KEXP Presents Mind Over Matters; Sustainability Segments: Jon Rynn

this is diane hein your host on the sustainability segment of mind over matters on k yet the seattle ninety point the fm an online at atx feed an orgy my guest this morning is john ran an environmental blogger for grist dot org and creator of manufacturing green prosperity dot com john holds a phd in international relations from the city university of new york and was an adjunct professor of political science at the root college john renne is here today to tell us about his newly published book manufacturing green prosperity the power to rebuild the american middle class welcome john what led you to write your book manufacturing bring prosperity well i've always been very interested in ornate economic growth to take place so it's sort of a frustrated that the whole debate to be nominated by a conservative and so i had the opportunity to work with professor of the normal economy university one of the great economic writers of the post war period and what i didn't want it up with a theory and a framework

for understanding why manufacturing so central to the economy and what happens when a private car in the united states but that the same time they became very concerned about all the ecological crisis in global warming things like the end of the era of oral other ecological disasters and florida put those two ideas together and to argue that we need a long term vision oh how do pour over of both the political and the ovaries the two if things aren't we actually make things easier than we can rebuild the family rebuild the infrastructure of that we have two great thing to believe at the same time though it rebuilt at the heartstrings so it's really an overambitious attempt to try to leave so we can avoid future we should give a brief overview of why you

think manufacturing is key to a healthy society where all really four hundred years main route to our national palace where alexander hamilton talked about for collecting a tremendous achievement for the united states really became a world power and then two of the american century foreign much based on the fact that the us about fifty percent of the al gore market in the most basic part of the many hearts reflective of industrial machinery so it's early do worry well what do you think they cover a strong manufacturing sector with and we know that china has become a very important country and not just because they're going to come through during a fair trade but there's a deeper reason a couple favorites what is that actually trayvon martin

country it's a pretty good run so if you want to actually global i think you have to deal to trade goods for good and her family friend turn to conduct campaign figured out for the us the number of war will not be able to exchange the trigger for exchanging those for growth in iraq the group that economically viable and the most fundamental reason really is the technological growth and innovation is really dependent on the most basic parts of the industrial structure the clinical technologies that when they changed the gray whole new part or a fire you like the computer and the iphone the ipod the storm a partial by the boldness universe racial technology called people have a more familiar with those smokers the bottom of gale at the coalition that if there were a few years ago than they do

with the rather obscure technologies but they've been extremely important and critical to the growth of wealthy both the whole flight so basically if you look at the folkloric very fractured org if you look at the way trade were still awake for to pair of a harsh treatment for several low if you look at how growth actually purchase a curfew we would give them a harsh would you say more about what has happened to the manufacturing sector of the us over time well typically quite a record unlike in the particular what we can know with imported from abroad what we can do with imports from abroad in it only about twenty five percent of the workforce of the manufacturing and the elbow or one percent of the workforce is fracturing and if they go through the economy which about a quarter over with that will refresh your knowing why would prefer an

interesting way oh well from the top one percent or that period of pretty much for the shift manufacturing there worth it feels like the top one percent went from you know about ten percent of the gnp they come to twenty four percent authority basically life and off the wealth generating capacity of faith though at all for your info for them so it's been a really hard situation of course nellie ho over twenty million people who are either unemployed or underemployed in motion that would be employed if we live we work with a lot of mercury were an iq test comes us manufacturing system to decline well who work a few more moment of doma on pickup point for but quote your book mainly fix the fund

andy explain why actually the military industrial complex for both things like it might help the manufacturing sector actually lead to decline to pull the dead from the bronx into effect and that's really a cliff we have to that soviet planned economy in all the inefficient course we are familiar with that will we now have social from foreign oil the pentagon and flow that required that you may be roughly in a factory for looted companies because making prank for the air force points with a really bad habit and north pole over when you try to make the really important but the health of the mother problem yet financial sector have gotten very very and have pushed the main factors to outsource had to move everything abroad oil a whole scale an image search for lower wages mehlman actually discovered that you cannot one thing a

fire crews shut down now is actually losing money still no factory employee alvin operated noma would've gone abroad and then they'll be going to find but they're called for short term profit led to a short term solution which is now turning into a long term capacity to the big hole that we face well in the critical early about your machinery or leave to dominate that we had like fifty percent of the oil production we're no actually quite sure where we're over fifty percent and fifty percent he was a poor country in europe particular culture to have a play to pursue them to pay about twenty percent so we're speaking fairly quickly not irrevocable you we could be careful that girl and of course there's nothing terrible will not be number one and the

manufacturing of lawful flipping over the world percentage and our export in particular we have a huge trade deficit with that we think that we have many more imports and exports and were not able to fill our stuff abroad because for being a complete body germany japan and on the upper end that if they actually pay their workers more than we do on a warrant but china's solar storms we've been the bill and overcome that we really need to help the government feel intervene in an intelligent manner and create a great accomplishment i'm diane warren and my guest is jon moran author of the book manufacturing green prosperity the power to rebuild the american middle class and you're tuned to the sustainability segment of mind over matters and katie explain it point three of them and on the web add k e x p dowd orgy in your view why is a manufacturing sector needed for the existence of a middle

class well basically because you don't have a factory inspector awards that we consider poor considered underdeveloped the country that our coverage or we called believe that your country that's because if you don't have a very fractured fact a really odious the quick to sell your mineral or your fourth something like that so americans think they could publish their worth of every part of the health service or product of an f and forth over what you do with the effective good fake heroic total of twenty fourteen so i've actually united states could turn warren to latin america basically where you have an overly complicated upper cloth and you have no involvement carol hull out of manufacturing sector you don't really have anything to choose what the rest of the world in an issue of the worldwide

no attempt to think with you anymore and so there's really no place for the middle class or are gone though what i know i have a book of that worry about its program to rebuild the factory factor that that could create tens of knowing for good middle class jobs the country jobs that are disappearing now how could a new manufacturing sector contribute to solving issues such as climate change and building a more sustainable world well one advantage of doing it that we would know that we were actually following the climate change problem one of the fault with the captain training for the fact that we don't really know how they work but if you build a high speed train that work across the country we know that we could eliminate a large percentage of our need for oil if you built a width of them across the country in an interesting went with the men you played the wind farm though that they're going to wind blowing from where they could provide electricity

anytime you know you could replace the coal plant but if we work to make buildings energy self reliant by putting solar panel farmer more from the cold ground below the group record eating weed killer retrofitting then we can eliminate all for a large percentage of the energy and the natural gas that we need for building would fall both together we should just about forcibly on the mic to you so awful you'll get about fifty percent of that clarity of greenhouse gases globally and that has a couple other major areas that need to be changed in order really to get rid of triumph we have to have a role in their urban structure for the seattle portland other states are trying to encourage triumphant because the density of seattle port with another city allows you to take advantage of transit so you have to encourage

the building up of the health centers even before the deaf education of urban areas and then the other major thing we have to do actually transform into cultural fit into the wearable local organic pay for them for their war not destroying the environment the way they are now ended also with a greenhouse gases and that vote we actually built all of the fifth of the local lore of the building oriental of the national ones we cherish where you shoot four euro carbon emissions the critical which you say more about the development of electric trains shirl high speed rail which portrayed the really go about two hundred miles an hour are sort of really all the rage a lot of the world although most of the world to spread out in the united states europe and japan are developing world pj voigt you would basically replace airplane here we drove the five other world war what speed

rail between you're in chicago you could get there in five hours and even across country you know when they significantly longer for half their playbook for only between me and flight routes that those are all powered by electricity also to convert the freight rail fifth of torture for the freight rail to be like seven times more energy efficient than truck big long haul truck and so they'll be no way to ethically for energy of the wave and light rail also use electricity and flow they could be used to share with electric cars with so and people are traditional but i don't know that electric cars will ever be able to go three hundred miles in a lot whenever you want fifty miles an hour i think always be somewhat short range of somewhat well which will be fine if

we have to fight that health centers in the family facility in for a drive around town drive your local train station that you're pickled tribute over a comparable poll but with a colorful you know very large people thinking but we've interviewed sure george or two into a car or a home the bourbon structural do people want to have the old people want to we can come back a walkable town in your book you speak about the need for government to help promote a robust manufacturing sector why is government needed well the market is remarkably unable to hand over its problems but that the name of the government into everything the government should do what it does in the markets do it but the market is particularly bad at dealing with long term the wide problems such as climate change or

such as transforming transportation of them for instance in the nineteen fifties the us government would dwight d eisenhower behind and the republican problem started the construction of the interstate highway from the truth both hoping that the prior larger point that we were unable to do so they will play well if you wanted to fund and with unable to come up with a couple to do it was private firms feel the interstate system and private firms could build an interesting change that the mortgages they know when fifteen but for society and for roy or in the garbage further proof that you've been immunized they unfairly nation and europe any country that have become a wealthy the government has encouraged to manufacturing firm who

were the market but maybe a little better it would create an education that it would harm compel the governor feet it would provide market for the firm who would say that war in the public interest they will give them a win for them we provide a huge market for private firms to be able to lift themselves up and become world plus various fractures a little kind of proven way that the government can help the private sector i know if you're a college that are within the socialist opiate but you know calvin coolidge for the legislation to build the hoover dam in the world all the western for the third floor and the bottle which it or conservative politicians when the government has created a water through the bible or so different view of four conservative cafe that the government can't fill all that they've employed

for centuries and menorah for paul will have to do it for more i'm diane warren and my guest is jon moran author of the book manufacturing green prosperity the power to rebuild the american middle class and you're tuned to the sustainability segment of mind over matters and katie explain it point three of them and on the web add k e x p nut allergy what steps would you recommend for our current government to take to help promote the manufacturing of applause well it would be difficult for the current government to do it because they're sort of in the crawl through a big corporation one of the reasons i wanted to put that forward with that i felt that maybe it's a person who would be for progressive to try and come to some consensus about what kind of program they will likely be implemented and then what they would do if they were to say ok we will support of the poor at medium heat will that support this program and if you don't support the more you can laugh if you don't

support that will support from really helpful if they're having to family thirtieth we can pick up for yes we can spend two hundred billion dollars two year old concert growth without you are going and went with them to be a lot older people for so you could get a government collect the nutritive part two our temple mount the big construction program they would have to take place and also with a good education programs for your speed you know we take pretty worn who know how to make the leap to bring them in they'll try to build with the forest but you have to teach how to do it which you pick that crew of korea japan china to build whatever you have to do it

stole a campus many ways that the garbage have to get your you know what i want to contribute yeah do you think he really good really good at revealing that we should have reflect that are worth of them more important creating the job though and even though making the army if they have always thought what things do you see happening outside of government that could help promote a sustainable manufacturing system well it would be nice if there are companies that would profit from the fifth whatever of general electric after the war well it's really heard portugal i think people were just talking about it and thinking about what kind of authority by the un and throw a concrete terms when we

think a good thought it would look like how our government to help reconstruct that also however there are now curly your yard thousands of local efforts all across the controversy over the world paul talk a whole lot about how all across the world with millions of groups that are trying to protect the planet so there we can continue but before the local level of them the great thing with the political issues figure over the only ecological what do you see as the greatest challenges to bringing about a more sustainable manufacturing sector in a more robust manufacturing sector well apparently the power that the particularly the financial sector really enjoyed a situation where they can make more money why should our factory expanding abroad with over a short term strategy so they would have to to reorient from that that awful of other important

provisions or to know a lot of the conventional economic relief worries that the direction of not giving any tricks as to the manufacturing sector the buffalo possible worlds approach and so don't know hardly a repair can't talk about how both of the manufacturing sector if the climate is not ideologically compatible with all you thought that's a very important real ideological barrier to understanding what's going on the film in my book actually propose an alternative paranoid for understanding economic fight talk about economics of an ecosystem where there are certain missions that are important have to have like a factory manager together in a certain way and they thought that both of them oil you know her goal of factors that

are not thoroughly determined by how much money they're making it to the public they're going ideological birth of power barriers there's the common they're all the federal government because they've got to lordy lordy so between all those who vote for it difficult to turn it around but they are hoping that maybe you know showing more than the usual make big turnaround and what do you hope to accomplish i hope that it will invite people to think about issues in a big way in the stomach way maybe you know curves of the authors who say well you know he could do something like that i can do something like that an invasion a bright future really i think one of the fall of the pro growth of how to know if thirty years so that new phone so you have to believe that we can come up with

an exciting future people could be attracted to have to happen when you actually strengthen with the democratic party had nothing to say about how to turn the economy around and you know the republicans were very few they were a major works differently and so particularly economic growth we need to come up with over a concrete plan and i hope that people think about the government can feel pretty much differently than money that's coming out how we fight wars this election actually build things and that i think will be a more concrete way of talk about job creation and perhaps lead to a better outcome in the coming election i'd like to return the pope can really frustrated by that and i think that

both ethical the technological actually really economic reality who will point to pollution that we can create enfield opponent's moral political problem tomorrow for sure sometimes you're a cultural problem but it's important to know that the solutions are out there in the world are important to understand all the problems of all the political afterthought thoughtful report understand what is possible and thoughtful party and push the outlook for what people think is possible well thanks so much of being a child even just been listening to john mann author of the book manufacturing bring prosperity and power to rebuild the american middle class published in two thousand and can buy printer publishers for more information check on the web at daddy daddy daddy about manufacturing green prosperity dot com again that's manufacturing green prosperity dot com the sustainability segment of mind over matters program you have just heard will be on the streaming archives

section of katie excuse web site at its key data largely for the next fourteen days i'm diane warren thanks for listening and usually turn into the sustainability segment again next week on ninety point three of them and katie xv died orgy