Public Education: Sizing Up the System

<v Kent Manahan>"How is my child doing in school?" If you're a parent, you've asked that question many <v Kent Manahan>times. Often the answer you get has something to do with test scores. <v Kent Manahan>They play an important role not only as a measure of progress, but in setting curriculum, <v Kent Manahan>too. Tonight, producer Janice Selinger and I begin a series of special reports: <v Kent Manahan>"Public Education: Sizing Up the System" with a look at some of the changing <v Kent Manahan>views among educators on what and how well our children are learning. <v Woman>We are hoping to instill in our children a love of learning. <v Man>We've got to focus on, uh, reasoning skills, deductive skills, influential <v Man>skills, thinking skills. <v Man 2>They have to be able to take a thought, an issue, and have a beginning, <v Man 2>a middle, and an ending in the area of writing. <v Kent Manahan>Those are some of the goals, but there are differing views among educators on how to <v Kent Manahan>achieve them. Many believe there is too much emphasis on basic skills today, <v Kent Manahan>such as times tables and declension of verbs, and not enough stress on teaching a <v Kent Manahan>youngster to think. <v Kent Manahan>Educators are beginning to realize the need to teach a higher level of basic skills <v Kent Manahan>to help develop a child's critical thinking ability so that students can draw inferences

<v Kent Manahan>and conclusions, for example, after reading a passage from a book. <v Kent Manahan>But that means a lot more demands on teachers. <v Kent Manahan>Until 1982, minimum basic skills tests were given to New Jersey youngsters in the <v Kent Manahan>3rd, 6th, 9th, and 11th grades. <v Kent Manahan>The skills measured in those tests helped determine the curriculum or course of study for <v Kent Manahan>students. Over the years, an average of more than 90 percent of the students who took the <v Kent Manahan>test passed. Education Commissioner Dr. Saul Cooperman says the <v Kent Manahan>tests were no longer a challenge, and the need for a change was clear. <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>Employers were telling me that the children couldn't write and think, uh, and do <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>mathematics. And my reading of corporate literature is sometimes <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>75 percent of the corporations are giving basic skills, uh, <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>instruction in the corporations. <v Kent Manahan>Until this year, students in New Jersey were only required to pass a 9th grade minimum <v Kent Manahan>basic skills test in order to graduate from high school. <v Kent Manahan>Now they must pass a more rigorous high school proficiency test before graduation, <v Kent Manahan>but it's still a 9th grade test.

<v Dr. Saul Cooperman>That's a paradox to say, "How can we-how can we give a 9th grade skill <v Dr. Saul Cooperman>test?" <v Kent Manahan>to a 12th grader? <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>That's right. <v Kent Manahan>And call them a high school graduate. <v Kent Manahan>How can we? <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>Well, in the 9th grade, if someone fails that test, the <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>logic is that they should have several more times to pass <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>that test, and this was upheld by the legislature in 1978. <v Kent Manahan>Despite strong opposition, Cooperman would eventually like to see the tests change to an <v Kent Manahan>11th grade skills level. <v Kent Manahan>The new high school proficiency test goes beyond drill and practice learning. <v Kent Manahan>Dr. Joel Bloom, assistant commissioner in charge of testing at the State Department of <v Kent Manahan>Education, explains how the old basic skills test merely asked a student to find, <v Kent Manahan>for example, the area of a rectangle in a single process. <v Kent Manahan>The new test demands more. <v Dr. Joel Bloom; Department of Education>We ask them to problem solve. <v Dr. Joel Bloom; Department of Education>They have to take the ro- that figure that may be made up of <v Dr. Joel Bloom; Department of Education>multiple areas and break it down into squares or rectangles, <v Dr. Joel Bloom; Department of Education>and then apply the formula, and then add up the results.

<v Kent Manahan>It's believed the new test will eventually help students improve their SAT scores. <v Kent Manahan>But right now, seniors like Brooke Abbot and Nadene Smith of Summit High School say <v Kent Manahan>they didn't anticipate the pressure. <v Brook Abbot>The hardest thing about taking SATs for me was when I was sitting in that room <v Brook Abbot>with everybody around me. Everybody's scribbling down all these answers. <v Brook Abbot>I was just thinking that this is my ticket to school. <v Kent Manahan>64,000 New Jersey high school students who took the Scholastic Aptitude Test <v Kent Manahan>required for college admission raised their scores an average 13 points last <v Kent Manahan>year, but the state still ranks 43rd in the national average in math <v Kent Manahan>and verbal skills. Only Florida, Texas, Hawaii, Indiana, Georgia, <v Kent Manahan>North and South Carolina rank lower. <v Kent Manahan>That troubles Dr. Cooperman, but he says it means more opportunity for more students. <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>Because we give the SAT, uh, to 2 out of every 3 <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>of our children, and because of the composition of the state, we do poorly. <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>It's a reflection, ah, to a large degree of our less advantaged schools.

<v Kent Manahan>If I asked you to rate our education system and I gave you a choice of very good, <v Kent Manahan>good, in need of minor adjustment, or poor in need of major overhaul, <v Kent Manahan>what would you choose? <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>I wouldn't accept your first choice but I- it'd probably closer to the second, uh, but <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>I think there are many areas we are in reasonably good shape, uh, but <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>there's much, much work to be done. <v Kent Manahan>Now we'd like to hear from you. If you could change one aspect of the education system <v Kent Manahan>to help make it better, would it be teachers, curriculum, or administrators? <v Kent Manahan>You can let us know by calling these 900 numbers, and at the end of the week we'll <v Kent Manahan>get- let you know the results of our poll. <v Kent Manahan>Dial 1-900-220-2111 for teachers, <v Kent Manahan>1-900-220-2122 for curriculum, or <v Kent Manahan>1-900-220-2133 to vote for a change <v Kent Manahan>in administrators. Each call will cost you 50 cents.

<v Kent Manahan>Those numbers will be repeated at the end of this program. <v Kent Manahan>Tomorrow night, we'll examine the quality of teachers in New Jersey schools. <v Speaker>[End of Part 1] <v Kent Manahan>"Only the best teacher will do for my child." That's what every parent wants, but <v Kent Manahan>is it a realistic expectation? <v Kent Manahan>Tonight, in part 2 of "Public Education: Sizing Up the System." Producer Janice Selinger <v Kent Manahan>and I examined the quality of New Jersey's teachers. <v Kent Manahan>Are they at the top or the bottom of the class? <v Kent Manahan>[Teacher teaching in the background] There are 80,000 teachers in New Jersey's <v Kent Manahan>classrooms. Each is required to have a teaching certificate. <v Kent Manahan>But are the best high school graduates entering the state's collegiate education <v Kent Manahan>programs? <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>Unfortunately, the students who are electing to go into teacher education <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>tend to come from, uh, the lowest achievement levels in the high school graduating <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>class. As the very best students are going into the sciences and going to pre-med, <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>going into business, into professional areas.

<v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>Problem is, we're not able to attract the students we would like to teach our children. <v Kent Manahan>Why not? Why haven't we been more successful? <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>Don't treat them as professionals. We don't pay them as professionals. <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>We don't educate them as professionals. <v Kent Manahan>[Mannix teaches in the background] Mary Ellen Mannix considers herself to be a <v Kent Manahan>professional. She's been a media specialist in Elizabeth for 14 years. <v Kent Manahan>Ms. Mannix and many other teachers resent criticism that their profession doesn't attract <v Kent Manahan>the best and the brightest. <v Kaaren Patterson; Elizabeth Teacher>In teaching, if you are an average, not an average because that's positive, but a <v Kaaren Patterson; Elizabeth Teacher>mediocre person, um, it becomes very obvious in your classroom. <v Kaaren Patterson; Elizabeth Teacher>You're dealing in-in-in an, ah, area that's- that demands far more. <v Kaaren Patterson; Elizabeth Teacher>Ah, in a corporation, there are many mediocre positions <v Kaaren Patterson; Elizabeth Teacher>that you can fill and do a very adequate job. <v Kent Manahan>Most teachers in New Jersey graduate from state colleges. <v Kent Manahan>At Jersey City State, about half of the students who enroll require academic remedial <v Kent Manahan>work. Two years ago, the college began requiring education majors to maintain <v Kent Manahan>a 2.5 average.

<v Kent Manahan>These seniors described themselves as average students. <v Kent Manahan>They think that can be an advantage when they go out to teach. <v Sharon Boellmann; Student at Jersey City State>You can see where the student's coming from. I mean, the top of the class student, maybe <v Sharon Boellmann; Student at Jersey City State>they did have some struggles in that, but usually they don't. <v Sharon Boellmann; Student at Jersey City State>It usually just comes very easy to them. You get a child in the classroom that is an <v Sharon Boellmann; Student at Jersey City State>average student and you were, you can relate and see where they're coming from. <v Bobbi Adams; Student at Jersey City State>If I'm working with children from the city, I'm from the city, too. <v Bobbi Adams; Student at Jersey City State>So, if they're not doing too good in certain things, I could understand why. <v Kent Manahan>We spoke with one of your students here at Jersey City State, and in answering her <v Kent Manahan>question, she said to us that children don't perform too good. <v Kent Manahan>And obviously, she misspoke; she made a grammatical error. <v Kent Manahan>Does that concern you? <v Carlos Hernandez; V. P. Academic Affairs at Jersey City State>Sure. I would be concerned if that were a typical speech pattern of a student in any <v Carlos Hernandez; V. P. Academic Affairs at Jersey City State>major. <v Dennis Giordano; NJEA President>To present that for the viewers as the norm, rather <v Dennis Giordano; NJEA President>than the extraneous example that I believe it to be, is inappropriate. <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>We need to do better than we have done at <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>all of our colleges more so at some of our colleges

<v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>in, ah, educating our students. <v Kent Manahan>A recent study by the National Center for Education Information entitled "The Making <v Kent Manahan>of a Teacher" concludes that no assessment of qualification takes place <v Kent Manahan>at entry or exit levels from teacher certification programs. <v Kent Manahan>The study goes on to point out that today's education programs accept everybody <v Kent Manahan>who has the slightest aspiration to teach. <v Kent Manahan>We know about low SAT scores for students going into teacher education programs. <v Kent Manahan>We know about the high number of students who require remedial work going <v Kent Manahan>into these programs. Is that an indication that this study is right on? <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>I think the study, uh, as-as you've given the-the excerpts of it, is <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>right on. We are the only state in the United States in the past 2 years who <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>have said "No more; not here." And we're trying to turn around 43 <v Dr. Saul Cooperman; N.J. Education Commissioner>years of that non-system. <v Kent Manahan>New Jersey has taken steps to attract higher caliber teachers. <v Kent Manahan>An $18,500 minimum salary bill is now in effect.

<v Kent Manahan>Is the higher salary a guarantee? <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>It helps. <v Kent Manahan>We're talking now $18,500. <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>No, it's a condition. Well, $18-$18,500 is pretty good. <v Kent Manahan>But what would be a guarantee? 25? <v Kent Manahan>35? <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>No. I-I-I- Well, I would argue that it's not the starting salary that's important, <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>but the potential the student can reach. <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>It's how high the salary can go for an experienced teacher and whether <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>a-a good teacher can get special increments, merit recognition, <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>because they are good. <v Kent Manahan>Besides higher salaries to help attract more qualified teachers, the state has also <v Kent Manahan>designed an alternate route program whereby highly qualified professionals without <v Kent Manahan>prior experience can teach. <v Kent Manahan>And now, in order to be certified in New Jersey, graduating education majors must pass <v Kent Manahan>an exam. [Students talking in the background] These Jersey City State students had just <v Kent Manahan>taken the national teachers exam a couple of days before we arrived on campus. <v Kent Manahan>Most thought they failed, but the college now guarantees its graduates will pass <v Kent Manahan>the test or get remedial help until they do.

<v Kent Manahan>What was your opinion of the exam? <v Keri Burns; Jersey City State Student>It had nothing to do with-with teaching, in my opinion. <v Kent Manahan>Why not? <v Keri Burns; Jersey City State Student>It was too difficult. I felt it was more professional than general. <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>The test was never intended and doesn't purport to test <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>the ability of students to teach. <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>The test is directed at whether or not the students are- know <v T. Edward Hollander; Chancellor, Higher Education>the subject area. They want to teach. <v Kent Manahan>Thousands of education majors took the national teachers exam in June. <v Kent Manahan>Looking at the results, Bloomfield College, Jersey City State, and Kean College in <v Kent Manahan>Union were among the schools with the highest failure rates. <v Kent Manahan>Trenton State had one of the best records. <v Kent Manahan>[Teacher speaking in the background] Of all the elementary education majors at the Mercer <v Kent Manahan>County School who took the exam, only 4 percent failed. <v Kent Manahan>[Children speaking in the background] A couple of years ago, Trenton State raised its <v Kent Manahan>requirements for incoming freshmen going into education. <v Kent Manahan>In addition, administrators say the key to the school's successful record is early <v Kent Manahan>practical experience in the field. <v Dr. Leon Durkin; School of Ed, Trenton State College>I think if you're gonna learn about theory and practice of teaching, you can't just learn

<v Dr. Leon Durkin; School of Ed, Trenton State College>about it; you've got to have an opportunity to do it and to see it in practice. <v Kent Manahan>About 20 percent of Trenton State's education majors eventually drop out of the program. <v Kent Manahan>For some, it's too difficult. Others find teaching is not for them. <v Kent Manahan>Interestingly, only 1 of the 4 teachers we gather together said she would definitely <v Kent Manahan>go into teaching all over again. <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>When I finished my graduate studies, I had the option of applying other places, and <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>I kept saying, "Oh, that's what I'm going to do. <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>I should get out of teaching now. I can make more money, I can do other things." But <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>something held me back. I really love what I do. <v Robert Kirsch; Summit H.S. Teacher>I don't know if I can say yes or no, I would go into teaching. <v Robert Kirsch; Summit H.S. Teacher>I love teaching; uh, it's been good to me. <v Robert Kirsch; Summit H.S. Teacher>I've had a lot of great opportunities in teaching. <v Robert Kirsch; Summit H.S. Teacher>So, I c-can't; I'd have to give a lot more thought to that. <v Kent Manahan>What about you, Kaaren? <v Kaaren Patterson; Elizabeth Teacher>I don't think I would stay in it as long as I have. <v Kaaren Patterson; Elizabeth Teacher>It- I love doing it, but it's-it's a luxury that I can't afford. <v Kent Manahan>Now it's your turn to speak out on education.

<v Kent Manahan>We're conducting a poll so you can let us know what you think. <v Kent Manahan>What aspect of our educational system most needs improvement in your opinion: <v Kent Manahan>teachers, curriculum, or administrators? <v Kent Manahan>Give us a call at these 900 numbers. <v Kent Manahan>Dial 1-900-220-2111 if your answer is <v Kent Manahan>teachers, 1-900-220-2122 for curriculum, <v Kent Manahan>or 1-900-220-2133 for administrators. <v Kent Manahan>Each call will cost you 50 cents. <v Kent Manahan>Those numbers will be repeated at the end of the program and we'll have the results for <v Kent Manahan>you on Friday night. Tomorrow night, challenging gifted and talented students <v Kent Manahan>and those who need remedial help. <v Speaker>[End of Part 2] <v Kent Manahan>Under New Jersey's Public Education Act of 1975, students are guaranteed <v Kent Manahan>the right to what has been termed a thorough and efficient education, but <v Kent Manahan>some poor urban districts charge that they aren't getting enough money from the state to <v Kent Manahan>keep up with suburban areas. <v Kent Manahan>So they filed suit against New Jersey, citing the need for equalized tax resources <v Kent Manahan>to help fund education.

<v Kent Manahan>There are no easy answers for wiping out problems in urban districts, but there are some <v Kent Manahan>success stories. Tonight, in part 3 of "Public Education: Sizing Up the <v Kent Manahan>System," we go to Elizabeth and Camden, where pilot programs and innovative <v Kent Manahan>teaching work. <v Kent Manahan>[Sound of children and geese in the background] Twice a year, these <v Kent Manahan>4th grade students from Camden leave the city and experience a whole new environment <v Kent Manahan>in nearby Winslow Township. <v Dwayne Gaines; Camden 4th Grade Student>It feels good being out in the country. That's where- this is where my dad <v Dwayne Gaines; Camden 4th Grade Student>grew up back in the country. <v Dwayne Gaines; Camden 4th Grade Student>That's why I love to be out here. <v Jim Flanagan; Environmental Center>We try to reinforce the skills of the boys and girls are learning in the classroom, <v Jim Flanagan; Environmental Center>doing it in a more active, hands-on approach, uh, giving them a taste <v Jim Flanagan; Environmental Center>of nature, trying to point out here at the facility, the different trees, bushes, and <v Jim Flanagan; Environmental Center>animals that they also have in the-in the city. <v Kent Manahan>With some federal help, Camden has set up this basic skills improvement program. <v Kent Manahan>The children are exposed to new learning experiences.

<v Kent Manahan>Very often, the result is a contagious desire for more. <v Kent Manahan>[Teacher teaches in the background: Teacher: "W", Students: "West"] In Camden, 65 percent <v Kent Manahan>of the students need remedial work. <v Kent Manahan>The district spends an average of $3,700 per pupil each year, well <v Kent Manahan>below the statewide $4,337 average. <v Kent Manahan>But even at that level of spending, the supplemental program at the Lanning Square School <v Kent Manahan>has been highly successful. <v Kent Manahan>Here, 95 percent of the students who took the minimum basic skills test last <v Kent Manahan>year scored above state standards. <v Kent Manahan>The school district credits dedicated teachers as well as involved parents. <v Kent Manahan>Carlton Wilson and Mark Merrill each have young children at the Lanning Square School. <v Kent Manahan>They're generally pleased with their academic progress. <v Mark Merrill>I can only compare that to what we learned, what I learned when I was, uh, in <v Mark Merrill>kindergarten. We were learning "Old McDonald had a Farm," [Teaching in the background] <v Mark Merrill>whereas my children were coming home knowing all of their ABC's, <v Mark Merrill>um, writing skills, um, drawing skills, uh, speaking

<v Mark Merrill>skills, and I think that that's very positive, and, ah, <v Mark Merrill>forming the foundation for their educational skills, ah, in the future. <v Speaker>[Teacher reading to children in the background: "And I'm going up to the meadow to make myself fat"] <v Kent Manahan>After years of seeing low test scores in Camden City schools, administrators <v Kent Manahan>decided to start remedial work in preschool. <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>That's consistent with national research that says if you expose a <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>youngster 4 years of age to a quality program, ah, well, <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>he's going to have his readiness skills strengthened. <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>Ah, it's just common sense that youngster's going to do better. <v Kent Manahan>[Teacher teaches in the background] But high absenteeism and socio-economic problems <v Kent Manahan>common in city areas are all important factors which detract from the learning <v Kent Manahan>process. <v Kent Manahan>Why do basic skills scores continue to be so low in urban areas? <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>The test scores in urban areas are generally <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>not looked at in terms of where the youngsters start and where we bring

<v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>them. Ah- <v Kent Manahan>Isn't that an indication then that we should start someplace else? <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>No. <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>Ah, we need to look very closely at the child and-and make a decision as to whether <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>or not we are in a position to educate or whether or not we're educating <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>the total child. <v Kent Manahan>[Teacher teaching in the background: It's called a boxing turtle because when it's <v Kent Manahan>frightened...] What Camden is doing for students in need of remedial work, the city of <v Kent Manahan>Elizabeth is doing for gifted and talented youngsters. <v Kent Manahan>When students enter the 1st grade here, their parents can apply to a special program <v Kent Manahan>which runs from 2nd grade through high school. <v Kent Manahan>Boys and girls are picked not just on academics, but also on athletic ability and <v Kent Manahan>visual and performing arts skills. <v Kent Manahan>[Violin in the background] These children have come to School Number 21 to study the <v Kent Manahan>performing arts. None of them have ever played the violin before, but here, they're <v Kent Manahan>learning about the instrument by recognizing its many different sounds. <v Kent Manahan>Here, as in Camden, there is an emphasis on firsthand experience. <v Kent Manahan>Goals are set for students and high standards are maintained.

<v Kent Manahan>There is a regular system of checks and balances between the school and district <v Kent Manahan>administrators. <v Kent Manahan>[Teaching in the background] In this 2nd grade science class, there are no textbooks. <v Kent Manahan>Children learn to listen and conduct experiments much the way they would in junior high <v Kent Manahan>school. The program started in 1979. <v Kent Manahan>Some of the first youngsters to go through the school are now in high school. <v Kent Manahan>A number of informal follow ups done on those students over the years have shown a high <v Kent Manahan>rate of academic success. <v Kent Manahan>Most are honors students, generally in the top 10 percent of their class. <v Susan Miksza; Principal, School 21>In addition to teaching children what we would call the 3 R's, we are teaching <v Susan Miksza; Principal, School 21>them how to feel good about themselves, 'cause if you feel good about yourself, you're <v Susan Miksza; Principal, School 21>going to go on to achieve more. <v Kent Manahan>[Teaching in the background] Administrators at the Lanning Square School and School 21 in <v Kent Manahan>Elizabeth give credit for their successful programs to hardworking, highly creative <v Kent Manahan>teachers and supportive parents who take an active role in their children's education. <v Kent Manahan>Do you ever reach a point in the city- <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>Mm-hmm. <v Kent Manahan>-of Camden, do you think, where you can guarantee to the parents that the students who <v Kent Manahan>are graduating are the best that they can be?

<v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>We're at this point that we will continue to-to guarantee them that we will do everything <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>that we possibly can in the Camden City schools-- <v Kent Manahan>And are you doing that? <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>--to get our students towards that- <v Kent Manahan>And are you doing that? <v Dr. Roy Dawson; Acting Asst. Superintendent>Are we doing that? We are certainly on the right track. <v Kent Manahan>What do you think of New Jersey's education system? <v Kent Manahan>We're conducting a poll and we'd like to hear from you. <v Kent Manahan>In your opinion, what aspect of our educational system most needs improvement: <v Kent Manahan>teachers, curriculum, or administrators? <v Kent Manahan>Dial 1-900-220-2111 if your answer is teachers, <v Kent Manahan>1-900-220-2122 for curriculum, or 1-900-220-2133 <v Kent Manahan>to choose administrators. Each call will cost 50 cents. <v Kent Manahan>Those numbers will be repeated at the end of this program. <v Kent Manahan>Tomorrow night, parents and teachers speak out on public education. <v Speaker>[End of Part 3] <v Kent Manahan>For the past 3 days, New Jersey network has been conducting a poll to go along with <v Kent Manahan>our series "Public Education: Sizing Up the System." The poll is not scientific; <v Kent Manahan>it's at random. And those participating paid 50 cents to register their votes.

<v Kent Manahan>Here's the way the vote turned out: when asked what aspect of the educational system most <v Kent Manahan>needs improvement, 56 percent of those who called said administration, <v Kent Manahan>29 percent said teachers, and 15 percent of those who voted <v Kent Manahan>said curriculum changes. <v Kent Manahan>For the concluding part of this series, producer Janice Selinger and I spoke with some <v Kent Manahan>teachers and parents about the need for change. <v Kent Manahan>We begin with a group of parents from Cherry Hill and Camden. <v Kent Manahan>Surprisingly, when we asked in which area they would like to see some changes made: <v Kent Manahan>teachers, curriculum, or administrators, 3 out of 4 said curriculum. <v Carlton WIlson; Camden Parent>Different areas have different populations, different people populate different areas. <v Carlton WIlson; Camden Parent>So you would, ah, take your curriculum is suited more towards the people <v Carlton WIlson; Camden Parent>who live there as opposed to a standardized curriculum for an entire area. <v Elaine Lessig; Cherry Hill Parent>Curriculum, again, I just think that-that the world <v Elaine Lessig; Cherry Hill Parent>is changing so rapidly from what used to be.

<v Kent Manahan>Mark Merrill, a father of 2 young children in the Camden public school, had a different <v Kent Manahan>answer. <v Mark Merrill>I would have to think that the, uh, if any changes were to be made, it would <v Mark Merrill>have to be in the administrative levels because that is where we get- <v Mark Merrill>everything else falls under that, because that's where all the policies are set. <v Mark Merrill>That's where, um, the curriculars are made up. <v Kent Manahan>Syvonne Forkin, a former teacher and the mother of a Cherry Hill Junior High student, <v Kent Manahan>feels curriculum is the most important area for change, but she would also like to <v Kent Manahan>see some improvement in teacher training. <v Syvonne Forkin>Our teachers are doing an excellent job, but everyone can improve. <v Syvonne Forkin>And I don't think there's enough opportunity for in-service, uh, <v Syvonne Forkin>with our teachers in new areas that they're going to be teaching, such as <v Syvonne Forkin>in a computer program or in even new <v Syvonne Forkin>ways of teaching and how to approach children. <v Kent Manahan>Since the parents we spoke to seem generally satisfied with teachers, we decided to find <v Kent Manahan>out if the teachers in our series were satisfied with themselves.

<v Kent Manahan>Mary Ellen Mannix of Elizabeth spoke frankly: <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>[Teacher teaching in the background] I don't think everybody who thinks they can teach can <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>teach. It takes a lot. It takes a lot of patience. <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>It takes a lot of understanding. It takes a lot of background, a lot of work, a lot of <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>sacrifice. <v Kent Manahan>Rick, Mary Ellen, Kaaren, and Bob all have advanced degrees in their specialty <v Kent Manahan>fields. They differ on how, but they do agree the teacher training in New Jersey needs <v Kent Manahan>improvement. <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>People that I see coming out of the program have had too much, ah, <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>in-classroom work in areas such as how to teach social studies, how to teach math, how to <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>teach reading instead of providing them with a background, a liberal arts background, uh, <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>background that they can really pick and choose from when they do teach, provide a lot to <v Mary Ellen Mannix; Elizabeth Teacher>their children. They're so limited. <v Kaaren Patterson; Elizabeth Teacher>I think teachers should- licensed teachers should have to go to school 5 years, 4 <v Kaaren Patterson; Elizabeth Teacher>years in liberal arts or whatever their specialty is and 1 year of teaching. <v Kent Manahan>Interestingly, when we offered the teachers a chance to size up parents' interest in the <v Kent Manahan>children's education, the teachers spoke openly. <v Kent Manahan>How about parents? Do they give you enough support? What do you think?

<v Kaaren Patterson; Elizabeth Teacher>I would say no, that they don't. <v Kaaren Patterson; Elizabeth Teacher>I think it's more of an attitude of the child is turned over to the school system to <v Kaaren Patterson; Elizabeth Teacher>be taught. <v Rick O'Neill; Summit Jr. High School>Parents who I see most often, either in school, <v Rick O'Neill; Summit Jr. High School>back to school night function, or other functions, are the parents of students who <v Rick O'Neill; Summit Jr. High School>are doing well, and the parents who I don't meet too often, uh, <v Rick O'Neill; Summit Jr. High School>unless I initiate it usually, are the parents, uh, of students who are not doing well. <v Kent Manahan>Citing mostly financial reasons. <v Rick O'Neill; Summit Jr. High School>I have a difficult time living in the same town where I teach. <v Kent Manahan>3 of the 4 teachers in this series, all of whom have been teaching for 10 years or more <v Kent Manahan>and make less than $28,000 a year, said they would not go into teaching <v Kent Manahan>again. <v Syvonne Forkin>Money is essential because we have to have that to live, but <v Syvonne Forkin>we really have to have the kinds of people who are really interested in this because of <v Syvonne Forkin>the children. <v Kent Manahan>And that's really the bottom line: the children. <v Kent Manahan>They're our future. Teaching is a profession that extends well beyond an 8 hour

<v Kent Manahan>day with responsibilities that stretch far beyond the classroom. <v Kent Manahan>To help make the system work better, teachers deserve the cooperation and respect of <v Kent Manahan>parents and school boards. So in the long run, we will all be the beneficiaries.