Encompass; Incarceration or Rehabilitation?

<v Speaker>[music plays]. <v Mike Thomas>It was brought back in 72 and I was <v Mike Thomas>doing quite a bit of drugs at the time and kind of ran out of money and <v Mike Thomas>those are, you know, coming up the ramp now. <v Mike Thomas>And I went out and a couple buddies of mine.

<v Mike Thomas>They knew there was a safe. <v Mike Thomas>So we went out, the three of us, and, I dunno, one was <v Mike Thomas>wrecked from drink in. One was wrecked from pills. <v Mike Thomas>And I just wrecked. <v Mike Thomas>And well, we went out and we busted <v Mike Thomas>into a safe and we burglarized another <v Mike Thomas>place. And well, we got busted for it <v Mike Thomas>right away. And uh, well I got <v Mike Thomas>2 3 year sentences for it. <v Mike Thomas>Once for burglary and once for the safe cracking. <v Charles Leonard>Mike Thomas served his prison sentence at the Wisconsin State Reformatory in Green Bay, <v Charles Leonard>a maximum security prison. <v Charles Leonard>Like most inmates, much of his time was spent contemplating his freedom and an unknown <v Charles Leonard>future. <v Charles Leonard>Thomas was fortunate to find employment upon release, but for most inmates just out

<v Charles Leonard>of prison, unemployment and job discrimination are a hard reality. <v Charles Leonard>There are over 700 men now serving time at the Green Bay Reformatory. <v Charles Leonard>Of those that will be released, one out of five will return to prison within <v Charles Leonard>one year. Why are so many ex-offenders unable to cope with the realities outside <v Charles Leonard>of prison? And what role does the prison serve? <v Charles Leonard>Is it a means of insulating the inmate from society? <v Charles Leonard>Or are we preparing the inmate for the complex problems he will face upon release? <v James Hudson>It's no feelings here. <v James Hudson>You know, this is what I'm trying to express, there's no feelings here. <v James Hudson>You know, you're brought here. <v James Hudson>You were punished. You understand? <v James Hudson>In the courts to do time. <v James Hudson>This is your punishment for the crimes you committed, you know. <v James Hudson>However, it doesn't end there. <v James Hudson>You know, at first when I was- when I was sent, I feel real bad about what <v James Hudson>I'd done, you know.

<v James Hudson>But after I got up here and after all the thing that I've got done to me after two or <v James Hudson>three years, you know, I've got to feel real salty behind that, you know, <v James Hudson>and nobody's caring, you know? <v Thurman Bedford>Oh, this is it. This is it. I think the institution suits you. <v Thurman Bedford>Should supply some type program where you can, say, <v Thurman Bedford>better your own means kind of be able to help yourself in a better way. <v Thurman Bedford>Uh, If you get out, if you're going out <v Thurman Bedford>on school release so, if you're going out on parole and you don't have anything <v Thurman Bedford>but your gate fee in your pocket, man. You know, $50, you know, and then you walking <v Thurman Bedford>up to people trying to find jobs and they're telling you, y- y- you know, you want to be <v Thurman Bedford>honest and you say, well, I just get out the institution, you know, ay man they gonna <v Thurman Bedford>turn you around, you know, kind of hope you expect for this guy. <v Thurman Bedford>You know, he's gonna have to do something, you know. <v Thurman Bedford>And as long as we need money in this world to survive in this <v Thurman Bedford>society, then that's what they're going to have to do. <v Thurman Bedford>Otherwise, the man is, you know, he's doomed.

<v Thurman Bedford>In other words, he's doomed unless he pulls armed robbery or burglary or something. <v Thurman Bedford>Well, something where he can get some money if you don't have a job. <v Thurman Bedford>He's in trouble. He's in trouble. <v Speaker>The prison system of criminal justice is a mixture of past and present philosophies. <v Speaker>Should the purpose of the prison sentence be to rehabilitate those who have been <v Speaker>convicted of a crime or is the sentence a way to isolate and punish <v Speaker>a deterrent to a rapidly growing crime rate? <v Judge James Byers>Well, I think a sentencing judge's responsibility is <v Judge James Byers>to the community and in <v Judge James Byers>exercising that responsibility. <v Judge James Byers>Doing what he can to rehabilitate the defendant. <v Judge James Byers>We must recognize that we cannot keep the average defendant if <v Judge James Byers>he is to be confined in prison for all of his life. <v Judge James Byers>And it's important to try to map out a program that will, uh <v Judge James Byers>rehabilitate that person and get him out into the community as a useful citizen

<v Judge James Byers>so he can support his family, pay his debts and get off of the tax payer's roll <v Judge James Byers>as soon as possible. On the other hand, the sentence must be <v Judge James Byers>commensurate with the offense and the <v Judge James Byers>length of rehabilitation that appears to be necessary. <v James Hudson>So-called rehabilitation programs are not uh preparing me to do anything. <v James Hudson>Matter of fact, I don't think they have a rehabilitation program. <v James Hudson>You know, the only way a person is going to get out of here and reintegrate <v James Hudson>hisself in society successfully is that he makes some progress on his own <v James Hudson>while he's here. He has to take it up on his own. <v Thurman Bedford>Well, I don't- I don't see how the rehabilitat-tative <v Thurman Bedford>programs and the institution could be adequate if you got such a high recidivism <v Thurman Bedford>rate of people coming back all the time. <v Thurman Bedford>I've seen guys maybe three times since I've been here, in the 4 years I've been in an <v Thurman Bedford>institution coming back and leaving again.

<v Thurman Bedford>And its is always the same problem. <v Thurman Bedford>Guys going out even on school release and catching cases. <v Thurman Bedford>One guy pulled an armed robbery while he was on school release. <v Speaker>Many inmates feel that the rehabilitation programs are inadequate and that many of <v Speaker>their needs are ignored. But an increasing number of services are available. <v Speaker>Services to assist with work placement, housing upon release, family, <v Speaker>legal and personal problems. <v Speaker>However, overcrowding and understaffed conditions result in a conflict between the <v Speaker>inmates legitimate needs and unrealistic demands. <v Augustus D'Aloise>These people are impatient as a group. <v Augustus D'Aloise>Impulsive and in many ways immature. <v Augustus D'Aloise>They expect to be heard immediately, if not sooner. <v Augustus D'Aloise>And realistically, we cannot cater to them, uh to <v Augustus D'Aloise>their every whim. <v Augustus D'Aloise>Many times they do have realistic concerns and we try to relate to these concerns as <v Augustus D'Aloise>soon as possible. Unfortunately, we are overcrowded.

<v Augustus D'Aloise>We have too few staff members who are willing and able to listen carefully <v Augustus D'Aloise>to uh, in a counseling situation to what <v Augustus D'Aloise>these individuals are saying. <v Augustus D'Aloise>Because of overcrowded conditions, we can only do so much. <v James Hudson>A person has to help himself, you know, in this his situation <v James Hudson>just as well as out in society. <v James Hudson>You know, God bless the child who has his own type of thing, you understand? <v James Hudson>And if these people, you know, are to continue to <v James Hudson>uh, fool the public, you know, with all this oh, <v James Hudson>rehabilitation nonsense, which does not exist here at this institution, <v James Hudson>then it will continue to risk- recidivism rate will continue to go up. <v James Hudson>You know, because they're not even, they're <v James Hudson>not even, it's not even geared. <v James Hudson>You know, it's not even geared, you know, to try to help an individual, you know, <v James Hudson>restructure his life, you know, and set that person out- back in society, you know,

<v James Hudson>with some type of, some type of trace, some type of skill to, <v James Hudson>for instance, let's take the barber program. <v James Hudson>Even though they even, though they complete the course here, you know, they won't be able <v James Hudson>they won't they are not eligible to work in a, in <v James Hudson>a barber setting, you know, because they can't get the necessary <v James Hudson>license because of them being an ex-offender. <v Judge James Byers>Well, I would think that the role of the prison, of course, <v Judge James Byers>is to incarcerate and hopefully during that process <v Judge James Byers>to rehabilitate. <v Judge James Byers>There are those, of course, who are- indicate that there is little or no <v Judge James Byers>rehabilitation in the prison system. <v Judge James Byers>But I think that that's an exaggeration. <v Judge James Byers>The rehabilitator efforts may not be as great as we would hope, <v Judge James Byers>or as- as great as prison officials would hope. <v Judge James Byers>But nevertheless, I think that they are there.

<v Judge James Byers>And sometimes the mere fact of incarceration and removal from the <v Judge James Byers>circumstances that originally caused the problem tend <v Judge James Byers>themselves to rehabilitate the person. <v Bill Martin>I'm not sure really what processes are involved <v Bill Martin>in rehabilitation. To me rehabilitation is an internal process. <v Bill Martin>I think that perhaps it could be better phrased <v Bill Martin>as responding to motivation <v Bill Martin>towards a social adjustment. <v Bill Martin>Are they adequate? <v Bill Martin>There are an awful lot of programs that are existing now that we're not <v Bill Martin>existing 10 or 20 years ago. <v Bill Martin>Whether they are adequate or not, I'm I really couldn't say. <v Bill Martin>But there certainly are adequate uh, an adequate number of programs for the <v Bill Martin>residents to get involved with if they have the motivating factor

<v Bill Martin>involved in them. <v Bill Martin>I feel very, very much that rehabilitation as a personal process <v Bill Martin>and that generally comes, in my own particular case, I was in prison almost 18 <v Bill Martin>years at various prisons for various lengths of time. <v Bill Martin>I'm not sure that I really quote rehabilitated or was rehabilitated. <v Bill Martin>I think that I came to a realization that for me, the answer lay in another direction <v Bill Martin>than behind for prison walls. <v Bill Martin>I think, as Jim Hudson said, that <v Bill Martin>the answer lies within everybody. <v Charles Leonard>The number of the rehabitation programs here at the reformatory adequate, <v Charles Leonard>to your mind. <v Elmer Cady>Well I think they're adequate, that's probably the word to use.

<v Elmer Cady>I would like to see an improvement. <v Elmer Cady>But I think that in terms of training for skills and academic <v Elmer Cady>kinds of training, I think we're doing an incredibly good job. <v Charles Leonard>How would you improve? <v Elmer Cady>I think that what we need uh, is capable to do of placing these ?inaudible? <v Elmer Cady>Developing job resources. <v Elmer Cady>This is a very real deficiency. <v Elmer Cady>Most of the institutions in this state and in this type of institution in the country. <v Charles Leonard>How would you go about this now? Because you're- you're dealing with another segment of <v Charles Leonard>the public that you've got to interest in your program. <v Charles Leonard>You can't just obviously go out, do this on your own. <v Elmer Cady>No, I think that what we've got to do is to. <v Elmer Cady>Use a hackneyed term, educate the public. <v Elmer Cady>I think that we have to also, educate private industry <v Elmer Cady>that these are capable people that we can train <v Elmer Cady>and train them well, that many of them have strengths and abilities that <v Elmer Cady>can be used by private industry.

<v Charles Leonard>Now you have, as every person does, problems with... <v Charles Leonard>The return rate. Is this because of the lack of adequate jobs <v Charles Leonard>to place people in or are there other reasons for that? <v Elmer Cady>I think that the lack of jobs is one of the big factors <v Elmer Cady>that there are a lot of other reasons. And obviously many of these individuals, although <v Elmer Cady>trained and capable, capable of performing the job, have emotion. <v Elmer Cady>Personality problems that caused them to fail on the job <v Elmer Cady>market. It's like any other group of people, I suppose <v Elmer Cady>as you get down to the individuals, you see strength, you see weaknesses. <v Charles Leonard>About the re- rehabilitation programs to reintegrate the inmates <v Charles Leonard>back into their families. I- I would imagine that that's <v Charles Leonard>a difficult thing to do. <v Elmer Cady>It's a very difficult thing because as you know from being in here, men live <v Elmer Cady>by the numbers. It's a rather structured kind of living. <v Elmer Cady>I think that what we need in this state, and in many states around the country

<v Elmer Cady>is a workable furlough bill. <v Elmer Cady>Where people can go home at different phases of their incarcerated period. <v Elmer Cady>And reacquaint themselves with their family or neighborhood and area and then come <v Elmer Cady>back in and go back out again and not lose the contact with the family. <v Elmer Cady>I think that's a very important aspect to this work. <v Elmer Cady>Total isolation for many years is very <v Elmer Cady>deteriorating, has a deteriorating effect on the individual's morale. <v Charles Leonard>Does the parole system as we know it today work well? <v Elmer Cady>It works much better than most people think. <v Elmer Cady>In this state, we did a study which was two years ago, those men on a <v Elmer Cady>waiting list and seventy nine percent. <v Elmer Cady>Were followed a year later, we're still being successful under <v Elmer Cady>supervision and parole, which means that we're averaging about a 19 percent failure <v Elmer Cady>rate, which really isn't always there.

<v Elmer Cady>It's not good. We would hope it would be better. <v Elmer Cady>It's not as bad as some people say it's. <v Charles Leonard>Morton How much of a factor is disillusionment in <v Charles Leonard>the recurrence rate? People get- get out of here, they get back home, they become <v Charles Leonard>disillusioned because they can't get a job, they've become disillusioned because they <v Charles Leonard>can't get back into their family or they're having difficulty. <v Charles Leonard>Is that a big factor? <v Elmer Cady>I think it's a factor and probably I would say it is a big factor. <v Elmer Cady>I think that these institutions provide a certain degree of security by <v Elmer Cady>meeting practically all of the needs of the men. <v Elmer Cady>While they're in here and then they develop some apprehension about what it's gonna <v Elmer Cady>be like when they get out there and sometimes some of their worst fears are realized. <v Elmer Cady>They apply for jobs. And when someone finds out they've done time, they don't <v Elmer Cady>get the job or girlfriends or wives have gone

<v Elmer Cady>in a different direction. That's disillusioning and frustrating, and very difficult thing <v Elmer Cady>to handle. So these are some of the things that I feel can <v Elmer Cady>and do contribute to someone failing unbelievably ?inaudible?. <v Bill Martin>We have feelings that the recidivism rate is being lessened through self-help, <v Bill Martin>though only to a small degree. We have less than 100 clients, so we-we're <v Bill Martin>not gonna have a big impact on any system containing thousands of people. <v Bill Martin>But our clients hopefully will make it a little easier. <v Bill Martin>It may be just as tough, but at least they're aware of what they're getting into and <v Bill Martin>they're prepared for it. Many times a man is not prepared. <v Bill Martin>He does not plan beyond the point of- of having a parole board say, yes, <v Bill Martin>we're going to grant you a parole and you'll be free in two weeks. <v Bill Martin>And at that point, maybe he begins planning for what he's going to do after he gets <v Bill Martin>through the door. In self-help we like to prepare him for that contingency <v Bill Martin>and hope that he realizes that there's, there's more to a parole

<v Bill Martin>than walking out through the door. Everything is not going to be rosy then, and it <v Bill Martin>becomes a matter of a lot of very hard work sometimes. <v Bill Martin>Self-help was founded by a group or three ex-offenders about 10 years <v Bill Martin>ago. It was founded with a- with the idea that it would make <v Bill Martin>a parole experience more meaningful and more a learning experience <v Bill Martin>than merely reporting to an agent. <v Bill Martin>At the time of inception of became a prison ministry program with a highly religious and <v Bill Martin>moral regeneration theme. <v Bill Martin>We still have the moral regeneration theme involved in our programs. <v Bill Martin>But the religious emphasis of the program has been downplayed <v Bill Martin>in the interests of helping the men on a pragmatic level <v Bill Martin>during their incarceration to try to inspire or <v Bill Martin>to emphasize that commitment that they had to getting out and staying <v Bill Martin>out. I generally tell them that because society as

<v Bill Martin>a homogenous group owes them nothing, that they have to work for what they're going to <v Bill Martin>get and to expect hard time. You know, Jobs are very difficult to come <v Bill Martin>by. Um they're expected to perform as if they were any other employee <v Bill Martin>and that if they don't perform, that the employer will <v Bill Martin>generally lay them off and hire somebody else to do the job. <v Bill Martin>It's a matter of being realistic as well about the salary level. <v Bill Martin>It's a nice thought to have a job that pays you ten, eleven dollars an hour. <v Bill Martin>But more realistically, most jobs, even the, the trades, the vocational <v Bill Martin>jobs where you need a lot of experience, still pay <v Bill Martin>in the areas of four to five dollars an hour and the entry level positions, <v Bill Martin>which are basically the ones that we try to find <v Bill Martin>for the men are generally playing- paying minimum wage and <v Bill Martin>that the best that they can hope for is to get some kind of a job. <v Bill Martin>And whether it be pumping gas in a gas station, sweeping floors, washing

<v Bill Martin>dishes, whatever it is, it's- it's a good job to have <v Bill Martin>while you're looking for another job. <v Bill Martin>And if you can get some kind of skills while you're in prison, you have a much better <v Bill Martin>chance of getting a better job. <v Mike Thomas>For the most part, inmates when you talk about jobs, they say they <v Mike Thomas>dont look forward to looking forward to a job because they know that uh, like a lot of <v Mike Thomas>the employers don't want them because they've got criminal records. <v Mike Thomas>They've been in jail. They're afraid that the people are either going to come there and <v Mike Thomas>rip them off or they might work a week or two and leave. <v Mike Thomas>So they figured the employers don't want 'em to begin with. <v Mike Thomas>And uh, they figure that the people that do give 'em a job probably <v Mike Thomas>be one of the lowest ones on a totem pole, some job that's the worst <v Mike Thomas>one in the plant that they couldn't get anybody else to take. <v Mike Thomas>Well, in a lot of people, they go down to apply for a job after they've gotten out of <v Mike Thomas>prison. They get you- you get to the part that says have you been arrested?

<v Mike Thomas>And what did you do? Well, a lot of the inmates, they won't bother filling in <v Mike Thomas>that because they want their job. <v Mike Thomas>They need the job to pay their bills. <v Mike Thomas>They don't feel like going back to jail. I mean, who wants to go to jail? <v Mike Thomas>And so he's sitting there worrying that you're going to find out that he was <v Mike Thomas>in jail. He's worrying about how long he's going to have that job that he's got. <v Mike Thomas>There's no way the man wants to go back to jail. <v Mike Thomas>And to be fair about it. <v Mike Thomas>I mean, all you can do is give this man- give this man a shot. <v Mike Thomas>Give him a chance at that job. <v James Hudson>Let's see, if I'm qualified to do a job, you know. <v James Hudson>And I- I can demonstrate, you know, I'd demonstrate that ability to do <v James Hudson>the job well, which is what the employer wants. <v James Hudson>You see what I'm saying? I don't feel that uh, my past, you know, <v James Hudson>mistakes or mistake, whatever, you know, should

<v James Hudson>be a determining factor in my not getting the job. <v James Hudson>This is all I'm saying. Give me a fair shot at it. <v James Hudson>You see, this is all I want. <v James Hudson>I want a fair shot. <v Bill Martin>Generally, the ex-offenders are better employees. <v Bill Martin>That's number one. Number two is the fact that it costs the taxpayers <v Bill Martin>of this state approximately 15 thousand dollars a year to keep a man <v Bill Martin>in prison. It's only good business sense. <v Bill Martin>Aside from the humanitarian point of view, it's only good business sense that <v Bill Martin>if we feel a man is ready for release, that we should at least feel <v Bill Martin>uh, that we have a strong enough investment in him after <v Bill Martin>two, three or four years in prison to try to keep <v Bill Martin>him out of prison and make him into a taxpayer <v Bill Martin>and save that fifteen thousand a year. <v Bill Martin>Channel that- rechannel those resources into other areas where they could be better put <v Bill Martin>to use other than building bigger and better prisons.

<v Augustus D'Aloise>When I try to convey to the resident before he leaves that uh, <v Augustus D'Aloise>all is not peaches and cream out there. That what he's going to have to do is demonstrate <v Augustus D'Aloise>to himself and to others that his intentions are honorable. <v Augustus D'Aloise>And that he has every desire to adapt um, <v Augustus D'Aloise>without serious conflict, without posing a problem to himself <v Augustus D'Aloise>and others. And certainly in the area of employment, the individual <v Augustus D'Aloise>should not go out with- with the- with a conviction <v Augustus D'Aloise>that the world owes him a living. <v Augustus D'Aloise>And what he's going to have to do is try to use whatever skills he has, to the best <v Augustus D'Aloise>of his ability and with or without help. <v Augustus D'Aloise>He will be held accountable for what he does. <v Augustus D'Aloise>And we anticipate that he will behave responsibly. <v Augustus D'Aloise>That if he needs help, he will seek help in the proper way from the <v Augustus D'Aloise>probation parole agent who will have supervision responsibility or from other- from <v Augustus D'Aloise>others in the community may be in the position to help.

<v Augustus D'Aloise>It's his responsibility to seek help. <v Augustus D'Aloise>If he doesn't, the individual responsible for supervision, the <v Augustus D'Aloise>probation parole agent will confront him. <v Augustus D'Aloise>And will help him understand that there are certain obligations and responsibility he has <v Augustus D'Aloise>with respect to employment, uh just plain dealing with people that he <v Augustus D'Aloise>will have to meet. <v Augustus D'Aloise>Otherwise, he will pay a price. <v Thurman Bedford>Generally, the residents leave this institution uh, are afraid. <v Thurman Bedford>You know, they want to go home, but they are afraid because they know they can hold <v Thurman Bedford>the trivial and, and the uh, the dangers <v Thurman Bedford>of society. The society is not structured to help them in any way or <v Thurman Bedford>to realize that they paid their time or did their crime for the crime they did. <v Thurman Bedford>I would say that in this case, the resident or inmate, leaving this institution have to <v Thurman Bedford>be self-confident yet, they have a lot of self-awareness and know about <v Thurman Bedford>his mobilitie and his, his uh capabilities and exercise them

<v Thurman Bedford>to the fullest extent. Otherwise, he surely gonna get stepped on. <v James Hudson>What I'm trying to do now is uh, give me a sense of direction. <v James Hudson>I need a sense of direction, foundations, something I can, something solid, <v James Hudson>something concrete I can stand on, you know? <v James Hudson>I can't stand on the uh, you know, the- I've already. <v James Hudson>Most inmates, when they come to the penitentiary they've already demonstrated the <v James Hudson>inability to accept responsibility and things, you see, and uh <v James Hudson>that, I have to say, was my, you know, problem. <v James Hudson>Quote, unquote. <v James Hudson>And um, now I think I've gotten myself together whereas <v James Hudson>I can become an asset rather than a liability, you know, to the community, I am, you <v James Hudson>know, released to. <v James Hudson>However, studying. <v James Hudson>You know, going to school every day. <v James Hudson>Just another. That's not gonna- that's not gonna feed me. <v James Hudson>It's not going to clothe me. You know, studying in itself, you see.

<v James Hudson>So I'm I have to find some way that I can, I can market, you know, these this knowledge <v James Hudson>that I have obtained while I've, you know, been incarcerated. <v James Hudson>And I'm quite sure it's gonna be difficult. <v James Hudson>But this prison, you know, <v James Hudson>has inherent qualities that make- that make a person want- that makes a person uh, <v James Hudson>able to withstand a lot of pressure. <v James Hudson>You see what I'm saying? So I'll be able to- whatever they come with out there, you know, <v James Hudson>it won't be you know, it'll be- it's tenfold in here, you see. <v James Hudson>So I'll be able to- I'll be able to deal with it and hopefully I'll be successful. <v Gary Drago>I've written this article and um, it was <v Gary Drago>a rainy day. And I just wanted to put my thoughts <v Gary Drago>on paper. So I- I want to read it. <v Gary Drago>It's called Free Expression. <v Gary Drago>Here I sit, bored to hell as usual. <v Gary Drago>I'm trying my damndest to understand this helpful situation I'm in and figure

<v Gary Drago>out how I'm supposed to benefit from it. <v Gary Drago>However, no solid bases can be drawn. <v Gary Drago>Life's meaning has temporarily terminated. <v Gary Drago>All I'm allowed to do is exist. <v Gary Drago>So I continue to strive day after day. <v Gary Drago>The only reason I can explain and convey to another person for my continual strive <v Gary Drago>is that I know for a fact. <v Gary Drago>Someday in the future I can put this person's existence behind me <v Gary Drago>and have what's left of my life back. <v Gary Drago>When that finally arrives, I'll feel happiness within. <v Gary Drago>But what type of person will I be? <v Gary Drago>A person of warmth, kindness and love? <v Gary Drago>No, I don't think so. You see, with each passing day, that- the feeling <v Gary Drago>of that nature dies a little bit more. <v Gary Drago>Each day I become more and more colder within. <v Gary Drago>The hatred continues to grow. <v Gary Drago>It's starting to show an outward personality. <v Gary Drago>I've tried and tried to fight the hatred and bitterness, but it's a fight

<v Gary Drago>I continue to lose. The years have taken their toll. <v Gary Drago>The loneliness, hatred, bitterness that surrounds a confined man constantly <v Gary Drago>has gotten inside of me and is slowly but surely turning my heart <v Gary Drago>from a bright, glowing, lively flame to a flicker. <v Gary Drago>How much longer before that flicker is extinguished completely? <v Gary Drago>When I was placed in prison. <v Gary Drago>There were many, many people that I loved, respected and appreciated. <v Gary Drago>But now I can count them on one hand and have some fingers left uncounted. <v Gary Drago>There was a time when it could be said that I was improving and making good use of my <v Gary Drago>time. Now it's abuse I receive from the people that are supposed...ly <v Gary Drago>Here to help me and know what's best for me. <v Gary Drago>Well, they are wrong and give me more of a runaround. <v Gary Drago>And actual will help me- actually help me. <v Gary Drago>And they call it rehabilitation to these people. <v Gary Drago>I say before you can help a confined man or woman. <v Gary Drago>You have to know what is really best for that person as an individual.

<v Gary Drago>Until then, you remain more of a failure than the criminal. <v Gary Drago>Instead of always telling a person what's best for them, why don't you try asking? <v Gary Drago>Communication can help. ... That's it. <v Speaker>[indistinct talking]