thumbnail of American Popular Songs with Alec Wilder & Friends; Marlene VerPlanck sings Hugh Martin
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<v Alec Wilder>I've heard that from fairly good source that when he was <v Alec Wilder>riding with Ralph Blaine that their manager or their publicist suggested that <v Alec Wilder>they uh divide up the credits and that Blaine always <v Alec Wilder>claimed the lyrics and Hugh Martin of music. <v Alec Wilder>But uh I heard that they wrote separately complete songs <v Alec Wilder>and that nevertheless they divided them up and still kept the music lyric <v Alec Wilder>credit one. <v Alec Wilder>And I would think that songs like um <v Alec Wilder>like Ev'ry Time would be all of Hugh's. <v Alec Wilder>Just if this allegation is true, I would think that every time would be <v Alec Wilder>Hugh because it's gentleness in melodically and lyrically i-is are <v Alec Wilder>more like Martin than Blaine. <v Alec Wilder>Blaine was an extravert he and Martin's really a ve-very introverted guy. <v Speaker 2>We invite you now to spend an hour with American composer and songwriter Alec Wilder
<v Speaker 2>and friends as they discuss and perform American popular song <v Speaker 2>with Mr. Wilder at the piano is his colleague and fellow songwriter Loonis McGlohon. <v Speaker 2>And today's special guest, popular song stylist and jazz singer Miss Marlene <v Speaker 2>Verplanck. Our subject, the songs of Hugh Martin. <v McGlohon>I guess everybody in the world knows that song is called Trolley Song and it was <v McGlohon>associated with Judy Garland. <v McGlohon>I'm not sure how many people know it was written by Hugh Martin. <v McGlohon>But uh today, Alec Wilder, we've got uh you an expert on <v McGlohon>Hugh Martin. And we've got uh-uh Billy Verplanck , very talented uh <v McGlohon>composer, arranger, uh record producer. <v McGlohon>And uh his wife, Marlenene Verplanck, who probably has one of the best <v McGlohon>known voices in the world singing voices, but quite often
<v McGlohon>the public doesn't get to hear Marlene um sing Hugh Martin <v McGlohon>songs. So it's a pleasure to have you Marlene. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh, The pleasure is mine. Believe me hehe. <v McGlohon>Uh I know that uh in your book, Alec, you've devoted a large section <v McGlohon>to Hugh Martin. So you must agree uh you must feel that he's one <v McGlohon>of the great writers. <v Alec Wilder>I really do. And I know that I was very happy <v Alec Wilder>for me to find out that he had no idea that I was going to say anything at all about <v Alec Wilder>him in the book. <v Alec Wilder>And he wrote me a very touching letter um telling me about his uh <v Alec Wilder>revival of faith in himself as a result of what I wrote him. <v Alec Wilder>Now this isn't supposed to be self touting it just it's a comment on his modesty that <v Alec Wilder>never occurred to him that he would be written about. <v Alec Wilder>Um He certainly had to know he had talent because it was <v Alec Wilder>obvious every time he wrote a song. <v Alec Wilder>But as a-. <v McGlohon>He's not a household word though, you know this <v Alec Wilder>No, no, no. He's an inside writer.
<v Alec Wilder>You mention the name Hugh Martin to the even the the average layman listener. <v Alec Wilder>They don't know. <v Billy Verplanck>He's probably one of the best kept secrets in music, I think. <v Billy Verplanck>Sadly to say. Uh, yuh <v Alec Wilder>Didn't you tell me, Billy, that you weren't aware of all the songs that <v Alec Wilder>you recently heard? <v Billy Verplanck>Yes, I tell you, when uh we were asked to do this uh program <v Billy Verplanck>and uh Dick Phipps uh kindly told us to get out all-all these songs <v Billy Verplanck>together really uh. <v McGlohon>You had trouble finding them. ?inaudible? <v Billy Verplanck>Yes, we did. There were things that they they were just forgotten <v Alec Wilder>Oh yes, out of print. <v Billy Verplanck>Out of print. <v Marlene Verplanck>We had trouble finding them. But it was sure a ball going through. <v Billy Verplanck>And of course, uh you know, and then playing it, playing over the lead sheets and, uh you <v Billy Verplanck>know, getting into the song it's just absolutely amazing. <v Billy Verplanck>What a wonderful craftsman the man is. <v McGlohon>Well, I'll tell you, I- you know, I'm about to burst out ready to burst out with a Hugh <v McGlohon>Martin song Marlene I hope you are. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh, I'm always ready. <v McGlohon>You know, the tune uh from Make-A-Wish called What I Was Warned About. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: What I was warned about
<v McGlohon>Marleen, it was great to hear you sing a Hugh Martin song.
<v McGlohon>You know we said earlier you probably have one of the best known voices in the world. <v McGlohon>But uh most of the time uh you uh are heard doing <v McGlohon>radio and television n jingles and commercials,. <v Marlene Verplanck>Mostly commercials, right. <v McGlohon>Right <v Marlene Verplanck>Um it is fun to sing something longer than 60 seconds. <v Marlene Verplanck>It really is. <v Marlene Verplanck>Um these songs are right in the meat of everything I want to do. <v Marlene Verplanck>They are really great. <v McGlohon>From High Spirits there's a song. Uh And I have to confess I uh that many of these songs <v McGlohon>I didn't know of Hugh Martin's and it was great to get uh introduced to them, but <v McGlohon>this one is particularly charming. Alec, this tune from High Spirits, which <v McGlohon>is called If I Gave You. <v Alec Wilder>And I have to admit, I didn't know it. <v Alec Wilder>I went through all I thought of his songs and I don't know how I happened to miss this <v Alec Wilder>one. Maybe the copy wasn't available or something. <v Alec Wilder>I think it's a perfectly adorable song. <v Alec Wilder>It's like a madrigal. <v Marlene Verplanck>I saw the show and it was it's just absolutely one of my favorite shows <v Marlene Verplanck>because all the music was just so really, really wonderful. <v Marlene Verplanck>Uh This this this worked so well on the show and as everything else
<v Marlene Verplanck>did. And it was just one of my favorite all time shows. <v McGlohon>This has almost the folk like quality has. <v Alec Wilder>Even better than folk like it's almost. <v Alec Wilder>It's almost uh it's uh it's in the best sense of the word mannered because it's like a <v Alec Wilder>formal dance. It's like an um a-an18th century dance almost. <v Alec Wilder>It's it's uh out of uh its time. <v Alec Wilder>It's old. It's um uh- <v Marlene Verplanck>Well, in the show, you see, uh she comes back ?from? <v Marlene Verplanck>time. So that's that's eh tha-that's, you know, brought it all together. <v Marlene Verplanck>She she's like a spirit. Eh you know, that's what she is. <v Marlene Verplanck>She comes back as a spirit and and drives him crazy again. <v Alec Wilder>Oh, yes. And I should mention, I persuaded <v Alec Wilder>um Marlene to sing both sets of lyrics, even though the first one was for a boy and <v Alec Wilder>the second one was for a girl. <v McGlohon>I'm glad you did. <v Alec Wilder>Well, they're both so beautiful that uh I I used as an authority um Mabel <v Alec Wilder>Mercer, who always feels that doesn't matter. <v McGlohon>Well, I'm glad we're going to have a chance to hear both sets of lyrics. <v McGlohon>We would have had been cheated otherwise, Marlene.
<v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: If I Gave You <v McGlohon>There was a film uh in 1955 Alec uh that had a Hugh Martin
<v McGlohon>tune called An Occasional Man, and I think every musician likes very much <v McGlohon>whether or not ?inaudible? <v Alec Wilder>Was that in the show? I thought that was a separate song. Oh That was in a film. That's right. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah. He told me about that. I asked him about that because the title was so <v Alec Wilder>extraordinary. He told me he picked it up when he was down visiting home. <v Alec Wilder>He comes from Birmingham and uh and uh they had a lady came in to <v Alec Wilder>cook, I guess. And she didn't stay. <v Alec Wilder>You know, she just came in by the day. And to get back home, she had to walk through some <v Alec Wilder>woods. And uh he he said to her, one time, he said, aren't you scared <v Alec Wilder>walking through the woods? You know, you don't know what's going to happen. <v Alec Wilder>She said, no, no, no problem at all. These people, you know, you could be uh all kinds of <v Alec Wilder>crazy things can happen. People wandering around she said, no, no, I've no problem. <v Alec Wilder>We just see such an occasional man. <v All>[Laugh] <v Alec Wilder>And he said, I had to use it. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh that's the greatest. <v McGlohon>What a great title. <v Alec Wilder>It is! <v McGlohon>It's a very curious song. <v Alec Wilder>Yes, it is. And I'm- That section- <v Marlene Verplanck>And it's also fun to sing.
<v McGlohon>Yes, I bet it is <v Alec Wilder>There is a fourth or fifth measure in there that are unpredictable and they must <v Alec Wilder>be strange, I mean they're strange in that- <v McGlohon>Well this is the ?inaudible? it's like right here I think. <v Alec Wilder>That's- <v McGlohon>[piano riff] <v Alec Wilder>Yeah, that's it. <v McGlohon>I don't know if that occurs any other song. <v Alec Wilder>Never before in my life, never. Or anything like it. <v Billy Verplanck>Yes, the law is the harmonization of the harmonic sca- minor scale <v Billy Verplanck>just perfectly done. You know, you always- when you're learning the harmonic scale, you <v Billy Verplanck>go up and play the triads and you always- the third quarter's augmented. <v Billy Verplanck>And I don't think it's ever used anywhere it's very true. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: An Occasional Man <v McGlohon>You are for Loving, um is a tune.
<v McGlohon>I didn't know, Alec, at all. What does it come from? <v Alec Wilder>Well, it's um a it's a song Hugh wrote for the revival of Best Foot Forward. <v Alec Wilder>And I think it's one of most beautiful love songs I've ever heard in my life. <v Marlene Verplanck>Agreed. <v Alec Wilder>I couldn't believe it. And I didn't even know about it. <v Alec Wilder>'Cause I didn't go to the revival. <v Alec Wilder>I just happened to hear about the song and I just broke it literally broke my heart. <v Alec Wilder>I damn near wept just looking at the piano copy. <v Marlene Verplanck>It is a gorgeous-. <v McGlohon>Yeah a beautiful line. <v McGlohon>[piano riff] This soars don't it. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah. Here. <v Alec Wilder>That no. That no. <v Alec Wilder>That no tha-that that's <v Marlene Verplanck>That's a very soulful thing. It's just it's just-. <v Alec Wilder>That's to me credibly, readily used to be call inspiration here. <v Marlene Verplanck>It's an incredibly- Uh it is! A very soulful melody. <v McGlohon>Yeah it is. <v Billy Verplanck>Yeah. You know, it's uh it's just an aside. <v Billy Verplanck>But uh they were talking uh, Ralph Blane, when we saw him at the YMHA Lyrics and <v Billy Verplanck>lyricist, mentioned uh a uh thing about buckled down
<v Billy Verplanck>when ?socket? And how it happened. They were trying to find a title for the uh <v Billy Verplanck>for this college picture they were doing. And Harry Cohn said to me, he says well I got <v Billy Verplanck>to have something with Sock in it. <v Billy Verplanck>You know it does- whatever you-you none of this has got sock to it, he says. <v Billy Verplanck>So uh- <v Marlene Verplanck>I think they had Winton College. <v Billy Verplanck>Winton College. Yeah. It was like something like that something a very, very plain thing. <v Billy Verplanck>They said, well, why not buckle down ?when sarki? <v Billy Verplanck>Then said-. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah. <v Alec Wilder>I- It was almost unbelievable to me when I heard the title. <v Alec Wilder>I just couldn't figure it. <v McGlohon>No <v Alec Wilder>You know, some Polish college up in the mountains <v All>[laughter]. <v Alec Wilder>You know, it was a little odd, just a little odd story about that Best Foot Forward. <v Alec Wilder>Hugh once said to me, how could you write a song called Who Can I Turn To? <v Alec Wilder>Because it's ungrammatical. <v Alec Wilder>It should be Whom can I Turn- I said. And I said, well, whom doesn't mean anything. <v Alec Wilder>Who is the equivalent of why, where, how? <v Alec Wilder>And Mildred Bailey gave it to me, and I respect her. <v Alec Wilder>Whom, has no romantic um connotations.
<v Alec Wilder>Uh and I said and by the way, why didn't you call it Better Foot Forward. <v All>[laugh]. <v Alec Wilder> How many do you have. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: You are for Loving <v Alec Wilder>That was absolutely perfect. And I'm gonna have to ask Mr. Phipps.
<v Alec Wilder>Let me have just if nothing else. <v Alec Wilder>I'm going to keep something for once in my life. <v Alec Wilder>I don't keep anything but that I want to keep that piece of tape because that's the song <v Alec Wilder>that's it '. <v McGlohon>That was very nice Marlene. <v Marlene Verplanck>Thank you, and fun to do. <v McGlohon>Uh there's a tune uh called Ev'ry Time, that I think maybe a little more familiar to the <v McGlohon>public. <v Marlene Verplanck>It's also from the same show. <v McGlohon>Yes. <v Alec Wilder>The original production? <v McGlohon>The original, right. <v Marlene Verplanck>But it's a wonderful song. <v Alec Wilder>Sure is. <v McGlohon>Curiously, though, it has a lot of uh repetition um. <v Alec Wilder>You mean repeated notes? <v McGlohon>Yes. <v Alec Wilder>Which I made a speech about in that book, which I take back in terms of the song because <v Alec Wilder>the repeated notes worked. In this case, they're not aggressive repeated notes. <v McGlohon>[piano riff] <v Alec Wilder>Absolutely, marvelous. I don't know why I. <v Alec Wilder>I think this is a terribly tender and and and dear and un- <v Alec Wilder>there's no up- um uh I said I wasn't gonna mention the name, but I <v Alec Wilder>don't think that even Ms. Streisand could make a um <v Alec Wilder>wagner aria out of this one.
<v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: Ev'ry Time
<v McGlohon>Judy Garland was fortunate enough to get um some Hugh Martin <v McGlohon>songs in a film and the- <v Alec Wilder>Sure, Lloyd Lucky. <v Billy Verplanck>Well, he was lucky too, because the way she did it <v Marlene Verplanck>Ugh no one no one sings the Trolley Song The Boy Next Door. <v Marlene Verplanck>No one could sing those things like she did. <v Marlene Verplanck>I don't think anyone should dare to. <v McGlohon>And and there's a tune called Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas- <v Marlene Verplanck>A Merry Little Christmas Here. Oh, it's a wonderful song. <v McGlohon>Which uh was done so poignantly. <v McGlohon>In- in the film. The film clips that uh still are available of <v McGlohon>Judy singing that song is a marvelous Christmas song. <v McGlohon>Mm hmm. <v Marlene Verplanck>It's one of the few Christmas songs other than White Christmas or Rudolph the Red <v Marlene Verplanck>Nosed Reindeer or something that has really sustained through the years. <v McGlohon>It has a very, oh, sad quality about it. <v Alec Wilder>That's Right. It's almost as if you were afraid they weren't going to have one.
<v Marlene Verplanck>Right. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas. <v McGlohon>The boy next door, which comes from the same film, is probably Hugh Martin's best known
<v McGlohon>song, of all. Isn't it? <v Alec Wilder>I think so, I think so. <v Marlene Verplanck>Probably one of the best songs too yeah. <v Alec Wilder>Oh, yeah, sure. <v McGlohon>And it's got uh a device that he must have liked very much. <v McGlohon>Called a flatted fifth. <v Marlene Verplanck>Yeah, he sure love that flatted fifth interval. <v McGlohon>This was the first few bars sound liked. <v McGlohon>[piano riff] <v Alec Wilder>Well, it's like a suspension. <v Alec Wilder>It is a suspension. And, you know, it's going to lead someplace, but you're, you know, <v Alec Wilder>not quite sure it is it's gonna make it and it does. <v Alec Wilder>And that's total fulfillment when it gets to the from the C-sharp to the deep B to <v Alec Wilder>the C. <v McGlohon>Well, it's a it's just a beautiful, beautiful song-. <v Alec Wilder>Including the verse. <v Marlene Verplanck>And the verse of this- yeah the verse has got to be one of the greatest verses of all <v Marlene Verplanck>time it's-. <v Alec Wilder>That's right. <v McGlohon>And particularly singing alone ?undressed? too. <v Marlene Verplanck>Right, right right <v All>?unintelligible? <v Speaker>?Unintelligible? heartbreaking. Abs- She'd make- I admit it's heartbreaking. <v Marlene Verplanck>It is because all you can do is picture Judy Garland.
<v Marlene Verplanck>And she was like the real young Angelou at this time in that <v Marlene Verplanck>movie, remembering her performance of that thing. <v Marlene Verplanck>Is - it takes. It just has to grab you. <v Marlene Verplanck>It has to. I know it grabs me because I I find it hard just to collect <v Marlene Verplanck>myself to get into the song at the moment. <v Billy Verplanck>Yeah, not only that, like I mean, y-you think of uh how Tin Pan Alley people wrote <v Billy Verplanck>songs to come out with an interval so bare like that. <v Billy Verplanck>And so really dissonant. <v Billy Verplanck>And when it resolves itself it's such a marvelous glow. <v Billy Verplanck>And the courage that uh or I don't think he was even aware of it. <v Billy Verplanck>It just had to be. And it just couldn't be anything else. <v Billy Verplanck>And I thank God that he did. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: The Boy Next Door <v McGlohon>I wish everybody could have been here to see you do that Marlene because it was for uh
<v McGlohon>all of us in this room, a very emotional experience. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh, thank you. <v Marlene Verplanck>It was- it is an emotional song. <v McGlohon>Well, Billy and I both have had the pleasure of <v McGlohon>working with Miss Garland, and you cannot have ever seen this woman <v McGlohon>and not have been touched. <v Marlene Verplanck>I agree. I agree. She's super, super star. <v McGlohon>As opposed. You know, I think she had a communication um <v McGlohon>that was partly visual, which might get us into <v McGlohon>an area of this next song I know was performed by Lena Horne. <v McGlohon>So Hugh Martin's song from Ziegfeld Follies. <v McGlohon>And Lena Horne is a very visual performer, I think. <v Billy Verplanck>Yeah. I I would agree. I. I played her show for uh six weeks at the uh <v Billy Verplanck>Waldorf. And it was I think was one of the last times of just before Lenny Haden <v Billy Verplanck>died. But I never really cared for her singing too much
<v Billy Verplanck>until I saw her perform. And she when she performed, she doesn't <v Billy Verplanck>perform in the usual sense. <v Billy Verplanck>She stalks would be more like it. <v Billy Verplanck>I mean, when she walk around the uh. <v Alec Wilder>Oh my God the high authority. <v Billy Verplanck>Yeah. <v McGlohon>And a lot of animal. <v Marlene Verplanck>Yeah. <v Billy Verplanck>Yeah. <v Billy Verplanck>Well, I remember there was one one case uh there's a song called Get Rid of Mundie <v Billy Verplanck>and she has a very explosive delivery on it. <v Billy Verplanck>And there was this Midwestern man. <v Billy Verplanck>And it was during the uh you know, the uh the dinner hour we-we're playing, you know, <v Billy Verplanck>usually people are eating and they don't care what's going on. <v Billy Verplanck>And this little man had a bow tie. <v Billy Verplanck>And I remember he was eating his soup and he did. <v Billy Verplanck>He went and he was put on the dance floor. <v Billy Verplanck>And Lena, you know, out of her, I. And everybody in the band knew that some awful is <v Billy Verplanck>gonna happen to this poor little guy. And he sensed it and he didn't know what was going <v Billy Verplanck>to happen. And she's going through the opening number and she's like looking at <v Billy Verplanck>the side of her eye. And we know that something terrible is gonna have we didn't know <v Billy Verplanck>what I was the third tune was get rid of Mundie.
<v Billy Verplanck>And uh she's stalking across the stage, doing a thing, moving <v Billy Verplanck>terrible. And she gets up to this guy and she says, get rid of Mondie. <v Billy Verplanck>And the soup and everything went all over the man and he just sat there frozen through <v Billy Verplanck>the rest of the show. I never got over that. <v Billy Verplanck>And she and she wasn't disturbed. <v Billy Verplanck>She just walked away. And as if nothing ever happened. <v Billy Verplanck>I she doesn't ?unintelligible? . <v Marlene Verplanck>You remember that performance of Love? <v Marlene Verplanck>You know, this humo- from what she did in the movie. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh my- It was a a moving experience. <v McGlohon>Yes. It's a strange song. This uh it's a production. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh it's a wonderful song <v Speaker>It's a production number. It's not really a a popular song. <v Alec Wilder>Oh, no, no. Right. Right. It. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: Love <v McGlohon>That was a workout for all of us.
<v Alec Wilder>No, well, with all deference to him, Ms. Harn, this thing was really strong. <v Alec Wilder>And you yourself. You know, and and Jim, like all of you, played like madmen <v Alec Wilder>. <v McGlohon>Thank you Terry for good bass notes. <v Alec Wilder>No, just marvelous performance. <v Alec Wilder>Really a unique performance. <v Alec Wilder>Every one of you. <v Marlene Verplanck>Thank you. <v McGlohon>Well, it was a guess of a song to do. <v Marlene Verplanck>It sure was. <v Marlene Verplanck>We're, getting into the back into this section of his Broadway show called High Spirits. <v Marlene Verplanck>And that, of course, was based on the Noel Coward show, Glide Spirit. <v Marlene Verplanck>And in the show, it was the most fun part of the show, I think, where she comes down <v Marlene Verplanck>and haunts her husband from heaven. <v Marlene Verplanck>And he's now married to another lady. <v Marlene Verplanck>And uh she sings this song called You Better Love Me, which is you <v Marlene Verplanck>know one of my really favorite songs of Hugh Martin's. <v Marlene Verplanck>And I'd like to do-. <v McGlohon>The set up verse, which uh ?unintelligible?. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh, yeah, like she comes- well ?unintelligible? well well it tells a story <v Marlene Verplanck>It does tell the story and uh it's just uh uh you know <v Marlene Verplanck>self-evident there.
<v Alec Wilder>By the way, uh Noel Coward directed this show. <v Alec Wilder>High spirits because they worked with him on the musical version of it to get his advice <v Alec Wilder>as to where to cut lines and where to change scenes and everything else. <v Alec Wilder>And he got so involved with it that he came over here and directed it. <v Alec Wilder>I think you'll see it on the even on the on the piano copy. <v Alec Wilder>It says directed by Noel Coward. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: You Better Love Me <v McGlohon>I enjoyed playing a chart on that Marlene.
<v Marlene Verplanck>Oh Thank you. That's um- <v McGlohon>I know you do that in your club right. <v Marlene Verplanck>Yeah, we do. <v McGlohon>And working on this show, I was um flabbergasted, to <v McGlohon>run across the tune I'd never heard of called Tiny Room. <v Alec Wilder>Oh, yeah that's glorious <v McGlohon>And which seems to have the same device that the boy next door has. <v Alec Wilder>That's right. <v Marlene Verplanck>But it's turned it around a little bit. Yeah. <v McGlohon>Right it's reverse. <v Alec Wilder>Well, that's completely vanished. <v Alec Wilder>That song, simply because they took it out of Look Ma I'm Dancing and it's had no life at <v Alec Wilder>all. I don't you know. It obviously has been recorded at one time or another, but um <v Alec Wilder>it's not pa- part of the standard catalog at all. <v Alec Wilder>You ask most musicians, they never heard of it? <v McGlohon>No. <v Alec Wilder>Even a guy like Jimmy Rolls who knows every song in the world has never heard of it. <v McGlohon>I think uh Billy, when he looked at the leaves, he was making comments about how- <v Alec Wilder>Did you ever did you ever hear of it. <v Billy Verplanck>No, not so-. No until it's-. <v Alec Wilder>I think it's a very, very special song. And I don't know why it was taken out. <v Alec Wilder>I think it's a tragedy because I suppose it's, you know, the time element and <v Alec Wilder>sometimes in shows they just run over and they grab a song and take it out or didn't fit <v Alec Wilder>a situation. I mean, that's tragic to me because it vanishes. <v McGlohon>Yes. But, you know, it might be interesting again to to illustrate that flatted
<v McGlohon>fifth device instead of uh um uh [plays piano] uh, It <v McGlohon>goes like this. [plays piano]. In this case <v McGlohon>at third bar would have been the fifth would have been [piano] that's much more <v McGlohon>interesting to have done it [piano]. <v Marlene Verplanck>I think might might be fun just to show the boy next door now as in. <v Marlene Verplanck>Contrast to that. <v McGlohon>Yeah okay um [piano] Instead <v McGlohon>of the fifth would have been. <v McGlohon>[piano]. <v Alec Wilder>Nothing. <v McGlohon>Right. <v Marlene Verplanck>Right. <v McGlohon>Well, let's do some flatted fifth and (unintelligible) <v Marlene Verplanck>(Laugh) Okay. <v Alec Wilder>And a lot more too <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: Tiny Room <v Alec Wilder>Yeah. Thank you very much, Marlene. I think it's- you did it again.
<v Alec Wilder>That's another piece of tape I want in my suitcase. <v Billy Verplanck>Isn't that the truth? <v Alec Wilder>It's an adorable song. <v Marlene Verplanck>Yeah, it's it's really pretty. <v Marlene Verplanck>When I first looked at the lyric, uh I I was just reading <v Marlene Verplanck>it down and it said in a cubicle six by eight. <v Marlene Verplanck>And I said, oh I haven't seen the show, but they couldn't have been in jail could they? <v Marlene Verplanck>I mean, I just didn't know what to think in my first reading. <v Marlene Verplanck>And then, of course. <v Alec Wilder>You've never been poor. <v Marlene Verplanck>I had checked it out and then I asked a friend of mine who is quite knowledgeable on <v Marlene Verplanck>shows. And I said, What? What do you know the sequence of this uh song in the show? <v Marlene Verplanck>And uh I think he said the same thing, that it was taken out of the show. <v Marlene Verplanck>But but no. That sure enough, they weren't in jail. <v Marlene Verplanck>They were just in a little room. <v McGlohon>No. this too pretty for (unintelligible) <v Marlene Verplanck>Getting to know each other. <v Alec Wilder>Yeah the room was too pretty no curtains in jail. <v McGlohon>As opposed to that kind of a song. <v McGlohon>There's another song. I Know Your Heart Again from High Spirits, I <v McGlohon>guess, which is is completely different from uh Tiny Room, or Boy <v McGlohon>Next Door.
<v Alec Wilder>All right (unintelligible) <v McGlohon>It sounds like uh I Know Your Heart sounds like it should have been written for the Count <v McGlohon>Basie Band <v Marlene Verplanck>But yeah, it's it's got a wonderful lilt to it. <v McGlohon>Yeah, it's like uh-. <v Billy Verplanck>Hey, listen, don't forget, there's another very interesting thing, that final cadence in <v Billy Verplanck>the uh in the second uh 16 bars, he goes <v Billy Verplanck>to the flatted fifth again, only downward. <v McGlohon>Oh does he. <v Billy Verplanck>Yeah, (singing) I know your heart by <v Billy Verplanck>heart. <v McGlohon>Oh yeah. <v Marlene Verplanck>Oh yeah yeah <v Billy Verplanck>Yes. I've never heard that done once. <v Marlene Verplanck>[singing softly] I know your heart by heart <v Alec Wilder>It's definitely Martin. I don't- I think I know. <v Alec Wilder>And I can't think of a title on the song but I've seen it only one other place in my <v Alec Wilder>life. Maybe Vernon Duke. I can't remember. <v Alec Wilder>But it's ab- almost unprecedented. <v McGlohon>Well th-the the it's uh marked. Uh,the song is constructed so much like C ount Basie <v McGlohon>things that starting after the downbeat be like one. <v McGlohon>[piano] <v Alec Wilder>It's definitely the basics. Yeah, that's right. <v McGlohon>[Singing] buh do buh do bah doo. <v Marlene Verplanck>And it's a fun song to sing because it is so rhythmical, you know, it's a subtle rhythm,
<v Marlene Verplanck>but it's there. <v Alec Wilder>It just builds and builds. It's just it's just a fun song. <v Alec Wilder>I mean, what a wonderful sense of life. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: I Know Your Heart
<v Marlene Verplanck>Well, I think that kind of rounds out this program of all these Hugh Martin songs, I <v Marlene Verplanck>mean, I know we. <v McGlohon>That's all you brought you mean- that's all you brought along with you. <v McGlohon> <v Marlene Verplanck>Right. I know we've only touched upon this music, but I was looking at some <v Marlene Verplanck>other songbooks in my search for all this music. <v Marlene Verplanck>And I came across a really obscure song written by <v Marlene Verplanck>an obscure songwriter. <v Marlene Verplanck>And uh it's a very unusual and haunting melody. <v Marlene Verplanck>And with your permission, I'd like to close the show with The Winter of my Discontent. <v Alec Wilder>Oh ho. <v McGlohon>Alright I'll be written by, oh, I happen- we happen to know the man. <v Marlene Verplanck>Just happen to know who wrote that right? <v Alec Wilder>Oh that's very interesting you should you go do that song, it's a strange <v Alec Wilder>one. You're right, because I got the lyric from a fellow that if you'd ever met <v Alec Wilder>him, you wouldn't believe it. He's a most unlikely man to have written this this lyric.
<v Alec Wilder>And I don't know quite why I said it, because it was strange words like resonance <v Alec Wilder>and dissonance and odd words that uh- But it's an angry song <v Marlene Verplanck>But it's a haunting melody. <v Marlene Verplanck>It's a very haunting thing. <v Marlene Verplanck>Um, you know, you hear it once and all of a sudden this thing just keeps going around in <v Marlene Verplanck>your brain. I know it was going around in mine. <v Alec Wilder>Really? <v Marlene Verplanck>Yes, it was. And it was kind of in my sleep. <v Marlene Verplanck>I was still, you know, running over that melody in my head. <v Marlene Verplanck>And I said, I'd like to really, you know, work on this. <v McGlohon>It was a lovely song. <v Alec Wilder>Well now now listen I apologize ahead of time for the baseline. <v McGlohon>I will try to play the baseline correctly. <v Marlene Verplanck>And it must be done right. <v Alec Wilder>And I mean- I mean it has a life of its own <v McGlohon>I'm very nervous, but I will try. <v Marlene Verplanck>Singing: The Winter of My Discontent
<v McGlohon>Marlene Verplanck, Billy Verplanck, it was great to have you help
<v McGlohon>us uh work on the Hugh Martin Show <v Billy Verplanck>Oh, gee it was- <v Marlene Verplanck>This is the most enjoyable hour I have spent in. <v Marlene Verplanck>I can't remember when. <v McGlohon>Since last week? <v Marlene Verplanck>No. And I I just want to thank you for having us. <v Marlene Verplanck>And Alec it's been a wonderful, wonderful experience. <v Alec Wilder>Well, thank you for singing that song. <v Billy Verplanck>So thank you very much. Band uh the time and swing was just so <v Billy Verplanck>beautiful it's the world we want to live in. <v Announcer>Your guide for these weekly sessions of American popular song is the distinguished <v Announcer>composer and songwriter Alec Wilder, joining him today, where singer Marlene <v Announcer>Verplanck and songwriter Loonis McGlohon, an American popular song, is <v Announcer>a production of the South Carolina Educational Radio Network and is made possible by <v Announcer>a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts, directed by Dick Phipps,
<v Announcer>executive producer William D. <v Announcer>Hey. <v Announcer>Additional funds for distribution of this program provided by the Corporation for Public <v Announcer>Broadcasting. This is NPR National Public Radio.
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Series
American Popular Songs with Alec Wilder & Friends
Episode
Marlene VerPlanck sings Hugh Martin
Producing Organization
National Public Radio (U.S.)
South Carolina Educational Radio
Contributing Organization
The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia (Athens, Georgia)
AAPB ID
cpb-aacip-526-jm23b5xg25
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Description
Episode Description
In this episode of the program host Alec Wilder and musician Loonis McGlohon, along with guests Marlene and Billy Verplanck analyze Hugh Martin songs. Performances by Marlene Verplanck, Loonis McGlohon, and band.
Series Description
"AMERICAN POPULAR SONG WITH ALEC WILDER & FRIENDS is a series of 26 one-hour radio programs that features composer Alec Wilder in a role for which he is uniquely suited: that of spokesman for and critic of American popular song. His book 'American Popular Song: The Great Innovators' (Oxford Univ. Press) is highly acclaimed by scholars and musicians alike. It is a pioneering work which gives scholarly recognition to the literary and musical achievement of American popular music and to its importance as part of our popular culture. "These weekly programs bring this fascinating study to National Public Radio, making Wilder's expertise and candor accessible to a nationwide audience. "The series premiered in October, 1976, and has already received critical acclaim. Rex Reed called it 'the best thing to happen to both popular music and radio in years. John O'Connor in the New York Times describes it as 'unique and invaluable.' "Whitney Balliett in The New Yorker refers to it as 'an archive of American song that will be played and replayed up and down the country.' (See enclosed press response) . "The programs analyze American Popular Song as a uniquely American art form, offering entertaining and informative critiques of outstanding examples of the genre, its composers, lyricists and interpreters. Joining Mr. Wilder for these informal discussions and performances are guest artists and composers. "Subjects include [analyses] of individual songs, comparisons of theatre and film songs with Tin Pan Alley tunes, the techniques of lyric writing, as well as profiles of individual composers and lyricists showing their development and how their work reflects the changing American scene. "The series is truly a pioneering effort in recognizing a native American art from that perhaps more than any other offers a unique perspective on our nation and its people during the first half of the twentieth century."--1976 Peabody Awards entry form.
Broadcast Date
1976-10-24
Created Date
1976-10-24
Asset type
Episode
Media type
Sound
Duration
00:59:00.120
Credits
Host: Wilder, Alec
Performer: VerPlanck, Marlene
Performer: Verplanck, Billy
Performer: McGlohon, Loonis
Producing Organization: National Public Radio (U.S.)
Producing Organization: South Carolina Educational Radio
AAPB Contributor Holdings
The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia
Identifier: cpb-aacip-d3cb393a0a6 (Filename)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:59:00
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Citations
Chicago: “American Popular Songs with Alec Wilder & Friends; Marlene VerPlanck sings Hugh Martin,” 1976-10-24, The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed March 28, 2024, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-526-jm23b5xg25.
MLA: “American Popular Songs with Alec Wilder & Friends; Marlene VerPlanck sings Hugh Martin.” 1976-10-24. The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. March 28, 2024. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-526-jm23b5xg25>.
APA: American Popular Songs with Alec Wilder & Friends; Marlene VerPlanck sings Hugh Martin. Boston, MA: The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-526-jm23b5xg25