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<v Speaker>Women in this country have made dramatic advances toward the freedom to live the lives <v Speaker>they choose. Yet there are still restraints. <v Speaker>I think my father probably in years gone by, would never have imagined <v Speaker>his daughter could run his business, today, I'll bet he wishes I were. <v Leonard Chusmir>Society has said up till now and it still says it really. <v Leonard Chusmir>And most of the United States. That high level management <v Leonard Chusmir>jobs, powerful jobs are male jobs. <v Susan Brownmiller>Masculinity is a system designed for go to to achieve, <v Susan Brownmiller>to accomplish. That's what's respected in masculinity <v Susan Brownmiller>and femininity is designed to simply look a certain way and to exploit <v Susan Brownmiller>and demonstrate one's vulnerabilities and limitations. <v Gloria Steinem>Women are gonna be on the forefront of this revolution because we're more deprived of our <v Gloria Steinem>full humanity than men are. But men are also deprived. <v Speaker>How would you answer Freud's question? What do women really want anyway? <v Bernice Sandler>Women need to be treated not as if they were something different, but as people
<v Bernice Sandler>in their individual capacities as not as the foreign and <v Bernice Sandler>not as the outsider or not as the other but as one of us. <v Geraldine Ferraro>We're people who care about this country and we're entitled to have our say in what the <v Geraldine Ferraro>future is. <v Speaker>What do women really want anyway is made possible by that telecommunications <v Speaker>companies of U.S. West Mountain Bell, North Western Bell, Pacific Northwest Bell and U.S. <v Speaker>West Information Systems to more than 9 million customers in 14 states. <v Speaker>Nobody knows the trails better by Mountain Bell providing advanced <v Speaker>information transport services for homes and businesses by Public Service <v Speaker>Company of Colorado, a company with energy for the 80s by the Virginia Neoh Blue <v Speaker>Resource Centers Inc. <v Speaker>And by Rocky Mountain Reflections. <v Susan Kinney>In the next half hour, we are going to examine the progress women have made toward <v Susan Kinney>equality and the real basis of sex discrimination, which remains today. <v Susan Kinney>Sex discrimination has been with us since the earliest days of humankind.
<v Paul Shankman>Women have been in an unequal position <v Paul Shankman>in virtually all human societies. <v Paul Shankman>Men have larger amounts of upper body strength. <v Paul Shankman>And these are very important in war, in the hunting of large game animals. <v Paul Shankman>And culture builds on that kind of biological <v Paul Shankman>base. <v Susan Kinney>Today, qualities other than upper body strength are advantageous for human survival and <v Susan Kinney>advancement. Equality for women becomes possible. <v Susan Kinney>Women are no longer the property of their husbands. <v Susan Kinney>Women can vote and women are entering occupations previously reserved for <v Susan Kinney>men only. <v Sally Ride>I've got to read out on Delta be one. Delta B 2, Delta b three and Delta <v Sally Ride>b 4 if you're interested in them. <v Sally Ride>Sure we'd like to hear those Sally. <v Sally Ride>Figured you would. <v Susan Kinney>These new opportunities have made the most profound difference in the quality of women's <v Susan Kinney>lives. According to a recent research project. <v Rosalind Barnett>Seems to be some general tendency for men to
<v Rosalind Barnett>indicate fewer symptoms of depression and anxiety, and so forth. <v Rosalind Barnett>that gap is closing. And it's been closing, we see. <v Rosalind Barnett>And it's not because men are. <v Rosalind Barnett>Enduring less good mental health, but rather women are enjoying better mental health. <v Rosalind Barnett>And that was hard to make causal statements. <v Rosalind Barnett>The curve for that change parallels the curve women's employment. <v Rosalind Barnett>So it's a heightened evaluation of women and women themselves feeling better, <v Rosalind Barnett>more self esteem, more sense of potential. <v Susan Kinney>Now that many barriers to women's employment have been removed, many feel that equality <v Susan Kinney>for women has been achieved. Yet there are strong indications to the contrary. <v Patricia Schroeder>Two thirds of the hours worked on the planet are worked by women, <v Patricia Schroeder>according to the U.N.. <v Patricia Schroeder>They get 10 percent of the wages and they control less than 1 percent of the property. <v Susan Kinney>Today in this country, women earn 65 cents for every dollar earned by men. <v Susan Kinney>A woman college graduate earns 10 percent less than a man.
<v Susan Kinney>High school graduate, a woman executive earn sixty three cents for every dollar <v Susan Kinney>earned by a man in a similar job. <v Susan Kinney>Almost 60 percent of working women are still segregated in four traditional low paying <v Susan Kinney>jobs. Office work, nursing, teaching and social work. <v Susan Kinney>Obviously, equality has not been achieved. <v Susan Kinney>Equality has not been achieved because we have not yet examined the real essence of sex <v Susan Kinney>discrimination. Those deeply ingrained attitudes that lead us all men and <v Susan Kinney>women alike, to behave differently to women than we do to men. <v Susan Kinney>Those behaviors are usually invisible to us. <v Susan Kinney>Yet a major research project in college classroom succeeded in discovering and <v Susan Kinney>documenting them. <v Bernice Sandler>Even when men and women sit next to each other in the classroom, they're having very <v Bernice Sandler>different experiences. Male students get much more eye contact, which is very <v Bernice Sandler>reinforcing. It says, I'm looking at you. <v Bernice Sandler>I care about what you're thinking, what you're saying. <v Bernice Sandler>Male students get called on more often. <v Bernice Sandler>Girls and women get interrupted much more, teachers wait longer
<v Bernice Sandler>for males to come up with an answer, as if they expect the male to know <v Bernice Sandler>the answer and as if they are saying to themselves, he is thinking about the answer. <v Bernice Sandler>They wait a shorter time for women to come up with the answer again, as if the faculty <v Bernice Sandler>member was saying she probably doesn't know the answer anyway. <v Bernice Sandler>Most teachers remember the men's names more than they remember the female names. <v Bernice Sandler>And again, that says I remember the names of important people. <v Bernice Sandler>Most teachers, men and women alike are totally unaware that they are even doing <v Bernice Sandler>this. We were looking for reasons why do we keep finding all of these, about thirty, <v Bernice Sandler>thirty five different kinds of behaviors. <v Bernice Sandler>And the main reason we came up with is this devaluation, which says that women are <v Bernice Sandler>simply not as important, not as worthwhile, or not as smart, <v Bernice Sandler>not as competent. And that this message is given to women in a very <v Bernice Sandler>indirect and subtle way. The saddest thing about it is if you ask a woman <v Bernice Sandler>and you say, you know, this is treat your teacher, treat you fairly, most of them <v Bernice Sandler>will say yes, because they don't know about these behaviors and they don't see them.
<v student>I've always felt very like I've been treated very equitably. <v Bernice Sandler>The women may not notice this, but nevertheless, they're getting a message which says <v Bernice Sandler>you're just not that great. <v Bernice Sandler>And they take it as an individual message. If they see it, they don't see it as happening <v Bernice Sandler>to other women. They see this happening to them. <v Bernice Sandler>So they don't see it as a pattern. And so they wonder what is wrong with them. <v student 2>The math students that are male seem to be able to do more work on the board for <v student 2>us and things like that than the female students do. <v Bernice Sandler> Confidence in women is less in college than it is of men. <v Bernice Sandler>And moreover, for a substantial number of women, it drops. <v Bernice Sandler>So woman who might have wanted to be as scientists says well instead of being a <v Bernice Sandler>scientist, maybe I'll be a science teacher while a male who came in <v Bernice Sandler>maybe wanting to be a scientist. <v Bernice Sandler>Now, now thinks maybe he'll win a Nobel Prize someday. <v interviewer>What kind of toll do these behaviors take? <v interviewer>In energy that's consumed by the anger and the frustration <v interviewer>and the discouragement.
<v Bernice Sandler>A big toll. A big toll. <v Bernice Sandler>It means that women are exposed to more negative situations and that they're not going to <v Bernice Sandler>feel good about it. <v Bernice Sandler>Indeed, we began to think that many of the things we noticed relate to the problems that <v Bernice Sandler>women have in classrooms. They are thought of as passive. <v Bernice Sandler>They don't participate as much. <v interviewer>Is this setting really a microcosm of the society at large in our personal <v interviewer>relationships, in our families and our jobs. <v Bernice Sandler>Certainly happens throughout the campus. <v Bernice Sandler>It happens at work. It happens in life at large. <v Laurel Vander Meullen>If you go on a call in and there is a male officer, I don't care <v Laurel Vander Meullen>if he's, you know, just brand new on the force so <v Laurel Vander Meullen>many times that the general public will speak to the male. <v Laurel Vander Meullen>I've found that to be true almost all the time. <v Laurel Vander Meullen>It may be your call and you're the one doing the report. <v Laurel Vander Meullen>But as you're writing, they're telling the man. <v Geraldine Ferraro>When a man is elected to Congress, he's clothed with the presumption <v Geraldine Ferraro>of competence where as a woman when she gets elected, has the
<v Geraldine Ferraro>burden to prove. And what happened down there, I just like <v Geraldine Ferraro>the other women, is had proof that I was as good by being probably twice as good. <v Susan Kinney>Do you think that there are qualities that women typically have that are psychological, <v Susan Kinney>personal kinds of qualities that limit our advancement in areas like politics? <v Geraldine Ferraro>Hey, sometimes you don't have the confidence that we should. <v Geraldine Ferraro>We worry about how others perceive us. <v Geraldine Ferraro>One moves ahead and does something, uh very aggressive. <v Geraldine Ferraro>A man does it, he is highly motivated. <v Geraldine Ferraro>I mean, I think what we have to do is is start redefining terms. <v Susan Kinney>When a woman works in a company which recognizes the abilities of women and promotes them <v Susan Kinney>to positions of power, she must often continue to prove herself to people outside <v Susan Kinney>her own company. <v Juanita Cox-Burton>The problems that we seem to run into most often <v Juanita Cox-Burton>is that if we're in a room full of men, that the men will become <v Juanita Cox-Burton>very cliquish and women then become very invisible.
<v Juanita Cox-Burton>They talk to one another about whatever the issues are and that if you <v Juanita Cox-Burton>offer something, it's as if someone else has to repeat it for it to be heard. <v Juanita Cox-Burton>It's not an offering until it comes from a man. <v Juanita Cox-Burton>We hold ourselves down. Women do. <v Juanita Cox-Burton>And we do that because sometimes we believe what we hear. <v Juanita Cox-Burton>We believe that we're less than men are because we've heard that <v Juanita Cox-Burton>over and over again. <v Susan Kinney>These attitudes and behaviors handicap women in the most fundamental way. <v Susan Kinney>They limit what a woman expects of herself and therefore strives for. <v Susan Kinney>They limit what others expect of a woman and therefore the opportunities provided her. <v Susan Kinney>But even beyond this, they have been incorporated into an elaborate code of behaviors <v Susan Kinney>which a woman must conform to in order to be accepted as a woman, to be accepted <v Susan Kinney>as feminine. <v Susan Brownmiller>Masculinity is a system designed for go to, to achieve, <v Susan Brownmiller>to accomplish. That's what's respected in masculinity
<v Susan Brownmiller>and femininity is designed to simply look a certain way and to exploit <v Susan Brownmiller>and demonstrate one's vulnerabilities and limitations. <v Susan Brownmiller>It's also a very systematic method of handicapping <v Susan Brownmiller>the female body and the female mind. <v Susan Brownmiller>I don't wear high heeled shoes because I know I can't walk as freely. <v Susan Brownmiller>I don't wear, have long fingernails that I'm constantly worried about. <v Susan Brownmiller>I don't obsess about the ends of my fingers because I use my hands for work. <v Susan Brownmiller>The big thing is, is that I don't limit my ambitions. <v Susan Kinney>Your ambition? <v Susan Brownmiller>Yeah. I think it's feminine not to admit to yourself and certainly <v Susan Brownmiller>not admit to others that you are an ambitious person, that you want things <v Susan Brownmiller>and things that perhaps are not things that women are traditionally supposed to want. <v Susan Kinney>You see these as real basic kinds of barriers for women? <v Susan Brownmiller>I think they're among the most basic, really.
<v Susan Brownmiller>Even though they're not seen and they're not talked <v Susan Brownmiller>about. If you are, say, an assertive woman, you're not going to fit. <v Susan Brownmiller>You're not going to fit. So I think what most women do is compromise <v Susan Brownmiller>in the small ways. I call it compensatory femininity. <v Susan Brownmiller>They will alter their speech patterns and their sentences that, you know, aren't <v Susan Brownmiller>up, though nod their head a lot. <v Susan Kinney>What difference do you think it makes to this society as a whole, that women have full <v Susan Kinney>opportunity to contribute what they will? <v Susan Brownmiller>The quality of medical care, dental care, legal care <v Susan Brownmiller>would go up because you'd get the best of either sex in there. <v Susan Brownmiller>Quality of plumber and plumbing would go up carpentry, painting everything. <v Susan Brownmiller>Cause, you know, the best people for the job would really be doing it. <v Susan Brownmiller>That's nice. <v Susan Brownmiller>And then we'd be facing some new very interesting questions
<v Susan Brownmiller>of sex differences, which are quite profound <v Susan Brownmiller>and real. And it would be interesting to see them clear <v Susan Brownmiller>without um, without the cultural overlay to really see them for what they are. <v Susan Kinney>It takes courage for a woman to break out of the narrow boundaries of conventional <v Susan Kinney>femininity to develop talents and abilities traditionally thought of as masculine, <v Susan Kinney>qualities like physical competence, strength, mastery, power. <v Susan Kinney>Anita Flores enjoys being a pipefitter for the same reasons a man does. <v Susan Kinney>She likes working outside and making money. <v Susan Kinney>She was not easily discouraged by the men on her crew. <v Anita Flores Martin>I would get all the hard jobs, real hard jobs, <v Anita Flores Martin>the jobs that nobody would want digging in the mud, digging in <v Anita Flores Martin>hard soil, jackhammering a lot. <v Anita Flores Martin>It's just that I had to prove myself. <v Susan Kinney>Anita intends to stay in this job because it pays better than what she is able to make in
<v Susan Kinney>any other job. <v Anita Flores Martin>They don't pay you for sitting down. <v Anita Flores Martin>You got to get up. My daddy used to haul trash. <v Anita Flores Martin>He used to have his own business. I'd help him. <v Anita Flores Martin>I was making more hauling trash part time with him than I was working full time as <v Anita Flores Martin>a secretary. <v Patricia Schroeder>People keep trying to treat equality as though it's <v Patricia Schroeder>a frill. It really deals with economic rights. <v Patricia Schroeder>And the economic conditions of women today are really very critical. <v Patricia Schroeder>We know the fastest growing poverty group today is female. <v Patricia Schroeder>And they tell us by the year 2000, everyone in poverty will be female. <v Patricia Schroeder>You should see what welfare mothers are. Many of them were middle class mothers who <v Patricia Schroeder>suddenly had a divorce or were left and had lots of small children. <v Patricia Schroeder>All women, because of their tenuous economic position, <v Patricia Schroeder>tend to be in this very borderline situation. <v Patricia Schroeder>As someone said, for all this, women still want to be cheerleaders. <v Patricia Schroeder>They want to be beautiful and want to be starlets.
<v Patricia Schroeder>And they want to be all these things. And then they hit their thirties and forties and <v Patricia Schroeder>reality sinks in. But it's really breaking down those old barriers of being afraid <v Patricia Schroeder>[ of being afraid] of being afraid to risk something. <v Patricia Schroeder>I also know I can go back. <v Patricia Schroeder>I remember when I went to Harvard Law School, I have friends who said nobody will ever <v Patricia Schroeder>marry you. You've just cut off your chance of ever having a family. <v Patricia Schroeder>I think that's still very real. <v Patricia Schroeder>Oh, you see testing today showing that if the top of the class <v Patricia Schroeder>at Harvard Medical School is a female, she's very upset. <v Patricia Schroeder>If it's a male, he's delighted. <v Patricia Schroeder>A woman feels that she's so afraid she's cut off all the, the whole society has to <v Patricia Schroeder>realize we're not acting very sanely when we do this kind of things. <v Susan Kinney>For a woman. Success can be failure and failure success, because in <v Susan Kinney>order to succeed in the male working world, a woman must have qualities like <v Susan Kinney>assertiveness, ambition, independence, qualities considered traditionally masculine. <v Leonard Chusmir>There's a tendency that people have, of course, to like people who
<v Leonard Chusmir>look like them and who act like them. <v Leonard Chusmir>And since men do the hiring, the tendency is going to be normal to hire people <v Leonard Chusmir>who look like them and who act like them. <v Leonard Chusmir>A woman has a degree of sexual conflict because society has set up <v Leonard Chusmir>till now and it still says it really in most of the United States that <v Leonard Chusmir>high level management jobs, powerful jobs are male jobs and that <v Leonard Chusmir>if a woman wants to enter that field, she is perhaps less of a woman. <v Leonard Chusmir>And that obviously is disturbing. <v Leonard Chusmir>That's a lot of difficulty to overcome there. <v Lynne Hufnagel>You realize this is a felony. This is serious business. <v Lynne Hufnagel>Have you ever been treated for any mental illness? <v Lynne Hufnagel>I've even had attorneys call me sir. <v Susan Kinney>This conflict between femininity and power, between femininity and many <v Susan Kinney>enabling human qualities causes some women to restrain their development. <v Susan Kinney>Those who choose to advance often pay a price in their personal lives.
<v Arleen Arnsparger>You have made a choice not to marry, at least to this point. <v Lynne Hufnagel>Not sure that's a choice. It is a situation. <v Arleen Arnsparger>What about the men that you go out with? Do you? <v Arleen Arnsparger>Are they intimidated by the fact that you're a judge? <v Lynne Hufnagel>Oh, I think probably. I spend the entire day <v Lynne Hufnagel>being strong and being decisive and <v Lynne Hufnagel>those kinds of characteristics don't go away. <v Lynne Hufnagel>Just because it's private, personal time. <v Susan Kinney>A study of women in very high level management jobs shows that only 41 percent <v Susan Kinney>are married, while 95 percent of men in comparable jobs are married. <v Susan Kinney>Those women with the strength and courage to develop the full range of their human <v Susan Kinney>potential, despite all the pressures to restrain it, offer the promise of a new <v Susan Kinney>approach to our most difficult problems. <v Lynne Hufnagel>And then the third thing I was going to order was that you get a job but since you have <v Lynne Hufnagel>done that, you don't have to worry about that.
<v Lynne Hufnagel>Just keep it and don't do something stupid <v Lynne Hufnagel>like this again. There is a way to get help. <v Lynne Hufnagel>If you can't afford your rent and can't buy food for your children other than <v Lynne Hufnagel>burglarizing places. <v Susan Kinney>What about women in politics? <v Susan Kinney>How important is it that women really advance in that? <v Geraldine Ferraro>I think extremely important for both for the country and <v Geraldine Ferraro>for women. Let me deal with the country first. <v Geraldine Ferraro>It has been said that we bring a different approach to problems. <v Geraldine Ferraro>If you go the same route toward a problem and are unable to solve it. <v Geraldine Ferraro>You're up against a brick wall, you turn around saying, well, what am I gonna do? <v Geraldine Ferraro>A woman might be able to give you an alternate means of getting around that wall. <v Leonard Chusmir>They're also bringing a value that American industry is starting to realize is very <v Leonard Chusmir>important, and that is the value of human resources, the value of sensitivity, <v Leonard Chusmir>the value of understanding that workers are not machines, but workers are in fact
<v Leonard Chusmir>people, they are individuals. <v Leonard Chusmir>Japan realized this a long time ago and one of the reasons for their greater productivity <v Leonard Chusmir>is because of their greater understanding of the value of human beings at work. <v Juanita Cox-Burton>As a boss, I would characterize myself as strong <v Juanita Cox-Burton>as one who believes that my people can perform <v Juanita Cox-Burton>and outperform themselves. <v Juanita Cox-Burton>I believe they're better than they think they are. <v Juanita Cox-Burton>And I leave them with the opportunity to prove that. <v male worker>The difference with the woman, as I think I felt more drawn out, more <v male worker>at ease with myself, more willing to take risks <v male worker>and doubt less. <v male worker 2> It seems like the women bosses I've had are more interested in my development <v male worker 2>and working with me to do a better job where I think that's harder for men to do that. <v Jean Baker Miller>I see women as being the people <v Jean Baker Miller>that had had been assigned to carry for the whole society.
<v Jean Baker Miller>The connections between people. <v Jean Baker Miller>The whole network of relationships <v Jean Baker Miller>that is essential in any society for men and women and children. <v Jean Baker Miller>And that it it's only within relationships that anybody develops and grows. <v Jean Baker Miller>I mean, nobody grows in isolation ever. <v Jean Baker Miller>This sensitivity, this understanding, this interest in understanding <v Jean Baker Miller>and knowing others' feelings and so on is a very valuable thing. <v Jean Baker Miller>And if women can keep it he-, seeing the value of what they themselves <v Jean Baker Miller>are doing and really admitting the <v Jean Baker Miller>value of that, we can bring that sort of whole context of life, <v Jean Baker Miller>that mode of living for it, for everybody. <v Jean Baker Miller>We will have done a tremendous thing. <v Jean Baker Miller>So while I think women have to participate in all realms of life <v Jean Baker Miller>and policymaking.
<v Jean Baker Miller>But if we do it by imitating men, we'll be losing a great <v Jean Baker Miller>opportunity. <v Susan Kinney>Tell me what you mean by this concept of the real world. <v Jean Baker Miller>It's as if men said, we'll tell you what's the real world. <v Jean Baker Miller>This is the real world. The world of work outside the home. <v Jean Baker Miller>The world of politics. The world of power. <v Jean Baker Miller>The world of wars. <v Jean Baker Miller>And women are sort of not in the real world. <v Jean Baker Miller>The world they were in were in the world of developing people. <v Jean Baker Miller>Now, I think, again, that's the kind of definition that really is backward <v Jean Baker Miller>or upside down. What matters is how people develop <v Jean Baker Miller>and can be made productive and satisfied. <v Susan Kinney>As more and more women have moved into the man's world of work outside the home, that <v Susan Kinney>traditional women's work of developing people may have been even further devalued. <v Debby Ross>I find that I'm not quite as interesting when I go to business related functions with <v Debby Ross>Brian. I sort of seek out the other women who are staying home with their children <v Debby Ross>because I really don't have that much in common with somebody who is working.
<v Susan Kinney>Working in the home is not considered working even by other women working there. <v Susan Kinney>Women engage day by day in the activities that develop our next generation. <v Debby Ross>Sometimes I do feel sort of insecure. <v Debby Ross>I can remember having to pick them up one day downtown and he was at some kind of a <v Debby Ross>reception and I could look in the window and see all these women dressed in their suits. <v Debby Ross>And all I was thinking about was what a great mom I was because I had made jello that <v Debby Ross>day. And that's sort of upsetting to me when I started thinking about how important that <v Debby Ross>Jell-O had become in my life. But everyone liked it, so it was fine. <v Debby Ross>It was a big deal for my kids. In the back of my mind, I always think that I'm doing what <v Debby Ross>is right for my kids. <v interviewer>When you're at a social gathering with your husband and someone comes up and says, <v interviewer>what do you do? What do you say? <v Debby Ross>I usually say I'm retired right now and that I'm staying home with my children. <v interviewer>Do you ever feel defensive when someone asks-. <v Debby Ross>Very. I do. <v interviewer>Is that why you say retired? <v Debby Ross>Yeah. I mean, sometimes I want to say, you know, I work. <v Debby Ross>I had a career I earned. In fact, there was a time when I earned more money than my
<v Debby Ross>husband. <v interviewer>When you say that you're retired and that you're home with your kids, do you ever get the <v interviewer>sense that the person you're talking to sort of loses interest entirely? <v Debby Ross>Uh huh, absolutely. <v interviewer>What do they do? <v Debby Ross>It's very nice meeting you. I think I'll go have another drink. <v Ruth Hubbard>I see no reason why a woman staying at home and <v Ruth Hubbard>taking care of a family of kids should not have a great <v Ruth Hubbard>deal of self respect because that's very hard work. <v Ruth Hubbard>I think in many ways it's a lot harder work than what I do in the laboratory, but it's <v Ruth Hubbard>work that doesn't get much respect in this society, that doesn't get <v Ruth Hubbard>esteemed very highly, and women tend to be apologetic about it. <v Ruth Hubbard>So my my feeling is that it <v Ruth Hubbard>is important for women to respect <v Ruth Hubbard>ourselves no matter what we do. <v Ruth Hubbard>And to the extent that the society doesn't let us do that,
<v Ruth Hubbard>I think we need to counteract that. <v Ruth Hubbard>I really don't think that we do women a favor by <v Ruth Hubbard>putting the token Supreme <v Ruth Hubbard>Court justice or physician or <v Ruth Hubbard>whatever up there as the thing to aspire to. <v Ruth Hubbard>I think whatever it is that women are doing merits respect. <v interviewer>Tell me about your ideas. As a biologist on the impact of living <v interviewer>in this society on women's lives. <v Ruth Hubbard>I think it's a very tough society to live in, for both men and women, but tougher for <v Ruth Hubbard>women. I think hav- having your work and your personhood <v Ruth Hubbard>devalued as much as women's work is is difficult <v Ruth Hubbard>being made to feel inadequate. <v Ruth Hubbard>I mean, the fact that so much of this society's <v Ruth Hubbard>pressure and and if you wish income
<v Ruth Hubbard>comes out of making women feel that our bodies <v Ruth Hubbard>are all wrong, that we have to spend lots of money <v Ruth Hubbard>and time in order to make ourselves look better, <v Ruth Hubbard>be a different shape, have different color, hair, have different color <v Ruth Hubbard>skin, have different color... <v Ruth Hubbard>Everything is bad for our health, both because lots of the gadgets <v Ruth Hubbard>that we use and the trick diets that we employ are bad for our health, <v Ruth Hubbard>but also because just feeling that there's something wrong <v Ruth Hubbard>with you all the time and that you ought to be different from the <v Ruth Hubbard>way you are is bad for your health. <v Ruth Hubbard>Women are the ones who are supposed to look good and good <v Ruth Hubbard>being defined externally rather than internally. <v interviewer>Does the science of biology have some distorted views of women? <v Ruth Hubbard>Yes. Women are described as nurturing,
<v Ruth Hubbard>as weak as natural <v Ruth Hubbard>people to take care of others. <v Ruth Hubbard>If I had to put my finger on what is, quote, natural <v Ruth Hubbard>for people, it's that we are incredibly adaptable. <v Ruth Hubbard>I think there are some women and some men who would be <v Ruth Hubbard>who could be good at most anything that needs to be done. <v Susan Kinney>Women are encouraging each other to discover this potential. <v Susan Kinney>In Denver, there has been an effort to encourage pride and support across the whole <v Susan Kinney>community through a series of events focusing on women. <v Judith Hensel>We want to reach all women crossing socio political, ethnic and professional <v Judith Hensel>lines. If women continue this kind of thinking, <v Judith Hensel>there is a stronger base for women everywhere. <v Susan Kinney>What particular things do you think can be done by yourself, by other people to really <v Susan Kinney>mobilize the spirit of women? <v Gloria Steinem>At an individual level, We can, for instance,
<v Gloria Steinem>utter some fairly revolutionary things like pick it up yourself <v Gloria Steinem>or them what eats can also cook. <v Susan Kinney>What's the point of the whole movement? <v Gloria Steinem>As long as we have these ideas of of a, that are <v Gloria Steinem>our genital somehow dictate our brains, which fundamentally a crazy idea. <v Gloria Steinem>Men are in a prison of a masculine role, too. <v Gloria Steinem>Now, it's true that the masculine role is a much bigger, more commodious role <v Gloria Steinem>in much more room to move around and so on and so on. <v Gloria Steinem>But it's still a prison. I mean, it may have wall to wall carpeting and people serving <v Gloria Steinem>you coffee, but it's still prison. <v Gloria Steinem>It's as if you took all of human qualities and arbitrarily <v Gloria Steinem>said, seventy five percent are masculine. <v Gloria Steinem>Twenty five percent are feminine. <v Gloria Steinem>Women are going to be on the forefront of this revolution because we're more deprived of <v Gloria Steinem>our full humanity than men are. But men are also deprived. <v Gloria Steinem>We have a sort of idea that at a minimum, we would like to have sided societies
<v Gloria Steinem>that don't dictate whole human futures because of this one little element of sex <v Gloria Steinem>or race. <v Susan Kinney>So it's really another step in that search for freedom that this country was founded <v Susan Kinney>on. <v Gloria Steinem>Yes, it is. I mean, for your freedom turned out to be quite a contagious idea. <v Gloria Steinem>And though they wrote the Constitution for white males who <v Gloria Steinem>owned property, period, <v Gloria Steinem>we've been steadily saying, hey, wait a minute, you know, what about the rest of us, <v Gloria Steinem>ever since. <v Speaker>[indistinct chatter] <v Speaker>What do women really want anyway is made possible by the telecommunications
What Do Women Really Want, Anyway?
Producing Organization
KRMA-TV (Television station : Denver, Colo.)
Contributing Organization
The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia (Athens, Georgia)
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Program Description
"WHAT DO WOMEN REALLY WANT, ANYWAY? is an overview of the advancement in opportunity for women in this country and an examination of the barriers which still exist. The psychological basis of inequality is the major focus of the broadcast. The reasons for the continuing limitations on women are explored along with the potential benefit to the whole society of the full participation of women. "We feel this broadcast merits Peabody consideration because of the extreme importance of these issues in the lives of individual Americans (men and women) and in the advancement of the society as a whole. This program brings a new synthesis of ideas on an issue as old as human societies."--1985 Peabody Awards entry form. The program features interviews with women within various different fields of work who discuss the inequalities they experience. Women who wish to succeed in the workplace have to acquire stereotypically 'masculine? qualities and endure the hardships of their ambition. Women earn less than men for more work and are seen as 'bossy? in comparison to a man's 'ambition'. While women who choose to be homemakers are seen by society as boring. The program encourages rethinking how gender is seen in society and dismantling society's prescribed gender roles.
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Producing Organization: KRMA-TV (Television station : Denver, Colo.)
AAPB Contributor Holdings
The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia
Identifier: cpb-aacip-e63b1b27db9 (Filename)
Format: U-matic
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Chicago: “What Do Women Really Want, Anyway?,” 1985-12-26, The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed June 26, 2022,
MLA: “What Do Women Really Want, Anyway?.” 1985-12-26. The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. June 26, 2022. <>.
APA: What Do Women Really Want, Anyway?. Boston, MA: The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from