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<v Speaker>[music plays]. <v Mike Thomas>It was brought back in 72 and I was <v Mike Thomas>doing quite a bit of drugs at the time and kind of ran out of money and <v Mike Thomas>those are, you know, coming up the ramp now.
<v Mike Thomas>And I went out and a couple buddies of mine. <v Mike Thomas>They knew there was a safe. <v Mike Thomas>So we went out, the three of us, and, I dunno, one was <v Mike Thomas>wrecked from drink in. One was wrecked from pills. <v Mike Thomas>And I just wrecked. <v Mike Thomas>And well, we went out and we busted <v Mike Thomas>into a safe and we burglarized another <v Mike Thomas>place. And well, we got busted for it <v Mike Thomas>right away. And uh, well I got <v Mike Thomas>2 3 year sentences for it. <v Mike Thomas>Once for burglary and once for the safe cracking. <v Charles Leonard>Mike Thomas served his prison sentence at the Wisconsin State Reformatory in Green Bay, <v Charles Leonard>a maximum security prison. <v Charles Leonard>Like most inmates, much of his time was spent contemplating his freedom and an unknown <v Charles Leonard>future.
<v Charles Leonard>Thomas was fortunate to find employment upon release, but for most inmates just out <v Charles Leonard>of prison, unemployment and job discrimination are a hard reality. <v Charles Leonard>There are over 700 men now serving time at the Green Bay Reformatory. <v Charles Leonard>Of those that will be released, one out of five will return to prison within <v Charles Leonard>one year. Why are so many ex-offenders unable to cope with the realities outside <v Charles Leonard>of prison? And what role does the prison serve? <v Charles Leonard>Is it a means of insulating the inmate from society? <v Charles Leonard>Or are we preparing the inmate for the complex problems he will face upon release? <v James Hudson>It's no feelings here. <v James Hudson>You know, this is what I'm trying to express, there's no feelings here. <v James Hudson>You know, you're brought here. <v James Hudson>You were punished. You understand? <v James Hudson>In the courts to do time. <v James Hudson>This is your punishment for the crimes you committed, you know. <v James Hudson>However, it doesn't end there. <v James Hudson>You know, at first when I was- when I was sent, I feel real bad about what
<v James Hudson>I'd done, you know. <v James Hudson>But after I got up here and after all the thing that I've got done to me after two or <v James Hudson>three years, you know, I've got to feel real salty behind that, you know, <v James Hudson>and nobody's caring, you know? <v Thurman Bedford>Oh, this is it. This is it. I think the institution suits you. <v Thurman Bedford>Should supply some type program where you can, say, <v Thurman Bedford>better your own means kind of be able to help yourself in a better way. <v Thurman Bedford>Uh, If you get out, if you're going out <v Thurman Bedford>on school release so, if you're going out on parole and you don't have anything <v Thurman Bedford>but your gate fee in your pocket, man. You know, $50, you know, and then you walking <v Thurman Bedford>up to people trying to find jobs and they're telling you, y- y- you know, you want to be <v Thurman Bedford>honest and you say, well, I just get out the institution, you know, ay man they gonna <v Thurman Bedford>turn you around, you know, kind of hope you expect for this guy. <v Thurman Bedford>You know, he's gonna have to do something, you know. <v Thurman Bedford>And as long as we need money in this world to survive in this <v Thurman Bedford>society, then that's what they're going to have to do.
<v Thurman Bedford>Otherwise, the man is, you know, he's doomed. <v Thurman Bedford>In other words, he's doomed unless he pulls armed robbery or burglary or something. <v Thurman Bedford>Well, something where he can get some money if you don't have a job. <v Thurman Bedford>He's in trouble. He's in trouble. <v Speaker>The prison system of criminal justice is a mixture of past and present philosophies. <v Speaker>Should the purpose of the prison sentence be to rehabilitate those who have been <v Speaker>convicted of a crime or is the sentence a way to isolate and punish <v Speaker>a deterrent to a rapidly growing crime rate? <v Judge James Byers>Well, I think a sentencing judge's responsibility is <v Judge James Byers>to the community and in <v Judge James Byers>exercising that responsibility. <v Judge James Byers>Doing what he can to rehabilitate the defendant. <v Judge James Byers>We must recognize that we cannot keep the average defendant if <v Judge James Byers>he is to be confined in prison for all of his life. <v Judge James Byers>And it's important to try to map out a program that will, uh
<v Judge James Byers>rehabilitate that person and get him out into the community as a useful citizen <v Judge James Byers>so he can support his family, pay his debts and get off of the tax payer's roll <v Judge James Byers>as soon as possible. On the other hand, the sentence must be <v Judge James Byers>commensurate with the offense and the <v Judge James Byers>length of rehabilitation that appears to be necessary. <v James Hudson>So-called rehabilitation programs are not uh preparing me to do anything. <v James Hudson>Matter of fact, I don't think they have a rehabilitation program. <v James Hudson>You know, the only way a person is going to get out of here and reintegrate <v James Hudson>hisself in society successfully is that he makes some progress on his own <v James Hudson>while he's here. He has to take it up on his own. <v Thurman Bedford>Well, I don't- I don't see how the rehabilitat-tative <v Thurman Bedford>programs and the institution could be adequate if you got such a high recidivism <v Thurman Bedford>rate of people coming back all the time. <v Thurman Bedford>I've seen guys maybe three times since I've been here, in the 4 years I've been in an
<v Thurman Bedford>institution coming back and leaving again. <v Thurman Bedford>And its is always the same problem. <v Thurman Bedford>Guys going out even on school release and catching cases. <v Thurman Bedford>One guy pulled an armed robbery while he was on school release. <v Speaker>Many inmates feel that the rehabilitation programs are inadequate and that many of <v Speaker>their needs are ignored. But an increasing number of services are available. <v Speaker>Services to assist with work placement, housing upon release, family, <v Speaker>legal and personal problems. <v Speaker>However, overcrowding and understaffed conditions result in a conflict between the <v Speaker>inmates legitimate needs and unrealistic demands. <v Augustus D'Aloise>These people are impatient as a group. <v Augustus D'Aloise>Impulsive and in many ways immature. <v Augustus D'Aloise>They expect to be heard immediately, if not sooner. <v Augustus D'Aloise>And realistically, we cannot cater to them, uh to <v Augustus D'Aloise>their every whim. <v Augustus D'Aloise>Many times they do have realistic concerns and we try to relate to these concerns as
<v Augustus D'Aloise>soon as possible. Unfortunately, we are overcrowded. <v Augustus D'Aloise>We have too few staff members who are willing and able to listen carefully <v Augustus D'Aloise>to uh, in a counseling situation to what <v Augustus D'Aloise>these individuals are saying. <v Augustus D'Aloise>Because of overcrowded conditions, we can only do so much. <v James Hudson>A person has to help himself, you know, in this his situation <v James Hudson>just as well as out in society. <v James Hudson>You know, God bless the child who has his own type of thing, you understand? <v James Hudson>And if these people, you know, are to continue to <v James Hudson>uh, fool the public, you know, with all this oh, <v James Hudson>rehabilitation nonsense, which does not exist here at this institution, <v James Hudson>then it will continue to risk- recidivism rate will continue to go up. <v James Hudson>You know, because they're not even, they're <v James Hudson>not even, it's not even geared. <v James Hudson>You know, it's not even geared, you know, to try to help an individual, you know,
<v James Hudson>restructure his life, you know, and set that person out- back in society, you know, <v James Hudson>with some type of, some type of trace, some type of skill to, <v James Hudson>for instance, let's take the barber program. <v James Hudson>Even though they even, though they complete the course here, you know, they won't be able <v James Hudson>they won't they are not eligible to work in a, in <v James Hudson>a barber setting, you know, because they can't get the necessary <v James Hudson>license because of them being an ex-offender. <v Judge James Byers>Well, I would think that the role of the prison, of course, <v Judge James Byers>is to incarcerate and hopefully during that process <v Judge James Byers>to rehabilitate. <v Judge James Byers>There are those, of course, who are- indicate that there is little or no <v Judge James Byers>rehabilitation in the prison system. <v Judge James Byers>But I think that that's an exaggeration. <v Judge James Byers>The rehabilitator efforts may not be as great as we would hope, <v Judge James Byers>or as- as great as prison officials would hope.
<v Judge James Byers>But nevertheless, I think that they are there. <v Judge James Byers>And sometimes the mere fact of incarceration and removal from the <v Judge James Byers>circumstances that originally caused the problem tend <v Judge James Byers>themselves to rehabilitate the person. <v Bill Martin>I'm not sure really what processes are involved <v Bill Martin>in rehabilitation. To me rehabilitation is an internal process. <v Bill Martin>I think that perhaps it could be better phrased <v Bill Martin>as responding to motivation <v Bill Martin>towards a social adjustment. <v Bill Martin>Are they adequate? <v Bill Martin>There are an awful lot of programs that are existing now that we're not <v Bill Martin>existing 10 or 20 years ago. <v Bill Martin>Whether they are adequate or not, I'm I really couldn't say. <v Bill Martin>But there certainly are adequate uh, an adequate number of programs for the
<v Bill Martin>residents to get involved with if they have the motivating factor <v Bill Martin>involved in them. <v Bill Martin>I feel very, very much that rehabilitation as a personal process <v Bill Martin>and that generally comes, in my own particular case, I was in prison almost 18 <v Bill Martin>years at various prisons for various lengths of time. <v Bill Martin>I'm not sure that I really quote rehabilitated or was rehabilitated. <v Bill Martin>I think that I came to a realization that for me, the answer lay in another direction <v Bill Martin>than behind for prison walls. <v Bill Martin>I think, as Jim Hudson said, that <v Bill Martin>the answer lies within everybody. <v Charles Leonard>The number of the rehabitation programs here at the reformatory adequate, <v Charles Leonard>to your mind.
<v Elmer Cady>Well I think they're adequate, that's probably the word to use. <v Elmer Cady>I would like to see an improvement. <v Elmer Cady>But I think that in terms of training for skills and academic <v Elmer Cady>kinds of training, I think we're doing an incredibly good job. <v Charles Leonard>How would you improve? <v Elmer Cady>I think that what we need uh, is capable to do of placing these ?inaudible? <v Elmer Cady>Developing job resources. <v Elmer Cady>This is a very real deficiency. <v Elmer Cady>Most of the institutions in this state and in this type of institution in the country. <v Charles Leonard>How would you go about this now? Because you're- you're dealing with another segment of <v Charles Leonard>the public that you've got to interest in your program. <v Charles Leonard>You can't just obviously go out, do this on your own. <v Elmer Cady>No, I think that what we've got to do is to. <v Elmer Cady>Use a hackneyed term, educate the public. <v Elmer Cady>I think that we have to also, educate private industry <v Elmer Cady>that these are capable people that we can train <v Elmer Cady>and train them well, that many of them have strengths and abilities that
<v Elmer Cady>can be used by private industry. <v Charles Leonard>Now you have, as every person does, problems with... <v Charles Leonard>The return rate. Is this because of the lack of adequate jobs <v Charles Leonard>to place people in or are there other reasons for that? <v Elmer Cady>I think that the lack of jobs is one of the big factors <v Elmer Cady>that there are a lot of other reasons. And obviously many of these individuals, although <v Elmer Cady>trained and capable, capable of performing the job, have emotion. <v Elmer Cady>Personality problems that caused them to fail on the job <v Elmer Cady>market. It's like any other group of people, I suppose <v Elmer Cady>as you get down to the individuals, you see strength, you see weaknesses. <v Charles Leonard>About the re- rehabilitation programs to reintegrate the inmates <v Charles Leonard>back into their families. I- I would imagine that that's <v Charles Leonard>a difficult thing to do. <v Elmer Cady>It's a very difficult thing because as you know from being in here, men live <v Elmer Cady>by the numbers. It's a rather structured kind of living.
<v Elmer Cady>I think that what we need in this state, and in many states around the country <v Elmer Cady>is a workable furlough bill. <v Elmer Cady>Where people can go home at different phases of their incarcerated period. <v Elmer Cady>And reacquaint themselves with their family or neighborhood and area and then come <v Elmer Cady>back in and go back out again and not lose the contact with the family. <v Elmer Cady>I think that's a very important aspect to this work. <v Elmer Cady>Total isolation for many years is very <v Elmer Cady>deteriorating, has a deteriorating effect on the individual's morale. <v Charles Leonard>Does the parole system as we know it today work well? <v Elmer Cady>It works much better than most people think. <v Elmer Cady>In this state, we did a study which was two years ago, those men on a <v Elmer Cady>waiting list and seventy nine percent. <v Elmer Cady>Were followed a year later, we're still being successful under <v Elmer Cady>supervision and parole, which means that we're averaging about a 19 percent failure
<v Elmer Cady>rate, which really isn't always there. <v Elmer Cady>It's not good. We would hope it would be better. <v Elmer Cady>It's not as bad as some people say it's. <v Charles Leonard>Morton How much of a factor is disillusionment in <v Charles Leonard>the recurrence rate? People get- get out of here, they get back home, they become <v Charles Leonard>disillusioned because they can't get a job, they've become disillusioned because they <v Charles Leonard>can't get back into their family or they're having difficulty. <v Charles Leonard>Is that a big factor? <v Elmer Cady>I think it's a factor and probably I would say it is a big factor. <v Elmer Cady>I think that these institutions provide a certain degree of security by <v Elmer Cady>meeting practically all of the needs of the men. <v Elmer Cady>While they're in here and then they develop some apprehension about what it's gonna <v Elmer Cady>be like when they get out there and sometimes some of their worst fears are realized. <v Elmer Cady>They apply for jobs. And when someone finds out they've done time, they don't
<v Elmer Cady>get the job or girlfriends or wives have gone <v Elmer Cady>in a different direction. That's disillusioning and frustrating, and very difficult thing <v Elmer Cady>to handle. So these are some of the things that I feel can <v Elmer Cady>and do contribute to someone failing unbelievably ?inaudible?. <v Bill Martin>We have feelings that the recidivism rate is being lessened through self-help, <v Bill Martin>though only to a small degree. We have less than 100 clients, so we-we're <v Bill Martin>not gonna have a big impact on any system containing thousands of people. <v Bill Martin>But our clients hopefully will make it a little easier. <v Bill Martin>It may be just as tough, but at least they're aware of what they're getting into and <v Bill Martin>they're prepared for it. Many times a man is not prepared. <v Bill Martin>He does not plan beyond the point of- of having a parole board say, yes, <v Bill Martin>we're going to grant you a parole and you'll be free in two weeks. <v Bill Martin>And at that point, maybe he begins planning for what he's going to do after he gets <v Bill Martin>through the door. In self-help we like to prepare him for that contingency
<v Bill Martin>and hope that he realizes that there's, there's more to a parole <v Bill Martin>than walking out through the door. Everything is not going to be rosy then, and it <v Bill Martin>becomes a matter of a lot of very hard work sometimes. <v Bill Martin>Self-help was founded by a group or three ex-offenders about 10 years <v Bill Martin>ago. It was founded with a- with the idea that it would make <v Bill Martin>a parole experience more meaningful and more a learning experience <v Bill Martin>than merely reporting to an agent. <v Bill Martin>At the time of inception of became a prison ministry program with a highly religious and <v Bill Martin>moral regeneration theme. <v Bill Martin>We still have the moral regeneration theme involved in our programs. <v Bill Martin>But the religious emphasis of the program has been downplayed <v Bill Martin>in the interests of helping the men on a pragmatic level <v Bill Martin>during their incarceration to try to inspire or <v Bill Martin>to emphasize that commitment that they had to getting out and staying
<v Bill Martin>out. I generally tell them that because society as <v Bill Martin>a homogenous group owes them nothing, that they have to work for what they're going to <v Bill Martin>get and to expect hard time. You know, Jobs are very difficult to come <v Bill Martin>by. Um they're expected to perform as if they were any other employee <v Bill Martin>and that if they don't perform, that the employer will <v Bill Martin>generally lay them off and hire somebody else to do the job. <v Bill Martin>It's a matter of being realistic as well about the salary level. <v Bill Martin>It's a nice thought to have a job that pays you ten, eleven dollars an hour. <v Bill Martin>But more realistically, most jobs, even the, the trades, the vocational <v Bill Martin>jobs where you need a lot of experience, still pay <v Bill Martin>in the areas of four to five dollars an hour and the entry level positions, <v Bill Martin>which are basically the ones that we try to find <v Bill Martin>for the men are generally playing- paying minimum wage and <v Bill Martin>that the best that they can hope for is to get some kind of a job.
<v Bill Martin>And whether it be pumping gas in a gas station, sweeping floors, washing <v Bill Martin>dishes, whatever it is, it's- it's a good job to have <v Bill Martin>while you're looking for another job. <v Bill Martin>And if you can get some kind of skills while you're in prison, you have a much better <v Bill Martin>chance of getting a better job. <v Mike Thomas>For the most part, inmates when you talk about jobs, they say they <v Mike Thomas>dont look forward to looking forward to a job because they know that uh, like a lot of <v Mike Thomas>the employers don't want them because they've got criminal records. <v Mike Thomas>They've been in jail. They're afraid that the people are either going to come there and <v Mike Thomas>rip them off or they might work a week or two and leave. <v Mike Thomas>So they figured the employers don't want 'em to begin with. <v Mike Thomas>And uh, they figure that the people that do give 'em a job probably <v Mike Thomas>be one of the lowest ones on a totem pole, some job that's the worst <v Mike Thomas>one in the plant that they couldn't get anybody else to take. <v Mike Thomas>Well, in a lot of people, they go down to apply for a job after they've gotten out of
<v Mike Thomas>prison. They get you- you get to the part that says have you been arrested? <v Mike Thomas>And what did you do? Well, a lot of the inmates, they won't bother filling in <v Mike Thomas>that because they want their job. <v Mike Thomas>They need the job to pay their bills. <v Mike Thomas>They don't feel like going back to jail. I mean, who wants to go to jail? <v Mike Thomas>And so he's sitting there worrying that you're going to find out that he was <v Mike Thomas>in jail. He's worrying about how long he's going to have that job that he's got. <v Mike Thomas>There's no way the man wants to go back to jail. <v Mike Thomas>And to be fair about it. <v Mike Thomas>I mean, all you can do is give this man- give this man a shot. <v Mike Thomas>Give him a chance at that job. <v James Hudson>Let's see, if I'm qualified to do a job, you know. <v James Hudson>And I- I can demonstrate, you know, I'd demonstrate that ability to do <v James Hudson>the job well, which is what the employer wants. <v James Hudson>You see what I'm saying? I don't feel that uh, my past, you know,
<v James Hudson>mistakes or mistake, whatever, you know, should <v James Hudson>be a determining factor in my not getting the job. <v James Hudson>This is all I'm saying. Give me a fair shot at it. <v James Hudson>You see, this is all I want. <v James Hudson>I want a fair shot. <v Bill Martin>Generally, the ex-offenders are better employees. <v Bill Martin>That's number one. Number two is the fact that it costs the taxpayers <v Bill Martin>of this state approximately 15 thousand dollars a year to keep a man <v Bill Martin>in prison. It's only good business sense. <v Bill Martin>Aside from the humanitarian point of view, it's only good business sense that <v Bill Martin>if we feel a man is ready for release, that we should at least feel <v Bill Martin>uh, that we have a strong enough investment in him after <v Bill Martin>two, three or four years in prison to try to keep <v Bill Martin>him out of prison and make him into a taxpayer <v Bill Martin>and save that fifteen thousand a year. <v Bill Martin>Channel that- rechannel those resources into other areas where they could be better put
<v Bill Martin>to use other than building bigger and better prisons. <v Augustus D'Aloise>When I try to convey to the resident before he leaves that uh, <v Augustus D'Aloise>all is not peaches and cream out there. That what he's going to have to do is demonstrate <v Augustus D'Aloise>to himself and to others that his intentions are honorable. <v Augustus D'Aloise>And that he has every desire to adapt um, <v Augustus D'Aloise>without serious conflict, without posing a problem to himself <v Augustus D'Aloise>and others. And certainly in the area of employment, the individual <v Augustus D'Aloise>should not go out with- with the- with a conviction <v Augustus D'Aloise>that the world owes him a living. <v Augustus D'Aloise>And what he's going to have to do is try to use whatever skills he has, to the best <v Augustus D'Aloise>of his ability and with or without help. <v Augustus D'Aloise>He will be held accountable for what he does. <v Augustus D'Aloise>And we anticipate that he will behave responsibly. <v Augustus D'Aloise>That if he needs help, he will seek help in the proper way from the <v Augustus D'Aloise>probation parole agent who will have supervision responsibility or from other- from
<v Augustus D'Aloise>others in the community may be in the position to help. <v Augustus D'Aloise>It's his responsibility to seek help. <v Augustus D'Aloise>If he doesn't, the individual responsible for supervision, the <v Augustus D'Aloise>probation parole agent will confront him. <v Augustus D'Aloise>And will help him understand that there are certain obligations and responsibility he has <v Augustus D'Aloise>with respect to employment, uh just plain dealing with people that he <v Augustus D'Aloise>will have to meet. <v Augustus D'Aloise>Otherwise, he will pay a price. <v Thurman Bedford>Generally, the residents leave this institution uh, are afraid. <v Thurman Bedford>You know, they want to go home, but they are afraid because they know they can hold <v Thurman Bedford>the trivial and, and the uh, the dangers <v Thurman Bedford>of society. The society is not structured to help them in any way or <v Thurman Bedford>to realize that they paid their time or did their crime for the crime they did. <v Thurman Bedford>I would say that in this case, the resident or inmate, leaving this institution have to <v Thurman Bedford>be self-confident yet, they have a lot of self-awareness and know about
<v Thurman Bedford>his mobilitie and his, his uh capabilities and exercise them <v Thurman Bedford>to the fullest extent. Otherwise, he surely gonna get stepped on. <v James Hudson>What I'm trying to do now is uh, give me a sense of direction. <v James Hudson>I need a sense of direction, foundations, something I can, something solid, <v James Hudson>something concrete I can stand on, you know? <v James Hudson>I can't stand on the uh, you know, the- I've already. <v James Hudson>Most inmates, when they come to the penitentiary they've already demonstrated the <v James Hudson>inability to accept responsibility and things, you see, and uh <v James Hudson>that, I have to say, was my, you know, problem. <v James Hudson>Quote, unquote. <v James Hudson>And um, now I think I've gotten myself together whereas <v James Hudson>I can become an asset rather than a liability, you know, to the community, I am, you <v James Hudson>know, released to. <v James Hudson>However, studying. <v James Hudson>You know, going to school every day. <v James Hudson>Just another. That's not gonna- that's not gonna feed me.
<v James Hudson>It's not going to clothe me. You know, studying in itself, you see. <v James Hudson>So I'm I have to find some way that I can, I can market, you know, these this knowledge <v James Hudson>that I have obtained while I've, you know, been incarcerated. <v James Hudson>And I'm quite sure it's gonna be difficult. <v James Hudson>But this prison, you know, <v James Hudson>has inherent qualities that make- that make a person want- that makes a person uh, <v James Hudson>able to withstand a lot of pressure. <v James Hudson>You see what I'm saying? So I'll be able to- whatever they come with out there, you know, <v James Hudson>it won't be you know, it'll be- it's tenfold in here, you see. <v James Hudson>So I'll be able to- I'll be able to deal with it and hopefully I'll be successful. <v Gary Drago>I've written this article and um, it was <v Gary Drago>a rainy day. And I just wanted to put my thoughts <v Gary Drago>on paper. So I- I want to read it. <v Gary Drago>It's called Free Expression. <v Gary Drago>Here I sit, bored to hell as usual.
<v Gary Drago>I'm trying my damndest to understand this helpful situation I'm in and figure <v Gary Drago>out how I'm supposed to benefit from it. <v Gary Drago>However, no solid bases can be drawn. <v Gary Drago>Life's meaning has temporarily terminated. <v Gary Drago>All I'm allowed to do is exist. <v Gary Drago>So I continue to strive day after day. <v Gary Drago>The only reason I can explain and convey to another person for my continual strive <v Gary Drago>is that I know for a fact. <v Gary Drago>Someday in the future I can put this person's existence behind me <v Gary Drago>and have what's left of my life back. <v Gary Drago>When that finally arrives, I'll feel happiness within. <v Gary Drago>But what type of person will I be? <v Gary Drago>A person of warmth, kindness and love? <v Gary Drago>No, I don't think so. You see, with each passing day, that- the feeling <v Gary Drago>of that nature dies a little bit more. <v Gary Drago>Each day I become more and more colder within. <v Gary Drago>The hatred continues to grow. <v Gary Drago>It's starting to show an outward personality.
<v Gary Drago>I've tried and tried to fight the hatred and bitterness, but it's a fight <v Gary Drago>I continue to lose. The years have taken their toll. <v Gary Drago>The loneliness, hatred, bitterness that surrounds a confined man constantly <v Gary Drago>has gotten inside of me and is slowly but surely turning my heart <v Gary Drago>from a bright, glowing, lively flame to a flicker. <v Gary Drago>How much longer before that flicker is extinguished completely? <v Gary Drago>When I was placed in prison. <v Gary Drago>There were many, many people that I loved, respected and appreciated. <v Gary Drago>But now I can count them on one hand and have some fingers left uncounted. <v Gary Drago>There was a time when it could be said that I was improving and making good use of my <v Gary Drago>time. Now it's abuse I receive from the people that are <v Gary Drago>Here to help me and know what's best for me. <v Gary Drago>Well, they are wrong and give me more of a runaround. <v Gary Drago>And actual will help me- actually help me. <v Gary Drago>And they call it rehabilitation to these people. <v Gary Drago>I say before you can help a confined man or woman.
Incarceration or Rehabilitation?
Producing Organization
WPNE-TV (Television station : Green Bay, Wis.)
University of Wisconsin--Green Bay. Center for Television Production
Wisconsin Educational Communications Board
Contributing Organization
The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia (Athens, Georgia)
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Episode Description
This episode opens with a former inmate talking about the crimes he committed. The episode focuses on the Wisconsin State Reformatory in Green Bay, where inmates spend time contemplating their freedom and an uncertain future. The host talks about unemployment of former inmates and the rates of reoffending and asks the question: Does the prison prepare inmates for the problems they will face upon release? Throughout the program, inmates talk about the frustration and apathy they feel, their desires for additional programs to prepare them to reenter society, and the failures of current rehabilitation programs. The narrator details current rehabilitation programs and prison overcrowding, and a social worker talks about differentiating between legitimate concerns of inmates and unrealistic demands. Other people involved in the criminal justice system express their views on rehabilitation programs in prisons and talk about improvements that need to be made.
Episode Description
"The half-hour documentary 'Incarceration or Rehabilitation' focuses on inmates at the Wisconsin State Reformatory in Green Bay, juxtaposing their demands for programs that will alleviate potential unemployment and job discrimination upon release with the observations of prison officials and social workers. "Inmates filmed for this episode from the weekly ENCOMPASS series express their convictions that the Reformatory's rehabilitation activities are inadequate and that the prisoners' needs are being met with disinterest on the part of the institution's staff employed to assist them, as well as apathy induced by 'the system.' An example of a dead-end rehabilitation program cited by one inmate is the barber training sequence, which culminates in denial of a license to practice the trade based on state laws governing certification of ex-offenders. "A contrasting viewpoint is presented by a Reformatory social worker who points to overcrowding of the prison and understaffed conditions as a cause of the conflict between the inmates' legitimate needs and the sometimes unrealistic demands they pose. The social worker cites examples of several positive steps now being taken toward meeting rehabilitation needs. "Extensive filming on location at the Wisconsin State Reformatory brings before the documentary's viewers comments from the prison superintendent, from a county circuit court judge, and from the director of a prison rehabilitation program, as well as the viewpoints of several Reformatory inmates and of an ex-offender. ENCOMPASS host Charles Leonard visited the institution to film his interview with the warden. "'Incarceration or Rehabilitation' was produced and telecast in partial fulfillment of the expressed needs of Green Bay area citizens, as determined through WPNE-TV's ongoing ascertainment activity."--1977 Peabody Awards entry form.
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Director: Neukum, Larry
Host: Leonard, Charles
Interviewee: D'Aloise, Augustus
Interviewee: Martin, Bill
Interviewee: Cady, Elmer
Interviewee: Drago, Gary
Interviewee: Bedford, Thurman
Interviewee: Hudson, James
Interviewee: Thomas, Mike
Interviewee: Byers, James
Producer: O'Brien, Lee D.
Producer: Neukum, Larry
Producing Organization: WPNE-TV (Television station : Green Bay, Wis.)
Producing Organization: University of Wisconsin--Green Bay. Center for Television Production
Producing Organization: Wisconsin Educational Communications Board
AAPB Contributor Holdings
The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia
Identifier: cpb-aacip-0b588a3f97b (Filename)
Format: U-matic
Duration: 0:32:47
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Chicago: “Encompass; Incarceration or Rehabilitation?,” 1977-12, The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed June 28, 2022,
MLA: “Encompass; Incarceration or Rehabilitation?.” 1977-12. The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. June 28, 2022. <>.
APA: Encompass; Incarceration or Rehabilitation?. Boston, MA: The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from