2010 Albuquerque Public School Gubernatorial Debate

and those turning into webcasts, including that provided by APS EDU. We do have interpreters in the back for Spanish translators, for anybody who would like to utilize this service. So in the spirit of community engagement, we're privileged to witness a frank exchange of thoughts and ideas between New Mexico's two distinguished two in their royal candidates, Republicans, Susanna Martinez, and Democrat Diane Dash. Algrady Public Schools, by far, our largest district is proud to possessing that. Algrady kids, young people, are among New Mexico's best, our nation's best, and we're thrilled to introduce some of them to you this evening. Our discussion will focus on perhaps the most complex issue of our time, education. It's no secret that New Mexico's public education system faces its most trying era

since our state joined the union nearly a hundred years ago. Cuts to school district projects and the expansion of the myriad roles schools must play in a young person's life that created major headaches in our classrooms, boardrooms. And so an entire state looks to these leaders for answers. Tonight we hope to get some of those answers. Not even quick to live some bucks, but with substantive thoughtful plans on how we can make New Mexico's public education system a jewel for the nation to admire. We are capable. We look forward to hearing the ideas of Miss Sanish and Miss Martinez because we know that our state's future depends to a great extent on what they can bring to the table when one of them becomes Southern. With this as a contextual backdrop, let me thank you once

again for coming. And let me remind all of us that we're here to serve our children as board member Dolores Gray will always remind us. We can do that by practicing what we preach to them. Respect, courtesy, and enthusiasm about the future. And now please allow me to introduce my fellow Albuquerque public school board members. I'd like to start with our president, Marlene Siret. Please stand. Vice President Paula Mayus. Secretary Dolores Stragle. Chair of our Finance Committee, Mr. David Robbins. Our version of the SPOC, Dr. David Piersi.

And of course, the distinguished Mr. Robert Wussel. So I'll be half of my fellow board members and our 90 ,000 -plus children. I thank you for carrying it off about public education to be here tonight. And now it gives me great pleasure to introduce the moderator of our debate this evening. Superintendent Winston Brooks. Thank you, Mr. Garcia. And thanks again to all our school board members. They're truly servant leaders. And I'd like for you all once again to give our school board members all school board members around the world. At this time, it is my pleasure to introduce the two candidates. Representing the Democratic Party tonight

is Lieutenant Governor Diane Ditch. She is a native of Hobbs. She has served as Lieutenant Governor for the past eight years. And was a business woman and community leader prior to entering politics. Lieutenant Governor, thank you for being here. Thank you. Thank you very much. Sorry. This is Donald Martinez. Mr. Martinez is the district attorney in Dona Yada County. A long time resident of Las Cruces. Mr. Martinez has served our state in law enforcement since 1996, but welcome district attorney Martinez. Now, before we begin,

I'd like to introduce some people who are helping us tonight. In just a moment, you're going to meet a district -wide junior J .R .O .D .C. team, which will present the flags of our state and our country. And then Rio Grande, high school students Zach and I will lead us in the flag of allegiance in both English and Spanish. Please stand. Before the color guard joins us, please join me in just a moment of silence for Charles M. High, who attended El Rao High School, and was still in Afghanistan this week. Please remain standing until the color guard has left the stage. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United

States of America and to the Republic, for which it stands one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Here, with honor, ready, let's vote, the Father. Please, come on. Water, mark. Water, mark. Water, mark.

Please be seated. With so many dignitaries in the audience and I, it's impossible to recognize everyone. But I would like to especially thank our student ushers and volunteers representing various schools and district offices. We also have a group of student reporters from five of our high schools, you would see me. When you see these time students and others in the audience, please remember that they are a small example of the many great kids that we have here in our

group. As superintendent, I am extremely proud of these of them. I'm also proud of our teachers, our principals, and our support staff. Our candidates may not agree on some things tonight, but I can speak with confidence only both of them that they share my pride in our students and our faculty. We're just about ready to begin. But before we do, let me go over the ground rules for the debate, which to be agreed to by both of the candidates. First, please turn off your phones, or anything else that you may have that might disrupt the debate. Unless you are a member of the media, photography is not allowed. Yesterday, the candidates asked the point to determine the order for the debate. Ms. Denish will deliver her opening statement first. Each candidate will

have two minutes for an opening statement and then two minutes for a closing statement. Each candidate will have two minutes to respond to each question and one minute for a rebuttal. The rebuttal will follow the same order as the questioning. If the candidate requests the question to be repeated, the time we're answering that question goes on. We will not repeat the question for a rebuttal. Directly ahead of us is our timekeeper for the seating Ms. Brenda Yeager. Brenda will cue us at one minute at one minute. And then again at 30 seconds. Once Brenda has signaled that time to the speaker, the time has expired. I will allow the candidate to complete her sentence and then let her know that time has expired. If the candidate continues to speak, a person with the cane, no.

If the candidate continues to speak, Brenda will ring a bell. So far it's so good. There should not be any noise from the audience. Please no clapping, unrelated or obvious behavior that would distract the candidates and seal time from their answers. We are ready to begin. Ms. Sandwich, you are the first to present an opening statement. Good evening. Thank you Superintendent Brooks, to APS, to our audience, and thank you Susanna for joining us here tonight. It's appropriate that this first debate focuses on public education. This week, school started in New Mexico, and public education is important. I have a personal stake in public education in New Mexico. From beginning to end, I'm a product of New Mexico public schools.

My children attended public schools in New Mexico. And when we moved from Farmington to Albuquerque, all three of them attended APS. But more importantly, yesterday, my granddaughter Sadie started the second grade in Albuquerque public schools. So for me, public education is a value, and it's personal. And as a parent, I want what every parent wants, a school system that gets each and every child the opportunity they deserve. That's why last week, I voted no to across the board cuts to public agency cuts, because that would mean cuts to public education. My opponent, when asked, failed to tell New Mexicans how she would have voted that day. But let's agree with the outset. No one, including me, is happy with the status quo. We have to reform and transform our schools. But now is the time to strengthen public education, to make it work. We have

to support our teachers, because teachers are parents too. And they need a plan that works for New Mexico. And let's be clear, we will not, we will not improve education by cutting money from education. My opponent supports a voucher plan, taking public school money and putting it in wealthy private schools. For me, that is unacceptable. Tonight, I look forward to a thoughtful discussion of these issues. Thank you. Thank you. And now, Ms. Martinez. First and foremost, I'd like to give, from mom behalf of my family and my campaign team, our deepest condolences to private Charles Highs, the fourth, his family, for giving the ultimate sacrifice for our country. Our prayers and thoughts are with him. You know, my commitment is to the public schools. My commitment is to the teachers and the students in the classroom. And the reason that is, is

because there were two teachers in my life that impacted me to this day. Mary Smith and Emma Ross took a bunch of ninth grade girls in class and sat down and we talked about where we wanted to be in life, 20 years from that day. What we wanted to accomplish, did we want to go to school, college, what was our profession going to be? It allowed us to start to dream and set goals. And we did. They asked me specifically and I said, I wanted to be involved in public service. I found it to be honorable service. And so what I told them was, I thought I wanted to be involved and maybe be a mayor, maybe get involved in that kind of public service. And then the question was, what do you want to do after that? And I hadn't given it any thought beyond that. They taught me, those teachers were so meaningful to me in setting the pathway for me to think beyond the first step. They taught me to set the standard high and to meet those standards. And today, I'm here speaking to you about my

plans. My plans to reform our public education, empower our teachers and make sure our students are graduating. My commitment is to those teachers and those students in the classroom. And that's because of those two ladies that have laid out the groundwork for me today to be here and to speak to you about my vision. I thank you for that opportunity. Thank you both. And now to the question of the debate. Ms. Martinez. Less than a fourth of the New Mexico schools made adequate yearly progress this year. Which is determined by annual goals set out in the federal notes hall that are behind at. Some educators are critical of the act, saying that it's unrealistic. It says goals and unmeasurable targets. What is your opinion of notes hall that are behind? Will you keep it as this,

end it, or bend it? No child left behind added accountability to student achievement. However, there are some flaws to no child left behind. It doesn't measure progress of a child throughout a school year. And we fail to measure that progress. You know, in my plan, I propose that we, that students throughout a school year, submit to short cycle assessments. You know, when you do know child left behind, you get tested in March or April. And the test results don't come in until the beginning or towards the end of the summer beginning of the next year. That child has already been done to the next year. What short cycle assessments do is they provide meaningful testing. It brings the results within days of that test and allows the teacher to amend the curriculum so that they can focus in on the children that aren't learning the material. And they take a test again in the summer and again in the middle of the year and again at the end of the school year. They're measuring progress, even in this incremental, but the testing is meaningful

because then they adjust. We have to provide this sort of testing to our kids because we need to reward success. But more importantly, we have to determine which ones are the struggling kids, which schools are struggling so that we move those resources towards those kids. I propose 65 % of the education dollar to be in the classroom with the teacher and the students. With 65%, they bring $75 ,000 ,000 from the bureaucracy into the classroom to make sure our kids are succeeding. We're bringing tutors to the program, we're making sure the kids are succeeding. Just like the added program, it now occurred to you called schools. It's not in every school, it's only in a few. But it challenges those kids that are at risk, may some successful, but we can do that across the board for all our children. Missed them. Thank you. Well, if there's one thing that we learned from no child left behind, it's that one size does not fill all. AYP is an offshoot, is a rim of no child left behind. We

know that when our kids come home from school and they've made nine out of ten correct answers, they've got a 90 out of 100, we don't say shame on you, you fail. We say good for you, maybe next time we'll work a little harder, we'll fill in the blanks and we'll get to 100. We should treat our schools the same way. AYP, we fail now, has serious, serious flaws. AYP needs correcting so that we report on progress of our schools and growth in our student programs. But in all my travels around New Mexico, to dozens and dozens of schools, talking to hundreds of parents and hundreds of teachers and students, never in my time have I had one of them say, we want more tests. Today, our teachers spend 30 days of their school year

preparing for tests required by no child left behind. When you have no experience fighting for public education, you can easily pull a $74 million figure out of a hat and say, we need to take, put that back into the classroom. We all agree, we need to have a lean bureaucracy. But my opponent needs to tell us, when she cuts the bureaucracy, does that mean the school librarian? Does it mean the school nurse? Does it mean the janitor who keeps our schools clean? When you have no experience in fighting for public education, you don't know what that means, but New Mexicans want answers. Thank you. Mrs. Martin, you have one minute to go. You know, in the last eight years, the Richardson Dentist Administration has grown government by 54%, which is not consistent with population inflation. And so there's definitely ways to be cut. There's no doubt about that. Where the waste can be cut is the Department of

Education, Secretary of Cabinet Secretary, where there used to be two legal individuals who were two individuals in the legal department. And now there are eight. Nothing can change. Our kids are still, New Mexico still grants 49th in education, in the country. It's unacceptable. We can't have four or more years, or the last eight years, and the failed policies have taken place. We have to have bold change. We have to make sure that we are addressing the needs of our students. Now, and the tests and measuring that progress, how else are you going to measure the progress? If you're not testing them, if you don't know where they are, they're learning the material. My proposal is to measure progress rewarded, and when we have struggling kids, make sure that we target it with resources. Thank you. Well, once again, let me say, when you have no experience in fighting for public education, it's easy to say I have the magic wand, but I have a record of fighting for public education, for improved teacher salaries,

for early childhood education, for 17 ,000 New Mexico 40 year olds. I'm proud of that record. Do we need to make sure that we're spending our resources appropriately in the classroom? Absolutely we do. But we need to give our schools the support that they need. We need to give our teachers and our administration, especially in small schools, the technical support that they need to make sure that they're spending every single dollar, efficiently, in our classroom. And as far as the budget growing in public education, my opponent's budget, in her own office, grew 70 % at the same time. Maybe that's where the budget cutting should start. Okay, we'll move to question number two. And back question one, we'll be going to this niche. Considering New Mexico's education funding crisis and the impending loss of federal stimulus funding, would you support specific revenue enhancements for public

education, or would you suggest specific budget cuts to support public education? Thank you. First of all, I believe we need to fully fund public education in New Mexico. We can improve our schools unless we have a commitment to fully funding public education in New Mexico. But we need to start somewhere else, no cuts to education. I propose a $450 million plan for the next five years to cut $90 million from state government. Cutting exams, smart reorganization plans, using technology in a smarter way, and the voluntary buyouts for government employees, every bit of that without cutting one single dollar to public education. We need to give our schools the opportunity to cut their budgets as they see fit. But we do not need to cut resources in the classroom, quality teaching, quality professional

development. We don't need larger class sides. We need to make a strong commitment to public education by fully funding public education in New Mexico. I believe there are other ways. We can look for tax loopholes that exist in New Mexico to close those tax loopholes, to enforce permitting fees and the things that are being collected. We need to do all of those things that we can, but we need to tighten our belt in state government and not cut a single dollar to public education. Thank you. Ms. Martinez. Diane, you have been second in charge, second in command of the state, and where have you been with all of those plans the last eight years? We cannot afford to raise taxes on our families or on our businesses in New Mexico. They are barely making it now. Enhancement revenue enhances, but another word for taxes.

I do not support cutting public education. But because you grew government by 54%, there's places to cut. And we can cut. We have to make sure that we do not cut public schools. That is my commitment. We have to make sure that at the end of the day, our kids receive the education they deserve. My plan is to play 65 cents to every dollar, every education dollar into the classroom. Right now, 61 % makes it into the classroom. That's a $74 million in justice from the bureaucracy into the classroom, so that we can be the needs of our kids. You know what it was about money? Money was the only answer to improving our public education. Diane, 80 % of our kids right now don't reign proficiently in the fourth grade. You have failed our kids, and you've been at the front of the table, cheering the rich and denish education reform. We have

not done. You have not done. What is necessary for us to do? Okay, Ms. Angel, one minute remote. Thank you. Well, first of all, I was the first person, the first public official to say no to more taxes on our family. No to the food taxes, no to more taxes on our hardworking families in New Mexico. But my opponent, she's not being straight with you. For months, she is advocated about your program, taking public money out of public schools and putting it into private schools. Today, she wants you to think it's something else, but she's not telling you the truth. Tax credits. That's just another name with a middle man in the middle that takes revenue out of our general fund and cuts the money that could go to public education. Susanna Martinez needs to be straight with the New Mexico. New Mexicans are

tired of that kind of double speed. Ms. Martinez, one minute. I support public choice. The ability for teachers, we prepare to decide whether children should go to school. I think that they should decide whether they go to charter school, private school, Christian school, magnet school. That is the right of every parent to decide whether children should go to school. What my plan does is we don't track children who are financially unable to escape a failing school. It's morally wrong to track children in those failing schools because they don't have the financial resources to get out. What has to happen is we need to make sure that private dollars are available to those students. Not tax dollars. My proposal does not include tax dollars. In fact, those schools that are struggling and those students who have been identified, we're going to actually put in more resources into that school because every student in that school deserves to achieve and progress. But we have

to give them tax credits to those who are donating because you don't like to give businesses a tax credit. If employers, you have a gym membership to their employees. It's better to put in the soul. Okay. The next question, we'll go to Ms. Martinez. What will you do during your administration to address the achievement gap and make sure that all students have the opportunity to succeed? The first thing that we have to do to close the achievement gap is to identify as certainly students. We cannot focus and target our resources unless we identify as students. We have to be able to test them in a way that is meaningful when we get the results back quickly. Our teacher can then be empowered to be part of that short cycle assessment testing that takes place. And then immediately place those resources in the classroom as tutoring, after school program, summer program, Abbott, the program that was created here in

Albuquerque, in view of the schools. But in every child, it has an opportunity to be part of those programs. You know, in Florida, what we need to do is an achievement gap and a gap is to close that gap, is to make sure we're not just focusing on a particular race. We need to focus on all kids, 25 % of the lower student students all have an opportunity to progress in a chief. We're not doing that right now. In Florida, there was a program where they focused on those resources that put it in after school programs. They made sure that they were being targeted. And now the Hispanic children in Florida out -to -achieve all students in 31 different states. We have to make sure we give an opportunity to all kids, whether they're Hispanic, Anglo, Native American, African American, Asian. It doesn't matter. We have to focus on the struggling kids in schools and give the teachers the tools that they need so that they can measure those kids and give them the opportunity to

succeed. But for more years of the same last day, isn't it amazing? To close our achievement gap, we must invest in the early childhood education. New Mexicans know and they understand that the best predictor of child's future success is their early childhood education. In New Mexico, in pre -K, the first three years of pre -K, the children who had access to four -year -old pre -K had a 24 % performance rate over and above of those who did not have access to four -year -old pre -K in New Mexico. And we need to rally around our schools that are low -performing schools. Let me give you an example. At La Mesa Elementary School in Albuquerque, they have a community school. La Mesa Presbyterian Church provides an arts academy for after -school program for tutoring for extended

education. Roadrunner Food Bank provides a food pantry and that engages the parents in that school. The local health community health clinic brings over Dennis for dental checkups in that school. And the business community provides tutors for reading in that school. Those are the kind of resources in these tough times that we need to put into our school, into our schools making them community schools. Because that's the way we're going to close the achievement gap. And lastly, we need to give our kids a meaningful high school experience that shows them the path that the workforce, to the military, to the college education. Our kids want hands -on learning and we need to give our teachers the resources to provide that. That will close the achievement gap. In the early childhood, that will help improve the graduation rate in our public schools.

And most of all, it will give our kids an opportunity for a successful life. As for kids. I certainly support really childhood education and the pre -capable program in particular. But we have to make sure that we're not signing off money for other social programs. We have to make sure that the kids in pre -K, three -year -olds and four -year -olds, those kids are at risk of receiving the maximum resources. But when this program started, we started to focus in on at -risk kids. At this time, we lost the children by the turn of the fourth grade. We can't have only 20 % of our fourth graders reading an achievement level. It's unacceptable. We can't compete globally in our economy. We can't be losing nearly 40 % of our kids before they graduate high school. Diane, you took office in 2003 and you said, hold me accountable for our graduation rates. Hold me accountable because we've set all children to read by the time they're in the third grade. I'm holding you accountable,

Diane. Our children aren't graduating at the rate they should be and they're not reading and writing at the grade they should be. I don't think we should insult the people in this audience. You're an educated audience. You know that teachers are working hard every single day. You know and you were proud when New Mexico's graduation rate increased 6 % from 2008 to 2009. And you know and you understand that 17 ,000 kids have the opportunity to be in four -year -old pre -K in New Mexico. You know that that has produced substantive results. 24 % of those kids do better than kids without pre -K. That's the kind of investment we need to make to close the achievement gap. Because the best predictor of a child's future success is their ability to improve their vocabulary, improve their literacy skills, and be able to read when they go to first

grade. Thank you. Okay, question number four will go to this finish first. The Supreme Court has ruled and applied our verses though that all children in the United States will be educated and educated in our public schools. How will you as governor address concerns about educating children of illegal immigrants? First of all, I think we agree that we need comprehensive immigration reform across this country. That's a responsibility of the federal government. We need to be stakeholders and have a voice at the table. But I agree with Superintendent Brooks when he said a few weeks ago when a child comes to our door we need to give them an education. And I don't know about you, but I have never met a child that can pick where they're born. I've never met a child who can tell their parents where they want to live. And I believe that every child deserves an education. And not

only is it morally reprehensible to turn away a child at our schoolhouse stores, it's the law of the land. The Supreme Court says we must educate every child in public education. Thank you. Thank you. Ms. Martinez? We do agree that there needs to be comprehensive immigration reform in our country. But we disagree on how that needs to be done. I've been very focused on securing our border and making sure that we provide for Mexicans and individuals live here. And we must not deny an education to any student, any child that lives in New Mexico. But we also, I support that we provide those students with resources that are necessary. And frankly our federal government has failed us by not providing substantive immigration reform. And I will be strong advocate in Washington for the funds that are necessary to come to New Mexico because we are educating

students that aren't here in this country legally. It is a burden on New Mexico taxpayers. And we have to advocate for those funds. In the very same way I advocated for those funds in the Southwest Border Prosecutor Initiative, which allowed us to have funds for prosecutors in the courtroom in our office, not to secure the border because prosecutors aren't going to put books on the ground. They're going to be in courtroom, fighting crime. Of those individuals who come here to intend to cause this harm. But I wanted to make sure those kids that are here in New Mexico are being educated. But we have to make sure the federal government stands up and gives us those resources because they have failed us. And again this administration and the policies of this administration are making New Mexico more and more attractive for illegal immigrants by providing briars licenses and making it more attractive by providing sanctuary policies that exist throughout the state and your administration. Okay, this next one minute remote.

Thank you. Again we agree that we need comprehensive immigration reform. And we all agree that we need more border security, better technology, more boots on the ground. My opponent likes to talk a good game about border security. But if you read the news lately, she gave $477 ,000 to people in her office that was supposed to be spent on border security in New Mexico. I don't see any of our teachers getting big bonuses like that. I don't see, I barely see teachers getting a fair salary. So when it comes to educating our children, her plan to take money out of our public schools and put it into wealthy private schools, in combination with her giving away border security money, that's the kind of double speak that New Mexicans don't like. This is for teammates. You know, for every day and I expected you to do your homework

a little better than that. Southwest Border Prosecutor Initiative actually is funding for the additional work that is done by prosecutors that should be done by the federal prosecutors and isn't. That is where we provide salaries to prosecutors for handling an extra load because the federal government is sailing us. It's not to put prosecutors on the board or to secure it. It is actually meant to be for equipment for prosecutors. It's meant for salaries for prosecutors. It's meant so that we can fight in the courtroom against individuals of come to this country who want to cause a car. I really didn't expect you to do your homework a little bit better than that topic. Okay, the next question we'll go to Ms. Martinez. That question is, how will you address issues as documented by the legislative finance committee regarding charter school funding, accountability, efficacy, and facilities during your administration?

Again, I certainly support parents having a choice of where to place their children for school. We charge school, maddened school, wherever they want to be. But I think we have to make sure that we maintain the autonomy of those charter schools but it has to be greater accountability, particularly fiscal responsibility. Those schools are funded by taxed uppers and therefore it's important that those tax dollars are accounted for. They have to be accountable to the school board that actually is authorizing them to exist. We have to account for every single dollar but I would also implement in those charter schools the short cycle assessments so that we're measuring all schools that are supported by public tax dollars that all students are achieving in progressing so that when they're tested at the different levels of the year, then they're ready to take that AYP test and they're also ready to meet the goals of that exam. But again, there has to be additional accountability. You can't have salaries going down, you

can't have spending taking place with tax dollars without all of us knowing exactly where those dollars are being sent. It's important to us and that's what we need to do is tack them and make sure they're audits. They're regular audits just like our public schools are taking place. Well, not all our public schools actually. They're quite a few schools at this time that haven't had a knot in several years. It's an excuse. There has to be an audit every single year. These are tax dollars that are not plentiful and we have to take care of each one of them. Thank you, Ms. Doge. Thank you for that question. First of all, I want to address the subject of choice. In New Mexico, I'm proud to say kids do have choice. They have public schools. They have a robust charter system. We have magnet schools. We have alternative schools. We have home schooling programs in New Mexico. And kids can choose to go to private schools or parochial schools. Kids do have choice. When it comes to charter schools, I support not a more thorium on charter schools. I support a smart

quality cap. What does that mean? That means that we take the schools that are working, the charter models that are working, and replicate those charters. And we have lots of examples of where that's happening. The science and technology school. The Native American Charter Academy. Those schools are working for people in New Mexico. And next week, we'll open the A school, a partnership between charter schools and the private sector. The Association of General Contractor. And the best part about it, if they have the same requirements that public schools do. It's important that charter schools have the same requirements for fiscal responsibility that we want in our public schools. But they also will be teaching four math courses and three science courses. And they'll be giving kids that hands on learning. So let's take those charter schools that made AYP all

across New Mexico. I think 85 % of charter schools made AYP. Let's replicate the success models and have a smart growth cap for charter schools in New Mexico. Thank you, Ms. Martinez. I certainly support our charter schools and the autonomy that they provide. Because not all kids can learn in the same traditional environment as public schools. And I support school choice even outside of the public system. Because our parents have that right to decide for their kids where they're going to go to school. And how they're going to be taught. I think charter schools provide a wonderful opportunity. And it allows kids to focus in their various specialties in their schools. You have a school that's about to start here in Albuquerque. It is very high in technology. I think it's important that those will be available to kids. But if you're going to spend our tax dollars,

you have to be held accountable. You have to go through those state audits. We have to make sure that our kids are progressing year to year across the board if you're spending tax dollars. So we agree. Charter schools are a good thing. They are a good choice sometimes for our students. Today, they only serve about 3 % of the 325 ,000 students in New Mexico schools. But you need somebody with experience to make sure that for now on, we institute a smart policy with regard to charter schools. A smart growth policy will take negotiation between school districts, between legislators. And with someone on the fourth floor who has experience. My opponent has no experience in fighting for public education. And no experience in working closely in collaboration with the charter school movement in New Mexico. I'm proud of my history of working closely with people in public education and in the

charter school movement. Now, let's make that cooperative relationship work for the students of New Mexico. Thank you. Okay, thank you. The next question goes to Ms. Demish. How do you define and measure accountability for teachers? Teachers should be measured. Every year's teachers should be evaluated. They should have an evaluation in the classroom as well as on paper. But I think we need to remember this. Every year teachers are given what I call kind of a bingo card. A group of 25 -28 students all who come to them for different circumstances. So when we're evaluating teachers, we need to evaluate them on the progress of their classroom and individual

student growth. We learn from no child left behind and teaching to the test. It simply does not work. We need to have testing that's fair. We don't need more testing. Parents want their teachers teaching. They don't want them spending more days getting ready for tests every year. They want their teachers teaching in the classroom. So when we measure our teacher's progress, we need to give them a fair measurement. We need to evaluate them every year and have a classroom evaluation as well as a paper evaluation. But they need a fair system of evaluation. One that monitors student growth and progress in the classroom. Thank you. Ms. Martinez. What parents really want is to make sure that their children are learning. And the only way to measure that their children are learning is to test them. If you're not giving them the ability to show in through that test how they're progressing and

how do you measure it? An evaluation, we need to tie success of the teacher and an evaluation of the teacher to the success of their children. Their ability to progress, even if it's incremental progression, we need to provide those connections. That's why the race to the top application wasn't received by the State of New Mexico because of our failure to connect the success and the progress of the teacher to the success and the progress of their students. These evaluations done by the end of your class within the school is not going to accomplish it. Parents want to know are the kids learning to read or are they learning to write in the answer and pray right now? No, they're not. We have to improve the system. We can't allow we've got to give our teachers and power them with the tools. Make sure we're focusing in with the money that is necessary for them to have that extra help for those

students. But we're not doing that right now. How is it that you can explain to the people today that testing isn't fair, that high standards aren't something we should achieve? Of course they are. Every child can meet those AYP standards. Students in other parts of this country are meeting those standards. And explain to the people how no child left behind has failed us and how we can improve it because my plan actually does provide how we can improve it. And that is by the short cycle assessment, meaningful testing, and making sure we adjust the curriculum. So every child has the opportunity to succeed. Hey, Mr. Howard. You know from no child left behind that one size does not fit all. It doesn't even come close to coping with New Mexico's diversity, the sizes of our schools, the geographic diversity. It doesn't come close to providing the resources that we need in our school. And we know that more testing is not what

our parents want. It's not when our students need and it's not what we should ask our teachers to do. We want our teachers to be teachers. They need a fair way to be evaluated with on -site evaluation and a paper evaluation. But our poem, she's not being honest with you tonight. More evaluation, a fair evaluation system that takes resources in the classroom. She wants to take money out of public schools and put it into private schools. She supports a voucher program. That's something that none of us should be for. Ms. Martinez. You know, Diane, you can say it over and over again, it's not going to make it true. It's not going to make it true. And you can deny the failures of your administration that's not going to make it true. I support school choice. I support parents' ability to decide where they are going to decide which link up. I want

private funding to be available to children who are trapped and failing schools. It is more, it is reprehensible to trap kids who don't have the financial resources to escape those schools. Instead, you support that. I don't. Private dollars, not tax dollars. In fact, additional dollars will go into the classroom to make sure that all those kids in that school that are struggling make it. You can say it over and over again, but it's just not true. Okay. I kind of forgot how it was supposed to end this, but... We're going to have two more questions. We're going to have two more questions. I'm going to have two more questions. And then we'll have closing

remarks. I believe this question goes to Ms. Martinez. Albuquerque Public Schools has 90 ,000 students. Volume Public Schools has 51. How do you make the names of 8 ,000 Mextra Schools in 89 extremely diverse bourbon and rural school districts? You do it through the community. The local school districts. It's important that how the curriculum is developed is via the community and the school districts, even if they are in small communities such as Enroy. The difference is because you go to schools such as New Guinea, Silver City, where there's a high population of students who English is a second language. And their names in that school district is very different from the kids in Enroy. And so they want to develop a curriculum that meets the needs of those students. But I do think that there needs to be some thought given to whether or not we consolidate administrative duties and administrative

costs without consolidating schools. It's important that those schools remain within our communities. It's important that the decision -making comes from those communities and not from Santa Fe as to what the curriculum should be within those towns. Okay, Ms. Tony. Well, I agree that we have a very diverse set of school districts around New Mexico. Not only does APS at 90 ,000 kids, but three districts serve almost half of New Mexico kids. So we need to make sure that we're giving our teachers the resources they need. We need to fully fund public education in the state of New Mexico. At the same time, we need to look at our rural school districts. Perhaps, as my opponent said, consolidate functions and retain local autonomy in those school districts. We need to make sure that our urban districts have the best internal audit controls. That

they're making sure they're spinning their money wisely and that every school is doing what they need to do. But sometimes we may need to have one principal serving two small schools in an area or one superintendent in a rural district as voluntary retirements occur. Perhaps one superintendent has to make sure that they can't proceed two small school districts. I've been to Roy, my schedule, and Wabbit amount. I spoke to their 2012 graduating class, and that was a total of 13 out of those three combined schools. That's the diversity of New Mexico. I spoke to classes of 400 and 500, 2012 Centennial graduates. That's the diversity of New Mexico. So when we think about how do we serve an urban, rural, school district model in the state of New Mexico, it's not by cutting funds to public education like my opponent

proposes we do with vouchers or tax credits. The take money directly out of public education. It's by fully funding public education, quality teachers, giving our teachers the resources they need. Ms. Martinez. There you go again. Still isn't right. You know, I have to wonder if when you went to Roy, you flew there. Did you take the jet? You spent hundreds of thousands of dollars. I couldn't go on to remedial studies for our kids instead of flying. Those are expenses, the arrogant attitude of spending tax dollars in such a reckless way. I drive for most courses to Santa Fe for the legislative session every time. I drive, I didn't mind. You don't have to fly an expensive jet ticket. Those are wasted

dollars that our kids could be benefiting from. We cannot afford to continue spending money as though it belongs to you or me. We have to make sure that we're accountable to the taxpayer. How many programs did we have developed and given to our certainly students? Be happy for them. Is that right? So on the voucher issue, your Susanna's words, the money should follow the child vouchers. On April 1st in Ontario County, that's what she said. If you don't remember it, Susanna, watch YouTube. Tonight, she wants us to think that was an April Fool's joke on New Mexico. That's not a joke. And she might not think it's important to visit those small communities, to support our schools, to create jobs. But I believe it's important. New Mexicans want their public officials to be in their communities. They want them to visit

Roy, Moscow, Wagon Mall. They want us in Bordesburg. They want us in Farmington. They want us in Yunus. They want us in Zhao. They want us creating jobs. And they want us fully funding public education in New Mexico. So while my opponent can attack, attack, attack, I'm about solutions. I'm about supporting schools and supporting our communities. Okay, this will be the last question. The evening, and it'll go to Ms. Dennis first. It was actually a topic that was referred to earlier this evening. The say auditor has questioned the accounting practices of several school districts. What can be done that has not been done in the past? The whole school district is accountable for saving nationals. Well, first of all, any fraud in our public schools should not be tolerated by anyone. Anyone who's embezzling from our public schools should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But we need to do

things to help our schools be responsible for the money they're sending. First, I would propose putting district school budgets on the Sunshine Portal, which I have created, and a law I sign. It was a bipartisan agreement between me and Senator Rue. We pushed it through the legislature. We now have a Sunshine Portal for the state's checkbook. Let's put the district's checkbook online. So people can see how their district is getting money and how they're sending money. And then they can be a more active voice in their school district. Let's get small districts the opportunity to have some technical assistance when it comes to auditing. Sometimes auditors won't even go to Encina or over to Muscarim. Let's aggregate auditing contracts so that it's possible for them to get a good bank for their butt and incentivize auditing independent auditors to go into our school districts.

But let's make sure that they have the training that they need in small school districts to make sure that there's internal audit checks and that no fraud or waste will be tolerated. And I'll work with the state auditor to make sure the new law is enforced. The new law, which says, if you're not in compliance for your every year, every audit, then we withhold money. You don't get your money until your audit is seen compliance. Those are the kinds of things we can do. Not to our public schools, but for our public schools. Thank you. Thank you. Ms. Martinez. We can also do for public schools is to make sure that money isn't being taken from those public schools by theft and bezel then fraud or spending it in places that it shouldn't be. You know, checks and battles have to be in place in every school to make sure those dollars are being spent in the best way. Three million

dollars were missing from a school district and it went unnoticed for a very long time. There are schools right now in New Mexico and not in Roy and not in little communities like that in larger districts that haven't been audited. That is reckless not to audit our schools to make sure that the tax dollars of being spent correctly. We have to provide the best education and we have to implement the best accounting practices. But the Sunshine Portal is not the total answer because it doesn't provide at real time accounting for how dollars are spent. My plan would implement real time accounting so that every time money spent, tax dollars are spent, they will know where it's going and where it's going to be salary, whether it's going for vehicle, whether it's going for a tow truck, $75 ,000 spent in one of the particular school districts for a tow truck. That was unnecessary because they wanted to spend the dollars before the end of the fiscal year and not

return it to the legislative, not return it to the general fund. That's unacceptable. We have to make sure we're spending those tax dollars in a much more responsible way. APS has buttoned every year. I'm not going to do that. You know, I'm kind of sweating a bit. Okay, I'm sorry. Miss Eddish, you were one never bought. Well, again, we agree that every school needs to be audited every year. We agree that we have to have transparency in school budgets. The Sunshine Portal, it's a good, strong first step. And I'm proud of that Sunshine Portal because it gives our taxpayers transparency in how their tax dollars are spent. And now I can give them transparency in how their district school dollars are spent. And they'll know the real story about where their tax dollars come from and where

their tax dollars are going. And we will have a zero tolerance policy for fraud and abuse in our public schools. Our children, our parents, and our teachers, and New Mexico deserve better than that. Miss Martinez? I forgot the question. And I think the rules are that I'm not supposed to be in the question. Okay. I think certainly the audits are an important start. But the Sunshine Portal doesn't go far enough. We have to make sure that we are giving the information real time to our public. They deserve it. The Sunshine Portal actually was sponsored by Sandra Ruin. And my question is, is why wasn't that proposed long ago? Why weren't some of these solutions proposed long ago? You have been second in command for a very long time. And people expected to hear a voice from the Lieutenant Governor for our kids,

not today when you're running for office, but for the last seven and a half years. And you have stood by silently when fighting that corruption and taking place. When the theft isn't taking place. When the growth of our government is exceeded. Okay. Thank you both. And now the two men are closing remarks from each candidate and we'll begin with Ms. Dungeon. Thank you. Thank you, Superintendent Brooks, members of the audience, APS. And thank you, Susanna, for this discussion tonight. We covered a lot of ground tonight and we've had some agreement and some disagreement. We both agree that no one is happy with the status quo that we have to reform our schools and that every child deserves a quality public education. But there are clear differences. I want to improve our schools and fully fund public education in New Mexico. My

opponent, in spite of what she says, has advocated for months for taking money out of public schools and putting it into private schools. And while I appreciate her newfound passion for education and funding public school education, I stood proudly by Governor Gary Corrothers in 2003. And we went to New Mexico voters and we said, do you want to spend more money on a public education? And those voters said yes. People voted. Except one New Mexico, when you check the Donia Anna County County Clerk's record, Susanna Martinez didn't care enough about education in September of 2003 to go to the polls and vote. So there's a difference and here's the difference. When talking to parents, when talking to students, when talking to teachers across New Mexico, they want somebody who's been a fighter for public education, who's put money and who's fought

for salary increases and quality pre -K. The path to prosperity and success is not prosecution and punishment. The path to prosperity and success in New Mexico for our families is the promise of a job, the promise of a career in the military or the promise of a college education. As a mother and a grandmother, I have a stake in this gang and a personal commitment to public education. As your governor, I will keep that commitment to public education and I will not let our public schools down. If you agree with me that public schools are important, vote for me on November 2nd. Thank you. Ms. Martinez. You know, there's a very clear choice this time. If you think, if you're satisfied with New Mexico being 49 in the nation and education, she's right, vote for Diane Denge. If you're satisfied

with 8 % of our fourth graders, not reading efficiently, she's right. You should vote for Diane Denge. If you think that 50 % of our kids who go to college is freshman, should be receiving with medial studies as they do today. If you're satisfied with that record, you're right. We should vote for Diane Denge. But if you want bold reform, if you want to make a difference in our students' lives, I have committed my line to the children in New Mexico. I have fought hard. You have been at the head of the table for eight years. And what do we have for spending more than $700 million more? Well, I mean, it's more that we don't have a higher achievement level for the millions, hundreds of millions of dollars that have been spent. We have not brought our kids

forward. You talk about a good, strong first step you've had eight years. We cannot have eight more years of the same failing policies. We need someone who's going to bring a change, who's going to hold the system accountable to make sure teachers have the resources and our students who graduate. When you started in 2003, there were fifth graders, kids that are seniors now with fifth graders. We've lost almost 40 % of those kids, but they're not graduating this coming May. That's an unacceptable record. And frankly, Diane, you need a piece of. We need a change. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes this portion of our debate. I don't know about you, but I really do appreciate it. I really

appreciate how you qualified individuals setting up for the play to run such a very important office. And I want to thank both of you for doing that. I would just have one more small bit of business to tend to. I'd like to ask the candidates to remain seated for just a few more minutes, while eighth grader Kendall Beatty of Wilson Middle School, and fourth grader, Steven Miller, and I would like to thank our Maria Hughes on Influential. I'd like to share just a few words with us about the importance of education for them. And then they also have a very small thank you for each of you. Hello, I'm Steven Miller, and I am the fourth grader at Sir at Maria Hughes Elementary.

Education is important because it gives me the ability to do things that would normally take education to do. Education is important to me because being an actor or a director takes education. I want to be a director, and writing is a skill I need to learn to be able to write my own plays. I like math because it is very interesting. I think it is the most used skill in everyday life. I would like to thank my kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Ferris, for serving my elementary education. And teaching

me to read in kindergarten is here of us. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, my name is Kendall Bailey, and I'm from Los Angeles School. Dear Governor, I started eighth grade this year, and it is very important to me that I succeed. And my family education always comes first. To me, education always comes back to responsibility. We need dedicated teachers, and it is a student's responsibility to listen, study, stay focused, and learn. I understand that New Mexico's history is very important, but I also believe that schools need to be equipped with the latest learning materials. Things in school are old fashioned. We use pens and paper every day, but most kids now are more comfortable and familiar with computers. I feel that music, art, and physical education are just as important as the main

subjects in school. Everybody is so focused on math and English, and I don't think that specific subjects are getting my attention that they need. I also think that nutritious meals should be provided in school. I have experience rolling in school, and I just don't pay. I also think that needs more attention, because when kids bring home what they have learned in school, they can also bring home a lot of depression. I hope that my ideas and everything that I have to say inspires you and I hope that you take it into consideration. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Let's thank the candidates one

more time. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, this concludes our debate. On behalf of the Board of Education, I would like to thank both of these five public servants for their time. Ms. Martinez and Ms. Stennis have honored us with their presence as well as their thinking, and allow us to know more about what they believe. We look forward to learning more as the campaign continues, and we wish you all well. Thank you to our pankeeper, and we'd like to give a special thanks to the students from under our rest rule for your help here. We'll all help to coordinate this event. You were wonderful. We'd like to also thank

K8 and WV9 .1FM for providing the library a broadcast of the day. You all were wonderful as an audience. Please look out there and help us get people out of the hall. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.