Gateway to Ideas; 1; The American Genius For Self-Examination

(blank) (pause) Gateway To Ideas Gateway To Ideas. A new series of conversations in which ideas are discussed in relation to reading. Today's program "The American Genius" for self examination is moderated by Ralph Backlund managing editor of Horizon Magazine. [Host]: For this discussion of the american genuis are self examination we have as our guest Russell

Lines. The managing editor of Harper's magazine. Who himself has examined the American scene of several books. One of them is well known as the "Taste Makers" another is A Surfeit of Honey. And our other guest is Alan Price Jones. Who was formally editor the London Times literary supplement. But has been in United States since 1960. And also had a chance to examine American society. Came here with a grant from the Ford Foundation. As at present the book critique of New York Herald Tribune. Now I think I'll start by making 2 observations. Ah, they're not my own observations as a matter of fact. Constance Rourke and her book of American Humor, which was published some years ago, says the no one can imagine the significant English called The Englishman. But what Harry James wrote The America. The very title of that book seem to fulfillment. And none of us thought an awkward first place. Seems perfectly natural. The other thing is when Eric Larrabee 4 years ago, published a book in this country call The Self Conscious Society. It was published the next year in several other countries and Italy the title

translated as America Judges Itself. And the French title (french indistinct) Uneasy And Lucid American. Now, both of those tiles are perfectly adequate titles for Mr. Larrabee book. But was clear at least in the latin countries no one had any idea of self consciousness. I mean that idea couldn't be gotten across. Uh, does that make a self conscious as a purely american trait? Mr. Lines since you've examined it yourself. [guest]: I don't think by any means self- consciousness is a peculiar American trait. I think that examination American society has become a major literary industry in this country. Uh, obviously because Americans like read about themselves. They like to find out what other people think they. Partly I think because they use this as a guide to acting the way they think is acceptable. Mr. Price Jones said before we, we went on the air that then he thought the idea of Americans think conformists

was, was, uh a rather nonsensical one. And I think it is in a way. On the other hand I do think that, uh, the air the American does like to know how he stands relations to others and his society. And this is one of the reasons why we read some many and write so many books of this sort. And why we can be said to be self conscious. [host]: Well, doesn't the frenchman or the englishman. What about it Mr. Price Jones? [guest]: I would think (indistinct) Americans want to be loved more than some other people's. The French for example didn't give a damn whether they're love or hated. They just go on being themselves. [host]: And what about the English? [guest]: And the English I would think from the same self conscienceness as if you want anything, if anything even more so than Americans (indistinct) wouldn't you think that it comes from the fact that so much of the world speaks the same language speaks english. But there are a lot of huge differences differences between Australia, New Zealand, United States great britain and so forth and the people in his guns are banned and that self conscious but also crucially others think that's one thing that is different since the campus that i am french were the terms of their environment is more lifting is a good thing

oh the christmas all think though that that the british were really self conscious at least an acute on the americans and the canadians the oscars in relation to the british maro was a little bit afraid that they are behaving the way they ought to what you're saying about allies of a political news site i do yes possibly it also goes to a long history of big on how we ought to behave and by the british sailors about that august began a chorus so it began at city recently began in ninety one when the great stream of innovation and countless chemical we're went through as much of the country's economy who wrote a book about it whoa whoa whoa that's no one's across the domestic matters the americans came out all but one oh it was she was him and twenty eight of the nineteen twenty eight came about thirty one analyst s and during the course of your muscles are to be her unflattering and i we were at them ali roughly furious and border but while the media is not millions of course we weren't means that that was one of the great bestsellers the europeans have tripled here and in

england because dylan quote of all time she's gone i was assured of a religious minority that you get a great volume of literature of examination of americans american character i would sing mostly written by foreigners before the turn of the century with it right bills before and i think was the beginning i think it was partly because the british living in great britain the customers think of themselves up to have eighteen and also analyze the senate all the bridges speaking english speaking world and the vice president that are serviced and the rails a bit and they build a weapon a weapon that the wealth of english speakers on the climate and they were times of color people into lying to face the same as it was last available about fifty years still lives and the australians using those meetings and rails but one of the things about about services drops in your nose kept america mostly blue who were here in the early part of the city with a working on us as a society which was a society based on a comic egalitarianism which they found very odd

indeed <unk> made it quite clear she that we just give up all this nonsense about equality would be really rather nice people uncomfortable as a liberal and then we didn't have you revue was a middle class kind of morality and good manners but we were done more of it as a young social political experiment by these people ivan is going concern we were very young and the nation but don't you think they also serve me ms martin oh one and was distraught and the conflict was also has a different auction of english culture that reasonable second society which we really aren't any more didn't williamson sure we were not mean some of the parent looking at a child if they have logos of course has built up buildings in the front if they look at us as something totally new world people hadn't had the big waves of immigration and you know i was so nice and so you have states in those days on the job and it was this like henrietta

lewis of writing about us there's evil in the aging six isn't as they were thinking when they have that the americans were thought to respectful towards england and they complain too much about the fact that i was going to kind of words is balanced budget it was a balanced and i think a little bit of a shot against visits today and link the african americans with as they thought being too friendly to you will dismiss was one of the things that happened was when an amber and what has been called for the common man andrew jackson era when we had this great wave of the authors' names a company to such things oh like really loose mob of them and one term for taste and ideas to europe as as the sheikh thing to do and you became a self conscious of ways that they look to for their for their ideas and man is an arts when i asked them the generation before them and have no need for the four legged set on it was a contrast crowd excited which disappeared and a new

kind of dove commercial and industrial attacks began to grow up as the pope says in this this makes for a kind of new kind of snobs and which turned and ben fritz and to france for its a scary thing in yemen and in an eighteenth century lots of manners our operating from france it's in the it's an accusation that we begin to do our own books about is the best man and expect lots of the us citizenship and that is the point of the view that generation was assured of the law i think even a very beginning they all his films silver something distinctly american yes we felt that we had a surplus whenever one of the american way to self examination begin to say apple books and talking about all related century or what was the first the president is visiting her sisters the influential innocence was lawful

or phones netbooks using to switzerland and books writing about other countries a lot of it a depiction of the good new england quentin and he's a sitting american veterans against other people's there's a lot more mr kind of this comparison william weaver so you have the leader of the old world but i read that the great drive the great wave of books self conscious books over the books of self examination because of crimson and certainly come along the twentieth century was almost ice with a great way to see the second jews because there's all the countries that will force in the most disappointed with all the other branches anyone when i mean the field since tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of soldiers overseas to other places people to be more aware of other peoples lives naturally more snow and i think that what i would probably read strong into effect in this i would be the fact that america

suddenly found some position approach never been before schmidt rather an easy and began to make it hit wonder whether indeed it was a worthy of payment to place of pardon rather embarrassed by it i think that you are in the same position having great britain was little the nineteenth century when the play metal also the despair and the british were famous times and the general is undesirable people a way to be in the main positions of depression to compare a arnold under the current prison mcconnell to remove computer monitors i've read it knows better than any of the regime even feel in a country that the situation is the same it all was trying to be as a pacemaker for the ideal british of his time and a great many people in this country now and i think the same thing for americans at this time was taken up a lawyer and as a modernist as though because i've been on in the eighty six isn't as mrs sims musical about homo sapiens is such a multiplication a

box at ease with which bills are produced and sold in markets a means of you know that will have a great many more but we did the last year we don't you do it because you know most of the month brings a new book of a commander talking about not only means good as in a similarly imagine and homages do think it's simply a day of writing of a fan and making a quick buck so to speak of i don't think much on alaskan and it's too hard work made quick quick book of american tourism a bit distasteful of control liane i started mother first the first piece of the sort that i ever did was a piece called high roller robert a row which is meant to be a set her on this kind of thing and then suddenly discovering didn't quite seriously what sociologists when the same thing happened when the vehicle you man you weren't dozens of sales it's a concern and it's a description of a course of these job to turn seriously sometimes can cast

a ray of light on what we do what i wonder about this kind of book is how much of it is a serious examination of a character with some envy you know how much of it is simply an attempt to find some kind of easy self gratification self justification why didn't ms thomas of justify with all of those books i read i think if you were norman mailer's book sold books i read this year called normal notices but as in wife was there was to berkeley and talked about the doctors or what is a normal growth norris's isn't any immediate vicinity them to or what they call and just americans feel in touch with aid effort is unbelievable things i'm ava loves much disapproved of the rising seas or on the automatic like the self interest and their bylaws they are taking the adjusted american assad regime had agreed to cope with the difficult as american life my point being that it's a tech i think is the real identity of a lot of these writers that complaining about their fellow americans are incredible smart i think that's true i think that if it is time now

to a packed the phenomenon is that all the focus that it used in a church and i think a number of books is probably sell any of her comedy set and wrote a recent article examine american care for you and you are listening to one of our characters disintegrates of government and that is a self covers most easily into complacency this and arrogance an american has rather more than his share of votes he believes that his country has reached the pinnacle of civilization the american consul he asserts that he enjoys a higher standard of living those canadian countries and canada have higher as medicine is the best in the world though his country's eleventh and infant mortality than his form of government is unduly the best level of some fifty new nation to see that prop it wasn't true and i thought oh well integrated into <unk> isn't true intentions and shelby and i would suggest this period comma carol johnson silicone which cannot require local cod carrier which is nuts unfinished cathedral

it takes issue with with the idea that anybody has the right to sell america as it is now what we're trying to strive so america has is what we wish were going to be and if it's half finished that's the orphanage than he thinks it is i don't think it's a great deal of complacency i think we try and sell export and ideas about that what i regret it was really the issue is the way it is something synthetic which we want equality but yes it's it's gonna propaganda which we rode distrust of americans like propaganda much like they pride themselves on dancing for propaganda and therefore they use it rather badly one of their veteran has written about them and which is so contradictory they must know that somebody is not the only things that have been written about americans we have i'm really going to be raising to

say something true about america but the american case is the kind of initial times about four five years every day i was a little i know there were so many exceptions i think is known as such a moment it in english i think he's got another fringe candidate that the reason americans seem to me to be a fundamental individualists i think that rich individuals and i wouldn't like that overall they can live on to my impression so much in cincinnati as often my life in new orleans off la clippers and above russell crowe i don't individuals i wouldn't think that americans lose interest a propaganda for the games themselves and i think they're giving alleged this they may i think that some folks have been useful like what whites book on donald position than you are to sort of make your position in some ways with its own poor but socks and this has more to do over with that with the institution and gripping forcefully institution grit and the individuals oh i'm feeling about itself its relation and rail against the public because

they are useful examples including calling attention to flaws in the organization of assessing x factory that's the victims and that's the reserve is so low the xbox and as part of the city so as hell it was but those asian men some of it is the catchword it does not necessarily mean if i hope it's true they're that we'll all just use the word easily i turned to no longer examine what means it means that we've applied it somewhere along i'm gonna come which you grew up i would think so yes i think that the only what's broken and unpacked it looks or are greatly exaggerated norton that point of course the point is at i think the point is made that offer useful i'm using sitting in that was known as into there's a test of different kinds of three minute long as i'm a little igloo and it struck me that i was in the british army inspector in the british army and a high level of albuquerque mistakes and said no we're right we reconciled and we're going to do it this way maybe three times over the same when it failed three times if we judge explain having a bath it from american friends

this was not something they had to do was go to prison time they had to make the mistake themselves they know my point being that americans i think a pragmatic sense about how the considerations which is second in a visible and enable it was a one state and make it as a also the president have to believe that they can be made and we were skeptical of things we pride ourselves when we're not rolling splendid piece and it was a lot of the american concept of invincibility no i'm not going to write about which was that was the notion that that they're that you mentioned before that is an accurate is those things on it is wrong it is if it has a good export thing and we possibly being jones is not so i think you know we don't go to that one again the main goal was only based on a similar notion we don't want the migrants and say mistakes twice as this incident is jill johnson's great hope isn't that while one of the positions that this this mayor has is written history partly removed from mythology

only puerto rico over the history he thinks we have a chance to nominate an ex again we're the first was jewish an organization that never had a real and immediate this accumulation of stuff i said stuff is puerto rican history and this is not suited for the job and we don't mean you know he needs western civilization questo written as character yes yes by one the mostly new regulation that emerging enterprise the world are emerging nations you they wear their new missions which an excel and former repeating the process that into when on this country i wonder if they also going to turn themselves in searchlight of self examination rescinded and i was using case that emotion to have that income when they have been a rich life in the nineteenth century it was one about that is the united states energy situation the latest is now the british i think an incumbent i went about why that's happening and has gotten into a frenzied so biddle is a

reflection of where you stand in terms of the african state when stand in a long time they went away that's what well what they were worried about a recession what we worry about weaker so concise it's a problem that industry pickens from the things i've heard about that and that is these people come here and i spent a few months may go away right it reverses is precisely what's happening about loving nation and was going to write a book about get out and they every right reason at the same time i think you know for your furs at the very beginning before east are wondering about commanders and then eventually your morals and family about really really exist but you do have to manufacture a kind of existence for itself were passed and i think that made a new countries are on the end of our own history of first time trying to create another resident we did that at the beginning you still doing this this is the one about the popularity of this new book why do a really solid

since many people read your books was blindly was what i wish that i could say that that they're anywhere nearly as ninety were red horses rest of it i think you are exaggerate some reserved for a lot of these books and very few of them so a great many copies well i was a girl the cell phones as men have that right as he's been read by non muslims of people i think at levy's book which you've mentioned if it so ten thousand copies of the us it's sort of a sage and ninety thousand copies in part covering that story for the paper that sort of ten years more enemies is a lot of reading a year which is being run now flies the thirties and only because we were to falter because the massacres is because of a lot of cells is because i think you said earlier that it might be because we're always changing and that has made his news

assistant ever really has a history of love of love this is the eighteenth it is there is an examination kinds of people who've made a taste change others it's not sociological examination that sentences terrible week we are still know where we came from i think in that sense the m last book about it which is the best get americans is again a look at the development of ominous of the social history of the new normal so swiftly but we do believe that it's the silver pseudo sociology at the time as it's going on i wonder if a lot of this is red because people on it were reversed how does britain who was responsible for more ideas that anybody again this is a difficult and raise a review would have resulted in this country you have an enormous

number of different streams of light coming into the light side and kind of an interesting cat and incomes they exhibit but what caused some reason by daines in joints mostly moms and those people is interesting when emotions about what they were like a nuisance and they went after the victims says that is not his name medellin streams creeks streams puerto rican streams sagal well coming through wednesday's event about a hundred and fifty years or so and i did in a setting of the component parts of all of this is another component parts and it interested in they feel them up and we all belong to the same country where we're already are nba season edition of the united states which takes us all and i think there's a lot of information but it's sort of an infamous incident doesn't lead a percentage of people who would like to have some light from the situation of the united states yes it was really funny very hard life it's a very very complex thing as an innocent as an internet

isn't a single homogeneous it isn't only think you do it because you were able to vote wasp of the nicest dr tony macklin has nerd civilizations i'd have to disagree with it for some investment that you're saying that he tries to oversimplify us eleanor to get everything in the virus infection we're going to make have not read about it in its final reel of red flags in the book that i think is going to explain to you americans don't know i tried so i'll read a real answer to sell it has developed like the same has to come to the united states doesn't begin to find real facts were mostly what happened to the idea of mr robin we love conclusions about it that has incentives to enter the making of others and they were all there there's the point right there was the price chosen that raises some questions about a lot of

coverage it is that it oh it because all their conclusions which are people we want because we have a conclusion and it received knowledge of the planet's much is moving up in a cell condos of the new books include larry page it doesn't quite hard to do things that flows over the country this size and i was those were the small extent was a minute and there that intentional they didn't have listened to me loving zuckerman and a question of people who say well i know the cost of schools wasn't hitting those and they had it i think father's inevitably because they want a pickle they can go into a limited a much more say than in england is one that gets a little listener letter mr we move that we don't travel well nation in the world isn't going to see what less than knowing oh you but of almost anyone europeans who come here

probably government or curriculum the native americans and that they will be as small as italy's of the medical examiner in france who have recently and cell phones is that the two reasons or the faith of little agreement that is they would have reasons that is one hundred images of us does that i mentioned reason is an unreasonable name when his pals and they have to rush ms dinoto is one aspect there's i think that we've we've overlooked in that that is not books the magazines and the extent to which my business today are devoted to the same kinds of things really the dominant books of fiction has as morales more and more disappeared of the mac magazine and that sort of sociology or realtors yeah you have companies that a place that's too much eliza maybe because it's a section

disappearing <unk> disagreements amusement park at once was that was once a vehicle for those democrats actually get it no longer a supervisor and an old box of recently which were the real voice of reason this country and that was fiction of months of late and then it is the role of mrs been taken in my movies wooden buildings and since the problem with questions i think at this time that we've covered the feel of books and all that back and regrettable could work is self revelatory something of life gets to thank you very much you've been listening to gateway to ideas a new series of conversations in which ideas are discussed in relation to reading today's program the american genius for self examination has presented russell lines editor of harper's magazine and alan price jones book critic for the new york herald tribune the moderator was about batman managing editor of horizon magazine to extend the dimensions of today's program for you a list of the books mentioned in the

discussion as well as others relevant to the subject has been prepared you can obtain a copy from your local library or by writing to gateway to ideas post office box six four one time square station new york and p isn't as a standard self addressed on the right about six four one time square station new york gateway to ideas produced the national educational radio under a grant from the national home library foundation the programs are prepared by the national book committee and the american library association in cooperation with the national association of educational broadcasters technical production by riverside radio wypr in new york city this is the national educational radio network

remember va