Conversations on Public Relations, Philip Leslie, Part 3 of 4

it's putting the emphasis on almost the wrong end of a job that what you're talking about racial conversations on public relations picture from riverside radio and then the third of four conversations on public relations with philip leslie president of the village leslie company an editor the public relations and going into effect on this series mr leslie and his guests discuss the school's than the problems facing the public relations industry mr lesage yes on this third programme are real and simon associate professor of populations at utica college at syracuse university and eugene miller vice president of fairfield mcgraw hill incorporated but the other foot is a question of public relations than public interest on the subject of the scope of importance we have heard a day out we might have to start with some definition of what we mean by the public interest professor simon yes i would feel is a very difficult term to identify its intrigue a lot of public relations people because we we take it so much for

granted that we are representing the clients in the public interest and intrigue john hill somewhat some years ago when he wrote his book as second book he had interviewed fifty leaders in industry government labor and he asked the narrow definition of of the public interest and a half of them said that they exist no precise definition of the term the majority of them will try to define the term cited the public and dresses plainly the greatest good for the greatest number of the very lowest generalization of course but i think it's one way we can approach this and suddenly there they made one exception to this one qualification said the greatest good for the greatest number of the essential qualification is that the interests of the monarchy must be protected so i think we might start out by saying the public interest as that which that has the greatest good for the greatest number of people provided the interests of the monopoly are protected

ah do you view the us right along with it except i think it's remarkably hard to define because unless you're constantly doing a survey so most of the election nature i don't know how you find out where the greatest numbers in favor of that and of course who was the greatest god is controversial and it's interesting of course and public relations for example if one were doing something up publicizing the effort say of the fidel castro government at one time in history of this would seem like doing a work that would be that for the greatest good for the greatest number of people in united states because our government was sympathetic or six months later doing the same job perhaps maybe you want to integrate is good but it's very hard to tell well i want to say that we might look at this all the negative definition in a free society where we want everyone to have as much freedom to be an individual to express

himself to create to contribute to the growth of our society it's possible shouldn't we say that the public interest is really anything that doesn't interfere with the rights and the privileges of other people unfairly if you take the positive approach and say it's the greatest good for the greatest number of this implies you don't do anything unless it makes a direct contribution to this majority and protects the monarchy but there are many things that must be done and should be done rather not be encouraged that in the fact you don't know for a long time whether they will make a direct contribution but they should be permitted if they don't take an unfair advantage of the freedom given to the detriment of some segment of the population but you well i would agree with you on the most honestly when i still i would agree with mr miller i think one of the problems is is there is no tangible way of measuring this what happens to be the public interest as general term were talking about

what bothers me is that two people can be taking an opposite point of view one issue both believing there acting in the public interest may well let's look at an example right to work laws where where in the public relations business and might very well be possible effect of probably is the actuality that at this very moment there is some public relations counsel counseling unions on how they should proceed to abrogate and have right to work was taken off a box and at the same time there's probably another public relations counsel counseling and history and on how to secure more right to work laws both believing very firmly in the online that they're acting in the public in journalism that's really the essence of democracy and free speech the right to get a hearing and to have a position on any spectrum any aspect of the spectrum of opinion and so forth so long as you don't take an unfair advantage or

mislead and distort the circumstances you're you're referencing the opposition on both sides of the right to work laws and it's one of thousands of examples where they're legitimate public relations activities going on to get a hearing in the form of public opinion for various viewpoints it's when one or the other distorts manipulates so warren's media people are legislators or things of that sort that we really get over into this area of what it is contrary to the public interest and i think this probably is the is the starting point of what is and what isn't contrary to the public interest in public relations were certainly agree that they're using a misrepresentation and false techniques and lies and so forth for any cause no matter how good it might be is not in the public interest and go along with the opening and i think it's hard to judge and it's hard to

ascertain i certainly think an advocate of the right to work laws fairly speak his peace and i thought of his way to find out all the arguments against his position he was taking his case without distortion normally would there is a distortion of course and stating your case when you're prejudice in favor of it because you're not gonna put in all the the other side and maybe nice in this world of people would present both the pros and cons of people have an interest in things i think you're talking really about distortion in a very out specific way which they propagandize true lies or are other runs a simple leaving out from oregon we come down the only things that a very specific way people outside view especially either it use public relations of war uneasy about the so called cover up activities a public

relations for instance that the things that make the newspapers or the to get around when you have an isolated case such as insider stock transactions price fixing as it's widely called a question of the company running a competitor has seven low price and deciding to match that price and whether or not this is a price fixing and the public interest particularly the accusation of hiding facts accidents for instance in them are trying to make it difficult for the press to find out what happened philip before we get into each one of these any one of them i'd like to express a point about about public relations in general in terms of these types of activities it i think between nineteen ninety five percent of the work of admissions people below really are in the non controversial areas where the normal ordinary things it's the five or ten percent that seems to hit

people between the eyes and another thing is i think many people blame public relations as such for fully activities of the organizations they represent and now my feeling is it any good public relations man who was with a saw is a person who will sarah's too a quaint and guiding council his management by martin ike i'm in a college university of government what have you to acquaint guide them on matters which deal with the public and to try to adjust activities which are baffling contrary to the public interest now as the moment was talking about some of these activities such as the announcements and what have you and i think it's the job of the public relations man banal distinctly what can and what can be done in terms of for example the securities and exchange commission are a definite rules intriguingly enough the the sec rules are probably

the only rules that prevent say to a company or an organization and you must who with us in the sometimes of information that you actually must do it in other words if you have been those you have to give it out if you don't give it out in time you are acting contrary to the disclosure rules and i'm a public relations man was it was worth his salt would be one knows these regulations family and would guide is his firm and in handling in many situations and many companies public relations man has not given this sir this job and they're still be another race in many companies he's looked upon not as a public place in them but as someone who gets out information to the press and he's probably the last one the world to be pretty the policies and activities to which you should be privy to know that what these things cause and effect is and some of the more regard for the lack of regard with which covered relations people are held even by their own employer's on and crimes

do to be isolated but very dramatic publicity given to the ethical questions of the contrary to public interest questions about certain cover price and practices i'm sure that our journal survey like this has never been made but i'm sure that the survey were made of intelligent people generally when i'm in public relations asking them what they know about a workable relations between particularly what they might be concerned about that so are certain things or be mentioned that they i've seen or heard a lot about an isolated cases and therefore have been suspicion or least concerned about whatever price of people blue and whether they should be taken in the respect and confidence in judgment we have an occasion or caseworkers a lot of publicity about supporting a government official for instance be a senator dodd cases had a tremendous amount

of publicity this is one case which at this point has not been determined but moore public relations counsel <unk> council is thrown around in the question of what the role of the garage and man is is given publicity where the sound ninety five percent think you're talking about are invisible the feeling that the operations manager job is to use and make use of the media people in a derogatory sense rather than to serve the media people a year on both sides of the fence on this chain of mcgraw hill being both at and a major publishing organization and you being a corporate executive minister am sure you have thoughts in this particular well i think you're right in the fact that at their lot of people people as well educated good job to think poorly of public relations man america they've mainly from is special examples i get the press but i think public relations people would do themselves a

tremendous disservice aside from that and talk about the man who is eighty five or ninety percent of the things at that dunkin in any kind of headlines because he does a moralist general routine job he doesn't involve himself often i'm a corporate activity doesn't intrude upon and now the state has praised determination by agreements with something that that's the us discuss the company's do or insider stock transit transaction if a public relations director has a suspicion that there's something going on in the company that if the public were nobody would put the public and this favor how actively does he go to his men <unk> doing something we get in a serious trouble much more pro you ever dream of if this continues it wasn't asked for his opinion and he wasn't given the information we found out because he's good reporting sort of how many public

relations directors will call an intruder upon the situation take the bull by the horns and volunteer this kind of information really isn't wanted in and requested weber if you know yet this is exactly what the companies need they need somebody there was a lock i can't tell you why or why you should not do it for a business resume but i can tell you that this is the kind of thing that if if it became public with any other groups were interested would be disastrous to this company or create tremendous bill will now from a public relations director speak out on pricing policies and packaging policies and a whole raft of other policies in open un asked and they don't make it their business the volunteer i think this is the thing that's a nod to their interest are we saying that probably there are many more areas are earning many more instances when the public relations man hurts

by not pursuing the public interest of his client them by manipulating the public interest or to starting at by the things he does do is notice what you're saying that the us in the embassy or we've got to recognize were dealing with a relatively noone profession intensive mark and professions unpack what we argue with whether this a profession ii so it's only since the war really that the public relations field has come into its own and we're what toll i'll probably says people now have a national organization of a creation society of america unknown to many people's organizations growing actively and it's taking a very active interest and concern with matt ethical man is a moral man is i think there will be another generation of job before public relations people are accepted subway on the terms of testimony hope so would viv they should be accepted now an otherwise it will be it will take time

for them to be accepted let's say as a legal counsel is accepted i don't disagree with you i agree with you that that it is the public relations man duty to point out or where the public interest says and paint it and to do something about it but whether he has consulted at the moment depends entirely on on his stature within the organization is working like i guess what i'm saying is it's true he does not have the same kind of credentials as a lawyer unique insight legal evidence they might never be able to do that it can't threaten them with the fact that they can go to jail exciting if they don't fight it but i think it's his role whether he's asked to do this or not to continue to bring up the sensitive areas to the company's attention on that saying that the company was a lawyer a public relations man oh you said is greatly would take you where they probably walk but he is thrown in the hopper it is now before the table or the top management of the board of directors and they can ignore it might choose to

override his opinion which they can do it any time but often one to present an intimate good manner it with as much evidence as possible a lot of management's once they're faced up with the problems not hiding will come to a very good decision and i and i guess i said as it's a public relations man function in it and a corporation they disrupt all these nasty questions whether they take his advice or not but just that poem on the table and either as a question what does the i'm rejoicing as amanda was going with the firm would say ten years or even such insiders a counselor and onto a major issues he's canceling them to do one thing the way and they decide they'd much rather do be on his acuteness of genome in a service prodding without losing his job would say well you're right there's a practical matter if his opinions are continually turned down an analyst

will be a parting lights but it would seem to me that this would happen and that it means that he is not end tomorrow with the management the management is not in tune with him and there's a lot of that and he would never be very effective in this is a very clear realization for one reason other or another he's either giving him advice it they don't wanna fall i know it might be that he is site that these men and women and he's completely wrong he might be in there i would i mean if this were true in the marketing department raising out his hair was somebody is wrong in the tennessee would be that the public relations man if he continually does it's over apparent time it is out of phase with his management and as a not a cell or even commits a lower longer term they should change their ways and i'll probably will be a parting of ways if they'll fire until probably quit anyway i think that they have no problem is as much management says it has public relations people i think it's a problem of trying to get the management to be like almost sophisticated about this

aspect of bringing about good will and understanding for example close some years ago pearl know some were suggested to the standard oil company that they may have a copy of then in terms of a series that was going off the air it was called play of the week where they stepped in at just that moment and picked it up and what did they get out of that about all i got out of it was good will and understanding on the part of regime very small segment of the population a very influential analysis is one of the beer companies you're a new yorker whose name i will mention to fare very giving of free publicity at have pick up the tab on on sponsoring these free concerts in central park ridge or seventy five thousand people now i don't think there's going to be a direct connection between those people going to a concert and drinking more beer of a company at this particular moment but sadly that they're bringing about a tremendous amount of goodwill an understanding that will pay off in the years to come i you can measure this and you need a management or

sophisticated enough to see that this first step is definitely in the public interest and that they will bring about good will and understanding that will bring about more sales of beer let's go one step further ar i believe strongly that these things or in the public interest for a company's business in general but i also will leave others it's too simple sometimes to say a few very important people will think what you to do this let's do it because i think they're in almost all cases you can also perform something that is a direct benefit to the company lawyer going after forget my using the example i'm a tech company which was a quiet hours for several years maytag has been doing a and ecologist jeff of educating the women of america and all they need to know about clothes and textiles and washing them and so forth are there this is a public

service various very much of what they do either doesn't mention a tear or does it most incidentally but the point is that here is a company that is the only independent an industry made up of giants and it's nice because of the way it exists as to produce a top quality product for very discriminating for people who know the difference and are discriminating to have a discriminating audience that all women think it does make a difference how you wash your clothes or what machine you put them into the apple have any competitive advantage but if it were of america do know and are discriminating there that in a position to know more about how to do it and what the differences are in the techniques and equipment they can use and this van will lead to a benefit from a cave now they're the pub and the company benefit and i'm willing to say every one was willing to pick up the tab for concerts in the park or for an expensive

television series which him to a person that they said to get their commercials on the air you'll find twenty who will recognize the value of something that serves the public interest answers the company too often confined behind a hundred us is where the difference comes in in many cases between the simple capable job and the really imaginative really constructed and that by having these hundred and twenty do things that are in the public interest and not the company we'd make more and more progress toward the point where management understand the public relations can accomplish things for them for business in general for america for consumers and whatever other puppets they made it in the eyes of the general public i have a feeling that most people looked on public relations people as not pursuing the public interest so much as private interests which may have a connection with the public interest and this is one of the reasons it i say that the more companies that do as the beer company did you have the more likely people will begin to

lose this suspicion of the mouths of public relations people when they see that a company does something simple because it is a darn good thing to deal and it's the right thing to do them on kind people will be to view public relations with less suspicion than they do right now the fact that more and more as we get eight multidimensional society where government and industry and nonprofit organizations and so on are all andrew reacting with each other and the pressures and the countervailing powers and so forth are our polling toward each other and away from each other and keeping any of them from getting a strong ally and so far been a mate almost everything that not only very conspicuous to read many other people but it's going to put a premium on the ability to justify the existence of what the organization this episode up to do it used to be a top manager

of a business would say we're in business to make a profit york asian later a man say that period that is only the only purpose more and more the management people i think are recognizing the fact that they're in business to make a profit by performing a service or providing a product or whatever other purpose they have that some data the public needs or wants an insane that they're saying the public interest is really determining but what we do know the short sightedness comes in when they try to make their big profit the sheer in the process and one to keep those extra few cents a share rather than do some of the things that a major corporate citizen the company needs to do to have a better society don't know that i think organizations on it just like all people and get enough for what they really are and if you really are sound progressive organization that demonstrates

positively that you do things in the public interest people will begin to sense this after a while and in the only a nature of the american society without fast communication and so on the shoddy is turned up pretty quickly and which buttons like learning how to dance and management doesn't start off no no no do them are aimed at yesterday's cylinders or leave them alone and cultivates these interest and lets him express these ideas has be both the climate has to be so we provide a little later should mention you've also got the bootstrap theory a public relations obama called that they're good many organizations that have set out to create an immigration court and it ended up becoming a kind of a company that that image was because if you have enough said within the company and about the company and if you attract people who want to work for that company pretty so most people are going to live that way and nirvana operate that way and that i'm not being a pollyanna about this believe me a couple hundred percent a factor

but there are many organizations have said that we want people will think that where this kind of an organization that would set down our guy our goals and this is now our creed or credo as they call it may frame it and put on the wall and strangely enough the the decision to come up or filtered through the question well this is consistent with what we've set our creators and they go on and the college campuses to recruit young men they say this is what this company stands for and the young men one a worker that can accompany common among the ones who don't don't and gradually they by their bootstraps i change the nature of themselves are not advocating the image creation ray believing but these things are not as isolated as all that and it is a gradual lifting says it's an evolutionary process and many of the company sort of a highly respected for the outstanding public service of their public relations activity started out in many cases by picking a project or deciding to a given thing because that would make them

not favorably by a given group or something about so widely can sum up by saying that they're wily all recognize or continue to be occasional instances nobody knows what percentage of cases where all the croatians attempts to do things that are not in the public interest as we define that more and more the trend is toward a generation of things a stimulation and the recommendation of things to our clients that are consciously in the public interest for mutual benefit ipo you're listening to the third in a series of conversations on public relations with the bustling the president of the classic company and editor the public relations and joining mr leslie where raymond simon is associate professor of public relations at utica college of syracuse university and eugene miller vice presidential

public affair <unk> next week new jersey gasoline milton fehrman vice president of the mortgage company and howard ericson is editor of the quarterly review of public relations and a public relations counsel conversations on public relations is produced by matthew b the failed and water shepherding for wypr the non commercial fm station of the riverside church in new york city or any common way this is the national educational radio network