Spenser Memorial Church, Part II

for us from right to left bolivia's decision is but i i'm free fair been grateful that they can then for their presents an expert in this thought it became too that there experience he's been that might be golden age of it not edition of indulgences and oppress experiment a formula one of excess we can

line for it robert calvin moore yeah i was going to have a visit by one title is chairman of the new york state council on repetition in the vaccine bacteriology know what would help and then practicing privately as dr laurie is let the senate krueger the director of the majority yet medical center

the supervisor of the operation for one of the a methadone treatment programs at beth israel lost to become clear that the walker some bargains to you and sermons songs because of those possible effect as moderator like to ask each person the table course to present a point of view their case their argument susan who's been fatal and they don't really do you ask you if you will as brief as possible for a lot of reasons why

that's important i don't really know things necessary due to talk among liberals and conservatives in the drug dealers' not about a week ago where there's a lot of appeal they were the only liberal conservative of the wealthier cities definition of a conservative is one those in our existing il's as distinguished from a liberal who would like to replace them with vehicles now i think that's a very sensible definition i think therefore we can we can do without fair number of labels now all the fight the sale of like the seminal i thought that it was for the romans the filming of a lot of things that were absolutely desperate and i think when i started out was at the government about drugs themselves and i

think he demonstrated that in the circus i don't think something has been done and i know the representatives of her lecture i know we give brilliant sermons known that for quite a while but this just was not one of this whole area i think he's been in a very dangerous position in which the church is actually happening to proselytize got to demonstrate they're at least biofuels by an article in the new york times in nineteen sixty seven which just happen to have stayed couple years ago i don't know about all that i don't mind is that what was done here was it was suggested that the hippie movement was very similar to jesus christ jesus christ with the drop that anybody who was an innovator in the society that brought bergdahl anything to address it drop out of the innovation of them and therefore

oh now this is precisely what's really wary of it for a period of years he was right in the middle of everything and yet that's precisely what was done now you may say forget to think that in the context of our whole sermon and let's just mention as one small class about what i can assure you every one of you know turkey is at this particular research says that they had the moment is not a presence that it is valid in has a great deal to say that they had a moment to death out on from this final sermon from what it would do would be to say c he says that we are going to correct and we are like right we're integrating an opposing what the site is doing and what we do is there for what we do is use drones know anybody who live every moment as of november nineteen sixty seven and early nineteen sixty you know that moment

when i first sort of the union address a flour mill dr wandel that same report after report in like six months later the same reporters were sent in late nineteen sixty eight summer nineteen sixty eight we get back up at the moment not just walk with her at the moment is no moment without brooks well we knew that because mama mama started we weren't actually that her to see what they were talking about at that time it was a cult hero but apparently not a lot of concern and at that time in the city one year later with amphetamines and that i believe they are now on tour really go there but there's also a republican area you know it is still the center of a form of a unity moment what that moment is inundated

with amphetamines that is now so inundated with the law we go there every single day and other family related so i think if you were to invest that i don't know the in a moment would do the rubble and i think it's a tremendous mistake and it no matter how you do it carefully here and a full sermon although you say it is misinterpreted on the outside so i think the church in a very difficult position second i can't ignore the fact that any drug that he's talking about gun control individual is one thing if you take a drug and you control a drop but none of the groups that we're talking about it in that category and he's one of the growth the drug may eventually get control the individual attorney after that or quiet or heroin addicts or alcoholics anymore and what's the individual now save his life on the drug and the drug controlled and i personally think that if a small number of

individuals rather lose control and the drug control and patrol their lines that this is a position that should be virtually can follow ori cares or society to urge you might you may accept the necessity for people taking drugs for one reason or another but in some way to reverse that people take drugs would make its role on patrol amman is very disturbing for you to carry that one step further you know what we're really working on people with a paper of feel that their identity dominated from the outside and you're not thinking about that on a realistic possibility of further than one can imagine in one way but it's really intriguing the very strong possibility that one nineteen eighty you should be able to go down to the drugstore and

your father's the vatican of your husband is somewhat blunt in the morning one in the mouth it was the way many states within twenty years thanks to the possibility of a lot of people about or drones with drug available that was that will literally be turning on hold on and all i have to give up or serenity frantically nbc is our freedom as a matter of fact his real consideration be given to go one step further and suggested that audiotape though we will be able to start actively employed in the area of the brain electric wire and turned on the plaza now the author of a question is literally walk or get a lot of them are lighter and i'm realistic possibility they've taken people with cancer of the brain for example suffering from

a lot they implanted electrodes wire that the attendant on every few hours a day i mean there are many without when emily now they don't know certainly that there is the real problem that's what they care is technically reform the operation that will allow people to turn on or be turned off and ultimately you have to be very careful about the law minister because what made the point is eventually emerging as an orwellian fashion control them on those who made it with a lot of what we thought about what might expand its lsd amphetamine and marijuana part well no

what is the same you'll hear jazz i said on the path all right now the people the young people are saying we want our thoughts that you

have your they are not saying we have something that is us through and it's for android app to do is go talk to people using lethal or your friends or you feel one third say they don't like apple thought it what do you get if you know but i get a euphoric feeling of togetherness may it years after the little bit it's a family it's true today you're a five first person squad now centers in small listening to the capital letters in the eu for

we were well tomorrow are ed a trivial draw and if you don't believe that what size was arkansas revealed just want to have a miserable all three thousand pages seven month at ninety two things about them and i think that every single one of these confirmed that it's revealed drought my voice the midwest has the us on a first time upset for one time when our guide of maine is because we're going to work on what may first time in four years but people are you know that is definitely the rock now please stop and let me there's

you know that the oily water for a way to soothe the law i don't think that's a legitimate claim for a mind expansion because it just isn't true if you want a kind of a minor drug with minor types of the novel outside my feelings about that in just a minute but i'm perfectly happy to argue on that basis that i figured that without a basis for oregon but mine expansion fully it's just not documented by any study now and then and then even unfair advantage of course that if anything there might be the only people who get my expression although they came as a great intravenously and that is associated with past cycles with paranoid dream cycle says according to some fairly careful sweetest of a fire ladder studies japan studies in experimental animals israel more even at that level it can produce chronic pregnant

so i don't think i can conceive it imply that there's any way related to marijuana or is the minute that day sure i was the oldest profession what the study limited on lsd suggests its characters are superficial or that they are invalid they're distorting the perception there are not good evidence of them the best that is the one that was another study reported emergence of bribery and furnace that whatever allegedly taken in the honestly not underdog of the kids whatever it does it does not get violent insights except maybe on very very rare occasions of the toxicity for the potential rare rare occasion is enormous of the time without inside yemen our policy elephant doesn't

because he won't get insider don't support the films are when he's going to get inside the work why did the department's on what he learned learned that he was egotistical how its amended need three thousand micrograms of lsd to get that kind of insight and us just about the level of insight that you get on the street now i think that the concept that even fewer deals with these drugs if you just take them on her own so on those occasions so dangerous that it has to be reported that is not true and what's more we're now seeing more and more patients who took the drug you and your professional wardrobe there's no evidence by anybody that came out on the street or taking lsd is going to ameliorate a pre existing electronic evidence that what it will be on that were used both for the purpose it

but you write in a mental hospital as a matter fact the first few weeks so i think that history we saw people to know as the internet that of the seventy or other laws the toxicity we saw a gigantic number of people who took lsd to ameliorate what they thought were their personality and they get better instead they went to bellevue hospital with acute psychosis some of these cycles these lively months days or years now in regard to doing that i think the real problem the last minute thought that lsd is it or talk to young people or cigna on search and tell people about the joys of potentially taking the brunt of public health about a pickup to be when you get through now i go around schools all time you know it's not my job and i'm really rather happy with the amount of time as a story

don't say it what the other evidence is what it was all about the leather don't just one of those duties burbank as to what the dangers may or may not be telling the pathogenic or is there fear is that as they get here are studies that say no you decide now every single time i didn't get them happen is a lot of the dusty a couple years ago and now all what you don't they asked me well what do you probably that but you know the last day probably small amounts so probably you'll be all right but hirshhorn stadium outside i suggest it's not those related and not number just related and that is a force you're going to be because of this until such time you get your promise object of those objects probably be alright and you'll be ok what these good or have applied because the problem doctors told them that they're upset that the greatest hoax of the twentieth century with the lsd against pro now i don't believe the chromosomes that

what we can tell me that the majority of published studies do not show chromosomal defects because they do yeah certainly the majority of animals because they do the question is what they can't tell me that the studies don't show that the mother takes lsd early records they are offering are likely to show that the effect because the studies show that they do now it was say these people took some of the drug it's true but precisely the same defect that are found in the test tube with lsd of what you're finding it in person what's more if you'll give lsd to experimental animals you get the same effect in chromosome in reproductive tissues now i

think is there's a happier with a therapist good at taking lsd other nonmilitary just a day after the set for your name that's what we know about that drug and besides that if you want for chromosomal be that also you've got to let know imam ali in their life known anybody societal benefit for years ago but now that alone is enough to obviate use of the drug without a chromosome and what's more there are increasing numbers of places one recorded some more about the recording oh absolutely or will tell people if you take lsd and you get rid of the disease we have a right to look for a new exhibit leukemia at all until we also don't let you take lsd a fair number of the studies show that you might have put on your offspring and if you do it will take two generations is on whether or not we wonder oh well you may not like it but lots of people don't like

facts police westerns injections and now but what about the departing i maintain marijuana is a trivial parole but the laws are that that will change the laws on marijuana but that does not mean the drugs are not you know one of the doubt that that are that huge a marijuana and you're a bit anxious to the time you get the overwhelming fact on one second it's a guy was on your little the rest of them had severe depression even leading to a counselor saw a lot is likely to take in one hundred people use in one cigarette white and frequently doesn't occur on a politically as a matter of you know if you want a lollapalooza making fifty and our program in nineteen fifty six writing a letter to the editor of the pigeons set of all

doctor and the reporter novel images that situation where its a depression and despair anxiety and so again i wouldn't have thought that this doesn't occur infrequently what i would absolutely incensed that's a hacker and that is documented be awkward answer that was emitted psychotic reactions need a hospitalization of course again it's documented throughout the literature for years in this country and abroad especially true the more potent one set of questions if we all right now we like you write down that nobody that's one person it differently but it does occur driving under their father that we don't we would be dangerous and a lot of them have been tense because your perceptions of historical i don't think that a relationship could be angry or tents and driving under the influence of the uncle or mau there are then a huge dangers which are limited all right now we agree on that then the question is are there more serious stages of eugene volokh well the

answer them on leave it is for coal one is that some people are no more leave their patrol the broader point of fact lose their goals the drug control them you get that kind of coverage oh you guys bought world was really for them without their goal of the health services and say i'm having trouble with my marijuana i'd like some advice on like a beloved let's get back to my door so that i don't think it's fair for the sake of the population that suggest larger goal is beneficial to them second is that there's the pontiff will say a final vote on the best estimate is in the neighborhood of one percent small yet fit never get yet applied needs a musical version of the drug consistently that the drug control van instead of life in prison and under those circumstances there's clear evidence of psychological deterioration and so i think that the it is indeed a lot of the interviews

there's nobody here yet whether they will receive more will now with ahmed ahmed the surprises don't think that that is still very carefully will tell us that if we were able to interview each of the people here and that they will be more likely to come up on that on the basis of late underlying depression but they can't do that i think so they can applaud that is a real publication your level of it today make marijuana more than five times are likely to go onto another drug available in the environment such as lsd that is to talk about your set this message the answer to that i would welcome to the thirty forty five percent on an arctic yes that i think americans will only allow

do you honestly evolution very similar to the very similar though i think is that you think they don't they were handing out filters you'll know what really happened join that there is indeed a topic at so that i think that's a major problem and again the final point it's the phenomenal candidate a real marijuana is relatively mild yes a large amounts of fox message what do i see cigarette that's more dangerous here we don't have as much as you thought i want to do one individual voice mail of a law that he saw there and show you any number of people in mental institutions with acute as he cycles with the kids will swear that never taken any regret it and it doesn't show any evidence of any of the drug at the time that they had been actively psychotic along the last to the pre pre summit last for a long time to believe is that those underlying

personality was there but messages are going to be more dangerous than an all were more stable would be more dangerous till now it seems to me that all articulate a panel of marwan specifies four divorced and audi strikingly mitigated that there's absolutely no argument that question before our society is i see them a one page first and make his own judgment which is what you suggested i think that's absolutely impossible we as a society have made to the public no i thought a song about the dangers of drug not people having their own spirit after all i can tell you a horrible people taking lsd over it nothing but good drugs and therefore they proselytize there was anything for nothing but the trip from eleven or better yet you could find another go in with the percentage of baggage within thirty or forty percent so an individual's personal experience with the drug is not satisfactory decide whether or not that drug is safe furthermore we have a problem across the country say young people will

try it or if you are a couple of examples of that one is just deeply and another is for young people and i was there the first time it was because it wasn't it wasn't a symposium at rensselaer polytechnic institute oh i see not when he said well i didn't sell a lot of units are they recognize that at least you could not safely reset there but that the audience changes the great help prevent an american people even in desperation i was a lot more on two different drugs laura sydell is the law that was used to give you i'm thinking about my wife thinking i'm audie cornish the value of the drug war even though i don't want to let you know about a month later stood up to that

is that as we play an outdoor well as the dr tamargo the gasoline additive that's infinitely safer as the things that were given out under the woman in africa if they're within two weeks they were coming every year three like to turn back their sleepy what exactly what it's like not to be starts at a bit of a flaw in television yet only reading everything up until including legal risks are peripheral maxim health debate much worse polio the lsd several people given that the role of the book are diverse was sharp and are now this invisible stay for free i'm free i thought why are poets community newspaper about eighty thousand year as far as the formula for is that our youth not that they are that they sprayed of their partners at the invasion well

they do federal law draw the viewer they took it and they found that when they got their lives nations what happened simultaneously is the bailout worked in the brain you can make anybody lose that if you cut off the oxygen supply is the mechanism and working i don't know what the dupont chemists and the medical people investigated after a while there's displacement often from long that when they get their listeners a very low amount of oxygen and a lot of one thousand state the other is that because there literally froze this that kept on with her young people until a nine year old girl who was thirty year old sister because he had fun with it and not obviously consult experience with what part of that but he probably affected after that and i got around and freon fact the man who's now the free on that is starting again in new york state against say we learn how

to have three on we hear first so that we can as well nobody ever since that happened that had nothing to do unify the asian app that appeared of the lack of oxygen to the brain that we're going to see another group of death by another new york state from three on because this is a picky eaters the bomb what i'm saying really is that it's very difficult to take care of the situation and charlie by education i'd like to do that i like are no laws are being felt me below me to the dangers the fact that they will then at least yes i recognized the possibility that we're going through but it doesn't work because there are problems in that it wasn't really that was a member of the establishment and everything he says is an absolute lie and he draw project on young people we may educate and we need to introduce laws oppress for

example i think we got a rough combination such as though say but these you know which one being used lsd left leaning cocaine in one bill oh yeah how so but we also have to have laws and what we must do is make our laws are reasonable and not anachronistic so i think we need jobs lost realistic for example i think we will treat marijuana as a relatively trivial drop but well what it is that we can rely on individuals there we can do so we after law solely on education because education doesn't appear to be working we must make a decision as the

withdrawal are so enormously dangerous they might be different that's a village out there with theological initial that introductory predominately feinstein i think we can suppress that as deeply i put lsd in that category cocaine meth agree that we've got to decide which drugs or not nearly so dangerous look very carefully at what their problems may or may not be and decide at what point we as a society are about to head new intoxicates know that's a very important question for a lot of one of your philosophical moral evil et cetera that way it says it isn't the rape of a hundred twenty five million every year that we use twenty five million amphetamine we have three the un's office now the question we have to face as whether or not we are

about to end and no one talks unless it's perfectly now that essentially is my view about merrill i don't think for many americans were somehow worth but if you really live now in addition to the park we will tolerate millions of products that may be but if we start that where in the world that we stop it next year somebody comes up with a drug which is not worth of alcohol and marijuana do we say yeah well you got out at it because it's no worse than the criterion for abbott well if we keep doing that we are going anywhere so many drugs available there will be an intoxicated deciding what the real question as to whether we can function effectively as a society for example if you add marijuana the day then why are you ready that amphetamine is tomorrow he's a method repeals the heels your sure the final approach uses this way about the big brother

they're saying forgiveness and we don't want or oh we don't want your monologue we want our stand here and we are not going to take another variant of it is that we're going to take the stimulus bills a day and makes us feel good review of your thoughts it wants and i don't mind well i say to them you are right and a point of fact to amphetamines pills a day is no worse than two drinks a day or know we're still wanted to marijuana cigarettes a day we have to look at this from a broader view and not the end of it so i think that's the question for society if it were replacing alcohol marijuana i both of our law personally but that's not the question facing our society they're not replaced and i guess the other thing i'd like to say i personally think the whole thing is sort of a wasted on i really get deeply involved in the reviews i'm sorry we have to do that i'm sorry that our society is still hung up on girls i think the fact of the matter

is that the church community a society so there was a public health or to be doing something else at least i can say that in the field of public health that we're not just talking we're doing we after all i'm going to have the most deprived urban ghetto in the north you know are we going to put the medical school in the center of the ghetto i am in charge of the public health department at that step now i mean that you are giving twenty five of my next twenty five years doing nothing but that we will have a department of drug abuse as i said we'll also have a department of baker won a more important one devoted to arrange a healthcare for the deprived community which now virtually without positions hundred thousand people with sixteen dark grateful we're going to have a department of nutrition because under nutrition may decide who it is in our society becomes normally aggressive or becomes the length and an attrition at age one or mothers numbers that's important we're going to have a lot of pollution and toxicology because we're exposed to

all sorts of pollution on top and that may be deciding who gets diseases that passes a week on have a chronic disease subdivision tell the only reason i bring more talents a vision is that we are disappointed that we have to include it as a drug abuse upset at what i really urge on aunt everybody is that we we accept this is not merely a fair i think that's what every drug that the path of disappear i think a lot of these arguments will be what we ought to be doing urging young people not to concentrate on the heels of the charms of marijuana or lsd or other to be urging them to get out and get involved in the problems that plagued their society because the fact of the matter is that they get hung up on drugs and ignore those problems that they face now twenty years from now they just may not have a political side it's

been the point thank you dr lori your argument and people living on the doctor i want to ask you if you had experienced example in the drug scene yourself well i have not used marijuana because it would be obviously the critical from a few years young people not to use well i really what i have brought on top of young people have now is it makes you happy make you reset visit more if you're feeling togetherness they are not interested in that i accept that i'm interested in from the public health point you believe that if it does and it does feed it only won because i didn't i didn't accept the statement has do with the fact that it was legal for me

and this is a problem but i could get on that guy does the back from sweden dr zane i'm unbelievable epidemic that i outlined in my book that it's really and what is what's happening over there will be a previous use the proteins since i've been there they tell me it's exactly double clicks another major been a large problem well i am i came back and i didn't believe these digital effects was deliberate that pfizer says it was really like a very very large amount to berlin my mouth and they're right it was a highly stimulative yeah that's the only drug i think i i might just say i am an eye i don't first live on the needed a couple years now and a few words of update now on just you ebola public health world initially i should once

again urged the members of our audience too listen carefully to dr laurie when he speaks again pay him the respect to him as a distinguished visitor i feel that he is in many ways the most effective spokesman for his point of view and i think that it is very necessary that he appears at a symposium like this presents an alternate way of approach to that all point in the sermon this morning as those of you know went down to the services here in the past on some occasions the service is not pantomime it especially in terms of some of the happenings and dramatizations however mr suppose your feedback sessions we do have encounters discussions and present alternate points of view and i think that rap or learned to serve the real function by being here this morning and i think that even those of you in the audience disagree with him should be very pleased that he is here and is as effective as he is in preserving this position now also it seems to me that there is one common

ground between reverend been asked about too and this is the one area that i'm going to discuss briefly for a week move on both of these gentlemen are concerned with the area personal freedom has driven ask me this the main thrust of his arguments this morning in terms of personal says in making and dr orient express his auntie is about the possibility that drives could reduce personal freedom i do feel that this is perhaps the crux of this organ i personally am not interested and drugs per say i am interested in rob's in terms of what they do to the individual in terms of all the effect is achievement of human potential now with less alone and i might just briefly state my possession in regard to the outpost commonly was that these girls i think that in so far as marijuana is concerned the greatest danger of marijuana is the danger of getting arrested and the

danger of being prosecuted the current laws are worse than unfair they do allow crop pleased and krupp an attention seeking officials to arrest students and nine students disadvantage the professional light in order to obtain their personal and the misuse of marijuana is my concern to the abuse of power on the part of the plates of each of us only has a certain amount of energy to devote to this very complex problem i feel that young that my energy must be devoted to pointing out the inequality wall and the attempt to change the law in some way i think that there are certain practical alternatives to the present law that fall short of legalization but which would present a much better situation we have now i've just returned from our part of the country where i consult for an entire day with two faculty members and two students who have been arrested on charges of selling marijuana

now these gentlemen were completely innocent this is demonstrated by the fact that they have witnesses proving that they were elsewhere on the sale of place this is approved by the fact that the university has not fired them were dismissed because the university no was a ransom but in this case a parsi can corrupt local official decided to crack down on marijuana trumped by arresting the foremost far out members of the university community and charging them with a cell which of course carries a greater penalty in this particular area down possession know one of these individuals are to come to trial and the jury has convicted he is going to appeal the appeal will be heard in boston but in the meantime he is of course financially destitute and yellows suffered great loss of reputation and personal freedom and is instances like this which i think we are all the major concern now relatively minor abuse

that certainly happens in some cases that they grow up so i think that a marijuana usage our main effort should be devoted to changing the laws to reducing was wrong all to reducing last two felonies misdemeanors sb one thing one chamber the illinois legislature is already active on this and i think there are other useful alternatives could be introduced as you know there is a marijuana court case before the supreme court the present time the supreme court has heard the case their judgment is expected any day and that's possibly would strike down the entire nineteen thirty seven law if it does strike it down we have to be ready with alternatives things for congress to consider an viable means of handling this type of problem now in the area of lsd i think that the positive approach to this problem is to emphasize the need for more research as most of you know the programme of lsd research united states was cut down from seventy two investigators to a mere handful of investigators four years ago oh after the timothy leary

fiasco a harvard trained nationwide philosophy i think this is very unfortunate because it means that there is no legal or curious responsible people want to have the lsd experience now i think the longest line once again by getting into the chromosome controversy were doing a disservice not only to the fact that the the people who are taking lsd in control settings under clinical supervision the fact of the matter is that there's not one healthy person getting pharmaceutical lsd in a clinic that has been demonstrated to have a muscle damage not well how is true that rats have been part of chromosomal them but they also have the effect of offspring or give an aspirin it is true that if you put lsd in test tubes you will develop the sites that have them but you get the same thing with kathy nasty it is true that the black market users are shown to have chromosomal them but once

again these are people that take the black market lsd which is usually spike it means energy and arsenic and even heroin and one really doesn't know just what is causing them and also by the way most of the black market users in the us but the communities have viral infections of the virus can break from songs are better than just about any drop now what about the studies in which people in clinics are cast in terms of chromosomes before and after these shallow chromosomal damage there's been articles and science on this issue there as are also two research papers want to temple university where individuals have been given rather large doses of lsd healy the chromosomes and then tested weekly and alabama has been found then there's the university of minnesota medical school school study once again the pharmaceutical lsd healthy people who are have taken lsd no chromosome damage and file there and there is a third study which was published before the end of the year the most inclusive study out in which several dozen patients have been tested a psychiatric institute before during and

after lsd ingestion the pharmaceutical lsd and there's no chromosome damage in the street there i think that if we if we distort what the facts of the matter are we are scaring away people from going to the clinic where it is available to them the call it's the cycle roberts the narcotic addicts of people who are receiving help new legal clinics that still exist and were making them anxious about their treatment and i don't think this anxiety is justified now once again my contention is that in terms of pharmaceutical lsd legally administered in clinics there is not one piece that a healthy person who is taken lsd and who has chromosomal them in terms of literature and science nature lancet and a recent address to the society through a biological psychiatry now in terms of the problems we have a heroine i think that personal freedom a long bus line is once again very that are very badly of affected by the current laws and i think that the us department of

narcotics you're all their products now reorganized and renamed the euro for narcotics and dangerous drugs has gotten wind up on american democracy second only to the who klux klan the communist party and this is an institution that has gone nowhere whatsoever the little bit that it has done in terms of reducing narcotics in terms of the important united states is actually backfire because of narcotics are hard to get on the street the price goes up and people up robin's deal until even more divided congress i think here again our energies the money that is growing for these errands instead to the site of the treatment programs and prevention programs such as the april ram with methadone which i hope we'll hear more about in a knot which i support for several years and a program which most physicians and most politicians i've talked to are dead set against now in summary that i think that our emphasis should be on the positive i think of educational programs to work and young people are told the truth i have seen narcotics officers come by school colleges and give the youngsters

propaganda of course such educational programs will not work long westchester county on the other hand there was a very rational approach to the problem the loose nothing before the educational program came into existence there are there were nearly two hundred staffers who've been apprehended a year after there were five cases of instances if the facts are present and i think that the young people will respect the facts except of course for the minority who are self destructive and who are in other ways it accurately on balance i feel the education hasn't been given a chance because the people doing the education have a point of view to sell their propaganda using the facts and they're not addressing young people as intelligent human beings and so once again mike lee would be for positive approach for educational approaches and once again realizing that drug usage is the symptom also something else going on whether we get drugs by prescription or by the black

market expensive drug usage is the product of a sick society i think the money that is being poured into narcotics pleased to be better spent young the ghettos in the big cities in bolstering home and family life the pope it's both well i must say that i come here with none of the credentials and my experience is quite limited to be a heroin addiction treatment but i do have some thoughts about what the boycott and was saying concerning settlement and especially the problem of personal freedom that both up a lawyer when asked me for a ride that didn't worry about that he would emphasize is

that it's a secondary issue that we should director office of young people into involvements outside of crops but i think the emphasis of the laureate is on on repression and the kind of laws will affect the youth and encourage them not to respond to society of the war such as but one of the lawyers in the cities awesome with the kinds of laws that affect us during prohibition where alcohol is it became a tremendous about when traffic traffic while it is one one we have laws concerning top popping society really insignificant and don't really need the issues we find that we don't change the way the way people behave we do is we make law it

i think this is really what's happening with marijuana by emphasizing the laws and making invested we encourage people to experiment with remaining asian society those people who i've encountered have probably small three four five times most of the most of their inquisitiveness comes out of the fact that the issue has been made because the boys i'd like to talk about methadone as a treatment program for heroin take this as the field has it i think he's more of a problem that they use more problem in marijuana use heroin addiction affects perhaps a hundred thousand people in your

city and perhaps a million people throughout the country we don't know we don't have a real an accurate statistics on how many affected by but this is the area is again no a lot is likely to be innocuous a horrible because the users must resort to illegal methods to obtain it uses must have lit themselves they promulgated to use and whatnot what we as a society has done laws i just like that one paris is almost look

there've been no indices to say that the effects of heroin has any detrimental impact on body function on public the euphoria the soyuz nineteen eighty nine withdrawal symptoms from how it can be very very painful but the way to overcome that is by having a constant supply of parliament readily available to be used this then becomes the problem with strong makes the need to quiet of very very very intelligent man who's using helen steel burglarize so he can purchase so you can hop on the street the man was addicted to withdraw the man end and to assume that he does not want to stop generally is his

nephew where his predicament he would like to stop and to a draw which takes away distraught condor which was his need and can actually prevent him from feeling how to prevent this mortality treatment from being a major part of the handling of drug addiction in this time is to do a great disservice to the drug and we find that there are many roadblocks many obstacles many people who went through the law and through their lack of awareness of the problem free press this form of medication i'd like it's a little bit about some of my experience with a heroin addict and what it may have is experience through the use of management that it the metadata program has

personally about fifteen hundred patients and all lined up patiently its rockets at these patients we generally criminals using perhaps what and that they were involved in illicit activities perhaps celeste ng alleyways on the streets we're in jail perhaps ten to fifteen times were busted for selling these men the hot dry attic of comfort a methadone program and that's the truth to use wi fi on certain statistics about them which i think would be interesting to an activity is eighty five percent of employees

after two years the activists came on to the metadata program was on welfare is no longer runway and he's no longer using public funds he's employed a job searches wait is such is mechanics such as tv repairman is perhaps quite the college he's returned to music by profession he's perhaps only ten but these are our prize from what used to invite whose admission that perhaps perhaps at this point the issue that i am preventing the use of methadone treatment as an aged

mortality and heroin addiction is not too important because as time goes on people becoming aware of potential and yet we find in places like appointment on the news in many states there is a futile to acknowledge that method on pacific more value can be the most effective rehabilitation program rich i think its incumbent to speak it and to understand what the un doesn't how can operate legislators to change their attitude towards it the second thing about it except that perhaps state is president of doctor lilly a subsistence at developing its own that on the group's

president is not on this point are being used to take the attic got to speak to put him into a prison setting or hospital setting which is in essence the same simple solution the president made a movie addict as being imposed on and by treating st helena is truly innovative was state it's big i will and i will but i think if you have the opportunity of running

some questions for many of our guests kelly and i see we have another physician an hour presidents at fb please please please the law

you know it's bad

those two points such as i mean i do because i'm suggesting i'm i'm for expression because we want repression and a lot more to educate people against drugs than anybody else on the platform the yellow lights on doing so on for education are not rigorous and four layers in this vegetation because i think that they are absolutely necessary mr herzog well i have a family or is that art that we begin the opportunity we have the opportunity to talk to the family

and now that i've done her thought anybody was saying we do want the opportunity to say what we think i might save his own view of colorado radio show so was that well and politifact has gotten so what wallace broecker jihad under another law too it was three am i would like to i would like to use that the letter that i don't like to just briefly talk a bit about the cell as the chromosome that are i think it's unfair to imply that if someone really think of caffeine as far as it's absolutely true that if you get measles today you're likely to have a chromosomal breaks tomorrow that if you can get over the measles the chromosome rates will be

repaired uniform to attract authors true to that was war or measles is a producer that was useful now the us that uses of lsd you have had the events at the effect persisted for a lot of it ends up to seven years and they are there are things that have the defect i'll cross workers several years to these are persistent diametrically opposed to the facts right now i couldn't agree more that legitimate use of lsd that isn't a researcher julie it has to be better and i think they're the dosages control for one thing the writer joyce the birth control players' of crap is exposed other influences on what's so bad for young people we are probably going to have to separate out just what the chromosomal that its user is not i couldn't agree more that what we've seen primarily at what her sort of describe it's in the for user of bell i

think a family people allegedly the only palestinian at least they say this though it could be a political force it really all those who were overturned the street uses of lsd at the show that three out of the head all they did was seen before there were known to be a radio as they were the advantages fifteen or anything else the list was allegedly viewers realistic course of maybe and that officer i think that they are obligated as far as the indiscriminate use of lsd to make a very careful distinction of the point out if you want to point out that used in a situation i would absolutely agree with

over for example think of they think of what the fire and the concern about that i'm willing to accept your point that certainly if you can show chromosomal them and potentially anybody you've heard it well what we're talking about street view and when you can tell me what it is for your version uses of lsd at that house at the record and we can start to talk about that we need more research with carefully controlled study using healthy i think the answer is no the paper said that the ten percent that the potential for looking in the user is real and that we have to be very cautious about and i think the worst thing you could do

yeah absolutely we are very happy in heavy heavy user of known for that they say anything that so i don't want to go up there is let's not talk about iran sees that is tapping into let's talk about the disparity i think it's a very good point and it is the blood of the body the metadata program it's wrong to say that i oppose the daily i definitely used by the polls of support in a published article because i thought my name be used by another the

people too now i'm the chief advisor to the state program last year we gave them two million dollars that would be considered non support i think that or i mean that's a market valuation committee i know i think i think my favorite program that it is a very important point to make it as ridiculous to say to legislators or whether some of the city council want everybody given up with the raw loneliness and vinegar to make a public apology so everybody is saying hey carlos the jackal because this is not being interpreted to you directly at the things that are running in this report from the court who've won the object is to get out back on the street no no no

to you as well we know you know your mortgage on say to them sure i went to your program i think it's very important but if you take an active than on that longer rings there to check the body of the individual that was running what i'd like people to break into shorter pieces it is to a shorter was one menu then you've got all we like later this week the only to be rejected if your separate

us next month the two year wait to get into the program so that's a tremendously selected populations and rowley say is not without a methadone program we support it we think back of a lot different from doctors giving about to talk with them we have a better situation where drug use among young people increased six hundred percent in five years do you agree one small i don't really because i think that malaria is once again correct in his brief summary of the chromosomes studies but you see this is what i would call a selection of that he did not mention the studies have been done are pharmaceutical lsd so he is the one that's confusing this great use versus the pharmaceutical you scott now the paper that i delivered to the book on psychological association last year i reviewed the work of one of my colleagues where we studied twelve samples of street lsd this was supposedly the best street

lsd available in the haight ashbury during nineteen sixty six sixty seven not the wrong sample of the street lsd was thought to be pure lsd in fact some of the samples had to whether graham's the response that wandered fifty micrograms we did find anything that was pure we found the adulterated with many many injuries and so i don't think that we can legitimately say that straight lsd is pure lsd and once again this is not my main interest my main interest is the research programs that are ongoing and we just cannot neglect the fact that no heavy user of cafe has been found to have broken chromosomes no heavy user of aspirin has been found to have broken promise zones no sleep study to help the individual who takes pharmaceutical lsd as you've raised the local maybe that was never done it the pay

is oh oh he is using in the

peaks you're right oh yeah i do

he's wrong jesus all right ms

fischer that's what i said and you distort it was there when i rejected do with investing the hippies with the mantle of right now we're still you know he's speaking it is he

says and what i said was very clear i said that if you invest the hippie movement with nobody in at the moment or is that is that you say what we do is correct that we used to have that but i said nothing more nothing that i probably had not i said what you are doing you know no we didn't it's huge thank you

thank you now that's right it is they use the web you are you are you now in the state you know

that's right what is it chris by the way as dr

gloria as the projected and the white noise whenever he is that in the context of what happened in the sermons they may be skeptical three years mr martinez thank you ms bee

oh i did not think it was possible you know what i mean thank you there were the reprehensible place that needed cleaning up the position on the hospital pointed out after what effect nothing with them so much activity because that is the idea that you stop there

he is he's big

oh i think one of the ironic things is that figure doesn't answer your question about global on the proxy in terms of what our environment doesn't was working this or you don't get no similar conditions and the circumstances in which we are as a citizen and this is what i was looking for and it seems to me that this is not a process means a numbness and it seems to me that marshal cohen is absolutely right that perception that obama is marking this over and there is a loss of freedom and that we do not have any sensible alternatives to make up our own lines people are inhibited they are crushed they are they are in

state of you're awesome psychosis already been a problem at a grocer's becomes the norm and so it seems to me we should be a little worried about this happening which is sanctioned by side and i was straight and i was sanctioned and said yes this is the way we operate this is our system was the way this is this is so they thought and at the time it's long distance and this one is pretty and robson which a potential damaging an explosive ones contrary dr laurie is this massive my sermon really really insightful editing insane mixed bag of goods in balance the gas stations are important crucial and it wasn't clear the sermon i'm not pushing any particular drug and i'm all for making these distinctions this is what makes people more ought to be able to discriminate you know like i went to the end up to choose only one kind of evidence and present a

lease friends at the entire place and it's unfortunate we have in a sense a prosecutor and a defense atmosphere some victory here in trying to prove a case i don't think that leads to understanding i like that you are there is there is more here than meets the are and i don't know what the answer is to move from this point that my guests were some more questions i didn't interrupt for just one that i know that really has the least i personally feel that on two occasions he was unjustly attack and i want to congratulate him for bearing up and i want to compliment him for coming out of that expense to himself and sharing his way to be with us today it's been the point

oh yeah i know i do with it the debate i think oh meaning that we started out with the navy's us how that debate went with what they ought to do

in with my views were being attacked and you are usually the war the law the law it's b the wealthy hands back

where is europe it for a day it was bad no it's b

it is is it last week eighty nine this is a law this is baloney oh

yeah you're welcome you know all to the situation while are loyal thank you thank you

i don't know why now it oh really now it is

right now all right that law ms

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