In Black America; Black In Boxing

music Black prize fighters have been active in America for well over two centuries. In fact, the first American heavyweight contender was a black, Tom Mullenow, of a junior slave. Jack Johnson won the heavyweight crown in 1908. By the 1930s, Henry Armstrong had become further weight, lightweight, and welterweight champion of the world, the first to hold three titles at once. Joe Lewis took the heavyweight crown in 1937, since then, for all but about five years, a black man has held the heavyweight championship of the world. This week, blacks in boxing in Black America.

From the Center for Telecommunication Services, the University of Texas at Austin, this is in Black America, discussions of the black experience in contemporary society. With this week's program, here's your producer and host, John Hansen. Sports is an area in which blacks' pre-eminence has already captured worldwide attention. Amateur and professional athletes have reached stardom in virtually all the major sports engaged in by Americans and in so doing that's captured a vast audience of dedicated fans both here and abroad. One sport in which blacks have dominated is boxing. The black prize fighter has been active in America for well over two centuries. In fact, the first American heavyweight contender was a black Tom Mullenow, of a junior slave. Mullenow lost only two championship fights, one in 1810

and the other in 1811, both to English title holder Tom Cripp. With the advent of the 20th century, the black boxer came to occupy a place of ever-growing importance in American ring annals, particularly after Jack Johnson, regarded by many as the greatest fighter of all time, who won the heavyweight championship of the world in 1908. By the 1930s, blacks were challenging white for supremacy and other divisions as well. Jack Armstrong had become featherweight, lightweight and well-to-weight champion of the world, the first fighter to hold three titles at once. Joe Lewis had already been World Heavyweight Champion for almost 10 years. Lewis took the heavyweight crown in 1937. At age 23, Joe became the youngest fighter in history to win the heavyweight crown when he knocked out James Braddock in the eighth round in Chicago. Joe Lewis reigned as heavyweight king until voluntary retiring March 1st, 1949. After holding the crown, no longer than any other

king in heavyweight history, nearly 12 years. Other black heavyweights that followed after Joe Lewis were, as of a child's 1949 through 1951, Jersey, Joe Walcox 1951 to 1952, Floyd Patterson 1956 through 59 and 60 through 62, Sonny Liston 1962 through 64, and Mohammed Ali. There's no doubt that Ali was one of the most popular heavyweight champions in history, a master of creating news both in and out of the ring. Ali probably won more pages of type than any other athlete in history. In February of 1964, Ali won the World Heavyweight Championship by KOing Sonny Liston. Nine successful title defenses followed before Ali's famous war with the army began. In 1967, Ali was stripped of his title and bandit from boxing in the United States.

It was not until 1970 that the US Supreme Court finally vindicated Ali from refusing to serve in the armed forces. After a three and a half year layoff, Ali worked his way up for another title shot. His biggest fights along the way were Superfights 1 and 2 against Joe Frazier, in which Ali suffered his first loss and then even the score. In October of 1974, few fans gave Ali a chance against champ George Foreman when they met in Zaire. A 4-to-1 underdog at ring time, Ali amazed the boxing world by using his brains and speed to exhaust and then KO his stronger and six year younger opponent. In February of 1978, Ali lost the heavyweight crown to Leon Spinks in the split decision in Las Vegas. That same year in September, he regained the crown over Spinks. In 1980, Ali tried a final comeback to regain the heavyweight championship title.

He had won an unprecedented three separate times over two decades. It was not to be. Defending champion Larry Holmes outpunched Ali for 10 long painful rounds. The fight was stopped in the eleventh round when Ali couldn't answer the bell. Larry Holmes ascended to the World Boxing Console title in 1978 by crushing Ken Norton. He had since defended his title 12 times and won eight by knockouts tied Joe Lewis's record. Larry has only been knocked down three times in his professional career. He is the young disputed heavyweight champion of the world. With the World Boxing Console crown and a victory over Mike Weaver, now the World Boxing Association champion, an undefeated record of 40 professional fights with 30 being by knockouts. Larry was born November 3rd, 1949. In 1956, Larry, along with his 11 brothers and sisters, moved to Eastern Pennsylvania for a better life. After discipline problems in school,

caused him to drop out in the seventh grade. Larry worked a string of odd jobs. He fathered two daughters before the age of 20, but continued boxing. Larry won the New Jersey AAU Championship and the Eastern Olympics title. Between 1970 and 1972, he fought 22 amateur fights, winning 19. His first professional fight was in March of 1973 against Rodel Dupri. For a few years, Larry also worked between fights as a truck driver. Holmes' rough and tumble background is probably one reason why he's good to his friends. Most of the people you see in Larry's corner at fight time have been with him for a long time. At the time of this production, Larry is preparing himself for a 13th title defense against Randy Texcock. My day starts off getting up in the morning, doing real work for the five miles. Right now we're doing three miles, we're cutting down last week of boxing, last week of training, and getting up in the morning, having some breakfast

after the run, and relaxation, and then coming in here at 3.30 and working out, four or five miles of boxing, and big bag and new speed bag, and maybe a little rope and a little loosen up afterwards. That's consistent on my day, and we do that for like eight weeks straight. I feel that on red on schedule. I feel that I box a lot. I train hard. My timing is coming. A few more things I have to do that I see. I got to push a little bit more on my punching, shorting them up a little bit more, but overall I think I'm coming pretty good as far as where I'm at today. The fight been a week away. I'm ready right on time. How does it feel being the halfway champion in the world? Well, it feels good. I enjoy being the halfway champion. Being the halfway champion I accomplished a lot. Again, a whole lot being the champion. I have no regrets. If I had to do it all over again, I think I would go through the same thing, but it's demanding. It takes a lot on

you from you and whatnot, but I guess this is the price you pay for. My family, my loved ones, my wife, my babies, and my friends being around me. That makes me the halfway champion, and being treated like I'm somebody. By them, that's a special goal to me. Boxing you can be a champion by knocking out people in the ring all day long, but you got to be more than that. You got to knock them out outside, too. And what I mean by that, you have to be able to deal with them and accept whatever they say to critics and whatever, and that's what being there with you. I enjoy being the champion and I like doing it. You think you gain a respect after you beat Coney? I think I always had to respect it. Just certain people like a hierarchical cell, but that out and put it in the people's mind. And much as people say they don't like hierarchical, so they listen to what they say. You don't get to respect your property, their homes, always get to respect. Anytime someone offered me a check for me and I was a two million hours, I feel that I'm getting to respect. It was some of the boxes you admired and coming along.

Well, you got to admire Joe Lewis. I had the opportunity to work with Joe Lewis back in the days in 1975 and 19, to 1970. Today he died. I had the chance of being with him. But I admire Joe Lewis. I admire Ali. I admire Ali for what he represented and what he done for boxing. And I think he was a great champion along with Joe Lewis. And these guys are my idols. And just like Jack Johnson, these guys are door open and like really amazing and Roger Marys and Gibson. Bob Gibson is the guy they opened doors for us. So you have to admire the people like that who came out of nowhere to help us achieve something in life and something in our history. I think everybody asked a lot of questions. I felt that I answered a lot. But the question that I asked myself inside, which I often wonder. But I praise God that I'm like I am because what motivates a fighter who wants to get in my position when he's a heavyweight champion

in the world, when he's a multi-millionaire, when he has everything that he wants. When he financially secure all the way around, what motivates me to continue to drive? And those are the questions that I ask myself. Those are the questions that I can't answer. But I have a great idea what the question might be. And the question is I've been blessed by God and I've seen so much happen in life, so much happen in boxing, so much happen in sport. And I don't want some of those things that happen to me. Larry, do you think boxing is all offense and no defense? Boxing is whatever you want it to be. It's all offense and his defense. All offense and fighter, you know, he's doing his job. And when he's defensive, he's blocking, he's being protected, just like football. It's like basketball. Boxing is no different from anything else. If they ban anything, unbiting anything or anything, sports that should ban football and hockey. Do you think it was difficult you coming behind Muhammad Ali as the heavyweight champion? A lot of people expect you to be a carbon copy of him. Yeah, a lot of people expect a lot of

things, but you know, that's the way the American people are. They expect miracles. Miracles, you can't, you know, it takes a long time. But we keep doing the impossible. The impossible is what Larry Holmes has done. He has untold sums of money in the bank, successful business ventures under the name of Larry Holmes Enterprise, which is headquartered in downtown Easton in a building which also houses the restaurant and round one, a popular disco and bar. There is also the Larry Holmes training center, and a total of 32 acres in Easton, and he has considerable investments in stocks and bonds. When Larry is not fighting, he's often joining his new home and family, which includes a new baby. He is also building a fast food restaurant in the neighborhood where he grew up and is naming it after his mother, who brought up her family of 11 children by herself after she was divorced from her husband. In recent weeks, a great deal of attention has been

focused on the boxing game since the death of Korean boxer Duku Kim, who suffered brain damage and a title fight with lightweight champion Ray Mancini. The big question being asked, are there enough safety precautions in boxing? Well, I think what happened to him was the act of God. I feel that there was a reason for that, and the time was chosen by God. That could happen to anybody. He didn't have to be fighting that day for that to happen. He could have been walking across the street, he could have been sleeping, and that would have had happened. But unfortunately, it happened on TV in front of me and to me and the people, and they feel that boxing is a dangerous sport. But they never say anything about ice hockey, sort of football players, or race cars, or whatever. But soon something happened in boxing, they want to take precautions against boxing. I think boxing should take that step towards themselves. I think boxing should take the only examination. Make sure they're physically fit and ready and prepared to go into a battle like he was going into. I think by him having not having the funds,

I think that probably hurt him from getting the proper examination. But I think it should be mandatory by the WBC or by the WBA that the fighters should be mandatory, that they should be examined 100 percent. But again, that's the way people are in sports, that's the way people are in life. They don't think about the problem until the problem occur. All I'm saying that they should take a little bit more provision and make sure that things like this don't happen out of the ordinary. And that's what I call out of the ordinary. One reason for Larry's success in the last two years have been trainer Eddie Futch. Eddie is a veteran of 50 years in the fight game. At age 71, he has watched Jack Johnson and sees a lot of Jack in Larry, the moves, the boxing skills, and the control he exerts over opponents. Such trainers as Futch, a brilliant teacher of boxing's fine points, are vanishing breed.

The veteran corner man taught fighters to protect themselves. But defense is a vanishing art, except in the case of such craftsmen as homes. Well, I've been the trainer for Larry now going on two years. I started with the Burby fight and I've been with him through the spinks, the snipes, the Kuni, and now coming up on Cobb. What kind of attitude did Larry have going into the Kuni fight? His attitude was a very good one. I mean, he had a highly competitive attitude going into the Kuni fight. He had been in training for six months with that fight due to the postponement. And my job was to kind of hold him down. Does Larry like to train? Larry likes to train. He likes to train. In fact, I had to try to curtail some of that energy during that six months period. It was a real job trying to hold him down so that he wouldn't

overwork and come up to the point too soon. Do you find Larry similar to other great fighters of the past? Yes, I do find him similar in many respects. The weight fighters are the ones who are dedicated. They're the ones who have self-motivation. No one has to tell them what they must do. They know what they must do and they're pretty dedicated at doing these things. And so I always found this to be the mark of the great fighter. And another thing too, I found to be well characteristic of the better fighters. When they turn themselves over to a trainer, they follow his program. I mean, they follow his program implicitly. Is that a problem where fighters think they should be the boss and once they become the boss things happen for the worst? Right. This I found to be a big problem in many cases.

Because a fighter can't be out there and involved in that hand-to-hand combat and know exactly what's going on. And somebody outside who has a chance to see the whole picture can tell him when he comes back to the corner what he's doing wrong, what the other fellow is doing wrong, which direction he should take his attack and how he should rearrange his defense and all these things. As he can't possibly in the heat of battle be able to diagnose all these problems. And so when the better fighters realize this and so they'll select somebody they believe in. And when they believe in you and turn themselves over to you, then it makes the work easy for both the fighter and the trainer. How does Larry handle pressure of being heavyweight champion of the world inside and outside the ring? Admably, I would say. He never forgets

from when he came. And his attitude is always gracious. And I mean, he's a natural. He doesn't pretend to be somebody that he isn't. And this is one of the things I can appreciate most about him. He has never gone to his head to the point where he feels that he's somebody exceptional. He's considered himself an ordinary man who was best with God given talent. And he has used that to the best. And he knows that he's lucky to have had that talent discovered and developed. Any prediction on the outcome of the fight? I feel that the fight will be hard one because of the styles. I saw a cop coming to the gym. When I was managing Joe Frazier,

Cobb walked into our gym in Philadelphia. And this was about the 76 I'd say, just about 1976 because I think it was after the Manila fight between Frazier and Ali. And I gave him the trainer he still has now, George Benton, who was my assistant at the time. And George was a great fighter himself in the very good trainer, which great fighters usually aren't. And he started to develop Cobb and Cobb came along quite well. I used to use him as a sparring partner for Dwayne Bobbick. And when he had been in the gym maybe six months, but he was still able to give Dwayne good work and Dwayne was boxing the top fighters at the time. And he boxed occasionally with Joe Frazier. And he had a good sound background boxing. And so I know that he's tough. It takes

a good shot. I mean, I've seen him hit by her in the shabers. I've seen him hit by Bernardo, Makarro, and Ken Norton and Fellows of that. And I've never seen him staggered. But against Larry, he's going to be in with a different kind of fight. It's going to be a good boxer who is a sharp puncher. Sometimes the sharp punches can hurt you a little more than the power punches can because you don't see that their punches coming. And this always is very disconcerting. When you get hit by the shot, they don't even see start. And so it'll be an interesting fight. It'll be a hard fight for a while. But I think that Larry's style, his quickness, his sharpness, his boxing ability, and his experience. And overall, knew how. Will be the deciding factors. But Cabo will be in that pitching. Who was some of the other fighters you've trained for? Well, I've trained

Bob Foster, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Dan Jordan, Bobby Shacon, Antonio Gomez, Alexis Aguayo, Hitchman Lewis. I always forget somebody in the process, up to the top of my head. And Mike Weaver. I used him as a sparring partner for Ken Norton. When I'll be in the advantage when Mike Weaver comes around with a title shot. Yeah, I worked with Mike and five fights just before he won the title. And so I've been around with a few of the better fighters. And I go back like 50 years in this games. And so a lot of the fighters that I could name, people wouldn't recognize the name Vinnie Haas. So I just, I always just named the ones in the last 20 years because a lot of people

will remember them. Those close to the man labeled the other champ, say he's quiet and carries a chip on his shoulder because he had to prove himself as a boxer. There were some who criticized Larry for accepting the terms of his fight against Jerry Coney. The challenger was asking for an equal share of the purse, $10 million each. Coney did get the biggest share of newspaper and television publicity before the fight was even signed. That fight had the needed plus for Larry Holmes. It's still this critics and many black fans who had looked upon him as only the top among a muddled bunch of heavyweights took another good look. They didn't want to see any white hope take away the title from a black champion. The Holmes Coney fight was in many ways a repeat of the famed Johnson Jeffery's title about of 1910. Johnson had won the title from Tommy Burns in a fight that had to be held in Australia. And white Americans immediately began a search for a white hope to take

it back. Boxing promoters and the press forced Jeffery's out of retirement to take the title back. Like the Holmes Coney fight, the Johnson Jeffery fight was held in a makeshift ring in LaVada and an overwhelming white hope crowd filled the temporary arena. Black spectators won a minority at both fights. And in 1910, the few blacks who showed up stayed on the fringes of the crowd. Even the outcome of the fight was similar. Johnson gave Jeffery's boxing lessons for 14 rounds and then knocked him out in the 15th. Holmes made it a little sooner, 12 rounds of teaching and a KO in the 13th. The Eastern assassin seemed to have made the transition from Shy Larry, who to a national celebrity and millionaire. As a boxer, he is just on the fringes of superstar. I've been speaking to trainer Eddie Futch and Larry Holmes, the unisputed heavyweight champion of the world. If you have a comment or a like to purchase a cassette copy of this program,

write us the address CS in Black America, Longhorn Radio Network, UT Austin, 78712. For in Black America's technical producer, Walter Morgan, I'm John Hanson. Join us next week. You've been listening to in Black America, discussions of the Black experience in contemporary society. In Black America is produced and distributed by the Center for Telecommunication Services at UT Austin, and does not necessarily reflect the views of this station or the University of Texas at Austin. This is the Longhorn Radio Network.