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<v Henry Hyde>Let me ask you a question. Was your son drafted in the military <v Henry Hyde>to be taken over there? Is he over there against his will? <v Alex Molnar>I want to answer that, Senator. I wish you would, because I think it shows a cynical <v Alex Molnar>disrespect for the brave young men and women who are serving in Saudi <v Alex Molnar>Arabia. They enlisted Senator Hyde. <v Alex Molnar>And as you well know, there are two sides to every contract. <v Alex Molnar>And the contract that my son signed, he is fulfilling that obligation. <v Alex Molnar>However, as you know, the other side of the contract is that the government <v Alex Molnar>and the officials of the United States will not use our soldiers for purposes for <v Alex Molnar>which they were not intended and they were intended to protect and defend this country <v Alex Molnar>and its Constitution and Senator - Mr. Hyde. <v Alex Molnar>Well, you swore an oath of allegiance when you took office to the Constitution of the <v Alex Molnar>United States of America. <v Alex Molnar>And the Constitution says that it doesn't matter if George Bush consults with you <v Alex Molnar>or informs you, the Constitution of the United States says that only Congress <v Alex Molnar>shall declare war.
<v Henry Hyde>All right. John, is it my turn? <v Alex Molnar>Yes, sir. <v Henry Hyde>Yeah. I really don't need a lecture from you, Professor, about the Constitution. <v Henry Hyde>I mean, were you ever in the service? <v Alex Molnar>What difference does that make? <v Henry Hyde>Well, I want to know. Yes or no? <v Alex Molnar>No, Senator. <v Henry Hyde>I didn't think so. <v Alex Molnar>So what is your point, Senator? <v Henry Hyde>My point is that I don't need it. <v Henry Hyde>I don't need a lecture from you about an obligation to my country because <v Henry Hyde>I fought in World War Two in combat in the South Pacific. <v Henry Hyde>So I know quite a bit about the situation you're describing now. <v Alex Molnar>So did many people in our network, Mr. Hyde. <v John Callaway>Let Mr. Hyde finish. <v Henry Hyde>That's great. Now, let me just say this. <v Henry Hyde>Nobody wants a war. We all know the Constitution gives the <v Henry Hyde>Congress the exclusive power to declare war. <v Henry Hyde>But we also know that something might happen over there before a chance <v Henry Hyde>is obtained for us to declare war. <v Henry Hyde>The president, as commander in chief under the Constitution, has the <v Henry Hyde>right to deploy forces. <v Henry Hyde>He has the support of Congress right now because if he didn't, we'd
<v Henry Hyde>be in session passing resolutions requiring the soldiers to come <v Henry Hyde>home. It is a fact, however, that the president has got to get the support <v Henry Hyde>of the people of this country and the Congress, as well as probably the U.N. <v Henry Hyde>for any offensive tactics to occur. <v Henry Hyde>Meanwhile, our national interests are being protected over <v Henry Hyde>there. And, yes, it concerns oil and yes, it concerns domination <v Henry Hyde>of the Persian Gulf by a dictator, Saddam Hussein, who could bring <v Henry Hyde>the whole world into a depression by controlling that very <v Henry Hyde>valuable resource. We have national interests over there that concern our defense, <v Henry Hyde>the economy of the free world. <v Henry Hyde>And that's why they're over there. <v John Callaway>I have a follow up question and then I want to hear from Mr. Muller. <v John Callaway>You say that something might happen that would cause the president <v John Callaway>to take action without consulting the Congress. <v John Callaway>Could you give us an example of what that something might be or a couple of examples, <v John Callaway>Congressman Hyde? <v Henry Hyde>Yes. If if Saddam Hussein decides that he's in an untenable situation
<v Henry Hyde>and launches an attack either across the border into Saudi Arabia <v Henry Hyde>or across Jordan into Israel, to change the dynamic over there, the <v Henry Hyde>president would have the right. Historically, they have had it and have it under the <v Henry Hyde>Constitution to deploy the forces, to defend our <v Henry Hyde>troops over there and our cause over there before a declaration of war <v Henry Hyde>would be declared. <v John Callaway>Mr. Molnar, do you agree with that? <v Mr. Molner>It sounds like the same old world order to me, as I say again. <v Mr. Molner>I would like Congressman Hyde to ask the president of the United States how many body <v Mr. Molner>bags have been ordered for Operation Desert Shield that I think the American <v Mr. Molner>people deserve to know. <v John Callaway>I would assume that if everything you are saying is true, that you then <v John Callaway>must be or your government then must be extremely disappointed <v John Callaway>with Saudi Arabia and with other Gulf states who, <v John Callaway>after all, were also protected. <v John Callaway>I'm told by you during the war with Iran.
<v John Callaway>And who didn't have to do the dirty work, as it were, for those eight years. <v John Callaway>Now they go with the United States. <v John Callaway>My question, and perhaps this will sound a little pejorative but let me put it to you <v John Callaway>this way. Don't you then see those states as revealing their true colors <v John Callaway>as client states of the United States because of the oil relationship? <v John Callaway>And wouldn't you want then? And don't you find yourself then in a state <v John Callaway>of understandable hostility with their behavior in this crisis? <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>Well, first of all, let me inform you, if they are not <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>only client state, but they are puppet states. <v John Callaway>That's all right. Let's call them puppet states. <v John Callaway>Let's go with it. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>OK. And do you know right after the cease fire <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>in the war between Iraq and Iran, which took place on August 20th, <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>1988 there were some American emissaries <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>going to the Gulf.
<v Mohamed Al-Mashat>Contacting the governments there, informing them to <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>be afraid of Iraq. In other words, to implant in their head. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>To be afraid of Iraq because Iraq came out the victor. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>And now Iraq has a big army. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>It's all of this. This is part and parcel of a preconceived plan. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>To occupy. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>The patrol, the patrol area, as you did. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>Now you occupy Saudi Arabia, Qatar now and Emirates and all of this. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>And then. There was another objective of <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>the United States offensive buildup. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>It's to destroy Iraq. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>Because Iraq. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>Is a country with lots of bright pan-Arabists, <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>consider the Palestinian problem it's the is the major <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>problem. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>And definitely part and parcel of American motivation
<v Mohamed Al-Mashat>was contributed by the Israeli lobby in this country. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>So this is what happened because you see, I am really shocked <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>to hear some people. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>Mass media and even people with position, whether elected position <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>or appointed position. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>They throw such words as saying now the Iraqis, they cannot talk to <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>the Arabia. Everybody has a short memory. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>If we have harbored any bad intention against through their <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>Arabia, let alone the fact that we have non-aggression pact, <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>that we have had no problem with Saudi Arabia, that we had excellent <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>relations with Saudi Arabia, when we took action against Kuwait, it was <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>on the statement of Yogesh. <v John Callaway>So you have excellent relations with Saudi Arabia, which you also but you also call them. <v John Callaway>And I and I think you're sincere when you call them. <v John Callaway>This is why premised my question the way I did. <v John Callaway>You called him a puppet state. Therefore, if we think that you think that Saudi Arabia is
<v John Callaway>a puppet state and the other Gulf states are puppet states, why wouldn't we then <v John Callaway>say we can't trust these people, that they'll stop at Kuwait? <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>Well, because for a very simple reason, the simple reason that we <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>understand that this is a strategic area for the United States, <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>we haven't touched it. We know what it means is number one. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>Number two, we don't need their oil. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>We don't need anything of that because we have the second proven reserves <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>of oil. We have no ambition in that. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>And then there is another proof. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>When we went into Kuwait, it was on the 2nd of August. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>We could have gone right through because we have 1000 km with Saudi <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>Arabia, with 1000 km of border. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>We didn't have to go only from south of Kuwait. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>We could have made many prong attack on the second, third, fourth or fifth. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>You did not come to filter in. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>You did not land in Saudi Arabia until the 8th of August.
<v John Callaway>All right. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>This is the further proof. All right. Now everybody's saying if Iraqi attack. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>Now we are going to give them hell. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>My God. It makes me sometimes laugh. <v John Callaway>Let me move to the question. Let me move this question of guests and hostages. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>[?inaudible?] Whatsoever. <v John Callaway>Let me move to the question of guests and hostages. <v John Callaway>If I invite you into my home. <v Mohamed Al-Mashat>Mhm. <v John Callaway>But then I locked the doors and don't let you out. <v John Callaway>Are you a guest or a hostage? <v John Callaway>Yuri Barnier, I want to go back to my scenario, which has a withdrawal <v John Callaway>from Kuwait by Iraq. <v John Callaway>Time passes. Then there's a conference. <v John Callaway>There's a World Court deliberation. <v John Callaway>The complaints that led to his taking Kuwait, annexing Kuwait, <v John Callaway>are then addressed. Maybe he's given an oil field lease. <v John Callaway>Maybe he isn't. But that conversation goes on. <v John Callaway>Then there's another decent interval. <v John Callaway>Now world opinion comes and says Israel, we've
<v John Callaway>got all kinds of stuff going on in the Soviet Union. <v John Callaway>South Africa. Kuwait. <v John Callaway>It's your turn. Talk to your Palestinian friends. <v John Callaway>Get something on the table. Do something. <v John Callaway>Are you prepared to deal with this? <v Man>Of course. We have a peace plan on the table. <v Man>We have Mr. Shamir plan on the table endorsed by the United States, which calls <v Man>for four parts. Number one, direct negotiations between Israel <v Man>and all the Arab states for the peace. <v Man>Let them renounce the state of war. <v Man>They are against Israel until this very day, since 1948. <v Man>Well, if annihilation. Number two. <v John Callaway>I'm sorry. Let me interrupt. Oh, wait, wait, wait. Number one, you agree that there is <v John Callaway>that state of war which needs to be renounced? <v Ghada Talhami>Well, but press Chairman Arafat recognize Israel accepted Resolution 242. <v Ghada Talhami>What did Israel do? Did they respond? <v Man>Of course we will. The question of recognition was a <v Man>absolutely false as it was implemented, because when he had to decide <v Man>between supporting Abu Abbas and continue a dialog with the United States,
<v Man>he supported Abul Abbas. Terrorism was not ready to - <v John Callaway>You acknowledge, Ghada Talhami, you acknowledge that Israel then didn't think that that <v John Callaway>was a bona fide move? <v Ghada Talhami>Definitely Israel's preferred formula for a peace negotiation is the unilateral approach. <v Ghada Talhami>The Camp David formula that is dealing with one single Arab country at a time with <v Ghada Talhami>only United States as a mediator. The preferred Arab formula for peace is an <v Ghada Talhami>international peace conference under the auspices of the Security Council with the <v Ghada Talhami>participation of members of the Security Council. <v Ghada Talhami>This is where we punch. <v John Callaway>Israel is not a member of, right? <v Ghada Talhami>Well, no, but it doesn't have to be a member. <v John Callaway>No, I understand. I just want to get it on the record that Israel - Libya is on the <v John Callaway>Security Council. But Israel is not. <v Ghada Talhami>Libya is not a permanent member. <v Speaker>[overlapping chatter] [?inaudible?] <v John Callaway>I want to make it clear that I did not say Libya was a permanent. <v Ghada Talhami>There were other times in history when Israel might have been on the Security Council, <v Ghada Talhami>still, you never accepted this particular formula. <v Ghada Talhami>All right. That preferred formula is unilateral. <v John Callaway>I just I just want to establish to place their second point. <v Speaker>And the second point is in negotiations with the
<v Speaker>Palestinians. <v Speaker>For autonomy, and we proposed the first time ever to conduct free elections <v Speaker>in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, they negotiated autonomy and <v Speaker>take it from there. We'll have a final settlement. <v Speaker>The third point is to address the refugee problem right now, because this is the <v Speaker>harbinger of terrorism. <v Speaker>And the fourth point is that the Camp David Accords, which proved to be successful, <v Speaker>everything else is talk. The only successful negotiations were with Egypt and Israel, <v Speaker>negotiated directly with the good offices of the United States. <v Speaker>We will take the good offices of United States any time. <v Speaker>We will never take the bad offices of international conference because <v Speaker>and we just and Mrs. Talhami just mentioned it. <v Speaker>Look what will happen. Israel alone. <v Speaker>With all the Arab countries. <v Speaker>With the five big powers, some of them hostile, some of them poor Arab, <v Speaker>and America will have to be neutral and we are left alone. <v Speaker>Why can't how can we really resolve our very complex problems through an international -
<v Speaker>one second please. <v John Callaway>We've said - no you're through now. Our thanks to Uri Barnier, Ghada Talhami, and Marvin <v John Callaway>Stonas for being with us this evening. We invite you to join us tomorrow night at 7:00 <v John Callaway>when our Chicago tonight guests will be Gail Sheehy, who has just written a biography, <v John Callaway>Mikhail Gorbachev and Hedrick Smith, who has updated his original book, The Russians, <v John Callaway>with a book called The New Russians. They'll tell us how Gorbachev rose to power and <v John Callaway>discuss whether or not he can weather the current winter of discontent in the Soviet <v John Callaway>Union. I'm John Callaway. Thank you and good night. <v John Callaway>Did Mr. Arafat play a part in the hostage release? <v John Callaway>Yes. <v John Callaway>And when you say the community is not going to tolerate it, what is the community doing? <v Father Pfleger>Well, the community is working and on all sorts of angles. <v Father Pfleger>From legislation. We see Ed Burke and the city council is trying to <v Father Pfleger>develop an ordinance about uh banning all billboards in the city of Chicago. <v Father Pfleger>Monique Davis is in the state House Representatives. <v Father Pfleger>We're going for a zoning and the alderman to try to rezone so that billboards can be
<v Father Pfleger>taken out of different all wards throughout the city and people are taking out brushes <v Father Pfleger>and painting throughout the city. <v John Callaway>People are taking brushes and painting and they're painting. <v John Callaway>We saw [?inaudible?] speaks we saw the billboards <v John Callaway>painted over. People that are your supporters are doing that? <v Father Pfleger>Yes, people. People are. And not so much my supporters is people are -. <v John Callaway>This movement. <v Father Pfleger>Saying that that they're against this and that it talk about our war on the billboards. <v Father Pfleger>The billboards declared war on the community, that people are defending themselves. <v Father Pfleger>And are you a part of that? I mean, have you been doing some of that pain? <v Father Pfleger>I support the alcohol and tobacco billboards leaving this community by whatever means it <v Father Pfleger>takes. Have you been doing some of the painting? <v Father Pfleger>My attorney tells me til the court comes up not not to answer that question in a public <v Father Pfleger>forum. <v John Callaway>Now, that's interesting, because if you take a look at Martin Luther King's <v John Callaway>direct action, you see the Dr. Martin Luther King didn't say, well, my attorney <v John Callaway>not to comment, said not to comment. He just took the penalty, went to jail, did <v John Callaway>what was necessary in civil disobedience. <v John Callaway>And that high visibility was a very great part of his strategy.
<v John Callaway>I mean, it was almost planned that he do that. <v John Callaway>Why aren't you able just to say, John? <v John Callaway>Yeah, I painted it. If I go to jail, I go to jail and let's address the issue. <v John Callaway>Isn't that about? <v Father Pfleger>Unfortunately 1990, 1960 are big difference with the way we handle the court systems. <v Father Pfleger>And I have to take the advice of my attorney. <v Father Pfleger>I do. I do publicly say that I support communities doing whatever is necessary <v Father Pfleger>to get alcohol and tobacco billboards out. <v Father Pfleger>This is about life and death. We're in a country that supports property protection <v Father Pfleger>and we have to be at a company that turns that around to people and life. <v John Callaway>When you see the courts are different in 1990 - <v Father Pfleger>Very different. <v John Callaway>What do you mean by that? <v Father Pfleger>Because that court that the angles, the politics, the <v Father Pfleger>the ways decisions are made in courtrooms. <v Father Pfleger>Now, in 1990, a much different, much different system. <v Father Pfleger>It's a much different system we're battling. <v John Callaway>Are you saying It's worse. <v Father Pfleger>Oh, certainly worse. <v John Callaway>Worse than what King faced in the South? <v Father Pfleger>Ask people about the justice and the court system at 26 in California <v Father Pfleger>any day and go into any one of those courtrooms and ask the way courts are handled today. <v John Callaway>Is it your perception -
<v Father Pfleger>We are litigating society. <v John Callaway>Is it your perception that those billboards lead directly to the death <v John Callaway>of black and Hispanic youngsters? <v Father Pfleger>Well, alcohol is considered to be number the number one health problem <v Father Pfleger>in the African-American Hispanic communities. <v Father Pfleger>Tobacco is the number one killer. They have been proven statistically to be the entrance <v Father Pfleger>way into the illegal drugs in the schools and <v Father Pfleger>in our community. When a survey was taken as what is, those those symbols <v Father Pfleger>of adulthood. Today, the top three things were smoking, being legal <v Father Pfleger>to drink, and car. Those are the passageways. <v John Callaway>There's no question about the impact of alcohol and tobacco on health. <v John Callaway>I think that's been clearly established. Are you saying that there is direct evidence the <v John Callaway>children who walked by billboards have their behavior affected in such a way that <v John Callaway>they become addicted to these things? <v Father Pfleger>A sociologist did a survey for me about saying that if he put up one hundred and eighteen <v Father Pfleger>billboards of Hershey candy bars in <v Father Pfleger>our community, that the percentage within a three to four month data,
<v Father Pfleger>there would be an average of up to possibly 30 percent increase. <v Father Pfleger>Now, whether that would stay or remain, but it would be up to a 30 percent increase. <v Father Pfleger>Now, Hershey can candy bars can do that in a three to four month period what <v Father Pfleger>can alcohol or cigarettes that are addictive? <v John Callaway>Dr. Flager you deal with kids all the time. Are you seeing your kids in that neighborhood <v John Callaway>smoke and drink a lot? <v Father Pfleger>I'm saying that drinking and smoking is going to increase anywhere where people push you <v Father Pfleger>to do it. That's fact. That's right. I'm advertising. <v John Callaway>Let's assume for the let's assume for the sake of discussion. <v John Callaway>That's true. I am now asking you, are you seeing these particular communities doing a <v John Callaway>good bit of smoking and drinking? <v Father Pfleger>Yes I see a definite alcohol and tobacco problem. <v Father Pfleger>Yes, I do. In my neighborhood. <v John Callaway>What do you say to Mr. Morris, who runs his own advertising agency <v John Callaway>and has to face questions like that all the time in terms of <v John Callaway>accepting money from somebody that's doing alcohol and tobacco? <v John Callaway>What would you say to him? <v Father Pfleger>I say there has to be a social responsibility. <v Father Pfleger>People can simply - the outdoor advertising people have turned to me and said, we're just <v Father Pfleger>the messenger. And then they try to wash their hands and walk away.
<v Father Pfleger>You can't wash hands. You have a responsibility to the community. <v Father Pfleger>That must be taken to task. <v John Callaway>Morris what do you say? <v Eugene Morris>Well, I think that Father Pflegar is really making our medium much more powerful <v Eugene Morris>than it really is. Obviously, I can't say that advertising doesn't <v Eugene Morris>work. I think it does work. But I can say that simply because <v Eugene Morris>you put an image on a billboard, it doesn't mean that everybody is going to stop <v Eugene Morris>doing what they're doing and run out and start doing whatever you're suggesting on <v Eugene Morris>that billboard. <v John Callaway>Ok but what does that mean? <v Eugene Morris>It's not quite that simple. <v John Callaway>OK, but what does it mean? <v Eugene Morris>It means that when you put an image up there that there are a number of other <v Eugene Morris>things that happen also. I mean, it's not just that particular ad. <v Eugene Morris>I mean, there are promotions that are done. <v Eugene Morris>It takes frequencies over time that these things happen. <v John Callaway>Well, let's say the billboards are up there and that they are a part of an overall <v John Callaway>campaign. Are they then part and parcel of what Father Pfleger is suggesting <v John Callaway>is something that can really have an impact on kids, even though they may not be targeted
<v John Callaway>at kids directly? <v Eugene Morris>They can have an impact. But but our society, if you look at I like to watch <v Eugene Morris>old movies. If you watch old movies, I mean, they're full of people. <v Eugene Morris>Everyone in the movie smoked and drank. <v Eugene Morris>I mean, that was a part of society. <v John Callaway>Do you have clients that are alcohol or tobacco clients? <v Eugene Morris>Yes. <v John Callaway>And who are they? <v Eugene Morris>Brown-Forman Beverage Company, which makes a number of of alcoholic beverages. <v John Callaway>And do you have billboards in minority neighborhoods? <v Eugene Morris>Yes. <v John Callaway>With those products? <v Eugene Morris>My agency. The reason for our existence is that we develop campaigns <v Eugene Morris>designed to reach and sell black consumers. <v Eugene Morris>Now, alcohol and alcohol is not all we do. <v Eugene Morris>In fact, it's a very small part of what we do. <v John Callaway>But the point is that you do have billboards in minority neighborhoods. <v John Callaway>And would you agree that minority neighborhoods are good, targeted audiences for alcohol <v John Callaway>and tobacco? Was that a proven fact? <v Eugene Morris>Well, I think that that the whole nature of marketing and advertising is <v Eugene Morris>targeting. I mean, if there's no one I've never I've been doing this for over 20
<v Eugene Morris>years. And I've never been in a situation where a marketer said <v Eugene Morris>that they wanted to reach everybody. I mean, it's it's targeting marketing is <v Eugene Morris>targeting by definition. <v John Callaway>And would you agree that schoolchildren walk by these billboards who may be <v John Callaway>influenced by them in the matrix of other things that you've discussed, whether it be <v John Callaway>movies or real life or whatever? <v Eugene Morris>Well, I think that that the influence that billboards create or any advertising <v Eugene Morris>creates is only one part of that. <v John Callaway>My question was, do you agree that school children walk by that and that they see that <v John Callaway>part of it? <v Eugene Morris>They see it, of course. And some of them probably look at that and they think, well, <v Eugene Morris>that's a neat looking person, or maybe I would like to be like him. <v Eugene Morris>But that does not mean that simply because they see it that they <v Eugene Morris>will then turn to drinking and smoking. <v John Callaway>But is it a part? <v John Callaway>Good evening and Labor Day greetings. I'm John Callaway and welcome to Chicago tonight. <v John Callaway>When programs like this one take working people themes for their Labor Day broadcasts we
<v John Callaway>usually focus on the importance of labor unions and the development of fair working <v John Callaway>conditions in this country and around the world. <v John Callaway>We will depart from that this evening to deal with some workers who happen to be nonunion <v John Callaway>for the most part, but who have been subjected to great unfairness and discrimination in <v John Callaway>the course of trying to do their jobs. <v John Callaway>Some of the people we'll be talking about tonight wear Vice President stripes or hold <v John Callaway>jobs with even higher rank. And yet they have stories to tell which are not entirely <v John Callaway>dissimilar from the kinds of stories of struggling union people have told in the past. <v John Callaway>We're talking about the black men and women who encountered corporate racism as they <v John Callaway>tried to rise to the top of American business. <v John Callaway>These are stories they told to Chicago real estate man and author Dempsey Travis <v John Callaway>in a new book entitled Racism American Style A Corporate Gift, <v John Callaway>a book which is number one in the Chicago Tribune, writing a bestselling nonfiction in <v John Callaway>the Chicago area. But this program is not a book interview, per say, because <v John Callaway>what Dempsey Travis has written about is front page news. <v John Callaway>The Chicago Sun-Times reported that seven of the 10 largest Fortune 500 companies
<v John Callaway>in the Chicago area have a total of only 13 blacks working as vice presidents <v John Callaway>or higher, out of more than six hundred twenty five executive positions. <v John Callaway>And all of the recent controversy over blacks being excluded from country clubs is not <v John Callaway>just a sports story. It is very much tied to a pattern of discrimination in the business <v John Callaway>world. We will hear much more about that from Dempsey Travis, right after this background <v John Callaway>report. From Chicago tonight, correspondent Chitra Ragavan. <v Robbie Smith>I'm calling to talk about this startup seminars that we're presenting next <v Robbie Smith>Thursday. <v Chitra Ragavan>Entrepreneur Robbie Smith says she knows about corporate racism because she worked <v Chitra Ragavan>in corporate America for more than 17 years. <v Chitra Ragavan>Smith joined Amoco Corp. in Chicago as a secretary when she was only 16. <v Chitra Ragavan>She went to night school at Roosevelt University and earned a degree in communications, <v Chitra Ragavan>and she worked her way up Amoco's corporate ladder until she became manager of urban <v Chitra Ragavan>affairs. <v Robbie Smith>Everything in corporate America is not all black.
<v Robbie Smith>I benefited a lot. I told you I got my education, my my education. <v Robbie Smith>I'm a college graduate today because of Amico. <v Robbie Smith>And I appreciate that. <v Robbie Smith>It was best training ground for me to learn the corporate system, <v Robbie Smith>the American system, because of that work at Amoco. <v Robbie Smith>I know how things work in this country. <v Robbie Smith>I think I know how to deal with what I call the white mind. <v Robbie Smith>And that was because of my exposure at Amoco. <v Chitra Ragavan>Four and a half years ago Robby Smith left Amoco because <v Chitra Ragavan>she says she knew she had gone as far as she could go in corporate America. <v Robbie Smith>You know that you will only rise so high, and that is you're going <v Robbie Smith>to get to a certain level and that will be it. <v Robbie Smith>You can get raises every year, make very good salaries, for example. <v Robbie Smith>I was making over fifty thousand dollars a year. <v Robbie Smith>I had a friend. I had an expense account. <v Robbie Smith>I traveled. I had a wonderful job as far as money and opportunities <v Robbie Smith>were concerned. But as far as fulfillment, long range, I didn't see
<v Robbie Smith>it. And I felt that I had the the talents to do just a little bit more. <v Chitra Ragavan>Smith says she knew it was time for her to leave. Her boss at Amico, who was the director <v Chitra Ragavan>of her department, retired. <v Robbie Smith>I was the second person in his department. <v Robbie Smith>Often he was not there. <v Robbie Smith>I had to manage the department, the budget and everything. <v Robbie Smith>However, when he retired, I was not even considered. <v Robbie Smith>First, they interviewed a couple of white women outside of the company. <v Robbie Smith>They then interviewed white men outside of the company. <v Robbie Smith>Later, I think, out of courtesy and I really believe this. <v Robbie Smith>They interviewed black and inside the company. <v Robbie Smith>I was never interviewed for the job, even though I managed the department. <v Robbie Smith>The writing was on the wall. I was not going to sit there and train <v Robbie Smith>a white man for a job that I had been doing a number of years. <v Chitra Ragavan>Since she left corporate life, Robbie Smith has managed her own public relations <v Chitra Ragavan>consulting firm, The Right Image Inc.
<v Chitra Ragavan>Smith also develops and conducts educational entrepreneurs at the cosmopolitan <v Chitra Ragavan>Chamber of Commerce on Chicago's South Side. <v Robbie Smith>It has been difficult. I won't say it has not been, but with all things <v Robbie Smith>being equal, with all possibilities for me, I would rather struggle <v Robbie Smith>as an entrepreneur than to go back into corporate America. <v Robbie Smith>I say that because I know that I'm going to be stuck at some point. <v Robbie Smith>I will never rise to the point of the average white person <v Robbie Smith>for Chicago tonight. <v Chitra Ragavan>I'm Chitra Ragavan. <v Dempsey Travis>In rappers to superstars. <v Dempsey Travis>I mean, I don't think we had a better superstar than a fellow named Jerry Williams <v Dempsey Travis>who we talk about who became president <v Dempsey Travis>of AOM International. <v Dempsey Travis>He was such a star that whenever they had a problem, Cockneys standing in <v Dempsey Travis>Berlin, sentiment, Hong Kong anywhere. <v Dempsey Travis>OK, he decided the chairman decided he was going to move on and he thought Jerry should
<v Dempsey Travis>replace him as chief executive officer of Fortune 500 Company. <v Dempsey Travis>There was one mistake made. The mistake was that Jerry permitted his picture to appear on <v Dempsey Travis>the front page of Fortune magazine. <v John Callaway>When he had never done it before. It's the first time he'd broken his own rule, right? <v Dempsey Travis>Write his own rule and all hell broke loose. <v Dempsey Travis>What happened is that White Boys Network CEO networks say, look, <v Dempsey Travis>we cannot break up this club. <v Dempsey Travis>Blacks don't fit. Within six months jerry was on his way out. <v Dempsey Travis>He never made CEO. <v John Callaway>Now, the other thing which Reverend Riddick, I want you to comment on, and that is those <v John Callaway>who would say, look, the real issue, that Operation Push, interestingly enough, has not <v John Callaway>addressed, is this whole issue of using Michael Jordan, Spike Lee and others <v John Callaway>to sell these high priced status shoes <v John Callaway>to black teenagers, among others, kids that are using them perhaps for the wrong reasons, <v John Callaway>who maybe can't even afford them, who are killing each other over them. <v John Callaway>And why don't you address yourself to that question they would ask?
<v George Riddick>Well, first of all, we don't think the issue is Michael or Spike. <v George Riddick>They are friends of ours. But even if they were not, you know, John Thompson or any of <v George Riddick>them, they are very adequate role models. <v George Riddick>And it is unfortunate that the circumstances of the way they are marketed <v George Riddick>and other circumstances in the total media have, <v George Riddick>in addition to, of course, agendas of others, gangs <v George Riddick>and others have led to the violence. <v George Riddick>But it has nothing to do with them. <v George Riddick>I might say. And our issue is not that we do <v George Riddick>not discount, as a matter of fact, we emphasize the need <v George Riddick>for entrepreneurship, but there are many strategies of reaching <v George Riddick>entrepreneurship, particularly when you're in a climate where banks are not readily <v George Riddick>listening to the matter of your securing additional loans or additional <v George Riddick>capitalization to get started. <v George Riddick>When the average age of a black entering business is thirty eight.
<v George Riddick>And when you are beginning to try to expand this situation, you <v George Riddick>need many strategies. And we're just simply saying one of the strategies that has <v George Riddick>been more successful has been one that is involved us in seeking <v George Riddick>relationships of reciprocal relationships with larger corporations. <v George Riddick>After all, we - <v John Callaway>But you're not you're not answering, well, you're answering, but it seems to me that <v John Callaway>you're saying that you do not wish to make an issue out of the Michael Jordan - <v George Riddick>No, no. <v John Callaway>For example, the Jordan that he's a friend of yours, etc. <v John Callaway>Anybody else at the table concerned about this? <v George Kalidonis>Let me ask a question. One of the largest concentrations of wealth in the black community <v George Kalidonis>is the athletes, along with entertainers and others. <v George Kalidonis>The history of of ethnic groups in this country is that they bank their own businesses in <v George Kalidonis>the beginning. None of those neighborhood businesses are ever bankable, just not in the <v George Kalidonis>nature of things. Why is it unreasonable to ask Michael Jordan and <v George Kalidonis>others to put a lot of money into a seed capital fund in order to support <v George Kalidonis>entrepreneurship in the neighborhoods? <v John Callaway>And have Nike match? <v Speaker>[Overlapping chatter] <v George Kalidonis> Have Nike match it, absolutely.
<v George Kalidonis>That's the appropriate strategy. <v Barbara Proctor>I think that placing an undue burden <v Barbara Proctor>on a Michael and a Spike that you would not place on a Larry Bird <v Barbara Proctor>or a Bill Friedkin is is simply expanding the <v Barbara Proctor>exploitation that has gone on. <v Barbara Proctor>I do not believe that it is Michael's responsibility alone. <v John Callaway>Unless Michael heard something like this and said yeah that interests me. <v Barbara Proctor>No I agree with that. And I don't want to minimize. <v Barbara Proctor>I think it's an excellent idea. But I think also with men in that capacity <v Barbara Proctor>and earning that money, are few and far between. <v Barbara Proctor>Around them are financial structures and legal structures - <v George Kalidonis>Absolutely agree there. <v Barbara Proctor>Athletes who are not black and who do not always guide them to <v Barbara Proctor>reinvest in their own communities. I think that is important. <v George Riddick>I'm sorry, but one of the things overlooked. I think Barbara's absolutely right. <v George Riddick>But one of the things is overlooked is that a number of black athletes have <v George Riddick>invested in substantial sized firms that
Chicago Tonight
1990 - Excerpts
Producing Organization
WTTW (Television station : Chicago, Ill.)
Contributing Organization
The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia (Athens, Georgia)
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Program Description
This program includes discussions on gun control legislation, the Israel Palestine question, alcohol and tobacco advertising in minority communities, racism in the corporate world, and entrepreneurship in the Black community. All discussions are between John Callaway and one or more guests.
Series Description
"It is easy to demonstrate community service in investigative work which uncovers fraud. More difficult to prove, but just as vital to the community, is programming which stimulates reasoned thought and behavior. CHICAGO TONIGHT WITH JOHN CALLAWAY provides this service -- uniquely -- for the Chicago community. "Because of the reputation for fairness of this broadcast and because of the unique interview skills of John Callaway -- grounded in integrity, a generous curiosity, and an astonishing command of fact -- our community hears revealing conversations on CHICAGO TONIGHT that they hear on no other broadcast. John prods guests on the program to measure their positions against principles such as consistency, reciprocity, and basic freedoms, like those guaranteed in the United States constitution. "We focus on one topic per night, in a 30-minute, live broadcast. The topic must be in the forefront of our viewers' minds. In a city known for its obsession with politics, it is no surprise that, in 1990, almost 40 of our programs were on local politics and another 20 on state and national politics. But our topics range from pro/con on a new domed stadium for the Chicago Bears to the banking crisis. Because members of our community have minds that stretch well beyond Chicago, we cover international events, including -- in 1990 -- nineteen programs on the Persian Gulf Crisis. "Our entry reel begins with segments from three programs on the Gulf crisis, starting with a war/no war debate between Illinois Congressman Henry Hyde and the father of a U.S. marine who opposes going to war in the Mideast. Following are three segments which illustrate our ongoing commitment to fair discussion of the deep concerns regarding race that plague our community."--1990 Peabody Awards entry form.
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Producing Organization: WTTW (Television station : Chicago, Ill.)
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The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia
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Chicago: “Chicago Tonight; 1990 - Excerpts,” 1990, The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed June 28, 2022,
MLA: “Chicago Tonight; 1990 - Excerpts.” 1990. The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. June 28, 2022. <>.
APA: Chicago Tonight; 1990 - Excerpts. Boston, MA: The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from