In Black America; Blacks in The Space Program

. We are going for main engine ignition, six. We have main engine ignition, three, two, one, and solid motor ignition and lift off, lift off of the first operational space shuttle mission with two satellites on board and the shuttle has cleared the tower. Many blacks are responding to the challenges of space exploration, the last frontier. Three years ago, a black Cuban had the honor of being the first black astronaut in space. On July 4, 1983, Lieutenant Colonel Guy S. Buford, Jr., is scheduled to be America's first

black shuttle astronaut as a science specialist aboard the space shuttle Challenger. This week, blacks in the space program in Black America. From the Center for Telecommunication Services, the University of Texas at Austin, this is in Black America, Discussions of the Black Experience and Contemporary Society. With this week's program, here's your producer and host, John Hanson. For the years, blacks have made outstanding contributions to the aerospace industry. The moon buggy, used by the Apollo astronauts, was designed by a black physicist, and blacks have been pioneers in new fields of aerospace technology. For example, Patricia S. Cowan, is head of a 12-member staff of researchers, developing techniques to counter gravity sickness syndrome, which she describes as NASA's number one biomedical problem.

blacks are continuing to respond to the unlimited opportunities provided by the space program and through the challenge of the last frontier. I spoke with Joe Ackinson, your co-operative officer, with the Johnson Space Center in Houston. We have two groups of blacks who are employed here, the professional and non-professional categories. The professional category constitutes the largest number, and presently they are approximately 120 blacks on board in the professional category. These blacks spread across the board, as far as in engineering and in administration of the space center. Yes, they are, as a matter of fact, I can break it into broadly two categories, and that would be the administrative category and also the scientific and engineering category. The largest number are employed on the scientific and engineering side of the house. Since being here, since 1964, have blacks become involved in the space program here in America?

In my opinion, I would say that blacks have become an integral part of the space program. I'm proud to say that blacks can be found not only here at Johnson Space Center, but throughout the entire agency of NASA in just about every category of endeavor involved in space. We find them pretty well distributed throughout the scientific and engineering side. This includes computer hardware and software. It includes operating the controls, admission control during the flights, and certainly design engineering and other scientific endeavors. Are there any special qualifications one must have to become a member of the space team? Yes, there are some special qualifications, but not insurmountable qualifications.

Let me give you an example. In as much as between 60 and 70 percent of the employees here are, scientifically, are engineering oriented. Obviously, a person should have a third grounding, either an engineering degree or a degree in size of some sort. This can be a mathematician or it can be a chemist or persons in the more or less what I would call the hard sciences. When a person comes on board, regardless of whether the orientation is engineering or science in general, there is some special training that takes place after they get here. And as much as we are more or less in the space oriented business, obviously, there is a requirement to develop what we call the aerospace technologies, the aerospace engineer.

And to reduce that to its simplest terms, it's more or less taking the general engineer and orienting that person toward these space operations. Do you find it difficult to find qualified blacks and other minorities to fill the positions that are vacant when they are vacant here at NASA? There is not any real difficulty in finding qualified blacks. I think our problem, if I can address it as such, has been not difficulty in locating them, but as we might know, the demand for blacks has been so high throughout all of industry that we are spreading them rather thin. What we try to do is work both ends of this spectrum. Engage number one in very heavy recruitment to select those persons who are interested

in coming on board with us, and obviously who are qualified, as well as work within the community at the high school, middle school, and elementary school level to encourage students at a very young age to give consideration to the exploring of scientific and science and engineering as a career. Once we get them started at that age, then hopefully it will lead to building that resource pool from which we can recruit. If I'm sitting at home listening to this program and decide that, yeah, I want to go to work for NASA, how do I go about obtaining a position where I come out and just fill out an application? You come out and just fill out an application, but in addition to that, there are other things that you might do. Certainly you would come with the basic qualifications, some of which I have mentioned.

The other thing is to come directly to our personal office, which is very receptive in so far as giving full consideration to all applicants, or you might come directly to my office, the equal opportunity programs office, or you might just contact another employee. As a matter of fact, I would be a little reluctant to say there is only one way to get it, and I would certainly suggest that those who are interested to attempt to get full consideration of the applications by a number of avenues. Since being here at NASA since 64, what are some of the involvements that blacks and other minorities have made for the betterment of the space program here? The involvement of blacks in the space program here at NASA goes back to the inception of

the program in the early 1960s. There were blacks involved on the engineering and scientific side of the house, as well as on the administrative side. I came to NASA in 64. I'm on the administrative side, and there were a number of others who joined the organization at that time. In summary, I would say that there is reasonable representation of blacks in most of the operations here at the center, and most assuredly, those of significance and importance. One final question. Do you all go out to the historically black colleges and talk to the students and to make them aware of the opportunities that are available here at the space center and in the aerospace

industry? We are very actively engaged in establishing ongoing relationships with all of the historically black colleges. It is not a one-time, one-shot kind of recruitment effort where we show up on the campus once a year and attempt recruitment. The kind of thing that we do is establish an ongoing relationship on a day-to-day basis, week-to-week and month-to-month basis, where we are in direct relationship in contact with not only the students, but also the faculty and making ourselves available to help them in any way we can to develop those students and put them out into the workforce. I would think that the rest of industry is equally as involved in this kind of thing. The one universal effort along these lines is known as the cluster program in which both

government and industry is involved in assisting the predominantly black universities to do those things which would meet the needs of the students to produce more of those in science and engineering. Many blacks are responding to the challenges of the space program, such as Dr. Ronald E. McNair, a specialist in laser technology. He is the only black civilian who has qualified as an astronaut. He will be aboard the STS-11 mission and Lieutenant Colonel Frederick D. Gregory, a graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy and former test pilot for both the Air Force and NASA will be aboard the STS-18 mission and Lieutenant Colonel Guy S. Buford, Jr. Lieutenant Colonel Buford is scheduled to be America's first black astronaut to shuttle into space on July 4 of 1983.

Dr. Buford will be aboard the challenger as a space specialist. Dr. Buford was chosen by NASA as an astronaut candidate in 1978. He is a graduate of Pennsylvania State University where he earned a BS degree in aerospace engineering in 1964. In 1971, he earned his doctorate from the Air Force Institute of Technology. I was born and thought of it and was really raised and thought of it and getting into the astronaut program has been something that has been an evolutionary process for me because I've always been interested in airplanes and spacecraft ever since I was a kid. So it's been a dream for an awful long time to get this far and for me it's a dream from true. What courses you took in high school prepared you for this particular profession? Well I did a lot of, I knew in high school that I wanted to go into the aerospace business and I wanted to be an aerospace engineer.

So in high school I took math and science courses as many math and science courses as that I could to prepare me to handle the college work that I was going to get later on. That was pretty unique. Back in the 60s you knew you wanted to go into aerospace. What did you pierce? Think about you becoming an aerospace engineer. But surprising enough my peers didn't know what aerospace engineering was. At that time was called aeronautical engineering and so I mean they didn't know what it was and so they really didn't kid me at all about it or anything but they just didn't know what that was. What influence did your parents have on you growing up and becoming a scientist? I think the greatest influence was my father. My father was a mechanical engineer and the thing that I remember most about him and growing up was the fact that he enjoyed really enjoyed being a mechanical engineer and my thinking was gee if that career is such a great thing maybe I should get into engineering myself and that was one of the reasons why I got into engineering.

What type of environment did you grow up in Philadelphia? Well I grew up in a middle class neighborhood in Philadelphia where there were good schools. I had strong strict parents so to speak. I was very fortunate in growing up because it was very easy for me to get jobs as a kid and I spent a lot of time doing our jobs in the neighborhood earning money here earning money there and that helped me out tremendously because it provided me money to put into a hobby that I had as a kid and that was building my little airplanes and that was the thing that got me in the aerospace engineering. But I think my childhood was a normal inner city childhood. It's a good education out of the public schools and thought off and I was very fortunate to have good parents. Were there any other blacks majoring in aerospace engineering when you were going to Penn State? No, there were none when I was there even through the four years that I was there.

I was back at Penn State not too long ago and I saw that there were a fair number of blacks in aerospace engineering so I was very pleased with that. Did you get a good background in math and science in the inner city a lot of people talking about wearing inner city schools or not teaching our black youngsters the basics? I thought I did. I went to a strong high school and that helped me out tremendously and the high school was the training that I got in my high school was the thing that prepared me for college and I thought they did an excellent job at doing that. How did you arrive here at NASA? Well I came to NASA through the Air Force, I'm still Air Force and in 1977 NASA went out for a call for astronauts and I was in the process of coming up for reassignment in the Air Force and that was something that I was very interested in doing so I applied for the astronaut program through the Air Force and then eventually got selected so that's

how I got here. How many different type of airplanes have you flown? I've flown about four or five, F4s in Vietnam, fighter airplanes in Vietnam, I've flown a couple of trainer airplanes both as a student and as an instructor and then just some odd airplanes. T37, T38, F4, F5, A, F5B and a little time in the KC-135. Does it take a lot of training to become a pilot? Well my flying training came through the Air Force and when you go through the Air Force they give you about 12-12 and a half months of pilot training in order to qualify you to fly fighters, that's what they still do so that's how I got my flying training. What does it mean to you being the first black American in space? Well I think it's significant from a historical point of view, I think that I am opening up doors for other blacks who will be flying in space after me and I'm also demonstrating

that we can work in flying space as well as do a lot of other technological jobs. So I think it's significant from a historical point of view, but I'm also looking forward to it just for the thrill of flying in space, I mean this is something that I've been working at for the last four or five years so I'm really looking forward to actually having that experience. You're going to be the science specialist on the Challenger, July 4th, hopefully, when it takes off. What were your duties in tail? Well I'll be working with another mission specialist and both of us will be deploying two satellites and we'll be doing some electrophoresis experiments on orbit, explain it. Okay, we have a piece of equipment which is going to do a separation of chemical elements in space and it's the separation of chemical elements using electromagnetic field and that's electrophoresis and that's very much more efficient in space than it is on earth

and we're going to actually do some separation of products in space to demonstrate that capability. What type of training have you been going through to prepare yourself for the shuttle flight? I've been doing quite a bit of training. The last year I've spent most of my time in shuttle simulators which are mock cockpits learning how the switches work and how the vehicle flies and how to live in the shuttle. But prior to that I've been working various projects on the center to just become basically familiar with the vehicle and how it flies, engineering projects as well as flying projects. How did you feel when you accepted by NASA to come into the program? I was really pretty thrilled. I recognized there was quite a bit of competition when I applied for the program and I wasn't sure that I would be accepted but I was very pleased to be accepted by NASA and has been a very good experience since I've been here.

Are there any other blacks involved here in Houston in the space program at NASA? Right now we have four blacks in the space program. Three of us came in in 1978 and one came in in 1980 and so we have two mission specialists types like myself and then two test pilots who are in the program. What are your particular opinions about the America space program? I'm really very enthusiastic about the NASA space program. I've always been very interested in aerospace and I think NASA is going in the right direction with the shuttle. We'll be doing quite a bit of work with the shuttle just in making new products in space and doing things in space a lot cheaper with the shuttle than we've done in the past. I think we're going in the right direction and as I said I'm very enthusiastic about what we're doing. When you're not preparing for the shuttle or doing your scientific work here at NASA, what does guy do in his spare time?

I don't have very much spare time. But what I like to do is I'm a jogger and a runner so I like to jog and run. I also do a lot of reading on the outside and I spend a fair amount of time with my sons. How important is it for blacks and other minorities to become interested in the aerospace industry? I think it's pretty important. One of the things that has surprised me about being in the field is that there are just very few blacks in the field and that has been a real disappointment to me to see that I have always been the only or the very few and I think that we really need to have more participation by blacks in the field and I think that blacks can make a meaningful contribution in the field. So I think it's important that we get in the field not for any other reason just to demonstrate that yes we can do as good a job as anybody else in the aerospace field. Did you ever want to do anything else? No not really. Surprisingly enough when I was a kid I developed a strong interest in airplanes and I said to

myself hey why not make that a career and so I have really pursued my interest in aerospace and I really had no strong interest in doing anything else. Being the first black to go up in space do you consider yourself a super black? No not really. I recognize that there's a very highly qualified other blacks out there who will be doing the same thing that I'm doing and as I said I think that I just serve as a forerunner to others who come behind me who will also do as well. Are you encouraging blacks to become interested in math and science as the way of the future? I like to do that. I like to get out and when I'm on a speaking tour and encourage blacks to get into science and engineering. I think that's the way to go. Our society is very technologically oriented and I think that's the careers of the future I think will be in that area. I think most of the science fields, geology, chemistry, physics I think those fields have a lot to offer.

The medical field has a lot to offer too so I think any of the science fields for engineering fields really have a lot to offer for blacks as careers and career opportunities. Have you had any problems doing with weightlessness? Well I really haven't dealt with it for any length of time. We have some simulators here at the Johnson Space Center to simulate weightlessness and they simulated only for a short period of time and I haven't had any problems with it and to me it's a lot of fun. My prolonged experience with weightlessness will come when I fly so I'm looking forward to that. Do you plan on writing a book about your experiences? I really haven't decided on that. I'll have to wait till it's all over before I make a decision on that. Are you treated as an equal, an equal astronaut, not just a black astronaut but your suggestions to projects and experiments or justes thought worthy as the other white astronauts? Yeah.

I am equally treated on the center and that's something that I greatly appreciate it. We have 78 astronauts in the office and all of us are very equal and so we are all respected by each other and all our comments are respected by each other and each of us has an equal amount of influence on what goes on so I haven't been treated any differently than that and I really appreciate that. How long do you anticipate in staying with the program? I really don't know. My plans after I fly are really very indefinite right now and a lot will depend on what occurs to me within the next year, year and a half while I'm here at NASA. Being the first black do you foresee yourself having added pressures put upon you at the present time? Yes and I think the added pressure is the added tension that I get but I try not to let that pressure or tension bother me. I recognize that there will be other blacks that will be flying behind me and I'm just the first black that's going to be in the program and that we will all make meaningful contributions

to the program as we get an opportunity to fly. Lieutenant Colonel Guy S. Buford Jr. and Joe Ackerson of the Johnson Space Center in Houston. If you have a comment or would like to purchase a cassette copy of this program, write us. The address is in black America, Longhorn Radio Network, UT Austin, 78712. For in black America's technical producer Walter Morgan, I'm John Hanson, Jonas next week. You've been listening to in black America, discussions of the black experience in contemporary society. In black America is produced and distributed by the Center for Telecommunication Services at UT Austin and does not necessarily reflect the views of this station or the University of Texas at Austin. This is the Longhorn Radio Network.