American Popular Songs with Alec Wilder & Friends; Dick Haymes sings Gershwin

<v Alec Wilder>I always felt that Gershwin was very bright, very fast to get <v Alec Wilder>what was going on and loved the rhythms and all the rest of the <v Alec Wilder>innovations that the jazz men were creating, but that he's <v Alec Wilder>not in the manner of kerning. My fellow lived in a cork lined room as far as jazz <v Alec Wilder>was concerned, but that he he didn't move <v Alec Wilder>into the joints. He didn't get stoned with them. <v Alec Wilder>He didn't stay up late at night and talk of the jazz man's talk <v Alec Wilder>and get all muddled up the way you do. <v Alec Wilder>But he he's kept himself clear of them. <v Alec Wilder>But he picked up what they were trying to do, but <v Alec Wilder>not he didn't go far enough into it. <v Announcer>We invite you now to spend an hour with American composer and songwriter Alec Wilder and <v Announcer>friends as they discuss and perform American popular song with Mr.

<v Announcer>Wilder at the piano is his colleague and fellow songwriter Loonis McGlohon. <v Announcer>And today's special guest, film star and ballad singer Supreme, Mr. Dick Haymes, <v Announcer>Our Subject, The Songs of George and Ira Gershwin. <v Loonis McGlohon>I doubt that very many people in the world at that wouldn't know that is a George <v Loonis McGlohon>Gershwin melody. Rhapsody in Blue. <v Loonis McGlohon>But I we may forget that he also wrote a song that <v Loonis McGlohon>sounded like this. [piano] <v Alec Wilder>Uhuh. <v Loonis McGlohon>They're worlds apart. <v Dick Haymes>Sure are. <v Loonis McGlohon>But uh Gershwin is one of the important composers in American popular <v Loonis McGlohon>songs. And Dick Haymes is one of the great, great, important <v Loonis McGlohon>singers of American popular songs as sure as like to have decades doing <v Loonis McGlohon>some George Gershwin this year.

<v Dick Haymes>Sure. Well, it's beautiful to be aboard Loonis and Alec. <v Dick Haymes>And thank you for inviting me. <v Loonis McGlohon>Let's uh start off with uh a kind of a romping swinging George <v Loonis McGlohon>Gershwin song with a lyric by his brother Ira from 1930 called <v Loonis McGlohon>Who Cares? <v Dick Haymes>[Singing: Who Cares?] <v Alec Wilder>Now, it's a pretty song. I like it.

<v Alec Wilder>It's uh cheery and it's uh- <v Loonis McGlohon>You look at the verse while ago, you're kind of glad you didn't do it. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah, oh, yeah. Because that's very depressing. <v Alec Wilder>End of everything. <v Dick Haymes>Well it had to be, it had to do with the era. You know, but that's not the way we are <v Dick Haymes>today. <v Alec Wilder>Are you sure? <v Dick Haymes>I am positive. <v Dick Haymes>I'm one of those positive thinkers you know. I'm a doer. <v Dick Haymes>All right. <v Loonis McGlohon>That was a tune from 1930 in 1926 uh this uh <v Loonis McGlohon>tune, Someone To Watch Over. <v Alec Wilder>Oh that's one of his best known and it's it's become, <v Alec Wilder>you know, a really slow ballad, isn't it? <v Alec Wilder>It's always thought of. I mean, did the jazz men- <v Loonis McGlohon>I think ?unintelligible? <v Alec Wilder>They don't pick it up do they? Do the jazz men here take it up. <v Loonis McGlohon>No. I think you said originally was kind of a rookie ?table?. <v Alec Wilder>Oh yeah it was. It- no um you've just. <v Alec Wilder>Well as many songs have been. <v Dick Haymes>Well you know I think you can blame the band leaders. <v Alec Wilder>Well sometimes thank them. <v Dick Haymes>You know, thank them or blame them because a lot of bandleaders uh <v Dick Haymes>if a if a composer and I'm sure you're aware of this writes a relatively <v Dick Haymes>nice ballad. And the bandleader says, yeah, but they're not gonna get up and dance to <v Dick Haymes>that.

<v Alec Wilder>It's true. <v Dick Haymes>So let's let's get them up on the you know, let's get us to keep-. <v Alec Wilder>Very true. <v Dick Haymes>It peppy and full of bubbles and so forth-. <v Alec Wilder>That's right. <v Dick Haymes>And so on. And so y-you get a completely obnoxious <v Dick Haymes>treatment. Than from what the man originally tried to say. <v Alec Wilder>That has an lot to do with it. Yeah, absolutely true. <v Dick Haymes>Well, Alec, I think in a lot of instances you can blame the band leaders because <v Dick Haymes>they work for a saloon keeper or whatever, and they'll take a <v Dick Haymes>tempo and say we yeah, it's a beautiful ballad, but the people won't get up and dance to. <v Alec Wilder>The Lester Lanin syndrome. <v Dick Haymes>Exactly. You know, and let's let's get up and dance and then have a ball and so forth <v Dick Haymes>and so on, which is a complete um -. <v Alec Wilder>Business operation. <v Dick Haymes>Business operation. And also in paradox to what the composer originally had to say. <v Alec Wilder>That's right. Very. You know, I never thought of it. <v Dick Haymes>What I'm trying to say is this, is that there's certain people that have a feel. <v Dick Haymes>For the right, tempo Basey is one of them. <v Dick Haymes>Tommy Dorsey was one-. <v Alec Wilder>Red Norvo. <v Dick Haymes>Red Norvo and just a little smidgen-. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah.

<v Dick Haymes>Of a difference can make- make it work and cook <v Dick Haymes>or not cook or not work can be just that close and we're all aware of it. <v Dick Haymes>And uh I just want to make a point of of how important uh time is. <v Alec Wilder>Tempe, as you would say. <v Dick Haymes>Tempe. Yes. <v Loonis McGlohon>I hope we're gonna have the right tempo for Someone To Watch Over Me. <v Dick Haymes>What is Tempe plural? <v Loonis McGlohon>Yes. <v Dick Haymes>Thank you. <v Dick Haymes>[Singing: Someone To Watch Over Me] <v Alec Wilder>Yeah, you make me like the song better than I than I ever have before

<v Alec Wilder>as a matter of fact, and I'm not trying to butter you up because you've said that you're <v Alec Wilder>going to sing some songs of mine. I'll just get past that. <v Alec Wilder>No, but I want to say something about another song you're gonna sing, 'cause I saw the <v Alec Wilder>show and I was very deeply touched by the uh setting. <v Alec Wilder>It was a um a ranch and three cowboys sitting on a fence. <v Alec Wilder>And I keep hearing that they were playing harmonicas they weren't there were three up and <v Alec Wilder>playing Ocarinas. <v Dick Haymes>Really? <v Alec Wilder>And they were playing in harmony, three-part harmony. <v Alec Wilder>Now, did they hire the only three actors in America that could play Ocarinas? <v Alec Wilder>Or- all I know is-. <v Loonis McGlohon>They were finger syncing. <v Dick Haymes>No, they had to be before tape. <v Dick Haymes>So they had to be players. <v Loonis McGlohon>They had to be players. <v Dick Haymes>Yeah. <v Alec Wilder>And it was terribly touching. Then when they sang it, I was very impressed by a rhyme <v Alec Wilder>that I'm sure never been used that time because he's biding my time, that's the kind of <v Alec Wilder>guy I'm. But I have heard singers say that's the kind of guy I <v Alec Wilder>am. Uh uh, not allow. <v Dick Haymes>Unforgivable,. <v Alec Wilder>Unforgivable.

<v Dick Haymes>Yeah. <v Alec Wilder>But it's a tender. Now there's a case for tenderness. <v Alec Wilder>Yes, very tender. Dear song. <v Loonis McGlohon>Well there's a very good score. <v Alec Wilder>?unintelligible?. It's not. The A goes right to the B, but back to the C. <v Alec Wilder>Those words, about 24 measures. <v Alec Wilder>Yes, very tender dear little song. <v Loonis McGlohon>They're expected to repeat-peat the first phrase. <v Loonis McGlohon>But, that's where uh this came from The Girl, Crazy uh. <v Alec Wilder>Before Merman got on stage too thank God. <v Loonis McGlohon>Uh Later, there's a film with Judy Garland and uh Mickey Rooney. <v Alec Wilder>You just carry on Loonis. <v Loonis McGlohon>But that- that score also had an addition to this tune Embraceable You watch as <v Loonis McGlohon>well. <v Alec Wilder>Oh well that's another now that's another nonaggressive song. <v Loonis McGlohon>Yes, and um <v Dick Haymes>Yeah but that's so shopworn, you know, I would have done it. <v Dick Haymes>But I said, hey, I don't think I can for the next 10 years, but maybe later. <v Dick Haymes>[Singing: Bidin' My Time]

<v Alec Wilder>There's a funny thing about this song. I don't know if you checked Loonis but How Long Has This

<v Alec Wilder>Been Going On? Has a phrase in it, which I don't think anything. <v Alec Wilder>I have a hunch that Peggy Lee kind of introduced it, didn't she? <v Alec Wilder>Or did she? I mean as of outside of whatever show it was in, <v Alec Wilder>that she was the first person in any event that I ever heard sing it. <v Alec Wilder>And much later when I was doing that book, I naturally went to the sheet music, <v Alec Wilder>because that's the only record we have. And I found out that the notes in the cadences <v Alec Wilder>are not the same as the cadences she used and which every singer has used since. <v Alec Wilder>And they're not as good. No, they're not as good in it. <v Alec Wilder>In the song in the in the piano copy as she <v Alec Wilder>was invented, Or did by mistake doesn't matter. <v Alec Wilder>But it's better. And I.

<v Alec Wilder>It's that [singing] doo doo day too deep doo dee. <v Alec Wilder>It's not exactly the same. And it's better as singers do it now than then. <v Alec Wilder>This has happened with other songs that singers sometimes maybe through errors, maybe <v Alec Wilder>through laziness, maybe through intelligence actually improve <v Alec Wilder>songs. <v Dick Haymes>It's interesting. That's very interesting. <v Loonis McGlohon>There's a curious thing about that song in the key of C. <v Loonis McGlohon>It would start in G seven [piano] less it would be the tonic, would [piano]. <v Dick Haymes>Oh I see. <v Loonis McGlohon>[piano]. <v Alec Wilder>And then does it go to the get to the- yeah. <v Loonis McGlohon>Only here does he get to C. <v Alec Wilder>Ah mnm. Yeah, that's-that's fascinating. <v Dick Haymes>Now what were you talking about. I don't know exactly that's the spot. <v Alec Wilder>Well now keep going-. <v Dick Haymes>The spot on it's [singing] dee da da. <v Loonis McGlohon>[Piano]. <v Alec Wilder>[singing] Dee dee. Now right here. [singing] Doo. <v Alec Wilder>I'll bet you it's not the same as the copy. <v Dick Haymes>Copy is probably-.

<v Alec Wilder>Slightly different. <v Dick Haymes>Instead of E flat it's probably an E natural. <v Alec Wilder>And it's a little- no it's a little icky. <v Alec Wilder>No, it's something different, which is not as good. <v Loonis McGlohon>You were right, Mr Wilders. <v Alec Wilder>Oh sure c'mon c'mon. <v Dick Haymes>Yeah, it's true it's true. <v Alec Wilder>Alright it's gang up-. <v Loonis McGlohon>Let's do a chorus How Long Has This Been Going On. <v Dick Haymes>Okay. Right or wrong? Let's do it. <v Dick Haymes>[Singing: How Long Has This Been Going On.] <v Loonis McGlohon>I'm sure you did it right Mr. Haymes.

<v Dick Haymes>I hope so. Anyway. <v Loonis McGlohon>It all sounded right. <v Alec Wilder> Hey listen there's a song. <v Alec Wilder>Now, here's where harmony really gets into a song. <v Alec Wilder>I mean, and in it- um uh in this case, it's made me love <v Alec Wilder>the song more. That's Nice Work If You Can Get It. <v Alec Wilder>Like it more than I would have liked uh it if the harmony weren't as interesting as it is <v Alec Wilder>because he starts way out of in left field. <v Alec Wilder>It's in the key of let's say it's the key G starts in a B nine chord <v Alec Wilder>and he works his way back. And it's fascinating. <v Alec Wilder>I don't think it would be half his fascinating if he'd started more conventionally. <v Dick Haymes>Did he play good piano? <v Alec Wilder>Well, yeah. For those days. <v Dick Haymes>Well I mean, was he a good pianist. <v Alec Wilder>Oh very popular. He could play the piano part of Rhapsody in Blue. <v Alec Wilder>He's very classical. <v Dick Haymes>Well I mean- I mean could he play concerto in F and things like that? <v Alec Wilder>I think so. I know he could play. <v Loonis McGlohon>He made the piano rolls. <v Alec Wilder>Yes he did. That's right. <v Dick Haymes>OK. <v Alec Wilder>In fact, he made a piano roll- no, he made a piano roll of the piano <v Alec Wilder>part of Rhapsody in Blue. And and Pretty Girl Fay, he made a small arrangement for a <v Alec Wilder>small band arrangement so that you could play the piano roll and the small band could

<v Alec Wilder>work with that piano roll part. <v Dick Haymes>That's interesting. <v Loonis McGlohon>You'd have Gershwin in the band. <v Alec Wilder>That's right. <v Loonis McGlohon>Right nice work uh [piano]. <v Alec Wilder>You never get to the the- there. <v Alec Wilder>There is. <v Loonis McGlohon>A first time. <v Alec Wilder>For the first time. <v Loonis McGlohon>Again in the fifth bar. <v Alec Wilder>That's right. Well, that's the that to me makes the song more fascinating. <v Alec Wilder>You imagine just start in the tonic, you leave the room. <v Dick Haymes>Exactly. <v Alec Wilder>Well there's where Harmony-. <v Dick Haymes>Exactly, yeah. <v Alec Wilder>Does something. <v Dick Haymes>For the lead. <v Alec Wilder>Mm hmm. <v Dick Haymes>OK. <v Alec Wilder>Love to hear it. You're gonna just let it cook. <v Dick Haymes>Yeah let's just cook. <v Dick Haymes>[Singing: Nice Work If You Can Get It.]

<v Alec Wilder>Well, I loved every bit of that. <v Dick Haymes>Well, it was that was fun because uh, you know, besides which, it's <v Dick Haymes>a good song and thanks to Loonis <v Dick Haymes>and the boys in the trio. <v Dick Haymes>Terry ?Lassiter? And Jim Lachey on drums. <v Dick Haymes>Terry ?Lassiter's? A basis. <v Dick Haymes>Um. It makes everything very enjoyable because it just it's just sort of uh-. <v Alec Wilder>Nice and loose. <v Dick Haymes>Rolled along and it was nice. <v Loonis McGlohon>Thank you. It was very nice. <v Dick Haymes>Pleasure. <v Loonis McGlohon>It was a Gershwin song that's usually played the very media with <v Loonis McGlohon>a bright tempo, a foggy day. <v Alec Wilder>That's a lovely song. <v Loonis McGlohon>But to me, it's always been a very moody piece or should be. <v Loonis McGlohon>It's a it's a pretty daring tune. <v Loonis McGlohon>And uh you know-. <v Alec Wilder>That's right. <v Loonis McGlohon>For its time uh it was written in 37. <v Alec Wilder>That's right. Very definitely. <v Dick Haymes>Yeah but those things are timeless.

<v Alec Wilder>Yeah but, at the time they em um em uh did they did the unprecedented. <v Alec Wilder>That's what fascinated. <v Dick Haymes>I see what you're saying. <v Loonis McGlohon>[Piano}. <v Alec Wilder>And then he resolves that. <v Dick Haymes>Probably the publishers said what's that? What's that? <v Alec Wilder>Oh, sure. Fortunately it was a show tune. <v Alec Wilder>So the right kind of publisher wasn't around. Now he [Piano] justifies that by. <v Alec Wilder>Which is another odd note-. <v Dick Haymes>Yes. <v Alec Wilder>Now. Then he goes. <v Loonis McGlohon>[Piano]. <v Alec Wilder>Well, now that he doesn't the first time, he just goes up one step from the A-flat. <v Alec Wilder>I mean, to the D sharp to the A, doesn't he? <v Alec Wilder>But but those two steps justify one another and they're both innovative <v Alec Wilder>and and and yet they're very romantic at the same time, they're not just contrivances <v Alec Wilder>like saying, look what I can do. <v Dick Haymes>[Singing: A Foggy Day In London Town]

<v Dick Haymes>OK. I-I think we've uh as we all are wont to do.

<v Dick Haymes>Neglected the lyricist. who who who puts all <v Dick Haymes>the words to the notes and says it all. <v Dick Haymes>And. <v Dick Haymes>That that interesting uh um sequence of melodic notes <v Dick Haymes>that you discussed before we did it Alec, it's so beautifully <v Dick Haymes>married to the to the words because a foggy day in London <v Dick Haymes>town had me low had me down. <v Dick Haymes>And then he resolves and I viewed the morning with alarm. <v Dick Haymes>And, you know, it's such a. <v Dick Haymes>Again, I don't actually like the word, but it's such a. <v Dick Haymes>Classy lyric it's it's it's it's. <v Alec Wilder>That's right. <v Dick Haymes>It's it is of an era which no longer exists. <v Alec Wilder>Mhm. <v Dick Haymes>Uh which is a Cole Porter era in in an era of of of people who-. <v Alec Wilder>Innocence. <v Dick Haymes>Of innocence and godlessness and and and and of saying, <v Dick Haymes>excuse me, my name is so-and-so. Do you mind if if we dance?

<v Alec Wilder>That's right. That's right on the nose. <v Dick Haymes>It's it's it's kind of a beautiful, precious moment. <v Dick Haymes>And uh I think uh-. <v Alec Wilder>You didn't worry about muggers in the fog. <v Dick Haymes>No, no, no, no. It was it was it was you know, he was a lonely guy walking in the fog. <v Dick Haymes>And all of a sudden the sun shone and there she was. <v Alec Wilder>Mhm mhm. <v Dick Haymes>Like a beautiful fairy tale. And that's Ira Gershwin. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah but pretty remarkable to start a romantic lyric with the way <v Alec Wilder>you hold-. <v Dick Haymes>the way you hold. <v Alec Wilder>The way you hold your ?unintelligible? Or whether- Was it that the opening line? <v Alec Wilder>Is it the opening line? [singing] The way you wear- <v Dick Haymes>Your hat. <v Alec Wilder>And wear your hair? Well, even that is extraordinary. <v Dick Haymes>The way you wear your hat. <v Alec Wilder>Extraordinary approach to a romantic lyric. <v Dick Haymes>Sure. <v Alec Wilder>No, that's ?harmless? <v Dick Haymes>Yeah, it is. Because again, you can see I'm a film buff. <v Dick Haymes>It is visual. It's saying it's saying there, man, there's a pretty girl. <v Dick Haymes>The whole silhouette is lovely. I love her hands I love the way she picks up a knife. <v Dick Haymes>I love the way she drinks her champagne. <v Alec Wilder>That's right. <v Dick Haymes>And that's what it's all. <v Alec Wilder>No, that's good. <v Dick Haymes>[Singing: They Can't Take That Away From Me]

<v Dick Haymes>.

<v Alec Wilder>That's a that's a pretty song and I love it. <v Alec Wilder>And I I I- There's a-another song, which to me is is even <v Alec Wilder>more extraordinary in its total simplicity, total absence of aggression. <v Alec Wilder>And there is a strange story that I heard from Jerome Hill, a dear, dear friend <v Alec Wilder>who knew George Gershwin, told me that he met him in a they're <v Alec Wilder>both picking up their cars in a parking lot. <v Alec Wilder>And that Mr. Gershwin told my friend that he had <v Alec Wilder>discovered Brahms songs and that he would had a fix about <v Alec Wilder>them and that the songs that he'd been writing recently, he was trying to write in a <v Alec Wilder>Brahmsian fashion. And my friend Jerome Hill assumed <v Alec Wilder>from what Mr. Gershwin said, that one of those songs was Love

<v Alec Wilder>Is Here To Stay. And I don't get it myself because I don't see any association <v Alec Wilder>with anything to do with Brahms. But I do think that he was off on a new tack. <v Alec Wilder>I think he was seeking greater simplicity and pure melodic lines. <v Alec Wilder>It certainly is a pure melody. In fact, it runs the risk of being almost a total cliche. <v Alec Wilder>But I think all precipice walking is valuable. <v Loonis McGlohon>[Piano]. <v Alec Wilder>That's ?unintelligible? simple. <v Loonis McGlohon>Very simple. <v Alec Wilder>Man go ahead. <v Loonis McGlohon>[Piano] it repeats. <v Alec Wilder>No that's that's- you're not danger is is is great in melodic writing, <v Alec Wilder>if you risk the cliche and manage to still make a <v Alec Wilder>a lovely loving statement. And that's one of the ones that does. <v Dick Haymes>Yeah, well, I I heard that uh the verse, which is delightful <v Dick Haymes>and completely in keeping with the chorus of Our Love Is Here To Stay <v Dick Haymes>may have been written posthumously.

<v Dick Haymes>Uh Ira, may I have tacked it on. <v Alec Wilder>With the music himself? Or do you think. <v Dick Haymes>I think so. <v Alec Wilder>Well there was talking about Vernon Duke having. <v Dick Haymes>It's possible. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah. <v Dick Haymes>It's possible. I'm not up on my- <v Alec Wilder>Yeah. <v Dick Haymes>Uh things. <v Alec Wilder>'Cause I know that um uh Vernon added songs to the Goldwin Follies that that was from. <v Dick Haymes>Yeah. Yeah. <v Alec Wilder>But whether he helped out with unfinished songs or not, I don't know. <v Alec Wilder>I don't hear it in the choruses. But he might have. <v Alec Wilder>He might have. <v Dick Haymes>It's possible. <v Loonis McGlohon>Very possible. <v Alec Wilder>'Cause they we're very close ?unintelligible?. <v Dick Haymes>But it might- it's a kind of an interesting thought. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah. <v Dick Haymes>Because the lyric wise, it fits uh. <v Alec Wilder>mhm. <v Dick Haymes>So perfectly, you know. <v Dick Haymes>[Singing: Love Is Here To Stay.] <v Loonis McGlohon>You

<v Loonis McGlohon>know, uh Dick, you have the distinction of having introduced a George Gershwin <v Loonis McGlohon>song and not a no, not great many people who can claim that distinction. <v Dick Haymes>Well, you talk about from the film. <v Loonis McGlohon>Right? <v Dick Haymes>Uh yes, we um. <v Loonis McGlohon>This was um the tune was called For You For Me-. <v Dick Haymes>Forevermore. Which uh I understand was <v Dick Haymes>uh pulled out of the uh George Gershwin trunk uh you <v Dick Haymes>know, posthumously again. <v Dick Haymes>And Ira uh added the lyric, and uh I believe Kay Swift <v Dick Haymes>was was involved in in some of the things in this. <v Dick Haymes>By the way, the name of the picture was The Shocking Miss Pilgrim, which was a darling <v Dick Haymes>picture in which.

<v Dick Haymes>I mean it exactly the way I said it. uh We tried, you know, with the sideburns and <v Dick Haymes>the whole number, but uh it wasn't interested- in- an interesting score. <v Dick Haymes>There was an effort made. And uh I recall uh Alec <v Dick Haymes>asked me if Kay Swift was involved. And I'm sure she must have been because on the <v Dick Haymes>soundstage when we were pre-recording with Alfred Newman um <v Dick Haymes>kay Swift was sitting next to Ira constantly, you know, and giving <v Dick Haymes>a very heavy watch. But uh For You- For You, For Me Forevermore is <v Dick Haymes>a nice song, which uh I sang to Betty sitting on the steps of <v Dick Haymes>a house. <v Dick Haymes>[Singing: For You For Me, <v Dick Haymes>Forevermore.] <v Loonis McGlohon>

<v Loonis McGlohon>One of the Gershwin songs uh from 1938 was uh Love Walked In. <v Loonis McGlohon>Uh Alec there's an interesting phrase uh in the middle of this. <v Loonis McGlohon>[Piano]. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah and also, if it fascinates me about the same thing as the other song, which <v Alec Wilder>was written for the same show. Bilden Follies. <v Alec Wilder>Total simplicity and always in imminent danger of the cliche, <v Alec Wilder>but never it never. <v Alec Wilder>The cliche was avoided just by a hair's breadth. <v Dick Haymes>Well, that's thanks to Ira. <v Alec Wilder>You think so? Along-. <v Dick Haymes>Love walked in.

<v Alec Wilder>Yeah well uh love walked in, the ti- the lyric is marvelous, but the tune still <v Alec Wilder>works. I think it still works. <v Alec Wilder>And if I didn't know the lyric and many times I've heard it in a nice-. <v Dick Haymes>Ah now I know what you're saying. <v Alec Wilder>Alert saying that the tune still is ingratiating and haunting and evocative, <v Alec Wilder>and yet you know that you're on the edge of a cliche the entire time. <v Alec Wilder>I think that, again, say that I think that George Gershwin was searching for <v Alec Wilder>greater simplicity. <v Alec Wilder>Small point, but I loved it. <v Loonis McGlohon>You know, we we've talked about Ira Gershwin and I don't recall whether we've mentioned <v Loonis McGlohon>that this was George's brother or not because somewhere somebody years ago referred <v Loonis McGlohon>to Ira Gershwin because the name, Ira, I guess, could be the way of being listed-. <v Dick Haymes>As a sister? <v Loonis McGlohon>As a sister. <v Dick Haymes>Oh come on. <v Loonis McGlohon>Oh yes-. <v Dick Haymes>No no no. <v Loonis McGlohon>Haven't you ever heard of this? <v Alec Wilder>No I never. <v Loonis McGlohon>George's sister Ira pretty well established among people. <v Loonis McGlohon>I think we need to say that it's George's brother. <v Dick Haymes>Brother I agree. <v Alec Wilder>Well George's sister once told me she was married to Leopold Gadhafi. <v Alec Wilder>He was part inventor of Kodachrome Leopold Mannus.

<v Dick Haymes>What was her name? <v Alec Wilder>Her name was Frankie. <v Dick Haymes>Oh, that's makes it simple. <v Alec Wilder>Makes it simple. <v Dick Haymes>Yeah right. <v Alec Wilder>She once told me that her father was stopped for speeding on some highway around <v Alec Wilder>New York and he got quite irritated. <v Alec Wilder>And he said, my son is Judge Gershwin. <v Alec Wilder>And the man took him seriously and had him go. <v Alec Wilder>I mean, he couldn't pronounce the word "George" quite the way he should have. <v Alec Wilder>It worked. <v Dick Haymes>Beautiful. <v Alec Wilder>Not ?unintelligible. <v Dick Haymes>Yeah. <v Loonis McGlohon>Dick, let's do Love Walked in. <v Dick Haymes>OK <v Dick Haymes>[Singing: Love Walked In.] <v Loonis McGlohon>It's <v Loonis McGlohon>been a lot of fun to explore some.

<v Loonis McGlohon>George Gershwin songs with you Dick Haymes and uh we've probably run out of <v Loonis McGlohon>time uh except for maybe an Alec Wilder song. <v Loonis McGlohon>You know, he did a piece that he refers to as kind of a white version of Lush <v Loonis McGlohon>Life that uh I sure like to hear you do. <v Dick Haymes>Well I think that is a better song than Lush Life Um. <v Dick Haymes>It's an incredible Wilder. <v Dick Haymes>And it's so beautifully singable because it's again <v Dick Haymes>says the words that the music and the words and music are by Alec. <v Dick Haymes>And it's called Night Talk. <v Dick Haymes>[Singing: Night Talk.] <v Alec Wilder>

<v Alec Wilder>Well, now just a minute mister. <v Dick Haymes>Well, I just-. <v Alec Wilder>Not allowed to say anything. <v Dick Haymes>All I want to say is. How about that? <v Loonis McGlohon>Good Lord. <v Dick Haymes>I'm talking about the song. <v Alec Wilder>I'm talking about you and the song and life and the whole thing. <v Alec Wilder>This is really a shattering experience for me. <v Alec Wilder>I'm not kidding you. <v Dick Haymes>But but Alec, th- the whole thing, is that uh I'm only as good as the material which is <v Dick Haymes>stuck in my hand. And there it is, vibrating with life and <v Dick Haymes>beauty and saying something. <v Dick Haymes>And so therefore, the next song we're going to do is a song by Mr. Wilder. <v Dick Haymes>And the lyric is by yourself. <v Dick Haymes>Mr. Loonis McGlohan. <v Dick Haymes>[Singing:] When someone who's near to you says

<v Dick Haymes>it's time to leave. <v Dick Haymes>Because she's so dear to you. <v Dick Haymes>You can't help, but greive. <v Dick Haymes>Where's that laugh that <v Dick Haymes>I recall. <v Dick Haymes>And the hurt when she would fall. <v Dick Haymes>What became of all the toys <v Dick Haymes>and all the posters on the wall. <v Dick Haymes>Did we pack all clutter away? <v Dick Haymes>Wasn't she here yesterday? Where's the song that filled her room

<v Dick Haymes>and the scent of her perfume. <v Dick Haymes>Oh the yard looks empty, there's no one to <v Dick Haymes>play. <v Dick Haymes>Where's the child I used to hold before <v Dick Haymes>the house grew old. <v Dick Haymes>She grew up and now she's moved away. <v Dick Haymes>Did we pack all the blue jeans away?

<v Dick Haymes> <v Dick Haymes>Wasn't she here yesterday? <v Dick Haymes>Where's the song that filled her room. <v Dick Haymes>And the scent of her perfume. <v Dick Haymes>Oh the yard looks empty. <v Dick Haymes>There's no one to play. Where's the child <v Dick Haymes>I used to hold before the house grew old. <v Dick Haymes>She grew up.

<v Dick Haymes>And now she's moved away. <v Alec Wilder>Well, I'm all knocked out again. <v Alec Wilder>Um Loonis it's a perfect lyric. <v Alec Wilder>And I don't know if you realize you've never had a repeated phrase in it. <v Alec Wilder>So that when I played it up in New York for a very nice man who <v Alec Wilder>became very emotional upon hearing it, we suddenly realized that there was no title. <v Alec Wilder>And so we went through the whole lyric until we found a line that seemed to express what <v Alec Wilder>the song did say, and we came upon that phrase, <v Alec Wilder>"The child I used to hold." And I guess that's the title. <v Alec Wilder>And it's-. <v Loonis McGlohon>Just pleased it got a title. <v Alec Wilder>And it's a very beautiful um uh uh- <v Dick Haymes>No, I think it fits. It fits because it.

<v Dick Haymes>Is the child within me I used to hold and also the child who left I used to hold. <v Dick Haymes>And uh it's a it's a lovely title. <v Alec Wilder>Well, I'm tickled silly because I only had a part of a song done and you chained me to <v Alec Wilder>the piano and made me finish it. And then-. <v Dick Haymes>I think you should do that more often. This man is-is uh you got to express <v Dick Haymes>himself because uh he expresses nothing but beauty. <v Alec Wilder>That's very, very sweet of you. <v Loonis McGlohon>Thank you, Dick Haymes for the singing some Alec Wilder songs and some <v Loonis McGlohon>George Gershwin songs. <v Loonis McGlohon>And hurry up and come back. <v Announcer>Your guide or these weekly sessions of American popular song is the distinguished <v Announcer>composer and songwriter Alec Wilder. <v Announcer>Joining him today were singer Dick Haymes and songwriter Loonis McGlohon. <v Announcer>American popular song is a production of the South Carolina Educational Radio Network

<v Announcer>and is made possible by a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts, directed by <v Announcer>Dick Phipps, executive producer William D. <v Announcer>Hey. <v Announcer>Additional funds for distribution of this program provided by the Corporation for Public <v Announcer>Broadcasting. This is NPR National Public Radio.