Gershwin at 80; Part 7

<v Miles Krueger>Do you think he felt in writing them in the first place that it was simply an obligation <v Miles Krueger>to write that kind of recitative simply because he was writing an opera? <v Rouben Mamoulian>Exactly. That's what it was. <v Rouben Mamoulian>When I told him my reasons for it, he agreed with it completely. <v Rouben Mamoulian>I couldn't have done it without his consent and not only consent, but his <v Rouben Mamoulian>approval. Now, as to the buzzard song, here, <v Rouben Mamoulian>again, I felt that somehow that- that aria, and I still feel the same way about <v Rouben Mamoulian>it, uh was a little out of character with the whole texture of the <v Rouben Mamoulian>score. It- it just didn't fit in organically as the rest <v Rouben Mamoulian>of it did. And also, I must confess, it kept reminding <v Rouben Mamoulian>me of the aria of the Norwegian ?guest? <v Rouben Mamoulian>In Sadko, the opera by Rimsky-Korsakov. <v Rouben Mamoulian>And another curious thing happened that whenever I rehearsed it, then would got lunch <v Rouben Mamoulian>with George and I'd be humming the aria of Rimsky-Korsakov <v Rouben Mamoulian>at Lindy's, and George dropped his knife and fork, and he said, <v Rouben Mamoulian>"Rouben, what on earth is the matter with you?" He said, "You've just been rehearsing my

<v Rouben Mamoulian>music and now you're humming this Russian tune. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Why do you do that?" Well, I didn't want to tell him exactly why. <v Rouben Mamoulian>I said, "Well, I'm sorry, George. I don't know why I did it." Well, subsequently, <v Rouben Mamoulian>I told him and I said, "You know, really, we'll be better off if we take that thing <v Rouben Mamoulian>out of there." And he agreed. <v Rouben Mamoulian>So, you know, when they do this and in the programme, they said, "Here we're bring 'Porgy <v Rouben Mamoulian>and Bess' the way the composer wrote it and would have liked it to have been done." <v Rouben Mamoulian>How stupid can you get? The composer was right there; every hour of the <v Rouben Mamoulian>day we worked together. And he not only accepted those things, but he <v Rouben Mamoulian>approved of them. <v Miles Krueger>They also said that this is the first time that it was ever performed complete, that <v Miles Krueger>the composer never heard it. But of course, there was a complete run-through of the score <v Miles Krueger>before leaving New York. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Of course! <v Miles Krueger>So he certainly heard the whole score from beginning to end and knew exactly <v Miles Krueger>what it- what it sounded like-. <v Rouben Mamoulian>[speaking over Miles] Well of course, because that's the way we started rehearsals: everything. <v Rouben Mamoulian>And then gradually, well, as it happens with every musical, every dramatic <v Rouben Mamoulian>play as you rehearse. You cut things, you change things and so on.

<v Rouben Mamoulian>Uh But the- the- the humor uh and the- the absurdity <v Rouben Mamoulian>of saying that that's the way George Gershwin would like it, as if they- he wasn't <v Rouben Mamoulian>allowed to have it on. It was all with his total consent and the enthusiastic <v Rouben Mamoulian>approval. Otherwise we could have never done it. <v Miles Krueger>It strikes me as quite a remarkable feat that within the 10 years <v Miles Krueger>from 1924 when "Rhapsody in Blue" was premiered <v Miles Krueger>to 1934, when he wrote most of "Porgy and Bess" or began writing "Porgy and <v Miles Krueger>Bess," that this is merely one decade and the growth of that man <v Miles Krueger>was something so stupefying, it's almost hard to imagine. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Yes. <v Miles Krueger>I wonder how it affected him as a person now. <v Miles Krueger>You didn't know him before "Porgy and Bess," I imagine? <v Rouben Mamoulian>I did know him way before. As a matter of fact, George was one of the guys I first met <v Rouben Mamoulian>when I first came to America. <v Rouben Mamoulian>When I was in Rochester, I was directing operas - <v Miles Krueger>Oh, I didn't know that. <v Rouben Mamoulian>At the East End Theater, and there was a little club there with

<v Rouben Mamoulian>aficionados of music. <v Rouben Mamoulian>And one evening they asked me to supper there and I went there. <v Rouben Mamoulian>They were friends. And among the guests was Arthur Rubinstein, <v Rouben Mamoulian>the great pianist. <v Rouben Mamoulian>And with him, was a young fellow by the name of George Gershwin. <v Rouben Mamoulian>That's where I met him first, I did way back in 1923. <v Miles Krueger>Isn't that something. <v Rouben Mamoulian>24. So after dinner at this club, they asked <v Rouben Mamoulian>Arthur Rubinstein to play and he played some of the classical music. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Then he asked George Gershwin to play. And incidentally, in those days, George was a very <v Rouben Mamoulian>kind of cautious, insecure man, very unhappy looking, kind <v Rouben Mamoulian>of frustrated, suspicious, cautious of the world. <v Rouben Mamoulian>That was my impression. So George was rather shy, says, "How <v Rouben Mamoulian>can I play with Rubinstein there?" But he said no, so finally insisted. <v Rouben Mamoulian>So he sat down and played some of his songs. Uh he was a songwriter. <v Rouben Mamoulian>And then after he got into it, he said, by the way, you know, I'm working on something <v Rouben Mamoulian>that is different and that that I hope would be good material for

<v Rouben Mamoulian>a concert. And so they said, well, why don't you play some of it? <v Rouben Mamoulian>And they started playing this excerpt and it was marvelous. <v Rouben Mamoulian>It was new, fresh, dynamic, fascinating, rhythmically <v Rouben Mamoulian>bold. <v Rouben Mamoulian>So I finally got through I ?inaudible? <v Rouben Mamoulian>"Gershwin, what are you gonna call this?" And he said, "Well, I thought I'd call it <v Rouben Mamoulian>'Rhapsody in Blue.'" [laughs] And that was it. <v Rouben Mamoulian>A few months later, Paul Whiteman performed it at Carnegie Hall. <v Rouben Mamoulian>From then on, it was history. <v Miles Krueger>Yes. <v Rouben Mamoulian>So George Gershwin, I don't think George Gershwin has changed <v Rouben Mamoulian>that all throughout the years I've known him. <v Rouben Mamoulian>I knew him very well when he was here with Ira. <v Rouben Mamoulian>We used to play tennis together. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Have dinners together. George was always the same. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Uh and what made George- you had to know him to really <v Rouben Mamoulian>take him in the right way, because a lot of people thought he was very conceited

<v Rouben Mamoulian>for a simple reason that he loved his music. <v Rouben Mamoulian>He just would say, "I don't believe I wrote it." Whenever <v Rouben Mamoulian>he was at the party, if there was a piano and George would go sit down and start and <v Rouben Mamoulian>would play throughout the evening. You didn't have to ask him, you know, and he <v Rouben Mamoulian>?inaudible? And he was a master at the keyboard. <v Rouben Mamoulian>You know what, the way you could improvise the vari- variations on <v Rouben Mamoulian>"I've Got Rhythm" for us. He had played that through the years. <v Rouben Mamoulian>And every time he played it, it was like a new- a new composition <v Rouben Mamoulian>because he would juggle with it like a circus juggler, you know, wonderful. <v Rouben Mamoulian>He was a child at heart, as I think, all great men, great artists are. <v Rouben Mamoulian>If you lose the child in you, then- then you're not really very good. <v Rouben Mamoulian>He was very innocent. <v Rouben Mamoulian>So whenever he said those things, that would seem atrociously conceited, <v Rouben Mamoulian>they were not. He was a very honest man. <v Rouben Mamoulian>He wrote great music. He loved it.

<v Rouben Mamoulian>And he should have. <v Miles Krueger>And it's interesting-. <v Rouben Mamoulian>And I think it's much more refreshing than when somebody says oh well you know, that uh <v Rouben Mamoulian>that false kind of a modesty. <v Miles Krueger>It's interesting, too, that he was willing to remove at your suggestion <v Miles Krueger>some music from "Porgy and Bess," which was obviously a great labor of love for him <v Miles Krueger>simply because he knew it was inappropriate for the occasion. <v Miles Krueger>He obviously had a great dedication, not just to his own ego and gratifying that, but <v Miles Krueger>also the work of theater. <v Rouben Mamoulian>No, oh absolutely. That's what I say when I- when I tell you that he was a great <v Rouben Mamoulian>showman. <v Miles Krueger>Yes. <v Rouben Mamoulian>There was no arguments. Not at all. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Once he told me about it, they had listened to it and he would go and say it was right. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Out came the pencil. <v Miles Krueger>Any final thoughts about "Porgy and Bess" and its role in the development of the <v Miles Krueger>broken musical? <v Rouben Mamoulian>Well, I think "Porgy and Bess" is probably the finest example of the American musical <v Rouben Mamoulian>theater. The most original and the most influential. <v Rouben Mamoulian>And I just I cannot tell you how much I miss George. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Not only as a composer, but as a friend.

<v Rouben Mamoulian>But when you think of it, he died while he was 38, 39 years old. <v Rouben Mamoulian>I still- what, one marvels, he could have written after that. <v Rouben Mamoulian>As a matter of fact, before his death, we discussed- he kept telling me, "Don't <v Rouben Mamoulian>you have a subject for an opera? I'd like to do another one." And I came <v Rouben Mamoulian>up and I told him, "How about ?Dybook?" I think it would have been perfect. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Do you remember ?Dybook?, the play? <v Rouben Mamoulian>And he said, well, he said, "Unfortunately, an Italian just wrote it in Italy." <v Rouben Mamoulian>So we dropped that. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Uh but I think there were- we lost a great, great number of musical treasures <v Rouben Mamoulian>when that man died. <v Miles Krueger>Extraordinary to think that he could still be alive today composing. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Yes, yes. <v Miles Krueger>Easily. <v Rouben Mamoulian>I must say, I miss him very much as a person. <v Rouben Mamoulian>He was such- he was a sweet, sweet man. <v Rouben Mamoulian>That is one of those uh cases that, <v Rouben Mamoulian>curiously enough, for others too rare: when the creative artist <v Rouben Mamoulian>and the person are 1.

<v Rouben Mamoulian>Sometimes you meet a great writer and you're very disappointed in him as a person, <v Rouben Mamoulian>or sometimes even a great composer. <v Rouben Mamoulian>How on earth can this man write that kind of music? <v Rouben Mamoulian>But with George, there was no dichotomy, no polarity of this sort. <v Rouben Mamoulian>He was all 1 and which is colorful, interesting, <v Rouben Mamoulian>innocent and immensely lovable. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Well, you know, Ira has some films that he took. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Some of the times we spent, we used to play tennis, George and I. <v Rouben Mamoulian>Singles. And we were both pretty bad at it, but we had a lot of <v Rouben Mamoulian>fun. And George took that just as seriously as he took everything he <v Rouben Mamoulian>ever tackled. You know, his- his whole heart was in it. <v Rouben Mamoulian>And every time he would miss a ball, he would clutch the racket to his chest and <v Rouben Mamoulian>say, "No, no!" You know, suffering. <v Rouben Mamoulian>[laughs] So after a couple of times, I would- he would say, "No, no!" And from the other <v Rouben Mamoulian>side of the court, I finish the line by saying, "You can't take that away from me!"

<v Rouben Mamoulian>You know his song? <v Miles Krueger>[laughs] Yes. <v Rouben Mamoulian>So every time he missed, he'd go, "No, no!" And I'd finish the song. <v Rouben Mamoulian>And after each time he would laugh like a child, no matter how many times you repeated <v Rouben Mamoulian>it. ?Each time was as new to him as the last? <v Miles Krueger>That's funny. Rouben, thank you very, very much. <v Rouben Mamoulian>You're welcome. <v Radio Host>On July 19th, 1935, while "Porgy and Bess" was still in rehearsal, George <v Radio Host>Gershwin and several principals created an historic recording of that work in progress. <v Radio Host>Listen to the sounds of the pages turning as George Gershwin conducts the original cast <v Radio Host>of "Porgy and Bess" and introduces the artists and selections himself. <v Speaker>George Gershwin is conducting and will announce these portions of his new opera, "Porgy," <v Speaker>recorded for the first time and played for the first time. <v George Gershwin>Uh we will start with the piano solo uh at 5 bars before 9 because <v George Gershwin>uh the piano has a solo lasting about 2 minutes, which we will not waste time with now. <v George Gershwin>5 bars before 9. Scene 1.

<v Speaker>[George Gershwin plays piano with orchestral back-up while singer scats] <v George Gershwin>And now we go to number 56 in the first act, which is a song called "A Woman is a

<v George Gershwin>Sometime Thing." And it will be sung by Mr. Edward Matthews. <v Speaker>["A Woman is a Sometime Thing" plays] <v George Gershwin>And now we will play a little bit of the orchestra part of the finale of

<v George Gershwin>Season 1, Act 1. <v Speaker>What number? <v George Gershwin>What is it? <v George Gershwin>Number 156. <v George Gershwin>156 ready? <v George Gershwin>156, 1 flat, ready? <v Speaker>[instrumental plays]. <v George Gershwin>Now we have a song by uh Miss Ruby Elzie in the 2nd act, scene 1, called "My

<v George Gershwin>Man is Gone Now." <v George Gershwin>Sorry it's in scene 2- scene 2, act 1. <v Speaker>[instrumental plays] <v George Gershwin>And now we'll have to duet in the first scene of Act 2,

<v George Gershwin>of "Porgy" sung by Todd Duncan and uh Bess, who's played by <v George Gershwin>Ann Brown. <v George Gershwin>95. <v Speaker>95 in act 2, scene 1. <v George Gershwin>And please give me 3 bars before ?a cellie? <v George Gershwin>3 bars before 95 in the same scene. <v Speaker>["Porgy" plays] <v Speaker>

<v Radio Host>In August 1936, George and Ira Gershwin left for California to begin work

<v Radio Host>on 2 of their loveliest song collections. <v Radio Host>The RKO films, "Shall We Dance?" and "A Damsel in Distress." The first, <v Radio Host>"Shall We Dance?" stars Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. <v Radio Host>From its score, we hear Astaire sing "Slap That Bass" and "They Can't <v Radio Host>Take That Away from Me." The accompaniment is by Johnny Green and his orchestra.