Inflection Point with Lauren Schiller; #116-01; A Radical Idea to End Poverty--The Stockton Experiment

that right every day we've made a pretty clear only communist country once was crazy idea of security or he was something as fundamental as abolishing slavery i learned show and today an inflection point when so called freeze the idf to alleviate poverty perhaps universal basic income is a way that we're going to reward the care work of winning such that they can self actualize be the people that they want to be devalued in this economy probably a portal where you can i learned seller and there's this inflection point with stories of how women

rise up if she becomes president democratic senator kamel harris wants to get up to six thousand dollars to working families each year as a tax credit entrepreneur injury yang also in the presidential race wants to get a thousand dollars a month to every american over eighteen with no questions asked no strings attached he's calling it the freedom to do that both of these proposals are based on an idea that's been around for awhile basic income or universal basic income in light of the renewed attention it's getting in the twenty twenty presidential race i'm bringing back a story we recently aired about an experiment with basic income that's taking place right now in stockton california in this story we ask could this be what a feminist economy looks like or are nikos this ease

than i've been talking with people who are making radical changes to our sister because the status quo just isn't working for many of us women as far as we can still have a ways to go in on the show were all about women rising at clearly rising and fran well here's one thing even our newly in light and age with a few exceptions for women still take on more of the and he'd leave her like caring for children and doing the housework it's well established by now that women earn less money than men and that women and children are more likely to be in poverty the man it's kind of an american legacy but i remember learning anything about why this is so in my fourth grade history class human thing that's been lost is the fact that added initially when the us has been colonized or subtle you initially was nine he came over and we realized really quickly that there was not going to be any wealth accumulation the society was develop so there's a lot of anxiety that point time over two things you know basically either it didn't have sex with each other

be there to have sex with women who are each year we cannot have either of these things take place that's it would end up happening was back in europe and they were wearing white women who were deemed to be in the police years of male sexuality to the colonies with the promise of land sale pennsylvania mal massachusetts offered winning free land and free meaning taken from those who are already here with the assumption that once they get to the us they will just get married because that's what all women weren't and women showed up and they said we've got our property we're good we're not going to get married at that point i'm sixteen berries we actually rolled into legislation for the first time that women cannot have access to credit which is what you need to accumulate wealth and in your own name on a man signature that was a repeal until nineteen seventy four it was amended again in nineteen seventy six so we talk about diet us history we talk about a moment that working with having him a conversation public conversation or guaranteed income or also reckoning with ideas about gender and we're talking

about a pivotal point where for the first time women had access to credit in a nineteen seventies that esther baker an assistant professor at the university of pennsylvania school of policy and practice an affiliated faculty gender sexuality and women's studies and she spends a lot of time thinking about women and the economy she's just one of the people i've been talking with really about a radical concept called universal basic income just giving people money as one solution to poverty today's episode is going to be a departure from our regular format because we're talking about an idea so baby that one person couldn't possibly take all the credit for it let alone explain poverty is a problem that just isn't going away here in the bay area where i live i see it every day many people struggle to make ends meet and afford basic things like housing and food and while everyone is talking about possible solutions are

not getting anywhere so when i heard about universal basic income or your the eye it seemed so straightforward media little mats but people have many so give them money and now they have money whether it's to pay for the basics are even to dream up a new business some people call you the eye and opportunity equalizer others call it a fairly wrongheaded idea it's certainly a radical departure from the way we think about distributing many in the us today because it doesn't require the recipient to do anything to earn it but does the war at a glance or american economy is doing pretty well and employment has hit a record low the stock market has hit a record high a

new orleans of people are finding work in the so called gig economy and some people even estimated forty percent of people are working day jobs and if you've been watching the news you know that two of the company's driving the gig economy are valued in the billions lift just went public anywhere is going in the same direction that this rosy picture of its finance independent work flexibility is missing the big picture it ignores all the women and men who were working one two three jobs get struggling to make ends meet every single day today a new study grab your attention the middle class is no longer the majority in america in nineteen seventy one sixty one percent were considered low class dallas down to fifty the economic indicators we often track miss the day to day insecurity that people feel how much can i spend on gas right now at the station how much can i spend on food right now at the grocery store

it's a budgeting becomes a real time constant activity so even among people who have fulltime work and show up to work forty hours a week they don't necessarily get the same paycheck every two weeks according to the economic policy institute a top one percenter come approximately twenty two percent of all income in twenty fifteen and to be in the top one percent of the united states in twenty fifteen a family would have to earn at least four hundred and twenty one thousand nine hundred and twenty six dollars before taxes meanwhile the nationwide average income for the rest of the ninety nine percent is thirty thousand one hundred and seven dollars now law unemployment remains well an economy is doing well wages for workers have barely budged the current trends suggest that the country must re examine its workforce policies to address income inequality and when you dig a little different you start to learn that having a job it doesn't mean as much as it used to pay for job security you may even need me more

than one job which means that your cash flow is all over the map not to mention your schedule if we'd have made more difficult for more people to afford it warner lawyer that's natalie foster the economic security projects she's working on this idea of a universal basic income well we are the most ironic for a country that all about progress it's never been so bad for so many people reports are that millennials all over the country are the first generation to have less wealth

and their grandparents stockton is a city in the central valley of california and about an hour and change drive from silicon valley about an hour from the state capital of sacramento just under three hundred thousand people there stockton played a historic role as a key way to the gold rush it's pretty agricultural center in northern california and in several sports including the stopped imports of farm team of the oakland a's last year located in your surprise win in vineyards according to their website and you can buy a home there for under a quarter million dollars if you live in the bay area that somebody all but stopped and is also known for some more dubious honor the foreclosure capital

of america the largest city to seek bankruptcy protection before to try to stockton is once again getting national attention this time for its primaries that is the names one of the top ten most dangerous cities in the nation and as k series rees the one amazing reports the results don't surprise some residents there were in oman although not on real surprise to a lot of little while since i've known as gamma bed since i've been over in this border than they were children to even just play around the area period you can often find stockton on internet top ten list of the most dangerous worst cities to live in and they have nearly doubled the national unemployment rate in fact one in four star tony and lives below the poverty line if anywhere to use a radical change it stocked and

michael tubbs grew up in stockton is the child of a single mom who's african american his dad has been incarcerated since he was born he knows about poverty i was the challenge of a single mother who worked extremely hard to make ends meet it's majored in the sixties were taken care of on wednesday people are still going out mom always told me over work or twice or three times as hard michael listen to his mom and he defied the odds he graduated from high school in stockton got a bachelor's and a master's from stanford and then instead of moving to new york or la or dc he decided to move back to stop them and see if he could do some good in his hometown and he wasn't messing around in fact while he was still at stanford he ran for a spot on the city council in stockton oprah back to city council campaign at this point she'd only back to other people brought obama and cory booker

anyway he won he served for four years on a council where the age of twenty one some of the other council members were at least twice as a and then he ran for mayor and won by a huge margin and in twenty seventeen he became the city's first black mayor and at age twenty six the youngest person in any american city in over a hundred thousand people to hold that office webb info visit to stockton in short is a clear opportunity for namely that happened to me that everyone including yourself england the listeners were living on for maybe the basic things and to me that's a fats claim as housing for all types of people and enough for one arm which media of opera chinese or find really see as you're casting of mercy of the saut pan autumn and eritrea so to me that's so you have all types of people you have middle class people or rich people or import people all living

together om him being harnessed in life so that's kind of vision of stalkers trying to see that everyone busier people are with him samir times was searching for a way to get his citizens out of poverty and to reinvent stalked and where would you even start he reportedly told the staff that crazy ideas are welcome and then also understanding that every game we've made opportunity around the economy in this country were once was crazy ideas worth of security well you recently as fundamental as abolishing slavery i think one of things i valued most about this country is that we don't always get it right but everyone story comes of that we no longer is wrong at some point you realize it actually costs more to be wrong in the long term because the right and sharp he was ready and willing two experimental dish so remember natalie foster of the economic security project he's been

working long and hard on a big idea to address poverty universal basic income guaranteed income that idea i we'd just give people money here i am yeah like earth i'm ready they are like

natalie and michael times first met while they were both working at the white house during the obama administration yeah he really did have a chance to get a stock them he was an intern she was digital director for obama's organizing for america and the democratic national committee that after michael tubbs and become mayor turns and after natalie had founded the economic security project they met again a conference and began to discuss how they might make this big ideas guaranteed income reality so for the very first time a city in the us today is going to go for it to give people money five hundred dollars a month is not enough to live on nobody's gonna quit their day job but it just might make things a wee bit easier

on a day to day basis they're calling it the stockton economic empowerment demonstration or c the first payment when out in february of twenty nineteen two hundred and twenty five families and stop them on a prepaid debit card the refills with five hundred dollars each month for eighteen months the money is unconditional no strings attached no work requirements and last until july of twenty twenty so how they use the money mr childs yeah so yeah so it is or as much as it has been

over stress well i think so no state that you know it's a quiet show that other tensions you know the culture and have that right about that experience but also my wife just to talk about doesn't just a few voices of the stockton residents responding to the question what would be different in your life if you were stressed about money all the time fell on the money is going to be used and in the way that everyone spends money right which has to take care of the rent and groceries an outstanding bills and pain down bad and and saving as we have seen in many other condition on unconditional cash transfer programs that station martin west assistant professor in the

college of social work at the university of tennessee she and her colleague who we heard from earlier in the castro baker from university of pennsylvania or the research team tracking the stockton experiment so who is getting this money well starting has a median household income of about forty six thousand dollars which by the way of fossil way below the state's comedian and can of about sixty one thousand dollars the starting team at one of the protests against to be an inclusive and representative portion of the city's population and they offered money to not the poorest of the poor or the richest of the wrench we did a random sample of individuals and we randomly assigned them to treatment and control so what we ended up with is a symbol that reflects the tremendous diversity of the city of stockton right so young folks that are retired we have a young mothers they're taking care of children on their own we have single guys in college right and just a tremendous amount of diversity there or use their tent

my constituents are lily the world also started shooting the diverse tomorrow to a person ese and an asian from all over the continent from own to cambodia to the philippines or india pakistan and china japan howard thirty five percent latino fathers are white in an about ten percent after american meal a sikh temple in this continent is in south fargo at one point we are more fun kill people in stockton me anywhere outside of philippines armed soldiers have been other people start or town where everyone will tell you salome with our listeners and their families we have doctors and lawyers and have made its workers and a minor workers a new drivers in and created sen dodd many people we have are returning service in three hats trans people we have gay people we we we have everyone here and start and i think that's what makes this product so special because you'll see the

world the country a bit of whatever set makes art to me should largely fled the paintings ever want to see how those policies against their will i'm lauren shuler and you're listening to inflection point stories of how women rise while you're here to subscribe to the fledgling podcast to support our work with a contribution over an inflection point radio dial or coming up after the break not everyone is on board with giving out free money you backed the nineteen eighties you know where they're very intentional global parties ever created the myth of the welfare queen and i'm pulling their weight and working hard and you're getting by on my hard labor he's a man man

pieces this is inflection point i'm lauren shuler today we're looking at universal basic income and guaranteed income and a radical experiment with this very idea that is taking place right now in stockton california here's the mayor of stockton michael talent for me this on basic income means providing they can chew on i promised that if you work hard if you control ruling regime are paid for your bills and even goes beyond discovering the bells so you have three jobs or are one of those millions of good workers or maybe your job is about to be replaced by a robot studies have shown that people who don't have regular work for a decade suffer an average of six and a half years of cognitive decline and relative to people with regular hours that means that if you and i are the same age and

my work hours are inconsistent and you work nine defied every day then my brain is like six and a half years older than yours and not in a good way here's the research team any pastor baker and station martin west and we know from public health is that you can take one two three even four years of chronic stress running time and money and it's not finished up in the body once you hit that five year mark and you know and beyond it starts to show up as a social determine of health and pretty frightening ways particularly for working class women too are we see higher rates of heart disease we see higher rates of chronic conditions that they ought to be experiencing we're in the lifespan and it's happening earlier and earlier the economy shows up under the skin will really interested in looking at here is does tasha have impacts on volatility right and if we invite volatility are people less stressed out it will be the parents and they want to be the partners that they

want to be in the friends that they want to be able to dream about the future in a way that they couldn't before because they were too worried about piecing together their jobs right and do have better health outcomes because they're able to spend a wednesday night like going to the park with their dog rather than that wednesday night going to their second job job see your research is it sounds like it's been you know learned how people are using the many rebels want s holmes tray so but it sounds like you're not actually that interested in how the news many such as how using the many impacts them as humans yes entity and khalid not having to worry about at least a little bit of income right or a lot of income to send five hundred dollars a month how does that free up your opportunity to be you this radical experiment could only happen in a place like stockton with are ready and willing to try something new

in he says this is part of a new wave of urban innovation so if you look at the us conference of mayors most cities trend liberal than most cities translate that is that the basic voting rights to what we're seeing right now across all across the country snuck into that example this is its season are engaging in practices which some people call bottom of federalism whether innovating around radical policy ideas that would not be palpable at the federal level and so mayors are intentional amassing their temperament his statement on his policy platform i'm saying in general as a scientist william ayers hard distancing themselves what's happening in dc by being willing to take a risk and try new things and so it's sort of it's treating these species for you know for innovations it is not necessary that they care so much about the happiest that might be true in some cases yes but somewhere here i think about in terms of sanctuary cities race to secure sanctuary cities are important their vital its anchor of human rights but i have a hard time believing that all those marriages woke up

one day and grow heart and said you know what we really need is to be a sanctuary city now there's a reason why that's taking off it's taking off because that the community because our population base is an urban centers are saying no we don't believe this about immigrants know we don't believe this about people who you're trying to portray and so that creates a policy a political window to try new things to try bigger ideas to take some risks because doing it and the slow measured way we've been doing it thus far has not got the stiff upper right set him in that's kind of muddy way of saying it that it's taking advantage of this opportunity and so when it comes to starting you know i'm asking a broader question of what is it means for a city to reinvent itself out what does it mean for a city that was once known to be in the foreclosure capital of the world to be the place where a radical idea around how we think about the social contract with advocacy the fact that those two things are tightening tested in that same place to the same location risky lending was tested

is also the place where we are testing guaranteed income you're from the city lev perspective for the first time that states the group who is being most affected by the problems of the wealth gap income volatility and job insecurity are those most open to new ideas and experimentation they know there are things to be fixed because they feel those problems every day is millennials like stockton is mayor michael tubbs season thinks this interest in universal basic income is because of a generational shift i'd give odds of credit to millennials they have lots of great ideas and then i think they help jumpstart his new conversation about u b i seen and their own personal lives that work may not work in the same way that it did for my parents my grandparents but also increasingly there's a sense of economic injustice that is very visible right very palpable and i realize even though this is the

first time there's been a city let experiment with guaranteed income in the us it's not a totally new idea in this country southampton seems to me there's a guaranteed annual income and down the minimum income are all people and paul berman is about seems to me that the civil rights movement and now began to all the nih is call me over the weekend we and there's something without believe world war long long way for dealing with economic problems and economic problem for many other poor people use does martin luther king even need an introduction and that's ham in nineteen sixty seven at stanford calling for the introduction of a guaranteed minimum income and this isn't just for progressives and

liberals even the political right proposed a version of that milton friedman advisor to nixon and reagan and a well known advocate for free markets because in nineteen sixty eight with what he called a negative income tax to help relieve wealth inequality the proposal for a negative income tax is a proposal to help poor people by giving money which is what they need rather than as now by requiring them to come before a governmental official detail all their assets in their liabilities and be told that you may spend six dollars on rent why dollars on food and seven and the given and the idea of the negative consequences to treat people who are poor in the same way as we treat people right and here we are in the twenty first century fifty years later and the idea has made a resurgence economist robert raich things wealth should be re circulated researchers estimate that almost half of all us jobs are at risk of being automated in the next two decades now this isn't necessarily bad the

economy we're heading toward could offer millions of people more free time to do what they want and state of what they have to do to make this work will have to figure out some way to restrict the way the money from the relatively few people who do very well in the economy of the eye everything to the rest of us will want to buy the ivory things and presidential candidate and regain his running out what he calls the freedom to that and came to alaska's permanent fund dividend so again i just wanna say it's not a government program and at every dollar goes into the hands of an american citizen it's a true dividend where if you're a company and you said hey were declaring a dividend were giving up his money and shareholders that everyone would say that's great management in this case we the citizens of this country are the owners and if the dividend comes to us that it's not a government program it's simply the shareholders of society i am receiving some of the vast wealth of the society so it's i don't run program it's actually extraordinarily expensive to

administer because if it's true universally don't have key senators are people trying to figure out how much money maker like all that stuff goes away actually a number of more well known presidential candidates have talked about this as well when i have proposed would be for families that make with a hundred thousand dollars a year they will receive a tax credit of up to six thousand dollars that they can collect up to five hundred dollars a month it's a dangerous job that's a good thing that doesn't mean you simply displaced worker program were out on the street to the races and by the way this guaranteed income at universal basic income or what some might call a handout it's already happening if you're a big company or you're already rich as natalie foster the economic security project points out that

we read she asked she rallies you now there is of course not everyone thinks a universal basic income is a good idea we're conditioned to believe that if you aren't making ends meet you just are working hard enough or that trident trail as professor amy castro baker puts a shame and blame

narrative you backed the nineteen eighties you know where there are very intentional political parties are traded that for the welfare queen in which has become really falls is a caricature creative yama clinical trail but those things scary and shipped discourse soon we not only have means tested benefits that are incredibly paternalistic impudent but then on top of that we have shame and blame narratives associated with people who quote unquote don't make it in america the night calling their way to not doing their thing to know that playing by the rules when i am as does israel kind of i'm working hard and you're getting it out on my you know my heart waivers i don't think the fundamental problem is that people don't have enough money i think the fundamental problem is that human beings in some sense or beasts burden and if they're not provided with the place where they can accept social responsibility social and individual responsibility in an online matter they degenerate and die yes there are naysayers like jordan

peterson there that people like natalie foster believe it's the best thing for our country nine health care airlines you went there i am i mean

how are sir this is an inflection point i'm lauren shuler with stories of how women rise today we're looking at one radical idea to end poverty universal basic income and inexperience it's happening right now in stockton california after a break and also a big elvis is towards a more inclusive one fitness economy simply because a law that unpaid labor child rearing and caregiving are primarily by women oftentimes are not compensating for that we're seeing kasell host kind of show that work has dignity and has value in the form of ways between some compensation programs

that intentionally radio dot org does this is inflection point i'm lauren shuler today we're

looking at one radical idea to end poverty universal basic income before the break we heard from natalie foster of the economic security project which partnered up with the city of stockton california to conduct an experiment or right now one hundred and twenty five people are receiving five hundred dollars a month for eighteen months poverty has been an intractable problem since well the beginning of humankind perhaps it's because if you have money it's easier to just talk about it and wring their hands about it and good occasionally to charity to feel we're doing something about it maybe it's because it affects people of color more than white people affect women more than men and single moms more than anyone women didn't even have access to credit until two hundred years after the declaration of independence nineteen seventy six and it took a generation after that for women to begin to accumulate their own wealth and then the great recession hit in two thousand at

waking most of their wealth away this is something the researchers any castro baker and see summer in west know well women have thirty six percent less well today than they did twenty years ago right our very banking system has been set up from the very beginning to lock women and people of color out and those are forms a team at a disadvantage in a minute take a mall tae pronged structural we you know approach to tourists and perhaps universal basic income is a way that we're rewarded the care work of winning such that they can self actualize be the people that they want to be devalued in this economy for all the informal work that they're performing do you have a hypothesis that the outcomes for women are going to be different outcomes from an o we talk about this publicly very often that i mean if we look at prior data

on what is how we would come to a hypothesis we would imagine that there is a bit of a liberation effect and that's perhaps why it's kind of terrifying for people that when women are in power economically they can be empowered in a lot of other ways in their lives so bellinger hypothesis for the postseason or yeah i think we'll see two things in i'm gonna pull back from some hypothesis could imprison updated actually make a hypothesis but based on prior experiments that have been done i would expect to see two things you want people eating abusive relationships our service on the nineteen seventies and then to you the way that people pulled resources in the home you know women are responsible for a lot more bodies than men are frankly in and so i would imagine that we will see a difference in terms of how common reduction that for instance is not our hypotheses and this term as other iain in terms of there are more things on a woman's paycheck than a man's rights a five hundred dollars

is going to both go farther and not go farther depending on the composition of the household here is but the elves is towards a more inclusive more finesse economy politically because allow the unpaid laborer my child rearing and caregiving are primarily but for now women oftentimes are not compensated on four for four that worked so again singing come all sort of kind of show that work has dignity and has value in in the form of ways between sure there were other types of jobs which is a check to some financial compensation so maybe the reason we haven't been able to fix poverty is because we haven't taken the feminist view of it very seriously until now just i cry for korea is because you know you're thinking don't knock until you've tried it we can't know this radical idea is going to work with only a few months since

that sounds crazy and start in third going forward anyway so it's not that they have a southern racist doctrine it's incredible just how much the city has shared in the somerset narrative is taking so long for the woman got started with problems with solutions and that's incredibly nothing so that was the i would say this is more in line with the american tradition of having some social contract or a social safety net that allows people to self actualize you contributing in creating to continue made our country great i asked amy haase you define an economy that includes universal basic income as part of its social structure year didn't and then it really was the most naturally and board in the future but i would say that it has as an anchor to assumptions one hope and to justice right sue oh meaning you and

people have a pervasive anxiety about the fact that they cannot provide for themselves the next generation right sue what guaranteed income offers is a floor that you can't fall beneath and once you do that your you you opened up the possibility to re imagine for yourself what your future may be an alternative pathway is a and then second you know justices and rather than kind of constructing our economy around you know notions of upward mobility for godot work anymore had never work for certain sectors the population of rancor and justices ain't we agree that as human beings people should have the right to have a floor that they can't albany says an anchor of justice said say is how to move forward in the future if you would have those two components and the ad of hope and nattering air and then of course of justice ms natalie foster for

her if whenever we heard an update on the unemployment rate or the stock market we also heard an update on the poverty rate as a measure of how our economy is doing imagine if poverty worth something we turned away from that that we turned to art not just as individuals giving money here and there but as an entire society imagine if we took care of the people who take care of us if we're going to get to a quality we at least need to give every one an equal chance political science professor fiona robinson and her book globalizing care ethics feminist theory and international relations rates that we will not end poverty without a critical feminist ethics of care and that is ethics mostly consciousness of poverty a part of the everyday lives of people who are anything but poor they're privileged people have to give up some of their advantages by fostering

certain economic political and social changes so as we look at who our political leaders are we must look at their priorities other policies increasing the lockout we're decreasing at other companies creating this income volatility views guaranteed income as a reason to pay them less one encourage employers to reduce benefits and job security even further you may wonder how we pay for that's what's going to cost if the whole country went to universal basic income what's going to cost if we don't it's a radical idea if we don't try something nothing will change mayor michael terms of stockton is one leader in one small town in one large state trying to figure it all out

you know last year thank you to all the people on this project she spoke with me including ziggy samaras executive director of the stockton economic empowerment inspiration and first lady of stockton on attacks and links to mubarak's son for sharing her conversations with starving residents a link to her it in the series more than enough about guaranteed income and i would say something really a dot org this is such a year well we were working on this episode we learned about another guaranteed income experiment that the economic security project is involved with the magnolia mother stressed starting in december of twenty eighteen this program provides a thousand dollars a month for one year to

twenty but mothers living in extreme poverty in jackson mississippi in the state yet we hear from a senator as his leading the program through her nonprofit springboard opportunities i don't think we realized that our future is really determined by what we're supposed to do and what we're allowed to bring them out and i knew growing up exactly what i wanted to do when i became an adult i know i want to run a nonprofit and i want to work in the community yes because my grandmother with an activist because my mother and all my aunties or social workers so that was my level of exposure living in poverty if you do not have people feeding anti what your future to be and that's why we have these two generations of the family don't know what i find

and here we meet valerie was unemployed for fifteen years and is now a tv specialist a springboard to opportunities with a play for that we want to use it even the completion of light another twenty fifteen de mayo we talk about there being a lack of leadership in these communities and i don't think it's a lack of leadership i think people are exhausted and i think they're bandwidth is taxed at but if i have my band with breathe app and actually have the ability that the concrete injury know i think from a leadership is this nattily in these communities will be key have to manifest it perhaps he was right now the reality of

it we just look at the number of the majority of the parliament and he said ansel had an inability to let women and army will be great a basic income could have been so many instances giving someone monthly cash would instill a sense of breathing a big issue yet be unconditionally we should trust people to know that you know what it is that they need it mean having a basic income could really happen on communities across this country because local leadership within the show that large here but the limited income are just like you and i they have ashamed <unk> know yeah they want their key is to go to college we were a kid is that what

grandbabies that they want the white picket fence say one opportunity to vacations they want the same thing that we want we're not define him as the piece that are really thinking about getting into their dreams that i have for my son i was there when the same traits that they have we really have that's our inflection point for today on earth a real public theater candor and npr y five star review the podcast no one another great resonant story revealed that or their support or protection of the monthly or one time contribution starring fran mr fletcher played radio dot org

where iv radio and follow me on twitter and instagram at la schiller to find out more about the guests you heard today and to find out for you on your letter inflection chlamydia or an inflection point is produced in partnership with kalw ninety one seven am in pr and three her story editor content manager diesel are we there is that today's story was edited by with me henry loesser her engineer producer is aaron schiller well mayor turns david joseph