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. Report from Santa Fe is made possible in part by grants from New Mexico Tech on the frontier of science and engineering education. For bachelor's, master's, and PhD degrees, New Mexico Tech is the college you've been looking for. 1-800-428-T-E-C-H. I'm Lorraine Mills. Welcome to report from Santa Fe. Our guest today is the newly elevated cabinet secretary for the Department of Cultural Affairs, Stuart Ashman. Welcome. Well, thank you. Nice to be here. Well, we've been watching your progress through this last legislature, and you have so much to tell us about the department. But first, I'd like you to kind of introduce yourself to our viewers. Tell us your background and how you arrived at the Department of Cultural Affairs. Well, I'll be brief and try to put 56 years of life in a minute or two. But as you know, Lorraine, my family migrated to Cuba in the 1920s and established their home there. And
my mother got pregnant. She wanted her son to be born in the United States. So they flew to New York, and I was born there, and then we returned when I was six weeks old. And so I grew up in Latin American culture. And then at age 12, we moved to New York and went through school in New York City. And then after finishing school and doing what kids do after college, I ended up in Santa Fe. So I'd like to say that next year I'll be able to say that I spent half my life in New Mexico. I was trained as an artist and as a photographer, and came to New Mexico drawn by the art and culture here and by the kind of the aura of Santa Fe, you know. I actually came to Southern New Mexico first, living in Rio
Delso for the first year I was here. And then came to Santa Fe and really fell in love with it and have been here since. I was a working artist and developed a career parallel to the studio teaching and doing arts administration and so on. And in the early 90s and 92, I became the director of the governor's gallery under Governor Bruce King and First Lady Alice King. And then three years later I was named director of the Museum of Fine Art of the Museum in Mexico. I stayed there for another five years and then I was drafted by this Spanish Colonial Art Society to help open the Museum of Spanish Colonial Art. And then last September I got a call from the governor's office asking to see me about possibly heading up the office of Cultural Affairs. And of course I jumped at that opportunity. And the rest is history and the making I guess. So here I am as the Secretary of Cultural Affairs.
Well so your transition went from because it was just the department of what was it before? It was the office. The office of Cultural Affairs. And now you are a full-blown cabinet secretary. So and I know one of the main issues as you were elevated to cabinet status was the reorganization of this huge Department of 500 some odd employees. Tell us what the Department of Cultural Affairs entails. Well you know first you know I should tell you that Governor Richardson had a tremendous vision in recognizing the importance of art and culture to our state and through executive order created the department. And then we had a year to go through the legislative process so that a new Cultural Affairs Act could be written and passed on so that it would become the department. And so we were successful in doing that and have lots of legislators to name but I'll skip that. But really the legislature was tremendously
helpful. But let's name one. Jay Paul Taylor. Jay Paul Taylor was really fantastic in helping us but you know Ben-Luhan, Roman Maez, Max Cole, Senator Pinto. I mean I could just go on. There was a huge number of people and of course the majority leader Senator Aragon was a champion. So the department consists of 46 buildings, 550 employees. We have a budget of 34 million dollars from the state. Of course most of our museums have foundations which provide private support so that the total expenditure for the department might be equal sort of 45 or 50 million but in terms of state budget it's 34 million. We manage eight museums, six state monuments, the state library, the state historic preservation division, the office of archeological studies, the New Mexico Arts division and then we
have the administrative services division which handles all of the money for our department and all the personnel departments. And we have, as you know, Museum in Las Cruces in Almagordo we have two museums in Albuquerque and Foreign Santa Fe. And you're about to have some new museums. Tell us about that. That's right. Well we have the Camino Real Heritage Center which is 40 miles south of Socorro, sort of between Socorro and truth or consequences. And that's a fantastic building. It's three miles east of I-25 and we have quietly, we've kept it very quiet but now we're talking to the highway department of transportation about putting up the brown signs because we're slated to open in the fall of 2005. So we're in the process of planning and fabricating the exhibitions.
How was that site chosen since I live in Agua Freya outside of San Fe. Live on the Camino Real, it's northern branch. Why was that location chosen? Well, you know, part of it is the pristine landscape. You know, you could see for dozens of miles without any interference there. And of course, you know the Camino Real ran all the way from San Fe to Mexico City. And we wanted to do it somewhere along the corridor where there was a clear view. And the Bureau Land Management donated the land and for this site which is 40 acres. But they also designated some 1200 acres as view shed. So there's nothing on there except an occasional cow. And you can see the Camino Real and get a sense of what it took to get from San Fe to Mexico City and back for the trade. You know they used to, they used to leave San Fe in late August or September with teams of oxen and you know
wagon trains going to Mexico City to go get supplies and create commerce. And in those days of course there were no truck stops. So you had to carry your goats and your chickens and everything else with you and moving was very slow. It took them a year to get from San Fe to Mexico City. And they left in September so they could be ahead of the weather. So by the time November of December came there were far enough south that they escaped the snow and all of that. In the mud. Exactly. For the wagons. So you'll get a sense of that through the interpretation of the of the museum's program. And when is the opening? It's going to open in November of somewhere between September and November of 2005. Great. Good. And there's another perhaps a little more conveniently located museum scheduled. The New Mexico History Museum. That's right. The New Mexico History Museum is now fully funded thanks again to the legislature
and our governor and the federal government. We have $34 million secured 16, I mean 15 from the federal government and 19 from the state. And that's going to be a 96,000 square foot facility interpreting the history of New Mexico. Which is you know spans some 10,000 years. Or at least that's what we're going to span in our program going from Clovis man, Folsom man all the way to present day including you know the Trinity site and then everything else that happened in between. You know we usually associate the history of New Mexico with Native American culture or Espano culture. But lots went on before that before the Espanos arrived and lots is going on right now. And so we're going to include that. And that sits behind the palace of the governors in a beautiful new building reflecting the Santa
Face style of architecture. I have about 30,000 square feet of exhibit space. And we're looking forward to that. And that's going to open sometime in 2006. Well we have a lot to look forward to and there's been an issue that has come up in Santa Fe a lot. The issue of art that is from the museums. And for those of movie goers and detective thriller readers you know people want to know about this. But tell me why you think we've had so many incidents of art thefts from the museums. And what's being done about it? Well it's an excitement we could do without. And you know I'd like to say just for the record that the museum opened in 1909. And we've had very little theft. And of course now we have a major theft of the Yokeef painting which happened several months ago at the Museum of Fine Art. You know I think that all the publicity about art theft has perhaps alerted
an underworld that these things have potential value. And so there's been some theft and some copycat theft. And I think you know it's I mean there's lots of crime everywhere all the time. And it's unfortunate that it's hit our museums because that's really a theft of all the people. It's one thing to steal something from somebody who has a lot and won't necessarily miss it as much. But this is really the patrimony of the people of New Mexico. So when you steal from one of the museums you're stealing from everybody. And you know a painting is the only one of its kind in existence. So the value is whatever somebody who wants to pay for it. And then how do they sell? You know a Georgia Yokeef everyone knows every painting that she ever did. I mean is this some super black
market collector? I mean how do they how can they possibly get in there? I don't really know somebody as well known as this. Yeah I don't really know much about that world. But there's a market for everything. And there are people probably who don't care where it came from. If you can imagine our enemies in the world there's probably some of Osama bin Laden's good friends who would enjoy the fact that this painting was stolen from a museum in America. So it's almost inconceivable or hard to conceive the number of people that would hang a painting like that in their back room or something like that. There's always been a market for the thieves. Otherwise they wouldn't they wouldn't do it. And of course they probably sell it for much less than its value. But to them it's an immediate gratification.
So we have all the measures in place that we could have. I mean it's a careful balance that you have to have between letting the people see something and protecting it. There's a painting by Picasso, Guernica, that was hanging at the Museum of Modern Art for many years. It was on loan to them. And one day somebody came in with a spray can and spray painted it. Fortunately the painting had a coating on it that made it easy to take off the graffiti. When the painting was returned to its rifle museum in Spain they covered it in plexiglass and put it on a wall that you had to take three steps up to see it and they have two full-time guards on it. So that changes the experience drastically. If you have to go to an x-ray detector now to go to some major museums. So it's unfortunate but these are some of the
measures that we have to take. And we have taken some additional measures of security which of course I can't say out loud. But we're very watchful and hopefully something like that won't happen again. And it's not just a product of our over security conscious time because remember when the Romanian Socialist attacked Michelangelo's Pieta with a hammer. That was what 20, 30 years ago and then people realized that this stuff is absolutely irreplaceable. We have to protect it as much as we can. And as you say it's a fine dance between violating the art appreciator's experience and yet protecting the art. The other thing about art is that it hits you deeply because it always has, it represents some kind of spiritual moment and it's also used as a symbol. The Taliban destroyed the Buddhists in Afghanistan. That was worse than a theft. That was a theft
with an insult attached to it. And so it was used as a symbol in a way. And it's like you said irreplaceable. Who are your favorite artists? Well that's always a tough question. It's like who's what's your favorite movie? You know I have in the different media. I have different artists. Of course, Brankuzzi is one of my favorite sculptors. In photography I always liked minor white and Edward Steichen. In painting there's you know any number of people I when I was younger I loved Henry Russo. And then I was more interested in the abstract people I liked Mark Rothko and Agnes Martin very much. But you know particularly in my position and maybe this is why I'm in the
position is I have an appreciation for all of the qualities. You know you can't say I like all kinds of music. I mean that would be too general. There are some things that I listen to more than others. I really my personal taste is more of the humble arts and maybe they're classified as popular arts or folk arts. But I love to discover you know in some little village somebody that's making something out of wood. I'm talking about in northern New Mexico or Mexico or in Latin America or somewhere. Some secret craft that somebody has developed out of their own vision those kinds of things I find inspiring. Well I know that you will bring them to us too. You've collated or published several books when you were with the Spanish Heritage Museum right. The Spanish Colony. Yes well I was involved in I was really the the driving force behind the book called
Connexionis. You know the writers of that book are Carmel Apadilla and Donna Pierce who did a fantastic job of assembling the history of the Spanish Colony of Arts Society and the artists who have participated. I did make sure that the book happened and I had the privilege of writing a brief introduction to the book. But really that that heritage is it's wonderful that it has been maintained. Credit goes in large part to the Spanish Colony of Arts Society who in the 1920s recognized that there wasn't much attention being paid to this material and so that that made it come alive. I did do a book last year with a group from Albuquerque on abstract New Mexico artists and I was the primary author of that book and really what that does is it traces the abstract art movement
in the Santa Fe Tals Albuquerque area. How did you know we know that this area has always been rich in art but where did the idea of abstract art come from and it really starts in the 1920s with Andrew Dasberg who was the first one to make some lines that kind of reflected Adobe architecture but they were abstract lines and so it really starts from there. I'd like to move on to some of your pet projects because as we were speaking earlier you have an education initiative that is just thrilling tell us what you plan to do. Well we're just really in the talking stage right now and there's been a lot of interest and a lot of enthusiasm for it but it comes out of the idea that New Mexico has all of this cultural patrimony which includes objects, works of art and people because we're probably one of
the only places in the world where you could actually go have a meeting with a tribal governor or where you could go see a truly spiritual Indian dance or where you could be invited to go to a Spanish ceremony, the Matachines for example and then we have all of these artifacts in these museums and so there's an opportunity to train people to be the managers of these cultural institutions and yes there are museum studies programs around the country but just in the way that you know a great hospital offers internships so that people could become great doctors we have the opportunity to lend our institutions to the institutions of higher learning such as UNM or NMSU or Highlands or Eastern or Western or the College of Santa Fe or the Community Colleges
so that all kinds of classes could be could be had which would lead either to degree programs or to certificate programs. Now on one level if you have a certificate program in art handling somebody who graduates high school and is not planning to go to college and is thinking of becoming a museum guard if they took a six month course at a community college maybe they could become an associate curator you know with with that and begin their career in museum studies by the same token we could become known as the Center for Cultural Resource Preservation and Museum Management and people would come here from all over the country and all over the world just as you know if you want to study film you go to UCLA or if you want to study theater you go to NYU we could easily become the Center for Cultural Resource Preservation Study and so we've
had a conversation Sustard event was the my director of statewide programs has had a conversation with me and with the Provost at UNM about perhaps going on with a Cultural Affairs Institute which would encompass all of these studies and it could be electives they could be certificate programs or degree programs so we that's something I'd like to be able to leave behind if I could make that happen in this in this job another thing to look forward to and I think that is just a brilliant idea you know because you had said in in your remarks as you were named cabinet secretary that New Mexico is a state that counts on culture and in so many ways and if we could build that have an education program supporting our dependency on culture and our transmission of culture I just think it's a wonderful idea so let keep us posted on that one we'll do that you know we're
working on a cultural impact study in my department along with a group called the Santa Fe Cultural Leaders and the University of New Mexico Business School and we're going to come out with all the numbers and they're going to be startling because a lot of the economic impact through tourism that comes to New Mexico is directly related to the arts and culture we have a grand event in Santa Fe this summer I don't know how you got it tell us how you got the right Santa Fe Russian summer and what what you're bringing here well we're going to bring well I'll tell you first how it came about you know the the museums are very interested in increasing their attendance in in becoming more accessible to more people and so a lot of museums around the country do these blockbuster exhibitions and of course some of those can cost a million dollars which is beyond our reach but the director of the museum Marsha Ball was able to secure this exhibition of the treasures of Nicholas
and Alexander which is their members of the Tsar's family so it's the great Russian treasures from that era at the beginning of the 20th century and we managed to get the city the Museum of the New Mexico Foundation and other groups to get behind us and there's going to be a almost every cultural institution in Santa Fe is going to be involved and so it's now called Russian summer with the exhibit at the fine arts being the hub of the summer and this exhibit includes if I would imagine paintings sculpture Faberier eggs exactly all of that all of that costumes some historical material to give you a sense of what life was like in Russia during that period and is the fetching house in Tauce tied in with this at all since the Eichelai fetching was one of
our finest and immigrant artists that's right they you know there's a lot of there's a lot of connection coming forward just discovered that Volker de la Harp who's a woodcarver he carved the New Mexico State Seal and he's from Estonia and his father was the Tsar's doctor and he has a fantastic collection of photographs of his family with Tsar's family and so things like that are coming forward and there may be an opportunity to to to also exhibit the connection that that exists in Santa Fe you know and you say well where's the connection between Santa Fe and Russia but there is there is a connection through the melting pot that New Mexico has become is there anything else coming up that we need to know about that well you know we have wonderful exhibits in all the museum the Museum of Indian Arts and Culture is going to open masterpieces of the collection exhibit later on this year the Volker museum just opened a beautiful
exhibit of 32 works from the Sandian Diane Besser collection it's contemporary Santeros it's called Arte Iamistad Art and Friendship that's a really fantastic exhibition of course the History Museum is in the process of being built the Natural History Museum in Albuquerque is doing a new Triassic Hall honoring Mary Gavin so you know we have we have programs I could take up your whole program just making announcements about what we have going on but people can check our website it's www.NewMexicoOCA.com and it has links to all of our facilities that's the office of Cultural Affairs right what we haven't changed the website to the Department of Cultural Affairs but so right now you can get it that way well I just really have impressed with so much is going on and so much to look forward to so I really want to thank you our guest today Stuart Ashman
who is the cabinet secretary for the for the Department of Cultural Affairs thank you for joining us today well thank you it's been a pleasure and I'm Lorraine Mills I'd like to thank you our viewers for being with us on this week's report from Santa Fe report from Santa Fe is made possible in part by grants from New Mexico Tech on the frontier of science and engineering education for bachelor's master's and PhD degrees New Mexico Tech is the college you've been looking for 1-800-428-T-E-C-H
Series
Report from Santa Fe
Episode
Stuart Ashman
Producing Organization
KENW-TV, Eastern New Mexico University, Portales, New Mexico
Contributing Organization
KENW-TV (Portales, New Mexico)
AAPB ID
cpb-aacip-5ff5e281602
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Description
Episode Description
Cabinet Secretary for the Department of Cultural Affairs Stuart Ashman discusses his background, what the department does, some new museums (the El Camino Real Heritage Center and the New Mexico History Museum), art thefts, and some of the projects he’s working on (including museum education initiatives and a “Russian Summer in Santa Fe”).
Series Description
Hosted by veteran journalist and interviewer, Lorene Mills, Report from Santa Fe brings the very best of the esteemed, beloved, controversial, famous, and emergent minds and voices of the day to a weekly audience that spans the state of New Mexico. During nearly 40 years on the air, Lorene Mills and Report from Santa Fe have given viewers a unique opportunity to become part of a series of remarkable conversations – always thoughtful and engaging, often surprising – held in a warm and civil atmosphere. Gifted with a quiet intelligence and genuine grace, Lorene Mills draws guests as diverse as Valerie Plame, Alan Arkin, and Stewart Udall into easy and open exchange, with plenty of room and welcome for wit, authenticity, and candor.
Broadcast Date
2004-04-17
Asset type
Episode
Genres
Interview
Media type
Moving Image
Duration
00:29:12.651
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Credits
Guest: Ashman, Stuart, 1948-
Host: Mills, Lorene
Producer: Ryan, Duane W.
Producing Organization: KENW-TV, Eastern New Mexico University, Portales, New Mexico
AAPB Contributor Holdings
KENW-TV
Identifier: cpb-aacip-d8f42f538be (Filename)
Format: Betacam: SP
Generation: Master
Duration: 00:27:58
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Citations
Chicago: “Report from Santa Fe; Stuart Ashman,” 2004-04-17, KENW-TV, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed July 16, 2025, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-5ff5e281602.
MLA: “Report from Santa Fe; Stuart Ashman.” 2004-04-17. KENW-TV, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. July 16, 2025. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-5ff5e281602>.
APA: Report from Santa Fe; Stuart Ashman. Boston, MA: KENW-TV, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-5ff5e281602