1969 Strawberry Festival Discussion

april meeting of the national black economic development conference and they try to not get much press coverage which in retrospect is amazing since the conference had in its own words declared war on the white christian churches and synagogues its declaration of war was contained in a so called black manifesto its principal demand was that white churches give american negroes five hundred million dollars in reparations or injustices suffered through slavery its principal spokesman was to be james forman the former head of the student nonviolent coordinating committee mr foreman chose a sunday morning communion service at riverside church opened his campaign on behalf of the black economic development conference he interrupted service as much as the specific demands to riverside immediately became front page news but that was only the beginning since then most churches have been confronted in one way or another and the painful ethical questions posed by the demand for reparations have been hotly debated in every forum at riverside to the debate continues as elsewhere the black manifesto triggered a wide variety of

reactions pro con and in between to give a platform to the different points of view among members of the congregation it was decided to devote the annual strawberry festival to a debate on the black manifesto the only tradition maintain was a serving of strawberry shortcake we bring you now the full two hour debate on the black manifesto as it happened recently at riverside church here is dr eugene volokh executive minister who introduces the five speakers as you know the major event of our program tonight is rather a multiple of meant rolling out of the confrontation at riverside by mr james foreman and spreading to a much wider area of the nation than just riverside itself there are many different kinds of questions to which we could address ourselves and they are as usual at riverside an enormous variety of opinions which have been

expressed about what was done and about what we ought to do from here on out it seemed that tonight's meeting could most usefully proceed along the lines of trying to get an overview not only of where we are is at riverside years but where as we see at the situation is on a broader scale at some of its deeper meanings to us as a congregation therefore we have pulled together a group of people in each representing a particular level of knowledge or expertise or background or represented the same and we're asking them to make initial statements to you each one in turn speaking on individual topic when the members of the panel had finished we're going to provide a time when they can have a kind of a confrontation with each other

to raise questions and then we're going to invite you to raise questions of clarification first of all the people who set up this meeting have been worried about whether a group this large good discipline itself not to talk over time by a few people who like to grab a microphone and make long speeches and so we have set up a series of ground rules and i'm going to try the umpire them for the remainder of the evening first of all when we throw the floor open to questions of clarification we mean just that we mean that there will be an opening time when you may ask any person on the panel what did you mean by or would you define what you said when you say and we want the questions that concise and that firm if you have to make a statement of more than thirty seconds or to get your question understood i'm going to call time on you and ask you to sit down and let somebody who is sharper

focus his question so please get your question concise and to the point at the point of clarification after we've had a go around in terms of being sure we hear each other then we're going to open the floor to point of view expressed from you and if you desire a dialogue with people on the panel however once again there are over four hundred of us we cannot all speech we hope you will discipline yourselves to say it concisely what needs to be said and again not take up the time of the other three hundred and ninety nine people with a long speech if my message is getting through i hope you will take it to heart and discipline yourselves in terms of what you say from the floor were not trying to shut off conversation were trying to see that more people have a chance to express their points of view on your pink shapes you have a list of who the people are who are sitting

behind me on my right dr ernest e campbell preaching minister of the riverside church next to him is not losers walker but david hunter who is the associate general secretary of the national council of churches directly behind me and beautifully blocks were most of you as lucius walker is executive director of the inner religious foundation for community organizations incorporated henceforth this evening to be known as this skull seated on my left here is mass produce got was a member of the council and christian social relations council seven of the church next to her doctor full of phoenix with professor of philosophy in education at teachers college at columbia i will introduce each one of these people in turn and try to identify a kind of area in which we have

asked them to direct their thinking their remarks and you're thinking we would begin with a statement from dr campbell who will address himself to what happened at riverside and what riverside meant by its response the best thing that's happened in mazer this whole confrontation is the fact that i'm one sermon ahead yeah i have three points of questionable quality away there in my file i hope to use under a different name some sunday i'm sure that of all the people on this album i'd i am the one who raised

knees and lee says there's time to stay because i had spoken often than you know pretty much how i feel and the major purpose of this night is not so much to hear me again or the point of view that i represent i would rather to hear from the other members of the panel ann even more importantly from members of the audience and i would then like simply to reaffirm three points that we're trying to establish as a response to this manifesto the fur it says that we are stubbornly resisting all kinds of pressures most of them long distance and not local so focused on as the foreman vilified him and renounce him for what he did to riverside church my own judgment at this point is that mr foreman has done more for riverside church and he has done to riverside church but

by focusing on as the foreman we then another unique way of ad issue of it so forcefully wanted us to say we must recognize that there are millions of aroused americans and millions more around the world or not happy with the present arrangement of things political or economic and a single out was the foreman who happened to be the immediate spokesman would beat him as the point entirely let me in this i'd say that i have a personal respect for this man in my judgment he is what might be called a purple heart veteran of the civil rights movement i know for a fact that he left a job that had security and a certain amount of prestige to align himself with the cause of his people and therefore no other reason unless they would command and

receive my respect secondly we are consistently trying to support and we hope the theologians in the congregation will help us to do so more normally and effectively double identity of the principle of reparation now we're not telling us from the linguistic point of view we are doing it from a spiritual and moral point of view some of the mail that i received has suggested that this idea has really no saturday behind it at all what has this past you can't sawdust unfortunately what happened in the past continues to handicap great numbers of people in the present and in our kind of competitive society a person who is handicapped by virtue of color is that a clear disadvantage and is not able to run the race the rest of us are running

and so i'm prepared personally responsible not in many jurisdictions but in a moral sense recognizing that simply saying we're sorry is not enough we must demonstrate it with some of the coin of the realm the third thing i like to reaffirm is that we're quite serious about the fund that we announced on that saturday night message on which has been endorsed by the board begins of one which is now being looked at as to its formation and structure and rage by a task force of seven people in this congregation i have heard not a sentimental either within the stack or from the congregation that any of this money should be given to the national black economic development conference there was never any intention or desire in my mind that this should be so

and i say this for three reasons first the revolutionary character of this manifesto especially in its prologue and it's the pilon is not something that i can subscribe to an even more importantly is not something that i could ask people to give money for so that in the interest of realtors and we could not subscribe secondly we are not convinced that the national black economic development conference is sufficiently representative of the black people i know this from correspondents and telegrams i receive them from phone calls and to turn over lions of the magnitude that we anticipate to a probe that is less than one month old which in a sense is to repudiate other groups of longer standing who had been at this job i think would be something that we could not defend my judgment is that there is great moral force behind this manifesto

when you try to rich business yet the rage businesspeople at the economic level this is why the bus boycott in montgomery was affective because the bus company was losing money but when you appeal to church people will presumably have some openness to god the strongest appeal is not an appeal by the rattling of swords and the frightening of violence but i feel that every faith but these people have professed however nominally it would be my fault therefore that this movement as it takes off from this point in those national in a big way would downplay the threat of violence the hardware because this will only polarized the country in my judgment and strengthen the reactionary is lawrence's to suppress any moment of this sort there is enough power in

it on the marlins spiritual basis for all wide awake christians to respond partly it the pope lucius walker jr is the executive director of f cole an organization about which we have heard many things and which we do not understand many things we have heard we've asked him to speak about his organization what it has said and where it sees itself in this particular movement was twelve i began my comments with through stories both true miller had in my life meant most to

me and this particular story he related to a group of us who studied under him at andover newton he related hobby in his congregation first church cambridge and one sunday morning a woman who was obviously moved by the spirit or moved by the message or move that any rate on loans during the course of his sermon proceeded to the chants so and was about the latest self prostrate in the council his despair was that he had such a well trained on shows that if she touched her knee to the castle the us is head of it on and i'll have a side door before the congregation knew what happened and was that

there was a contradiction to worship next story in the course of my study of worshipers grew up on that does a community and other notable moments and experiences and worship as they with me through the years and that is constrained makes a knot extol the form of worship but it's deeper meaning and to celebrate what it may constrain people to do and how it may be used to express the existential moment my second story a true story surrounds a common which was related to me by migrant minister in the state of new jersey some years ago the only place on the migrant camp in south jersey that could be used for worship was a death toll in many of the very conservative

religious migrants themselves did not want to worship in a place that we used on saturday evening for them and the only way he was able to convince them that it showed them that way was by challenging them with a statement that's when god and the devil me that never wrong that any place as a place where one maybe god because indeed everything belongs to him i believe her at least what for me is implied in these experiences began to suggest something of what it goes about it is the church at mission in the mid twentieth century it is bold enough to break with some of the forms and some of the traditions and to meet people where they

are and to minister to them and where they are and to not ask from them for journalism or a to offer them paternalism what asked from them gratitude it is bold enough to use the church's resources not simply to convert but to change the conditions of men and just so then that's legal assistance to bringing in the kingdom of god in the twentieth century there were three things that i should say about us which will help to focus a bit more clearly and how we proceed to do this first of all we are coalition and we know that boldly in a period of time when separatism is a way of life and understandably so for many people we did that began as a coalition we began as a rather paternalistic

expression of a white church and its very deep concern for the welfare of the monarch for an urban and rural ghettos around the country when i came to the job if cole was comprised of ten member agencies and its board was entirely white we discuss the meaning of this formation an odd day and realize that no longer at the church with leadership dominated by white church men conceive of programs or make decisions about how those programs should operate for persons and community but that indeed it was time for there to be a serious partnership and mission where the people in those communities could not only participate in decision making where there could be an orderly transfer of power to the people whom we would presume to serve so that today we are an

agency made up of twenty three organizations most of them members of a fellow at this point in history of black this has been a period of two years during which all of us on the staff and on the board have learned much we've had our horizons broaden we've had our understanding of revolution and we fall deepened we've come to understand something of the rage that is very real in the minds and the hearts and the communities of chicago in the indian and the black in our country and we've been able to translate this into meaningful energy by which people were very discouraging and different and wider ranging points of view come together and discuss their differences and hard turns and there's been growth secondly we're foundation well foundation in the very technical sense of that word

there are at least five major categories of foundations and we think one of those rather well that of the special purpose community foundation our community being the country are pamphlets as a community foundation being essentially for religious organizations and institutions our special purpose being the furtherance of community organization as a means of building power among the poor whereby they might aggressively and buy their own design me just the grievances in our society we have all the appliances and qualifications of a foundation legal administrative organizational etc i should the law be happy to discuss lee's in greater detail of their questions find a way not unlike many foundations we are engaged heavily or increasingly and

specific and creative programmatic operations we are convinced that there is a need for some creative developments in the area community organization our activities today and especially in the area of training and economic development about a year ago that go this idea that one of its contributions as a community organization foundation could be the initiation of a plan for organizing some of the bird and can express resources and points of view in the area are black economic development to this then we convene a conference in detroit on april twenty five one of the results of that conference is an organization that will go along under the same name without control by echo but in its own autonomous right as an operative in the area of black economic development that which has been heard most frequently from that conference

is the black manifesto the person who has been heard most frequently from that conference is james forman is understandable and probably very appropriate i think that it is unfortunate however that the many of the very same things are addressed and the manifesto many of the very same demands and dramatic objectives that are stated in the manifesto have been part and parcel of a high tree and a vibrant expression of the black community for many years the church has not heard this it has seemed necessary that even got a man in his elbow islam should move so aggressively against the church that it must mean to begin to think about those things which many of us and plaintive if i'm your voice for a number of years i've cried out in the church

and in church circles if coal as a result of the events emerging from that conference has declared several things to fix its relationship to that conference first of all we have officially recognized the national black economic development conference as an ongoing organizational entity we see it on par with some fifty other organizations which we have found it this means that we can resume proposals that we care upon proper examination of those proposals to find specific programs at that group may propose to do we have certainly encourage the group to be even more broadly representative and it is although we and i was done and we represent a goodly number are black and white citizens from the establishment and from poor communities around the country think that the steering committee of the national black economic development conference isn't be

representative secondly in order to fix the distance between us and that we may more appropriately compliment each other we have to know of course that she'll serve on the steering committee of the national black economic development conference this is in keeping with our policy in regards to all other groups i might say to you that there was a very good progress and two members of the a cost that serving for a very brief period of time on that steering committee i think it was very essential that we do that we do not regret having done that and we recommended and fully concur and the resolution of our board of no of course that's so forth with henceforth serve on the steering committee we also committed ourselves to see from the church's mondays to provide for an administrative budget for the national black economic development conference it has operated this

time without budget and without resources it cannot have the opportunity to do that which we feel that his call to do an outline we haven't tested programs of the conference those problems i knew murdered in the manifesto we did not become shaken by the rhetoric we understand all too well that rhetoric is inappropriate expression of persons who are caught up in an appropriate rage i would commend to you reading the book black rage because i think in some ways it speaks so apropos so which of these in the hearts of many black people and we committed ourselves specifically to channel funds which may be earmarked for the national black economic development conference to act according to those criteria and procedures by which we do our business we would hope that this would speak to the church's that rather than being taken aback by the

rhetoric rather than being shaken by the ideology that we would understand that that is a viable and appropriate expression of a community that is a great community has every reason to be angry and that we have before us two options in the broad sweep of things in this country one in his revolution and the other is reform i'm personally deeply convinced that we have never taken the reform option very seriously the revolutionary option is not one which we make shoes but it is one in which we'll be thrust upon us and pray god that this church and every christian congregation and every religious group in this country and beyond the religious groups two

other private sector organizations and public will receive not only to the manifesto but indeed to the manifesto god has given us to do that but as i travel around the country i'm convinced that within ten years unless we move swiftly and this country we will and the phrase not that same survey portend and the preliminary to the manifesto and my friends that is not a threat it is simply my own humble analysis and i traded you think seriously about what we do and they cannot hide behind the guise of theology with the guys of worship or the traditions and the structures of the church but did you break out of that that you move courageously

and closing let me try to reinforce this by telling you a very simple thing a few months ago a youngster brought to me a puzzle simply nine dogs equally space in them and three rose three dots on each row and he asked if i could connect each of those nine dots with four straight lines without removing my plan from the paper i worked on the puzzle until one o'clock in the morning i simply could not do it until someone gave me a clue and that clue was you have to begin to think creatively break out of the morgue run conditions why would you have been accustomed to thinking before he and the theft of the herons with the admonition to before he made me begin to think

and it wasn't until then that i realized that i could not connect those that in a square but that i literally have to go far outside of those strikes the appropriate angle by which i might connect those dots with four lines and i would wish for you his sense of freedom and excitement and fulfillment that i felt as i solved that problem and i would have moneys you have to be free to be creative to think well lee to think outside of the limits that we have been restricted to the pain our next speaker is stuck and david hunter associate general secretary of the national council of

churches we've asked him to try to set riverside situation in a larger setting of what is going on in response to the manifesto into nominations and agencies across the country i don't know when i last appeared twice in one week in a local church except that it would drive along i don't have that privilege last week meeting with the benevolence committee this church i'm relatively confident in fact quite confident that i did a much better job last week then i'll do the night because i had a sense of finding a subject that was given me last week much more exciting i had known no lockers subject last week telling the committee about if carol which i find an exciting organization the talk about not tonight my subject is to tell you

what the charges are doing about this thing and that isn't quite as exciting although neither is it depressing because some things are beginning to happen and things are happening in this church for which i am most grateful for the action that has already been taken by your official borden by your party at sites may i am i waiting for the discussion tonight to see whether the congregation excites me too the demands which were they placed before this church in strikingly similar form because they relate to the same fundamental demand have been made of the number to a number of agencies and the life of the church in this country especially something of the same demand has been made to the american baptist convention episcopal church the

lutheran church of america the roman catholic archdiocese united church of christ united presbyterian church in the usa that's essentially a three fold demand in terms of the specifics and yet the real nature of the demand is not reflected directly in those specifics nonetheless it is the specifics and of course they were frightened tactics and the ai ideology undergirding the specifics that i produced the shockwaves payments were demanded ranging from fifteen million two hundred and forty million dollars on each of these institutions further a year the demand was made in terms of an ideal payment of sixty percent of all of the income annually from investments another economic holdings and then there were a variety of other actions and service is not one of the

response been well i think it has to be said and that i i don't think that one can be too critical of us that substantive response to mr for men with respect to this specific demands that he presented substantive response has not yet come from any one of these ecclesiastical sources but a number of other things have been taking bribes and one could almost say that there has been a monumental response in terms of what has happened to people's emotions in people's minds of an isis suspect perhaps even their digestive two social conventions have been hell in the last week where these present patients these demands were presented by mr foreman where the rounds up and debate it with intense the terms of opinion

is probably putting it rather conservative boy at the convention i'll be the annual meeting whatever it's called it the american baptist convention held in seattle mr foreman was given fifteen minutes to read his manifesto and then fifteen minutes was provided for reactions and responses from those in attendance the new president all the american baptist convention i like that at this meeting dr thomas kilgore jr a black clergyman is quoted as having said the following i don't think a five hundred million dollars is an unrealistic figure when it is only won one hundred and sixtieth of the gross national product i don't necessarily agree with their informants tactics and i'm not sure reparations is the word to use but in substance i guarantee it yeah and that the quotation

and apparently most of those according to the religious news service reports most of those who responded to mr foreman in the period that followed were favorable to the idea of reparations and to the demands may but no action was taken by that convention now it being a baptist convention that's not surprising to see how an american baptist convention could take any action that would even be suggestive much less binding upon march and pocketbooks of episode of the country nonetheless i predict that the board of missions we'll take some kind of action american baptist church knows how to respond to moral challenge and a moral demand and i predict there will be a response they're not that they only at

noontime united presbyterian church in the usa concluded it responds to implement them as will still be debating what they were supposed to adjourn at noontime today in san antonio texas and undoubtedly the greatest most bombastic demand that was presented them on which they debated was presented by mr foreman himself and yet received a response well as the foreman consumers at the response to him and to what he demanded i don't know but it certainly was a response to the demand it was not contemplated or planned before and it took place in direct response and was voted finally at two o'clock in the morning after a long long meeting that particular document which was a pro i went and produced a program that was the response which was a program

which it came from this convention began with these words and i know quote the opening paragraph are black and brown brothers have something against us we are grateful that they have come to the church to tell us about it we are shocked but jason and still uncertain about the way they have come for generations they stood silently waiting for us to read their situation and respond to it later they came as saddam's now our brothers have come to us in a new way to shake ups that challenge our basic attitudes to jar us loose from our times even in part by their arrogance and therefore

intelligence some uncertainty and gratitude can we accept this new way of speaking to us to affirm that it may be unnecessary mode of god's coming to jobs and help to free us from racial attitudes that de minas those were the words of our goods united presbyterian friends and they introduced this action which was voted a commitment to develop and fifty million dollars for the four was agreed upon this fifty million dollars would be administered by a border agency all the church or an organization such as if pro anything that was decided was to raise fifty million the the way it would be handled was not decided and indeed since it's charged know a something about raising fifty million dollars having just

concluded a campaign like think raise seventy four million dollars they will take the next year climbing that campaign and they are committed to raise it secondly they vote in order to boards abortive national missions and kumar which is the board for missions really to appropriate immediately fifty thousand dollars each for use by a macaw is to be used to be released when echo has approved the manner in which the money is to be held and administer which indicates the trust that this church places in the organization of which the walker as they executive officer it also it also ordered the board of christian education to appropriate fifty thousand dollars from non

dalmatian sources to achieve certain assignments one of which is to negotiate for the release a great portion of the gas lamps which that board owns in new mexico in order that it may be used to own by and used by spanish american people in that part of the country well this is some indication of the response that has been forthcoming only in the last forty eight hours from that church the post global church is in session this very day there executive council in greenwich connecticut debating the subject as they have never debated anything in the past and i've seen some fairly lively debates in their body and i don't know what's going to come forth from that i'm going to go home tonight and for longer than i usually do because i don't think the fight's going to be

over until tomorrow morning and it you want to join me in your prayers tonight you may but here is an indication of where their leadership is going and the person other presiding bishop and bishop they know is the number one bishop right under the presiding bishop in the administer national administration of the church this quote i am pretty solidly convinced membership brain that such support the support that the black manifesto is getting that that support by and large is not support of the manifesto are its rhetoric are its tactics in many cases the notion of preparation but rather of them all presentation mr foreman has made of needs which the black community deeply fails and two which neither church your nation are yet making an appropriate response and as the numbness quote which he provides from another bishop

of the episcopal church as follows every black person in america is for this program no matter what he thinks of the organization or the language now that may be putting at almost every black church in a black person in this country is in agreement on anything and a money point every white person is and i think that quote has captured something oddly support whether it's possible we are not that has come to this manifesto again apart from its ideology or its tactics by people of this country and increasingly from the white people want to brave closing more about the national council of churches reaction and i haven't run the gamut of all of the reporting i might do on on this matter of response the national council of churches adopted a statement on may

two just a couple of hours after receiving the manifesto from mr foreman himself who presented it in person there was a chance i wasn't time to do justice to it and nobody's had since the may attempt this big substantive in response to a document like that with only a couple of hours on your hands the job or however deficit recorded and if you were aware of that non plus why the reference to this action and time magazine i hope you're not correct your image of what we did which was misreported in time the job board record and it's deep appreciation to mr james forman for his present tension also an explanation concerning the bike manifesto and the job ward shares the aspirations of the black people of this country from which it's fine and then they the action went on to urge the

communion the thirty taken millions of the mcc to give serious study of the manifesto and it referred to a manifesto to doctor espy to be studied and to be acted upon by the executive committee on june twenty three and there are some some in there is some intensive work going on now of a quite intense tomorrow and on june four in preparation for the june twenty three maybe the national council of churches through its program activities has been supportive of it go from its very inception and it continues to be sympathetic with its purposes and its objectives no official policy actions for years an official policy action since nineteen sixty seven the national council of churches has espoused the following statement the following actions the channeling of massive resources of our society

into ghetto communities to be used for reconstruction and development according to their own rather than outsiders no other organization created by religious institutions has done this as well as to go out not in my memory as an ad that evoke such a combination that seems to make our present month deal and creative foment in the life of the church as has this black manifesto regardless of how he characterized the demand is a demand which requires a response there will be those who i am sure will for over dam foreman for the way in which is made it in the rhetoric was what ecologists and

are those who will also revere him but in this one instance it seems to me the issue is more important than the man that many instances where that is so in this episode in our present history this is so the issue is that demand we are under from god to get off the black man's back to make it possible for him to have every opportunity of white man tears and to realize the massive changes that we must bring to pass if this is to become so from this issue as your minister tonight has set we must not permit ourselves to escape the pain ms bernice got has worn and continues to wear many hats at riverside

has been an officer program chairman for the single young adults he works with the young people was one of the counselors in the news department he holds a significant role in the conflagration social relations we've asked bernice to try to represent the point of view of what does the black community in riverside have a stake in the issue which is before us early states but many ways had been trying to improve the plight of the black population some have succeeded but most have failed the limitations the black men must be lifted from the bottom rung of the ladder and now almost last resort is an appeal to the church's of the nation these religious bodies have long been the plan at the moral force i'm

conscious of the nation the black man has been taught to read it and the child will go to legal and crack an illegal kind of animation theres a phrase which says in god and trends well really sadness here is simple the manifesto saying to the black community it's time to wake up from the narcotics sleep produced by the droves of religion we must become fat cells of the narcotic like sens dialing nine bay which is rendered as ineffective for the thousands of our own problems ten ways to accomplish the fact that had been suggested in the manifesto if they implemented it would mean for the black community the end to land at home the end to land and homeownership in iowa and south a

beginning of the end of craft and skill of the nile in the publishing and convenient history of our country a way of entering into mass communication that's it that's having a voice in the decision making process is a genuine attempt to affect the problems of black people and suggests feasible solution of remedial process laura level entry into the communication field and hopefully skill training and many others an attempt to assess in restructuring the welfare system of a country a grassroots effort to apply leverage an attempt to improve the economic status of blacks black self help to organize support of our age we can summon to economic means an insistence to no longer rely on the establishment

to protect us and our image most importantly the highest caliber of education math think sensible to all blacks with capability after plenty needs have been met and we do feel that if a call would do a good job and helping us government's basic terror weapons that matters the aforementioned demands the manifesto is saying to the black community it's how can we benefit from the well produced and our country that's bishop as when the battery and sadness there is a group which we feel can mean i'm on fire and meaningful riverside church listening to this group of black of the sabbath can mean and what today and what that congregation they can be until ten second balance system

to weigh the rhetoric of what's proclaimed against the feats accomplished it didn't make sense the city of new york new york state and out by printing country more importantly we all white house services at the group to help in setting priorities and administration of measures what's the girl's separation i'm concerned that the feeling maybe convey that suggested reading an article but tonight massive roots that's a nice to do it and they can kind of discussion of the manifesto at separatism suggested gotten very bad bout with this exception we'd like people haven't you must withdraw

take time out we know it will but we must be able to project identity as a human in a hole this we cannot do and as you know this is the lesson of so called separation the purpose of mediating identity is to help us to enable you to be location on just the lawyers that they'll misses the point entirely on the lack of integration of flights into top echelon of the corporations there is no live trained educated capable blacks to feel any job description currently available in any corporate law business structure in america the problem has been and all the common that racism in this country that prevents they're being occupied by that at this point if i may give the personal example several years ago i

finished from one of the privately endowed university is in the city of new york with my ma in hand and what might that until may was a welcomed experience i went up and i got what six month alice tell us that a product that they would call me later they with indian that they promote from within and now as the view that it's not human organ reason mr lewis feels well we know he also feels it we should note the culture of the establishment let me remind you american blacks have been dealing with the establishment of the past few hundred years this is so and facility lacks is now have to be learned by them since the gnawing of

our businesses and a lot of that the pope dr philip phoenix has held many positions in the riverside church he currently works with a councilman parish life and is a member of a large of their executive committee we've asked him to try to gather up some of the questions some of the theories some of the expressions of opinion which have circulated around through the congregation and through the community and which are the science need an airing if we are to talk about them openly and honestly boxing ring time is going by and asked me to speak for five minutes

he asked me also marnie call me to speak if i could for some of feelings of the average white riverside that's quite attacks who is the average riverside atlanta put it in a single phrase i would say the average riverside or by tradition and by conviction is a christian liberal this exhibition which runs from gary anderson force pick through robert mccracken to the present and it can know what does it mean to be a liberal christian or a christian liberal it means to be a working first one whose christianity is relevant to the problems of the day wandell believes that the gospel of christ must be made affective in the affairs of men but one of the crucial aspects of this gospel which has been

central in the life of his church over the years is the demand for racial justice unless the other than three phases to this the man away with this demand has been met by this church during the early years of the church it consisted in a sense a rising of conscience in a largely segregated society desensitizing of the conscience of the christian to be the man that which would change this kind of segregation the second phase was the stage of integration the production of an inter racial fellowship which says churches been very proper way and then within the last very few years the so called black power you're and you're out black self consciousness and black action and iran which has produced many difficult reflections in the christian liberal but i

think that most christians recognize that this is a necessary phrase in the development of a truly just society so that i think or at least faces that of the sense of sizing of conscience that of integration and that now of the recognition of black identity is an avid user aspects which christian white christian liberals a firm and support now in the light of this background what can one say of the manifesto that was performing has presented and somewhat and i won differ hear from my predecessors here at the podium because i have assumed that this was to be taken at face that i have heard all of my predecessors say well it will dismiss the rhetoric it will dismiss the method then seconds or things far i want to assume that we take that the

manifesto if they see that what will the reaction of what would the reaction of a white christian liberal bleep i think first of all he would rejoice that the black people are rising to claim their true dignity and they're organizing for concerted efforts to reduce injustice and to develop effective black leadership i think every person every white liberal would hold such a position secondly he would respond thankfully and cooperatively to the concrete proposals that are made for improving a lot of the black people in such fields as land bank's printing houses radio television networks research and training centers well for labor organizations higher education and an anti defamation league but on the other hand i think he will be billy the aggrieved and

disappointed and a lawyer by such a statement as that of his performance because on at least three counts the foreman manifesto effectively works against and makes it impossible for the achievement of very objectives to which it claims to give support or an elaborately denies three essential elements in the struggle for justice first it denies the necessity for truth i am i must admit and this is my personal reaction i am disappointed that my colleagues here have so easily dismissed the rhetoric so called rhetoric of the state in my business i am trying to teach people in the education business to take seriously the words they use and to be accountable for the words that you use the truth is what makes one for it now there may be a very deep i'm sure there is a deep

psychological truth or an even unintelligible truth and the anger that is expressed in this document and i respect that but i also respect language and i respect people who will use language and name what they set the document has little or no regard for truth it is a propaganda piece it is sheer demagoguery is replete with false puts it has no sense of historical reality and therefore it seems to me one would have very little confidence in the honesty or integrity of person to affirm their asset to such a doctrine that's point number one as one number two it seems to me that the document as it is set up has very little regard for social realities the church simply is not the appropriate social institution to attack

the church is a voluntary association sustained by free will offer was designed primarily for the purpose of worship and circus it is an institution independence by law and by practice of government and of other basic other us central institutions in our society churches like riverside are one of the few really free agent of social criticism and therefore it seems to me that the church the church's generally are a dry well in terms of meeting the needs of the blacks a really important needs of blacks for social and economic justice the real problem is with the business with government with light and the church can help in these areas only indirectly insofar that influences those who have power in these organizations i predict and since we have had a few prophecies already i like one year i predict that the the campaign to raise funds from the

churches will not be successful in any significant degree not because of a lack of a well more of interest in helping the black but because this simply isn't the appropriate social agency to its job has to be done and certainly it will not be done in an agency supported by voluntary contributions in response to threats and the day and my last point and by far the most important point and one which has been only a lightweight belt with is that the struggle for justice in this society for the black and the white depends upon loyalty this is the one overriding consideration it seems to me in dealing with his donkey i would use a word which may shock you what i would say that this document is clearly see vicious it is a document that is a document which

advocates armed revolution the overthrow of the government is a document which denies the fundamental premises upon which this nation a nation which is built upon a covenant to which all subscribe and agree and once this covenant is denied the possibility of freedom is destroyed for all is the covenants to agree together and to work together within a common set of rules of law and of due process within the framework of a constitution that has a bill of rights that is the only foundation for a secure justice and also the man quick justice by destroying the very processes and the institutions which make a society a common thing community hustle will find themselves and we will all find ourselves in the situation of far greater in justice and the injustice witnesses and to

overcome i am by no means convinced that there is greater justice in countries which have so called people's democracy then in the united states of america and if i again where to predict about the future and look ahead to the future the danger i see in the future is not primarily the danger of a black a black armed rebellion against the white people of this country the danger i see the real danger i see is a kind of reaction which is bound to follow the type of presentation type of action that mr farmer this is following the kind of reaction which is going to produce in this country as a conservative demand for the suppression of liberties that will be very minor compared to any kind of suppression that the blacks to armed force my problems is depression which also lacks most of all and which white

liberals will be among those who will be counted also among the missing that is to say among those who have suffered i think the basic principle what's the war between the states was for was not basically the principle of slavery was not the abolition of slavery it was the preservation of the union and i see in this document and in this proposal that way that we follow a something that means well but just as amusing quite right methods icy and there's the very the nile i'll be union which makes possible pay a reasonable degree of progress for freedom and justice for all so my conclusion is that for the sake of justice we all say we need to speak the truth we need to exert efforts where they will come up and we need to work together

as one nation under god the pain we'd like to take a few minutes and make another trip around the panel and ask if they have any extra word or a thing which has occurred to them which they need to tack onto their message or response to something which somebody else to say let's start with the campbell i think i agree with everything about phoenix's said well i wouldn't have said i wouldn't have said it because i wouldn't have said it because i don't think it's what we need to hear for a long time for years and years christians have been trying not to

successfully but they've been trying to speak the truth and to direct their aim where accounts and the loyal citizens and they haven't been getting a response and they hadn't been responding themselves now we hear a black person really is in despair doing things that maybe we wouldn't deal but in his disparate crying out for the justice and he needs and deserves and we're listening truth is relative and maybe the greatest difficulty you and many whites in america will face is that you could save quote truth and paula from an experiential reference which is ripped through with mythology and richer world is not the world of the black american your experience is not the

experience of black americans and therefore the truth that dr fein it speaks out of loyalty which he speaks of the social reality which is that cell it must be understood in that line where has the voluntary sector then through all the centuries of brutality where has the loyalty which binds the country and heals the wounds of these people ban through slavery churches and many instances where whole is its lawyers were own as a slave breeding farms i think you must know this and that's a part of the truth that has been denied us and then tiptoe through our educational system how has the covenant by which this country has been held together

works for black people i think the cry from the ghetto is that it does not work for us it has worked for you i'm reminded of something which i reminded a group of today that shortly after nineteen sixty five the promise of forty acres and they knew was denied to the freedom and on the basis of that was reverse racism just a few years later and for many years since through a variety of federal tax dollars go for mobility haven't provided wave after wave of immigrants from europe would never question about whether there was a kind of inverse justice or a distortion of justice has even in the bill of rights even in the constitution itself is imbedded the various seasons that distortion which you call the

truth and therefore it may be that our greatest difficulty is not the words in the manifesto but isn't it is the reference from which you perceive reality which is very different from the reference of which we perceive reality and we must understand and we must seek to hear each other fb i would like to add just one comment you mention that we should be loyal and there should be a mall holds its the church is representative i'll fine i had a great deal of trouble trying to maintain this loyalty because after six months of looking for a job i began to cry at the end of that six month and for the first time i realized what the man in the street felt

when he tossed the firebomb in to lend out the amount of frustration and here i was supposedly well educated and groomed to go into the establishment the only thing i can tell you is that had i had a match i would have built most of ours we would like to take the next few minutes and make your bed what the people up here have said dr this means that for let's say the next five minutes we will take if you have other questions which are questions of clarification addressed to the piano i asked you to be sharp in your questions with no prolonging or speeches there is isis and asked the panel don't answer it yourself at it and

we are we are we are yes it's an assumption of all americans and negroes are americans blacks are americans as well as whites every social says every girl must have rules by which they deal with one another as a community and the only point i was trying to make was that not that we have to follow exactly the same exactly the same principles we have now there are there are means for amending the constitution but that a society with the players a group in a society that declares itself out of the outer bounds as far as the rules of the covenant through the whole group has in effect declared itself no longer part of the nation

how many years every person is born into a nation you don't you don't start a new nation every time every generation you're born into a nation and you either accept the nation or you don't accept you emigrates you don't want any part of that nation i'm happy we wear with a lawn they were and what they were going after they were born in africa they were born here mississippi

right now there's less urgent i'd let me ask you to come to one of my microphone so that everybody in the room can hear a place i think they're alive the closest ones back what are some of the untruths that bobby about the manifesto i would have to start with the first line and also practically every sense i think there is not time for this we an african people they kill us black people in this country

about african people are american citizens we live inside the us which is the most barbaric country in the world absolutely ridiculous and we have it follows from the laws of revolution that the most oppressed to make the revolution that we know and so we must assume leadership total control talk completely completely out of touch with the allergy they they talk about the head the linkage between between churches and the other institutions of the society as if the churches were themselves the obvious sources of racism and the sources of financial corruption and saw which this document which has gotten claims are societies evolve our

he must be committed during the society taking where the wealth in rich people and all of that they need the rhetoric toward the demagoguery about leon relationship either factual relationship between church organizations and other institution the society submit intro i can't get any more specific than that well it has a lot to go through every almost every day every second city of the document is is filled with eggnog will not there's not have for a living no i have a deal of reality and i have to take that within his statements at face value and therefore i believe that he means what he says given

that person and to be of african descent to have tried in my african heritage is in no way a contradictory to my being an american citizen it's been you say one of the myths about which we live is america's a melting pot and we think that everybody kind of melts into it and melons into one and yet we maintain in the society many traditions of the irish many traditions that a german many traditions the russian many traditions the chinese and there are many opportunities to celebrate these i taught in a school once that was named has use code junior high school and the students and subsequent years hadn't sectarian sense

enough to suggest that the name of that school because the neighborhood was all black with more appropriately be called martin luther king junior high school the administrators could not understand why guns use goes a part of that polish tradition which remained tame within not the melting pot and we want our component the veteran isn't on us and to enrich our country in its flights don't understand that then you are engaged unwittingly uniform of denial and of repression and of racism which does not serve the common good as a black man i resent you're telling me i am not african and i resent you'd be creating that the play my african heritage is to dishonor my country

and the language just the quantity of the linkage between the church and the other sectors of society that's unbelievable player you're being honest enough to face the truth that there is a linkage between the existence of this building or at least of what was originally riverside and a fortune that was amassed by a man christian though he was going many of his dealings were indeed immoral and watching the urban at the

expense the workers period and i'm not making any value judgments beyond that was simply that much suggests a linkage the fact is that the persons who make up the congregations in our society other people who make up the other sectors of society there isn't a relationship there should be an interim relationship and this should be the church's responsibility not to deny that into a relationship but this exhibit eleven in life that will make society holy that will make society responsible that will christianize society not to deny that it is related to society it's estimated that as a form of schizophrenia which does the church to the inability to be the church in the

world and yet we preached about our being the church in the world that's just very general there many specifics that have to do with the sources of the churches and calm the use of the churches and calm and the control of the churches in town which i think the church would be well to look seriously at the path to a microphone so we can hear you please i'd just like to say briefly that asset and listened with an older man to each a panelist an abstract i thought the room with him and depositions as alice time a long time ago about all the people that we knew were no two people rights act

on black so we are have a right to think is the jews but not mass gunmen are the thing that i'd like to say something that senator edward kennedy city recently about the three what is it three and fifty million dollars up and apollo can when we have people donate to be hit now we can go from now until doomsday are you from the beginning up until now it would still be posing thousand late they go what did the chicken come closer they now melissa this possibility is that it's a great responsibility and fallen along with senate that they get counted as twenty three million dollars did not come from the churches today in paris he's both

first of all no i do not have to prove that he has that he gives millions to this church and i did not say that i think you misunderstood what i say i refer to i referred i referred to the initial impetus to the construct of the church i did not refer to the contemporary but at the church as beef businesses the patients

be a lot of fire in the statement that you refer to first and therefore isn't looking for that someone somewhere kids on our react to your second question it's been great so you're referring to is that the states are referring to for this section later this week

today there's no i will if you want to refer to a specific section of this and asked how i feel about it i will respond to that but i do not want to respond to a writer just as i don't wanna respond to what you're saying has america the state if you will that particular section well i won't ask you i was i wrote responsiveness which i now three races in the united states is so pervasive and the mentality of whites that only an

armed well disciplined black controlled the government can ensure the stamping out of racism in this country i have no difficulty whatsoever even understanding or agreeing with that statement let me tell you why racism in the united states is extremely pervasive in the mentality of whites secondly only an armed well disciplined black control the government at this point of time in my judgment promise is an ultimate defense against the ravages of racism i would go further and say as i said earlier that i am extremely hopeful that white americans

can proceed apace with the business of so reading this society with racism the us well that's a necessary to black people the facts are that we have not yet you have not in our society so active i would hope that there is still an option to some other reports and my judgment i do not see white america responding in such a way that i believe they take seriously the options which of that for us that is the option for reform the option for ridding society of racism now i believe your second question will usually the second question it is

when i was in seminary when asked to write a paper on albert schweitzer there was in my class or young african by the name of doubling is a totally from southern rhodesia having another thoroughly schooled in the paternalism of our society i thought i would share my paper without meaning to me because i thought he might not have good english expression he was kind enough to share his paper with me i haven't quite gotten over the shock because in his paper and i only wish i could recall this point by point the detail the reasons why he and thousands upon thousands of africans healthy quite opposite point of view than most americans of dr albert schweitzer not that he had not done some good but the fact that he had so dominated the operation of that hospital and had so denied the opportunity for blacks to learn how to minister

to themselves had denied the opportunity for any control for any protest the patient self determination for any ability on the part of africans into a song the responsibilities to administer the gifts that he had taken to them that there was a violent resistance to slights and not because of the good he did but because of the good he did not do there was a very clear understanding which i was unable to understand by this bright young african that if the africans have the alternative of a chance of continuing to be served by paternalistic missionaries and the cutter that of having to begin from scratch themselves to learn to minister to the wrong people in the spirit of self determination that they would choose the latter it is out of that background that i do not criticize any good that has been done by any of us christians but i believe we must stand on the judgment of god for all

that we have not done and in the ways in which we have emulated the attitudes of racism and the concepts and precepts and practices of an imperialistic government in african nations and in other nations that's a very hard pill to swallow but we must swallow it the pain josiah paired with mr walker in almost everything i've said tonight i'd like to respond to mr hammond's quest into as though he had directed to may be the issue that statement is this only unarmed well disciplined black controlled government can ensure the stepping out of racism in this country i do not believe that but if i were a black man i am

sure i would because white people would have put me and that way of thinking i'm sure i would believe is a fire of life left foot and i leave at you or that i don't believe it but only because i haven't heard of they're the impression that most by people over there francis ansari and then somebody else the commissioner lady about the new year there's a microphone it just is to dr campbell and to the man from the council of churches in the phoenix speaks for the white liberal congregation in this church and it seems we are headed for a revolution and not reform

dr campbell and the council churches how do you plan to riverside to meet this realization and what can we who want this realization to be met quickly do but they say that in my conversations with mr foreman in the off the record once which i have enjoyed more than they on the record once i think he had a great many other people in this country is so the tea party has really far more power than it draws all where the people learn as charged really one of my greatest concerns is the fact that when we use the expression and christo in christ we don't really taken seriously it means more to many of us that were in the republican party than the fact that we are in jesus christ or that we're a capitalistic society than the fact that we're in jesus christ and this is my concern and has been

ever since i was ordained father we make this a triumphant and transcendent commitment of our lives so i think retailers and would demand that we face the fire but all of those whose names are inscribed on the roles of this or any other turks are not really under the conscious obedience to jesus christ that they want to be now we can do what gordon cosby that we can start a new church yes seventy eight members after what ten or twelve years is a relatively popular tourist not absolutely but i don't think even garden as we would suggest that what is going in washington could possibly be normative for the churches across the country so we have to start where we all we have to find where it is that this fire's burning most cleanly we must capitalize on that kind of commitment and passion there will be another group that will stand aside and wait to say we are not really committed totally to

this there are others who will be in direct opposition to this is the way the church has always been and so as a minister i would vote for a one hundred percent response the statement that i read on the radio which i still stand so i don't think this rhetoric literally i understand that the middle line weaves of despair iman separately with with many many of the points that are even farm in the preamble because i think there has been a rather facile and glib identification of the christian gospel with the so called american way of life but unless there who feels as i do has one of two choices hillary stays in the so called established church with all of its imagery of wealth some of which is an illusion a little of witches fact staying in and trying to do his part with the other is recognizing that his own insights are also subjective

arel single out and do a gordon cosby did or sell insurance as many of my brother and in the ministry or not doing because they think the whole thing is hopeless i don't feel that badly about i don't think anybody's asking the national council churches to reform riverside church and i don't think we could bring it to us if we want to and furthermore i'm not sure that it needs if you have a fireman at work in this dirt evidence tonight by the way you clapped wow good for both sides of the question has been what i hope you will keep at work because is that ferment where that will keep you in touch with the issue and i thank god that you continued to work out ten

percent between black members can really find out of phoenix for his remarks tonight because it really in a sense he's only helping to reflect a racist opinion in character which is deeply embedded in so members many members of our congregation it comes out so easily it might make another point at a meeting last week it was pointed out that known american baptists the nomination today we have no black nation or is it all in africa that you want to comment on that and finally it has documented been written by indian would have gotten the same racist response do you think the fact is that there is the local lack of black missionaries involved in the whole missionary enterprise american baptists and all other denominations there is a

deplorable lack of inclusion of blacks in the leadership of those nominations that they have embraced even in this country and there are many of us who believe that this is another form of racism it is certainly inappropriate and not good business cannot employ people and that activity which is designed to win other people who have things in common with those other people that can appeal to them rather naturally whether it is racism and it simply isn't good business to be sure a certain point the statements that are stated here are not very different from statements of indians at the end and chicanos the next president and publisher over the last several years i suppose the black male in this country

it's held in some particular another almost exclusive form of rejection or hatred of hostility by whites and that may be because of the dynamics of our relationship over the years and what its stated here is no different from whites as well as indians and chicanos in many sectors of our country and it has not gotten the same response and that's unfortunate i think that the rhetoric here is probably no more revolutionary than the rhetoric that we read every sunday or that i hope as christians we read rather commonly i don't believe that this is any more radical than the gospels and it might be well for us to look to the gospels and really understand how radical and how revolutionary the gospels are i think your next project a microphone over here thank

you the law the

law it may be it's b oh man aurelio has business been obviously i've been there for decades i think what will happen because that the establishment of a

printing industries have not taken place i do know however that is not the intent of the steering committee of the national black economic development conference to create a situation similar to that you describe i do know that it is their intent should this come about to establish a corporation which commits be spinoff of whatever profits ma to community controlled activities for the purpose of continuing to generate self help and the increase of services and the neighbor or in the area in the country there is no intent to have personal profit recruits individuals i also would be responsible should have obeyed the channel through which fonz goes to any of these projects to manage the evaluation process and to have considerable to say about the

assessments and the decision as to whether or not one should go and if coal is not in the business and cannot by law support individual leone or profit making enterprises therefore as a commercial for s for ethical let me say that one of the ways to be sure that the money's cannot be used for profit making enterprises is to channel through f cole because we are restricted by law i'm supporting private meeting or a commercial well that's it mission

log it is because of this earlier question i just that was the finances assignment first of all to being to reflect the thinking of their average a number of the congregation

i respond to see him personally only other point but he said my personal position is my response to the other things that he said were a response to the statements which he made which in his judgment reflected where perhaps the average member of the congregation stands for all that i have no partial hostility to mr phoenix but my response ought to the substance of what he said if that substance that reflects the thinking of others in the congregation then my response is intended for them are not personally again but it is really isn't intended as a response to the point of view now with regards to members of the auto steering committee are they are listed in every copy of the manifesto that i've seen they employed person's like fannie lou hamer of mississippi

freedom rides when the mississippi freedom image credit card fine archivist when julian bond they include the reverend carol allan methodist minister of houston texas they include professor robert brown professor of economics at iowa dickinson university thanks rhode island mohammad kenya a young baptist minister who is working uncooperative find areas in mississippi and has a song for some years they couldn't l jackson a community organizer who we have known he withheld for some while and it was very effective organizer whose judgment we have come to trust because of other projects that we know him to have carried out very well mr hallock organizer director of a community organization the foundation for community development statewide reputation of sandwich some renown in north carolina and the growing national reputation who has been an

instructor and several universities and community organizations sought or off vincent harding revenue in atlanta georgia there are two persons who are less well known there are also fewer persons who will be added to the list are and their work so that will be withdrawn from the less as it appears and most editions of the manifesto as a result of the decision you called board made which are announced in my earlier comments that is my name and rainy freeman's us how much of this person's had accepted even by activists admission of the end of their names of the meeting in detroit none of them to my knowledge haven't resigned from their commitment that has some degree of divisions in the black community i'm fully aware for example of some of

the core leadership in the black community who have made far more outrageous claims than this i could be for you chapter and verse to a quotation by the executive director of the national urban league to whit that all one for white business should go to the league a thing that's an indefensible statement i think that goes far beyond the statement in the manifesto your great quotes from other persons in the papers it seems to me that one of the most serious judgment will have to make is how to identify that trust in the black community which is most relevant which is most attuned to the heartbeat of the black community and i think in all humility and in all candor that the white community needs help and that

i think it is a judgment which are ill advised to make without help and i think there are places that you can go for help and i hope that i'm making a judgment as to what to do with your funds that you'll see that there are lots and lots of people who want to talk and i'm going to have to call time on this and say that we can't do it and i'm sorry when we set up tonight's meeting we had a fundamental choice to make and the choices seem to me was what kind of a congregation we believe in riverside congregation to be and i want this meeting be to try to smooth out the rebels which mr foreman has made upon our orderly lives or what would be to really try to help us understand how deep the

depth are on the ripple that have been made there i think this is what we have been trying to do this evening not to lead you to a point of view but to lead you to an understanding of the depth of the problem to which this church and indeed the nation has got to address itself what our response candidate and wealthy is something that will be determined in other meetings than this one tonight i think we have gained a kind of a new sensitivity to the nature of our situation and i hope the new determination to do something more than has been done in the past we brought you to our forum on the black manifesto which was held on may twenty first at riverside church as the traditional annual strawberry festival the speakers were doctors t campbell preaching minister to recite

church reverend lucius walker executive director if cope the sponsoring organization for the black economic development conference david hunter associate general secretary of the national council of churches priests got a member of the council and christian social relations of the riverside church and dr philip phoenix professor of philosophy and education at columbia university's teachers college dr eugene lobato executive minister of riverside was the moderator questions came from members of riverside congregation program was produced by rene glasser