Inflection Point with Lauren Schiller; #46; Reshma Saujani of "Girls Who Code" and Jen Harris, co-author of "War By Other Means"

welcome to an inflection point conversations with women changing the status quo i learned today an inflection point what happens when nurses and goes to washington i think women often come to washington where and why they're still so few women voters and proverb john harris co author of war by other means and rush the founder of girls because that's the day an inflection point at and one of the tv shows i've been loving this year is silicon valley it takes every stereotype of the tech culture and makes unrelenting cringe inducing fun of it if you watch the show you'll notice that it's a bro culture of programming

feels pretty accurate only about a quarter of computer professionals are women and that's actually down from nineteen ninety when i was at thirty six percent girls who code is a nonprofit organization whose mission is to change all that by closing the gender gap in computer science founded in twenty twelve by russian side johnny the program is on track to educate more than forty thousand girls in all fifty states this year her go one million women in computer science by twenty twenty and will lead them in less than ten years the united states will have one point seven million jobs for engineers and competing professionals without girls we will literally not have enough qualified people to fill these jobs work in russia i want to start with a definition of what it means to code why would i want to do now why is it important to have more

female coders yeah i mean i believe that coating and that's where her century of libya because i like reading writing and when you have women who are half of the field biting college right half of the labor force when earth and most of these jobs you know like for example thirty one percent confident family in computer science and they pay a pretty good value by a great valley health we'll have women as it starts with economic prospective were moving out and i think a lot of these jobs are innovative it they're falling apart and for today and tomorrow when eric cantor r climate change or they're doing next generation company for value of social media like instagram or twitter or facebook if you'll have women of part of its growth which simply more missing out do you think that girls code defend gains are solved different problems and boys don't like her studies show that seventy four percent of

girls wanna pick a profession that about changing the world so why do you think the girls are thinking about their community and their world and how to make it better i mean your mom for beef or their brothers the fact that they or they were bullied in school or they want to have the home of a person and they want to keep the math and figured i do think that intuitively we are problem solvers and work to new york and were changing asian and throw think that morphine as women get more technical skill or you could go for five problem what are some examples of what girls in your program have used technology today everything from my favorite now one of our first course she was fifteen and she built an algorithm to help detect whether i can share is a nine or malignant our we had a girl chats and i think in two programs ago and built an app called wacky were on to help people in her community who didn't have access to iraq and that ethic he tutors to learn the key word that we had to

grow so vain and you build a game called camp i had to fight against the magician taboo for period right and to many girls across the world will drop out of school when they could get their character we don't talk about it so they built a really fun game called tampon want to bring attention raising awareness to this issue this is actually available in the app store now forget democrats are you tracking the girls who graduate from your programs to see if they're continuing with their project or going into an engineering a competing field yeah i mean look you may think part of the problem from an education perspective it's just one out of ten american school offers computer science and only twenty five thousand kids typically fifth victim in less than four thousand of them a girl i'm in three states initially being one of all no girls took the fiesta korea

do they showed that if you're thirty eight percent growth will if they don't pay the act when they're in high school or not to take it in college and uganda for building a pipeline much earlier than in college if you want to change the number of women in technology and therefore it's really about how do we measure and evaluate a successful are programs and building the pipeline and so we spend a lot of resources on people who do that and what we have found within our summer programs about ninety percent of the girls are going on to major or a minor in computer science and seventy seven percent more not going to go for politico to refer clients growth of about you know inadvertently if your results are incredible rate and and show you that not too late to change their growth and they want to do with your life and when you show them a computer sciences and what they can do and create and build when they have cutting scale of it really opens up her mind and there were also to what they're going to do with their life so where were actually

tracking them into other kind of opportunity that we feared that you once women get into college when they're interviewed retired about half of them will drop out and so our question of is that if you build a community of growth and we introduce girl to one another they have the point they can lean on each other they can learn to be brave with one another can you reduce fat that attrition rate in politico quote invalid around for you know fifty years and so our members of growth in college are going going going to the growing about three percent of the year clear where we're excited defeat the effect because the code also have a notch of building a pipeline but beatrice right one for him yet as i've read that the number as of today two twenty sixteen at the number of female engineers graduating college in an engineering job is actually going down now cerberus is in ten twenty years ago so do you do you have their time or a

ramp timeline that you figure out where you expect to see an impact from the progress you've got very ambitious goals are a robot when we came up with family back and into the job fair open and what it would take to get parity and show you if you now know all of our culture that we really came to a conclusion on a futon a million girls the twenty twenty we could get gary the number of engineering sam didn't want and it's interesting you know we had mcentee and she did a lot of pressure of them with a candid back and number of men opting into computer science and to battle other and grew dramatically but the number of women say that they now fear that because of social network break that social networking out and you learned about art work and all that that wow i one hundred million dark that you know how or why when i'm in college and that same

impact that the motivation of try and build the company and the family unit eventually re election to condemn motivated and fellow that actually a lot of the work that we're doing is you know how do we get prolific added about coding an infielder they want you to live you can do all the training you can which will increase the number of girls that have the skill set that will increase the likelihood of them actually going into it for college and then for career bitch barriers lake stereotypes of what occurred or look like or x way you know if you mention the movie the social network were just simply cultural fit at work how how will your programs that actually affect those challengers we've really divided and in twenty fifteen to really attack culture and so you know we've been doing a lot of work in india cooperation at nickelodeon on a show that they have the cocky and shakers into that'll be really interesting when we just released the video with blue whale micro period epiphany and long eyelashes and in less than

forty eight hours about a million views in one interesting thing when you look at the contracts in effect and more with cokie and so we're really interesting provocative way to get girls interested in it and to go you say culture and to tell me and watching you i n order to pay attention to what you put on your television shows and new relief and make sure the girls are represented you can't be what you cannot see in you know it's funny in a nation fair and the only ten percent of travelers are women and now that number at over fifty percent and when i think about why i wouldn't fire to be an attorney it was because i would be a thirteen fourteen and i thought kelly mcgillis on the key is the chief and i touch you with often and the impact of la law and grey's anatomy and kelly mcgillis for you in even nineties and into that you're constantly inundated with the fire you know beautiful interesting women who are doctors lawyers and little growth that the army colonel

you know families you have your clients an inventive and they are right and we're going to hear still come valley and on hbo today and you have this image of a program or wearing a heavy fighting in a basement somewhere he hadn't showered in the chicken in apple and low growth and india right now enjoy an olympian i don't wanna be friends with right and so they're opting out that they don't see themselves in the reflection of the vote in elko has not been worth of the media incidentally me mention that these women are are beautiful and smart and you doing his career is that girls can now consider because they're seeing them this question isn't necessarily and you know the wheel house of girls who code that what a programmer a looks like you know does she have to be beautiful should you issue one freddie mac the point but we've definitely prevented what a programmer what a programmer looked like and famine and he about social right and he if nothing of a collaborative job and insulting finish something

cool i mean any girl for that in the reality of it is that in america tween girls decide what's cool and what's not poor and decided that coding is not cool enough and that they want to do and so we do have to make it cool would you have to make it interesting what do you think boys and men should feel threatened by this potential onslaught of cutting women you know i think i'm a week alone in the audience that there my you know they're copying that idea of really trying to see them later egyptian thing for them re fi generation of men like i have them have been injured in computer science he found a lawyer and you can put up with that you know they're not going to put up with the fact that their daughter can be whatever she wanted to be and i think that they want a more inclusive world for her to know well it's interesting that your ear thinking about a million girls cutting by twenty twenty to get to

parody in the workplace it's not like you're trying to two hundred percent women voters now replace gary we're talking with russia message on a the founder of girls who code we'll be back right after this jeannine welcome back to inflection point conversations of women changing the status quo i'm lauren shuler my guest is russian i said johnny the founder of girls who code and i was about the time you ran for congress so in twenty

ten the odds were against you you decided to run anyway why is that a new heart or la i could shake every and immediately about aaron like convince the world that they should vote for me cry sometimes you don't know it and it was a really common grave moment for me we're here for salon in my life my career i was doing everything right i went to law school because i felt like that would help me open dollars you know work in finance because the bartender joy and then i on the party or for a law from italy's choices based on what advice did it further option it and just you know built by reverend i enjoy that i was this rebel you know i was it was very clear to me if you know enough of march twelfth like i always wonder you put a colorful social service and i was so off you know the cherry tree end i took a bold that john i ran for congress in a democratic primary

against an eating your income that you know it would have to make that immigrant parents who can tell me how to build a campaign money would be doing on television no way nobody my world and my life could direct me and we all kind of eager to now and that feeling of just kind of figuring things out and i don't think that having such a colossal mosque at age thirty three with really freeing and it freed me up to take other if america and you know i've heard of an organization called growth approach was a much colder kind of creepy like oh i didn't come out of an audience that they like three four five thousand people and i may be shaking with fear they're going out with an intricate question unlike you can give it right back to turkey you know right for congress again it was just living right now and moving the beginning felt humiliated by the best ever happened me actually you mentioned your parents were de turin you i was this completely the opposite of what i wanted for you will was

their mindset about about it somewhere from uganda today kenya in the image of the patriots refugees in uganda in africa and then they got expelled and they did that all the indians got it about the night of the retreat by the dictator ed mean and so for them they weren't we believe that american dream may like you come here you educate your children to get really high paying job they're now going to market and again options are open for them and so for them i was doing that i was working in a lot of working out the word line in there with you know making making one way that they have never seen in there all right fed look i'm running for office i think he had like one word finally captain finger at an event that we think our family for such activities and five and down in a great family you feel that way if you have evil enough of life and in your life and

so they were like you know they really support what having a father israeli for preventing another solution didn't fully understand you know the three to it annie and putting myself out there and enough on a number he did we become a fiction much of what an olive knife to me and pay me like you got a computer in internet at home just a refined version of band don't matter as is said yeah that like quirk an event known as head of an indian family don't bring attention to your spouse rate and a preacher had done and you work hard and here i wired putting a cop out they were very unusual for them on admitting that they've had to get used to well when when it didn't work out and when you didn't you didn't win the seat in congress you learned a lot along the way it sounds like and in terms of what was happening in schools because you're spending a lot of time getting to your constituencies there was that a motivation to

start life in iran in twenty ten and the tech candidate i was the first candidate for you mean just you know i didn't know if i could shake and meet and argue i mean a tweet at like you know every voter and that we were using social event people want a foreign anything protecting in and the nation builder talking about innovation because at that time you achieve everything a resurgent attacks hugh moore start out more companies and follow that happening over the industry in an unquestioned again for granted parole and because it was in my professional career that you understand it and probably puts it like a lawyer and a research question and really for looking in and think what happened when ny their decline weather service if they're out there for them and the programs are out there and so far across the code that are awake you build from a program that was in school or

pay twenty growth of apple intel you know you try to build a fellowship program twenty the number you know and we will put them in companies because maybe the bean company who inspired garth if you would do in your you know your nation are working and you know it worked and you know we took the man on which it's built it and killed an entire growing after school to really try to meet the demand that we're seeing in tunisia we didn't have a federal program in even get the tech companies in this question are they on board oh full fledged tigers you know i would feel like you've got a good night we're a nonprofit charity you were trying to fall a bit of problem for them and were building the pipeline for than that i you know we have over a hundred reporters were running family and immersion programs hundred and worship i at this point how events of tech employees you know volunteer and family to perform for growth club for him farm programs and for than inflate you know

microsoft ibm but you know at and t clear enough if book they've been with her for a couple years and they've doubled their tripled the program for the whole thing about effectively the national benefit you know in detention during a pattern of young america all gone to hire interns and for complete play for attention of women with a huge issue for many leave company of and so what better way to show your commitment and to have a political program and fight and having your employees' activity and mentorship and josh at the time you've got a very popular ted talk on how we raise our girls to be perfect and we raise our boys to be brave how does that play into gender equality or inequality in the coaching world another leads ultimately to getting jobs at these tech companies yeah i mean like i think you actually ran for congress there were book of parrot carrot fey and really looking at you when i'm off my rave like nobody called me the next day and factory jobs might be i mean how do you figure it out and i realized that if

that happened when all the time you know when they are and don't really know the book and i think you know what do we and women but we need to re to really get out of the tipperary to embrace failure to know where the likeability to build a figurehead and you can tell what kind of an extension of really a lot of the idea that started my first book but then offer expand on what i learned that clothes code and when i find that you know coding for many people feel that the ultimate color and it's really hard to be a scene you think you are when you write code the whole thing of the town there are a coating of about doing over and over no again getting around getting on getting on and boom the dish authentic on how to get it right so when i found the first week of that you know growth were afraid you know to try and you know every teacher would say the famed forty which is and what they were teaching girls occurred in the first week and a few of the teacher over and she'd say i have no coat

right and the teacher would look at her screen and she'd feel blank checks medicare and if she thought that wow if you just spent about twenty minutes of staring at the screen and the one that you keep your craft undo a few times she saw that her student wrote code and then deleted that fell instead of showing the progress that she needed she rather show nothing are perfection and inequality are right away to unfortunately graden grove and unfortunately project i feel like it's a crock and everything by a quiet when i'm meeting and why element and then a prayer while i'm afraid for a while and you know what we've seen with women is that need and gravity towards the things that we think that at least a way from the things that we think are bad black man are constantly kicking with an intermission and they are awarded for delegate geek out of calibrate a funny feeling and i think is not true for women and so my whole

thing is like how do we get girls and women to be comfortable with imperfection at all ages many of whatever we forget that if you're fifty years old and he would do anything they knew retiring will go to do anything about it you for me a plate of all time and why what method can do part of bel canto quite well if i'm an undercover dea twenty one and do it what do you think it makes for a good coach learning you mentioned at the beginning of this conversation the village to be it should be something that's taught like reading and writing and reading writing arithmetic grade so with coding doesn't take a special skill to have now than anyone can learn it so i think anyone can make it you know a lot of cutting edge competition thinking of logical thinking of how to find the problem you have to get out of their mouth to get a country where the great coders made because we're thinking well educated to give up half of them and the heavy far from and how do you talk your way

through a solution and that a lot of a coding and to feel like you know it's not even that it's about being comfortable right because technology can be a part of everything we can again to consider perfection they were not comfortable with a topic or testing if they have a great business idea never given by the atlanta technical component free theater company be cared for afraid to really converse engineers because we think that they're going to have some knowledge with human being evil to know enough that you could talk with the technical person what about initiating change we over and over if it hadn't come to be a certain moment time when i was a little bit like you know i know i've been through so much and have been building create and gone through

the experience and it's very curious like building it overnight our campaign telethon to do if it had if it had it like great just try it russia thank you so much for that and thank you so much for joining me today that was rush mr johnny the founder of girls who code coming up after the break we'll talk with a foreign policy expert jennifer harris about her book war by other means geo economics and state craft all

right i learned shiller have you ever seen the bumper sticker that reads it will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the air force has held a bake sale to bab amr since that sticker was created in nineteen seventy nine not only has spending on education dropped us funding for science and are indeed is at its lowest levels in forty years yet pentagon and related budgets continue to grow and we'll account for more than half of all federal discretionary spending joanne harris is an economist and senior fellow at the council on foreign relations and was an advisor to hillary clinton during her tenure at the state department she's co authored a book called war by other means geo economics and state craft proposing new prescriptions for how the government spends are many welcome to prevent an ink is whether geo economics also usually only heard about geopolitics right the struggle for space in power by state

usually reaching for military force to work the role of the world your economics is the same concept of the way in which states are pursuing their own ends but i will by reaching for economic instruments rather than that it was an example of hostages are using to economics now so this could include everything from trade investments to monetary policy to foreign assistance both military and economic assistance team and actually aspects of the cyber domain one one caller fault story i heard from a veteran state department on the cyber peace was speed and sony hack where north korea it seems to be going to really retaliate against a movie that they did not lie about their dear leader and not so much by saber rattling an additional ways but through attacking our court system i would never thought of that as a jew i cannot live so because they're in basically demonstrating that they can get into our systems what it

sees anything that is using an economic conduit to make a geo political point so when china allows filipino bananas to rot on it stocks to the vents its displeasure are no us maritime policies in the south and east china sea that would be an example of exactly what i'm talking about or when china does the same with japan and anbar growing rare earth exports to japan over the same sorts of maritime tensions insisted that way which countries are increasingly looking to the purse whether that's investment strayed monetary policy or two work around the world while you carl is easier to ninety economics a war by other means why why does that in a context of the war what it is it's mostly just a way of saying that countries have a limited set of options to induce other countries to do their bidding the world often it's

asking nicely through the diplomatic channels kay walls are always and sets out most of the bread and butter of the state department of course there is military options and therefore search didn't drive the threat of force and use of force on by its best says you know a whole other settles into a broad spectrum economic tools that we could use if we wanted to win and often the way that the us tend to look at these things and it's very comfortable all looking at than he's rethinking their seventies a two dimensional access services in the short term more transactional quid pro quo of stuff and one that one sided with versus the longer term play as on another and then get access would be gangs are more for the steaks to carrots read things a mark or said to its analyzing us is there a couple thinking of using it now make tools in the foreign policy contacts when these are longer term place and then they feel more like carrots than sticks and given the nature of privacy base and running we need to begin thinking throw the

rest to know what happens on an axis you didn't use of more core service and somewhat less intelligent or so none of the examples that you listed weren't done by the united states so tell us where the us stands in terms of using to economics as its radium you actually once were quite good at that's the first two hundred years of our history actually we reached reflexive leave for an economic tolls of exactly that they can set and i'm talking about and we're quite clear eyed about that fact but something along the way is unchanged and so part of the work of this book was really trying to tell a story about when things change and why they changed and for you to go back to the very beginning of our country's founding and the very rich you boys have agreement between hamilton and thomas jefferson angry and much that they did steve the basic value of commerce and trade as a weapon and that's not a proposition that is likely to find much favor in the halls of the treasury department today louisiana purchase

jet percent obviously like a big deal but that when you read his writings he's quite clear that his foremost motivation was all it was an effort to keep the french from getting a foothold on the american continent that could set pretty tired and the american military just fresh off if it were for the parents into a confrontation with a police troops leave almost certainly win win and so almost by necessity and through lack of other options and the us wise very quick to reach for its trade investments sanctions of various kinds to keep itself suspend off a lot of the predatory european powers of the day and i see this in world war one are innovating new sanctions as soon as we got into over one that went above and beyond what the prius were even come to west la you see it but high watermark rate is that the mode where two inmates were the

aftermath of war to the marshall plan have land lease was i think in today's dollars some six hundred and sixty billion dollars worth of loans we were giving to our allies to kiss or fight that war and are often the terms that we want that sells more aggressive thirty than anything i think washington would be comparable contemplating today we're unilaterally exercise control over british gold reserves out of our british x for its images a cannot see this getting sitting well with that you know but it's a new departure the washington so so what was the turning point i think was around vietnam did for a few different reasons is almost over determined has certainly had a cold we're turning higher ends so it was perhaps inevitable that those two are well versed in war fighting it when they come into the driver seat of his farmhouse a certain part of his story that day it was also the first generation of economic insecurity the country has experienced since the great

depression it was no longer so clear that we fell culpable trading away economic interests for reform policy agenda at the speed and the assault on sat out the multi national corporation complete with the latino roots that they put out in washington and that you do begin to see that's a large corporations changing the way in which congress thinks about trade in particular as a foreign policy instrument you can begin to predicate knew the truth at liberalization trade routes kennedy wanted to start another trade round in that nineteen sixty three in congress only allows that on the condition that kennedy's administration paul their competence and trade out of the state department and the kids aren't bureaucratic entity so as to shield it from just going to your political desires of the day and he did finally swayed one piece of this that has lost is that adding the role of historical memory and stories that we as americans tell ourselves about why say we we

try and indeed called war ii with the raid in ponte throw the way to its morality gets wrapped up in the camper wasn't strictly makes for a story that it could not have been otherwise it's almost elijah called me was he was through the inherent rightness correctness of our ideas in our system novelist kissinger and his savvy tactician and backed are already enemies distances and two military spending and exhausts but what the soviets were capable of doing that that it wasn't honest with practicing that when authorities just became your correctness of our eight years making his back that gives rise to a sense in which these ideas are to be kept beyond about the aroma of practical politics anything he was attacked issuing iodine is it seventy three then there's history of humans some even grander way it does seem like that their but for certain personalities things could've gone differently and most of it

was to be faced well it also seems like i mean just to still isn't in a symbol of terms it seems like the rise of corporate influence and the rise of military strength seem to be converging into you know don't put our business is a risk with your politics demand than that let's use night before money because that is in charge that's my that's my feet on the ground are really what you just told me you had at one reading of current events in eastern europe and russia is that did very much to concede that there was evidence neoliberal straight jacket and play that mattered abbott it weighs more on the americans more honest than it was on russian it was precisely because odds are multinational corporate interests that we would never allow for any meaningful sanctions to be leveled against a country is as large and systemically important to the global economy as russia and obviously he wagered incorrectly but it was not so clear for a long time given that didn't fit the tenor added

some of this ancient states and i was privy to well let's let's talk about numbers for a minute so you mentioned an example and in today's dollars six hundred sixty billion dollars in loans used a figure in the book of seven hundred and thirteen million dollars which has some really big significance consider to tell us about that and then how those two things contrast with each other sura as servants or seven hundred and thirty nine dollars is monday through wednesday in afghanistan so every time we at the state department would go up for her creation and i knew asking for resources to make art one quote pivot to asia meaningful war in the face of the arab spring back in the first half of two thousand eleven when it comes from a higher for how that could turn out than they are today arun it was a lot of interest in securing the resources that would allow for more effective us policy and this was of course in the middle of some pretty nasty budget wars going on in washington

but yet no one was really questioning up until the sequester and even with the sequester that didn't see the magnitude of the military budgets that we have on the ground in some of these features are we have military presence is still in many many fold above what we're trying to ask for even a comparable contemplating a nun these civilian foreign policy side in current higher see a portfolio today ukraine is still less than half of the seven hundred billion dollars less than half of monday through wednesday of afghanistan or putting in to ukraine if ukraine is where we're going to answer the question of whether china and russia other countries can redraw boundaries i forced it would seem that that we need to rethink and even on the domestic front here in the united states the amount of money that spent on our civilians is a tiny fraction of the amount that is spent monday through wednesday in afghanistan is that part of your when it was that

her year let's rethink this for years and is certainly an apartment motivation ratings but there's a lot of costs and in terms of treasure in troop levels human sacrifice associated with our overreliance on military force and that the surge we've seen in the last eighteen years since nine eleven but too often because of the nature of washington expertise as silent or you are either domestic policy personal us foreign policy person and the kinds of songs that you feel an hour will diverge wildly based on this the social question of which conversation you're a part of and it was only to begin just take a step back after leaving government and realizing how small some of the psalms that we were asking for hints at the early childhood education or physically discretionary spending levels just getting back to the days of reagan would be frankly a huge victory for a lot of our discretionary spending and when you put those sorts of things against our military budgets it just seemed

like a no brainer we're talking with foreign policy expert an economist jennifer harris will continue our conversation right after this harris this is a certain point i learned sure we're talking with foreign policy expert jennifer harris she co authored the book war by other means deal economics and state craft how is the book and received to say you know i had so that i don't get any secret that my politics are at the

summit on the west side of things and as i've written this with a echo out there who is that republicans are in the sees ends foreign policy matter and as having served in any republican white house and kissinger acolyte an ad citing unnamed the way in which it seems to be good news is visit the tension receptionist on his ban on the right i think you know and i think in some ways it's a testament to how tired everybody is out with an oval militarize foreign policy and there's intense and it's not any israeli political message that we're selling but given that we are coming as servants of a bipartisan to call for increased public investment in things like in infrastructure and basic guarantee and to argue against an overreliance on its military force in some ways we need to level a pretty blunt critique against desert and thinking knew a brawl these are all things that the left had an arrest

or aging and when we're another for a long time to kind of wrap it with an aide foreign policy rationale ants you put a bipartisan stamp by you i would've hoped would the coaching well i'm more attention on on the left and it seemed to be some shifts over are about well is a cost there he advised reagan you'd need eu worked in the air against a different rate so how did you come to meet an awfully work on this block as i am a lot of time in my hands which can be dangerous in between stints in the state department and i had that come across an article on that yesterday because of the financial crisis i had written something on the same topic in the author's name was happening to his email and without actually doing at google stocking which i can't imagine myself doing today israel just as sharply know about all the ways in which i am at that's his analysis so i was was falling short and anyone who knows abu atta would not be surprising he responded really really well to that and said what stories where the conversation and

from there david began a unit now seventy eight year effort to end said the fact of a book since came only after several conversations about it was really was forgetting what had once again denied the real art in american statecraft and bob's background was much more green strategy and mine looks much more narrowly tied to that and the economic elements of our foreign policy and so it made for a good caring and now it all there is that research out there that shows that it's a bad choice for having an athlete now economists career two co author of the were you aware of that research when you enter this very eerie or was that you found that out of you know after the book was printed it and what isn't and real yesterday i think the nea is nothing against barbera in it anytime you are somewhat young woman writing with that morsi's and

man in the same field a bear are you and liabilities that i encounter in my fair share and i mean a lot of this more recent research has come out has eyes that and working my way through this project ascendance the chickasaw the study which was justin wolfers says hughes work i love i just was showing the media's treatment of female candidates in particular and out that he had this great line on that ralph nader who once suggested to jenny allen who was at that time our sitting fed chair or that cheese should consult with her nobel prize winning economist has been on a few things that labor policy which number one that janet yellen added at no slouch an economist herself also has thousands of top notch economists working for anyone of which i'm sure as she could dance haven't then when a conversation with revulsion with that even if she were to talk with her as a mentor he would be the first to admit that he's not a leader and this isn't you're

not all that off the mark for a lot of what you see women in an economics and encountering the ten year rates for young women who are cooperating and with senior economists diverse sharply and on a good way for a young man who are also sings it got there on their way to ten year and it does point to still double standard is no secret that there's any of that done or not done even if they're under threat level i found that women economists are outnumbered three to one and that it gets worse as women rise through the ranks and that women and foreign policy are also a number of an increasingly mentioned janet yellen never quite know madeleine albright all you know tableau exceptions but i'm curious what this dynamic of being outnumbered means for it for you know for how you hold your own in meetings you know and presentations when you are trying to get a point across as this a lot and i do find stats there's a luxury of being unburdened by

sort of commitments and there again this can be generated i think women often come to washington to do something and whereas more men come to be someone and to have this really shows up in the level of passion that they put into arguments none of the women are less often now to just like make friends out the cost of whatever agenda they may be pushing and eighty when you're in an industry whose currency is not value is measured by tangible outcomes we don't have coram quarter earnings statements that can you help you prove your worth to your colleagues in the way that the private sector does it does get tricky that an articulate i think there is a tendency for women to make sure that they have mastered something price over before speaking and ends with nbc this in some of the treatment iran's hillary clinton as a state where a list that she was a good

study she did her homework that tended to be on the ball all the way a lot of people treated her time to go was absolute true she was this was also brilliant and i saw him you heard first hand hurt him rests on whatever india she was in new ways that wentz you well a lot of her any notes that hurts her starter given error and there's just some danger in allowing for women to feel that they have to really master some subject because often because you masters objects you are seen that therefore as an issue area expert i win and inform policy certainly if you're in an industry that to be upwardly mobile means by definition student habit broader and broader portfolios a separate state assistance over the entire world and dies you you get closer to that cabinet level position and you two are expanding out your set of

responsibilities that anytime that we are unfairly pigeonhole young woman as a missionary expert i think we can do a liability to what she called for you how did this become your career what we were so the choices you had to make him are doing getting out well i think it started out just always lugging economics i am good was the sort of kid that would read for fun in baghdad inmates and he died was a new reserves or certainly all of my childhood i he was activated after nine eleven and having lost most of his you did end the attacks on the pentagon and i came from a firsthand sense of the human costs of the overlying on use military force and added so i was motivated to combine those two things i had a sense there're probably wind more on their uniform policies strict

economics i thought i didn't exactly know how that would shake out and the fact that china coming on to the scene both eyes this rising economic power but also this country that was uniquely capable of translating ed's growing gdp in two into a global clout as they did including a test case for me and that's really where i still spend most of my time at all when you were at law school you had to make a choice but the radar or maybe didn't say turn tell us what was happening at that point this does raise or diaries or lawyer adam boyes because i went to law school that doesn't have grapes at where i took little advantage of that policy yale data at landed what was a dream job for me medically any time in my life but certainly and at that time on the secretary's policy planning staff at the state department where it would have been the market portfolio end didn't seem like

moscow is a good reason to say no is a year into an insight morales move down to dc that summer after my first year law school and never fully went back inside for the last couple of years left on amtrak in settling back and forth between washington and he literally got your law degree i did i did i still <unk> a ten year plan to take the bar what does today's jam that you've ever been given about keeping the peace knowing not just ones priorities but what's behind them know what's motivating them to do more even if it's negotiations with numbers stereo talking and asking questions a compounding the next question ready is probably the best way to understand where they're coming from even if it's not necessarily a happy and warm and fuzzy way it's more just to understand the nature of adversary and that is probably the single best thing we could do for a lot of our turkey it's difficult challenges well jan thank you so much for joining me today think

he let those foreign policy expert jennifer harris her book is war by other means geo economics and state craft this that or inflection point for today is their women changing the status quo didn't like to hear from an infection by radio dot org and while you're there and it can be trimmed infection like the purr confined and pam scott his contributions are helping bring on the voices and views of helpful in and thirty years everyone and he can to get infection play radio network inflection point is that you have the support of women unlimited in the women's organization for mentoring education and networking developing leaders to deliver results their market with an unlimited data on the support of the countries from girls leadership and national nonprofit that empowers growth make change their world learned more like girls leadership dot org

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