Challenges to Democracy; 6; Elite and Electorate: Is Government By The People Possible?

challenges to democracy [intro music] world and american leaders consider how democratic men can meet problems affecting the survival of freedom with justice in the world [music] The talks what you're about to hear are part of the tenth anniversary convocation of the center of the fund for the republic an organization dedicated to the examination of democracy in the contemporary world. The studies of the center have ranged widely over all institutions of modern society the church, the corporation, the labor union, the military and the government seeking to know the conditions of freedom the grounds of its growth, the threats to its survival and the changing forms of freedom itself. Today part six of challenges to democracy in the next decade.

Elite and electorate as government by the people possible speaking Senator J W Fulbright and Charles Frankel, professor of philosophy at Columbia university. Now to introduce senator fulbright the editor in chief of the encyclopaedia britannica ?Howe? Ashmore. It has been suggested that senator J William Fulbright maybe modern incarnation of that man of parts that universal man that we like to think founded this republic. There's some evidence to support that is been a Rhodes scholar, a professor of law a university president and as result of some relationships he could become at anytime if you'll pardon the expression a newspaper publisher. But i think he is best known as a politician and perhaps the highest accolade I have ever heard in that concern came to me in nineteen [inaudible] six one day in Chicago when i was talking to senator Paul Douglas. Paul Douglas said to me how is Bill Fulbright doing down in Arkansas. I said well he's running for reelection and

as usual he has no opposition and Paul Douglas said telling him for me me that he's not only a scholar, a statesman, and a gentleman, but he is the first politician in the land. This is not prevailed six years later the senator has just concluded a successful campaign. He did have opposition and this time around even have republican opposition. So he warned me not to ask him today to say anything very kind about the two party system which is daunting in the south. I have the privilege for something more than a decade to actively be a constituent of Senator Fulbright. I consider myself still one even though i have turned in my poll tax receipts and do not vote in those precincts anymore. I think it's a matter of fact time one of a large number of people in this country and all over the world who consider themselves constituents of this singular man who is one of that group of ornaments of the united states senate who speak for this country and for the

west and are heard across the globe. Senator Fulbright [claps] [claps] chairman, ladies and gentlemen. I considered it a real honor to be invited once again to newyork city. It's an honor which comes to me [inaudible] when we Dr ?Hutchens? asked me to speak today i thought at first it might be appropriate for me to discuss the status of democracy in my constituency. Having just been elected as ?Mr. Ashmose? told you, i can report that the electorate of Arkansas still exhibits a remarkable degree of sophistication and discrimination. I may add that discrimination has developed a greatly and bigly influenced by Mr ?Ashmose? having been editor of the leading paper in that state for a number of years.

I have upon reflection and after further letter from Dr ?Hutchens? and then Mr ?Ashbaugh?, I concluded that they wished me to discuss the question of government by the people from a slightly broader point of view. So i should do the best i can although I am bound to say that the prospects for democracy in this context is somewhat less favorable. The question before us i think can be answered very simply. The government by the people is possible but highly improbable. The difficulties of self government manifest throughout the world. The emerging nations of Asia, Africa and Latin America are struggling with varying degrees of success to make democratic government work and even one of the oldest and most sophisticated free societies all the western world has felt it necessary to put its destiny in the hands of benevolent but

authoritarian leadership. The history of political thought in the last century and a half is largely one of qualification, modification and outright repudiation of the heady democratic optimism of the eighteenth century. The play is still on, writes scott becher and we are still betting on freedom of the mind. But the outcome seems now somewhat more dubious than it did in Jefferson's time. Because a century and a half of experience makes it clear that men do not in fact always use their freedom of speech and of the press and quite the rational and disinterested way they're supposed to. The major preoccupation of democratic thought in our time has been its continuing and troubled effort to reconcile the irrefutable evidences of human weakness and irrationality which modern history has so abundantly provided with a political philosophy whose very foundation

is the assumption of human goodness and reason. The dilemma had troubled all of the free societies of the west none more so than the United States whose national experience until a generation ago seemed to represent the realization of classical democratic theory. Early American history seemed to know an almost literal fulfillment of the philosophy of John Locke. The new world represented a state of nature in which free man entered voluntarily into social contracts from the mayflower compact to the declaration of independence and the constitution of 1787. We were permitted to believe that we had entered into civil society by rational and unanimous agreement and that in Lockian terms we had done so for the sole and express purpose of overcoming the inconveniences of the state of nature. Herein lay the

basis of a limited government, a delegation of authority to government for the purpose of administering justice and protecting the natural rights of the sovereign individual. These rights as the declaration of independence so forcefully asserted were conferred on men by law of nature which no government could abridge or alter. The relationship of the individual to government was contractual rather than historical. The core of this philosophy was its assumption of a benevolent law of nature and of a human species endowed with a reason to perceive and to implement it. Similar to the Lockean philosophy in effect if not in detail was the utilitarianism of Jeremy Benson and John Stuart Mill. In the utilitarian scheme, a limited authority is delegated by people to government for the purpose of fostering conditions of public happiness. The responsibility of the

rulers to the ruled is guaranteed by frequent and free elections. What is common to both Lockean and Ben to my thought is that their deep faith in the rationality of the people, an inability to believe that the people might not always perceive their true interests, that even educated men might fall prey to emotionalism and demagoguery. In addition to the defects of concept and content, classical democratic thought is marked by a strikingly un-historic spirit. It grandly and inexplicably conceived a democratic society as an orgon created by a single act of human will and reason ignoring the empirical lessons of the centuries of english history through which representative government had been tortuously involving in the face of numbers of obstacles and diversions. If english men

could fall prey to such delusions it was far easier for americans whose revolution lent some credence to the abstractions of rationalist philosophy. The revolutionaries of the seventies seventy six in this country inherited a society which was already the freest in the world. Its freedom was built on solid foundations of english traditions and constitutional principles which formed the bedrock of future stability. The revolution was not directed against a futile [inaudible] regime but against the most liberal and progressive monarchy of Europe whose oppression of the colonists had consistent consisted in a recent and limited infringements on long established rights. The greatest advantage of America said Alexis de Tocqueville in a

profound insight, lay and not having had to endure a democratic revolution. The American experience has thus had the appearance but not the reality of a society built by fire to the specifications of rationalist philosophy. We have been permitted the romance of imagining ourselves revolutionaries when in fact our democracy is the product of long tradition and evolution. The [inaudible] mischief of our rationalist illusion is that it leads to erroneous inferences about our own free society and about the prospects of government by the people elsewhere in the world. Most notably it blinds us to the powerful limitations on human action imposed by history to the incalculable difficulties of building a free society and to the basic incapacity of man to

create viable institutions out of the abstractions of pure reason. Societies said Edmund Burke is indeed a contract but as the ends of such a partnership cannot be obtained in many generations it becomes a partnership not only between those who were living but between those who are dead and those who are to be born. Of all the schools of anti-democratic thought that is sprung up in the last century and a half not including marxism has struck more deeply at classical democratic theory than that of the irrationalist who contested not only the intrinsic rationality of man but the power of education as a liberator of human reason. Irrationalism was a dominant strain in the late nineteenth century political thought. Walter Bagehot analyzed nation making in terms of

his historical processes of non-rational imitation and custom building, leading in most nations to a stagnant traditionalism and all in a favored few to an age of discussion in which man's frail powers of reason are at last liberated for self government. Graham Wallas, assail the brittish tradition of [inaudible] rationalism as immature and naive contending that the average man was already a victim of symbolism and superstition in a political jungle of irrationality robert michael's pointed to tendacies towards oligarchy that he considered inevitable in a democratic society the poet yeats express the new view of man with his this harsh pronouncement the best lack all conviction the worst are filled with passionate intensity the descent from democratic optimism in western political thought was more than born out by events

as a result of the great conflicts of the twentieth century the worldwide dominance of the western democracies has been lost 30 years after woodrow wilson proclaimed the world safe for democracy the north atlantic market for democracies find himself preoccupied with the defense's a western europe a chaotic latin america and the fringes of the eurasian landmass against the passport without very unhappy the conflict and upheavals of the twentieth century ad from a democracy is on the defensive and generated powerful strains within the free western societies themselves that without rights walter lippmann a function of the range of the relationship between the massive that people and the people he writes democrat power which they are incapable of exercising and the government's they elect have lost powers which they must recover if they are to go

the impact of mass opinion on violations of war and peace and the twins analysis is to impose a massive neck at a critical juncture when your courses of policy and he did liking disastrously behind the movement of events lipman contends public opinion for steve and to keep peace in nineteen ninety and refused to act against a resurgent german indian or warriors and finally roused to baptisms of hatred and unattainable in the second world war that need never have occurred the impact of public opinion says lippmann has been nothing less than a compulsion to make mistakes for a politician who says that the pleasure of his constituency because of prudence has to adhere to prevailing view is to be prematurely right is the court ought to the politician at least is a premature recap

we can get to the ironic invasion of the classical democratic faith in the will of the people not only does public opinion failed to hold a politician with a chorus of wisdom and responsibility but on the contrary to take the right course requires a singular act of courage on the part of the politicians a few might share that will sully in view that there's nothing more honorable than to be driven from power because one was right but far more prevalent is the outlook of mortgage or two or more than one occasion quite candidly rejected proposals rosemary he conceded on the gravity did not wish to be crucified it all in your interview which is a prototype and not without some air in my opinion as leonard lark and still less constructive purpose in being defeated for failing to do the impossible can we reconstruct the

excessively optimistic democratic thought of the eighteenth century into a chastened but more realistic philosophy of government by the people i'm a weekend and there's believe i think is prevalent among the widest a statesman's dollars major reason and the possibility of injury but the strengths and viability of democracy rest not only on its aspiration but also on its accommodations to the limitations of human wisdom imagine ability to perceive the infant democracy winston churchill once said is the worst form of government medicare advisors except for every other four are and jefferson's words and you said the government you know can even be trusted with the government about it on that we

found angels in the form of change to govern him yes men often irrational in their political behavior does not follow that they're always heroic and what is more important it does not fall out that they are incapable of reasons well in fact the people's capacity for self government can be realized depends on the character and quality of education it seems to me an astonishing distortion apply are things that the american people and their government gladly spend billions of dollars for space exploration while denying desperately needed funds to the public school i do not really i do not believe that a society which as shameful a spy been neglecting its public education can claim to have exploited its fullest possibilities and found that morning the case for government by

at your reputable in survival address on the need for experts and specialized knowledge the average citizen is no more qualified for the detail administration of government and the average politician's qualified to practice medicine or it's been out a lot and it tries the basic goals the fundamental value judgments that shape the lives of the society the judgment of train the league is no more valid than the judgment of an educated people elijah the navigator is essential to the conduct of the voyage but a special skills have no relevance to the choice of whether to take the voyage and why we wish to go the distinction of course is between main sit ins the experience of modern times shows that when the passengers take over the navigation of the ship is likely to go on the rocks this does not mean that their chosen destination is the wrong on on that an expert

would have made a better choice but only that they are unlikely to get there without the navigators guidance he demonstrates a very idea of democracy or dictatorship derives precisely from its refusal direct route that ruling elites make the basic moral decisions and value judgments of society western democracies have made grave mistakes and suffered grievously for their air in allowing decisions or policy to be dictated by transitory popular emotion but the absolute monarchies of the past and the dictatorships of the bloodiest century ad rock harbor and then it is upon themselves by committing their people to the pursuit of utopian dreams and what that mess i include in this judgment the ruling dictatorships of russia and china which are required they're people who sacrifice individual will and judgment in the pursuit of those that

on that neither rooted in human nature nor oriented there you have it has been the core classical democratic party the concept of free individuality as the ultimate marlo value of human society stripped of its excessive optimism about human nature is a core classical liberalism remain valid an intact the value and strength of this concept on its promise of fulfillment from and basic aspirations the philosopher and a psychoanalyst agree whether it whether issues from reason or instinct than the basic aspiration is for fulfillment as a free individual a reconstructed philosophy of self government accepting the weaknesses as well as the strength of human nature must plays heavy emphasis on the development of the human capacity for rational smart choice the challenge to

public education is nothing less than to prepare the individual for self help accommodate his capacity for free inquiry and his more humane humane instincts to teach him how rather than what they think in shock to sustain democracy by what route but perry has called and expressed insistence one quality and distinction a reconstructed philosophy of self government must replace an ingenuous faith in human nature with a realistic faith in human capacity recognizing that self government though the best form of political organization that men have devised is also the most difficult the muppets you shot must come to chat with man's weaknesses and irrationality while reaching out for the best that is in here actually revised approach to democracy has certain implications for the way in which we organize our

government conducts its effects as americans without deeply rooted in fundamentally healthy distrust of government are we might start by police reexamining certain long held convictions based on this distrust of bell we might at least consider the proposition that raised by lawyer added that liberty looked upon as the right to find and to try to realize the best that is in oneself is not something to which parties necessarily cost there that indeed such liberty may even meet the active intervention of a party to make it possible return to my only a metaphor we must guard against allowing the navigator determine our destination but we must allow him to steer the ship without amateur supervision of every turn of the wheel politically is chosen because of his supposed qualifications for the job is qualified he should be allowed to carry out

according to his own best judgment it is judgment is how defective by his intellect or the gadget very low his constituents however must recognize that we have a duty to his office as well is to them and that their duty in ten is to fill the office but not to run that we must distinguish between the functions of representation and gobble require elected leaders to represent us while allowing them to govern in a time of continuing international crisis with the danger of nuclear war never far it will it may be well questioning whether the enormously complex and slow moving procedures all the american government are adequate to meet both the dangers and opportunities of our time relations and thick too often decisions of principle oppose older neglected an opportunity lost because of the obstacles the decision to impose about

policy process the source of this melody malady is the diffusion of a foggy between and within executive and legislative branches and the accessibility of all the centers of power well a wide variety of pressures and anxious the problem is compounded by the durable missed a jacksonian democracy do that and illiterate citizen can do almost any job and a democracy can do without a highly trained administrative really far in politics wrote that the new demands scarcely any of those qualities which a democracy but this and a requirement under the perfect use of almost all our faculty is and which it is deficient a democracy is unable to regulate the details of an important undertaking to persevere in a design and to work out its execution the presence of serious art it cannot come by majors with secrecy and it will not await their

consequences with patients these are qualities would jump which more especially belonged to an individual ought to an aristocracy at least since nineteen seventeen the ability of the united states to advance its national interests intently as well as externally has come to depend upon our ability to cope with worldwide revolutionary force since the dynamic forces to understate the matter they're not readily lend themselves for treatment through the leisure lady liberty processes of the american constitutional system my question is not whether who we might wish to alter our traditional foreign policy making procedures but whether in fact we have any choice but to do so in a world of the obstinately refuses to conduct its affairs under anglo saxon rules or procedures the source of an effective foreign policy and our system is presidential power

this was never more clear than in the cuban prices of october nineteen sixty two when decisions of the utmost gravity were made with a president with the assistance of ali's most intimate advisor is in the executive branch the circumstances were such that it was quite impossible to seek the cult leaders of congress who in fact and quite properly were informed but not consulted howlett had in fact implicitly acknowledged beyond feasibility of consultation in an emergency by adopting in the summer of nineteen sixty two resolution authorizing the president you're sort of necessary to our vital interest in both you and renee and i'm a year is a fine policy though relating more to long term problems than two immediate crises when presidential about it falls short a presidential responsibility as a result of the diffusion of power between executive and legislative branches and within the lab the five are the power of the congress

and the constitution enable it to implement modify or thwart the president's proposal proposals but not itself to initiate or to shape up these powers more widely dispersed in congress among autonomous committees each under chairman lord little if any of anything in the way of political obligation to the president the defects of congress as an institution reflected the effects of classical democratic thought he's retained primarily in our case to foreign policy and domestic matters it seems to me the congress is well qualified to shape policy of the executive and in some respects more so because of the freedom of at least some members from the particular electoral pressures that operate on the president the frequency of elections and the local orientation a party organizations however do not encourage serious and sustained study of international relations congressmen are acutely susceptible to local and regional pressures and the waves of fear and

emotion sometimes sweep over public opinion they legislate darren sharp is under constant intense pressure created the prey prevailing tendencies of public opinion however temporary and unstable public opinion must be educated and lead it is to both very wise in effective foreign policy this is pre eminent really a task for presidential leadership because the presidential office is the only one under our constitutional system that constitutes a forum for mahler political leadership on a national scale surprisingly i think that we must contemplate the further enhancements a presidential authority in foreign affairs the prospects she's a disagreeable and perhaps a dangerous one but the alternative is your mobility and the paralysis of national parks in the revolutionary war which can alleviate the consequences are

immeasurably more disagreeable and more dangerous the preeminence a presidential responsibility is in no way an implied license for the legislator part to evade national and international responsibility and to surrender to the pressures of local and parochial interests i can find and they're called know about a statement the divine this responsibility and that edmund burke in his classic statement to his constituents seventy four with which you are familiar i'm sure as a freshman senator in nineteen forty hit it in a speech at the university of chicago to define the proper role of the legislature are in relation to his constituents to the nation and to his own god after sixteen years i see no reason or the view of urban expressed this fall yemeni legislate doris career discovers that there are certain interests or prejudices of his constituents which are dangerous to drive away

some of these prejudices may not be a fundamental importance to the wealth of the nation in which case he justified a new ring them even though he may disapprove delegates is whether prejudice concerns fundamental policy affect him and i go well there thousands of values the ability to discriminate between that which is a fundamental importance that judges only superficial is an indispensable qualification a good legislator as an example i mean i just think the whole tax issue in isolation is because of the persuasive my colleagues on the national press maybe about the evils of the vote that i did it its fundamental import an actual follow the views of the people of my state although it may be a symbolic of conditions which recommended to floor it is exceedingly doubtful that its abolition of purity of our major problem on the other hand regardless of how strongly oppose my constituents may prove to be

to the creation of and participation in an ever stronger united nations organizations i could not tolerate such a policy in that field unless and until it becomes clear really hopeless in conclusion i should like to reiterate the theme of these remarks the government by the people despite its failures and shortcomings remains the one from a political organization that offers the promise of fulfillment for our highest aspiration although you'd been compelled to qualify the unlimited optimism of classical democratic thought we remain convinced that the core of that thought they believe in the mall sanctity of the free mine and a free individual remains the most divided of human philosophy in combat fears words although you no longer have the

unlimited insolvent backing of god or nature we're still betting that freedom of them i will never do this through the proposition that all a thrill freedom of the mind candy reasonably just society ever be created you have heard centered jw fulbright recorded by wor dr new york at the tenth anniversary convocation of the fund for the republic the center for democratic institutions next charles franco was written among other books the golden age of american philosophy and the democratic prospect he is principal author of the power of the democratic idea and his comedy research professor of philosophy at columbia university where he earned his phd degree dr frankel has lectured at universities of paris and dublin the new york school of social work and bennington college is the recipient of the guggenheim and fulbright fellowships and the woodbridge prize now to introduce charles

michel what gerald michael teaches philosophy at columbia university and to a wider audience through a series of notable books the most recent of which is the democratic prospects as a practicing philosopher is of course their universalist and if you have any doubt that i suggest this brief biographical note is plentiful right fellow he's been raised the professor at the university of paris has been visiting lecturer at the university of dublin told michael hayden mr ashmore is give me a chance to say in public would have long wanted to say that there is any man who has a role in my life by raising my standards it's senator fulbright i find myself in so much agreement that like father murray i too am embarrassed because of lost that has a conditioned reflex as you

know in the reflexes to disagree one definition of the philosophers the man who thinks differently i find myself in very very greatly if we have sympathy with this tremendous france's suggestions as to be pivotal importance of participation of the very great desire for participation and representation in contemporary democracy i think one of the most crucial issues that we do face and assessing our present condition and future prospects it is the issue of participation the issue of the degree to which ordinary citizens can take an effective relevant and useful part in the affairs of the commonwealth i would gut say not so much in criticism of human responses pick up as in suggestion as to what i should like to see you do next it is art speak of participation i think it is very very important to try to

distinguish between types and levels of participation and i should try in remarks i'm going to make two least indicate how i would think on that subject with the senator fulbright oh i thoroughly agree isherwood were a classical inherited democratic very badly needs revision my own view is that we in fact may very well but behave a lot better and our theory logistics leaders to suspect inherited democratic theory leads us to criticize as diseases in contemporary democracy what is often a very effective adjustment to the realities i would only say this if i'm an adult myself for a moment as a professor and speak to an erstwhile professor i don't think we've inherited theorists of democracy the old appears to walk through quite so foolish and certainly not nearly so optimistic as a senator fulbright let's on james madison

just take one example was nobody's fool and that what he took for granted i think has a perpetual problem of all political situations or political systems i think it's the problem which democratic theory and modern places most clearly is a problem of continued this agreement continued rivalry continued competition between interests between persons between pope indians marxist theory would like to imagine that there was some magic alchemy by which in a future good society this could be done away with if us some as mission and this was made very plain that this agreement is actually is in some way or other a fundamental doesn't read or sophisticated human societies then you've got to figure out some way for reasonably and peacefully modify and regulating these disagreements i think

the classic democratic theory health issues and in this respect up now with respect to father maurice remarks i find myself in agreement with his emphasis on her to end with his very i think that's to remarks about the difficulty of defining the phrase other people i cannot resist saying however as one who happened to know some languages in which there are no definite articles and knowing that it once as to say languages in which there's no word no word at that it is very hard to make a distinction between the tradition and a tradition of what we knew the tradition and received opinions the tradition is certainly a set of opinions received past i am not quite sure of it are what political means mentor with democracy and we could define what the condition is i myself feel that i live in a society in which there are many

traditions and i choose my own received opinions usually i have some on my own or received i should take like take the time that led to me to talk just a bit about the problem of elite and electric as i see the issue as a philosopher in that i think maybe my place to try to define terms with little precision because i think a good deal of our difficulties about theory about the fact that we aren't thinking carefully about the meanings of times let me turn first to be a word a week i would point out in the first place that in the context of modern specialized expertise in the context of large bureaucratic we organize government the word elite is not used in its classic for word elite in its

classic form stood for class classical genius background presumably will come and social out we're now talking about people who are quiet positions of off it or people who acquired positions of great advisory important due to some specialized kind of knowledge or some specialized kind of experience now with respect to discussions of elites as so newly be fine it seems to me that we have to actually make certain assumptions which we very really bring to the surface when we bring them to the surface i think they very quickly and be shown to be in fact the most immediately seemed to be erroneous now the questions are for example what's often raised is why people in their passion and their foolishness should be allowed to know when people who know better when they get in the way of people who know better one of the assumptions here is that

technical experts agree those of you are economists of those who were lawyers or for that matter those of you who are doctors will know that this is just not so technical experts do not agree perhaps the range of disagreement is a little narrow and it is for the rest of us but it is not the case that every those who occupied elite positions in modern society can be held to hold some one position it's partly for this reason that i find mr walter lippmann this book a little difficult to follow it seems to me that he assumes always throw at the elite groups that would govern foreign policy would have an easy way of coming to agreement my own view is that there would be a leak is holding different points of view and we would still need some mechanism for determining what set of leaders will regulate our house the second assumption that seems to me to be streaming important is the notion that the decisions that are made in the political field by so called experts on the elite are technical decisions they are

but within extremely narrow limits i can think of very few important political decisions that do not involve the weighing and assessing of evidence from a wide variety of different specialties now this means that each of us even those who of us who aren't experts when people become very quickly layman the moment we move into another field the view that expertise is a prerequisite for holding public opinions on public affairs it's a view which does not disqualify just some of what's known as the people it disqualifies all of us no one today can be an expert in the fields he got to it only be an expert in in order to make public decisions what is called for and making public decisions accordingly is not omniscience on a competent knowledge but something closer to wisdom and common sense and an understanding of

when and where and what reasons to rely on the advice of experts this is ultra low were questions of morals are concerned that senator fulbright quite rightly pointed out and as i should wish to underscore i think that there are no expert in morals plato had to justify the view that there were experts in morals in order to justify the notion that philosophers should go from society but i disagree with you when he turned to the problem of elites it seems to me the crucial question for all modern societies the soviet union as well as the united states is that you have competition among the elites and the problem is too worked out some system for regulated competition some system for choosing leaders which will govern this process from a pragmatic point of view i think democracy is one system for choosing those

who will eat and in these terms we should now turn to the question of the electorate the most important thing that i would wish to say about the electorate is this is so far as the mass of people are effectively involved in the political cohesion of the country they are already organized in groups and i usually lead why professional leaders the political process is not in fact a process in which they are opposed to we it is a process in which some groups with leaders are in and other groups with leaders are out the most important modification that would add to this two simple formula i have very little time as you know the most important qualification is that there are also some groups that a way out that is to say they are not in the competition or one of the great problems for democracy

indeed the evolution of democracy has been largely the growth of a political community in which more and more groups of people have moved to an organized status i've become legitimate members of our political community with leaders who could effectively voice their interests at the present time in the united states we are fighting that battle overly the negro groups the negro groups are seeking to gain legitimacy they are seeking to gain the same voice as the white groups when people talk about opinion in the south has generally meant to be wide open when the negroes wish to be regarded as legitimate to that negro opinion also figures in statements about seven opinion equally important issue particularly in a society as investors are on is the problem of reaching the unorganized the invisible in the united states today for example the old people do not have effective organized representation

interests of the urban groups are not effectively open up very often is necessary for government a democratic government to take a lead in organizing the unorganized and providing the voice was with a voice problem of the relationship of the electorate to be a lead is essentially i think the problem of association and organization will this brings me to my conclusions and i would stick them very briefly first of all i think we have to reappraise the standards which inherited theory has told us to use in judging democracy with regard to the competence of citizens for self government it seemed to me these are the questions that are relevant have made the requisite ability to judge human beings of a shrewd enough to tell the genuine article from the shot of a shrewd enough to tell the demagogue from the honest man of the obvious answer to that is certainly not always very often not but it seems to me that over the history of

democracy you can get a pretty good statement to the effect that the people haven't made all that many mistakes over you must remember that they can only choose between the program's presented to them by leaders can only choose between the candidates presented to them by the elite troops they often as a voter i have sometimes wished was what i wanted why it had to choose between mr pei and asked to be was not my preference for mr day that led me to vote for it was mike this preference from this debate that isn't entirely my fault it is the failure of elite looks but i think on the whole we have to ask were human beings have enough shrewdness i'm not and by the way i think television here is helpful and get underneath them and skin interior who speaking from the heart and who isn't i think the second thing that is important is that the electorate understand not the details of the issues with a general spirit tampa drift of the issues they have to have some understanding of history they have to have enough

understanding of scientific methods enough understanding of intellectual discipline to be able to see documents have come out of a certain context and have a certain but finally i think an extremely important issue once again is the question of leverage if i were to say what the most serious defect receive democratic theory is i would say it's a tendency to suppress the significance of leadership in a in a democracy the crucial question is recruitment distribution other equipment and distribution of leaders are the best people in a given society willing to go into politics do they find the public like a satisfying and rich one is it to punish me is the morality the pull of politics one which they would retreat from these are very difficult questions but they are issues on which the charge of government turn secondly was the distribution of leadership is this leadership of labor unions talented and educated leadership

corporations where are the leaders were those were voices where if you will the question of the distribution of talent in the community greatly affect the problem i never turned to the issues that the cement is false that to emphasize questions of participation i would say the crucial issue to my mind is a way in which are voluntary organizations and not to avoid a dirty words about disparities we make pressure groups are organized in the next ten years it seems to me we shall have to move very very strongly in the direction of guaranteeing rights to individuals within great voluntary ok so called voluntary organizations the center for the study of democratic institutions stand up to very interesting material on this subject the second great question is how we empower groups particularly groups in areas where people now do not have effective

representation finally i would say a very important issue is an issue of the centralization no i do not wish to be misunderstood he and i do not think we're going to get myself i do not think we're going to get the centralization in the united states without i plan on it because you don't invent sense i think only coordination of plans at a center is likely to produce the necessary the centralization which can give individuals a chance to work on the local and regional level at issues they have the competence to deal with i do not myself think there's any great intrinsic virtually participation as such people have their own personal lives to live if they do not wish to participate my own conception of a man's rights are such that he should not be asked to or forced to but the tragedy of contemporary democracy is that many people wish to many people have their interests involved and participating but cannot find a channel cannot find the avenue through which they

can make their voices heard and their energies felt this seems to me to require the application of perhaps united states his greatest creation in politics and that's the federalist principle operating just last month an article by herbert liu think and switzerland people's liberties in small things and particularly in small things were regarded i myself do not feel terribly disenfranchised them the present every day where decisions about your book or something else being discussed i want a chance to choose the leaders will make those decisions and a farm out if i can if i don't like the answers but i do feel disenfranchised when in my own neighborhood or my own professional association i cannot i can of course what i would envision franchised if i could not get up and speak and if necessary work out loud enough slamming that allowed honestly knew i'd

left i think they have a sense of impotence at the local level is the crucial issue i think you've got a busy day at like and without a parable which to me seems to be very important to all of us citizens as we try to judge our responsibility start young couple it was considering divorce they went to the marriage counsellor rights council said well before you go ahead with that one should be down the block and talk to mr and mrs jones who'd been married forty years and are perfectly married couple find out what the secret of their success is well down and when she missed mrs jones we're happy to see them and to shut down the stones stolen the corner mr jones held the floor and he says well please secret of our success at the very beginning of our marriage we clearly divided responsibility it was determined that i would handle all the big problems and mrs jones would have all the little problems they said thank you very much for that may

help a spot on the way out and suddenly occurred around simple just to be sure one of the big problems and what are the little poems he said well mrs jones determines where we shall live and what's cool kids will go through and how to plan a family budget and if i get an offer of a new job or whether i should take it chairman what should be done about the solomon international monetary regulation and the hydrogen bomb charles freinkel spoke on the lead and a lecture at his government by the people possible at the tenth anniversary publication of the fund for the republic the center for the study of democratic institutions heard earlier was senator j w fulbright this has been the fifth in a series of twelve programs concerned with challenges to democracy in the next decade and onyx program you'll hear walter p ruther head of the afl ceo and a burly jr a director of the twentieth

century fund and of the accord and the law in france speakers at the tenth anniversary convocation of the fund for the republic if you'd like to know more about the center for the study of democratic institutions you're invited to write to dr robert nam a juice box for all six eight santa barbara california they need nice nice for broadcast live the educational radio network the national association of educational broadcaster is the voice of america and a canadian broadcasting it's

been a week the agency says the educational radio network as both fb