American Popular Songs with Alec Wilder & Friends; Marlene VerPlanck sings Hugh Martin

<v Alec Wilder>I've heard that from fairly good source that when he was <v Alec Wilder>riding with Ralph Blaine that their manager or their publicist suggested that <v Alec Wilder>they uh divide up the credits and that Blaine always <v Alec Wilder>claimed the lyrics and Hugh Martin of music. <v Alec Wilder>But uh I heard that they wrote separately complete songs <v Alec Wilder>and that nevertheless they divided them up and still kept the music lyric <v Alec Wilder>credit one. <v Alec Wilder>And I would think that songs like um <v Alec Wilder>like Ev'ry Time would be all of Hugh's. <v Alec Wilder>Just if this allegation is true, I would think that every time would be <v Alec Wilder>Hugh because it's gentleness in melodically and lyrically i-is are <v Alec Wilder>more like Martin than Blaine. <v Alec Wilder>Blaine was an extravert he and Martin's really a ve-very introverted guy. <v Speaker 2>We invite you now to spend an hour with American composer and songwriter Alec Wilder

<v Speaker 2>and friends as they discuss and perform American popular song <v Speaker 2>with Mr. Wilder at the piano is his colleague and fellow songwriter Loonis McGlohon. <v Speaker 2>And today's special guest, popular song stylist and jazz singer Miss Marlene <v Speaker 2>Verplanck. Our subject, the songs of Hugh Martin. <v McGlohon>I guess everybody in the world knows that song is called Trolley Song and it was <v McGlohon>associated with Judy Garland. <v McGlohon>I'm not sure how many people know it was written by Hugh Martin. <v McGlohon>But uh today, Alec Wilder, we've got uh you an expert on <v McGlohon>Hugh Martin. And we've got uh-uh Billy Verplanck , very talented uh <v McGlohon>composer, arranger, uh record producer. <v McGlohon>And uh his wife, Marlenene Verplanck, who probably has one of the best <v McGlohon>known voices in the world singing voices, but quite often

<v McGlohon>the public doesn't get to hear Marlene um sing Hugh Martin <v McGlohon>songs. So it's a pleasure to have you Marlene. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh, The pleasure is mine. Believe me hehe. <v McGlohon>Uh I know that uh in your book, Alec, you've devoted a large section <v McGlohon>to Hugh Martin. So you must agree uh you must feel that he's one <v McGlohon>of the great writers. <v Alec Wilder>I really do. And I know that I was very happy <v Alec Wilder>for me to find out that he had no idea that I was going to say anything at all about <v Alec Wilder>him in the book. <v Alec Wilder>And he wrote me a very touching letter um telling me about his uh <v Alec Wilder>revival of faith in himself as a result of what I wrote him. <v Alec Wilder>Now this isn't supposed to be self touting it just it's a comment on his modesty that <v Alec Wilder>never occurred to him that he would be written about. <v Alec Wilder>Um He certainly had to know he had talent because it was <v Alec Wilder>obvious every time he wrote a song. <v Alec Wilder>But as a-. <v McGlohon>He's not a household word though, you know this <v Alec Wilder>No, no, no. He's an inside writer.

<v Alec Wilder>You mention the name Hugh Martin to the even the the average layman listener. <v Alec Wilder>They don't know. <v Billy Verplanck>He's probably one of the best kept secrets in music, I think. <v Billy Verplanck>Sadly to say. Uh, yuh <v Alec Wilder>Didn't you tell me, Billy, that you weren't aware of all the songs that <v Alec Wilder>you recently heard? <v Billy Verplanck>Yes, I tell you, when uh we were asked to do this uh program <v Billy Verplanck>and uh Dick Phipps uh kindly told us to get out all-all these songs <v Billy Verplanck>together really uh. <v McGlohon>You had trouble finding them. ?inaudible? <v Billy Verplanck>Yes, we did. There were things that they they were just forgotten <v Alec Wilder>Oh yes, out of print. <v Billy Verplanck>Out of print. <v Marlene Verplanck>We had trouble finding them. But it was sure a ball going through. <v Billy Verplanck>And of course, uh you know, and then playing it, playing over the lead sheets and, uh you <v Billy Verplanck>know, getting into the song it's just absolutely amazing. <v Billy Verplanck>What a wonderful craftsman the man is. <v McGlohon>Well, I'll tell you, I- you know, I'm about to burst out ready to burst out with a Hugh <v McGlohon>Martin song Marlene I hope you are. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh, I'm always ready. <v McGlohon>You know, the tune uh from Make-A-Wish called What I Was Warned About. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: What I was warned about

<v McGlohon>Marleen, it was great to hear you sing a Hugh Martin song.

<v McGlohon>You know we said earlier you probably have one of the best known voices in the world. <v McGlohon>But uh most of the time uh you uh are heard doing <v McGlohon>radio and television n jingles and commercials,. <v Marlene Verplanck>Mostly commercials, right. <v McGlohon>Right <v Marlene Verplanck>Um it is fun to sing something longer than 60 seconds. <v Marlene Verplanck>It really is. <v Marlene Verplanck>Um these songs are right in the meat of everything I want to do. <v Marlene Verplanck>They are really great. <v McGlohon>From High Spirits there's a song. Uh And I have to confess I uh that many of these songs <v McGlohon>I didn't know of Hugh Martin's and it was great to get uh introduced to them, but <v McGlohon>this one is particularly charming. Alec, this tune from High Spirits, which <v McGlohon>is called If I Gave You. <v Alec Wilder>And I have to admit, I didn't know it. <v Alec Wilder>I went through all I thought of his songs and I don't know how I happened to miss this <v Alec Wilder>one. Maybe the copy wasn't available or something. <v Alec Wilder>I think it's a perfectly adorable song. <v Alec Wilder>It's like a madrigal. <v Marlene Verplanck>I saw the show and it was it's just absolutely one of my favorite shows <v Marlene Verplanck>because all the music was just so really, really wonderful. <v Marlene Verplanck>Uh This this this worked so well on the show and as everything else

<v Marlene Verplanck>did. And it was just one of my favorite all time shows. <v McGlohon>This has almost the folk like quality has. <v Alec Wilder>Even better than folk like it's almost. <v Alec Wilder>It's almost uh it's uh it's in the best sense of the word mannered because it's like a <v Alec Wilder>formal dance. It's like an um a-an18th century dance almost. <v Alec Wilder>It's it's uh out of uh its time. <v Alec Wilder>It's old. It's um uh- <v Marlene Verplanck>Well, in the show, you see, uh she comes back ?from? <v Marlene Verplanck>time. So that's that's eh tha-that's, you know, brought it all together. <v Marlene Verplanck>She she's like a spirit. Eh you know, that's what she is. <v Marlene Verplanck>She comes back as a spirit and and drives him crazy again. <v Alec Wilder>Oh, yes. And I should mention, I persuaded <v Alec Wilder>um Marlene to sing both sets of lyrics, even though the first one was for a boy and <v Alec Wilder>the second one was for a girl. <v McGlohon>I'm glad you did. <v Alec Wilder>Well, they're both so beautiful that uh I I used as an authority um Mabel <v Alec Wilder>Mercer, who always feels that doesn't matter. <v McGlohon>Well, I'm glad we're going to have a chance to hear both sets of lyrics. <v McGlohon>We would have had been cheated otherwise, Marlene.

<v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: If I Gave You <v McGlohon>There was a film uh in 1955 Alec uh that had a Hugh Martin

<v McGlohon>tune called An Occasional Man, and I think every musician likes very much <v McGlohon>whether or not ?inaudible? <v Alec Wilder>Was that in the show? I thought that was a separate song. Oh That was in a film. That's right. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah. He told me about that. I asked him about that because the title was so <v Alec Wilder>extraordinary. He told me he picked it up when he was down visiting home. <v Alec Wilder>He comes from Birmingham and uh and uh they had a lady came in to <v Alec Wilder>cook, I guess. And she didn't stay. <v Alec Wilder>You know, she just came in by the day. And to get back home, she had to walk through some <v Alec Wilder>woods. And uh he he said to her, one time, he said, aren't you scared <v Alec Wilder>walking through the woods? You know, you don't know what's going to happen. <v Alec Wilder>She said, no, no, no problem at all. These people, you know, you could be uh all kinds of <v Alec Wilder>crazy things can happen. People wandering around she said, no, no, I've no problem. <v Alec Wilder>We just see such an occasional man. <v All>[Laugh] <v Alec Wilder>And he said, I had to use it. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh that's the greatest. <v McGlohon>What a great title. <v Alec Wilder>It is! <v McGlohon>It's a very curious song. <v Alec Wilder>Yes, it is. And I'm- That section- <v Marlene Verplanck>And it's also fun to sing.

<v McGlohon>Yes, I bet it is <v Alec Wilder>There is a fourth or fifth measure in there that are unpredictable and they must <v Alec Wilder>be strange, I mean they're strange in that- <v McGlohon>Well this is the ?inaudible? it's like right here I think. <v Alec Wilder>That's- <v McGlohon>[piano riff] <v Alec Wilder>Yeah, that's it. <v McGlohon>I don't know if that occurs any other song. <v Alec Wilder>Never before in my life, never. Or anything like it. <v Billy Verplanck>Yes, the law is the harmonization of the harmonic sca- minor scale <v Billy Verplanck>just perfectly done. You know, you always- when you're learning the harmonic scale, you <v Billy Verplanck>go up and play the triads and you always- the third quarter's augmented. <v Billy Verplanck>And I don't think it's ever used anywhere it's very true. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: An Occasional Man <v McGlohon>You are for Loving, um is a tune.

<v McGlohon>I didn't know, Alec, at all. What does it come from? <v Alec Wilder>Well, it's um a it's a song Hugh wrote for the revival of Best Foot Forward. <v Alec Wilder>And I think it's one of most beautiful love songs I've ever heard in my life. <v Marlene Verplanck>Agreed. <v Alec Wilder>I couldn't believe it. And I didn't even know about it. <v Alec Wilder>'Cause I didn't go to the revival. <v Alec Wilder>I just happened to hear about the song and I just broke it literally broke my heart. <v Alec Wilder>I damn near wept just looking at the piano copy. <v Marlene Verplanck>It is a gorgeous-. <v McGlohon>Yeah a beautiful line. <v McGlohon>[piano riff] This soars don't it. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah. Here. <v Alec Wilder>That no. That no. <v Alec Wilder>That no tha-that that's <v Marlene Verplanck>That's a very soulful thing. It's just it's just-. <v Alec Wilder>That's to me credibly, readily used to be call inspiration here. <v Marlene Verplanck>It's an incredibly- Uh it is! A very soulful melody. <v McGlohon>Yeah it is. <v Billy Verplanck>Yeah. You know, it's uh it's just an aside. <v Billy Verplanck>But uh they were talking uh, Ralph Blane, when we saw him at the YMHA Lyrics and <v Billy Verplanck>lyricist, mentioned uh a uh thing about buckled down

<v Billy Verplanck>when ?socket? And how it happened. They were trying to find a title for the uh <v Billy Verplanck>for this college picture they were doing. And Harry Cohn said to me, he says well I got <v Billy Verplanck>to have something with Sock in it. <v Billy Verplanck>You know it does- whatever you-you none of this has got sock to it, he says. <v Billy Verplanck>So uh- <v Marlene Verplanck>I think they had Winton College. <v Billy Verplanck>Winton College. Yeah. It was like something like that something a very, very plain thing. <v Billy Verplanck>They said, well, why not buckle down ?when sarki? <v Billy Verplanck>Then said-. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah. <v Alec Wilder>I- It was almost unbelievable to me when I heard the title. <v Alec Wilder>I just couldn't figure it. <v McGlohon>No <v Alec Wilder>You know, some Polish college up in the mountains <v All>[laughter]. <v Alec Wilder>You know, it was a little odd, just a little odd story about that Best Foot Forward. <v Alec Wilder>Hugh once said to me, how could you write a song called Who Can I Turn To? <v Alec Wilder>Because it's ungrammatical. <v Alec Wilder>It should be Whom can I Turn- I said. And I said, well, whom doesn't mean anything. <v Alec Wilder>Who is the equivalent of why, where, how? <v Alec Wilder>And Mildred Bailey gave it to me, and I respect her. <v Alec Wilder>Whom, has no romantic um connotations.

<v Alec Wilder>Uh and I said and by the way, why didn't you call it Better Foot Forward. <v All>[laugh]. <v Alec Wilder> How many do you have. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: You are for Loving <v Alec Wilder>That was absolutely perfect. And I'm gonna have to ask Mr. Phipps.

<v Alec Wilder>Let me have just if nothing else. <v Alec Wilder>I'm going to keep something for once in my life. <v Alec Wilder>I don't keep anything but that I want to keep that piece of tape because that's the song <v Alec Wilder>that's it '. <v McGlohon>That was very nice Marlene. <v Marlene Verplanck>Thank you, and fun to do. <v McGlohon>Uh there's a tune uh called Ev'ry Time, that I think maybe a little more familiar to the <v McGlohon>public. <v Marlene Verplanck>It's also from the same show. <v McGlohon>Yes. <v Alec Wilder>The original production? <v McGlohon>The original, right. <v Marlene Verplanck>But it's a wonderful song. <v Alec Wilder>Sure is. <v McGlohon>Curiously, though, it has a lot of uh repetition um. <v Alec Wilder>You mean repeated notes? <v McGlohon>Yes. <v Alec Wilder>Which I made a speech about in that book, which I take back in terms of the song because <v Alec Wilder>the repeated notes worked. In this case, they're not aggressive repeated notes. <v McGlohon>[piano riff] <v Alec Wilder>Absolutely, marvelous. I don't know why I. <v Alec Wilder>I think this is a terribly tender and and and dear and un- <v Alec Wilder>there's no up- um uh I said I wasn't gonna mention the name, but I <v Alec Wilder>don't think that even Ms. Streisand could make a um <v Alec Wilder>wagner aria out of this one.

<v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: Ev'ry Time

<v McGlohon>Judy Garland was fortunate enough to get um some Hugh Martin <v McGlohon>songs in a film and the- <v Alec Wilder>Sure, Lloyd Lucky. <v Billy Verplanck>Well, he was lucky too, because the way she did it <v Marlene Verplanck>Ugh no one no one sings the Trolley Song The Boy Next Door. <v Marlene Verplanck>No one could sing those things like she did. <v Marlene Verplanck>I don't think anyone should dare to. <v McGlohon>And and there's a tune called Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas- <v Marlene Verplanck>A Merry Little Christmas Here. Oh, it's a wonderful song. <v McGlohon>Which uh was done so poignantly. <v McGlohon>In- in the film. The film clips that uh still are available of <v McGlohon>Judy singing that song is a marvelous Christmas song. <v McGlohon>Mm hmm. <v Marlene Verplanck>It's one of the few Christmas songs other than White Christmas or Rudolph the Red <v Marlene Verplanck>Nosed Reindeer or something that has really sustained through the years. <v McGlohon>It has a very, oh, sad quality about it. <v Alec Wilder>That's Right. It's almost as if you were afraid they weren't going to have one.

<v Marlene Verplanck>Right. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas. <v McGlohon>The boy next door, which comes from the same film, is probably Hugh Martin's best known

<v McGlohon>song, of all. Isn't it? <v Alec Wilder>I think so, I think so. <v Marlene Verplanck>Probably one of the best songs too yeah. <v Alec Wilder>Oh, yeah, sure. <v McGlohon>And it's got uh a device that he must have liked very much. <v McGlohon>Called a flatted fifth. <v Marlene Verplanck>Yeah, he sure love that flatted fifth interval. <v McGlohon>This was the first few bars sound liked. <v McGlohon>[piano riff] <v Alec Wilder>Well, it's like a suspension. <v Alec Wilder>It is a suspension. And, you know, it's going to lead someplace, but you're, you know, <v Alec Wilder>not quite sure it is it's gonna make it and it does. <v Alec Wilder>And that's total fulfillment when it gets to the from the C-sharp to the deep B to <v Alec Wilder>the C. <v McGlohon>Well, it's a it's just a beautiful, beautiful song-. <v Alec Wilder>Including the verse. <v Marlene Verplanck>And the verse of this- yeah the verse has got to be one of the greatest verses of all <v Marlene Verplanck>time it's-. <v Alec Wilder>That's right. <v McGlohon>And particularly singing alone ?undressed? too. <v Marlene Verplanck>Right, right right <v All>?unintelligible? <v Speaker>?Unintelligible? heartbreaking. Abs- She'd make- I admit it's heartbreaking. <v Marlene Verplanck>It is because all you can do is picture Judy Garland.

<v Marlene Verplanck>And she was like the real young Angelou at this time in that <v Marlene Verplanck>movie, remembering her performance of that thing. <v Marlene Verplanck>Is - it takes. It just has to grab you. <v Marlene Verplanck>It has to. I know it grabs me because I I find it hard just to collect <v Marlene Verplanck>myself to get into the song at the moment. <v Billy Verplanck>Yeah, not only that, like I mean, y-you think of uh how Tin Pan Alley people wrote <v Billy Verplanck>songs to come out with an interval so bare like that. <v Billy Verplanck>And so really dissonant. <v Billy Verplanck>And when it resolves itself it's such a marvelous glow. <v Billy Verplanck>And the courage that uh or I don't think he was even aware of it. <v Billy Verplanck>It just had to be. And it just couldn't be anything else. <v Billy Verplanck>And I thank God that he did. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: The Boy Next Door <v McGlohon>I wish everybody could have been here to see you do that Marlene because it was for uh

<v McGlohon>all of us in this room, a very emotional experience. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh, thank you. <v Marlene Verplanck>It was- it is an emotional song. <v McGlohon>Well, Billy and I both have had the pleasure of <v McGlohon>working with Miss Garland, and you cannot have ever seen this woman <v McGlohon>and not have been touched. <v Marlene Verplanck>I agree. I agree. She's super, super star. <v McGlohon>As opposed. You know, I think she had a communication um <v McGlohon>that was partly visual, which might get us into <v McGlohon>an area of this next song I know was performed by Lena Horne. <v McGlohon>So Hugh Martin's song from Ziegfeld Follies. <v McGlohon>And Lena Horne is a very visual performer, I think. <v Billy Verplanck>Yeah. I I would agree. I. I played her show for uh six weeks at the uh <v Billy Verplanck>Waldorf. And it was I think was one of the last times of just before Lenny Haden <v Billy Verplanck>died. But I never really cared for her singing too much

<v Billy Verplanck>until I saw her perform. And she when she performed, she doesn't <v Billy Verplanck>perform in the usual sense. <v Billy Verplanck>She stalks would be more like it. <v Billy Verplanck>I mean, when she walk around the uh. <v Alec Wilder>Oh my God the high authority. <v Billy Verplanck>Yeah. <v McGlohon>And a lot of animal. <v Marlene Verplanck>Yeah. <v Billy Verplanck>Yeah. <v Billy Verplanck>Well, I remember there was one one case uh there's a song called Get Rid of Mundie <v Billy Verplanck>and she has a very explosive delivery on it. <v Billy Verplanck>And there was this Midwestern man. <v Billy Verplanck>And it was during the uh you know, the uh the dinner hour we-we're playing, you know, <v Billy Verplanck>usually people are eating and they don't care what's going on. <v Billy Verplanck>And this little man had a bow tie. <v Billy Verplanck>And I remember he was eating his soup and he did. <v Billy Verplanck>He went and he was put on the dance floor. <v Billy Verplanck>And Lena, you know, out of her, I. And everybody in the band knew that some awful is <v Billy Verplanck>gonna happen to this poor little guy. And he sensed it and he didn't know what was going <v Billy Verplanck>to happen. And she's going through the opening number and she's like looking at <v Billy Verplanck>the side of her eye. And we know that something terrible is gonna have we didn't know <v Billy Verplanck>what I was the third tune was get rid of Mundie.

<v Billy Verplanck>And uh she's stalking across the stage, doing a thing, moving <v Billy Verplanck>terrible. And she gets up to this guy and she says, get rid of Mondie. <v Billy Verplanck>And the soup and everything went all over the man and he just sat there frozen through <v Billy Verplanck>the rest of the show. I never got over that. <v Billy Verplanck>And she and she wasn't disturbed. <v Billy Verplanck>She just walked away. And as if nothing ever happened. <v Billy Verplanck>I she doesn't ?unintelligible? . <v Marlene Verplanck>You remember that performance of Love? <v Marlene Verplanck>You know, this humo- from what she did in the movie. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh my- It was a a moving experience. <v McGlohon>Yes. It's a strange song. This uh it's a production. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh it's a wonderful song <v Speaker>It's a production number. It's not really a a popular song. <v Alec Wilder>Oh, no, no. Right. Right. It. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: Love <v McGlohon>That was a workout for all of us.

<v Alec Wilder>No, well, with all deference to him, Ms. Harn, this thing was really strong. <v Alec Wilder>And you yourself. You know, and and Jim, like all of you, played like madmen <v Alec Wilder>. <v McGlohon>Thank you Terry for good bass notes. <v Alec Wilder>No, just marvelous performance. <v Alec Wilder>Really a unique performance. <v Alec Wilder>Every one of you. <v Marlene Verplanck>Thank you. <v McGlohon>Well, it was a guess of a song to do. <v Marlene Verplanck>It sure was. <v Marlene Verplanck>We're, getting into the back into this section of his Broadway show called High Spirits. <v Marlene Verplanck>And that, of course, was based on the Noel Coward show, Glide Spirit. <v Marlene Verplanck>And in the show, it was the most fun part of the show, I think, where she comes down <v Marlene Verplanck>and haunts her husband from heaven. <v Marlene Verplanck>And he's now married to another lady. <v Marlene Verplanck>And uh she sings this song called You Better Love Me, which is you <v Marlene Verplanck>know one of my really favorite songs of Hugh Martin's. <v Marlene Verplanck>And I'd like to do-. <v McGlohon>The set up verse, which uh ?unintelligible?. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh, yeah, like she comes- well ?unintelligible? well well it tells a story <v Marlene Verplanck>It does tell the story and uh it's just uh uh you know <v Marlene Verplanck>self-evident there.

<v Alec Wilder>By the way, uh Noel Coward directed this show. <v Alec Wilder>High spirits because they worked with him on the musical version of it to get his advice <v Alec Wilder>as to where to cut lines and where to change scenes and everything else. <v Alec Wilder>And he got so involved with it that he came over here and directed it. <v Alec Wilder>I think you'll see it on the even on the on the piano copy. <v Alec Wilder>It says directed by Noel Coward. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: You Better Love Me <v McGlohon>I enjoyed playing a chart on that Marlene.

<v Marlene Verplanck>Oh Thank you. That's um- <v McGlohon>I know you do that in your club right. <v Marlene Verplanck>Yeah, we do. <v McGlohon>And working on this show, I was um flabbergasted, to <v McGlohon>run across the tune I'd never heard of called Tiny Room. <v Alec Wilder>Oh, yeah that's glorious <v McGlohon>And which seems to have the same device that the boy next door has. <v Alec Wilder>That's right. <v Marlene Verplanck>But it's turned it around a little bit. Yeah. <v McGlohon>Right it's reverse. <v Alec Wilder>Well, that's completely vanished. <v Alec Wilder>That song, simply because they took it out of Look Ma I'm Dancing and it's had no life at <v Alec Wilder>all. I don't you know. It obviously has been recorded at one time or another, but um <v Alec Wilder>it's not pa- part of the standard catalog at all. <v Alec Wilder>You ask most musicians, they never heard of it? <v McGlohon>No. <v Alec Wilder>Even a guy like Jimmy Rolls who knows every song in the world has never heard of it. <v McGlohon>I think uh Billy, when he looked at the leaves, he was making comments about how- <v Alec Wilder>Did you ever did you ever hear of it. <v Billy Verplanck>No, not so-. No until it's-. <v Alec Wilder>I think it's a very, very special song. And I don't know why it was taken out. <v Alec Wilder>I think it's a tragedy because I suppose it's, you know, the time element and <v Alec Wilder>sometimes in shows they just run over and they grab a song and take it out or didn't fit <v Alec Wilder>a situation. I mean, that's tragic to me because it vanishes. <v McGlohon>Yes. But, you know, it might be interesting again to to illustrate that flatted

<v McGlohon>fifth device instead of uh um uh [plays piano] uh, It <v McGlohon>goes like this. [plays piano]. In this case <v McGlohon>at third bar would have been the fifth would have been [piano] that's much more <v McGlohon>interesting to have done it [piano]. <v Marlene Verplanck>I think might might be fun just to show the boy next door now as in. <v Marlene Verplanck>Contrast to that. <v McGlohon>Yeah okay um [piano] Instead <v McGlohon>of the fifth would have been. <v McGlohon>[piano]. <v Alec Wilder>Nothing. <v McGlohon>Right. <v Marlene Verplanck>Right. <v McGlohon>Well, let's do some flatted fifth and (unintelligible) <v Marlene Verplanck>(Laugh) Okay. <v Alec Wilder>And a lot more too <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: Tiny Room <v Alec Wilder>Yeah. Thank you very much, Marlene. I think it's- you did it again.

<v Alec Wilder>That's another piece of tape I want in my suitcase. <v Billy Verplanck>Isn't that the truth? <v Alec Wilder>It's an adorable song. <v Marlene Verplanck>Yeah, it's it's really pretty. <v Marlene Verplanck>When I first looked at the lyric, uh I I was just reading <v Marlene Verplanck>it down and it said in a cubicle six by eight. <v Marlene Verplanck>And I said, oh I haven't seen the show, but they couldn't have been in jail could they? <v Marlene Verplanck>I mean, I just didn't know what to think in my first reading. <v Marlene Verplanck>And then, of course. <v Alec Wilder>You've never been poor. <v Marlene Verplanck>I had checked it out and then I asked a friend of mine who is quite knowledgeable on <v Marlene Verplanck>shows. And I said, What? What do you know the sequence of this uh song in the show? <v Marlene Verplanck>And uh I think he said the same thing, that it was taken out of the show. <v Marlene Verplanck>But but no. That sure enough, they weren't in jail. <v Marlene Verplanck>They were just in a little room. <v McGlohon>No. this too pretty for (unintelligible) <v Marlene Verplanck>Getting to know each other. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah the room was too pretty no curtains in jail. <v McGlohon>As opposed to that kind of a song. <v McGlohon>There's another song. I Know Your Heart Again from High Spirits, I <v McGlohon>guess, which is is completely different from uh Tiny Room, or Boy <v McGlohon>Next Door.

<v Alec Wilder>All right (unintelligible) <v McGlohon>It sounds like uh I Know Your Heart sounds like it should have been written for the Count <v McGlohon>Basie Band <v Marlene Verplanck>But yeah, it's it's got a wonderful lilt to it. <v McGlohon>Yeah, it's like uh-. <v Billy Verplanck>Hey, listen, don't forget, there's another very interesting thing, that final cadence in <v Billy Verplanck>the uh in the second uh 16 bars, he goes <v Billy Verplanck>to the flatted fifth again, only downward. <v McGlohon>Oh does he. <v Billy Verplanck>Yeah, (singing) I know your heart by <v Billy Verplanck>heart. <v McGlohon>Oh yeah. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh yeah yeah <v Billy Verplanck>Yes. I've never heard that done once. <v Marlene Verplanck>[singing softly] I know your heart by heart <v Alec Wilder>It's definitely Martin. I don't- I think I know. <v Alec Wilder>And I can't think of a title on the song but I've seen it only one other place in my <v Alec Wilder>life. Maybe Vernon Duke. I can't remember. <v Alec Wilder>But it's ab- almost unprecedented. <v McGlohon>Well th-the the it's uh marked. Uh,the song is constructed so much like C ount Basie <v McGlohon>things that starting after the downbeat be like one. <v McGlohon>[piano] <v Alec Wilder>It's definitely the basics. Yeah, that's right. <v McGlohon>[Singing] buh do buh do bah doo. <v Marlene Verplanck>And it's a fun song to sing because it is so rhythmical, you know, it's a subtle rhythm,

<v Marlene Verplanck>but it's there. <v Alec Wilder>It just builds and builds. It's just it's just a fun song. <v Alec Wilder>I mean, what a wonderful sense of life. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: I Know Your Heart

<v Marlene Verplanck>Well, I think that kind of rounds out this program of all these Hugh Martin songs, I <v Marlene Verplanck>mean, I know we. <v McGlohon>That's all you brought you mean- that's all you brought along with you. <v McGlohon> <v Marlene Verplanck>Right. I know we've only touched upon this music, but I was looking at some <v Marlene Verplanck>other songbooks in my search for all this music. <v Marlene Verplanck>And I came across a really obscure song written by <v Marlene Verplanck>an obscure songwriter. <v Marlene Verplanck>And uh it's a very unusual and haunting melody. <v Marlene Verplanck>And with your permission, I'd like to close the show with The Winter of my Discontent. <v Alec Wilder>Oh ho. <v McGlohon>Alright I'll be written by, oh, I happen- we happen to know the man. <v Marlene Verplanck>Just happen to know who wrote that right? <v Alec Wilder>Oh that's very interesting you should you go do that song, it's a strange <v Alec Wilder>one. You're right, because I got the lyric from a fellow that if you'd ever met <v Alec Wilder>him, you wouldn't believe it. He's a most unlikely man to have written this this lyric.

<v Alec Wilder>And I don't know quite why I said it, because it was strange words like resonance <v Alec Wilder>and dissonance and odd words that uh- But it's an angry song <v Marlene Verplanck>But it's a haunting melody. <v Marlene Verplanck>It's a very haunting thing. <v Marlene Verplanck>Um, you know, you hear it once and all of a sudden this thing just keeps going around in <v Marlene Verplanck>your brain. I know it was going around in mine. <v Alec Wilder>Really? <v Marlene Verplanck>Yes, it was. And it was kind of in my sleep. <v Marlene Verplanck>I was still, you know, running over that melody in my head. <v Marlene Verplanck>And I said, I'd like to really, you know, work on this. <v McGlohon>It was a lovely song. <v Alec Wilder>Well now now listen I apologize ahead of time for the baseline. <v McGlohon>I will try to play the baseline correctly. <v Marlene Verplanck>And it must be done right. <v Alec Wilder>And I mean- I mean it has a life of its own <v McGlohon>I'm very nervous, but I will try. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: The Winter of My Discontent

<v McGlohon>Marlene Verplanck, Billy Verplanck, it was great to have you help

<v McGlohon>us uh work on the Hugh Martin Show <v Billy Verplanck>Oh, gee it was- <v Marlene Verplanck>This is the most enjoyable hour I have spent in. <v Marlene Verplanck>I can't remember when. <v McGlohon>Since last week? <v Marlene Verplanck>No. And I I just want to thank you for having us. <v Marlene Verplanck>And Alec it's been a wonderful, wonderful experience. <v Alec Wilder>Well, thank you for singing that song. <v Billy Verplanck>So thank you very much. Band uh the time and swing was just so <v Billy Verplanck>beautiful it's the world we want to live in. <v Announcer>Your guide for these weekly sessions of American popular song is the distinguished <v Announcer>composer and songwriter Alec Wilder, joining him today, where singer Marlene <v Announcer>Verplanck and songwriter Loonis McGlohon, an American popular song, is <v Announcer>a production of the South Carolina Educational Radio Network and is made possible by <v Announcer>a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts, directed by Dick Phipps,

<v Announcer>executive producer William D. <v Announcer>Hey. <v Announcer>Additional funds for distribution of this program provided by the Corporation for Public <v Announcer>Broadcasting. This is NPR National Public Radio.