldon Jacobs and I knew Glenn Termin in their work, and so I was just like, oh my God, I'm getting to work with New York, you know, the New York, the A-list of New York, you know, black actors. So I was just in heaven, and then, you know, I didn't know Michael Schultz, you know, that the way he talked to actors, he just made everybody feel really comfortable. It's your homeboy. Yeah, yeah, he was just really cool, and it was just, you know, and we, we just had the best time, and I just remember like, wow, you know, this is what movies are like. Another memorable role playing Corporal Ellis in a soldier's story. Oh man, that was a ball because that was the first time I worked with Denzel.

Did you knew he was going to blow up like he has? Oh my God. I mean, he's always been really serious about his craft, so no, I was, I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised at all. I mean, you know, back then, you know, because he had done the show, the theater production of a soldier's play, and I was in L.A., and I remember loving the show, but then, you know, when they said, hey, they're going to make a movie, you know, they always go after the biggest names in Hollywood, and so Norman Jewish and who directed it, he was kind of like, you know what? I'm going to go with new faces, I'm not going to go with the traditional route. And then Ruben Cannon was casting it, and I went in for the part of Corporal Ellis, and I got it. And it was me, Denzel, David Allen Greer, Howard Rollins, Adolf Caesar, and we just had a ball. Now Caesar is not with us any longer, but the rest of them are, do you still get a chance to come across each other from time to time?

Well, you know, Howard Rollins passed away as well. Yes. You know, so I mean, but everybody's always, you know, everybody's busy, so we see each other every now and then like at an award show or something, but you know, people are always traveling. So if you're in the same city and you run into each other, we do still see each other. What was it important for you to make Hollywood shuffle? Well, Hollywood shuffle came at a time when the images of people of color were really negative. There were more, you know, they had, you know, the, the stereotypes in full effect, you know, you had pimps, you had drug dealers, you had gangsters, you know, that was just, and that's all you saw black men. So I was, either I was going to die because that's the box that, at that time, that Hollywood was putting all black, you know, actors in, and you know, rather than complain, I decided that I was going to make a movie, you know, well, Kenan and I decided that we were going

to make a movie about our journey as young actors in Hollywood, and that's kind of how it all started. We shot the movie in 12 days to finish the film. I used my credit cards, so it was just hustling on the highest level, and then the film became a huge success. I was going to ask you about that. Did you ever think it would be an iconic classic that I watch every time it comes on television? Yeah. Well, here's the thing that I would say is that when, when you create something that you're just having fun, and it's not about like what people think, Kenan and I were just having a good time and being silly and making each other laugh. We thought it was funny, and then eventually the world said, oh, this is really funny, and it just came together, but we were just having a good time. Did we think it was good? Yeah, we thought it was funny. You know, did we think it was going to take off the way it did? Not really.

We just knew we had done something different and special. That same year you all, you directed Eddie Murphy's Raw. How did you and Mr. Murphy get together? Well, Eddie was on the comedy circuit, you know, in New York, and we had all seen each other, and then after we did Hollywood Shuffle, Eddie called and wanted to, because he had heard about the movie, and he said, oh, Broadway. Everybody taught my Hollywood Shuffle, man, you know, and we weren't in that many theaters, so you couldn't really see it, and it wasn't like DVDs or anything, you know. So then I said, man, I'll set up a screening for you, but I had also written a scene in there where we talk about being an Eddie Murphy type, and so then, you know, and then Kenan was like, because Kenan didn't want to put the scene in there, and I was like, Kenan, you know, it's funny, man, they want us to be like Eddie Murphy, and he's like, Rob don't put that in there, and I put it in there. And then Eddie called, and I wanted to be the movie, and so we were like, oh, my God, I made a mistake. And so we have the screening for Eddie, and he loves the movie, and he loves the scene.

And then as he's walking out of the screening, he says, hey, I'm going to do this movie, stand up concert film, it's going to be called Raw. You want to direct it, and I said, yeah, and he goes, it's yours then. And that's how I got raw. When you sit down to do a project, what are some of the elements that you want to include, because it seems that from my vantage point, thus far, the movies that you've made, even the television programs are somewhat family-friendly. Well, you know, here's the thing, I just gravitate to what I want to create, and sometimes people will send me a script, or there's an idea that I have. So when I think in terms of the five heartbeats, for example, I wanted to do a movie about five guys, total different guys, and how they become a family, making music. And so that's how that came about.

Meteor Man, I wanted to, you know, be the first African-American superhero, and I wanted it to be funny, and I wanted to make it for kids. So holiday heart, which is a film that I directed, I think, you know, it's a theme, you know, of non-traditional family. But I think anytime, you know, I create stuff, even the parenthood, that I just really wanted to help raise a generation of kids, because I know they're going to be sitting in front of the TV. So how do I give them, you know, basic lessons on morals and values, and that's why I created that show. Tell us about the Robert Townsend Foundation. My foundation, I have always been committed to filmmakers and helping artists of color. And so over the years, I've done master classes around the country, and I've mentored a lot of different filmmakers. And so it's just my way of giving back. I was going to ask you, you mentioned it in your other answer. Have you put your finger on wider five heartbeats every time it comes on?

It's a major viewing event, and it lasted, you know, 20 plus years. You know, I think the five heartbeats resonates with people because of the different themes. You know, I think one, it's about forgiveness, at the end of the day, and you know, you have five guys, you have a fallen out, you have a roller coaster ride of racks to riches and all of that. But at the end of the day, they are still family, and they forgive each other, and they work it out. And I think everybody in life goes through ups and downs, and it's like, how do you handle it? And I think at the end of the five heartbeats, and I don't know if you've seen the documentary making the five heartbeats, which is, you know, the journey behind the film, but it's kind of like that theme of forgiveness is the overriding thing. Can you tell us about the gentleman Jack Will, the real project, are you working with that still?

Yes, I am. As a matter of fact, on July 10th, at the will-turned theater in Los Angeles, you know, a gentleman Jack has been doing something really interesting. They have been doing all of the screenings of short films, as well as discussions with filmmakers. So on July 10th, at the will-turn, they're going to show a few films from up-and-coming filmmakers, and then they're going to have a discussion with me, and I'll be talking about how I make my movies, why I pick the certain scripts, how I work, and just, you know, my overall vision as an artist. Tell us about Carmen. Carmen, the hip hop era. It was the first hip hop opera. It was Beyoncé's first time acting, so, you know, I was her first director. You have most deaf in it. You have Bow Wow. You have Germaine Dupree. You have Mackay Fiefer.

So it had an all-star cast, and it was a hip hop opera. I mean, it was based on the opera Carmen, but it had never, you know, no one had ever seen a movie where it was wrapping all the way through, and it became one of the highest-rated movies for MTV that's who produced it, but I had the best time working on it, and it just came out. It's on Netflix this month, but I'm so proud to work on that film. You understand? Tell us about the T unit. Ha, ha, ha, ha. The T unit, that's my daughter's and my son, you know, behind the scenes. They're always working with me. That's my daughter's sky, my daughter's Sierra, my daughter Alexia, my son Isaiah. And so, you know, they started when they were really young, working with me as babies. And so now, you know, when I work on a project, like I just shot a presentation for a new project and my kids were, you know, involved in the casting and working with me to identify new

talent, new artists. So the T unit, those are my babies. Did they just naturally gravitate to the industry, or did you try to coast them alone? You know what, they naturally gravitated. Well, see, growing up in Hollywood, you know, they, you know, they've walked many red carpets with me, vented premieres and all that stuff, and then at a certain point they go, I want them talking to me, not just talking to you, so they're always vying for that attention, so I get it. And the last four decades, obviously, Hollywood was a different animal when you first came there. Has it changed that much? I would say it has changed, you know, I mean, there's a lot more images of people of color. And there's a lot of new voices that have emerged. So, you know, when I started, it was just basically me and Spike. And then, you know, Keenan started to make, you know, movies and then John Singleton appeared.

So, you know, now, there's a whole new crop of filmmakers that are, you know, aggressive and taking chances, and so it is a different Hollywood now. I got two more questions. One question is, are we ever going to see a dramatic television program? The last one I can remember is Lazarus Syndrome with Luke Gossip, most of the African-Americans on television there, probably in a comedy or a situation, comedy situation. Well, I mean, when you look at how to get away with murder or scandal, I mean, those are characters in a dramatic situation when you look at the shy, that's a dramatic power. So there are dramas, you know what I mean? So I just know from my side, you know, the new ideas that I have in my head, they're all so different. And so I'm always going to try something new. But I think right now there's a lot more images than we've had before. Did you ever get a chance to keep the Homes Tooth Hat you had on the Five Harbites?

Say that again? That Homes Tooth Hat that you wore in the Five Harbites. Did you keep that or you went back to wardrobe? I kept it, but what happened was I had a building that was my studio in Hollywood, and when the earthquake hit, I lost everything in the earthquake. And so, yes, all my props and all my stuff was in my building, in my studio. And it was like a 16,000 square foot building. But when the aftershocks came, you know, you know, people were like, we could go in here and get it. I was like, no, no, I want a body die trying to get my hat, no, no, so a lot of my stuff got lost in the earthquake. What do you see yourself five, ten years from now, Mr. Townsend? You know, at five to ten years from now, I just want to continue to create. You know, I love, you know, making, you know, movies and television shows. Next month, I go down to Atlanta, I'm shooting Black Lightning, so I've been directing that

and acting on that. And then American Soul for BET, I directed a few episodes of that, so I may be going to that. I've been working on a one-man show about my life, so it's just a lot, I'm just being an artist, so for the next years, I just want to continue to create and just do what I do. Now, American Soul was the story of Don Cornelius and Soul Train? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So we did the first season, I directed two episodes and people really seemed to love the show. And so now there's a new season, and so, you know, they're putting the schedule together now. And so I'll see if I'm going to come back for that. Robert Townsend, comedian, actor, film director, producer, writer, and former cable network programming CEO. If you have questions, comments, or suggestions asked in future in Black America programs, email us at inblackamerica.com at kuch.org. Also let us know what radio station you heard us over.

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