Gershwin at 80; Part 1

<v Radio Host>The following program has been made possible in part by a grant from Chapel Music. <v Radio Host>[piano plays] <v Radio Host>This is Gershwin at 80. <v Radio Host>During the next 4 hours, you will hear a special tribute to the great American composer <v Radio Host>George Gershwin, presented today on the 80th anniversary of his birth. <v Radio Host>This special broadcast will feature original cast recordings by Fred and the Dallas <v Radio Host>Stand, Gertrude Lawrence, Ethel Merman, Janet Gaynor, Al Jolson, Paul <v Radio Host>Whiteman and his orchestra, Red Nichols and his orchestra, Bobby Clark and Paul <v Radio Host>McCullough, Cliff Edwards and many other stage and screen favorites. <v Radio Host>There will be interviews with many friends and associates of the composer, lyricists <v Radio Host>Irving Caesar and E.Y. Harburg, orchestrator Robert Russell Bennett, composer <v Radio Host>Kay Swift, director Rouben Mamoulian, who staged the original production of Porgy <v Radio Host>and Bess, and Taza Costa, who starred in Gershwin's only operetta, <v Radio Host>The Song of the Flame. Our special guest will be the composer's sister, Frances

<v Radio Host>Gershwin Godowsky. George Gershwin himself will be heard performing many <v Radio Host>selections, both classical and popular, on rare recordings made from piano rolls <v Radio Host>and phonograph records. [piano plays] <v Radio Host>Gershwin at 80 is a special presentation of the Institute of the American Musical. <v Radio Host>And here is the president of the Institute, our host for this evening's broadcast, Miles <v Radio Host>Kreuger. <v Miles Kreuger>Like so many great American figures of the early 20th century, George Gershwin was <v Miles Kreuger>born of immigrant stock. <v Miles Kreuger>His father, Morris Gershowitz, was born in St. Petersburg, Russia, and emigrated to the <v Miles Kreuger>United States during the early 1890s. <v Miles Kreuger>Morris and his wife, Rose, had 4 children. <v Miles Kreuger>Ira, born December 6th, 1896. <v Miles Kreuger>George, born September 26, 1898. <v Miles Kreuger>Arthur, born March 14th, 1900. <v Miles Kreuger>And Frances, born exactly 10 years to the day after Ira. <v Miles Kreuger>By the time of George's birth, the family name had been somewhat Americanized and the

<v Miles Kreuger>composer's birth certificate lists him as Jacob Gershwine, spelled G E R <v Miles Kreuger>S H W I N E. <v Miles Kreuger>The family by that time had a small house in Brooklyn, though soon after they were to <v Miles Kreuger>move to the Lower East Side of Manhattan. <v Miles Kreuger>At a very young age, George revealed a remarkable instinct for playing the piano. <v Miles Kreuger>In May 1914, when he was only 15 years old, he began to work as a song plugger <v Miles Kreuger>at the music publishing house of Jerome H. <v Miles Kreuger>Remick. His earliest song dates from only two years later. <v Miles Kreuger>From 1917, we now hear George Gershwin perform his second published piece, <v Miles Kreuger>a jolly tune called Rialto Ripples [piano <v Miles Kreuger>plays]. <v Miles Kreuger>One of George's earliest collaborators is the lyricist Irving Caesar, whose career dates

<v Miles Kreuger>back to the middle teens. Still active, Caesar continues to maintain his old <v Miles Kreuger>office in the Brill Building on Broadway and 49th Street. <v Miles Kreuger>With the sounds of the street pouring in through the window, Irving Caesar and I chatted <v Miles Kreuger>recently. <v Miles Kreuger>You know, sitting here in your office in the Brill Building, <v Miles Kreuger>makes me feel such a sense of continuity with the whole history of Tin <v Miles Kreuger>Pan Alley and popular music in America. <v Miles Kreuger>It's like a time capsule, isn't it? <v Irving Caesar>Well, I'm glad you used the word continuity because the Brill Building was not <v Irving Caesar>really Tin Pan Alley. It was where much of Tin Pan Alley moved into <v Irving Caesar>when a building of this size and structure went up. <v Irving Caesar>Tin Pan Alley consisted for the most part of brownstone houses. <v Irving Caesar>And originally they were in the 20s. <v Irving Caesar>The original Tin Pan Alley was, um well, where the- <v Irving Caesar>close by the well-known Tenderloin of Manhattan eh in the 19- <v Irving Caesar>early 1900s, and then it moved to Union Square and then it moved to

<v Irving Caesar>28th Street. That was Tin Pan Alley. <v Irving Caesar>And then it moved to uh oh the 30s. <v Irving Caesar>There were some companies in the 30s. <v Irving Caesar>This was the city for the most part then of brownstone houses. <v Irving Caesar>And so the Tin Pan Alley that uh <v Irving Caesar>the uh description was meant for was not the kind of Tin Pan Alley <v Irving Caesar>that eventually wound up in the Brill Building. <v Irving Caesar>Here it was big business then. <v Miles Kreuger>This is when it became respectable? <v Irving Caesar>It became sort of respectable, if you like. <v Irving Caesar>Yes. <v Irving Caesar>Uh... <v Miles Kreuger>You're on of- are you one of the original tenants? <v Irving Caesar>Yes, I am. It was concentrated here, but didn't Tin Pan Alley uh- <v Irving Caesar>I always like to uh identify it as <v Irving Caesar>more or less being housed in rooming houses almost. <v Irving Caesar>I mean, rooming houses that were no longer boarding houses, the parlor floors or <v Irving Caesar>the entire- entire 3 floors would be <v Irving Caesar>uh a publisher's.

<v Miles Kreuger>And in those days, there were really individual human beings named Witmark and Harms-. <v Irving Caesar>That's- Well, yes, there's-. <v Miles Kreuger>They weren't just names. They weren't just imprints on music sheets. <v Irving Caesar>There was Leo Feist- <v Miles Kreuger>Leo Feist? <v Irving Caesar>Who was a great- a great publisher and ther was Isabelle Witmark. <v Irving Caesar>And then of course, T.B. Harms. There was a Tom Harms, but he <v Irving Caesar>uh sold out for very, very little. <v Irving Caesar>He was doing well to the Dreyfus brothers who took over, and of course the Dreyfus <v Irving Caesar>brothers made T.B. Harms one of the outstanding companies of the country. <v Irving Caesar>Later on they sold to Warner Brothers and then- and began again <v Irving Caesar>and made a huge success. And eventually they bought Chappell's <v Irving Caesar>of England, you know, one of the most prestigious music houses of the world of all <v Irving Caesar>time. Like the House of ?Boosie? <v Irving Caesar>Was a very famous publisher of standard material, and English <v Irving Caesar>[inaudible] <v Miles Kreuger>Now today, the record industry seems to be the cornerstone of music business. <v Miles Kreuger>They sell millions and millions of cast albums and- and rock albums and that sort of <v Miles Kreuger>thing.

<v Irving Caesar>That's right. <v Miles Kreuger>But in the days that you're describing, it was the music publisher, wasn't it? <v Miles Kreuger>Who was the centerpiece of the music industry? <v Irving Caesar>Oh, of course! It was the music publisher, of course. <v Miles Kreuger>When you first met George Gershwin, I believe he was a demonstrator in one of those <v Miles Kreuger>publishing houses, wasn't he? <v Irving Caesar>Well, he had- a demonstration is a partial description. <v Irving Caesar>In- in those days, the artists of vaudeville and burlesque uh uh <v Irving Caesar>came to the publishers to learn songs. <v Irving Caesar>They needed material. It was like going- like an actor, going in to find scripts. <v Irving Caesar>And uh there would be uh in the bigger publishing houses, <v Irving Caesar>like Remick where George worked, that would probably be a half a dozen very good, <v Irving Caesar>pianists. And there were these piano rooms, you know, cubicles practically. <v Irving Caesar>They were very small rooms. And each one had the facilities for the <v Irving Caesar>[inaudible] to come in and sometimes spend an hour or 2. <v Miles Kreuger>Did they have an upright piano? <v Irving Caesar>Upright pianos, little honky-tonk pianos, as a rule. <v Irving Caesar>And fellows like Gershwin, he was one of the youngest. <v Irving Caesar>I think he first began working for Remick when he was 8, 17 or 18. <v Irving Caesar>He was a demonstrator. In other words, he would rehearse them and they loved to rehearse

<v Irving Caesar>with George because no one, even at that stage of the game, played as interestingly <v Irving Caesar>as George played. He played the chords and sophisticated harmonies <v Irving Caesar>long before anyone else was playing them, especially in the popular field. <v Miles Kreuger>So, it was then the style for the demonstrator to embellish a little bit from what was <v Miles Kreuger>the uh- <v Irving Caesar>If he could! But no one could embellish like George, but by embellishment, he wouldn't <v Irving Caesar>add melody, but his counterpoint. <v Miles Kruger>Yes. <v Irving Caesar>So now- <v Miles Kreuger>H- harmonies. <v Irving Caesar>He was playing chords long before he knew their makeup. <v Irving Caesar>Like Mozart, for example, although Mozart started- started studying at the age of 3, was <v Irving Caesar>composing seriously at the age of 5. <v Irving Caesar>And I'm sure that even Mozart was composing from instinct, from genius, <v Irving Caesar>rather than from what he had learned at the age of 3. <v Irving Caesar>And so it was with George and any other natural pianist. <v Irving Caesar>There were many just- pianists who were just ear pianists. <v Miles Kreuger>Did you know George Gershwin long before you wrote Swanee with him? <v Irving Caesar> No, strangely enough, we came from the same neighborhood, but I didn't. <v Irving Caesar>I first met him at Remick. Oh, we had written many songs before Swanee.

<v Irving Caesar>Oh yes. We broke into the business with some of the songs and- and made a little name for <v Irving Caesar>ourselves. <v Miles Kreuger>But now Swanee was written for the opening of the Capital Theater, which is right across <v Miles Kreuger>the street- <v Irving Caesar>That's right. <v Miles Kreuger>From where we're sitting now. <v Irving Caesar>That's right. Swanee was written for the Capital Theater-. <v Miles Kreuger>1919. <v Irving Caesar>It wasn't written to them at all. No, it was used in the Capital Theater. <v Miles Kreuger>Oh, I see. <v Irving Caesar>Matt Wayburn, who was producing the Ziegfeld Frolic, on top of the New Amsterdam <v Irving Caesar>roof, and George was the rehearsal pianist there. <v Irving Caesar>He was rehearsing them, yelling, you know, well I bet it was 25 to 35 <v Irving Caesar>a week, which is pretty good salary in 19 hundred and 17 <v Irving Caesar>or 18. And uh we had Swanee and one day du- during a break in the <v Irving Caesar>rehearsal, I used to go there and visit because the girls were very pretty and I was only <v Irving Caesar>20 at the time- let's see in 1917, I was 22. <v Irving Caesar>George was 19 or 20. <v Irving Caesar>And uh at a break in the rehearsal we played Swanee for the girls, just entertain them, <v Irving Caesar>and they were very ecstatic about the thing,

<v Irving Caesar>and uh it drew the attention of Wayburn. <v Irving Caesar>He came in, said, "So what's going on?" They said, "Oh, Mr. Wayburn, they just played us <v Irving Caesar>a wonderful song." And so then Wayburn said, "Play it for me?" And we played through. <v Irving Caesar>And he said, "How would you like to have it going to the Capitol Theatre?" The Capitol <v Irving Caesar>Theatre was just being finished. <v Miles Kreuger>And at that time it was the world's largest theatre. <v Irving Caesar>Right. It wasn't constructed. I mean, it wasn't finished yet, you know. <v Irving Caesar>It was still laying down the carpets and things. But rehearsals were going on. <v Irving Caesar>And uh sure enough, it went to the Capitol Theatre and Arthur Price's <v Irving Caesar>band played it. And 16 chorus girls danced through it with electric lights <v Irving Caesar>in their shoes. That was a big effect. <v Irving Caesar>And the- they all sang it. <v Irving Caesar>The audience loved it and applauded it. <v Irving Caesar>And no one bought a copy. <v Irving Caesar>It's a funny thing a- we couldn't get it to sell. <v Irving Caesar>And uh we couldn't believe that it wouldn't be a hit. <v Irving Caesar>But even Mr. Dreyfus, when we fairly begged them to plug it as a regular popular

<v Irving Caesar>song, he said, "Boys, you can't expect more than having 5000 people a day hear <v Irving Caesar>the song and no one is buying it. <v Irving Caesar>It's a wonderful song. I love it as much as you do, but I guess it's not commercial." And <v Irving Caesar>we were brokenhearted. But one day, oh, about six weeks after <v Irving Caesar>it was heard at the Capitol Theatre, uh Jolson was playing in the Winter Garden across <v Irving Caesar>the street, as you know, and he gave a party one evening and I didn't <v Irving Caesar>get in on that residual. I was out of the town with a show, another show for Kenny <v Irving Caesar>Gordon. But George was invited. <v Irving Caesar>My buddy The Silver, who was very close to- to Al. <v Irving Caesar>He was very young, too. And at the party, well, he very generously <v Irving Caesar>asked Jolson to listen to a song that George had ?to me?. <v Irving Caesar>And Jolson heard it and his arranger Al Goodman was there and <v Irving Caesar>he turned to Al and he said, "I'll try this out next Tuesday or next Thursday." <v Irving Caesar>Say the party was on a Monday night. Then 3 days later, he did try it out at the Winter

<v Irving Caesar>Garden and the rest is history. <v Radio Host>Here now is the original 1920 recording of "Swanee," sung by Al Jolson. <v Speaker>[instrumental] <v Al Jolson>I've been away from you a long time. <v Al Jolson>I never thought I'd you so. <v Al Jolson>Somehow I feel your love was real. <v Al Jolson>Near you I long to be. <v Al Jolson>The birds are singing, it is song time. <v Al Jolson>The banjos strummin' soft and low. <v Al Jolson>I know that you yearn for me too. <v Al Jolson>Swanee, you're calling me. Swanee. How <v Al Jolson>I love you, how I love you.

<v Al Jolson>My dear, old Swanee! I'd give the to be among <v Al Jolson>the folks in D I X I. <v Al Jolson>Even now, my mammy's waiting for me, praying for <v Al Jolson>me down by the Swanee. <v Al Jolson>The folks up north will <v Al Jolson>see me no more, when I go to the Swanee shore! <v Al Jolson>Swanee! Swanee! I'm coming back to Swanee! <v Al Jolson>Mammy. <v Al Jolson>Mammy. <v Al Jolson>I love the old folks at home! <v Al Jolson>[instrumental] <v Al Jolson>Swanee!

<v Al Jolson>How I love you, how I love you. My dear old Swanee! <v Al Jolson>I'd give the world to be <v Al Jolson>among the folks in D I X I. Even now my mammy's waiting for me, praying for me, down by <v Al Jolson>the Swanee. <v Al Jolson>The folks up north will see me no more, when I <v Al Jolson>go to the Swanee shore! <v Irving Caesar>Well, to get back to- to uh Swanee and George. <v Irving Caesar>That was our very big break, I think. <v Irving Caesar>See, up to that time, George and I were collaborators who wrote <v Irving Caesar>I think- I think I wrote my first 15 songs with him. <v Irving Caesar>Yankee Doodle Blues- <v Miles Kreuger>How did you work together with him? Did he have a tune and you set it to lyrics? <v Miles Kreuger>You remember in Sw- in the case of Swanee?

<v Irving Caesar>Most of the time, most of the time. I came to him with an idea for a song. <v Miles Kreuger>An idea? <v Irving Caesar>And he was very fast. No- no a lyric. <v Miles Kreuger>A real lyric. <v Irving Caesar>I remember our first song. <v Irving Caesar>What was my first song with George. I think my first song with George was- and it was his <v Irving Caesar>second song ever published: "You-oo Just You." [singing] Who's the <v Irving Caesar>most wonderful gal in Dixie? <v Irving Caesar>Who-oo? You-oo. <v Irving Caesar>And tell me, who's the most wonderful pal- gal and pal, they were kids you know, <v Irving Caesar>19, 17, or so. <v Irving Caesar>You-oo, just you. Whose eyes shine like the stars in the night? <v Irving Caesar>Who's got the kind of lovin' fills my heart with delight. <v Irving Caesar>And who am I goin' to we in Dixie? <v Irving Caesar>Who-oo? Who-oo? You-oo, you-oo. <v Irving Caesar>Just you. <v Irving Caesar>Well we wrote that in about 10 minutes or 15 minutes. [laughs] We worked very fa- well we <v Irving Caesar>wrote Swanee in less than 20 minutes. <v Irving Caesar>We worked very fast. <v Miles Kreuger>I would say that was an extremely good investment in time. <v Miles Kreuger>Wouldn't you? [laughs]. <v Irving Caesar>Yes. Yes. We were on fire most the time when we worked. <v Irving Caesar>Because I loved his piano playing so much. <v Irving Caesar>Yeah. George and I broke in with a song that- not "You-oo Just You," although that was

<v Irving Caesar>London in this 1917,[inaudible] and <v Irving Caesar>I wouldn't say it was a hit. It was a song of distinction and it sold some copies and so <v Irving Caesar>forth. But then we wrote a song that was the very show <v Irving Caesar>[inadib;e] show called Good Morning, Judge. <v Irving Caesar>And that was both a song of distinction and sold copies. <v Irving Caesar>One of the best songs, I think, that George and I ever wrote, anyhow, song called <v Irving Caesar>"I was so young, you were so beautiful. <v Irving Caesar>What was a fellow to do? <v Irving Caesar>I was enraptured with you. <v Irving Caesar>They told me not to. But still, I loved you. <v Irving Caesar>How, I loved you." It was a big hit. <v Irving Caesar>"I was so young. You were so beautiful. <v Irving Caesar>They said you couldn't be true. <v Irving Caesar>Each time I looked at you, my heart grew sad. <v Irving Caesar>You made me give you all the love I <v Irving Caesar>had. T'was then I realized why men go mad.

<v Irving Caesar>But I was so young. <v Irving Caesar>And you were so beautiful.". <v Irving Caesar>[laughs] And George, he was 20, I think at the time. <v Irving Caesar>And I was 22 or 23. <v Miles Kreuger>When you have a streak of- of success like that with a composer, how do you drift <v Miles Kreuger>away to another composer? <v Irving Caesar>I didn't drift away from him. He very logically eh took up with his brother <v Irving Caesar>Ira, who was a very good diversifier, and he- <v Miles Kreuger>But he also worked with Buddy Desylva for a while. They wrote uh "Somebody Loves Me" together. <v Irving Caesar>Well, [talking over each other] well, we worked together when he worked with Buddy, as a <v Irving Caesar>matter of fact, we wrote "Yankee Doodle Blues," the 3 of us. <v Irving Caesar>You don't drift away. Those things happen. Don't you know? <v Irving Caesar>I don't know. There's no real explanation for the thing. <v Irving Caesar>And then when he start workin' with Ira, he worked with nobody else. <v Irving Caesar>But that was a break for me, because when he start workin' with Ira, I start work for <v Irving Caesar>Youmans and we had "No, No, Nanette," and we made lots of hits and lots of money <v Irving Caesar>long before George started making. <v Miles Kreuger>Irving, it's been a joy to talk with you today.

<v Irving Caesar>Thank you. <v Miles Kreuger>Appreciate your taking the time. <v Radio Host>From 1920 through 1924, George Gershwin wrote the scores for the <v Radio Host>annual George White scandals. <v Radio Host>His friend, Buddy Desylva collaborated with brother Ira to supply lyrics for the <v Radio Host>perennial hit "I'll Build a Stairway to Paradise." The big production number featured the <v Radio Host>rotund king of jazz himself, Paul Whiteman. <v Radio Host>And here is Whiteman's original 1922 recording of "I'll Build a Stairway <v Radio Host>to Paradise." <v Speaker>["I'll Build a Stairway to Paradise" instrumental] <v Speaker>["I'll Build a Stairway to Paradise" instrumental]

<v Speaker>["I'll Build a Stairway to Paradise" instrumental] <v Radio Host>One of Broadway's most popular stars during the 1920s was Irène Bordoni, whose

<v Radio Host>slightly risque bedroom farce comedies were often interlarded with popular <v Radio Host>songs. For the 1923 production, "Little Miss Bluebeard," <v Radio Host>George, Ira and Buddy Desylva supplied Miss Bordoni with a flirtatious, <v Radio Host>"I Won't Say I Will.". <v Irène Bordoni>You're a very naughty boy; when you ask me for a kiss, I'm dismayed. <v Irène Bordoni>A little bit afraid. <v Irène Bordoni>Now, holding hands is quite a joy for <v Irène Bordoni>a truly modest miss; It should do just as well for you. I am not <v Irène Bordoni>refusing you, dear; let me make this perfectly clear: <v Irène Bordoni>I won't say I will, but I won't say

<v Irène Bordoni>I won't. <v Irène Bordoni>I don't say I do, but I don't say I <v Irène Bordoni>don't. <v Irène Bordoni>Kissing of any kind never was on my mind. <v Irène Bordoni>Maybe I can arrange it. <v Irène Bordoni>It's my mind and I can change it. <v Irène Bordoni>I might say I might, but modesty forbids; <v Irène Bordoni>that's the reason why I don't! <v Irène Bordoni>So you mustn't be cross at the little delay: you ought <v Irène Bordoni>to know Rome wasn't built in a day! <v Irène Bordoni>I won't say I will, but <v Irène Bordoni>I won't say I won't. <v Irène Bordoni>Oh, I won't say I will, but I won't say <v Irène Bordoni>I won't.

<v Irène Bordoni>Oh! I don't say I do, but [laughs] I don't say I don't. <v Irène Bordoni>Maybe it's just my way; maybe I'm cold, but say! <v Irène Bordoni>Although my glance like ice is, <v Irène Bordoni>how I warm up in a crisis! <v Irène Bordoni>I might say I might, but modesty forbids; <v Irène Bordoni>that's the reason why I don't! <v Irène Bordoni>You'd have taken your kiss if you had any cheek. <v Irène Bordoni>Maybe I'd scream, but my voice is so weak. <v Irène Bordoni>I won't say I will, but [laughs] I <v Irène Bordoni>won't say I won't. <v Radio Host>1924 was a turning point in the career of George Gershwin. <v Radio Host>Paul Whiteman commissioned him to write a short piece for a special concert called An

<v Radio Host>Experiment in Modern Music, to be held at Aeolian Hall on Lincoln's birthday. <v Radio Host>The curiously random programing of the concert ranged from a symphonic tone poem by <v Radio Host>Victor Herbert called "Sweet of Serenades" to the popular pianist Zez Confrey <v Radio Host>playing his "Kitten on the Keys." Amid the musical hodgepodge, the Whiteman <v Radio Host>Band, with George at the piano, introduced "Rhapsody in Blue," <v Radio Host>as arranged for the orchestra by Ferde Grofé. <v Radio Host>In 1924, Gershwin had his first big success in London, the musical "Primrose," <v Radio Host>and his first important book show on Broadway, "Lady Be Good," starring Fred and Adele <v Radio Host>Astair. Recalling those days, we now hear the composer's sister, Frances <v Radio Host>Gershwin Godowsky. <v Miles Kreuger>I'm fascinated by what it must have been like to <v Miles Kreuger>grow up in a home with a man like George Gershwin, with a man <v Miles Kreuger>that had his kind of drive and his kind of imagination. <v Miles Kreuger>And what was it like to be a young girl in a family like that? <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>Yes, but the thing is that as I was growing up, you see, 'cause my 3 brothers,

<v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>at that time, our age difference was such that I was just a kid sister <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>and I wasn't paid much attention to because George at a very early age was, you know, <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>around 16, was already on his way and he was away from home a good deal <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>because he was uh playing the piano for [inaudible] and- and he was at <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>Remick's and- and he was just away a good deal. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>And I was busy running around, going to school, and so far, it was only when <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>I was about 18, from about 18 on, that he began paying <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>some attention to me and I began being more aware of <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>him as a person. I used to be fascinated always to hear him playing <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>the piano and- and listen to him composing things. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>But I- I uh- I'm always sorry when people asked me a question like that, that I <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>can't tell them more about uh George's growing up and <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>all that, because I just couldn't go through that period with him, you see. <v Miles Kreuger>From what I understand, he was a very gregarious person and loved to be surrounded by

<v Miles Kreuger>friends-? <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>Oh yes, oh that I know, because when I- from 18 on, when we had parties or he'd take me <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>to parties with him, and play the piano with him. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>He'd like the did his songs and he'd asked me to sing. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>And then he would sing- and he had a wonderful style of singing. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>I guess he must have been told that. <v Miles Kreuger>Oh, yes. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>You know he'd tilt his head and sing with great uh <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>enthusiasm and love and he enjoyed his- his own play, his own music, <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>his own compositions. <v Miles Kreuger>When he was composing, was he as concerned about the presence of other <v Miles Kreuger>people, or was he a very private person? <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>No, I mean uh it could be both. But uh no when people around, even at parties <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>sometimes, he'd suddenly- he'd play something and suddenly he'd start playing some phrase <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>of some kind and say, "Hm, I like this." You know? <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>And it- it would develop into uh a song. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>And uh no he had no feelings about people being around at all. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>He- he enjoyed them, and he was gregarious and people enjoyed him. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>And, as you know, he loved playing the piano for them.

<v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>And um uh and when he was alone <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>he'd compose also, I mean he was uh he was so happy in his music. <v Miles Kreuger>We'd always would hear stories about how he would introduce the scores to his shows at <v Miles Kreuger>the parties and all the people who represented the smart set at that time knew the scores <v Miles Kreuger>for all the shows a season ahead of time. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>That was very true. <v Miles Kreuger>[laughs] That must've been fun. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>He wanted to get people's approval of what he <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>was- to feel- to see if they felt about his songs the way he felt about them. <v Miles Kreuger>Why do you think he needed so much approval? <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>Well, it isn't that he needed it. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>He wanted it. There's a difference. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>He- he enjoyed it. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>He enjoyed so much what he did. You know, when people said that George was vain and- and <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>[inaudible], he was very honest about it. He liked what he did, and he- and he made no <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>bones about it. He didn't- he had no false modesty. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>And he'd say, "Look, I wrote something today and I like this very much, listen to it." <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>You know? And uh he was really very darling about it. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>Many people misunderstood this, misinterpreted.

<v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>They- they- they felt that uh, oh, what a vain person and so forth, only <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>because he was honest about it. <v Miles Kreuger>I think people are often put off by candor because they don't know how to cope with it. <v Miles Kreuger>We spend so much time guarding our own emotions for social reasons or 1 <v Miles Kreuger>reason or another. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>Yes, but he was a lot of fun. And we used to do- he was a very good dancer. <v Frances Gershwin Godowsky>I don't know if anyone ever told you that. <v Miles Kreuger>Oh, I've heard, yes.