Chicago Tonight With John Callaway; No. 1053; Firing of Ruth Love / Taxicab Deregulation

<v Announcer>[music] An upset at the Chicago School Board. <v Announcer>Ruth Love is out and a fight in the city council over the taxi cab industry, <v Announcer>will de-regulation come to Chicago? <v Announcer>And what will it mean on the streets? Those stories on Chicago tonight with John <v Announcer>Callaway. <v Announcer>This evening on Chicago tonight, Alderman Patrick O'Connor and Linda wirch of the <v Announcer>Sun-Times discussed the ouster of school superintendent Ruth Love with host John <v Announcer>Callaway. <v John Callaway>Good evening and welcome to a very busy edition of Chicago tonight. <v John Callaway>A little later in this broadcast, we will bring you that debate on whether or not <v John Callaway>Chicago's taxicab industry should be deregulated. <v John Callaway>And at 11 o'clock at the end of this broadcast, we'll bring you another broadcast for <v John Callaway>those of you who may have missed it, of President Reagan's news conference, which was <v John Callaway>held earlier this evening in Washington.

<v John Callaway>But first, the Ruth Love story. As you know, the Chicago Board of Educatio-Education <v John Callaway>voted 65 late last night not to renew Dr. Love's contract as <v John Callaway>superintendent of Chicago's public schools. <v John Callaway>Was Dr. Love a victim of a political conspiracy? <v John Callaway>She thinks so. And we will now hear from our guests, Linda Wertsch, who is the <v John Callaway>education writer for The Chicago Sun-Times. <v John Callaway>Alderman Patrick O'Connor of the 40th Ward, who was the chairman of the City Council's <v John Callaway>Education Committee, and 20th Ward Alderman Clifford Kelly, who is a member of the <v John Callaway>Education Committee who just got here in the studio. <v John Callaway>I hope you can get your microphone on while I talk with Linda Wertsch, for just a- for <v John Callaway>just a second. You talked with Dr. Ruth Love today. <v John Callaway>What did she have to say about this? <v Linda Wertsch>She said that she was um essentially ousted <v Linda Wertsch>through a combination of a school board president whom she accuses of being politically <v Linda Wertsch>ambitious and wanting to be a spokesman of the Hispanic community and wanted to run for <v Linda Wertsch>office, which he denies, by the way, he says he does not want to run for office. <v John Callaway>He, by the way, will be our guest for a full program tomorrow night. <v John Callaway>George Munez.

<v Linda Wertsch>Right and uh a mayor who uh did not want her <v Linda Wertsch>contract renewed uh because she was um <v Linda Wertsch>uncontrollable. <v John Callaway>In what, in what respect do you think Dr. Love was uncontrollable in the <v John Callaway>eyes of Mayor Washington? <v John Callaway>Was she too outfront in Springfield or what? <v Linda Wertsch>I've repeatedly asked that question, and I don't get any definitive <v Linda Wertsch>answers. And I've talked to some reporters who are a little bit more up to date on city <v Linda Wertsch>hall than I. And it is just that uh she was visible. <v Linda Wertsch>She would uh go her own way, perhaps, that she stuck to her guns and didn't endorse <v Linda Wertsch>anyone in the mayoral context. <v John Callaway>Have you heard anything about any alderman or any people like that who may have been out <v John Callaway>for her? <v Linda Wertsch>Well, I-I [laughs] hate to do this to answer until you just walked in. <v Linda Wertsch>I had planned to talk to him before the program began. <v John Callaway>Talk to him now, live. <v Linda Wertsch>Shall we discuss this? <v Clifford Kelley>Absolutely. <v John Callaway>Please, what di-what did you hear? <v Linda Wertsch>Okay, I'll tell you what Dr. Love told me. <v Linda Wertsch>She said that Mayor Washington had told her that he supported her <v Linda Wertsch>and she believed that. She said, Jorge Munoz had told her he supported her and she

<v Linda Wertsch>believed that. But she said on July 4th, an alderman came up to her, and she would not <v Linda Wertsch>name this alderman, and the alderman said, I was asked by Mayor Washington's <v Linda Wertsch>staff to lead an attack against you and I told them no, and I was told, well, if Clifford <v Linda Wertsch>Kelley will do it instead. Subsequently, Rich Desculka, <v Linda Wertsch>who is a public relations aide to Dr. Love, also told me all this, you know, <v Linda Wertsch>was on the record that he had talked to you in the Oakland airport on Friday after the <v Linda Wertsch>Democratic convention. <v Linda Wertsch>Um, well both were attending a new supposedly had said that we're <v Linda Wertsch>going to send Ruth Love uh back to Oakland, but Oakland possibly <v Linda Wertsch>won't want her. You said there'd be some, supposedly said, that <v Linda Wertsch>uh there would be some big stories that would blow the lid off. <v Linda Wertsch>So that's what Dr. Love says. <v John Callaway>Alderman Kelley. <v Clifford Kelley>Not true at all. I-It's very unfortunate. <v Clifford Kelley>I was asked by the media last night why I was at the meeting <v Clifford Kelley>and I.

<v John Callaway>At the board of Education meeting. <v Clifford Kelley>Right. <v John Callaway>Where Dr. Love's contract was not renewed. <v Clifford Kelley>I explained that I have been at the last three meetings where a superintendent <v Clifford Kelley>was in fact selected, and I'm a member of the Education Committee of the Chicago <v Clifford Kelley>City Council and I have an interest, and that was the only reason I was there. <v John Callaway>Did you know how that vote was coming out? <v Clifford Kelley>No, I did not. <v John Callaway>What about the- what about your comments at the Oakland airp-aport? <v Clifford Kelley>I don't know what uh Mr. Desculka is is working for Ruth Love now. <v Clifford Kelley>Is- Idon't know where these coming from now. <v John Callaway>But did you say at the Oakland Aiport. <v Clifford Kelley>No, I did not. <v John Callaway>That you would send. <v Clifford Kelley>No. <v John Callaway>That she would be sent back to Oakland. <v Clifford Kelley>Absolutely not. <v John Callaway>Did you say anything that could be construed that way? Were you joking? <v John Callaway>You're a- you're. <v Clifford Kelley>Oh, sure I-I joke. <v John Callaway>Hail and well met fellow, Alderman Kelley. <v Clifford Kelley>Yes, absolutely and I appreciate that. But I just, I didn't say anything that I think <v Clifford Kelley>could remotely be implied to suggest that I had anything to do. <v Clifford Kelley>I have no control over the board. <v Clifford Kelley>The mayor has never asked me to do anything relative to that. <v Clifford Kelley>And he's kept a hands off attitude. <v John Callaway>I want to go to our other guest, but are you glad, Ruth Love is out? <v Clifford Kelley>I just hope that if this brings unity to the board, it will be to the benefit <v Clifford Kelley>of the children. <v John Callaway>But I mean do you think she was a good superintendent?

<v Clifford Kelley>I must say that uh I am not really in a position to determine that. <v Clifford Kelley>Evidently, the people who are felt that she was not, but I certainly am not. <v John Callaway>You have no- what you're saying is you have no axe to grind with her? <v Clifford Kelley>Absolutely not. No. If-if the board would think that she would should remain <v Clifford Kelley>there and would be a good superintendent and improve the quality of education in the <v Clifford Kelley>public school system, which is the bottom line, obviously, they would have kept her. <v John Callaway>Alderman O'Connor, are you buying that? <v Patrick O'Connor>I uh, believe that the school board has the right to do what they did, <v Patrick O'Connor>but in turning around in the same meeting and almost in the same breath and saying, <v Patrick O'Connor>well, let's now begin negotiations with another individual to be the new superintendent, <v Patrick O'Connor>uh, there's a lot more going on there than just trying to <v Patrick O'Connor>determine whether or not Ruth Love was was an adequate superintendent. <v Patrick O'Connor>Um. <v John Callaway>Do you think the deck was stacked by the time? <v Patrick O'Connor>Oh, I don't think there's any question. <v Patrick O'Connor>It was no coincidence that Manford Byrd was at the meeting last night. <v Patrick O'Connor>It was no coincidence that uh when certain board members walked in, they were told this <v Patrick O'Connor>is what's going to happen tonight. And uh we have the votes and there's nothing can be

<v Patrick O'Connor>done about it. Those things don't uh speak well for the board. <v Patrick O'Connor>The board has the right to do what they did in not renewing her contract. <v Patrick O'Connor>And in fact, has the right to ask Manfred Byrd to be the superintendent of schools. <v John Callaway>Do you believe Mayor Washington, when he says and he said it on the evening news tonight, <v John Callaway>he said, I don't interfere with the board. <v John Callaway>They have the right to do what they do and they do it. <v John Callaway>Do you believe that? <v Patrick O'Connor>I believe that maybe he doesn't do it directly and personally, but I do believe that <v Patrick O'Connor>there are people that that work for him and are under him that do involve themselves in <v Patrick O'Connor>the board, whether it's with his current direct consent or not. <v Patrick O'Connor>There's no question. <v John Callaway>And that's always been the case with mayors, hasn't it? <v John Callaway>In other words, they say it's a different governmental jurisdiction, but when things go <v John Callaway>wrong, they get the blame for it. <v John Callaway>Well, they share the blame for it. <v Patrick O'Connor>Well, I think that this is different in one sense. <v Patrick O'Connor>If this had happened under any other mayor, there's no question that everyone-body he <v Patrick O'Connor>would have said that was the fifth floor that dictated this. <v Patrick O'Connor>And they would've never question whether or not they were involved. <v Patrick O'Connor>With this mayor there is a question as to whether or not he was involved. <v Patrick O'Connor>So that's a little bit different.

<v John Callaway>Linda Wertsch, could it be argued that Ruth Love's problem wasn't that she was too <v John Callaway>political, that she wasn't political, she wouldn't campaign for Jane Byrne. <v John Callaway>She wouldn't ever picture taken with Jane Byrne in the schools. <v John Callaway>She apparently had her own course of action in Springfield. <v John Callaway>She wouldn't play ball with Mayor Washington. <v John Callaway>She wouldn't agree to the two year contract, which apparently Bill Weir suggested that <v John Callaway>she take. Is that her problem, that she's her own woman? <v Linda Wertsch>She would say that, you know, she is not political in that way, uh but <v Linda Wertsch>she is her own woman and does will indeed plow <v Linda Wertsch>ahead without always bringing people in the fold and uh soothing their feathers. <v John Callaway>Is she too strong Alderman Kelley? <v Clifford Kelley>Well, that seems to be the complaint. <v Clifford Kelley>One of the complaints of some of the board members, amongst others, but I'd just like to <v Clifford Kelley>say something relative to Pat's statement. <v Clifford Kelley>When they went in and moved to to negotiate with Manfred Byrd, <v Clifford Kelley>you are credited with saying in the paper that it would- she should be reappointed <v Clifford Kelley>because we couldn't take the time for a search. <v Clifford Kelley>I think they feel the same way. We could not go into negotiations with the school, with <v Clifford Kelley>the school board, unions and all.

<v Clifford Kelley>And immediately they wanted to select someone who they knew was understanding <v Clifford Kelley>and knowledgeable of the system. And of course, Manfred Byrd is. <v Clifford Kelley>He's been passed over twice. <v John Callaway>He's been a part of two nationwide searches. <v Clifford Kelley>Yes. <v John Callaway>He came out number two both times. <v Clifford Kelley>At both times, that's correct. I think the hands off attitude of the mayor certainly <v Clifford Kelley>epitomized by his refusal, not notwithstanding the demands by many people to become <v Clifford Kelley>involved in trying to resolve the strike last year. <v Clifford Kelley>He said that he did not want to get involved in it and in fact didn't. <v John Callaway>But what about the people like Mr. Weir? Do think he has hands off? <v Clifford Kelley>The ironic thing about it is I think Mr. Weir was trying to help Superintendent <v Clifford Kelley>Love. She did not have six votes. <v Clifford Kelley>Whatever would happen. She would not have six votes. <v John Callaway>So he's saying take your take a little pay cut and we can get you. <v Clifford Kelley>A-a-a compromise and she she wants to play, she wants to have it both ways. <v Clifford Kelley>Why did the mayor tell her, in fact, that he supported it if she hadn't solicited that <v Clifford Kelley>support? <v John Callaway>And also, there were allies, all allies of the mayor uh who supported <v John Callaway>the superintendent. <v Clifford Kelley>Absolutely. The allies of the mayor, the people that he could influence did vote for her <v Clifford Kelley>and many people.

<v John Callaway>Carol Moseley Braun as an example. <v Clifford Kelley>Well, I'm talking about people, people on the board for instance. <v John Callaway>I know, but what I'm saying others. <v Clifford Kelley>Were supportive of some of the people on the board that were against Love <v Clifford Kelley>certainly are not influenced by Mayor Washington and in fact, maybe influenced by other <v Clifford Kelley>members. Now, we have two members of the education committee, at least before the <v Clifford Kelley>education committee, for confirmation that Mayor Washington has tried to get on the <v Clifford Kelley>board, and they have not been confirmed as of yet. <v Clifford Kelley>I don't know, the uh the alderman, who is the chairman of the committee can certainly <v Clifford Kelley>tell us that. <v John Callaway>Alderman. <v Patrick O'Connor>I'd like to respond to a couple of things. First of all, uh I don't believe that I said <v Patrick O'Connor>that it's that we didn't have time to do the search. <v Patrick O'Connor>We have a time to make a search. We have until March 'til Ruth Love's contract is up. <v Patrick O'Connor>And I think that when a man from Manfred Byrd comes in in under the <v Patrick O'Connor>suspicion of a deal having been cut, rather than coming in on the merit, that he is the <v Patrick O'Connor>best after a search, I think that that's a shame for the school system and for him, <v Patrick O'Connor>because he's not going to be able to say he's there 'cause he merits it, he's gonna be <v Patrick O'Connor>able to say because there was a deal. I think that you have to look at the situation when <v Patrick O'Connor>a board member's appointed they are scrutinized, they go through an application process,

<v Patrick O'Connor>they are interviewed, they are weeded out, and then you come up with what they feel is <v Patrick O'Connor>the best candidate. The superintendency is no less important and deserves no less <v Patrick O'Connor>scrutiny and no less and that's less of a tack. <v John Callaway>Our viewers are calling in. Good evening. You're on the air. <v Caller 1>Yes. I would just like to say, as a teacher in the public school <v Caller 1>system, that Ruth Love really did not do much to help <v Caller 1>improve the quality of education in the classroom. <v John Callaway>What, can you-can you be more specific? <v Caller 1>Well, the Chicago Mastery Learning System was intended <v Caller 1>to be a supplemental program, not as th answer <v Caller 1>to the greeting deficiencies of the children, and all of <v Caller 1>the sudden the math relearning programs the teachers had to teach and <v Caller 1>the kids had to master, and forget about everything else. <v John Callaway>All right. Now let's go around the panel and get your opinion. <v John Callaway>Let's get a report card on Dr. Love. Linda Werstch, what kind of grades would you give

<v John Callaway>her? Forget about politics now. What kind of grades would you give her on substance in <v John Callaway>her three years here? <v Linda Wertsch>For having been here for three <v Linda Wertsch>years? I've seen her uh initiate enough <v Linda Wertsch>things that are in line with what education experts are meding-recommending around <v Linda Wertsch>the country. To probably say, you know, around a B <v Linda Wertsch>or so, but he,r indeed her dealings with the board and getting people to work <v Linda Wertsch>with her, you know, put a minus on that B. <v Speaker>Quickly, uh Alderman Kelley, what would you give her? <v Clifford Kelley>Again, I'm not sure. I have not been privy to the things the board members have been. <v Clifford Kelley>They do suggest, though, that a lot of programs are initiated with no follow through. <v John Callaway>Alderman O'Connor. <v Patrick O'Connor>I think that she was taking it in the right direction. <v Patrick O'Connor>I think she came into a bankrupt system and uh she continued some very worthwhile <v Patrick O'Connor>programs. I think initiated a couple. <v Patrick O'Connor>I'd give her a passing mark, certainly. And uh. <v Patrick O'Connor>And you'd like to see her have more time? <v John Callaway>I think. I think she earned it coming in the system the way she did. <v John Callaway>We have another call. Good evening. You're on the air.

<v Caller 2>Yes. I'd like to ask a question of anybody on the panel there, please. <v John Callaway>Yes. <v Caller 2>How can anybody object to having a local man who is so extremely <v Caller 2>well qualified to take over as the head of the Chicago Board of Education? <v John Callaway>Referring to Manford Byrd. <v Caller 2>Referring he has come up through the ranks, superior ratings. <v Caller 2>You know, it's unbelievable that we should search <v Caller 2>elsewhere. <v John Callaway>Well, apparently that's <v Caller 2>invest in our own city. <v John Callaway>Apparently, they're not going to search elsewhere. What do we think? What do you think of Manfred Byrd? <v Clifford Kelley>I think he's fantastic. He ran the school system for seven years. <v Clifford Kelley>Why on the day to day operation while Superintendent Redmond was there. <v Clifford Kelley>And in all deference to to Alderman O'Connor's statement, uh when we talk about <v Clifford Kelley>a selection process, when Hannon was selected, he was just picked out by Dailey and put <v Clifford Kelley>it right over Byrd. The selection process relative to Ruth Love was <v Clifford Kelley>uh was unbelievably poor. <v Patrick O'Connor>The selection process I referred to, was only the process for board members. <v Patrick O'Connor>And I think if their job is important enough to go through a selection process, I think <v Patrick O'Connor>the superintendent's is, I wasn't referring to past superintendents.

<v Clifford Kelley>I-I-I-I'm saying that the selection process of Ruth Love was certainly questionable. <v Clifford Kelley>They changed the method of doing it. <v Clifford Kelley>And every time Manfred Byrd's name came up, obviously he was not really considered. <v John Callaway>Did you create, did you create a short term problem recently for Dr. Love with your your <v John Callaway>com-she-I think something about leaking the uh the test scores? <v Clifford Kelley>Well certainly and that's what happened. I mean, that my suggestion. <v John Callaway>The inflation of those scores, and you made that suggestion on this program. <v Clifford Kelley>And that was obviously what happened. The other thing I want to mention is my presence <v Clifford Kelley>there should not be any different than the fact that Representative Doug Huff was there, <v Clifford Kelley>too. No one mentioned him. <v John Callaway>Did you know what was gonna happen last night? <v Clifford Kelley>Did not know what was going to happen. I went there. <v John Callaway>For the viewers missed your earlier charge. What was your charge about to the tests? <v Clifford Kelley>Well, on a previous program, John, as you remember, I suggested that the test scores had <v Clifford Kelley>been tampered with and that adn that they really were not as good as it was claimed. <v John Callaway>And now there's more evidence. <v Clifford Kelley>That's correct. <v Linda Wertsch>Okay, I broke the story on that audit and <v Linda Wertsch>I was surprised that they had conducted an audit. <v Linda Wertsch>I was not aware that that was being done. I'm not aware of that having been done in other

<v Linda Wertsch>school systems. And I was told that they were suspicious of some of the scores <v Linda Wertsch>in some of the schools. They appeared to be higher than you could real-reasonably expect. <v Linda Wertsch>And so they went back into these schools and did some re-testing. <v John Callaway>Okay, we could go on with this all night, but this was the night we were going to have <v John Callaway>our taxicab debate and we are going to have an abbreviated version of the taxi cab <v John Callaway>debate. Don't you go away Alderman Kelly. <v John Callaway>And we will have George Munoz, the president of the Chicago Board of Education, a man <v John Callaway>who's uh at the center of a great deal of this controversy as our guest on Chicago <v John Callaway>tonight, tomorrow night. But don't go away. We'll be back with a hot debate on the <v John Callaway>Chicago taxi cabs. [muisc] <v John Callaway>Well, another hot story in Chicago is the taxicab controversy.

<v John Callaway>The Transportation Committee of the Chicago City Council will hold important hearings <v John Callaway>tomorrow on proposals to deregulate the cab industry in this town, open it up to more <v John Callaway>competition, remove yellow and checker from the 80 percent dominance of the cab industry <v John Callaway>in this city. Whether or not deregulation should be enacted, a lot of people in Chicago <v John Callaway>are less than satisfied with cab service. <v Al Polk Jr.>The most respected cab driving city in America. <v John Callaway>How long ago? <v Al Polk Jr.>About 1960, 1960 up to 1970, <v Al Polk Jr.>72, 73, even to 74. <v Al Polk Jr.>We were themost respected city in America. <v John Callaway>What happened? <v Al Polk Jr.>People were allowed to drive cabs that didn't get in the business <v Al Polk Jr.>for the purpose of earning a living or earning a livelihood. <v Al Polk Jr.>They got in here for ulterior motives of quick buck, a fast buck [inaudible]. <v Al Polk Jr.>Subsequently, they caused the business to go down. <v Al Polk Jr.>The riding public had less confidence in us. <v Al Polk Jr.>Our image was deflated to its lowest level.

<v Al Polk Jr.>We used to be a respected group of people. <v Al Polk Jr.>We loved the fact that we were driving. <v Al Polk Jr.>We know the business. Those of us who are professionals. <v Al Polk Jr.>The professional drivers don't own a cab license. <v Al Polk Jr.>Very few professionals own a cab license. <v Al Polk Jr.>Very few. <v John Callaway>Who owns them? <v Al Polk Jr.>The people who are ownin' the monopoly and has owned the monopoly <v Al Polk Jr.>ever since, I can remember. <v John Callaway>How do you feel about cab service in this town? <v Passenger 1>I feel that there should be a little more uh <v Passenger 1>better dressed drivers, okay? Uh, better speaking <v Passenger 1>so they know where we're going instead of me telling them how to get there. <v Passenger 1>I don't know if they're trying to cheat me or what. <v John Callaway>What do you think could be done to improve cab service? <v Passenger 2>Well I know I watched program in England where they have uh tests that all their cab <v Passenger 2>drivers have to pass, where they really have to learn the city and they go through a <v Passenger 2>series of tests before they're allowed to drive and I think that especially for if you're <v Passenger 2>going to try to increase tourism here, you really should have a good cab system so when

<v Passenger 2>people get in who don't know where they're going, the cab driver can help them out and <v Passenger 2>take them where they need to go. <v Weekend Driver>But the public will be treated fairly if the lessees are carefully <v Weekend Driver>screened by the cab companies. <v John Callaway>Joining us now to debate the taxi cab controversy is Jeffrey Feldman, president of the <v John Callaway>Yellow Cab Company of Chicago, and staying with us for this segment, we're giving him a <v John Callaway>good workout tonigh, Alderman Clifford Kelley of the 20th Ward. <v John Callaway>Washington's been deregulated. You go into Washington, a lot of cab drivers, the cabs are <v John Callaway>in terrible shape. You go out on the West Coast where you've had some deregulation. <v John Callaway>There are higher fares than ever out there. <v John Callaway>Let's agree that we need better cab service, Aldermen, but his deregulation, the way <v John Callaway>to go? <v Clifford Kelley>Yes, deregulation to some degree, John, the city should still control <v Clifford Kelley>the fare structure and certainly should increase the power to <v Clifford Kelley>to actually investigate the cabs, to examine them, to see whether they are, in fact, safe <v Clifford Kelley>to the public. <v John Callaway>Why should we deregulate, put thousands more cabs on the streets when it could <v John Callaway>be argued that the city has not demonstrated any great ability to have standards, to

<v John Callaway>see that the drivers take the right kind of tests, that the cabs are safe and all that <v John Callaway>sort of thing? Why trust the city with that when they haven't done it, when they had a <v John Callaway>monopoly to work with? <v Clifford Kelley>Well, that was suggested by Mayor former Mayor Byrne when she came <v Clifford Kelley>into office that there had been a very close relationship between the city council and <v Clifford Kelley>the cab industry for years. <v Clifford Kelley>And in fact, they're were not doing things that should have been done. <v Clifford Kelley>The point is, there is no justification to have de-regulate to to regulate the cabs <v Clifford Kelley>where you have a specific maximum number. <v Clifford Kelley>There are 4600 of them. 80 percent of those automatically go to Yellow and Checker, <v Clifford Kelley>which creates a monopoly which has put us in the lawsuit that we're in now. <v John Callaway>Tell us in just a sentence on the lawsuit, you've got you've got a lawsuit with which <v John Callaway>threatens the city with a settlement of what, a 100 million dollars or so? <v Clifford Kelley>Yes, more than that. <v John Callaway>And so you're trying this ordinance that you're proposing? <v Clifford Kelley>Right, and the ordinance if a <v John Callaway>Is a way to get out of it that? <v Clifford Kelley>That's correct. It's a way to get out. In a settlement there would be 400 new licenses <v Clifford Kelley>immediately, 500 on additional on January 1st and in then unlimited amount in <v Clifford Kelley>January of 86. The point is that we have seen that yellow and checker, although

<v Clifford Kelley>they have medallions for many cabs, do not have the cabs for those medallions. <v Clifford Kelley>In certain neighborhoods, you can't even get a cab. <v John Callaway>All right now, Jeffrey Feldman, you've heard an awful lot both on videotape and from the <v John Callaway>alderman. What do you say to the person who says, look, you don't want deregulation, <v John Callaway>fine, but why don't we have better cab service? <v Jeffrey Feldman>John, I think first we have to hit on-on a very important issue here and that's the <v Jeffrey Feldman>issue which the Alderman has alluded to in the lawsuit. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Now, I don't know who in city hall is trying to pull the wool over whose eyes, but <v Jeffrey Feldman>let's talk about the lawsuit. <v Jeffrey Feldman>First of all, the alleged the the settlement of this lawsuit uh the <v Jeffrey Feldman>Federal Trade Commission in its budgetary request <v Jeffrey Feldman>has had a rider attached to its appropriations bill that has passed both House and <v Jeffrey Feldman>Senate. That is going to go to the president for signature on that rider is going to <v Jeffrey Feldman>exempt and unitize cities from actions such as <v Jeffrey Feldman>the one that has been filed against the city of Chicago <v John Callaway>All right. So you're saying that that's all right.

<v John Callaway>What about cab service? Talk to the viewers in this metropolitan area about Chicago cab <v John Callaway>service. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Cab service, cab service in this city, if people have been to other cities throughout <v Jeffrey Feldman>the country today, they have something to be proud about. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Sure, we have roo-where there's always room for improvement. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Uh we're, we're not we're not perfect. <v Jeffrey Feldman>There are ways to improve the service. <v Jeffrey Feldman>But you just don't throw away the baby with the bathwater now. <v John Callaway>Well, I mean, what are you going to do to improve service so that you don't have these <v John Callaway>Aldermen coming after you? <v Jeffrey Feldman>Well, I think it's going to take some some study. <v Jeffrey Feldman>It's gonna take some thought. It's going to take some some talking to experts. <v Jeffrey Feldman>But it's not going to take the panacea is not going to come about by opening <v Jeffrey Feldman>up all these licenses in the city of Chicago. <v John Callaway>Why aren't you more rigorous in the test and the standards for drivers in this- and the <v John Callaway>and the standards for safety in the the cabs? <v Jeffrey Feldman>We have to be able to to pull from the supply of drivers that are available <v Jeffrey Feldman>in the city today. Now, these these drivers have got to go down to city, to the licensing <v Jeffrey Feldman>department. They are they are screened. <v Jeffrey Feldman>They have their their fingerprints taken. They take a test.

<v Jeffrey Feldman>We've been through this in the 70s. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Um, sure you're getting a lot of foreign born drivers nowadays, but that's what our <v Jeffrey Feldman>industry has turned to now. It's no longer the, you know, the cab driving. <v John Callaway>Why do you tu-why do you turn to people who cannot follow instructions and get you to the <v John Callaway>Wrigley Building? <v Jeffrey Feldman>Well we <v John Callaway>Why do you permit that at all? <v Jeffrey Feldman>We have to look at a person who comes into our office with a city chauffeur's licenses <v Jeffrey Feldman>granted to him by the city. The city <v John Callaway>Why does the city permitted then Alderman? <v Clifford Kelley>That's what I was suggesting, suggesting earlier, John, that there has seemingly been a <v Clifford Kelley>very close relationship in past administrations between the cab companies and and <v Clifford Kelley>the city council. <v John Callaway>But why is in the interest of any administration. Why? <v John Callaway>Why don't aldermen want good cabs? <v Clifford Kelley>Many of them do. Oliver Stone and I join on ordinances that would regulate the cab <v Clifford Kelley>company and do other things for a number of years, and other alderman certainly join <v Clifford Kelley>that. The big question is why should we have a maximum number of licenses? <v Clifford Kelley>That doesn't make sense to me. It's totally inconsistent with the doctrine of free <v Clifford Kelley>enterprise and supply and demand. <v Clifford Kelley>You would not have.

<v John Callaway>The reason is because if you can't regulate 4600 cabs, who says you can really regulate <v John Callaway>6800?There's no track record, alderman. <v Clifford Kelley>The point is, if. <v John Callaway>I say you get a hundred cabs out there and regulate those. <v Clifford Kelley>Before regulation and in the other cities there are many cities that has no regulation. <v Clifford Kelley>When I say regulation, John, I'm not talking about a maximum number. <v Clifford Kelley>I'm still saying that you should regulate fares. <v John Callaway>You're talking licensing fares, standards but you don't do that in this city. <v Clifford Kelley> Well, that's another problem. That's another problem. <v John Callaway>But I'm saying first things first. <v Clifford Kelley>There's ot 4600 cabs on the street anyway. <v John Callaway>Mr. Feldman, what are the major arguments against deregulation? <v Jeffrey Feldman>Well, first of all, if I can it, it answers the same question. <v Jeffrey Feldman>We're fortunate Aldermen's, that Alderman Kelley in 1980 proposed an ordinance <v Jeffrey Feldman>of the same nature. And we're fortunate that at that time that the ordinance did not <v Jeffrey Feldman>reach fruition, because during that period of time, a number of cities have gone this <v Jeffrey Feldman>route. We have San Diego, we have Seattle, we have Pheonix, we have Indianapolis, <v Jeffrey Feldman>Atlanta. <v John Callaway>What happened to these cities? <v Jeffrey Feldman>That during the late 70s and as early as 1980 de-regulated. <v Jeffrey Feldman>They went this routine and they are total disasters. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Their tourism and convention businesses are gone.

<v Jeffrey Feldman>We have, I have quotes. <v Clifford Kelley>Because of the cab companies? <v Jeffrey Feldman>No because of the deregulation and the open entry, because they were not able <v Jeffrey Feldman>to handle the number of cabs that flocked on the city streets. <v Clifford Kelley>Let me tell you. <v John Callaway>Wait, wait just one <v Clifford Kelley>Would there be more cab there than than the business would support? <v Clifford Kelley>Obviously not. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Absolutely. Because the prices. <v Clifford Kelley>A guy can't make a living. He can't make a living you can't if, he doesn't have <v Clifford Kelley>passengers. <v Jeffrey Feldman>One of your state-one of your statements. <v Clifford Kelley>In many, in many areas throughout the city, Mr. Feldman, who can't get a cab,. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Alderman I will put <v Clifford Kelley>Many of those cab drivers. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Alderman. <v Clifford Kelley>The come in certain areas and I do know people if they could get a medallion without <v Clifford Kelley>paying an exalted price of $15000 for it that your company has put on that <v John Callaway>Genetlemen, let me cut in. Let's hear from the cab drivers themselves. <v John Callaway>Let's go to the tape that shows some of our cab drivers we talked with yesterday, <v John Callaway>I think. I think we got that tape. <v John Callaway>How would you feel if they opened it up so that there could be a lot more independent cab <v John Callaway>drivers and Yellow and Checker didn't have all of the drivers they have? <v Driver>Well, that will be fine with me because first of all, the majority of cab drivers don't

<v Driver>know what they're doing in the first place. <v Driver>And if the license was open, I wouldn't have to pay a 150 dollars a week for this <v Driver>medallion, and uh I can make a lot more money <v Driver>with a lot less work. <v Driver 2>Well, I think you should be open up. It should you open up. <v John Callaway>Why? <v Driver 2>Because you're working too hard for, you know, very little money. <v Driver 2>Because a cab company charges too much for the lease. <v Driver 3>You know, in Chicago, the already have 5000 cabs and are a lot of driver who drives <v Driver 3>day and night, 24 hours, some drives to early morning and some at night. <v Driver 3>So it's it's not good. <v Driver 3>I don't think so, because uh we already have 5000 numbers. <v Driver 4>I-I don't think it's gonna work out. <v Driver 4>There's too many cabs on the street right now. <v Driver 4>You see, you can't even get in the line anymore. <v John Callaway>Let's go to our phone call. Good evening. You're on the air. <v Caller 3>Uh yes, why is it, I'm a cab driver. <v Caller 3>Why is it that the regulations that do exist uh seem to benfeit exclusively <v Caller 3>with the monoploist like Mr. Feldman instead of benefiting the public by having this

<v Caller 3>industry make more jobs for us benefit and benefit the drivers <v Caller 3>and the public by having more service, better service, and more jobs, so <v Caller 3>that a cab driver wouldn't have to work 20 hours to make a living? <v John Callaway>Mr. Feldman? <v Jeffrey Feldman>Well, first of all, I apologize for nothing. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Yellow Cab Company has been in business since 1916. <v Jeffrey Feldman>We didn't start with 2160 cabs. <v Jeffrey Feldman>We didn't go into a smoke filled room in 1916 with the Alderman and the mayor <v Jeffrey Feldman>and say, okay, now we're going to have this cozy arrangement. <v Jeffrey Feldman>We worked at it. We built upon it. <v Jeffrey Feldman>We reinvested every dime that our company made back into the city of Chicago. <v Jeffrey Feldman>We are a viable and important industry in this city. <v Jeffrey Feldman>What we're saying is that 1960 when the limit was put at 4600 cabs, <v Jeffrey Feldman>we had something like 3.8 million people in this city. <v Jeffrey Feldman>We have now are dropped down to 2.8-2.9 Million and we still have forty six <v Jeffrey Feldman>hundred cars. <v John Callaway>What do you say to that, Alderman Kelley. <v Clifford Kelley>We still have peole that can't get a cab. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Oh, Alderman I. <v John Callaway>It won't necessarily be solved by more cabs. <v Clifford Kelley>Listen, yes.

<v John Callaway>How do you know they won't all go to the airport like they did in these cities who <v John Callaway>deregulated. <v Clifford Kelley>There are people I know when we talked to the union and and all the other people who <v Clifford Kelley>wanted to drive cabs who said they wanted to service certain communities. <v Clifford Kelley>Mr. Feldman talks about 1916 and I understand that the company was great back then <v Clifford Kelley>and there was no deregulation. I mean, there was no regulation back then. <v John Callaway>But don't your studies show that drivers go to the airport instead of serving <v John Callaway>neighborhoods. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Drivers will go where business is. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Now, Alderman, Alderman Kelly, The Sun-Times or the Tribune in July 1st conducted a <v Jeffrey Feldman>survey. They said they couldn't find a cab at five locations in the city and they gave <v Jeffrey Feldman>'em, their intersections south southwest, south side. <v Jeffrey Feldman>We did a study. We sent a Checker and a Yellow cab and had them sit at those locations <v Jeffrey Feldman>for nine hours, stayed at those locations for nine hours. <v Jeffrey Feldman>And the results were absolutely astronomical. <v Jeffrey Feldman>Three of the cab stands didn't materialize any more than one trip, one <v Jeffrey Feldman>cab stand didn't materialize. <v John Callaway>But one last basic question, what do you say to those of us who literally fear for our <v John Callaway>lives getting in a cab because of the safety conditions or not knowing the <v John Callaway>qualifications? What are you going to do? <v Jeffrey Feldman>I will make you a deal.

<v John Callaway>What are you going to do to improve it? <v Jeffrey Feldman>I will make you a deal right now because I will go on the line. <v Jeffrey Feldman>This is a public station. I will pay your station, as a contribution, 25 <v Jeffrey Feldman>dollars for every bad cab that you can call. <v Jeffrey Feldman>I will get pictures of it when we get it in. <v Jeffrey Feldman>And we will check it out for every bad Yellow cab that you can find out there. <v Jeffrey Feldman>I will pay the station 25 dollar. <v John Callaway>Public televisions financial problems have just been solved. <v Jeffrey Feldman>I don't think so. I think we have something we very proud of in the city. <v Jeffrey Feldman>All it takes is a trip to Washington, D.C., to Seattle, to a number of other cities. <v John Callaway>I'll grant your point about Wahington. <v Jeffrey Feldman>To be proud of the te- we take this for granted here in the city of Chicago, which is <v Jeffrey Feldman>something to be of. Sure, it needs help. <v John Callaway>Mr. Feldman. <v Clifford Kelley>Oh, it needs a lot of help. <v John Callaway>Thank you very much for helping us tonight on Chicago tonight. <v John Callaway>Alderman Kelly, thank you for being with us. And thank you for being with us. <v John Callaway>I'm John Callaway. Good night. Tomorrow night, George Munoz, the president of Chicago <v John Callaway>Board of Education, will be with us. Good night. [music]