New Mexico in Focus; 948; Student Loan Debt and Gun Ownership

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO INFOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION AND THE NELITTA E. WALKER FUND FOR KNME-TV, THE KNME-TV ENDOWMENT >> THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO INFOCUS WE TALK ABOUT HOW STUDENT LOANS CAN IMPACT RECENT GRADUATES AND WHY IGNORING THEM CAN CAUSE MORE PROBLEMS. >> YOU KNOW, FACE IT, IS MY ADVICE. DEVELOP A PLAN, DEVELOP A STRATEGY FOR PAYING OFF THOSE LOANS. >> AND WE HEAR DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES ON RESPONSIBLE GUN NEW MEXICO FOCUS STARTS NOW. THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR NEW LATER THIS HOUR THE LINE DISCUSSES NEW ALLEGATIONS FROM WITHIN HUMAN SERVICES DEPARTMENT ON FOOD STAMP APPLICATIONS AND WE'LL DEBATE HOW MUCH MONEY SHOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE FOR CANDIDATES RUNNING IN THE NEXT RACE FOR ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR. LAST WEEK, WE BROUGHT IN

DIFFERENT VOICES TO REACT TO THE PROTEST AROUND THE DONALD TRUMP RALLY HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE. WE HEARD FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO WERE THERE, A JOURNALIST, AND THE LINE PANELISTS SHARED THEIR THOUGHTS ON THE RALLY, PROTEST AND CURRENT CLIMATE THIS ELECTION YEAR. HERE ARE SOME OF THE REACTIONS WE RECEIVED ON SOCIAL MEDIA. IT WAS NOT PROTESTING IT WAS ANARCHY. TRUMP DIDN'T SET THE NARRATIVE. THAT CHRIS ON FACEBOOK. >> GOOD TO SEE SO MANY EDUCATORS ON THIS. CLAYTON. CARLOS POSTED, IT WAS NOT TRUMP THAT SHOWED HATRED, IT WAS THE RIOTERS. THAT ALSO WAS FROM FACEBOOK. A THOUGHTFUL AND FAIR DISCUSSION. THAT WAS BY A TWITTER. WANT TO SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON A KNOW WHAT IS ON YOUR MIND, GET IN TOUCH WITH US HERE AT NEWMEXICOINFOCUS.ORG OR FIND US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER. LET'S GO TO THE LINE. >> FORMER NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR GARY JOHNSON BECAME 2016 NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT AT THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY CONVENTION LAST WEEK. HE WAS A REPUBLICAN WHEN HE SERVED TWO TERMS HERE AS GOVERNOR. A LOT TO IMPACT ON THE LATEST POLITICAL NEWS.

I'M JOINED BY TOM GARRITY FROM THE GARRITY GROUP PR. EDDY ARAGON, CEO OF THE ROCK OF TALK ON 95.9 FM ON YOUR DIAL. MARSHA GARCIA FROM STRATEGIES 360 IS HERE AND VIKI HARRISON FROM COMMON CAUSE NEW MEXICO. >> TOM, TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, IS THIS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR LIBERTARIANS? SEE HOW WE UNPACK THIS ONE. THERE IS A LOT OF ANGST OUT THERE AMONG DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS. PEOPLE UNHAPPY WITH WHAT IS AND THE OTHER PARTY. WHAT IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR LIBERTARIANS? >> IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR A THIRD PARTY TO COME IN AND LIBERTARIANS HAPPEN TO BE THE THIRD PART. SO MUCH ANGST OVER PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEES FOR REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS. YOU HAVE A FISCAL CONSERVATIVE, SOMEBODY WHO IS A LITTLE >> PEOPLE MAKE HIM SMILE. >> HE IS A FISCAL CONSERVATIVE, TOUGH ON GOVERNMENT, AND THINK ABOUT HIS TIME WHEN HERE IN NEW MEXICO. I THINK HE HAS ALL THE MAKINGS TO MAKE A POWERFUL IMPACT AND NOW WITH THIS VICE PRESIDENTIAL

RUNNING MATE, GOVERNOR WELD, I THINK THAT THERE IS A -- IT COULD BE MAKE A STRONG OPPORTUNITY. CHALLENGE WILL BE, WILL THEY BE ABLE TO GET ON THE DEBATES. IF THEY GET ON THAT NATIONAL STAGE, THAT IS INSTANT NAME RECOGNITION AND I THINK THEY COULD SWAY SOME, BUT I THINK TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YES, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY HERE. >> EDDY, I HAVE TALKED TO A LOT OF PEOPLE ABOUT THIS TICKET THAT TOM JUST TALKED ABOUT, WELD AS VP WITH MR. JOHNSON. A LOT OF FOLKS THINK THIS IS ALMOST A DREAM TICKET. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? IN A JUST WORLD, THESE GUYS WOULD BE ELEVATED TO A CERTAIN PLACE WITH OTHER PEOPLE. WHAT MAKES THEM LESS OR MORE QUALIFIED THAN ANYBODY ELSE. 16 YEARS OF GOVERNING EXPERIENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO BEING A GOVERNOR, DOES THAT MAKE THEM VIABLE? >> I THINK IT IS A GREAT RESUME BUT THE REPUBLICANS ARE MOVING MOVING OVER AND THEN YOU HAVE DEMOCRATS RUNNING AS REPUBLICANS, DONALD TRUMP. WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT THE WAY THIS WHOLE THING -- IT IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO TOM'S POINT ABOUT A THIRD PARTY, BUT REALLY THIS WHOLE THING IS

ABOUT MONEY, HOW MUCH MONEY WE WILL ABLE TO GET. WILL THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY BE VIABLE, OR ARE WE LOOKING AT 1980 ALL OVER AGAIN, ED SMITH, WHEN HE GOT 1.1%, I THINK THAT IS WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT, TO BE QUITE HONEST. >> YOU THINK HE IS ABLE TO MAKE THAT THRESHOLD TO GET ON THE DEBATE STAGE? >> HE WON'T BE IMPRESSIVE, WON'T BE COMMANDING, HIS STYLE, HIS PRESENCE JUST INTEREST THERE. WHAT IS THERE IS THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY. I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DO FEEL LIBERTARIAN ONCE THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY IS, BUT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE -- HE HAD 70%, JOHNSON IN 2012. THIS YEAR HE ONLY HAD 55% SO HE'S NOT A PURIST IN TERMS OF GETTING THOSE OUT. ONE OF THE BIG PROBLEMS I HAVE WITH GARY JOHNSON IS THE FACT THAT HIS "I SIDE WITH" CAME OUT ON C SPAN AND HE SAID THAT I SIDE WITH BERNIE SANDERS, 73 PERCENT OF THE TIME. SOCIALISM IS OVER HERE AND YOU HAVE LIBERTARIANISM ON THE OTHER SIDE. THAT IS A BIG PHILOSOPHICAL ISSUE FOR GARY JOHNSON. WILL HE BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE THOSE PRINCIPLES THAT WILL

ADVANCE TO 15%. IF HE GETS THE 15%, WILL MEDIA PICK HIM UP, IT'S POSSIBLE. WILL THE MEDIA ALLOW HIM TO GET 15% IN THE POLLING. >> THAT'S A BIG LAST QUESTION THERE. VIKI, IS THE COUNTRY READY FOR A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE AT THIS POINT. >> ABSOLUTELY. THE PARTY, YOU KNOW, THE PARTY SYSTEM WITH JUST TWO, YOU KNOW, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS WE HAVE OVER 300 MILLION PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY AND TO ME I THINK IT IS KIND OF CRAZY TO THINK THAT TWO PEOPLE CAN REALLY SPEAK TO THAT DIVERSE AND THAT LARGE OF A GROUP. I THINK WE NEED 10 PEOPLE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. I THINK WE NEED LOTS OF PEOPLE. AS EDDY SAID, IT IS SO FRUSTRATING THAT IT COMES DOWN TO THE MONEY. WE'RE ALREADY SEEING THE STORIES COME OUT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, GARY JOHNSON WON THIS NOMINATION BUT THE MEDIA IS GOING TO TELL YOU THAT HE DOESN'T STAND A CHANCE BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY MONEY. IT IS SAME THING WE ARE HEARING WITHIN THE BERNIE AND HILLARY THING. BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK THE VOTES,

YOU'RE LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE, THEY ARE ALMOST THE SAME, BUT THE SUPER DELEGATES ARE DIFFERENT SO WE HAVE THIS WHOLE -- AND NEWS NOW IS NOT NEWS. YOU KNOW, HOW MANY TIMES ARE WE READING A STORY AND YOU'RE LIKE, OH, WAIT A MINUTE THAT WAS SPONSORED CONTENT. OR, YOU HAVE TO NOW LOOK AND SEE WHO OWNS THAT BLOG, WHO OWNS THAT PAPER, WHERE DID THEY GET THEIR MONEY FROM. IT IS NOT LIKE YOU CAN JUST TRUST WHAT YOU READ. >> THAT IS RIGHT. MARSHA, INTERESTINGLY, WHEN I GO ON FACEBOOK AND READ ABOUT GARY JOHNSON, SOME PEOPLE HAVE A REAL ISSUE WITH HIS TWO TERMS HERE, ALMOST DISQUALIFIES HIM AUTOMATICALLY FOR NATIONAL OFFICE. OTHER FOLKS ARE LIKE, IT DOESN'T MATTER. THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW. >> SHOULD HIS BACKGROUND MATTER THAT MUCH. >> IT SHOULD BUT AT THE SAME TIME PEOPLE SHOULD BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE AND MOVE FORWARD. BUT, I THINK THE OTHER THING GOING BACK TO WHAT EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT, TRULY, CAN GOVERNOR JOHNSON GET TO A PLACE WHERE THE PUBLIC IS GOING TO YOU START TALKING ABOUT GETTING

15% OF THE SUPPORT, WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED IN 2011, HE WAS NOT PERMITTED ON THE NATIONAL STAGE TO PARTICIPATE IN REPUBLICAN DEBATES. SO, WILL THAT MATTER? WILL IT EVEN MATTER BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHO HE IS, NO NAME ID. SO, I THINK WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS AS WE GET CLOSER TO THE NATIONAL DEBATE STAGE TO SEE IF HE CAN GARNER THAT 15% SUPPORT TO SEE IF THEY CAN MAKE THE CUT. >> GOVERNOR JOHNSON HAD A QUOTE THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE LIBERTARIAN BUT JUST DON'T KNOW IT, INTERESTING TO HEAR HIM SAY THAT. FROM A REPUBLICAN, VERY INTERESTING TO HEAR HIM SAY THAT. CAN HE CARRY A MESSAGE OUT TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND SPECIFICALLY, DISAFFECTED, DOUBLE DIP BERNIE SUPPORTERS, MAY HAVE BEEN DISAFFECTED FROM SOMETHING ELSE, GONE TO BERNIE AND NOW THAT IS NOT QUITE WORKING OUT, THERE IS A HOME FOR THEM IN GARY'S TENT. >> THERE SHOULD BE. GARY JOHNSON HAS THE OPPORTUNITY AND THE TICKET HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE ALL THINGS TO ALL PEOPLE. YOU KNOW, I THINK THEIR BIGGEST HURDLE AS FAR AS DIFFERENT

AUDIENCES IS THE WHOLE MARIJUANA, LEGALIZED MARIJUANA. THAT WAS HOW THE LIBERTARIAN WAS BRANDED OUT OF THE GATE AND SHAME ON THEM, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY HAVE A LOT MORE TO OFFER. >> LET ME STOP YOU. ARE NOT THE TIMES IN THEIR FAVOR? ARE THEY NOT AHEAD OF THE CURVE A LITTLE BIT? >> THAT IS TALKING TO A TARGET AUDIENCE. THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GROW THEIR BASE INTO THOSE WHO ARE SIDING WITH BERNIE AND THOSE SIDING WITH DONALD DONE TRUMP. NOW, ONE OF THE OPPORTUNITIES I THINK IS THAT IF THE DEMOCRATS WANT A CHANCE OF REALLY, YOU KNOW, PULLING AHEAD OF TRUMP FROM THE STALEMATE THAT IT APPEARS TO BE IN, THEY NEED GARY JOHNSON ON THE STAGE, BECAUSE GARY WILL VIRTUALLY SPLIT THAT VOTE BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP -- IT WILL SPLIT THE TRUMP VOTE. IT WILL GET THAT MIDDLE. AND BRING IN SOME DEMOCRATS BUT NOT ENOUGH THAT WOULD HINDER OR WOUND THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE. >> INTERESTING. LET ME HAVE YOU FOLLOW-UP. THE IDEA -- THIS HAPPENED SOMETIMES IN DEBATES, BY THE WAY, YOU GET THIS THIRD PERSON ON STAGE AND IT'S ALMOST LIKE THEY ARE IN CAHOOTS WITH ONE

OR THE OTHER AND THEY CAN KIND OF GET AFTER IT. DO YOU SEE AN OPPORTUNITY THERE? >> JOHNSON SAID HE IS NOT AFRAID OF DONALD TRUMP, ACTUALLY BLEW HIM A KISS ON TELEVISION. DOES THAT WORK IN HIS FAVOR? >> HE NEEDS TO ATTACK HILLARY AND SANDERS. IF HE IS A TRUE LIBERTARIAN, A TRUE FISCAL CONSERVATIVE, WHY IS HE NOT GOING TO THOSE PEOPLE OCCUPYING GOVERNMENT FOR 20 YEARS? WHY IS HE ATTACKING DONALD TRUMP. HE IS NOT GOING TO GET IT BY ATTACKING DONALD TRUMP. DONALD TRUMP WON'T PAY ATTENTION TO HIM. >> HE CALLED HIS RUNNING MATE A DRUNK. >> ANSWER QUESTIONS OF IMMIGRATION, ISIS, REAL THINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW IN THIS COUNTRY AND HE IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THOSE. HE IS COMING OUT AND ATTACKING THE PERSONALITY IN POLITICS AND HE IS GOING TO SUCCUMB TO IT AND REASON WHY HE IS GOING TO IS BECAUSE HE IS NOT A PERSONALITY. >> INTERESTING. IS THAT A POINT THERE, GENERALLY YOU HAVE TO BE SO MUCH MORE MAINSTREAM. YOU END UP DISAPPOINTING BOTH

SIDES, YOUR BASE IS DISAPPOINTED AND THEN MAINSTREAM FOLKS. HE'S NOT QUITE MAINSTREAM ENOUGH FOR THEM. HIS THAT HIS ESSENTIAL PROBLEM? >> IT IS AN ESSENTIAL PROBLEM FOR EVERY CANDIDATE. THEIR MESSAGING BEFORE THE PRIMARY VERSUS AFTER THE PRIMARY IS A JOKE FOR MOST PEOPLE. IF THEY THINK PEOPLE AREN'T NOTICING, THEY ARE WRONG. PEOPLE ARE NOTICING. HOW MANY HAVE WE SEEN OF BOTH TRUMP AND HILLARY CLINTON AND BERNIE SANDERS, THIS IS WHAT THEY SAID NOW. WE SEE THOSE ALL THE TIME AND AGAIN THIS POINTS BACK TO WHEN YOU HAVE GOT TWO PEOPLE OR THREE PEOPLE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, AND THEY ARE PANDERING AND TRYING TO ANSWER AND TALK TO ALL THESE -- THEY CAN'T DO IT. UNLESS THEY HAVE FOUR OR FIVE DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES. >> LAST POINT HERE, 30 SECONDS LEFT, IS THERE ANYPLACE FOR LIBERTARIANS OF COLOR IN THIS SITUATION, PEOPLE OF COLOR TO COME INTO THE LIBERTARIAN CAMP, SO TO SPEAK? HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING THAT MAKES IT ATTRACTIVE. >> THAT IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION AND I THINK WE CAN ALSO

GO BACK TO WHAT EDDY WAS TALKING ABOUT. WHERE ARE THE ISSUES THAT MATTER TO PEOPLE OF COLOR. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION REFORM, WITH A PATHWAY TO CITIZENSHIP. IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CREATING JOBS IN A STAGNANT ECONOMY LIKE IN NEW MEXICO, WHERE WE HAVEN'T RECOVERED FROM THE RECESSION YET, SO I THINK ONCE THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY OR THE LIBERTARIAN TICKET STARTS ADDRESSING THOSE VERY SPECIFIC CONCERNS, WE CAN SEE HOW PEOPLE OF COLOR, HOW MINORITY COMMUNITIES ARE GOING TO RESPOND TO THAT BUT AT THIS POINT WE DON'T KNOW YET. >> GOOD POINT. WHEN WE COME BACK TO THE LINE, WE'LL DISCUSS NEW ALLEGATIONS IN THE ONGOING CASE INVOLVING THE DEPARTMENT THAT PROCESSES FOOD STAMP APPLICATIONS HERE IN NEW >> I DON'T CARE IF IT HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 2003, THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE TO SEND OUT AN EMAIL SAYING DON'T BREAK FEDERAL LAW, I MEAN, WHAT DOES THAT THOUSANDS OF COLLEGE STUDENTS

IN NEW MEXICO RECENTLY GRADUATED BUT AFTER CELEBRATING AND TAKING PICTURES WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY, SOME FACE THE HARSH REALITY OF LOAN PAYMENTS. THAT CREATES CHALLENGES FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD. IN RECENT YEARS NEW MEXICO HAD THE HIGHEST DEFAULT RATE FOR STUDENT LOANS OF ANY STATE IN THE COUNTRY. THIS WEEK, OUR PRODUCER SARAH GUSTAVUS BRINGS US DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES ON HOW TO MANAGE STUDENT LOANS AND WHAT STUDENTS AND RECENT GRADUATES ARE DEALING WITH TODAY IN NEW MEXICO. >> I'M JOINED BY CHRIS QUINTANA FROM ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL. SUSAN MORRISON Q FINANCIAL PLANNING. THANKS FOR JOINING US. >> ADRIAN FAUSTINE, A GRADUATE STUDENT AT ANDERSON SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT AT UNM. >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME. >> I WANT TO START WITH YOU ADRIAN. YOU RECENTLY GOT YOUR HOW MUCH DO YOU OWE IN STUDENT LOANS? >> UPWARDS AROUND 30,000. >> HOW DOES THAT FEEL? DOES THAT FEEL MANAGEABLE OR FEEL LIKE THAT IS A REAL PROBLEM. >> I FEEL LIKE EVENTUALLY IT IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM. RIGHT NOW, I AM NOT THINKING ABOUT IT. OR TRYING NOT TO THINK ABOUT IT. I THINK EVENTUALLY IT IS GOING

TO DAWN ON ME IT IS NOT GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT I WANT TO DEAL WITH. >> IS THIS FOR YOUR UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE OR WHAT YOU HAVE TAKEN OUT TO GO TO GRADUATE SCHOOL. >> A COMBINATION. THE MAJORITY IS GRADUATE SCHOOL BECAUSE I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO GET THE LOTTERY SCHOLARSHIP AND ME WITH MY UNDERGRADUATE. >> WHY DID YOU FEEL LIKE YOU NEEDED THAT GRADUATE DEGREE FOR YOUR CAREER? >> I FELT LIKE BEING IN A BUSINESS DEGREE IT SEPARATED ME FROM THE REST OF THE PACK, THAT IN MY OPINION, MOST PEOPLE WHO GET A BUSINESS DEGREE ONLY GET THE BACHELOR'S. SO, I WANTED TO GO ABOVE AND BEYOND AND GET A MASTERS SO I AM MORE MARKETABLE. >> A LOT OF TIMES HERE ON THE SHOW AND OUT IN THE COMMUNITY FOLKS ARE SAYING, YOUNG PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF WITH AMBITION WHO WANT TO GO FURTHER IN THEIR EDUCATION, THEY CAN DO ALL THE GREAT THINGS BUT CAN'T GET A GOOD JOB WHERE THEY CAN PAY OFF THE LOANS IN NEW MEXICO. IS THAT A CONCERN FOR YOU? >> DEFINITELY, BECAUSE I FEEL IF I HAVE A JOB THAT I AM NOT TOO

SURE IF I'LL GET SECURITY OF KEEPING THAT JOB FOR A LONG TIME. SO IF I GET A POSITION, I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS GOING TO HELP ME FULLY PAY OFF MY LOANS. IT MAY PARTIALLY HELP BUT THEN THE LOAN WILL EVENTUALLY JUST BUILD BACK UP. SO, I AM A LITTLE WORRIED. >> WHAT DO YOU HEAR FROM FOLKS YOU GRADUATED WITH? ARE THEY CONCERNED WITH THE SAME THING? >> I HAVE BOTH SIDES WHERE FRIENDS ARE PAYING THEM OFF AND A LOT OF THEM AREN'T. THEY ARE STILL BUILDING UP LOANS. THEY ARE IN SCHOOL. AND EVEN CONTINUING THEIR EDUCATION JUST SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE BURDEN OF PAYING OFF THEIR STUDENT LOANS. >> THAT SOUNDS RISKY. AS A FINANCIAL ADVISER, WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THAT? >> IT IS RISKY. ONE OF THE THINGS WE SEE IS THESE BLOSSOMING STUDENT LOANS AND YOU KNOW ACTUALLY ADRIAN HAS DONE A GREAT JOB OF KEEPING HIS AVERAGE STUDENT LOAN DEBT FOR JUST FOUR YEARS IS

ABOUT 30,000, ABOUT 29,000. SO, REALLY FOR UNDERGRADUATE AND GRADUATE SCHOOL TOGETHER, YOU HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB OF KEEPING YOUR LOANS REASONABLE BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT IS GOING TO BE AN EASY PAYOFF PROCESS. SO, YOU DEFINITELY HAVE WORK AHEAD OF YOU, A GOOD JOB, OR MAYBE SOMETHING LIKE THE PUBLIC LOAN FREEDOM PROGRAM THAT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO WORK AT A GREAT COMPANY LIKE KNME, A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION, AND GIVE YOU RELIEF THERE. >> FULL DISCLOSURE, I QUALIFY FOR THAT AND I AM ON THAT MYSELF FOR MY OWN GRADUATE SCHOOL. >> ARE YOU HEARING FROM A LOT OF CLIENTS THAT STUDENT LOANS ARE PART WHAT THEY ARE DEAL. >> ABSOLUTELY. PEOPLE OF ALL AGES RIGHT OUT OF SCHOOL, ALL THE WAY THEIR 40'S, EVEN INTO THEIR EARLY 50'S, THEY'LL HAVE, IN MANY CASES, A DRAMATIC AMOUNT OF LOAN DEBT THAT IS A DRAG ON THEIR CASH FLOW AND THEIR ABILITY TO SAVE FOR RETIREMENT AND SAVE FOR THEIR OWN CHILDREN'S COLLEGE AND TO BUY A HOUSE AND REALLY SORT OF GET A FOOTHOLD ECONOMICALLY. >> CHRIS, YOU'RE REPORTING ON STUDENT LOANS IN NEW MEXICO.

WHAT ARE SOME TRENDS THAT YOU THINK FOLKS SHOULD KNOW ABOUT? >> FIRST AND FOREMOST, IN NEW MEXICO, IT IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE WE ARE LEADING THE PACK KIND OF IN THE WRONG WAY. YEAH, TWO MOST RECENT YEARS WORTH OF DATA WE WERE AT 20.8% IN DEFAULT RATE. 20% MORE RECENTLY AND THAT IS REALLY -- I THINK THAT SHOULD BE A WARNING TO PEOPLE, BUT, I MEAN, ONE IN FIVE STUDENTS DEFAULTING ON THEIR LOANS, THAT IS A SCARY FIGURE AND IT IS LEADING THE NATION, SO THAT IS ONE THING TO KEEP IN MIND. WHATEVER YOU SEE AROUND THE NATION, NEW MEXICO HAS IT EVEN WORSE. AND I THINK A LOT OF WHAT YOU SEE ALSO, AND THIS WAS REPORTING THAT I DID BACK IN 2014, SO MAYBE IT CHANGED A LITTLE BIT SINCE THEN, BUT OFTEN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HIT HARDEST BY THIS SORT OF THING ARE STUDENTS WHO TAKE OUT A LOAN FOR THEIR FRESHMAN OR SOPHOMORE YEAR OF COLLEGE AND

THEN DROP OUT. AND SO THEY NO LONGER HAVE THE EXPANDED EARNING POWER THAT COMES FROM BACHELOR'S DEGREES BUT THEY ALSO ARE TRYING TO FIND A JOB THAT PAYS, THAT IS A REAL CHALLENGE. THOSE ARE SOME THINGS THAT I HAVE NOTICED. >> THAT IS BIG DEAL AND THOSE LOANS ARE NOT DISCHARGEABLE IN A BANKRUPTCY. >> THAT IS CORRECT. IN MANY CASES YOU CANNOT DISCHARGE STUDENT LOANS IN BANKRUPTCY. THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS BUT YOU HAVE TO BE IN A SERIOUS HARDSHIP POSITION. YOU CAN'T DISCHARGE IN BANKRUPTCY. YOU HAVE TO CREATE A PLAN TO PAY THEM, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF YOUR CASH FLOW. THERE IS A DEDUCTION FOR THE INTEREST ON THE STUDENT LOANS IF YOU MAKE LESS THAN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY. BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT HELPS A LITTLE BIT. BUT IT IS REALLY, IF YOU HAVE A BIG STUDENT LOAN DEBT, THAT PRINCIPAL PAYMENT IS NOT DEDUCTIBLE AND IT IS GOING TO BE A BIG PROBLEM. >> A LOT OF STUDENTS GRADUATING THIS MONTH AND IT MIGHT BE TEMPTING TO IGNORE IT FOR A WHILE BUT WHAT WOULD BE YOUR

ADVICE TO THEM AND MAYBE THEIR PARENTS OR ADULTS THAT WANT TO SUPPORT THOSE PEOPLE JUST GETTING STARTED AFTER GRADUATING? >> IT IS A SCARY TIME, BECAUSE YOU'RE SHIFTING FROM TAKING OUT THE LOANS AND GOING TO SCHOOL TO THINKING ABOUT PAYING THEM OFF. SO I THINK THERE IS A TEMPTATION TO CONTINUE TO DEFER LOANS, LIKE YOUR FRIEND WHO BASICALLY JUST KEEPS TAKING OUT LOANS AND SORT OF IGNORING IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO FACE THE MUSIC AND IT IS REALLY A GOOD IDEA AT THAT POINT TO DEVELOP A PLAN, RIGHT? ARE YOU GOING TO JUST TRY TO PAY THIS OFF AND OVER WHAT TIME PERIOD MAKES SENSE. ARE YOU GOING TO GO INTO SOME KIND OF A JOB WHERE YOU CAN MAYBE HAVE LIKE A TEACHING JOB OR A PUBLIC SERVICE JOB WHERE YOU MIGHT HAVE OPPORTUNITIES FOR SOME LOAN FORGIVENESS, TEACH FOR AMERICA, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO IT IS REALLY, YOU KNOW, FACE IT IS MY ADVICE. DEVELOP A PLAN AND STRATEGY FOR PAYING OFF THOSE LOANS. >> CHRIS, WHAT ABOUT THE LOTTERY SCHOLARSHIP. ADRIAN MENTIONED HE USED THAT FOR UNDERGRADUATE, HOW ARE THINGS LOOKING RIGHT NOW FOR THAT IN NEW MEXICO? >> I DON'T WANT TO MAKE ANY

PREDICTIONS BUT I CAN TELL YOU WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING IN RECENT YEARS. FOR A LONG TIME WHEN I WENT TO SCHOOL FROM 2008 TO 2012, IT COVERED 100% OF YOUR TUITION LEAVING YOU TO COVER FEES AND MISCELLANEOUS COLLEGE EXPENSES. THESE DAYS I BELIEVE IT IS AT 90% OF YOUR TUITION COVERAGE AND YOU KNOW IT IS BEING PROPPED UP BY THE ALCOHOL EXCISE TAX PARTIALLY. SO, BUT THAT IS SUPPOSED TO EXPIRE, I THINK, IN 2017. SO, BY FALL 2017, THE RATE COULD DROP TO 60% IF LAWMAKERS DON'T DECIDE NOT TO PROP IT UP ON ALCOHOL EXCISE TAX OR CHANGE HOW IT IS WORKING. THAT COULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON STUDENTS WHO -- I MEAN, JUST SPEAKING FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, LIKE HAVING THAT TUITION COVERED WAS A REALLY BIG DEAL FOR ME. AND, IF I HAD -- IF IT WAS ONLY HALF OR ROUGHLY HALF OF MY TUITION, I DON'T KNOW WHERE I WOULD BE RIGHT NOW.

SO, THAT IS SOMETHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO BUT THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY FOR SURE GOING TO HAPPEN. JUST KIND OF WHAT WE HAVE SEEN RECENTLY WITH LOTTERY SCHOLARSHIP. >> DID YOU END UP TAKING OUT STUDENT LOANS. >> I DID, YEAH. I WANTED A NEW COMPUTER WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE. AND SO, YEAH, YOU KNOW, I THINK WHEN I WAS TAKING THEM OUT I DIDN'T REALLY SEE IT AS A PROBLEM AT THE TIME. IT JUST SEEMED LIKE FUTURE CHRIS, AND NOW THAT FUTURE HAS ARRIVED, I AM HERE AND I AM UPSET AT MY YOUNGER SELF, BUT NO ONE EVER TOLD ME WHAT WAS GOING TO BE INVOLVED WITH IT. YOU'RE YOUNG AN YOU SEE THIS MONEY. YOU'RE LIKE, OH WOW, THIS IS MORE MONEY THAN I EVER HAD ACCESS TO IN MY LIFE. AS A FIRST GENERATION COLLEGE STUDENT AS WELL, JUST BEING IN COLLEGE IS A BIG DEAL. YOU KIND OF FEEL THESE THINGS IMMEDIATELY AND I THINK IF I HAD THOUGHT ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT MORE, HAD SOME KIND OF FINANCIAL ADVISEMENT TELLING ME WHAT THE REPAYMENT PROCESS WOULD HAVE

BEEN, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE RECONSIDERED TAKING OUT THOSE LOANS. >> THAT IS AN INTERESTING PERSPECTIVE. ADRIAN, DID YOU HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEEDED WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED TAKING OUT LOANS? >> NOT AT ALL. THEY DIDN'T INFORM ME REALLY, JUST TOLD ME HERE, HEY, THERE IS A FAFSA COMING UP, TOOK ME A WHILE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT WAS. LIKE CHRIS SAYS, THEY GIVE YOU A BUNCH OF MONEY AND BEING A COLLEGE STUDENT, YOU SEE THIS BIG LUMP OF MONEY, YEAH, YOU TAKE IT IN AND SPEND IT AND DO WHATEVER WITH IT. THING. LUCKILY MY PARENTS HELPED ME OUT AND TOLD ME, NO, DON'T DO IT, BUT, SEEING ALL THAT MONEY AND WANTING TO SPEND IT AND REALIZING THAT MONEY IS FOR SCHOOL AND NOT A NEW COMPUTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT, YEAH IT WAS DEFINITELY A BURDEN TO SEE ALL THAT MONEY AND NOT REALLY DO ANYTHING WITH IT. >> I HAVE HEARD, SUSAN, FOLKS TALKING ABOUT THE FACT

THEY ARE FILLING IT OUT FOR THEMSELVES, HOW CHALLENGING FOR FIRST GENERATION COLLEGE STUDENTS NAVIGATING THAT PROCESS. ANY ADVICE FOR THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE? >> IT IS A VERY COMPLEX PROCESS. IT IS A COMPLEX DOCUMENT AND IT IS NOT CLEAR WHAT OF THEIR ASSETS ARE CONSIDERED AND WHAT ASSETS ARE CONSIDERED AND SO FORTH. I KNOW THERE IS SOME GREAT PEOPLE THAT WORK IN SCHOOLS THAT CAN HELP FILL THOSE OUT, BUT I THINK TO ADRIAN'S POINT, AND REALLY TO CHRIS' POINT TOO, IN TERMS OF GETTING A LUMP SUM OF MONEY WHEN YOU ARE A YOUNG PERSON, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE IS NOW A MOVE OR AT LEAST PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS THE COLLEGE AFFORDABILITY PLAN THAT INCLUDES AT LEAST THE IDEA OF MAYBE GIVING THE STUDENT THE MONEY OVER A PERIOD OF TIME INSTEAD OF ALL AT ONCE, MAYBE PAYING SOME OF THE MONEY DIRECTLY TO THE COLLEGE, YOU KNOW, TRYING, TO YOU KNOW, SAVE STUDENTS FROM THEMSELVES, BASICALLY, WHEN THEY GET A LUMP SUM. AND SOME EDUCATION AROUND THAT.

AS BOTH OF YOU POINTED OUT, JUST HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF COUNSELING AROUND GETTING THAT LUMP SUM OR GETTING THE REGULAR DISBURSEMENTS WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL. >> IT IS NOT JUST A NATURAL THING TO KNOW HOW TO MANAGE MONEY FOR ALL OF US. ADRIAN, ANYTHING THAT YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW AS YOU CONTINUE GRADUATE SCHOOL AND MANAGING THESE LOANS? ARE THERE STEPS YOU'LL TAKE TO MANAGE THE MONEY? >> YEAH. ONE BIG THING IS, LIKE, I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE OUT THE BIG LOANS. I WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH I NEED WHEN I NEED IT, SO, THEN I KNOW, I CAN PULL OUT A MANAGEABLE AMOUNT BECAUSE AT FIRST I DID DO THE MISTAKE AND PULLED OUT LIKE EVERYTHING THEY OFFERED ME, AND I AM KIND OF PAYING FOR IT, BUT, YEAH, DEFINITELY SOMETHING I NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO. >> CHRIS WHAT ABOUT YOU? WHAT ARE YOU THINKING FOR FUTURE COVERAGE OR HOW YOU MANAGE THOSE LOANS YOU ALREADY HAVE. >> NOT GOING BACK TO GRADUATE SCHOOL. YOU KNOW, I THINK AS FAR AS PAYING THEM OFF, IT IS SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING I

AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO WORK ON. FOR FUTURE COVERAGE THINGS THAT I WILL PROBABLY TRY TO ADDRESS IS WHAT COLLEGES ARE DOING AND KIND SOME OF THE DIFFICULTIES THAT COLLEGES HAVE IN MANAGING THIS. THEIR REPUTATION IS TIED TO A STUDENT'S ABILITY TO REPAY THEIR LOANS BUT A LOT OF TIME, YOU GRADUATED, YOU HAVE GONE ON, THEY MAY NOT EVEN BE IN THE STATE ANYMORE, BUT THE DEFAULT RATE IS STILL ATTACHED TO THE UNIVERSITY. SO, I MEAN, I ALWAYS THINK THAT IS AN INTERESTING TOPIC AND SEEING WHAT UNIVERSITIES CAN DO TO TRY TO MANAGER THEIR DEFAULT RATE BECAUSE IF IT GETS TOO HIGH, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN INTERVENE. >> THAT IS AN INTERESTING POINT. WE ARE GOING TO LEAVE IT THERE. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR SITTING DOWN WITH US THIS WEEK. >> THANK YOU. >> WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE. ARGUMENTS ARE STILL BEING HEARD IN A FEDERAL COURT CASE INVOLVING ALLEGATIONS THAT SUPERVISORS IN THE STATE HUMAN SERVICES DEPARTMENT FAKE ASSETS TO APPLICATIONS FOR FOOD STAMPS IN ORDER TO DENY PEOPLE ACCESS TO EMERGENCY FOOD BENEFITS. THE NEW MEXICO CENTER ON LAW AND POVERTY REQUESTED, IN THE

FEDERAL COURT CASE, THAT THE JUDGE APPOINT AN INDEPENDENT OPERATIONS IN HSD INCLUDING PROCESSING OF APPLICATIONS FOR THE SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANT PROGRAM, WHICH IS SNAP, OF COURSE, AND MEDICAID. MARSHA, INTERESTINGLY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HAD NEW ALLEGATIONS THAT THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON BACK TO '03. THE LATEST ALLEGATIONS ABOUT HOW IF YOU DON'T DO THIS AS A LINE WORKER, YOU HAVE TO SEND THIS ALL THE WAY UP TO YOUR SUPERVISOR. IT LOOKS LIKE THINGS ARE STARTING TO WHITTLE DOWN AND POINT TOWARDS THE SUPERVISORS MORE AND MORE. DO YOU GET THAT SENSE? >> I THINK THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT MORE INFORMATION THAT IS GOING TO COME OUT AS THESE HEARINGS GO. A PROBLEM WITH HSD. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME. WE'RE STILL TRYING TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE HEALTH DEBACLE. IT SHOWS THAT GOVERNOR MARTINEZ HAS NOT BEEN HOLDING HER ADMINISTRATION ACCOUNTABLE. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BRINGING AN OUTSIDE AGENCY OR AN OUTSIDE

ENTITY TO START MONITORING THINGS, MAYBE IT IS TIME. MAYBE NOW IS THE TIME BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DENYING NEW MEXICANS A BASIC HUMAN NECESSITY LIKE FOOD. WHETHER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT IS COMING FROM RANK AND FILE EMPLOYEES OR COMING FROM SUPERVISORS, THE BOTTOM LINE, SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE AND WE JUST HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO SEE THAT THIS AGENCY OR OTHER AGENCIES WITHIN THIS ADMINISTRATION HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PULL THAT OFF. >> THE POINT IS MADE OFTEN THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES, MEANING PEOPLE POWER, THINGS BEING PAID FOR, UPGRADE OF SYSTEMS AND THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM. ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT, WE HAVE FOLKS SAYING, LOOK, WE HAVE TO PARE DOWN GOVERNMENT A BUNCH. IT IS TOO FAT. IS THIS A RESULT OF THAT KIND OF THINKING, YOU THINK? >> IT IS HAS BECOME A POLITICAL FOOTBALL AND FOR A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR TO SAY WE ARE GOING TO THROW MONEY AT A PROBLEM IS REALLY REPUBLICAN OR CONSERVATIVE. I THINK --

>> IS IT ACCURATE, THOUGH? DO WE NEED MORE MONEY -- >> I DON'T KNOW. >> WHAT IS YOUR BEST GUESS. >> I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE I DON'T WORK AND I DON'T BRING IN AS AN INDEPENDENT AGENCY. I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE TO GET THIS TO PEOPLE WHO NEED FOOD, GET THE JOB DONE. IF YOU'RE LYING ON A STATE DOCUMENT WHICH WE HAVE TO ALLOCATE RESOURCES, THOSE PEOPLE NEED TO BE FIRED. SHE NEEDS TO DO THAT. OTHERWISE SHE IS NOT GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ, SHE IS JUST SUSANA MARTINEZ. LAWYERING UP IS BASICALLY KIND OF LIKE HIDING, IN MY OPINION. SO, I HATED THE STORY FROM THE GET GO. I READ THIS. I WAS DISGUSTED AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT PEOPLE THAT NEED IT. DON'T TRY TO PAINT WITH A BROAD BRUSH AND SAY, THERE IS TOO MANY PEOPLE ON IT OR SOME PEOPLE ARE ABUSING THE SYSTEM. >> GO OUT AND FIND THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE ABUSING IT. STOP COMPLAINING. DON'T LET THE JOURNALISTS DRIVE THE CONVERSATION. MAKE SURE THE POOREST AMONG US THAT DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO RESOURCES, ARE GETTING THOSE FOR THE SEVEN DAYS. IF YOU LIE ONE TIME ON AN APPLICATION, YOU WILL BE FIRED IMMEDIATELY. IF WE LIED ON ANYTHING, RIGHT? LYING IS JUST BAD.

I TELL THAT TO ME KIDS. WE TELL THAT TO -- THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 2003. IT IS NOT A POLITICAL FOOTBALL BETWEEN RICHARDSON AND SUSANA MARTINEZ OR ANYBODY ELSE. LET'S KEEP IT SIMPLE. >> INTERESTING. SECRETARY, HE IS THE BOTTOM LINE, IT WOULD SEEM TO ME, ON ANY DEPARTMENT WHEN THINGS HAPPEN. HE HAS ISSUED MEMOS. HE ISSUED DIRECTIVES SAYING THIS SHAN'T HAPPEN ANYMORE, AS THEY SAY. IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU OR TO EDDY'S POINT, DOES SOMEBODY NEED TO BE SACKED HERE TO MAKE A BIGGER POINT. AND SHOULD IT BE THE SECRETARY? >> I THINK SO, ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, I DON'T CARE IF IT HAS FACT THAT YOU HAVE TO SEND OUT AN EMAIL SAYING DON'T BREAK FEDERAL LAW, I MEAN, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? I JUST, YOU KNOW, AS I READ THIS STORY, IT IS HARD FOR ME TO READ THIS. IT HURTS MY HEART AND, YOU KNOW, I WARNED YOU I MAY START CRYING ON THE AIR. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE THAT

ARE NOT EATING. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE THAT HAVE $100 TO THEIR NAME. THIS IS THE MOST VULNERABLE OF OUR POPULATION AND HOW WE CAN THINK THAT LYING AND CREATING FAKE ASSETS FOR THEM AND THEN AS EDDY SAYS, INSTEAD OF COMING CLEAN AND BEING TRANSPARENT AND THROWING IT ALL ON THE TABLE, WE HIRE AN ATTORNEY THAT WE ARE ALSO PAYING FOR. IF WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES THEN HOW HAVE WE HAD ENOUGH RESOURCES TO HIRE THIS PARTICULAR FIRM AND SPEND $400,000 IN CONTRACTS FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS? DON'T WE HAVE ATTORNEYS WORKING FOR THE STATE. TALK ABOUT BLOATED GOVERNMENT AND IT HAPPENS IN SO MANY DEPARTMENTS WHERE THEY HIRE OUTSIDE COUNSEL WHEN THEY HAVE INSIDE COUNSEL. >> IT HAS BECOME A POLITICAL THING FOR THEM TO ADVANCE THEIR POLITICAL CAREERS. >> MEANWHILE PEOPLE ARE NOT EATING.

AND WHEN SOMEBODY TAKES THE FIFTH, I MEAN, I KNOW THAT IS A PREVIOUS STORY THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN COVERED, BUT THAT SHOULD CONTINUALLY BE HIGHLIGHTED. YOU SHOULD NEVER BE TAKING THE FIFTH ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS. >> EXACTLY. RIGHT. >> ACCOUNTABILITY, ARE WE AT A POINT, HAVE WE HIT BOTTOM WHERE THERE IS ENOUGH IN YOUR MIND THAT SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE, SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT, BEYOND HAVING THE FEDS COME AND TAKE OVER ISD. >> IT HAS TO BE LOOKED AT ADMINISTRATION WIDE. THIS IS NOT THE ONLY ADMINISTRATION THAT HAD THESE TROUBLES, SECRETARY OF STATE HAVING TO SERVE JAIL TIME. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LOT OF ISSUES GOING ON WITH OUR TAX AND REVENUE DEPARTMENT AS WELL. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME HSD HAS BEEN SEEN IN THIS LIGHT WHERE THEY ARE DOING THINGS WRONG AND HURTING NEW MEXICANS. THINGS NEED HAPPEN AND CHANGE. AND THE BOTTOM LINE, AGAIN, IS THAT NEW MEXICO HAS A VERY HIGH NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE HUNGRY. IT NEEDS TO STOP. >> I DIDN'T MEAN TO LEAVE YOU OUT. SORRY.

>> AGAIN, SAME QUESTION. ACCOUNTABILITY. WHERE DO YOU STAND ON THIS RIGHT NOW? >> WELL, I MEAN, IT IS A LEGAL CASE. I DON'T DISAGREE THAT THE MOST VULNERABLE ARE BEING IMPACTED. THAT HAS TO BE FIXED. THIS IS A LONG-TERM ISSUE. THERE IS A MIND SET THAT HAPPENS IN GOVERNMENT AND BY THE WAY I JUST THINK THAT OVERALL GOVERNMENT WORKERS WANT TO DO GOOD. I THINK SOMETIMES WE HAVE SOME WORKERS THAT DON'T SHARE THAT SAME MIND SET AND WANT TO JUST KIND OF WAIT OUT THE ADMINISTRATION. I THINK WHAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE HAPPENING HERE IS IF YOU HAVE A WORK OF STATE GOVERNMENT WORKERS, WAITING OUT THE SYSTEM TO BASICALLY SAY, WE'LL WAIT OUT THE MARTINEZ ADMINISTRATION AND WAIT OUT THIS SECOND SECRETARY OF HSD FOR THE MARTINEZ ADMINISTRATION. WE'LL WAIT FOR THE NEW FOLKS TO COME IN AND THERE IS AN INHERENT ISSUE THAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP AND PERHAPS HAVING SOMEONE GO IN AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE HAVE TO CLEAN OUT HSD AND FIX THE ISSUES. I DON'T THINK IT IS AN ISSUE THAT YOU HAVE TO ASK FOR

PEOPLE'S RESIGNATIONS AT THE DIRECTOR LEVEL OR SECRETARY LEVEL. THEY ARE JUST THE NEXT ONE ON WATCH. THERE IS AN INHERENT ISSUE PLAYING OUT THAT IS IMPACTING THE MOST VULNERABLE. >> TO MY MIND, IT IS A RESOURCES ISSUE. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES, PEOPLE START PLAYING GAMES TO COVER THEMSELVES. AND SO PEOPLE BECOME ALMOST BLAMEFUL AND BLAMELESS. WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'LL DISCUSS A POSSIBLE INCREASE IN PUBLIC FUNDING FOR THE NEXT ALBUQUERQUE >> WE BOAST SOME OF THE WEAKEST GUN LAWS IN THE COUNTRY. DON'T PASS MORE GUN LAWS, ENFORCE THE ONES WE HAVE. WE DON'T HAVE ANY. >> GUN OWNERSHIP IS ONE OF THE HOTTEST POLITICAL DEBATES IN THE COUNTRY AND IT HAS BEEN THAT WAY FOR SOME TIME. IS IT POSSIBLE TO FIND COMMON GROUND ON POLICIES THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR GUN OWNERSHIP AND KEEP GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HURT THEMSELVES OR OTHERS?

THIS MONTH WE'RE LOOKING AT GUN OWNERSHIP FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES. WE'LL HEAR FROM CURRENT AND FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT, GUN OWNERS, VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS. IF YOU WANT TO SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON GUN OWNERSHIP AND THE NATIONAL DEBATE OVER GUN CONTROL, GET IN TOUCH WITH US AT NEWMEXICOINFOCUS.ORG OR FIND US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER. CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND SAT DOWN WITH GUN OWNERS AND ADVOCATE FOR INCREASED CONTROL TO GET THEIR TAKE ON WHAT THE DEBATE OVER GUN OWNERSHIP LOOKS >> MY GUESTS TODAY ARE DAWN AMDOR, FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR AND FACILITATOR OF WOMEN'S SHOOTING LEAGUE; OWEN BROWN, A TEACHER AT HEALTH LEADERSHIP HOME SCHOOL AND MIRANDA VISCOLI IS WITH NEW MEXICANS TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING WITH US. >> I WANT TO START WITH YOU, YOU GREW UP IN A RURAL PART OF NEW MEXICO. AND GUNS WERE A PART OF EVERYDAY LIFE FOR YOU AND YOUR NEIGHBORS AND FAMILY. DESCRIBE TO ME THE SCENE IN THE

PARKING LOT OF YOUR HIGH SCHOOL. >> GRADUATED IN 2001, TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF MY AGE. SHOTGUNS IN EVERY RACK. IN THE TRUCK; GUNS IN THE PARKING LOT WERE NOT AN UNUSUAL OCCURRENCE. >> IS THAT WHAT IT IS LIKE AT YOUR SCHOOL NOW? >> I WOULD SAY THERE IS PROBABLY SOME BUT THERE IS DEFINITELY NOT ANY VISIBLE IN THE RACK, SHOTGUNS, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW. I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL PRE-COLUMBINE. THAT IS THE DIVIDING LINE THERE. THERE HAS DEFINITELY BEEN CHANGE IN POLICY SINCE THEN. >> WAS IT A CHANGE FOR YOU WHEN YOU MOVED FROM EASTERN NEW MEXICO TO ALBUQUERQUE AND YOU WERE BURGLARIZED WHEN YOU MOVED HERE. >> I WAS, YEAH, A COUPLE OF YEARS AFTER I MOVED HERE. YOU KNOW, GROWING UP I ONLY KNEW

ONE PERSON WHO OWNED A PROPER GUN SAFE. THE MAN HAD AN EXPENSIVE COLLECTION OF FIREARMS AND WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MORE AFFLUENT MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY AND EVERYONE ELSE JUST PUT THEM IN A CLOSET, YOU KNOW, UP HIGH. AND YOU STORED THE AMMO ELSEWHERE. AND IF YOU WERE FANCY, YOU HAD A BOOK SHELF WITH A BUILT IN GLASS DISPLAY CASE, YOU KNOW. AND, SO I DIDN'T THINK ANYTHING OF IT UNTIL I LIVED IN NOB HILL AND MY HOUSE WAS BURGLARIZED AND I PROBABLY LOST 3,000, $4,000 WORTH OF FIREARMS. >> IT IS A LOT OF MONEY, RIGHT? BUT MIRANDA WHAT ARE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT GUNS BEING STOLEN. >> LOCK THEM UP. I MEAN, WE HAVE -- AND ESPECIALLY THE AMOUNT OF GUNS STOLEN IN NEW MEXICO IN AUTOMOBILES, YOU HAVE TO LOOK UP YOUR FIREARMS. IT IS NOT JUST PEOPLE ARE STEALING THEM TO BE DOING ANYTHING GOOD WITH THEM, RIGHT. WE PROMOTE LOCKING UP GUNS, ESPECIALLY WITH CHILDREN

IN THE HOMES AND WITH SUICIDAL KIDS. WE HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH TEENAGE SUICIDE IN THIS STATE, SUICIDE. ALMOST HALF OF THEM ARE DONE WITH A FIREARM. WE REALLY BELIEVE YOU SHOULD LOCK UP YOUR GUNS. NEW MEXICAN AGAINST GUN VIOLENCE, WE TRAVEL THE STATE AND GIVE OUR FREEDOM LOCKS. WE WERE JUST AT THE JICARILLA TRIBE, RIO ARRIBA HEALTH FAIR, WE'LL BE AT PLACITAS NEXT WEEK HANDING OUT FREE GUN LOCKS WHICH WE ARE PAYING FROM OUR OWN BANK ACCOUNT AND EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL ON THE IMPORTANCE OF KEEPING GUNS LOCKED UP. >> AFTER THAT, YOU CHANGED THE WAY YOU KEEP A GUN. >> YEAH, DIDN'T TOTALLY CLEAR ME OUT SO I WENT AND BOUGHT A GUN SAFE AND I HAVE BEEN MOVING THAT THING AROUND. THAT WAS 10 YEARS AGO, WHEN I WAS BURGLARIZED SO ALL MY GUNS HAVE BEEN LOCKED UP SINCE. I HAD CHILDREN IN BETWEEN NOW AND THEN, SO, THE IMPORTANCE OF LOCKING THEM UP DEFINITELY INCREASED. >> DAWN, IN SOME PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, THIS ISN'T REQUIRED HERE BUT IN SOME PLACES THERE

ARE LAWS REQUIRING THAT GUNS ARE LOCKED UP, EITHER THAT A LOCK BE PUT ON EACH GUN LIKE THESE FOLKS ARE PASSING OUT OR THAT THEY ARE KEPT IN SAFES LIKE OWEN DOES. THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS DOES THIS, FOR EXAMPLE. AND SOME PROPOSALS ARE CONSIDERED IN COMMUNITIES ELSEWHERE. DO YOU THINK IT IS REASONABLE TO REQUIRE THAT GUN OWNERS ALWAYS LOCK UP THEIR GUNS ALL THE TIME? >> I DON'T FEEL PERSONALLY THAT IT IS A REASONABLE REQUEST. I APPLAUD THE EFFORTS THAT MIRANDA AND HER GROUP ARE DOING IN EDUCATING PEOPLE IN THE SAFE STORAGE OF FIREARMS. BUT AS FAR AS MY PERSONAL SO I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THEY ARE, HOW THEY ARE TO BE ACCESSED, AND IN WHAT CONDITION ARE THEY STORED? FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO COME IN AND TELL ME EXACTLY HOW TO DO THAT I DON'T THINK IS APPROPRIATE. AS AN INSTRUCTOR AND COMPETITIVE SHOOTER, I KNOW MORE ABOUT MY GUNS THAN ANYONE COULD COME IN

AND TELL ME PROBABLY IN MY HOUSE. >> SO, I MEAN, I WANT TO ASK YOU WHERE YOU KEEP THEM BUT I IMAGINE YOU DON'T WANT TO TELL ME. >> EXACTLY. >> BUT THEY ARE NOT ALL LOCKED UP. >> THEY ARE ALL SECURED. WE DO HAVE CHILDREN AND I THINK THAT PEOPLE NEED TO BE EDUCATED AND UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCES IN STORING THEIR GUNS. IF YOU HAVE CHILDREN OR TEENAGERS THAT COME OVER TO YOUR HOUSE THAT ARE NOT YOURS, THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF STORAGE IS VARIED SO, YES, OUR GUNS ARE ALL SECURED. >> WHAT DOES SECURED MEAN TO YOU? >> SECURED FOR US MEANS THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT WILL ACCESS THOSE PARTICULAR FIREARMS ARE MY HUSBAND OR MYSELF. >> WHAT ARE SOME OF THE TECHNIQUES THAT YOU USE TO SECURE. >> WE USE BIOMETRIC SAFES. WE USE LARGE DEAD BOLT TYPE SAFES SO IT DEPENDS ON THE TYPE OF GUN WE ARE STORING. IF IT IS A HUNTING RIFLE, WE OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT GOING TO STORE THAT IN A CONDITION THAT IS READY TO GO BECAUSE WE'RE NOT

HUNTING. IF IT IS A SELF DEFENSE FIREARM, WE MIGHT STORE THAT IN A DIFFERENT CONDITION. BUT, I WANT TO STRESS THE IMPORTANCE OF EDUCATING OUR CHILD OR CHILDREN HAVE BEEN EDUCATE ABOUT FIREARMS FROM THE TIME THAT THEY WERE YOUNG AND I THINK THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND I THINK SOMETIMES IS A SCARY CONVERSATION FOR PARENTS TO HAVE WITH THEIR CHILDREN. SO, THERE ARE RESOURCES OUT THERE THAT WILL GET YOU THE INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED IN ORDER TO DO THAT. >> MIRANDA, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE -- OWEN IS MY AGE, WERE IN SCHOOL WHEN THE COLUMBINE SHOOTING HAPPENED. THESE YOUNG MEN, THEY WERE ABLE TO BUY GUNS BECAUSE OF A LOOP HOLE IN THE SYSTEM THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE THE SAME KIND OF BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR GUN SHOWS THAT ARE REQUIRED AT GUN STORES. IS THAT RIGHT. >> RIGHT. SO BASICALLY THE LEGISLATION WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON FOR SOME TIME IS CLOSING THE GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE. RIGHT NOW A DOMESTIC FELON, A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OFFENDER, TEENAGER CAN GO INTO A GUN

SHOW AND BUY A FIREARM, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN. THERE ARE FOLKS WALKING UP AND DOWN THE AISLE WITH RIFLES THAT SAY $400 CASH RIGHT HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE. WE HAVE TO REALLY GO AFTER ONLINE SALES. IF YOU WENT TO ARMS LIST, WHAT IS FOR SALE TODAY IN ALBUQUERQUE? THERE IS A LOT OF PRIVATE SELLERS WHERE YOU CAN GO TO BUY A FIREARM. YOU GO TO THE PARKING LOT AND YOU BUY THAT FIREARM. WE ARE VERY MUCH FOR UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS. WHEN I COMES TO CHILDREN AND GUNS, CHILD ACCESS PREVENTION LAWS DO WORK. BASICALLY WHAT IT SAYS IS, IF YOU HAVE A FIREARM IN YOUR HOUSE AND THAT CHILD GETS HOLD OF THAT FIREARM, HURTS THEMSELVES OR SOMEBODY ELSE, THAT THE PARENTS ARE LIABLE. YOU ARE AN EXTREMELY RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER. IF EVERYBODY WAS LIKE YOU, I COULD RETIRE. I WOULDN'T HAVE TO DO THIS ANYMORE. WE NEED 100,000 MORE OF YOU, BUT, WHAT THIS DOES IS IT EDUCATES THOSE PARENTS WHO AREN'T THINKING THAT A CHILD

CAN GET A HOLD OF A FIREARM AND DIANE YOUNG DID A GREAT SERIES CALLED YOUNG GUNS, AND THEY HAD KIDS THAT WERE TAUGHT OVER AND OVER, SINCE DAY ONE, DON'T TOUCH THE FIREARMS. AND, YOU HAD PARENTS WHOSE KIDS ARE NO LONGER WITH THEM AND THEY SAID WE HAVE BEEN TELLING THIS KID, ESPECIALLY THE FIVE YEAR OLD. >> YOU CAN'T TEACH CURIOSITY OUT OF A 5 YEAR OLD. WE EXPECTS TOO MUCH ON KIDS AND IT REALLY NEEDS TO BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PARENTS. >> I WANT TO GO BACK TO GUN SHOWS FOR A MINUTE. I HAVE BEEN TO A GUN SHOW AT THE STATE FAIR. I THOUGHT IT WAS COOL. I GOT TO SEE LITTLE DERRINGERS AND MUSKETS AND WEIRD THINGS YOU ONLY SEE ON TV. OWEN, HAVE YOU BOUGHT GUNS AT A GUN SHOW? >> YEAH, AND THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF SALES AT A GUN SHOW. FEDERAL FIREARM LICENSE, JUST LIKE IN A STORE, SO, THE GUN THEY TAKE SOME OF THE INVENTORY, GO THERE, AND THEY RUN A BACKGROUND CHECK.

WHAT YOU'RE REFERENCING ARE PRIVATE SALES. IF I DECIDE I WANT TO SELL A GUN TO DAWN AND DAWN DECIDES TO BUY IT, THERE IS NO BACKGROUND CHECK THERE. >> IS IT UNREASONABLE TO ASK THAT ALL OF THESE SALES ARE EQUAL; THAT ALL OF THE GUN SALES GO THROUGH SOME SORT OF BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM? >> I AM NOT SURE UNREASONABLE IS THE WORD BUT IS THAT POSSIBLE. AS A PRIVATE SELLER, IF I WERE TO SELL ONE OF MY FIREARMS, I JUST ANY INDIVIDUAL OFF THE STREET. ALSO, THE INDIVIDUAL OFF THE STREET WHO IS LOOKING FOR THAT FIREARM, IF THEY GO TO -- IF WE MOVE TO A COMPLETE BACKGROUND CHECK FOR EVERY GUN SALE, ID THEY REALLY WANT THAT FIREARM, I FULLY BELIEVE THEY'LL FIND IT, WHETHER THEY GO TO OWEN'S HOUSE AND STEAL IT OR BUY IT IN THE BACK STREET SOMEPLACE IN THE TOWN OF ALBUQUERQUE. >> NOW, AFTER SANDY HOOK, SHOOTINGS AT SANDY HOOK IN

CONNECTICUT. THE PUBLIC REACTED TO THAT IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS. SOME PEOPLE SAID WE NEED TO CRACK DOWN ON GUNS, LOCK THEM UP, WE NEED TO MAKE THEM HARDER TO GET. >> WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT GOOD GUYS WITH GUNS CARRY THEM TO SCHOOLS IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENS AND THEY ARE THERE. >> MIRANDA, YOU SUPPORT GUNS FREE SCHOOL. WHY? >> I DO NOT THINK IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF A TEACHER TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO IF AN ARMED PERSON COMES INTO THE RESPONSIBILITY WITH FIREARM TO PROTECT THOSE CHILDREN. THAT IS NOT WHAT A KINDERGARTEN TEACHER WANTS TO DO AND IT DOESN'T MAKE OUR SCHOOLS SAFER. WE HAVE SEEN TEACHERS THAT HAVE BEEN BRINGING FIREARMS TO SCHOOL. A TEACHER SHOT HERSELF IN THE FOOT IN A BATHROOM STALL. I MEAN, THE AMOUNT OF TRAINING THIS WOULD TAKE TO PROTECT THOSE STUDENTS AND YOU REALLY HAVE TO ASK, WHY HAVEN'T WE GOTTEN THERE? >> SOME OF THEM ARE WELL TRAINED. OWEN, YOU STARTED SHOOTING IN 4H, AS A LITTLE KID.

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? WOULD YOU LIKE TO CARRY A GUN IN YOUR SCHOOL IN ORDER TO PROTECT IT FROM AN EMERGENCY. >> I NEVER LIKED THE IDEA OF HAVING TO CARRY A GUN TO PROTECT MYSELF. BUT, PERSONALLY IT WOULD NOT BOTHER ME IF I CARRIED A GUN. I DO SHOOT OFTEN, I HAVE A CARRY PERMIT, LOTS OF TRAINING. I HAVE MET SOME TEACHERS THAT WOULD NOT LIKE TO CARRY GUNS AT ALL. AND I DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS ANY SORT OF DECIDING LINE, WELL, THEY ARE WEIRD SO YOU DON'T GET TO DO THAT. IT IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. IF YOU OPEN IT UP, HOW DO YOU DECIDE. >> IT'S NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT IN SCHOOLS. >> WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WAYS TO CHANGE. I WANT TO WRAP UP WITH THREE QUICK QUESTIONS. DAWN, STAYING ON THE SUBJECT OF

KIDS, THE THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH FOR CHILDREN IN NEW MEXICO IS HOMICIDE AND NEARLY 75% OF THOSE KIDS ARE SHOT. WHAT SHOULD WE DO TO PREVENT SO MANY CHILDREN FROM BEING KILLED WITH GUNS IN NEW MEXICO? >> I THINK YOU HAVE GOT TO STRESS THE EDUCATION OF THE ADULTS WHO OWN THESE FIREARMS. YOU HAVE GOT TO STRESS THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE. IT IS A LIFE-STYLE TO OWN A FIREARM IN ANYPLACE. AND SO, IF THAT IS YOUR LIFE-STYLE, THEN YOU NEED TO BE ADEQUATELY PREPARED AND YOU NEED TO GET ADEQUATE TRAINING IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. >> MIRANDA, NEW MEXICO'S GUN DEATH RATE IS 40% HIGHER THAN THE U.S. AVERAGE. HOW CAN WE TURN THAT AROUND? >> SEVERAL WAYS. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT SUICIDE, THE LEADING CAUSE. AND ALSO WE BOAST SOME OF THE WEAKEST GUN LAWS IN THE COUNTRY. WE HEAR OVER AND OVER, DON'T PASS MORE GUN LAWS, ENFORCE WHAT WE HAVE. WE DON'T HAVE ANY. AND WE NOW ACTUALLY HAVE EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT

STATES WITH HIGHER, MORE STRICT GUN LAWS ACTUALLY HAVE LESS GUN VIOLENCE. SO WE NEED TO DO SIMPLE THINGS LIKE THE FACT THAT A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OFFENDER, UNDER A RESTRAINING ORDER, CAN KEEP THEIR FIREARM. GET RID OF THAT. 2/3 OF OUR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOMICIDE DEATHS ARE WITH A FIREARM. THAT IS ONE THING WE CAN QUICKLY DO. WE NEED UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS. WE ARE BEHIND CHILD ACCESS PREVENTION. >> I WANT TO COME BACK TO YOU WITH TEENAGERS. MIRANDA MENTIONED THE SECOND LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN NEW MEXICO IS SUICIDE. WHAT DO YOU THINK WE CAN DO TO PREVENT TEEN SUICIDES, IN PARTICULAR THAT HAPPEN WITH GUNS? >> WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT IS A TWO-PRONGED APPROACHED. YOU HAVE THE PARENTS. YOU KNOW, IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY SO SECURE THAT FIREARM TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR CHILD, NO MATTER THEIR EMOTIONAL CONDITION, CAN'T ACCESS IT WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION. AND ON TOP OF THAT, I TAUGHT

AT WEST MESA HIGH SCHOOL FOR FIVE YEARS. THEY HAD A PHENOMENAL INTERVENTION PROGRAM IN PLACE AND IT WAS UNIQUE TO THAT HIGH SCHOOL IN THE DISTRICT. IF YOU HAD ANY SORT OF SITUATION WHERE YOU THOUGHT A CHILD WAS HURTING THEMSELVES OR GOING TO, YOU STOPPED EVERYTHING AND TOOK THEM TO A SPECIFIC SOCIAL WORKER. THEY DID AN ASSESSMENT. PARENTS HAD TO COME GET THEM. AND TAKE THEM FOR A PROFESSIONAL EVALUATION. WHICH LED TO OFTENTIMES SERVICES THAT WERE IN A PROLONGED TIME SETTING. >> WELL, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US TODAY AND TALKING ABOUT RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP AND THE MANY TENETS OF IT. >> WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE. THE ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCIL IS CONSIDERING A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN FUNDING FOR THE NEXT MAYOR'S RACE. THE PROPOSAL IS TO PROVIDE 630,000 FOR EACH CANDIDATE THAT QUALIFIES FOR PUBLIC FINANCING, THAT IS IMPORTANT. IN THE LAST ELECTION ONLY ABOUT

362,000 WAS AVAILABLE TO EACH CANDIDATE. NEXT MAYOR'S RACE WILL BE NEXT YEAR AND EDDY, THIS WAS A DESIGN, I AM GOING TO GUESS, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PARITY HERE, THE IDEA THAT THE LAST MAYOR'S RACE, MAYOR BERRY SPENT -- HE DID NOT TAKE PUBLIC FINANCING, BUT HE HAD 850,000 TO WORK WITH, VERSUS PETE DINELLI AND PAUL HAYES, 360. THAT IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. DOES THIS HELP CLOSE THAT GAP, DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU TO CLOSE THAT ACCOUNTABILITY. >> ABSOLUTELY. WHAT THEY ARE ASKING FOR IS GOING FRO A DOLLAR TO 1.75 PER VOTER, RIGHT? BASED ON THE PREVIOUS TURNOUT SO IT CERTAINLY NEEDS TO BE MORE COMPETITIVE. PETE DINELLI GOT BLOWN OUT, HE ONLY HAD 340 OF THAT 362,000. THE AMOUNT OR THE PROPORTION OF THE CASH RAISED BY MAYOR BERRY, WHICH HAD A MUCH LONGER TIME LINE, VERSUS PETE DINELLI, WHICH WAS MUCH SHORTER. AND TO BE HONEST, I AGREE WITH MORE MAYOR BERRY'S POLICY THAN I DO PETE DINELLI. IT WAS A FAIR RACE. 19% TURNOUT. THE MEDIA THAT GOT OUT THERE,

I MEAN, THE GUY DID NOT HAVE A CHANCE. HE RAISED ALL THESE SIGNATURES, SO, I THINK WHAT THIS WOULD DO, AND I HOPE THE CITY COUNCIL MAKES IT HAPPEN, IS IT IS GOING TO MAKE A MORE COMPETITIVE RACE. MANY PEOPLE POSSIBLY DIDN'T TURN OUT BECAUSE THEY KNEW IT WASN'T THAT COMPETITIVE. DINELLI WAS COMPLETELY INVISIBLE, AND THE SAME PROPORTION OF CASH THAT WAS RAISED FROM BOTH DINELLI TO MAYOR BERRY, WAS THE SAME PROPORTION. MONEY MATTERS IN POLITICS. IT CAN'T JUST BE A BLUE CHIPPER'S GAME. >> WELL SAID. TAKE ABOUT A MINUTE TO TAKE US BACK IN TIME A LITTLE BIT. HOW THIS ALL STARTED. WHAT WAS THE IDEA BETWEEN PUBLIC FINANCING IN THE FIRST PLACE. DID WE SOLVE A PROBLEM THAT NEEDED TO BE SOLVED? WHERE ARE WE WITH THIS? >> IT IS VERY INTERESTING. THE VOTERS IN ALBUQUERQUE BACK IN 2005 PASSED THE PUBLIC; IT WAS A BIG WIN AND EVERYBODY WAS TAKING IT, REPUBLICANS, DEMOCRATS, MAYOR BERRY TOOK IT HIS FIRST TIME AROUND. REPUBLICANS USED IT SEVERAL

TIMES, SO IT WASN'T A PARTISAN ISSUE. AND WHAT HAPPENED UNDER OLD SYSTEM, IS YOU GOT A DOLLAR PER REGISTERED VOTER IF YOU QUALIFIED. YOU HAD TO RAISE SIGNATURES AND $5 CONTRIBUTIONS, AND THEN LET'S SAY YOU HAD A PRIVATELY FINANCED CANDIDATE IN YOUR RACE WHO OUTSPENT YOU, LIKE WE JUST SAID WITH MAYOR BERRY AND PETE DINELLI. THE OLD SYSTEM WOULD TRIGGER MORE FUNDS TO THAT PUBLIC FINANCED CANDIDATE. WE HAVE HAD A COUPLE COURT CASES. CITIZENS UNITED IN 2010 WHICH EQUATED MONEY WITH SPEECH, FOLLOWED UP BY A SECOND COURT CASE CALLED THE ARIZONA FREE ENTERPRISE CASE, WHICH AFFIRMED PUBLIC FINANCING AND SAY IT IS TOTALLY CONSTITUTIONAL EXCEPT FOR THE MATCHING FUND PART. THINK ABOUT IT, IF YOU'RE A PRIVATELY FINANCED CANDIDATE, YOU'RE TAKING IN ALL THIS CONTRIBUTION FOR SPEECH. WHY WOULD YOU GIVE FREE SPEECH TO THIS OTHER GUY? SO, FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW, PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY HAVE

BEEN WORKING ON WAYS TO FIX IT, DOING A MATCHING SYSTEM POSSIBLY IN SOME PLACES WHERE THE PUBLICALLY FINANCED CANDIDATE CAN RAISE SMALL AMOUNTS OF MONEY THAT WOULD BE MATCHED BY THE FUN. SO WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS AT COMMON CAUSE AND SO THIS IS THE PROPOSAL THAT DON HARRIS, THE REPUBLICAN, PAT DAVIS IS A DEMOCRAT, HAVE COME TOGETHER. AND I JUST, YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT GOING TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THE CITY PUTS INTO THE PROGRAM. IT IS ALREADY CAPPED AT A CERTAIN AMOUNT. SO IT IS NOT GOING TO EXPAND IT, IT IS NOT GOING TO COST MORE MONEY. IT IS JUST GOING TO FIX IT AND IT IS JUST ONE PIECE OF THE PUZZLE. PUBLIC FINANCING ISN'T GOING TO FIX EVERYTHING BECAUSE WE CAN'T STOP THE PAC BUT IT IS ONE PIECE OF THE PUZZLE TO MAKE IT A MORE EVEN PLAYING FIELD, WHICH IS KIND OF FUNNY BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT HAS SPECIFICALLY SAID, PUBLIC FINANCING CAN'T BE TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD. OF COURSE WE KNOW HOW CRAZY THE SUPREME COURT IS. >> MY NEXT QUESTION, INTERESTINGLY WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, ALL RIGHT MAYOR BERRY, THERE COULD BE ANOTHER MAYOR

BERRY WHO CHOOSES NOT TO DO THIS. LET'S SAY HE RAISES A MILLION FIVE, DECIDES THIS RACE IS WORTH A MILLION FIVE AND HIS SUPPORTERS DECIDE IT IS WORTH A MILLION FIVE. WE ARE NO CLOSER AS A PERCENTAGE NOW SUDDENLY. YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN? SUDDENLY, IT IS KIND OF A PIPE OUT FINANCIALLY. >> DEFINITELY. WE LOOK BACK AT THE LAST MAYORAL RACE. IT WAS TRULY SET UP TO BE A WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEWHERE IN THE BALL PARK OF A $350,000, CAMPAIGN, VERSUS AN 850,000 OR MORE CAMPAIGN. IT IS NOT COMPARABLE. WHAT IT DOES SHOW IS THAT WE ARE AT A DIFFERENT PLACE RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE AISLE. WE HAVE DEMOCRAT COUNCILOR PAT DAVIS AND REPUBLICAN DON HARRIS WORKING TOGETHER ACROSS THE AISLE TO ATTEMPT TO GET SOME MONEY OUT OF POLITICS IN THE CITY ALBUQUERQUE. AS A COUNTRY, WE MIGHT STILL NEED MORE WORK TO GET RID OF CITIZENS UNITED, BUT AT LEAST WITH THIS SHOW, HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, WE ARE READY TO START ADDRESSING THIS AND GET MONEY OUT OF POLITICS BECAUSE WE NEED TO. IT IS MORE IMPORTANT FOR THE

VOTERS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT CANDIDATES STAND FOR AND WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO FIGHT FOR AND CHANGE IN OUR COMMUNITY, AS OPPOSED ABOUT HEARING THE NEXT QUARTERLY CAMPAIGN BUDGET. >> ON THAT POINT, MOST OF THAT MONEY COMES FROM OUTSIDE. MAYOR BERRY WAS NOT GEOGRAPHICALLY RESTRICTED IN TERMS OF WHERE HE COULD TAKE IT. HE COULD TAKE THE MONEY ALL HE WANTED TO. PETE DINELLI COULDN'T EVEN DO AN ELECTRONIC TRANSACTION. THEY NEED TO IMPLEMENT THAT PORTION IN ORDER FOR THEM -- I MEAN HOW MANY PEOPLE DO WE KNOW HAVE $5 IN THEIR POCKET. >> IT IS A VERY GOOD POINT. TOM, I AM STILL ON THE IDEA OF COMPARING MONEY AND WHAT IT DOES FOR YOU AND IT SEEMS TO ME IF YOU HAD 850 TO SPEND IN THIS MARKETPLACE, UNLESS YOU REALLY SCREW IT UP, THAT IS A HUGE ADVANTAGE, A MAJOR ADVANTAGE. SO I GO BACK TO MY QUESTION WITH MARSHA. WHAT HAPPENS IF THE NEXT PERSON DECIDES A MILLION TWO OR A MILLION FIVE IS GOING TO GET IT DONE. IS THERE ANYTHING THAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THAT. THAT ENCOURAGES WHAT WE SAID EARLIER, THE BLUE CHIP APPROACH, GOING TO BIG MONEY, BIG DONORS AND SAY I NEED YOUR HIP. YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL WHAT YOU CONTROL.

IF A CANDIDATE GOES IN AND THEY KNOW THEY HAVE 630,000 GOOD STUFF AS FAR AS REACHING THE ALBUQUERQUE SPECIFIC TARGET MARKETS WITH THAT AMOUNT. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE HAVE'S AND HAVE NOT'S, OH, MY GOSH, THAT PERSON IS RAISING 1.3 OR 2 OR 5 MILLION. IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE SEEING THROUGH MEDIA, THROUGH GRASS ROOTS CAMPAIGNS, THAT YOU DON'T NEED TO SPEND FIVE MILLION DOLLARS. IT HELPS, BUT WITH 630,000, YOU CAN RUN AN EFFECTIVE CAMPAIGN. IT IS ALL ABOUT MAKING SURE YOUR BASE GETS OUT. IF YOU GET $630,000 TO GET YOUR BASE OUT, YOU BREAK THAT DOWN WITH THE NUMBER OF VOTERS SHOWING UP TO THE MAYORAL ELECTIONS, YOU CAN MAKE GREAT IMPACT. YOU WON'T WIN CLASS PRESIDENT BUT YOU WILL WIN A CITY COUNCIL STEAT. >> YOU MENTIONED SORT OF IN PASSING, PART OF THE STRATEGY IS MEDIA AND OTHER TYPES OF MEDIA THAT GET OUT THERE. IS THIS SOCIALLY CONNECTED WORLD, DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE? AM I LOOKING A THIS FROM AN OLD POINT OF VIEW.

>> I THINK THE TRADITIONAL RULES REALLY BLANKETING BILLBOARDS, BROADCAST ADVERTISING, IT IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS WE HAVE SEEN HERE IN NEW MEXICO. IT IS THE EXPLOSION AND PERSISTENCE, CONSISTENCY OF SOCIAL DIGITAL MEDIA IN MARKETPLACE DISPLACING -- NO OFFENSE TO EVERYONE AT THE TABLE, INCLUDED KNME -- BUT IT IS DISPLACING THE WHOLE MEDIA MARKETPLACE. SO THAT IS AN AREA. BUT IT IS JUST ONE PART OF THE EQUATION. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE CAMPAIGN TO TALK TO YOUR BASE AND MOTIVATE THEM. >> THAT IS WHAT PUBLIC FINANCING ALLOWS PEOPLE TO DO. YOU'RE NOT SPENDING YOUR TIME RAISING MONEY ALL DAY LONG. YOU'RE OUT TALKING TO VOTERS, GETTING THEIR SIGNATURES, ASKING FOR A $5 CONTRIBUTION. >> OR TWO YEARS RAISING MONEY. >> I MEAN, WE HAVE SEEN IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND OUR CONGRESS LITERALLY SPENDS FIVE HOURS A DAY DIALING FOR DOLLARS. >> GOTTA RUN. THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE. I AM GENE GRANT.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK AND JOIN US LIVE ON TUESDAY, JUNE 7, FOR COVERAGE OF THE NEW MEXICO PRIMARY ELECTIONS. NEW MEXICO PBS IS PARTNERING WITH KUNM ON ELECTION NIGHT COVERAGE. TUNE IN ONLINE FOR OUR LIVE STREAM BEGINNING AT 7:00 IN THE EVENING AND ON CHANNEL 9.1 FROM 9:00 TO 10:00 THAT NIGHT. FIND MORE DETAILS ONLINE AT NEWMEXICOINFOCUS.ORG. WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORT TO STAY INFORMED AND ENGAGED. >> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO

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