New Mexico in Focus; 1005; A.R.T. Pros and Cons, RNC delegates

FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO InFOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION. AND THE NELITTA E. WALKER FUND FOR KNME-TV. THE KNME-TV ENDOWMENT FUND. AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU. >> THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS ... WE TAKE A DEEP DIVE INTO THE ISSUES BEHIND A CONTROVERSIAL RAPID TRANSIT PROJECT IN ALBUQUERQUE. >> IT DOESN'T JUST EFFECT NOB HILL, IT DOESN'T JUST EFFECT CENTRAL, BUT IT DOES EFFECT THE ENTIRE CITY. >> AND, WE GET LOCAL TAKES ON THE DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTIONS. NEW MEXICO InFOCUS STARTS NOW. >> THANKS FOR JOINING US ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. LATER THIS HOUR, I DISCUSS THIS WEEK'S DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION WITH OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS, AND WE'LL HEAR FROM TWO NEW MEXICO DELEGATES FROM LAST WEEK'S REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION. BUT THIS WEEK, WE START WITH A PROPOSED ALBUQUERQUE RAPID

TRANSIT LINE OR A.R.T., ALSO SOMETIMES CALLED BUS RAPID TRANSIT OR B.R.T. IT HAS BEEN A SUBJECT OF FIERCE DEBATE FOR MONTHS. THE CITY RECEIVED A FEDERAL GRANT TO BUILD A RAPID TRANSIT SYSTEM DOWN CENTRAL AVENUE, BUT THE PROJECT FACES FIERCE OPPOSITION FROM SOME LANDLORDS AND BUSINESS OWNERS ALONG THAT PROPOSED ADVOCATES SAY THE PROJECT WILL BRING MORE BUSINESS ACTIVITY TO CENTRAL AVENUE, BUT OPPONENTS ARGUE IT WILL INCREASE TRAFFIC CONGESTION AND DRIVE OUT LOCAL BUSINESSES THAT ARE ALREADY STRUGGLING TO SURVIVE. AS WE TAPE THIS WEEK, A FEDERAL JUDGE WAS HEARING ARGUMENTS IN THE LAWSUIT THAT AIMS TO STOP THE PROJECT FROM MOVING FORWARD. IN A FEW MINUTES, CORRESPONDENT MEGAN KAMERICK SITS DOWN WITH MICHAEL RIORDAN, HE'S THE CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER FOR THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE, AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE DEBATE OVER NOW, WE ALSO WENT OUT TO SEE THE PROPOSED AREA WHERE THE LINE WOULD RUN AND TALKED TO SOME LOCAL BUSINESS OWNERS. >> ALBUQUERQUE'S HISTORIC CENTRAL AVENUE IS THE HEART ART DECO DEFINED THE FIRST

TRANSFORMATION IN THE 1940s, BUT A NEW ART FORM WILL DEFINE THE SECOND TRANSFORMATION. THIS ART IS SLEEK, MODERN AND CLEAN, AND IT'S GOING TO CONNECT THE BEST OF THE PAST WITH THE BEST OF THE FUTURE. WHAT IS THIS ART FORM? IT'S ALBUQUERQUE RAPID TRANSIT, AND IT'S COMING TO CENTRAL AVENUE IN THE FALL >> FOR US, WE'RE NOT SURE OF WHAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO GOES THROUGH, WE'LL BE PUT OUT OF BUSINESS. SO WE WANT TO TRY TO STOP THE FUNDING FOR ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH AN A.R.T. PROJECT THAT INVOLVES CREATING FOUR LANES OF BUSES FIRST STEP, AND ONCE WE SEE HOW WELL THE ELECTRIC BUSES

WORK AND HOW WELL THIS TYPE OF TRANSIT LINE WORKS, THEN WE CAN TOTALLY EXPAND WITH THE NORTH AND SOUTH LINES, WE CAN TOTALLY EXPAND IN CONNECTING THAT TO RAILRUNNER OR OTHER ITEMS. IT'S ALL ABOUT GROWTH. THE BIG THING THAT I'VE DONE IS, I WANTED TO GET PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND, JUST LIKE WITH VOTING, I VOTE WITH MY MONEY, SO I SET UP A WEBSITE WHICH IS NoARTNoMe.com, AND IT'S JUST A SIMPLE PLEDGE THAT IF A STORE HAS A STOP A.R.T. SIGN UP, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SPEND YOUR MONEY THERE, JUST LIKE I'M NOT GOING TO SPEND MY MONEY THERE. >> IT JUST DOESN'T EFFECT ME, IT JUST DOESN'T EFFECT MY STORE, IT JUST DOESN'T EFFECT NOB HILL, IT DOESN'T JUST EFFECT CENTRAL, BUT IT DOES EFFECT THE ENTIRE CITY. >> MICHAEL REARDON, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME. IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE REPRESENTING THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE. >> SO MICHAEL, THERE'S A TREMENDOUS PUSH-BACK RIGHT NOW FROM SOME QUARTERS

AROUND A.R.T., THE TRANSIT PROJECT, AND PEOPLE HAVE SOME REAL CONCERNS. AS WE TAPE, A JUDGE IS HEARING A LAWSUIT THAT SEEKS PROJECT. I THINK PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW WHY IS THE CITY PURSUING A PRETTY AGGRESSIVE CONSTRUCTION SCHEDULE ON THIS. >> FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO SAY, IT IS A VOCAL MINORITY THAT SEEMS TO BE OPPOSED TO THE PROJECT. THEY ARE WELL FUNDED, SO THEY DO HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF HIGH-PROFILE BUT WE HAVE OVER 4000 SIGNATURES OF PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT THE PROJECT, THE TOP TEN OF WHO'S WHO OF THE GREATER CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, THE HISPANO CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, THE REALTORS ASSOCIATION, PEOPLE THAT REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT A B.R.T. SYSTEM IS FOR THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE. SO WHILE THERE IS SOME NEGATIVE, AND I'VE NEVER BUILT A PROJECT WITHOUT OPPOSITION, WE HAVE A STRONG BASE OF SUPPORT, AS WELL. >> ALTHOUGH IN A RECENT POLL, LIKE 80% OF THE SURVEY RESPONDENTS WERE INTERESTED IN HAVING THIS GO TO A VOTE. >> RIGHT. IT WAS A POLL THAT WAS DONE ON A HOLIDAY WEEKEND WITH LAND LINES ONLY. SO THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY

THE DEMOGRAPHIC THAT'S GOING TO SUPPORT A.R.T. IT WAS A VERY LIMITED POLL. PEOPLE, AND THEY USED 400 OF THAT, WHICH WASN'T DEMONSTRATIVE OF OUR POPULATION. WHILE WE'LL ACCEPT EVERY POLL AND LOOK AT IT AND NOT DISMISS IT, IT REALLY WASN'T A GOOD CROSS-SECTION OF OUR COMMUNITY AND THE SUPPORT THAT THE PROJECT HAS. >> WHY DOES THE CITY THINK THIS PROJECT NOW IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO? WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO YOU ALL? >> IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME COMING. THE FIRST TIME THAT WE LOOKED AT THIS WAS IN THE LATE 1990s TO 2002, THAT TIMEFRAME, WHERE IT WAS DETERMINED THAT CENTRAL AVENUE WAS THE MASS TRANSIT CORRIDOR FOR THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE. THAT WAS GOING TO BE THE SPINE OF OUR NETWORK. AND THAT WAS FIGURED OUT BY MANY ADMINISTRATIONS AGO, MANY CITY COUNCILS AGO THAT THAT WAS IMPORTANT. THE FIRST REACTION TO THAT WAS ADDING RAPID RIDE TO CENTRAL AVENUE, AND THAT HAD ITS OPPOSITION. YOU ALREADY HAVE A LOCAL ROUTE ON 66, WHAT DO YOU NEED A RAPID RIDE FOR? WELL, WHEN THAT WENT IN, WE SAW RIDERSHIP DOUBLE WITHIN THE FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS OF HAVING A RAPID RIDE SYSTEM. NOW, 13 YEARS LATER, AFTER

RAPID RIDE WAS IN, WE'RE READY FOR THE NEXT LEVEL OF MASS TRANSPORTATION ON CENTRAL AVENUE. THE RAPID RIDE BUSES ARE AT THE END OF THEIR USEFUL LIFE, THEY ALL HAVE MORE THAN 500,000 MILES ON THEM, WE HAVE TO BUY NEW BUSES ANYWAY, AND THE MAYOR WAS PLANNING FOR THAT. IN THE 2011 TIMEFRAME, HE ASKED SOME INDEPENDENT PEOPLE TO COME IN AND LOOK AT WHAT WAS THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP FOR TRANSPORTATION, MASS TRANSIT, IN OUR CITY, AND THAT WAS DETERMINED BY REGIONAL EXPERTS AND NATIONAL EXPERTS THAT B.R.T. WAS THE BEST PLAN FOR CENTRAL AVENUE. >> BUT WHY CENTRAL IN PARTICULAR? WHY NOT LOMAS AVENUE, WHICH ALSO HAS A LOT OF THE SAME SORT OF BUSINESSES LIKE UNM AND NEARBY HOSPITALS THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO LINK PEOPLE WITH EMPLOYERS? WHY NOT LOOK AT LOMAS AS A POSSIBILITY? >> THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WE ASKED EARLY. LOMAS DOES NOT HAVE THE DENSITY NOR THE ABILITY TO GROW THAT CENTRAL AVENUE DOES. EVERYONE THINKS CENTRAL AVENUE IS ALREADY BUILT OUT, BUT WE HAVE OVER 60 ACRES OF UNDEVELOPED PROPERTY ALONG CENTRAL AVENUE.

IT REALLY DOES CONNECT MUCH MORE OF OUR AMENITIES THAN LOMAS. LOMAS ENDS UP TYING INTO CENTRAL AVENUE, ANYWAY, AND THEN GOING OVER TO THE WEST SIDE. SO WHILE LOMAS WAS A POTENTIAL, IT WAS DETERMINED CENTRAL AVENUE, BECAUSE IT IS OUR SPINE. THAT'S WHERE ALL OF OUR NORTH-SOUTH BUS ROUTES TIE INTO AND CONNECT TO. IT'S GOT MORE OF OUR DESTINATIONS THAN LOMAS DOES. AND BECAUSE IT DOES SERVE BOTH SIDES OF THE RIVER AND IS ABLE TO CONNECT US AS A COMMUNITY, IT WAS DETERMINED THAT. ON CENTRAL AVENUE, WE'VE HAD TRANSIT ON THAT CORRIDOR SINCE THE 1880s, AND WE JUST SIMPLY CANNOT BUILD ANY MORE LANES TO HANDLE MORE VEHICLES. WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE MODE OF TRANSPORTATION ON CENTRAL SOMEWHAT TO GIVE PEOPLE MORE OPTIONS, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T BE KNOCKING DOWN BUSINESSES AND BUILDING WIDER LANES. >> IN TERMS OF BUILDING UP MORE ON CENTRAL, TRANSIT ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT IS A BIG HALLMARK OF SUCCESSFUL MASS TRANSIT PROJECTS, CREATING DENSITY, CREATING MIXED USE. SO HOW ARE YOU GUYS PLANNING FOR THAT? ARE YOU BUYING LAND AROUND THE STOPS TO PLAN FOR THAT KIND OF DEVELOPMENT? >> IT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND WHAT THE MAYOR'S THEORY

IS, IS YOU MAKE THE PUBLIC INVESTMENT AND THE PRIVATE INVESTMENT WILL COME AROUND YOU. THAT'S WHAT'S SHOWN US. SO WHEN INDEPENDENT PEOPLE, THE NAIOPS OF THE WORLD -- >> THAT'S THE COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE TRADE GROUP. >> THE COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE GROUP IN TOWN, AND ALSO THE CENTER FOR BOTH STUDIED THIS. BASED ON THE A.R.T. LINE ALONE, NAIOP CAME WITH ABOUT $1 BILLION IN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY. >> THEY ANTICIPATE THAT IF YOU BUILD IT, THAT'S GOING TO BRING THAT MUCH PRIVATE ACTIVITY? >> YES, A BILLION DOLLARS. STEP FURTHER. THEY SAID, JUST WITH THE A.R.T. LINE ITSELF WITH EXISTING BUSINESSES, THAT NAIOP DID, IF YOU ADD THE T.O.D. IN AND THE ABILITY TO CHANGE OUR ORDINANCES THAT ALLOW THAT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT, WE COULD SEE UPWARDS OF ALMOST $3 BILLION OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITY IN ALBUQUERQUE, AND NO OTHER PROJECT THAT ANYBODY, OPPOSITION OR SUPPORTER, HAS EVER PRESENTED TO THE CITY HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BRING THAT TYPE OF IMPACT TO OUR COMMUNITY. >> CAN YOU BE SURE OF THOSE PROJECTIONS? >> THEY'RE PROJECTIONS, AND

THEY ARE INDEPENDENT ONES, SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE MAKING THEM UP TO ENHANCE THE PROJECT. THAT WAS PART OF THE DUE DILIGENCE OF THE STUDY, AND THAT INFORMATION CAME OUT. SO WHILE WE CAN QUESTION THEM, THEY'RE BASED ON REAL NUMBERS THAT WE HAVE NOW AND PROJECTED GROWTH, AND OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE PUT THESE TYPES OF SYSTEMS IN HAVE SEEN THAT TYPE OF GROWTH. CLEVELAND HAD ALMOST $6 BILLION OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITY BASED ON THEIR LINE ALONE. >> BUT IN TERMS OF -- YOU HAVE TO DO STUFF TO PLAN FOR THAT. LIKE YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE RIGHT ZONING IN PLACE. YOU MIGHT HAVE TO CONSOLIDATE LAND AROUND STOPS TO ATTRACT THAT KIND OF PRIVATE INVESTMENT. HOW ARE YOU GUYS ADDRESSING THAT? >> IN TWO WAYS. ONE, A LOT OF THE STOPS ARE BASED ON AREAS THAT ALREADY HAVE DEVELOPMENT AROUND THEM. SO SOME OF THE BUSINESSES THAT MIGHT BE IN OPPOSITION TO IT I THINK ARE GOING TO BE VERY THANKFUL THAT THEY HAVE A STOP OUTSIDE THEIR DOOR BRINGING THAT MANY PEOPLE RIGHT OUTSIDE THEIR DOORSTEP EVERY NOW AND THEN. AND THEN THE PLACES THAT DON'T HAVE THE DEVELOPMENT YET, IT'S CHANGING THAT TYPE OF ZONING THAT'S ALLOWED THERE. ONE EXAMPLE THAT'S ALREADY

GOING IN IS CALLED THE CARLISLE CONDOMINIUMS. IT'S AT CARLISLE AND CENTRAL. THEY'RE BUILDING A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT BASED PRIMARILY ON A CUSTOMER THAT WILL USE AN A.R.T. TYPE SYSTEM. SO THEY DON'T HAVE MUCH PARKING THERE. IT'S GOING TO BE A LIVE-WORK-PLAY. PEOPLE THAT WANT TO BE THERE DON'T HAVE TO OWN A CAR AND CAN TRAVEL UP AND DOWN CENTRAL. SO EVEN BEFORE THE PROJECT IS IN, SOME DEVELOPERS ARE GOING THROUGH AND MAKING THAT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT POLICY CHANGE TO HOW THEY'RE CONSTRUCTING ALONG CENTRAL. >> SO OPPONENTS RIGHT NOW ARE TRYING TO GET 14,000 SIGNATURES ON A BALLOT TO PUT THIS TO A VOTE IN NOVEMBER. WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY SUCCEED? >> THIS IS A LITTLE UNPRECEDENTED, BECAUSE IT IS VERY LATE IN THE GAME. TYPICALLY THERE'S TWO WAYS FOR THE CITY TO BE ABLE TO BOND MONEY AGAINST STUFF. EITHER THE CITY COUNCIL PASSES IT BY A SUPER MAJORITY, SEVEN VOTES OR MORE, AND THE MAYOR APPROVES THAT, OR YOU HAVE A REFERENDUM THROUGH THE CITY. WE'VE NEVER HAD IT WHERE A COUNCIL PASSES SOMETHING AND THEN WE GET SIGNATURES TO DO A REFERENDUM AGAINST THAT. ACCORDING TO THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT, YOU CAN'T UNDO A COUNCIL ACTION, THEY HAVE TO UNDO IT THEMSELVES, AND WE

CAN CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD. >> YOU CAN CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD EVEN IF IT GOES ON THE BALLOT? >> YES. >> OKAY. >> AT THAT POINT, IT WAS ALMOST LIKE THE RED LIGHT CAMERAS. IT WAS A QUESTION AT THAT TIME: DO YOU WANT THEM OR NOT. THE VOTE BY THE PUBLIC WAS A SUGGESTION AT THAT TIME, IT WASN'T TO KILL THE PROGRAM. THE COUNCIL STILL HAD TO ACT ON THAT VOTE AND KILL RED LIGHT CAMERAS. >> SO THE VOTE ALONE WOULDN'T BE BINDING? >> CORRECT, BECAUSE THERE'S ALREADY AN ACTION TO PUT THE BONDING IN PLACE. WE ALREADY HAVE A BILL THAT SAYS APPROVED AND AUTHORIZED FOR A SMALL START GRANT FOR THIS PROJECT. WE ALREADY HAVE A VOTE THAT SAYS THERE'S $20 MILLION OF LOCAL MONEY APPROPRIATED FOR THIS PROJECT. WE ALREADY HAVE A VOTE THAT SAYS THERE'S $50 MILLION OF OTHER FEDERAL MONEY THAT'S IN THE PROJECT. SO REALLY THE ONLY MONEY THAT COULD BE EFFECTED, I GUESS, WOULD BE A REFERENDUM ON THE SMALL STARTS GRANT, BUT AGAIN, THAT'S ALREADY BEEN APPROVED BY COUNCIL AS WELL. >> OKAY, GREAT. MICHAEL RIORDAN, THANK YOU FOR COMING AND TALKING TO US. >> ABSOLUTELY. THANKS FOR HAVING ME IN, APPRECIATE IT. >> WE JUST HEARD FROM MICHAEL RIORDAN OF THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE.

UP NEXT, MEGAN KAMERICK SITS DOWN WITH COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO SUPPORT THE ALBUQUERQUE RAPID TRANSIT PROPOSAL, AND SOME WHO OPPOSE IT. THE DEDICATED BUS LINE IS SET TO RUN DOWN CENTRAL FROM UNSER ON THE WEST SIDE TO LOUISIANA ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE CITY. LET'S HEAR THE ARGUMENTS FOR AND AGAINST THE PROJECT. >> THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. I HAVE KEITH WEST, THE OWNER OF URBAN FRESH. SUSAN WHEELER DEICHSEL IS ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF URBAN ABQ. JEAN BERNSTEIN, CEO OF FLYING STAR CAFES AND SATELLITE COFFEE. JOHN HOOKER, AN ARCHITECT, FORMER MAYOR OF LOS RANCHOS. THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING AND TALKING ABOUT THIS. KEITH, I WANT TO START WITH YOU. MANY BUSINESS OWNERS ARE WORKINGS ON A PETITION TO GET THIS TRANSIT PROJECT ON THE BALLOT. THEY WANT PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR IT OR AGAINST IT. YOU STARTED A PETITION IN OTHER BUSINESSES THAT ARE ACTUALLY OPPOSING THE PLAN. WHY ARE YOU SO PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS? >> FOR ME, IT'S A SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUE. IT'S REALLY ABOUT PROVIDING

TRANSPORTATION TO THE PEOPLE THAT NEED IT. I HAVE A FEELING THAT NONE OF US AT THIS TABLE NEED IT. I DROVE MY RANGE ROVER HERE THIS MORNING. THE BUSINESS OWNERS THAT ARE AGAINST IT ARE DRIVING THEIR MERCEDES TO WORK. >> WELL, I'M SURE NOT ALL OF >> NO, BUT A LOT OF THE ONES THAT I KNOW. BUT IT'S THEIR EMPLOYEES, IT'S THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT NEED THAT KIND OF TRANSPORTATION TO GET TO WORK, TO SPEND MONEY, AND I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT FOR PEOPLE. WHAT I REALIZED IS, IN ALMOST EVERY ISSUE IN MY LIFE, I VOTE WITH MY DOLLARS. I STILL DON'T GO TO CRACKER BARREL TO EAT, BECAUSE BACK IN THE EIGHTIES THEY HAD A VERY ANTI-GAY POLICY FOR THEIR POLICIES. I DON'T EAT AT CHICK-FIL-A. SO WHY WOULD I SPEND MONEY AT A BARBER OR A RESTAURANT THAT DOESN'T SUPPORT MY VIEWS ON MAKING ALBUQUERQUE BETTER? >> HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE SIGNED YOUR PLEDGE? >> IN A WEEK, WE ARE OVER ABOUT 500. >> SO, A LOT OF BUSINESS OWNERS ARE REALLY WORRIED ABOUT THIS PROJECT. THEY FEAR THE CONSTRUCTION WILL DISSUADE CUSTOMERS FROM COMING TO THEIR BUSINESS.

SO WHY RISK HURTING BUSINESSES FURTHER WITH A BOYCOTT? >> ONE OF THE THINGS FOR ME IS, IT'S REALLY ABOUT AWARENESS, AND THE BUSINESSES THAT HAVE STOP A.R.T. SIGNS ARE VERY STOP A.R.T. ORIENTED, AND I WANT THEM TO KNOW THAT THERE'S LOTS OF US OUT THERE THAT DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT, THAT ARE FOR IT AND WANT TO SUPPORT IT. NOW, THE GOOD NEWS IS, WE HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR BUT FEAR ITSELF, AND CONSTRUCTION SUCKS, I'LL TELL YOU THAT. WHERE I'M AT AT GOLD AND BROADWAY, WE HAD ABOUT A YEAR'S WORTH OF CONSTRUCTION ON BROADWAY. THEY RE-DID MY SIDEWALKS THREE OR FOUR TIMES, THEY RE-DID THE LANES. BUSINESS DID NOT GO DOWN. PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE BEEN FRUSTRATED GETTING THERE, BUT EVEN WITH CONSTRUCTION, I'M GOING TO STILL GO TO MY FAVORITE HAIRDRESSER, I'M GOING TO STILL GO TO MY FAVORITES ITALIAN RESTAURANT, I'M STILL GOING TO GO SHOP AT A PLACE THAT HAS WHAT I WANT, AND THERE ARE WAYS TO GET THERE WITHOUT GOING THROUGH CONSTRUCTION MADNESS. SO IT'S GOING TO BE A SHORT-TERM PAIN FOR A LONG-TERM VALUE. >> JEAN, YOU ARE ONE OF THE

BUSINESS OWNERS VERY PASSIONATELY OPPOSING THIS. WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA THAT THE TRANSIT PROJECT COULD BE A BIG CATALYST FOR MORE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND BOOST BUSINESS ON CENTRAL WHERE YOU HAVE YOUR FLAGSHIP RESTAURANT? >> FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT ALTHOUGH I DO THIS CASE WILL BE VERY DEVASTATING, I'M THE VETERAN OF THREE MAJOR CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS, COUNTY, STATE AND CITY, AND BUSINESS CAN GO DOWN AS MUCH AS 20% OR MORE DURING CONSTRUCTION. DESPITE EVERYONE'S BEST INTENTIONS, IT'S JUST A BYPRODUCT OF IT. >> WHAT'S THE IMPACT ON A RESTAURANT? >> I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE MOST RECENT PROJECT, WHICH WAS PASEO DEL NORTE IN LATE 2014, TOOK US DOWN AS MUCH AS 20% TO 25% PER MONTH FOR THE PERIOD. OUR OVERALL NET LOSS WAS HALF A MILLION DOLLARS IN AN 11 MONTH PERIOD FOR OUR RESTAURANT. THAT'S PRETTY DEVASTATING. THAT WAS CERTAINLY VERY PAINFUL. >> WAS THE CONSTRUCTION WORTH IT?

>> I CAN'T SEE WHAT IT DID OR DIDN'T DO. BUT MY POINT IS, I DON'T WANT TO FOCUS ON THE CONSTRUCTION. I THINK I'M MORE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT A.R.T. WILL LOOK LIKE AFTER THE CONSTRUCTION IS OVER. OUR GROUP, MAKE A.R.T. SMART, WHICH JOHN HAS BEEN A PART OF, TOO, REALLY STARTED OUT AS A GROUP OF ARCHITECTS AND PLANNERS, DESIGNERS AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE IN THESE PROJECTS WHO STARTED ANALYZING THE ACTUAL PLANS, NOT THE CONCEPT DRAWINGS THAT WERE PRESENTED TO THE FOLKS OF ALBUQUERQUE IN 2014, BUT THE ACTUAL -- BECAUSE THERE WERE NO FINISHED DRAWINGS IN 2014 WHEN THEY WERE GOING THROUGH THEIR FTA REQUIREMENTS. >> THE FEDERAL TRANSIT ADMINISTRATION, WHERE THEY GOT THE FUNDING FOR THE BULK OF THIS PROJECT. >> YES. AND THE FIRST SET OF REALLY FINISHED PLANS THAT PEOPLE COULD REALLY, PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE COULD START LOOKING AT WERE AVAILABLE ABOUT AUGUST OF LAST YEAR. OUR GROUP REALLY STARTED RAMPING UP IN NOVEMBER AS THINK, 75% TO 80% FINISHED AND THEY COULD REALLY BEGIN TO DIG IN.

AND THERE WERE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE PROFESSIONALS AT THIS WHO REALLY STARTED DIGGING IN AND REALIZING THAT THERE WERE FLAWS IN THE DESIGN, THAT THERE WERE PARTS WHERE IT DOESN'T FIT, WHERE PROMISES MADE LIKE TO THE NOB HILL MERCHANTS -- FOR EXAMPLE, WE WERE PROMISED THAT ALL OF OUR PARKING WOULD BE RETAINED AND THAT THE SIDEWALKS WOULD BE WIDENED, AND A.R.T. WOULD BE A CATALYST FOR BETTER DESIGN AND PEDESTRIANISM. >> FROM WHAT I KNOW, THERE >> THERE IS NOT. >> THERE'S GOING TO BE 50 MORE SPACES. >> WE HAVE MYTHBUSTERS HERE. >> YES, THE CITY PUT OUT A DOCUMENT CALLED MYTHBUSTERS. WE HAVE A LINK ALONG WITH OTHER THINGS ON OUR WEBSITE. >> HAVE YOU STUDIED THE PLANS THEMSELVES? >> YES. >> AND SO HAVE WE, AND WE SEE PARKING LIKE A SHELL GAME. IT'S INCREASED IN AREAS WHERE IT DOESN'T MUCH MATTER, BUT FOR AREAS THAT ARE DEPENDENT ON PARKING OR SURVIVE ON PARKING, WE DON'T SEE THE GAIN AT ALL. WE REALLY DON'T. WE SEE A NET LOSS. I CAN ALSO TELL YOU FOR A FACT, HAVING MY FEET ON THE GROUND IN NOB HILL, THAT

LAST YEAR NOB HILL LOST ABOUT 16 SPACES PER BLOCK. THE CITY CAME THROUGH AND RE-STRIPED IN ANTICIPATION >> DO YOU NOT IMAGINE, THOUGH, THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GET MORE BUSINESS FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE TRAVERSING CENTRAL AVENUE ON THE A.R.T., THAT THOSE PEOPLE WILL NOT GET OFF AND USE YOUR BUSINESSES, THEY WON'T WALK INTO YOUR RESTAURANT AND PATRONIZE IT? >> I DON'T KNOW WHO THOSE PEOPLE ARE YET, AND AT A STATION EVERY HALF MILE, I'M JUST NOT SURE. I HAPPEN TO BE ONE OF THE LUCKY RECIPIENTS OF A STATION RIGHT NEARBY, BUT IF I WAS A BUSINESS THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN TO HAVE A STATION -- 50% OF ALL BUS RIDERSHIP IS THE ROUTE 66 BUS WHICH WILL CONTINUE TO RUN. THAT'S THE WORK HORSE HERE. >> IN OTHER CITIES WHERE THIS HAS BEEN STUDIED EXTENSIVELY, ESPECIALLY IN HEALTHLINE JUST SEVERAL CELEBRATED ITS 10th ANNIVERSARY. >> WHICH IS KIND OF A MODEL FOR THIS. >> IT IS KIND OF. WELL, IT'S ONE OF THE BIG MODELS. THE CLOSER ONE IS PROBABLY FORT COLLINS. BUT WE CAN REALLY LOOK AT THE CLEVELAND HEALTHLINE. EXPONENTIALLY, AND WITH WHITE COLLAR RIDERS, UNLIKE

THE RIDERSHIP THAT IT USED TO BE. BUT MY CONCERNS ARE ALSO ABOUT SOCIAL EQUITY, AS KEITH'S ARE, AND -- UM, SORRY. >> I WANT TO KNOW WHO THOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE, THE USERS. >> THEY'RE GOING TO BE THE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THE 22% OF THE JOBS THAT EXIST PRESENTLY ALONG CENTRAL AVENUE, AND THEY'LL ALSO MOST LIKELY BE THE HEALTHCARE STAFF AND WORKERS THAT WORK AT OUR VARIOUS INSTITUTIONS UP AND DOWN CENTRAL AVENUE WHO WOULDN'T USE PUBLIC TRANSIT BEFORE BECAUSE IT WAS SO UNRELIABLE. >> WHAT MAKES THIS MORE RELIABLE THAN, SAY, THE RAPID RIDE THAT WE HAVE NOW? >> IT CIRCULATES EVERY SEVEN TO TEN MINUTES. NO ONE EVEN NEEDS TO KNOW A SCHEDULE. >> AND I DON'T HAVE TO STOP BEHIND THAT BUS EVERY TIME. >> NO, AND IT'S ELECTRIC, TOO. >> TRAVELING EAST FROM RIO GRANDE IS SEVEN AND A HALF MINUTES NOW. >> BUT THAT ISN'T LIKELY WHERE NOT MUCH OF THE RIDERSHIP WILL BE COMING

FROM. SOME WILL, CERTAINLY. >> ON THE RAPID RIGHT? >> NO, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE RAPID RIGHT, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE B.R.T. BUT, YES, YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT. >> FOR ME, I OWN A BUSINESS WITH NO PARKING SPOTS. THERE'S STREET PARKING, BUT THE PAROLE AND PROBATION BOARD IS BEHIND ME, SO THERE'S NEVER STREET PARKING. I'VE BEEN TO NEW YORK, I'VE BEEN TO SAN FRANCISCO, I'VE BEEN TO ALL THESE CITIES WHERE YOU CAN'T PARK, AND THEY'RE THRIVING BECAUSE THE PEOPLE ARE WALKING. VERY SELDOM HAVE I BEEN DRIVING 35 MILES AN HOUR DOWN A STREET AND FOUND A PLACE THAT I'M LIKE, OH, I WANT TO GO TO. BUT IF I'M WALKING DOWN THE STREET, I MAY POP IN, I MAY COME IN AND BUY A SLICE OF CAKE BECAUSE I'M WALKING BY. >> AS I WALK, I SEE. AS I WALK, I SMELL. >> SO IT'S THE WALKABILITY OF THE AREA, WHERE NOW IT'S NOT WALKABLE. IT'S NOT WELL LIT. >> IT'S NOT GOING TO IMPROVE. THE SIDEWALKS ARE NOT BEING WIDENED EXCEPT NEAR A.R.T. STATIONS, AND THAT'S WHAT THE PLANS SHOW. THAT WAS PROMISED TO US, BUT WE HAVE DETAILS, AS OF LAST NIGHT, ACTUALLY, THE ACTUAL -- MOST OF THE SIDEWALKS IN NOB HILL ARE AROUND 8 TO 10 FEET. >> SIX FEET ON THE NORTH SIDE.

>> SIX FEET ON THE NORTH SIDE, THAT'S RIGHT. THAT IS VERY NARROW. THAT'S LIKE RIGHT NEXT TO -- >> THAT'S ACTUALLY IN A BUSINESS DISTRICT, BUT OTHER SIDEWALKS IN OTHER REGIONS WILL BE INCREASED FROM ALMOST NOTHING, STANDARD RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD SIZE TO A MINIMUM OF SIX FEET. AT THE SAME TIME, THOSE STREETS WILL BE COMPLETED WITH FURNISHINGS AND LANDSCAPING, LIGHTING. >> AND THOSE ARE ON CENTRAL WHERE NOBODY WALKS RIGHT NOW AT ALL. >> WHERE NOBODY WALKS, EXACTLY. >> BUT IN NOB HILL, WHERE PEOPLE DO TRY AND WALK, THERE'S NO NET GAIN. IN FACT, IN PORTLAND AND OTHER CITIES, THEY RECOMMEND, ESPECIALLY WITH 100-FOOT RIGHT-OF-WAY, AT LEAST A 12 TO 15-FOOT RIGHT OF WAY -- >> YOU MEAN SIDEWALK. >> SIDEWALK; I'M SORRY. AND WE REALLY DON'T HAVE THAT IN NOB HILL. WE DO NOT GAIN ANYTHING IN THIS RESPECT. THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I INITIALLY WAS ALL FOR THE ENHANCEMENTS THAT I THOUGHT A.R.T. WOULD BRING. BUT AS WE BEGAN TO REALLY SEARCH THE PLANS AND LOOK AT IT, WE DON'T SEE THOSE ENHANCEMENTS. >> YOU ARGUE, THOUGH, THAT THERE WILL BE MORE RIDERSHIP. THERE WAS A BOOST IN RIDERSHIP WHEN THEY PUT

RAPID RIDE IN. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT. >> BUT THIS IS STILL A CAR CENTRIC TOWN. I HAD A PERSON AT A PARTY TELL ME, AND SHE LIVES IN THE NORTHEAST HEIGHTS, SAID I'M NOT TAKING THAT AS A WOMAN ALONE, I'M NOT TAKING THE A.R.T. OR WHATEVER DOWNTOWN. SO DO WE KNOW THERE WILL BE THIS SHIFT? >> THAT WAS THE THINKING IN OTHER CITIES, PARTICULARLY WE'LL HARKEN BACK TO CLEVELAND, THAT NO ONE WILL RIDE IT, ALTHOUGH THE ATTITUDE OF THE RESIDENTS OF THAT AREA WAS QUITE DIFFERENT. IT'S ABSOLUTELY POLAR OPPOSITE OF OURS. BUT WE WON'T TALK ABOUT THAT. BUT SLOWLY THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE WHITE COLLAR JOBS JOINED THE BLUE COLLAR RIDERS BECAUSE IT WAS SO TREMENDOUSLY RELIABLE, AND AFTER TEN YEARS IT'S STANDING ROOM ONLY. >> THERE ARE OTHER CITIES WHERE IT HAS NOT BEEN SO RELIABLE. THE MISSION IN SAN FRANCISCO HAS BEEN A DISASTER, FOR EXAMPLE. BUT LET'S SHIFT FOR A MINUTE. A.R.T. DOES NOT HAVE TO BE -- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A.R.T. AS DESIGNED. A.R.T. IS DESIGNED AS A DOUBLE DEDICATED. IT IS NOT NECESSARY UNDER THE FTA SMALL START. THAT WAS A MAJOR MISTAKE THAT WAS MADE.

>> THIS CAME OUT THIS WEEK AS A PART OF THE HEARING THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW IN FRONT OF THE JUDGE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. THAT STARTED OUR LAWSUIT. WE KNEW FROM THE START, HAVING READ EVERY WORD OF THE FTA SMALL START GRANT, THAT DEDICATED LANES WERE NOT PART OF THE REQUIREMENTS. >> WHY WOULD THAT BE DIFFERENT? HOW DOES THAT CHANGE IT? HOW DOES IT CHANGE IT IF WE DON'T HAVE DEDICATED LINES? >> WHY WOULDN'T YOU WANT A DEDICATED LINE? I'M SITTING THERE AT OLO, WHO DOESN'T HAVE A STOP A.R.T. SIGN, HAVING YOGURT LAST NIGHT WHEN THE POLICE AND THE FIRE AND EVERYTHING ARE GOING DOWN THE STREET, AND THEY CAN'T GET WHERE THEY NEED TO BE BECAUSE THERE'S TRAFFIC IN THE LANES, VERSUS THEY CAN BE IN A DEDICATED LANE. >> I THINK JEAN IS GETTING TO THE POINT, WHY DO THEY WANT TWO DEDICATED LANES THROUGH NOB HILL WITH THE NARROW RIGHT-OF-WAY? WHY CAN'T THEY GO WITH ONE TWO-WAY LANE? >> SIMILAR TO DOWNTOWN. >> SIMILAR TO UNM. WHY WHERE THEY HAVE THE WIDE RIGHT-OF-WAY ARE THEY GOING WITH THE SINGLE LANE THERE AND PROVIDING GENEROUS LANDSCAPE MEDIANS?

>> A.R.T. CHANGES AS IT GOES THROUGH ITS TEN MILE TRAJECTORY, AND THERE ARE AREAS WHERE THERE ARE NO DEDICATED LANES AT ALL. SO WHY DID THEY PICK THE DEDICATED LANES IN SOME OF THE MOST CONGESTED, HIGHLY USED, PEDESTRIAN USE, AND PARKING THIRSTY NEIGHBORHOODS OF ALL. THAT'S THE DESIGN PORTION THAT WE ARE REALLY DEDICATED TO TRYING TO FIX, AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET TO THE CITY. THAT'S WHY WE'RE SITTING IN FEDERAL COURT TODAY. >> I BELIEVE THEY'VE DONE THAT, THOUGH, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO CONVERT RIDERSHIP OUT OF CARS, AND THERE'S GOOD EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT THAT'S VERY LIKELY TO HAPPEN, AND THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS WILL BECOME FAR LESS CAR CENTRIC AS TIME GOES BY. CERTAINLY NOT IMMEDIATELY. >> WELL, THE DAMAGE IMMEDIATELY MIGHT MAKE A LOT OF CHANGE. >> JOHN, YOU HAVE A BACKGROUND IN ARCHITECTURE AND PLANNING, YOU WERE THE MAYOR OF LOS RANCHOS, AND YOU ACTUALLY ADVANCED A PROJECT ON NORTH 4th THAT REDUCED THE TRAFFIC LANES, WHICH I'M SURE BROUGHT YOU A >> YES, AND A LAWSUIT. >> TALK ABOUT WHAT KIND OF PLANNING YOU NEED IN ADVANCE OF A PROJECT LIKE THIS, AND ARE YOU SEEING EVIDENCE THAT

THERE WASN'T ENOUGH PLANNING? >> I THINK THERE WASN'T ENOUGH PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT FROM THE INITIAL -- >> WHEN YOU SAY THAT, THEY HAD A TON OF MEETINGS. BUT YOU'RE SAYING THERE WASN'T REAL PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT? >> WELL, I THINK THERE WERE CONCEPTUAL PLANS PRESENTED AT MEETINGS IN 2014, AND THEN THE DESIGN WAS EVOLVING, BUT IT SORT OF LANDED COMPLETE IN AUGUST-SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR, 70% FINISHED, WE CAN'T MAKE ANY CHANGES. WAIT A MINUTE, WHERE'S OUR PARKING, WHERE'S OUR WIDENED SIDEWALKS, WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO US? SO PEOPLE FELT THEY WERE SHORT-CHANGED BECAUSE THEY HADN'T BEEN IN THAT INTERMEDIATE PHASE IN 2015. >> SO MAYBE THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHARRETTES WITH THE COMMUNITY? >> ACTUALLY, THERE WERE. THERE WERE CHARRETTES. I ATTENDED MANY OF THEM. >> THOSE WEREN'T WELL PUBLICIZED. EAST DOWNTOWN AND HUNING HIGHLANDS HOSTED THEIR OWN CHARRETTE ABOUT TWO MONTHS AGO. >> IT WAS A LITTLE LATE,

UNFORTUNATELY, BUT IT WAS AN EXCELLENT CHARRETTE. >> BUT THE CITY SHOULD HAVE HELD THAT KIND OF FOCUS PROFESSIONALLY LED PROGRAM AT EACH OF THESE KEY COMMUNITIES ALONG THE CORRIDOR. THERE WOULD BE NINE OR TEN SEGMENTS, DISTINCT COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST. THE KIND OF ENGAGEMENT YOU CAN GET THROUGH A CHARRETTE OR A PUBLIC WORKSHOP LIKE THAT WHERE YOU REALLY ASK PEOPLE, WHAT DO YOU WANT, WHAT DO YOU NEED, HOW CAN WE PROVIDE THAT, AND YET RECOGNIZE THE COMPROMISES THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE. SO THAT'S WHERE NOB HILL COULD HAVE REALLY BEEN PART OF AN EXCELLENT CONVERSATION WITH THE CITY IF BACK IN APRIL OR MAY OF LAST YEAR THE DESIGNERS HAD SAT DOWN FOR TWO OR THREE DAYS WORKING ON THE PLANS WHILE THE PUBLIC SAT WITH THEM AND TALKED ABOUT WHAT THEY NEEDED. >> I DID ATTEND TWO PLANNING SESSIONS BACK IN '12 AND '13 THAT WERE HELD BY THE CITY, ONE AT THE MUSEUM OF ART AND HISTORY, THE SECOND ONE WAS AT MRCOG, DOING THAT EXACT

KIND OF THING. >> MID REGION COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS. >> YES. >> BUT SOMEHOW WE ENDED UP WITH SOMETHING THAT -- AND WE'RE NOT THE ONLY GROUP HERE THAT IS UPSET OR WORRIED OR CONCERNED ABOUT THE DESIGN OF A.R.T. THERE ARE MANY, MANY GROUPS OUT THERE, MANY INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE BEEN DOING THESE STUDIES, TOO. I MEAN, LOOK AT DR. GREG ROWANGOULD, WHO IS A CIVIL ENGINEERING PROFESSOR AT UNM, WHO APPROACHED THE CITY WITH HIS CONCERNS BECAUSE HE HAD DOWNLOADED THE PLANS FROM THE INTERNET AND REALIZED THAT HE FOUND MANY FLAWS AND PROBLEMS. >> ACTUALLY, I'M NOT SURE WHERE WE, AS NON-ENGINEERS, ARE SUPPOSED TO BE TALKING ABOUT ENGINEERING STUDIES. >> I CAN TEACH YOU. >> WELL, I WILL SAY, I ASKED MICHAEL RIORDAN ABOUT THIS, AND HE SAID THAT DR. ROWANGOULD LOOKED AT AN OUTDATED TRAFFIC STUDY. >> THE ONES THAT WERE SUBMITTED TO THE FTA. THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE ON FILE WITH THE FTA. NOW, THEY WERE NEVER UPDATED, SO THAT IS VERY TELLING, AS WELL. BUT MY POINT IS THIS, BACK TO THE ENGAGEMENT PORTION.

SO WE HAVE ALL THESE BEAUTIFUL DRAWINGS AND -- >> LET ME ASK YOU REAL QUICK, BECAUSE WE'RE NEARING THE END. IF WE COULD CHANGE SOMETHING THAT WOULD MAKE THIS MORE SUCCESSFUL OR PALATABLE, WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE? >> YES, I'D LIKE TO KNOW. >> UNFORTUNATELY, AT THIS POINT IT HAS TO BE DELAYED IN ORDER FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. >> WHICH IS WHY YOU GUYS HAVE FILED A LAWSUIT. >> THAT WAS OUR INSURANCE, BECAUSE THE CITY HAS RESISTED US SINCE ALMOST A YEAR AGO. >> THE WAY I SEE THIS, ANY TIME WE'RE DEALING WITH GOVERNMENT, WE CAN'T GET THINGS DONE. AND WE NEED TO GET THIS DONE. THE ISSUES I'M HEARING ARE THE SAME ISSUES AROUND THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT. 'WE'RE NOT READY YET FOR BLACK PEOPLE TO HAVE RIGHTS.' >> DO YOU THINK THAT'S -- >> OH, NO, I DON'T. I FEEL THIS IS A CONSTRUCTION PROJECT, NOT CIVIL RIGHTS. >> AND I ALSO BELIEVE YOU'LL NEVER GET ANYTHING THAT'S PERFECT. >> WE AGREE WITH THAT, BUT WE HAVE A HISTORIC ROAD THAT'S NARROW, 70 FEET IN CERTAIN AREAS. >> WE DON'T A HISTORIC ROAD, IT'S CONCRETE. >> BUT WE HAVE 138 HISTORIC SITES ON AN OLD ROAD THAT IS A NATIONAL SCENIC BYWAY, AND

IT'S A PART OF THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE'S PRESERVE ROUTE 66, WHICH IS GETTING CULTURALLY. 30% OF OUR REVENUE DOLLARS ARE TOURIST BASED. A LOT OF PEOPLE STILL COME FOR THE OLD DECREPIT ROAD. IT HAS BEAUTY AND BONES, AND HAS SOME PRESERVATION ISSUES THAT A.R.T. DOES NOT ADDRESS AT ALL. THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE ASKED FOR. >> SO YOU WANT TO PUT A BRAKE, SO TO SPEAK, ON THIS TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD SOMEWHAT AND SAY, LET'S MAKE THIS WORK? >> WE WILL BE THE ONLY CITY THAT WAS NOT REQUIRED, THAT HAS RECEIVED THIS TYPE OF FTA FUNDING, A NEPA IMPACT STUDY. >> NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY ACT. >> THAT'S RIGHT. WE WILL BE THE ONLY CITY THAT GOT A FREE PASS. WHY? >> ACTUALLY, A NUMBER OF CITIES GOT NEPA DISPENSATIONS, SO TO SPEAK. I WAS READING THAT JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO. WE'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES. >> LET ME ASK YOU MAYBE A FINAL QUESTION. LET'S SAY THIS IS WILDLY SUCCESSFUL AND WE HAVE LOTS

OF DENSITY. >> WONDERFUL. >> AND PROPERTY VALUES GO REALLY HIGH. WHAT IS NOB HILL -- IT'S A NINE MILE ROUTE, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT NOB HILL AND OTHER AREAS. THOSE RENTS MIGHT ONLY BE AFFORDABLE BY BIG NATIONAL >> IT COULD HAPPEN. >> SO IS THAT SOMETHING WE WANT NOB HILL TO LOOK LIKE? INSTEAD OF JEAN'S RESTAURANT, THERE WILL BE -- >> WE WILL LOSE THE CHARACTER, WON'T WE. >> I GUESS, HOW DO WE PROTECT THAT? HOW DO WE GET WHAT WE ALL WANT? >> BY HAVING MORE DENSITY, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PLENTY OF PLACES THAT ARE GOING TO BUILD NEW BUILDINGS. WE CAN'T GUARANTEE BECAUSE ALBUQUERQUE'S ECONOMY IS NOT CLEVELAND'S, IT IS NOT OTHER CITIES'. WE HAVE SEPARATE ISSUES THAT ARE ALL BEING ROLLED INTO ONE. THIS STATE, THIS CITY, HAS VERY SERIOUS ISSUES THAT -- >> CLEVELAND CERTAINLY DID, TOO, AND ALMOST ALL THE NEIGHBORHOODS THROUGH WHICH THE HEALTHLINE TRAVERSED WERE VERY LOW INCOME, AND THEY'VE REALLY, REALLY COME

BACK. >> OHIO HAS AN ECONOMY THAT WE DON'T HAVE. >> I HATE TO CUT YOU GUYS OFF, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THERE'S MORE TO TALK ABOUT. I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU ALL COMING AND TALKING ABOUT THIS AND BEING THOUGHTFUL AND ENGAGED IN YOUR DISCUSSIONS. >> THANKS FOR HAVING US. >> WE'VE GOT A LOT OF LINKS ON OUR WEBSITE IF PEOPLE WANT TO DELVE IN MORE. >> WE'LL FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS IN COURT. >> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. >> YES, I'M DYING TO HEAR WHAT HAPPENS. >> WELCOME TO THE LINE. THIS WEEK, DEMOCRATIC DELEGATES FROM NEW MEXICO TRAVELED TO PHILADELPHIA TO JOIN THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION. THERE WAS SOME CONTROVERSY ON THE FLOOR, AND WE'LL GET TO THAT IN A MOMENT WITH THIS WEEK'S OPINION PANELISTS. IF YOU WANT TO SEE OUR THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, HEAD TO NewMexicoInFocus.org. NOW, I'M JOINED AT THE TABLE BY EDDIE ARAGON, CEO OF THE 'THE ROCK OF TALK' FOX NEWS, ABQ 95.9 FM. MARSHA GARCIA IS HERE, SHE'S WITH STRATEGIES 360. JANICE ARNOLD JONES, FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE IS HERE. AND ERIC GRIEGO, HE'S A FORMER STATE SENATOR HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

NOW, ERIC, START US OFF HERE. SOME OF THE DELEGATES IN NEW MEXICO WHO SUPPORTED BERNIE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF NEGATIVE ATTENTION THE FIRST COUPLE OF DAYS. LET'S START WITH BERNIE. HOW DID PEOPLE COMPORT THEMSELVES? WERE YOU SURPRISED AT WHAT HAPPENED AT THE CONVENTION? DO YOU THINK IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BIT ROUGHER? WHERE ARE YOU COMING FROM ON THIS? >> WELL, I THINK IT'S BEEN OVERBLOWN, TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST. UNFORTUNATELY, SOME OF THE KIND OF ESTABLISHMENT DEMOCRATS HAVE SORT OF PLAYED IT UP AND FRANKLY I A LITTLE BIT ONE-SIDED IN TERMS OF OVERPLAYING THEIR BEHAVIOR. HAVING SAID THAT, OBVIOUSLY NOBODY AGREES WITH PEOPLE ACTING UNRULY. I WAS A DELEGATE IN 2004, AND WE HAD PEOPLE WHO HAD DIFFERENCES OF OPINION, BUT CERTAINLY TRYING TO HOLD IT TOGETHER. I THINK THE CHALLENGE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND SOME OF THE FOLKS WHO REALLY -- REMEMBER, NOT COUNTING SUPER DELEGATES, 18 HILLARY DELEGATES, 16 BERNIE DELEGATES. BERNIE WON THIS COUNTY. SO IF YOU'RE TRULY GOING TO TRY TO REPRESENT WHERE THE PARTY IS AND WHERE THE PARTY'S GOING, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE VOICE FOR THOSE FOLKS, AND I THINK THE FRUSTRATION HAS BEEN FRANKLY

SOME OF THE HUBRIS OF THE ESTABLISHMENT DEMOCRATS WHO SAY, LET'S MARGINALIZE THESE GUYS, LET'S CRUSH THESE GUYS, IT'S OVER. I THINK THE LARGER THING IS LIKE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SORT OF CONTROL PEOPLE AND YOU REALLY MARGINALIZE THEM, THEY DO THINGS THAT ARE PROBABLY OUT OF CHARACTER FOR THEM. A LOT OF THOSE FOLKS ARE GOOD FOLKS. I KNOW A LOT OF THOSE DELEGATES. THEY WORKED THEIR HEARTS OUT, AND MANY OF THEM HELPED HIM ALMOST WIN NEW MEXICO. SO TO SAY THAT THEY SHOULD SORT OF BE KEPT IN THEIR PLACE -- WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE PLATFORM OR THE VP NOMINEE, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE DONE A GOOD ENOUGH JOB OF HONORING ALL OF THE WORK THAT THOSE PEOPLE, YOUNG PEOPLE, DISAFFECTED VOTERS, AND BRINGING THEM INTO THE FOLD, AND I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS PEOPLE JUST FEELING REALLY, REALLY SORT OF MARGINALIZED AND TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. >> MARSHA, WE'LL GET TO THE PRESIDENT AND MICHELLE OBAMA AND SOME OTHER PEOPLE HERE IN A QUICK SECOND, BUT THE BERNIE THING IS STILL INTERESTING TO ME BECAUSE I REALLY LIKED WHAT HE GOT FOR

HIS APPLAUSE WHEN HE CAME OUT TO SPEAK. HE MADE A PRETTY GOOD CASE, IT SEEMED TO ME, LOOK, WE'VE GOT TO GET BEHIND THIS NOMINEE, HILLARY CLINTON, AND JUST GET OVER IT. IT JUST DIDN'T QUITE WORK THAT WAY, THOUGH, DOES IT? BERNIE PEOPLE SEEMED TO BE GETTING LECTURED A LOT THIS PAST WEEK. GET OVER IT, GET ON WITH IT, EVERYTHING YOU TRY TO DO DOESN'T COUNT. HOW SHOULD PEOPLE TAKE THAT AND MOVE FORWARD? IT'S A TOUGH THING. >> I THINK THAT WE CAN LOOK BACK AT PREVIOUS DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTIONS, AND IN GAVE HER CONCESSION SPEECH, THERE WERE CLOSE-UPS OF PEOPLE CRYING. BUT AGAIN, SOMETIMES IT TAKES A LITTLE BIT LONGER FOR FOLKS TO GET ON BOARD WITH WHOEVER IS GOING TO BE CARRYING THE BANNER FOR THAT PARTY, AND I THINK MAYBE FOR THE BERNIE SUPPORTERS, IT MIGHT TAKE THEM A LITTLE BIT LONGER. BUT THIS ISN'T SOMETHING NEW THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE. AND I AGREE WITH WHAT ERIC WAS SAYING, THAT IT HAS BEEN A LITTLE BIT OVERLY FOCUSED ON BY THE MEDIA BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

BUT I THINK THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS UNITY. COMING TOGETHER TO ENSURE THAT WE DO NOT END UP WITH PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, BECAUSE THEN EVERYTHING THAT THESE BERNIE SUPPORTERS STAND FOR, AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO BE TAKEN AWAY. SO I THINK THERE'S A BIGGER PICTURE HERE THAT FOLKS NEED TO START FOCUSING ON. AND AGAIN, IT JUST TAKES SOME PEOPLE A LITTLE BIT LONGER. WHAT IS REALLY EXCITING, THOUGH, IS SEEING ALL THE PASSION THAT WE'RE SEEING OUT OF YOUNG PEOPLE AND OUT OF A LOT OF FOLKS THAT WEREN'T INVOLVED IN OUR DEMOCRATIC PROCESS IN THE PAST. WE'RE SEEING SO MUCH CIVIC ENGAGEMENT HERE THAT HOPEFULLY WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO HARNESS THIS ENERGY AND CREATE A STRONGER DEMOCRATIC PARTY, AND ALSO CREATE A MORE INVOLVED ELECTORATE. THIS LAST ELECTION CYCLE, HISTORICALLY ONE OF THE LOWEST TURNOUTS IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, AND THAT WAS JUST NOT IN NEW MEXICO, IT WAS ACROSS THE BOARD FROM THE TOP OF THE TICKET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE TICKET. SO HOPEFULLY WE'RE GOING TO SEE SOME OF THIS PASSION MANIFEST ON ELECTION DAY, WE'RE GOING TO SEE PEOPLE STAY INVOLVED AND SEE PEOPLE TURN OUT AND VOTE. >> EDDIE, LET'S MOVE ON TO WHO THE NOMINEE IS, AND THAT IS HILLARY CLINTON. INTERESTINGLY, THERE ARE SO

MANY DIFFERENT ANGLES HERE, HOW IS IT THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE TAKEN THE UPPER HAND ON BEING POSITIVE, ON BEING ASPIRATIONAL, ON BEING FORWARD CASTING AND LOOKING AT AN AMERICA THAT IS ABOUT POSITIVITY? WE HAVE THIS WHOLE OTHER THING ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE WHERE IT WAS LIKE GLOOM AND DOOM ENDLESSLY. HOW DID IT HAPPEN? HOW DID DEMOCRATS END UP BEING THE SHINING LIGHT ON THE HILL PARTY SUDDENLY? >> I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR QUESTION AND YOUR PHRASING, JUST ABOUT ANYTHING, GENE, SO EXCUSE ME AND LET ME START THERE. YOU'RE SELLING ME A HISTORY OF THE LAST EIGHT YEARS WHICH I HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED. >> I'M TALKING ABOUT THE CONVENTION. EVERYBODY IS UPBEAT ON THE CONVENTION. >> YEAH, WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, WE'RE ALREADY GREAT, HOW GREAT IS THIS, AND WE GET THE FACEBOOK POSTS AND I DON'T THINK THEY'RE REALLY TAKING THE POSITION THAT YOU'RE SAYING. THAT'S CERTAINLY THEIR PHRASING, BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE NOT BOUGHT INTO THIS. THE UNFAVORABLES ARE ACTUALLY HIGHER FOR HILLARY CLINTON THAN THEY ARE FOR DONALD TRUMP. THE REMARKABLE THING THAT ERIC AND MARSHA ARE TALKING ABOUT, THIS PASSION, THIS INVOLVEMENT, YOU'RE NOT

GOING TO SEE THAT. I LOOKED AT THE CONVENTION LAST NIGHT, I WATCHED C-SPAN, AND THE CONVENTION WAS HALF EMPTY. THIS WAS A MADE-FOR-TV SALE EXPERIENCE. OTHER THAN PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA AND BILL CLINTON, WHO ARE CHARISMATIC -- AND NOTICE I DIDN'T INCLUDE BIDEN IN THERE -- CHARISMATIC, INVOLVED, KNOW HOW TO MOTIVATE PEOPLE, YOU'RE LOOKING AT A HISTORY THAT'S IN THE PAST. HILLARY CLINTON AND TIM KAINE? I MEAN, GOING FORWARD IT DOES NOT LOOK GOOD FOR THE DEMOCRATS IN TERMS OF A HEAD-TO-HEAD WITH DONALD TRUMP, AND EVEN A GUY THAT I HARDLY KNOW, MIKE PENCE. I THINK HILLARY HAS A LOT OF PROBLEMS AHEAD OF HER. 50 TO 37 WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE POLLING. THIS IS GOING INTO THE CONVENTION. YOU TAKE DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, YOU TAKE THE CORRUPTION, THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL LIKE THEY'RE MARGINALIZED, AS ERIC SAID, WHO ARE NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE A REAL VOICE -- YOU KNOW, I WAS A PART OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY FOR A LONG TIME. I WAS PERSONALLY MARGINALIZED BY THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN, BEING INVOLVED WITH A GUY BY THE NAME OF WES CLARK, A REPUBLICAN WHO RAN AS A DEMOCRAT. >> YOU WOULDN'T HOLD A GRUDGE OR ANYTHING, WOULD

YOU? >> NO, NOT AT ALL. THE PROBLEM IS, THOUGH, I DON'T THINK HILLARY HAS THE ABILITY TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE INVOLVED WITH THE GREEN PARTY, OR PEOPLE WHO ARE INVOLVED WITH INDEPENDENTS, AND TAKING UP SOME OF THOSE THINGS. WHAT HILLARY IS GOING TO BE FOCUSED ON ARE THE VERY PEOPLE WHO HELPED HER GET WHERE SHE'S AT, AND THAT'S OF COURSE GOLDMAN SACHS, WALL STREET. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE INTERESTED IN, THAT'S WHAT THE CLINTON FOUNDATION IS INTERESTED IN. THEY'RE INTERESTED IN COMPLETE GLOBALIZATION, AND I CANNOT TELL YOU BETWEEN THE TTP AND ALL THESE OTHER VARIOUS THINGS THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING AND PUSHING FORWARD, IT'S A DIFFERENT WORLD THAN THE WORLD THEY'RE PAINTING INSIDE THE CONVENTION. SO TO SAY THAT THERE'S A STAR ON THE HILL, OR WHATEVER YOU SAID, A SHINING LIGHT ON THE HILL, I DON'T THINK HILLARY CLINTON IS ANYTHING LIKE THAT. >> I'M GOING TO COME BACK TO WHAT EDDIE SAID, BECAUSE HE'S REALLY ON TO SOMETHING, BUT STRONG MESSAGE TO FOLLOW HERE. PEOPLE GO TO CONVENTIONS BECAUSE THEY WANT A VOICE IN THEIR PLATFORMS, AND TO HAVE BOTH PARTIES SAY, WE GO TO CONVENTIONS BECAUSE WE WANT TO HAVE UNITY IS SO INSULTING.

OH, MY GOODNESS. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SUPER DELEGATE SYSTEM, IS THE GAME RIGGED? YES, IT'S RIGGED. IF YOU LOOK AT THE RULE OF THE GRAVEL PROCESS USED BY THE REPUBLICANS, IS IT YES, IT IS. AND PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF THAT. AND THE NUMBERS -- YOU KNOW, THIS VOICE HAS BEEN GROWING OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, THIS IS THE STRONGEST IT'S EVER BEEN, AND YOU BETTER PAY ATTENTION, OR THE PARTIES AS YOU KNOW IT ARE GOING TO GO AWAY BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE SAYING, I'VE HAD IT, I HAVE HAD IT. >> AS A FOLLOW-UP TO WHAT MARSHA SAID, WHICH IS PEOPLE'S INVOLVEMENT, LOWEST TURNOUT EVER, PEOPLE NEED A VOICE. LET'S HAVE THE PEOPLE HAVE AN ISSUE, JUST LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT. THERE NEEDS TO BE AN HONEST CONVERSATION. YOU CAN'T HAVE THE HONEST CONVERSATION WHEN THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE GETTING TOGETHER WITH THE MEDIA AND TELLING YOU WHO YOU SHOULD BE HAVING A PROBLEM WITH. THAT'S AN ISSUE. >> ERIC, DEBBIE WASSERMAN WAS MENTIONED A LITTLE BIT AGO. IT'S EASY TO LOOK BACK AND SEE IT.

WAS IT A DISTRACTION, A SIGN OF A MAJOR PROBLEM? HOW DID YOU TAKE THE WHOLE WASSERMAN THING? BECAUSE IT REALLY BLEW UP 48 HOURS BEFORE SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO GRAVEL THE THING. IT JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN. >> AGAIN, THE MORE YOU TRY TO CONTROL DISSENT, THE MORE YOU TRY TO SORT OF ORCHESTRATE THINGS, INCLUDING AN ELECTION, AND FRANKLY I WAS REALLY HAPPY TO SEE SOME SORT OF MAINSTREET DEMOCRATS LIKE CONGRESSMAN LUJAN SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, SHE SHOULD RESIGN. HE'S IN THE LEADERSHIP. BECAUSE WHETHER YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT, WHATEVER YOU ARE, WE HAVE TO BELIEVE IN OUR SYSTEM OF DEMOCRACY, AND WHAT THEY DID OVER THERE -- AND IT WASN'T JUST THE SILLY E-MAILS. THERE WAS A CLEAR ANOINTING GOING ON AMONG ESTABLISHED DEMOCRATS, AND IT JUST WAS ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT WE HAD TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO REALLY -- WHAT'S THE FUTURE, NOT JUST OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, WHAT'S THE FUTURE OF OUR ELECTORATE AND ALL THESE YOUNG PEOPLE, ALL THESE DISAFFECTED PEOPLE WHO REALLY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY TO VOLUNTEER AND GIVE $8 MILLION IN INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO BERNIE SANDERS IN $27. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE

TRYING TO GET BACK INTO OUR DEMOCRACY. AS MARSHA AND OTHERS HAVE SAID, AMONG DEVELOPED COUNTRIES, WE HAVE THE LOWEST VOTER TURNOUT, AND IT'S EMBARRASSING. SO WHY WOULD YOU NOT WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE OPENING THE PROCESS UP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE WITH THE BEST PERSON, AND I'D JUST LIKE THE DNC AND THE LEADERSHIP -- >> BUT IN 2008 WITH THE SUPER DELEGATES, WEREN'T WE PROMISED THAT IN 2008, THAT THEY WERE GOING TO CHANGE IT THEN? >> I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT JUST THE SUPER DELEGATES, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE WAY THE PARTY -- I DON'T KNOW THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, BUT THE DNC HAS SORT OF TRIED TO CONTROL THE PROCESS AND ALSO WHO GETS NOMINATED. SUPER DELEGATES, AND I AGREE WITH JANICE ON THIS ONE, AND FRED HARRIS, WHO IS ONE OF THE SUPER DELEGATES, SAID LOOK, WE GOT RID OF THIS, WE NEED TO GET RID OF THEM. I THINK WHEN IT'S 18-16 IN NEW MEXICO, WHEN IT'S A TWO POINT DIFFERENCE, TO SOMEHOW HAVE THESE SUPER DELEGATES SORT OF BE THE FOCAL POINT AND ALMOST MARGINALIZE ALL THE BERNIE DELEGATES, EXCEPT TO SAY THAT THEY'RE UNRULY

AND WHY AREN'T THEY GETTING IN LINE AND WHY AREN'T THEY UNIFYING, I THINK IT GETS TO DEMOCRACY. WHATEVER YOU BELIEVE, WE WANT PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE. >> WE'VE GOT ABOUT FIVE MINUTES LEFT ON THIS ONE, AND WE'VE GOT TO TOUCH ON OUR CURRENT PRESIDENT. MARSHA, I'LL START WITH YOU ON THIS. INTERESTINGLY, IT WAS KIND OF A TWO-PART SPEECH. HERE IS WHAT WE DID, HERE IS WHY WE THINK HILLARY CLINTON SHOULD CONTINUE ALL OF THIS. IT WAS INTERESTING, AND ALSO A LITTLE BITTERSWEET TO WATCH THE PRESIDENT SAY GOOD-BYE, WASN'T IT. IT'S A VERY INTERESTING THING AFTER EIGHT YEARS OF THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF HIS SPEECH? >> I THINK THAT JUST THIS ENTIRE TOPIC, EVEN OUTSIDE OF HIS SPEECH, IS SOMETHING THAT'S VERY EMOTIONAL TO ME, BECAUSE I'M A BIG FAN OF PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA. HE'S MY PRESIDENT, AND I WILL ALWAYS FEEL THAT WAY. AND I THINK THAT HE MIGHT BE ONE OF THE BEST PRESIDENTS OF MY LIFETIME. SO HEARING HIM KIND OF SAY GOODBYE TO THE COUNTRY AND SAYING GOODBYE TO ALL OF US, IT HURTS. BUT IT'S ALSO EXCITING TO SEE THIS ON THE HEELS OF US

POTENTIALLY HAVING THE FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT, WHICH AGAIN IS SUCH AN AMAZING EXCITING THING. AND, YOU KNOW, AS A WOMAN, THIS IS HUGE. MY GIRLFRIENDS AND I WERE TALKING THE DAY AFTER THE PRIMARY, BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A CONTENTIOUS PRIMARY, BUT WE KEPT SAYING, AS A WOMAN, WE DESERVE A PARADE. WHERE WAS OUR PARADE. JUST THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A WOMAN THAT'S GOING TO BE THE CANDIDATE ON A MAJOR PARTY TICKET, I MEAN, IF IT WAS A REPUBLICAN WOMAN, WE WOULD STILL BE SAYING, WHERE WAS OUR PARADE, BECAUSE THERE'S A WOMAN THAT'S GOING TO BE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. I HAD SO MANY CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE HOW, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL GET THEIR KIDS AND THEY SHOW THEM THE FLASHCARDS OF THE PRESIDENTS, AND THE QUESTION IS, WHERE ARE THE GIRLS? WHY ISN'T THERE A GIRL? SO I MEAN, THIS IS A REALLY BIG DEAL FOR OUR COUNTRY, AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO PUT US IN A PLACE WHERE, AS A FIRST WORLD COUNTRY, WE'RE FINALLY GETTING THERE. SO IT WAS VERY BITTERSWEET TO SEE THE PRESIDENT SAY GOOD-BYE, BUT IT'S ALSO EXCITING TO SEE WHAT CAN HAPPEN FOR OUR FUTURE. >> JANICE, PICK UP ON THAT, BECAUSE EVEN THE FOX NEWS COVERAGE WAS VERY CLOSE TO WHAT MARSHA WAS SAYING, A

IDEA OF A WOMAN BEING NOMINATED TO A MAJOR PARTY WAS SOMETHING TO BE CELEBRATED NO MATTER WHO THE PARTY. >> I THINK IT SHOULD BE CELEBRATED, BUT I, AS A WOMAN, THINK THAT THERE IS STILL A LOT TO BE SAID FOR HAVING THE VERY BEST PERSON POSSIBLE, AND SOMETIMES IT'S A WOMAN, AND SOMETIMES IT'S NOT A WOMAN, AND I'M OKAY WITH THAT. BUT I LISTENED TO MY DAUGHTER AND SHE SAID, WELL, THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE AND WE'VE NEVER FOUGHT THIS BEFORE, AND I ASSURE YOU, WE'VE BEEN FIGHTING THIS FOR QUITE A WHILE. SO TO THAT EXTENT, YES, IT'S A GOOD THING. BUT I LOOK AT HILLARY CLINTON AND THIS WOMAN HAS PUNCHED MORE TICKETS CLEARLY, AND YOU COULD ARGUE THE BEST QUALIFIED BY EXPERIENCE, AND I CAN'T VOTE FOR HER, BECAUSE THE ONE THING THAT SHE HAS DONE, I CANNOT TRUST HER. AND I WANT TRUST, I DO. NOW, I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE PRESIDENT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ONE SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE IS, THERE ARE VERY FEW ORATORS THAT COME ALONG, AND HE IS GIFTED WITH THAT, AND HIS SPEECH WAS WONDERFUL.

I DON'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH EVERYTHING, BUT THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THE PASSION AND THE EMOTION THAT HE BROUGHT WITH IT, AND I RESPECT THAT OFFICE, AND I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN WE'RE FINISHED WITH THE ELECTION, WE AS A COUNTRY HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT WE RESPECT THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT. >> THAT'S RIGHT, GOOD FOR YOU. ERIC, PICK UP ON THAT. >> I WAS, BACK IN 2008, I WAS ONE OF I THINK THREE PEOPLE WHO WERE OBAMA SUPPORTERS WHEN MOST OF THE SAME PEOPLE WHO WERE SUPPORTING HILLARY WERE BEHIND HILLARY, AND THERE WAS THIS WHOLE BIG THING, HISPANICS AND LATINOS ARE NOT GOING TO SUPPORT A BLACK. AND REMEMBER, HE WAS THE OUTSIDER, HE WAS THE DISSIDENT, HE WAS THE PROGRESSIVE, HE WAS THE ANTI-WAR CANDIDATE. SO IT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT. WHEN PEOPLE START COMPARING HIM AND HILLARY, IT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT. HE WAS THE BERNIE IN 2008. AND HE'S ALSO AN AMAZING, YOU KNOW, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR. I MEAN, INCREDIBLY, THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST WE HAVE, AND HE HAPPENS TO BE AFRICAN-AMERICAN, WHICH IS GREAT, AND I THINK THAT'S THE WAY WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT.

I THINK IT IS WONDERFUL THAT WE ARE FINALLY, FINALLY JOINING THE FIRST WORLD, AS MARSHA SAID, IN TERMS OF NOMINATING A FEMALE PRESIDENT, BUT I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT THE VALUES. WOMEN WERE NOT REJOICING, CERTAINLY DEMOCRATIC WOMEN WERE NOT REJOICING WHEN SUSANA MARTINEZ WAS ELECTED GOVERNOR, THEY WERE NOT REJOICING WHEN SARAH PALIN WAS ON THE TICKET. SO IT'S IMPORTANT DESCRIPTION REPRESENTATION HAVING PEOPLE OF COLOR, HAVING WOMEN REPRESENTING US AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL, IT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT, AND AS JANICE SAID, IT'S IMPORTANT WHAT THEY STAND FOR AND WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN. SO I THINK HILLARY'S CHALLENGE IS NOT JUST CARRYING ON PRESIDENT OBAMA'S LEGACY IN MOST AREAS, IT'S REALLY THE COMMITMENT TO BRING THE BERNIE FOLKS INTO IT. IT'S THREE THINGS. IT'S THAT PLATFORM, WHICH WAS A MAJOR VICTORY, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING BINDING THERE. IS SHE REALLY GOING TO IMPLEMENT THAT PLATFORM? AND BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER TO KEEP THESE PROGRESSIVES WITH HER, SHE'S GOT TO DO THAT. THE TEAM IS GOING TO BE KEY. KAINE IS A WONDERFUL MAN, BUT HE'S NOT GOING TO SET THE WORLD ON FIRE. SO I, TOO, AM A BIG OBAMA FAN. I DIDN'T AGREE WITH HIM ON EVERYTHING, BUT HE'S MORE THAN A GREAT ORATOR, HE IS

ONE OF OUR PROBABLY SMARTEST PRESIDENTS. >> IT WAS FUN TO WATCH. NEXT WEEK WE'LL HAVE SOME DEMOCRATIC DELEGATES FROM NEW MEXICO IN THE STUDIO TO TALK ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCE AT THE CONVENTION. GWYNETH DOLAND SAT DOWN THIS WEEK WITH TWO DELEGATES FROM NEW MEXICO WHO ATTENDED LAST WEEK'S REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION IN CLEVELAND. >> FERNANDO AND CECILIA C'DE BACA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN TODAY TO TALK ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US. >> FERNANDO, I WANT TO START WITH YOU. THE CONVENTION IS THE TIME AND PLACE WHERE THE PARTY'S BUSINESS GETS DONE. IT'S ALSO A TIME AND PLACE FOR SOME PARTYING. SO WHAT DID THE CONVENTION MEAN TO YOU? >> WELL, IT WAS AN EXHILARATING EXPERIENCE FOR ME. I'VE BEEN TO TWO OTHER WAS THE MOST EXCITING AND FUN-FILLED CONVENTION THAT I'VE SEEN OR EXPERIENCED. >> THAT'S GREAT. WAS IT FUN FOR YOU? >> I HAD A BLAST.

IT WAS SO MUCH FUN. WE GOT THERE THE FIRST NIGHT, AND IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE DOOBIE BROTHERS. TURNS OUT THAT IT'S THREE DOG NIGHT. NIGHT, BUT I KEEP HEARING THESE THREE DOG NIGHT SONGS. FINALLY MAKE IT OVER THERE AND ONE OF THE LADIES SAYS, OH, MY GOSH, THOSE PEOPLE ARE SO OLD. THREE DOG NIGHT, THEY'RE SO OLD. AND I THOUGHT, YOU CAN IMAGINE WHAT THEY'RE SAYING ABOUT US WHEN THEY LOOKED DOWN ON US. >> THIS CAMPAIGN STARTED WITH A HUGE FIELD OF CANDIDATES -- >> HUGE. >> -- ALL ACROSS THE REPUBLICAN SPECTRUM. WHO DID YOU SUPPORT IN THE PRIMARY? >> ORIGINALLY, DONALD J. TRUMP. >> AND YOU? >> LIKEWISE. >> FROM THE BEGINNING? >> FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. >> WHY DID YOU CHOOSE HIM IN THE BEGINNING, CECILIA? >> BASICALLY, I CHOSE DONALD J. TRUMP BECAUSE HE CAUGHT MY EAR, IS WHAT HAPPENED. IN AMERICA, WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SPEAK FREELY, AND FOR ME GROWING UP IN THE TIMEFRAME THAT I GREW UP, IT WAS A REALLY BIG THING NOT TO BE ABLE TO SAY WHAT YOU THINK. SO WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT, HEY, YOU CAN SAY WHAT YOU THINK AGAIN, IT WAS EVERYTHING FOR ME.

>> FERNANDO, GOVERNOR MARTINEZ WAS WITH YOU GUYS IN CLEVELAND A LITTLE BIT. SHE PARTICIPATED. SHE HAD A VIDEO. SHE'S THE HEAD OF THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR'S ASSOCIATION, SO SHE HAD AN OFFICIAL ROLE. BUT SHE ALL THE WAY LEADING UP THERE REFUSED TO ENDORSE HIM, AND THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN TALK TO HER FOR THE VICE-PRESIDENT ROLE, BUT SHE WOULDN'T EVEN TAKE HIS CALLS. DOES THAT MAKE THINGS HARD FOR YOU THAT MARTINEZ HAS NOT BEEN BEHIND TRUMP? >> NO, IT DOESN'T. FRANKLY, SHE'S ENTITLED TO HER VIEWS. SHE'S A VERY SOLID REPUBLICAN, A PERSON WHO HAS LED OUR STATE IN A VERY EFFECTIVE MANNER, AND I THINK SHE HAS A RIGHT TO FEEL THE WAY SHE DOES. >> SENATOR TED CRUZ GAVE A CONTROVERSIAL SPEECH AT THE CONVENTION, I KNOW I WAS RIVETED ON MY SOFA, AND HE TOLD THE AUDIENCE, VOTE YOUR CONSCIOUS. HE DID NOT ENDORSE TRUMP. AND THAT GOT A TON OF BOOS. DID YOU BOO HIM?

>> I FELT REALLY, REALLY BAD, REALLY BAD ABOUT TED CRUZ, BECAUSE IT TOOK ME BACK TO DONALD TRUMP WHEN HE WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, HE PUTS HIS HAND ON THE BIBLE -- LYING TED, HE PUTS HIS HAND ON THE BIBLE, AND THEN HE PUTS THE BIBLE DOWN AND THEN HE LIES, AND THAT'S BASICALLY HOW I FELT. I FELT LIKE HE, BEING A CHRISTIAN, SAYING THAT HE'S A CHRISTIAN, STANDING UP A AS CHRISTIAN ON THE NATIONAL SCENE, FOR HIM NOT TO FORGIVE, LOVE AND FORGET, FOR ME IT WAS A BIG DEAL. >> SO DID YOU BOO HIM? >> UMM, PROBABLY. >> THIS SPRING, LEADING UP TO THE CONVENTION, CRUZ WAS LEADING IN THE POLLS. IT WAS NARROW, BUT HE WAS AHEAD, HE WAS BEATING TRUMP IN THE JUNE PRIMARY. HE GOT 13% OF THE VOTE, EVEN THOUGH HE HAD ALREADY DROPPED OUT BEFORE ABSENTEE VOTING, BEFORE EARLY VOTING. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE 14,000 NEW MEXICO REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED FOR CRUZ KNOWING IT WOULD MAKE NO DIFFERENCE? >> WELL, CRUZ, I THINK,

OFFERED SOME SOLUTIONS AND WHATNOT, BUT WE NEED A STRONG LEADERSHIP, AND TRUMP IS THE ONLY CANDIDATE WHO OFFERS THAT IN MY VIEW. >> THIS WEEK AT THE CONVENTION, MANY LATINO SPEAKERS CRITICIZED DONALD TRUMP'S COMMENTS ABOUT HISPANICS. HE DESCRIBED IMMIGRANTS FROM MEXICO AS DRUG DEALERS AND RAPISTS, HE REPEATEDLY SAID THAT A HISPANIC FEDERAL JUDGE COULDN'T BE FAIR BECAUSE OF HIS RACE, HE LATER TRIED TO APPEAL TO LATINO VOTERS BY TWEETING A PICTURE OF HIMSELF WITH A TACO BOWL. HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO NEW MEXICANS WHO SAY, THIS GUY'S RACIST? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, HE REALLY IS NOT RACIST. I AM HISPANIC, I AM AN HISPANIC FEMALE, SO THAT'S HISPANIC AND FEMALE, AND I BELIEVE IN DONALD TRUMP 100%. I THINK IF PEOPLE LOOKED AT IT A LITTLE CLOSER, THEY WOULD SEE THAT, IN ESSENCE, HE IS REALLY GOING TO BE DOING THE PEOPLE -- FOR INSTANCE, LET'S JUST TALK

ABOUT MEXICO, BECAUSE I LIVE IN THE SOUTH VALLEY, I LIVE AROUND PEOPLE THAT ARE FROM MEXICO, SO I UNDERSTAND THAT PORTION OF IT, AND I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY HE'S GOING TO HELP THOSE PEOPLE. KIND OF HARD TO SAY IN THE WAY IT COMES ACROSS ON THE PRESS, BUT HE'S GOING TO HELP THOSE PEOPLE BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO HELP THEM TO BECOME LEGAL. I HAVE A LOT OF FRIENDS THAT ARE MEXICAN, AND IT'S HARD FOR THEM, THEY'RE NOT COMFORTABLE BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT OFFICIALLY LEGAL, AND I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT'S ASPECT OF DONALD J. TRUMP. >> LET ME ASK YOU, FERNANDO, DID ANY OF THOSE COMMENTS GIVE YOU PAUSE? DID THEY MAKE YOU THINK FOR A MINUTE, DOES DONALD TRUMP, DOES HE REALLY CARE ABOUT LATINO AMERICANS? >> NO, YOU KNOW, NEVER DID BOTHER ME. GRANTED, SOME FOLKS MAY HAVE REACTED ADVERSELY, AND I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY. THE COMMENTS WERE TAKEN IN THEIR RAW FORM IN SORT OF A NEGATIVE MANNER. BUT REALLY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT DONALD TRUMP'S RECORD OF

HIRING HISPANICS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, AND ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THE WAY HE'S PROMOTED THEM, I THINK HE'S PROVEN THAT HE'S NOT A RACIST BY ANY MEANS. >> YOU MENTIONED THE WORKERS. HE'S BEEN SUED BY MORE THAN 3000 PEOPLE WHO HAVE SAID HE DIDN'T PAY THEM PROPERLY, AND THIS WEEK HE INVITED RUSSIA TO HACK US. SO IN TERMS OF BUSINESS, IN TERMS OF NATIONAL SECURITY, HOW DO YOU PERSUADE PEOPLE WHO HAVE QUALMS THAT THEY CAN TRUST HIM? >> I THINK WITHOUT QUESTION WE CAN TRUST DONALD TRUMP. HE'S A MAN WHO HAS PROVEN HIMSELF IN THE BUSINESS WORLD. CECILIA AND I HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS OURSELVES, WE KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE. WE KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO SIGN THE CHECK, AND NOT SIMPLY THE BACK OF THE CHECK, BUT THE ACTUAL CHECK. AND HE'S SIGNED PLENTY OF THOSE, BELIEVE ME. AND SOMETIMES THINGS TURN THE WRONG WAY IN TERMS OF

BUSINESS AND YOU'RE FORCED TO DO CERTAIN THINGS THAT YOU DON'T LIKE TO DO, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENED TO HIM. LOOK AT ALL THE BUSINESSES HE'S RUN WORLDWIDE. THERE'S BOUND TO HAVE BEEN SOME PROBLEMS. >> CECILIA, ONE FACE WE DID NOT SEE ON THE TV AT THE CONVENTION WAS FORMER NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR GARY JOHNSON. HE'S RUNNING AS A LIBERTARIAN. HE'S POLLING ABOUT NINE PERCENT RIGHT NOW. WHY SHOULDN'T NEW MEXICO THINK ABOUT OUR HOMETOWN GUY? >> WELL, I THINK IT GETS BACK TO WHAT DO YOU THINK PERSONALLY. WHO ARE YOU PERSONALLY. PERSONALLY, FOR ME, I LOVE GARY. I THINK HE'S A GREAT GUY. HE'S JUST A WONDERFUL PERSONALITY, JUST A WONDERFUL GUY, BUT HE'S NOT WHO I WOULD PERSONALLY WANT FOR PRESIDENT. SO I THINK IT GETS BACK TO JUST INDIVIDUALS. >> AGAIN LOOKING AT THE POLLS RIGHT NOW -- >> DO YOU REALLY WANT SOMEONE ADVOCATING THE LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA AND OTHER DRUGS, AND ALL

DRUGS? >> RIGHT NOW, THE POLLS MAKE IT LOOK LIKE HILLARY IS GOING TO WIN NEW MEXICO AND SHE'S GOING TO WIN THE ELECTION. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO MAKE SURE THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN? >> WE'RE GOING TO GET OUT THERE AND KNOCK ON DOORS, WE'RE GOING TO GET ON THE PHONE, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A LOT OF CALLS, WE'RE GOING TO PURSUE THIS CAMPAIGN AGGRESSIVELY BECAUSE THIS COUNTRY IS IN TROUBLE, IT'S IN SERIOUS TROUBLE, AND WE NEED SOMEONE LIKE -- WE NEED DONALD TRUMP, SPECIFICALLY, TO LEAD THIS COUNTRY OUT OF THE CONDITION THAT IT'S IN. >> CECILIA, WE DON'T HAVE THAT MANY ELEVATORS IN NEW MEXICO, BUT IF YOU WERE IN ONE OF THEM, WHAT IS YOUR THREE SENTENCE ELEVATOR SPEECH TO SOMEONE WHO IS NOT TOTALLY PERSUADED FOR TRUMP YET? WHAT DO YOU TELL THEM? >> DONALD TRUMP IS A COMPASSIONATED GOOD-HEARTED MAN THAT WILL HELP OUR ECONOMY AND KEEP US SAFE. >> THAT'S GREAT. THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR COMING IN AND TALKING TO US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCES. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US. >> I'M GENE GRANT. THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS

WEEK FOR NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. AND AS ALWAYS, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORT TO STAY INFORMED AND ENGAGED. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK,