This Land Is Your Land; 7; Michael Bergman

isn't is the continuing analysis and discussion others today's program is your host dr gerald stone welcome to this land is your land our guest today is michael bergman director of public relations department of sanitation city of new york were going to talk about the problems of solid waste disposal as you'll see there's more to it than collecting garbage in one place and dumping it were burning it in another and it also has to do with air pollution water pollution consumption packaging the gross national product and our whole standard of living welcomes the berkman center but the first set the stage for a discussion with a citation of a few

facts and figures which places a dimension i'm a solid waste disposal problem in nineteen seventy packaging waste alone amounted to some seventy four million times in the united states america is discarded virtually without reclamation about fifty billion cans and thirty billion bottles we also discarded hundred million auto tires reclaiming only thirty percent of them and the band into million automobiles another six and a half million or those ones up in junkyards and may not be required only about six percent of these are actually identified as being reprocessed on a per capita basis the daily generation of municipal waste as about five and a half pounds projections indicate that this will reach eighty pounds per day per person by nineteen eighty or more than three hundred and forty million tons per year by nineteen eighty it's expected that waste from all sources will amount to about five billion tons per year is a rodent

in new york it's estimated that we generate about twenty four thousand tons of waste every day and that this figure is increasing at a rate of four percent a year we've also been told of these figures represent a crisis was the so where prices is basically in the amount that figure is a known fact below for the one we've been using five to seven percent that's what we figure out now an interesting thing is that in the suburbs of figured approach to something between seven and nine percent those shows that there is not just doesn't have to do with the fact that we live in cities that were packed tightly together it also has to do with affluence answer them you don't have to deal with that more detail later certainly an important problem what a principal sources of waste products perhaps we can attempt to categorize the production of way sometimes well you know the main source of the waste we have to do

it is the packaging i think of the breakdown that has given by the american association of public works is that fifty percent of packaging of solid waste his paper and since very few people the paper it's mostly involved in the packaging that comes with the foods we eat there is a great deal of a solid waste that comes from our industrial sources but as far as what we have to dispose of its packaging no words it's not just the pure garbage that would create but the all the things that are food is wrapped in that our toys are wrapped in our clothing is reconcile and i gave it dealt with that i think the rest of it would fall over and let's talk about what happens to some of these waste products about which we spoke and some are simply fed into the environment of course summer collected and dumped and still others are collected and treated or recycled or processed in some way can we go into the details of some of this movement of waste products well the

collection process is basically are the same has been for thousands of years really when you look at it it's a material sampling problem and most people i think when they get right next to it for so many years to see this process being carried on and very traditional manner the man coming in thinking of the garbage can and doing it i doesn't realize that this is the same way the romans did it basically same way there they had their garbage removed and if if we really if we were to bring this up to our technological level say the automobile or even the space flight would be revolution but there were pretty much staying with the removal of the container or the acting of container which is a year garbage can and now we've moved into the area of plastic and paper bags this

is done by truck and at the other end of the process of disposal was carried out and two other very very traditional manners either dumping of burning of course we have someone refinements and we make it sanitary but basically year these three processes of the year pam collection and incineration and when selling oil three methods which we treat the refuge in new york let's get into the precise problems in new york and perhaps go into the details of collection trucking disposal and saunas it takes place in the city first word art collection is all solid waste collected by truck throughout the entire city what part of the household solid waste is collected by a collection trucks there are some other vehicles that to pick up other types of refuse that the sanitation had arms responsible but those drugs as well there's been what least one automated system developed in

new york got to believe it's in a housing project in coney island yes that's right and this is a federally financed housing project is going to be a year numerically run system in right inside the housing project that's going to carry or leave refuse from throughout the project to a central location to be collected the airports are and this is not going to the system at the present time but the hopes are that eventually this will be collect connected to a waterfront disposal system so that it goes right into a sale waiting barge at the edge of the water down there and it's helped so happens that the systems this housing project is rendered the water another group or an advance was the co ops at the way they put in there they put in compact years even that is a great help but analysts and they still put the garbage out and cancer are they still do it is and it isn't finished yet and then they all contacted and from there doesn't go into a truck yes it we're going to a specialized trump they'll be able to

pick up the compact and reviews of the very very large brick and where does the yacht waste goes directly from the truck to the yard dumping siren to the incinerator side well that's the thing is now in the rose ceremonies to talk about this part of the operation the incinerators receive the refuse directly from the truck bay ah the trucks dump into large bins in the incinerator and the garbage is picked up by cranes and fit into the furnace is however our landfill operations of two types we have the truck fuel and the marine phil how the truck is is the delivery of the garbage right on to the what we call it active bank of the landfill where they bowled bulldozers are working leveling out the garbage truck just comes in and dumps its load and then returned to the street are however be a marine operation

which takes care about a third of our garbage in the city of disposal is operated by barge where we call marine transfer stations the hair truck drives onto a platform and and his coverage into a into a barge below the sort of around six hundred tons of garbage then the barge is a toad sometimes in groups of three or four naked most economical out to the landfill its and staten island fresh kills largest landfill site in the world and that's where it's set taken out of the barges put onto a two car at the wagons as we call them the triple by bulldozers are taken out of the active bank there that over and the garbage says ammo out and the landfill crisis continues as it today as it would in in a truck so you have a leveling

spraying recovering with a clean filtered were these marine transfer the tone ok this they're all over the city that we have where we have thirteen of them they're all over the city and there's are the ones in there manhattan or a term the year at cannes fourth street on the head on the hudson river and it turn fifty nine street on the east river and we have another one hundred and thirty fifth street in the north river that are all over the city and one about the incinerators can you mention some of the locations of all incinerators are up see you have the one in manhattan we have against four straight incentive to manhattan side seventy third street and cigarettes around the east river we have the southwest brooklyn incinerator out on the west side of brooklyn

they based before he first read and end the river valley have been won over a green point we have one governor found an avenue in brooklyn we have one at that seven you in queens it's were sent to repair shop is a very new incinerators and construction are being considered well there are yes there are to get our guests and peru and the design stage one scheduled for brooklyn the brooklyn navy yard that's the farthest along another one that we planned to build in the bronx the year they're also are plans for two more and one in queens and one on staten island but these are so far back into the dimmest aaron reserves of the planning stages not really germane to really is always discussion well you mentioned the landfill sites on staten

island and other other landfill sites in the city yes other's talent a landfill and i get caught in the browsers found their new landfill and brooklyn there are several smaller landfills engineer northern part of queens iowa while the only accepts construction waste and brookfield on staten island other any plans for an addition onto areas are no this is very difficult i don't think that there will be any new areas so that forced landfills are concerned there are many problems with them of course the first was to space land is so precious within the city another one has been the problem of what we call leaching the if a landfill is located near a body of water the water that comes in with the rest of food comes in with the garbage is

oftentimes set down by some sort of capillary action by the the ground water and mixes with and eventually pollutes the surrounding waters of the state environmental people and we dance group have have stated it the unique do landfills should become have to be dry land fills and who is the water will have to be drained off i will have to be treated before being put back into a surrounding body of water course this drives the price on landfill up quite high to set up a secondary plant to landfilling is new premium prices now even though it's a very a very old one in four here is concerned we have the word sanitary landfill what does that mean how to differentiate from the final one for well plan or landfills just heard me in the garbage is dumped this review whether donkeys and there's no treatment of the refuge at all

unsanitary landfills is it really implies that the garbage is being treated and set in as far as the new year treat the garbage in new york city i means it's leveled off it's the active bank where the wrong garbage is broaden his get down to a limited area you know i had to keep themselves and to keep the area which we you know we wouldn't be here we would have rodents keep debt down to at a minimum it is a disinfectant and according to the year regulations set down by the state environmental tortillas covered with a a given layer of clean fields we caught or does the queen will come from well a lot of this now is the incinerator is it you it's been as the ash comes out of the year

an incinerator it's highly america as well as sir after that comes out of the excavation of that when we can get yes and does new york city a practice ocean dumping all know there hasn't been ocean dumping says nineteen thirty four it that i think people see our barges going down the river and they fear and as a sanitation environment thrown a lot of garbage in the ocean and i yeah i hope that a lot of people assume that this section of the program because i like the clue that are scrambling a thing that a new jersey still those ocean dumping the corps of engineers don't some of a dredge materials and well the water polo the water treatment plant to dump sludge that still goes on today on this land is your land we're talking with michael bergman director public

relations of the department of sanitation city new york we're talking about solid waste disposal can you describe the yacht incineration process our world what's done and then also with some incinerator ways we talked about the use of it in noun in the law and phil senator landrieu operation other abuses for incinerator was also about their own separate your yard center eight years of horror our a gravity fed that it but jason forbes crime in the incinerator prices there a crane picks up garbage trucks case at the top of the incinerator puts it into a one of the year one of the years finals leading down to the finest it's operating the garbage then moves on to a great big moves a scribe rate of speed that can be altered of course you other and painting a wartime injury and now when it is we needed to burn longer accept or

the garbage is agitated by hand this is really some cite to go into the incinerator unsealed we call stationary fireman with those long long parker's thinking of this idea of the furnace moving me a garbage over and over to make sure that to really get a clean bird from that it burns at a temperature of about eighteen hundred degrees fahrenheit and some of our locations by the way we do use this too to heed the book the incinerator building in nearby structures and vienna and sent the the garbage as the campaign that incinerated are falls off the end of the great at the end of the burning period and down onto a another conveyor

system if the image is there is it only the garbage itself it's burning or is there some fuel added know this increased temperatures and there's no fuel and all the tone of the garbage have the what is left as far as solid material then is what we call residue we get about a twelve to eighteen percent a residual from the garbage jimmy of course the gas and with the particulate matter is she would save the smoke goes into a system of baffled chambers and most of the hair incinerators are this sort of knocks the solemn particles down and cause the gases off before they are released into the smokestacks were kind of air pollution problems recession consumers well there's no doubt about it there is syria and this air pollution problem are we have of course get enough hot gases into the atmosphere there is sir particulate matter

i haven't given up given offered no intent as healthy as well as the fact that it just this is something that the environmental protections creations are on the one hand is trying to get rid of citywide and that's why we've heard concentrate in on a program of upgrading these incinerators are there is a way of beating the air pollution problem i we believe so we have two major methods of air pollution control are now being tested and they're reaching the end of the testing one is the logistics a dictator that's basically works by static electricity as the gas passes by two electrically charged plates the particles are drawn off another system is the what we call a wet scrubber and basically the gas is fed into moving stream of water and the so

the particles are spun off just like in a centrifuge both of these are really working well as far as i know preliminary planetary figures show we haven't completed the full testing all very fine equipment everything but we show that that these are ninety five to ninety eight percent effective and that certainly is well above what the standards how the standards have been set by the state environmental people well we've discussed to process he's for solid waste disposal one is landfill was an uncertain still in the other's incineration of are these gases he's presently new york adequate for him and all of the garbage slow that we have and all the solid waste low that we're going to have in the future that's raging with our own agency i would have to say that

they over the long pull i don't think these two methods are but the technology which we would like to take a civil wrongful isn't here yet of course the low level situation is as i describe were just running out of ground house and we actually run out of that we yes we have we have figured that by nineteen seventy five the landfill acreage that the department of sanitation has right now will be exhausted and that is that the present elevations that we have now <unk> talk about getting there additional allegations on now for skills that mount making skills and so it's right that that scenario to the process too because that's their purchase a solar cells and funny ways but so we try to get an extension in the idea of pelham

bay in the bronx that facility is as a president is going to be filled next october it would have been filled last month except for the fact that we are restricted dumping their only to the household rubbish household refuse and its commercial equivalent from restaurants sector in a less food and package construction known and construction things like that and then of course the hair incinerated incineration process still gives off i guess it's it's very expensive to control the pollution and i think if you're considering a long pole and you're taking it a total environmental view which has been one of the reasons why epa the environmental protection administration was meant to include the sanitation department we just

have to close up the system we have an open systems for your resources go and that it is a tremendous strain on our environment and i think that even if the proms a veritable pollution can be country over the long run it doesn't do our environment and he did well from our discussions this point made amply clear that were running out of landfills sides accepted unusually high cost and incineration poses series air pollution problems the alternatives remaining appear to be recycling an unusually high degree of compassion which employs getting much more waste into a small space or some deficient a non polluting destruction process we talk about the potential for each of these are any any other new methods of a voice control and find out if there's any research going on in these areas let me ask first is the burden of newark city is planning or doing research to was more efficient environmentally cleaner solid waste disposal well of course i've been

described the year the programs are going on to clean up the yep that air pollution from our incinerators this whole question of the environment isn't is really very young ones as far as our society leading into it but with both feet and we are presently at trying to get get ourselves or units new systems explain we have we're using systems that are thousands of years old and the orientation of the environmental protection administration and the sanitation department is switching toward new systems however the technology is slow and telling them arrive day was only what about nine months ago so i we're still we're trying to find people to help companies and use force but her and meanwhile we have two more words go

ahead with some of the older systems like the incinerators i told you that were on the drawing board because we cannot just wait for this technology use new technology to come along and aunts all our problems for sweet we have still have twenty four thousand tons of garbage a day going up and sitting in an ethnic division fort but the mood is definite as definite change in a very short time to review systems systems on the well as far as the near future some of the processes that were looking for an even now are trying to get money for prototypes on more varied we have one system that is an honest perasa it's a monsanto is working with it with us on this as basically gassed distillation process the material is burning in the absence of oxygen with guns a review

the v gases that come from those prices are burned in an afterburner and completely burned the biggest by product is pure carbon there's no gases whisper not get as waste we had pure carbon which has a great deal of potential abuses of filtering medium in the water pollution plants the course there is the problem and they're using their wings and refuel that oil or gas and that now must be dealt with there is also love and the method of slag incineration and we yet what we get is seo a very very thorough burn and i'd say yeah it's like a blast furnace pa where we can reuse and an auxiliary fuel and we've been in a very very high heat our what comes out of this is saying survey a molten substance that when

added to water of becomes like glass npr the applications for this year's gravel or cement component or something like that now we also thinking about impacting our however our there's a great deal of debate and whether the money is spent on combating before to select few phil's would not be spent there on some other method because the cost of handling the compact refuse the extra handling process through does not justify the savings of maybe forty fifty percent and the landfills are others also composting know which uses nasr a few at you what you're basically doing is dumping the refuse into a tank of water and letting a decomposed erratically and what you get is it it's a

virtually and course you drain the water off after it's entirely on the composer let the bacteria they do the work the water temperature gets up to about a hundred and fifty years from the action of this bacteria i dried off the water which again is a very very inert fine organics substance of american parents on the stryker some sort of sawdust is there some years for the substance well we're still they're still it's time you will find something for this of course the there is application as far as fertilizer but we can only use so much of this it is hoped that this can be made into rick smith says he's very alert it might be able to be dumped and when i stand in the ocean below i were very wary of doing anything like that until we've checked out of consequence will come back to this problem in a moment but let's pause for station identification

today on this land is your land we're talking to michael berman director of public relations for the department of sanitation city of new york we're talking about solid waste disposal suburban we were talking about new methods of solid waste disposal and what things are possible for the future let me ask you about the compact the machines that are for sale at the moment in department stores and samantha for home use as i understand it these machines compact home garbage into a plastic container and in that plastic containers of deodorize concealed and you sort of pass a little christmas package onto our sanitation these i assume would be use the sanitary

landfill sometimes that right a lot a larger version of that talking about yes oh yes it's right at that would have the application would be mostly to extend the life of the landfill by compact in the direct use are these early decompose a bull in these plastic packages or they just last forever sitting there as packages back at the year in the country legally the process of bio dig deep division goes on to just ten when the year the packages close we don't know but it does go on to csc at the landfills or coarseness to ferment for many many years so that we would wind up with a decomposed landfill that with these pieces of plastic into maxwell yeah that was certainly the great along with it so you're not talking about a homework contacted gotten a very very large

contract that would that we would use and it i don't even think that we would we would that we would rather wrap it up we just help us to or use the land space more decision among the masses that you mentioned which you feel the most promising notes on the kindle oh it's only a paralysis looks good it has a year of very very efficient burn although it's it's really not incineration process although there is the problem of the auxiliary fueling time you're burning guess royal you have to you have to take care of the apple looting over again off and then also composting although the year it uses of the byproducts are still kind of elusive on that one eye i still would stick with a year a recycling program liam soccer matters so it hasn't done that was the technology was there it was

it's very funny i think this is an example that might help illustrate how rudimentary technology is enough a few months ago a man walked in office no crime in lebanon mean even when i'm singing that owes its was so pale a pretty big project that he was going to push me on him was from the globalized corporations that's a wonderful name describes the product right there isn't as new as a comic a gentleman from the midwest very midwestern it into my office and i had told me about this process that his company had perfected and that they were willing to they plant a power plant to show us that they can handle the refuse of the city of new york the disposal of our refuse and are they would ask of course is the

year that it is the right to reclaim the year materials to handle twenty four thousand tons as representative those small plant first and then he became an ask is can you guarantee me fifteen hundred tons a day of course yeah i mean that's it we have very generous supply you're everything a guy walking up the street into you know the planet is it was almost like a year a medicine show are saying no because gucci people are really compelling and set around to try to figure out some sort of system that kid really can operate at in a year for recycling program for a city like this is the first problem is a separation yeah of course separation at the you know we call it the consumer and is very difficult

because i think consumers at this point in time i don't like to do that i don't know whether it's been enough time or we've got will too lazy you know they have the system of sorting system in los angeles very big city corps of quite recently in the public voted out ahead separate compartments on the trucks there and each homeowner had to wrestle so many suburban towns in new york in the new york area in which a bleak require that they won't pick up next garbage it has to be sort of your last and one can in your cans and another in your go with garbage and third that's right you know it would be impractical as opposed to new york to make a requirement to have to buy a whole flu shots because of the people separate we couldn't keep it separated unless we make made two runs another truck would just truck with one hopper they have the glass family and the metal and then another one coming by for the way we're

employing them that we're looking for technology which would do that separation in some automatic way that's true that's we rescue workers would like to have i mean it was like i said we started i think is so incredibly primitive it should be really are highly mechanized process mean if you think about all the mechanization goes into detecting the resources are extracting their resources transporting the resources pretty good going it goes into production a law that goes into design it goes into marketing that goes into selling and that fema get to the final step on the you are sort of the resource cycle ari israel opens on a site on the resource stream you have virtually nothing being spent in the area disposal so it really does require an

investment and it's not just the sanitation problem because stop stuff separate it beautifully we still have decimated because the city is not in the in the east or in the resource business is not in the business of melting down imminently has resigned to limit competition is that would have to be a method for disposing of the recycled materials is true at the spring up hopefully it will i mean ingenuity of american business in the year and the year a desire for it to make a profit probably will bring this about but isn't there now chicken in the ad you know well maybe that has come about because there are it's not profitable yet to see a right down and the technology has to develop a system which would be provided minister sergei says that of roses is just like that in in the newspaper and recycled newspaper and of the of the recycling business and has been going on for quite

a while i mean i was a kid we used to have these newspaper drives by end of the year there are companies that detainees newspapers and hold them and sell them back to the companies that make musically and the comet is made nice people but aren't appalled that will be supplied to them you know because they don't care what you know what they do with this pope comes from it comes from an old newspaper a new tree those matters to raise good newsprint but the companies are just waiting companies to reprocess are just waiting for this environmental the environmental science to catch on in the environmental a spirit to catch on until it got government will gear up in the public to gear up to make a real steady source of the old newspapers for and then i'm reading and i believe that and then they have contingency plans plans but they don't have any plants are under construction right now so it's it's a very big problem is that have to make an investment is one

seconds the government is the government federal government and industry it's who told npr new york the sunday times in particular that create a tremendous garbage lot on monday morning here is a very big prom like i can search site to figure out we don't have a year it's over a reprise know believe him not the one in the sanitation magazine out how exactly how much it it weighs you know for us to just a normal refuse i know it takes ten thousand trees to protect the innocent sunday times mess and of course that's a lot of tall wade telephone books to you we have five mac know i came from we had one knows even the job let's turn to some of the political problems involved you tell us in detail about the structure

sized operation and budget of the sanitation department well the head the sanitation problem is divided into two basic are complements cleaning collection and no waste disposal cleaning collection course is possible for a collection of the garbage cleaning up the streets making a bold refuse clearing snow the budget for cleaning collection disposal operations this includes the snow and ice removal for this last fiscal year was over a hundred and seventy million dollars and of course it's going up all the time we have fifteen thousand little over fifteen thousand employees in the air and former sanitation and beyond the number of salmon or we once sanitation men it's the year as the house term for it

is out of eleven thousand three hundred now we have a very very well paid sanitation force here temptation man starts at eight thousand two hundred thirty one dollars after three years she gets nine thousand and seventy one dollars and two thousand or in a year fringe benefits so that's about twelve thousand dollars a year or less and of course that's a yeah that's one of the year i'd say is it's on the conference expenses it's really at a skilled professionals forces wages go some problem finding a new commissioner and epa administrator craig are served as acting commissioner for quite a while now and as there are shortages able administrator since fielders the job politically not viable it is administered all was hard to find this is is really a year a difficult job to fill there's no doubt about it

the management sanitation department has to be a very aggressive a very violent person himself i mean this is a party that cannot abide a year all week commissioner jerry question happens to be a barrier of forceful individual in a very forthright and vigilant i think he's done a great job always been there the year of the department i think unless a good strong leadership doesn't really perform as well as it could and that's really the truth in a time when it gets really running on all cylinders it did say today it really good thing to see the yeah the sanitation commissioner however is in the service uber agency structure and will the i think be under the direction that super agency so on the one hand we have a tremendous amount of pressure from the department for a strong leader and

and and by the way i mean the guys in that job one week and everyone in the department knows as sized him up already it's a very sensitive spot that hand on the other hand though they are strong politically where individual will have to go back to take a lot of third dictates from the year the super eight s c above course is involved and of course yes one of the strongest unions i guess in the east coast that puts pressure on the man there's great deal of public pressure that of course oil comes through the mayor and the super agency head but the sanitation commissioner especially if he's forceful and savvy and has been around so not immune either we still looking for new committees were still looking for today and this land is your land we're

talking with michael berman director of public relations for the department of sanitation city new york we're talking about solid waste disposal another question that i had is in a sense a political question it's also partly technical but there are three interesting landfill proposals that were afforded in recent years one was to fill a jamaican day the second was to fill the strip mine to the other side region of pennsylvania the third was to carry garbage on trains to a landfill site in albany county or three in that rigid political resistance maybe intel's little bit about the comet because this that the scheme for jamaica bay are i really don't think that was proposed a great time when this concern about the toll environment was at four in other words question was we just got into this garbage i think a year a message like that is pretty much of a question now of ecological effects just

too too harmful as far as we know and of course there is one of the few places to these leftist killed as a viable of mixed environment and there's really appreciated by many people around and many other people in the city now via the question of tracking more or hearing coverage over rails to split up points outside of the city has been considered but i really haven't heard too much about it was i had been in the department of course that instance pretty much interest that came in there in the middle of may cause there's a great huge expanse and forth and as well as the fact that a lot of people object to have a garbage empty move through their communities really somebody elses garbage man that's right yes well one of the problems there of course is that the landfill site

both in albany county and in the episode region of pennsylvania controlled by private landfill intricate landfill interests and private garbage collectors then they in a sense new york city would be competing with them and i love most of new york city's landfills as i guess all of your lips it is one to assess prisoner owned by the city and we collect thirteen thousand tons a day our own private courting companies collect the other eleven or twelve thousand times a day and they say you're doubling the assistance news what are the possibilities for decreasing solid waste at the source a supply serious changes in packaging or decrease in consumption forced by taxes for example of the costs of disposal or apply to the cost of a product we might see a change in consumption or alternately we might have some money available for research or new incineration points what you think is the future of this kind of thinking thoughts are with the consumption problem then talk about possible

changes to pack well i think this is a year or a very positive direction for solid waste to go it's very difficult of course and this is of course been will lose what the thrust of be a new legislation ne yo and environmental protection administration is looking for and they're the subject of this a public debate that we started about packaging and consumption i don't i don't know at what point the consumer begins to change the lifestyle and his consuming habits and begins to demand it the ecological consequences of the packages that he's given to get taken into account by the manufacturer or snow are many people that are of very aware of this than

others it's that and still enjoy can each of the islets packaging that i guess it's a kind of a luxury nevada marshall of way system of the environmental location ministrations done is to go after both sides of the question the manufacturing and in the consuming end consumer basically need something in this point in time is lazy during the war i think i was i was around then but i'd heard that people were really very conscientious about saving materials and in conserving on on what was available juliet the first part of this program of course is the is the packaging tax what this does is built right into the packaging material the price of flood disposing of course geared to the difficulty of disposing of that particular type of packaging and

this is based on studies that have been done by a judo you for many many years is a somewhat a biodegradable package would be exempt would be exempt or at least would would degrees you receive them it's negligible cut the family in their plastic package it would be a sense of very very highly taxed that's right of course the many many years things were trying to do here we're trying to not only decrease the kind of very very offensive packaging that we get but trying to stimulate to try to get money that would be used for research well i mean there are there are as if you really just walking through a supermarket there is him rene where this season is really racetrack in seven years awhile i like any brand names are you have for commercial sponsors well there's

this little tiny packages of love of free drinks i know that i like to drink tropicana in the interim accord containers but they have these little train them into the three outstanding i mean that much audie a six individually package affect the morton salt shakers by six individually pack his toolbox yet both brutally indestructible plastic that each one of these has kept by for oil then to have them all together on the bottom of course is eight is a piece of cardboard and the whole thing is wrapped up in clear plastic i think this is really absurd and i think it is it would be yeah i wouldn't take that much more effort to our open up the court in a drink from the director like i enjoy doing and

putting them nearly ninety one into a glass maybe it's just one for the for the kids and the kids like to you know individually package that makes them i did when i was a salesman that is i think that it's i mean i think it's a luxury of considering the end of the yeast they were and there's his throat lozenges that come in a box and then our car package i think six to a quick would be called bluster card and this little plastic blisters and yet to push so from the top down to get the little lozenge out this is a huge is rapid for well i assume it's incredible it's incredible wastage i think that's really over fracking is to resume this is the kind of thing that the tax is going to be addressed to the other side is there's the consumer's side they were offering a bounty or there's a deposit and then a bounty

on me out on the container which can either be reused recycled of course those are two different things or use me use the container units when the form which you purchased it doesn't change i don't despise about how does it work where i had the test the device would be paid upon purchase and the balance sheet would be paid either by the retailer or by a redemption center and this is again at one of the of the gifts i've always been a catholic conservative in the program and that we need media industry will have to respond by her realizing that there is and again money and scrap materials and to use a very loose word for the entire recycling reuse system op and have a set of redemption centers and we have this whole new series of the men taking in the year the

materials and feeding them again as a source of income back to be a bump they mature processors are really they're really as the containers or we made a good painters something about a bounty on automobiles and that's a solid waste disposal problem too is an abandoned car yes i happened to america where everything planned an area we have up very viable system and going as far as scrap metal band the cars we have a year and newer car crusher it's sort of premise of james bond returns the current little to voting to buy three foot out have done brooklyn had panels about for fifty cars a day and this is one company is selling its smell to pittsburgh and japan are so out where is it that may become necessary as the year the number of abandoned cars i

left around the city streets increases by the way it's increased over two hundred percent in the last two years we picked up seventy two thousand nine hundred cars this last year and we're already going in a raid over ninety thousand that's because we are woven into the two weeks where the projected is continuous savanna positively frail as i understand that they are when you register used car you have to pay fifty dollars dollars to register it and that money would be held in escrow until such time as you can either take the car to redemption centers sold to someone else a new car you would deposit hundred dolls in the sky and then you see that money back so the government has proposed are where the city world for me from the epa on this and i don't know it'll be part of the new of the new legislation or not and when we talk about costs we come to the point of industrial waste and its relationship to the cost of the whole services new york

have some kind of a tax on industrial waste years have picked up along with everyone else's and pay for additional tax revenues a kind of cost sharing as there isn't waste water treatment talking about construction waste that other industrial sites of commercial sites rather than apartment buildings and oh yeah of course services although by the private carbon via the private concerns such as hotels and restaurants are or service by private car men and they pay us to give a great great to the size of the truck they have the demolition construction and demolition waste is also picked up by private car and there are many this is a lot of acting quite an advanced system and destruction construction and demolition

surrounding these are the container field so you see these big metal container sitting on the street and that that really is the body and the year this containers paul rudd upon to the truck and taken to a landfill and they play us a flat rate i don't know was it this or at the beginning of the year of this of the job and i think they don't really from around but it's all done privately well i'm afraid you have to break now our time is up and given much mr bergman you've given us a good deal of insight into the problems of solid waste disposal and pretty your comment today on this land is your land we've been talking with michael berman director of public relations for the department's sanitation in the city of new york you've been listening to

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