In Black America; Alexander Palmer Haley

This song reminds you a bit of this music when it comes to digesting something. From the Longhorn Radio Network, the University of Texas at Austin, this is In Black America. Life was revolutionized as of the morning of the first, when they first started telepizing by its nature. Television reaches and in the case of Roots, it reached more than 100 million

people at one time. And when that happens, maybe you don't wish your life to change, but just the fact that all of a sudden that many people are aware of you, recognize your own sight and know a good deal about you, causes your life to change. Sure, absolutely. The late Alexander Palmer Haley noted author and journalist, whose book Roots told the story of the African American experience in this country and inspired a generation of people of all races to search for the ancestors died Monday, February 10th of a heart attack in Seattle. Until the publication and television miniseries Roots, the saga of an American family, Mr. Haley, made a modest reputation as a magazine writer and former Coast Guard chief journalist. Mr. Haley's other works include the autobiography of Malcolm X and Henning, a book about the town that you grew up in in Tennessee. I'm Johnny O'Hanston, Jr. and welcome to another edition of In Black America. This week, I remember to the late Alexander Palmer Haley in Black America.

I suppose maybe seven, eight years before Roots, the reason I'm being hesitant is I wouldn't phrase it just like you. There was never a day, I said, I'm saying, wow, I've got to tell them. But I began to discover that I truly deeply loved trying to write well. And so I worked at it for years, day in, night out. And I guess when I began to realize that it was going to be a career, was when I began to sell enough to magazines that I could make at least a moderate living. And I knew there was nothing I had ever tried, which I liked more than I did writing.

So that was what I was going to keep trying to do. And previous to that, I had been a cook. And I liked that too. At one time, my ambition was to be a chef on a ship. But at night, at sea, was when I began trying to write. And then when I began to sell stuff, I just decided I would try to make a career doing that. Alexander Palmer's Haley's tracing of his African American ancestry back to a tiny village in Gambia, West Africa. Spawned a generation of ancestors seeking and inspired the most ambitious television production ever undertaken to that day. Born on August 11, 1921 at Ithaca, New York, when he was six weeks old, his mother took him to her parents' home in Henning, Tennessee. A small town about 50 miles north of Memphis, Tennessee, where he lived while his father completed work on a master's degree in agriculture at Cornell University. After graduation from high school at the age of 15, Mr. Haley entered a Lidlerville City Teachers College for two years.

In 1939, he joined the U.S. Coast Guard as a mess cook. To alleviate the boredom at sea, he began to write. In 1962, he received an assignment from Playboy to interview jazz trumpeter Miles Davis. This led to the Playboy interview, a new series for the magazine. Later, he was asked to write a feature on the nation of Islam, in which Malcolm X was the spokesperson. That led him being asked by Malcolm to write his autobiography in 1965. After the Malcolm X project, Mr. Haley began what would take 12 years of his life, eight years to research and another three to write. The end product, Roots, the saga of an American family. The book sold millions of copies and has been translated into at least 37 languages. In January of 1977, over a seven-day broadcast schedule, more than 130 million viewers watched a gripping story of his family's monumental surjourn from Africa to American slavery. And ultimately, freedom. Since the initial broadcast of Roots, I had the opportunity to visit with Mr. Haley, first in 1977, then in 1984, and finally in 1988.

The following is the collection of those interviews. I have spoken a lot. I have fought the battle of correspondence as best I can, and simply to say that you get so much mail that comes from people asking things, which are very personal to them. And I'm very close to my mail, and I hate not to respond to that, so I try my best to answer as much as I can, and still don't do probably half of it. And then I have written some, enough that I'm about at this time, about two weeks away from finishing my next book, The Book, which will be titled Hening, which is the name of my little hometown in Tennessee. And it should be turned into the publishers about four weeks from now, after I've been able to two weeks work on it. I recently turned from Africa, and I got a very good feeling when I got to Senegal, and had an opportunity to go to Gory Island and see the Slave House.

When you went back and doing the research for Roots, what type of an emotional feeling did you feel going back to Africa? Well, you know, you're kind of in all, really, if you know the full significance of where you are when you're at Gory. But let me tell you something about you. I was thinking when I walked in that door, I guess you did get an emotional feeling, because if you're around tribes in Africa enough, you get to sort of get some general feeling about tribal configurations, you know, face and all that. And I would bet you, if anything, that if it were possible, you could trace yourself back to your coup de quinter out, but you didn't think you came from the Wall of Tribe. You look like a Wall of. That's what they told me when I was in the village. They wouldn't know you left home. That's the truth. You really do have very, very clear Wall of features. When researching Roots, what gave you the inspiration and the energy to undertake such a difficult task?

It was mostly having begun. And then the more you got the more deeply you got into it, you were kind of in a position that if you didn't go on, you may as well never have started. You know, you just have such an incremental investment. And also the challenge, you know, you are really kind of at that time fighting a bit of a battle with yourself. As to whether or not you've done something worthwhile or something dumb or whatever. And I was frequently having people say to me how dumb this whole thing was. You know, there were people who said that for one thing, I guess I heard most frequent level would come from black scholars who happened to go talking with them about it for one another reason. And a great many of them had the view of what do you want to resurrect slavery for. And it got to the point that I really quit talking too much about what I was doing. And it was principally a personal challenge to see how far could I go with it. I was astounded that I had been able to get as far as I did at certain points.

Because it really all had been had begun with stories told on the front porch of the living room by my grandmother and her sisters about the family. And you know my brother George about George was about two years old when I first heard the story of the family going back to the person whom they called the African who said his name was Kinday. And that meant about as much as you know it is as nothing to me in one sense. And those stories which they told about the family in my mind were sort of car layer to another set of stories I heard in a different locale. And that was biblical parables, you know, like you. Where are you from? I mean natively. natively from Detroit. Oh Lord. Well anyway. I guess you all had Sunday school in Detroit too. But we sure did and Tennessee. But you know you tend to learn these things early. And I often think about it and I sometimes say when talking that.

I guess when I was about 11 years old by that time my head was a jumble of stories that I had heard from adults from one another locale. And it was kind of mixed up like I would you know chicken George and David and go live and miss Kizzi and Moses. They were all kind of mixed up in there. And I would have had to stop and think about where some of them came from. Night after night after night and no given order but just sort of mixing it around talking bit of this and a bit of that. They will talk about the family. They seem to have nothing that interested them as much as the history of their own family. They don't know about a thought of it as formal terms as history. They were just talking about their own family. They talked about their father and mother Tom Murray or blacksmith and his wife Irene. And then they talked about the plantation in Alamance County North Carolina where they had lived and where their father and mother had been slaves.

And they talked about old Mossa and old Mrs. Murray who had owned them. And I remember as a little boy it just sort of struck me as funny. All I didn't say anything Kiz never you didn't say anything and older people talking you kept your mouth shut. But I would wonder to myself it was so funny about somebody owning somebody just didn't sound right. And then they would talk they would start sometimes shaking their heads and make remarks like oh he was just scandalous. And that was a preface to start to talk about the deeds of old sorts of daring do and something used to call sound and terrible called womanizing and so forth. And they were talking about their grandfather somebody called chicken George and used to fight King Cox. And then they would on occasion talk about his mother was very quiet. They said never had a whole lot to say.

But when she would talk people listen close and her name they called up Miss Kizzi. And then they would talk about Miss Kizzi's father. And when they got to him it was almost like he was some character of mythology he was different from the others. And they did not know a great deal about him. And they talked almost hushed about him. He was somebody they called the Africa who said his name was Kinti. And then during the days I would cook all day and in it see there was nothing to do at night. And that was how purely my accident I began to write. Literally how I got stumbled into being a writer which I never even thought about was I used to write lots and lots of letters. And my shipmates knew I did and when we would go ashore in foreign lands like it was Australia and New Zealand. And they would meet girls, the shipgirls that got to see her. Everybody was talking about girls. They wanted to write letters to them. A lot of the guys just couldn't write letters. But they knew I wrote lots of letters and they began to ask me if I'd have right love letters for them. And I'd begin to do it. I would interview them at night. They'd line up and I would say what the hell.

And literally that's the way I stumbled into writing. And most of the guys were white and they'd tell me I'd ask them this and the other about the girls and say like if a guy told me the girl's hair was blonde. And I'd get out in the middle of the ocean. I'd get in some fit of creativity and come up with something like your hair is like the moonlight reflected on the rippling waves. And every night there'd be a bunch of guys carefully copying in their own handwriting. This stuff. And they would give me a dollar of letter. And I'd begin to do pretty well. And that was literally what gave me the first concept that there was something in the writing business. And about the sixth role of Microfilm and just sort of came up through this school. The names of the family that had been talked about on the front porch. And that just galvanized me. And it wasn't that I had not believed my grandma. You did not believe my grandma. But there was something about seeing on Microfilm in the United States National Archives. The very things Grandma and Liz and Georgian plus all they talked about that just fascinated me.

And I began the long research that would ultimately take up nine years of research and three years of writing not done within a sense of as I say great no bill at the end. And I was just hung up with it. And I just wanted to tell it. And at some point in the process, I began to become aware that what I was really dealing with was not so much my family story as it was the symbolic story of a people because all of us who are what we call black people have fundamentally the same basic background story. And be assured that you two have Akuta Kenti, our female equivalent who was born and read somewhere in some West African village who at some point along the way was captured in some manner was put in the hold of some slave ship across the same ocean into some succession of plantations and from that day to there struggled for freedom. When we read through the book six of us and we met at ABC and we talked of scenes we were eliminating scenes getting down to which scenes would we keep in which order.

And after we pretty much agreed I said one afternoon there with us I said look you know guys I would just like to say this not trying to push anything because I wrote it. But just because it was the most emotional part of the book for me to write and I would ask to just be as strong a scene in the film as any other. And that was the scene where Kuta Kenti fought to keep his name and they agreed. So the first thing we do if you want to make a scene powerful is we were shooting in two hour segments you end one segment on that scene that being the finale makes it strong. The other thing was it's a known fact in film it the least of the least dialogue you can have in a film the stronger the film is because it doesn't need to dialogue for support it'll carry itself just visually.

So we had some of the best writers in television Ernie can know Bill Glenn people like that they you would not recognize the names lately but in television they are great names. They worked and worked and worked on that script and finally they got it down to whether it would end the two hour segment would end on the scene and the dialogue was very sparse. So it would be Lava Burton playing Kuta had been told by Fiddler played by Lou Gossett that they overseer played by Vic Morrow. You may remember Vic Morrow tragically lost his life in that helicopter accident some months back with those two children. The master had told the overseer that he wanted to name the slave Toby and the word had come to Kuta that his name would be Toby but he refused to say the word Toby he would always insist his name was Kuta.

Fiddler the old slave who was teaching him to be a slave had tried his best to get him he'd done everything he could Joel he threatened he begged he'd done everything but the young slave just simply refused to say the word Toby. Finally the word had come from the master to the overseer who relished it that he should be beaten to make him say his name was Toby and that was the scene we were focusing on. They headed written Kuta in a loincloth strung up by his wrists at this bar across a thing. Fiddler in disheveled clothing kind of squatted on the ground sitting Indian style on the ground just to the right of Kuta. In part he was there as punishment because he hadn't been successful in making him see his name was Toby and in part he was there to be able to care for him after he was beaten obviously badly he was going to get beaten.

Vic Morrow overseer was wearing a cloak swagger around the tremendous actor he was a beautiful guy he played that scene so effectively he would make me so mad. Sometimes I remember one afternoon I told him and I meant that thing I said I am sorry I created you you know and and the scene was set up we were shooting in Savannah Georgia. We spent a whole morning setting up rehearsing with double doing everything the praying that we could do it in what one take that's the dream of making film that you want to do it over and over and over again. And if the trouble work with it was it was a long scene so if we had to do it over it could take days redoing this thing. And finally everything was set and the director said action and Vic Morrow stroll along the scene and looked over with Kuta up there and he said what's your name boy. And Lavar said Kuta and Vic sort of say a smile and nod at this other slave who had a whip and the guy began wap you know it looks horrible the whip actually is made of loosely woven him but it looks as if it was tearing him apart.

Hit him about three times and of course Lavar would do would converse his body and all that make up blood you know terrible and when he stopped then Vic asked him again and he more weekly he said Kuta. And I think it happened they put through three beating sets on it and then Lavar showing as a script called that he just couldn't physically live through much more voluntarily said. Toby Masa where born Vic turned triumphantly and said let me hear it again what's your name boy and just a little louder Lavar said Toby Masa and then as the script called for. Vic said cut him down and the script called that when he was cut loose his wrist was cut his body he was going to slump and he was going to slump into Lou Gossett's lap and chest and Lou was we had the script Lou was simply going to embrace him and just kind of.

This is a direction they have a master like Ed live you know just sort of mouth something or something like that as he embraced him and we were going to lift the cameras one had three cameras going with Dolby's sound it would pick up any whisper and the cameras were double loaded and we're just going to run a while critical focus and then throw them out of focus so that the two hours would end for the viewers on the film just going out of focus you've seen films do this. But what happened was something that Norman Lear told me one time you said Alex you get the best in the business the best script the best plan and sometimes something will happen out there in front of that camera you couldn't plan to save your life and it happened for us that day in Savannah. When he said cutting down the knife was produced the songs were cut and LaVar slumped beautiful young actors you know he slumped perfectly into Lou's lap and we were expecting to see Lou better actor that he is due just as the script said put his arms around him and just kind of mouth something and sure

of Lou's arms went out but all of a sudden which wasn't in the script Lou's face contorted and burst into tears. Here's Lou gossiped and acting for I don't know how long and there 3035 was standing in a semicircle around riveted because we've almost gotten through a perfect take and here is Lou crying and that wasn't in the script. And we just didn't know what to make of you just don't do that and then the next thing was we saw Lou's mouth open. Now we're seeing of all is to say something when there's no script and Lou opened his mouth. He dressed this boy he convulsed him close to him with his arms and Lou was just weeping and you know something about a man crying Lou wasn't playing around he was not acting he was weeping and Lou looked at him turned his face around and he to LaVar's face around and Lou said what difference it makes what they call you.

You know who you is you's counter when you finish the research and you put the manuscript together. Did you receive any rejections from publishing houses when you initially tried to get to the public. Not no no I didn't you know a funny thing is that story I don't know if you heard it that but for quite a time a story to that effect circulated rather widely that I had a very hard time selling it. That's not true at all the fact was that the publisher practically pulled it out of my typewriter because it had been sold before I finished it it the motion this television rights had been sold. What is her name ruby D the actress ruby D Aussie you know Aussie's wife heard me speaking about the research process.

And then she met David Walper the great producer and David said something about he was looking for something generational of theme. So Ruby told him about what she had heard me talking about and David came looking for me which is sort of like you know the mountain Olympus comes to you. And I was in all you know I was I was I don't know what the proper word is I was beyond all more over I remember I was in Jamaica West Indies because I didn't have enough money to stay here and work as cheaper there. And when he called me he didn't call my manager called me saying that David wanted to buy it just as outright as that. And I really didn't have money enough to get back to this country manager had to send me fair and so I came on back and and you know and everything went beautifully David turned out to be magnificent guy to work with and learn from. And anyway I did not have that problem at all of selling it but rejection slips I got in abundance in my you know early years are trying to be a writer they were from time I started.

I wrote every day I was in the U.S. Coast Guard and I was writing on ships at night because I was a cook by day and I got eight years of steady rejections before I sold the first thing like almost any other writer. What was palm of town USA taking off there was a lack of ratings or well eventually any show is taking off that's what it was it had a very good audience but not big enough an audience to sustain the very very expensive show. It was costing us it was Norman Lear and I was doing that show it was costing us the network in a way about $640,000 an episode and that's a lot of money and we did not have big enough an audience to ultimately to sustain it so like many many other shows it went off. You mentioned a point about your life changing from the many series roots and the books how did that not arrived to affect your other family members were they able to deal with they were somewhat all out.

It happens with every family it happens with all of them the reason for that is that the public of the media and the public clothes in on your family members in ways you just wouldn't expect. For instance the press will start going to your brothers and sisters homes and asking all manners of questions and they are you know they're quiet people who like to live quiet lives and it bothers them and they get upset about it rightfully so. And you who have had all this happened to you are kind of in a position that you have indirectly caused this or you certainly didn't mean to you know and it can generate ill feelings in fact I know I had things like my brothers children people would introduce them and him standing right there their father and they would say this is Alex he was niece and nephew or they would introduce my brother wife as this is my sister in law. And those are things that people are not really aware of they don't mean in a home but they are hurtful.

How did you happen to meet the late Malcolm X and write his autobiography? I had right after I came out of the US coast guard I spent 20 years in the coast guard the first writing assignment I got was from the reader's digest to do an article about the nation of Islam the so called black Muslims. They colloquially called black Muslim the proper nation of Islam and he was the spokesman so naturally I met him in his capacity of spokesman and then I did an article or rather an interview and playboy with him directly at each time I got to know him a little better and then a publisher asked Malcolm if he would be willing to tell his life in book length detail. I finally agreed and then he Malcolm asked me if I would write the book. The late Alexander Palmer Haley noted author and journalist if you have a question or comment regarding this program write us remember views and opinions expressed on this program are not necessarily those of this station or the University of Texas at Austin until we have the opportunity again for in black America's technical producer Cliff Hargrove. I'm John L Hansen Jr. Please join us again next week.

Cassette copies of this program are available and may be purchased by writing in black America cassettes longhorn radio network communication building B UT Austin Austin Texas 78712 that's in black America cassettes longhorn radio network communication building B UT Austin Austin Texas 78712. From the center for telecommunication services the University of Texas at Austin this is the longhorn radio network. I'm John L Hansen Jr. Join me this week on in black America. I guess the principal thing that concerned me in black terms is just the advance of ourselves as a people and ways to bring that about and I'm not I don't have any magic buttons to push the same as you don't. A remembrance to the late Alexander Palmer Haley this week on in black America.