Right to Know; The First Amendment: A 200-Year Test

<v Narrator>The following program is a co-production of New Jersey Network and suburban Cablevision. <v Arthur Kinoy>The basic consideration is not a question of intentions. <v Arthur Kinoy>The basic consideration is the enforcement of the First Amendment to the <v Arthur Kinoy>Constitution of the United States. <v Joe LoGuidice>If enough of these are around, your First Amendment right is for sale. <v Joe LoGuidice>Unfortunately, mine is not. <v Mark Goodman>Again, the notion is you allow the government in to censor and it's not as if they're <v Mark Goodman>only going to censor the Liberals. <v Patricia Soto>And if something invokes a lot of feel, fears among some minority group of fear <v Patricia Soto>and hate. I think that that also should be censored. <v Allan Wolper>I'm Allan Wolper and this is a special edition of Right to Know. <v Allan Wolper>[music]. <v Allan Wolper>Welba Story, an old Chicago newspaper man said it is the newspaper's

<v Allan Wolper>duty to print the news and raise hell. <v Allan Wolper>That's why 200 years ago, a Bill of Rights Congress got together to add some special <v Allan Wolper>individual rights to the Constitution. <v Allan Wolper>To give the press the right to raise hell. <v Allan Wolper>But media critics are saying that the press has too much power, especially in the light <v Allan Wolper>of what happened in the recent Democratic presidential primaries when people said <v Allan Wolper>the media went too far dealing with Gary Hart's extramarital affairs. <v Karen Mitchell>That was wrong what you guys did it. <v Karen Mitchell>I mean it was just to sell newspapers and report on TV and, you know, capture TV <v Karen Mitchell>audiences. That didn't have no effect on him as a political figure. <v Karen Mitchell>You know, because he had an affair doesn't, you know, affect his judgment and control in <v Karen Mitchell>a country. You guys ruined him. <v Karen Mitchell>You realize that? No, seriously. <v Karen Mitchell>And I mean, like millions of men out there cheating on their wives and you guys don't <v Karen Mitchell>report that. <v Allan Wolper>That Perth Amboy High School student was expressing the views of those Americans <v Allan Wolper>who believe the media are probing too deeply into the personal lives

<v Allan Wolper>of presidential candidates, but the tradition of a press watchdog has <v Allan Wolper>long been part of this country's heritage. <v Allan Wolper>And there will always be a healthy debate about how much the public has a right <v Allan Wolper>to know. The United States Supreme Court has generally upheld the media's right to <v Allan Wolper>probe as long as they tell the truth. <v Allan Wolper>The court earlier this year ruled that principals had the power to edit or censor <v Allan Wolper>high school publications and left open the possibility that college <v Allan Wolper>news organizations might someday lose their rights as well. <v Allan Wolper>The press, sensitive to public criticism, has been trying to police itself, <v Allan Wolper>concerned that its enormous power might be muted by irresponsible <v Allan Wolper>journalism. And the debates continue even at the high school level. <v Kenneth Rivers>I think the government's behind everything that the press does, because if the government <v Kenneth Rivers>feels that they don't want the people to know, they will let them know because they will <v Kenneth Rivers>keep it confidential and top secret like they always do. <v Deliris Hernandez>The government tries to control the media, but really in some cases

<v Deliris Hernandez>it can't because it tries to high secrets, but they find out about it sometimes <v Deliris Hernandez>they don't know how to hide it good enough. <v Allan Wolper>This student has his own First Amendment formula for deciding what the public <v Allan Wolper>should know. <v Frank Sorenson>If it can effect the American public then I think we should have the right to know. <v Frank Sorenson>We should know. If it's gonna affect us we shouldn't be hidden from us. <v Frank Sorenson>If it's not going to affect us then it's not that big of a deal, I guess. <v Frank Sorenson>But if it's going to touch anybody at all that lives in this country it should be known. <v Frank Sorenson>Should have the right to know. <v Deliris Hernandez>Do you tell them everything they have to know? <v Rosemary Pretigiacomo>I try. I do try to tell them as much, but I think more importantly, I triy to get them to <v Rosemary Pretigiacomo>think and to make their own decisions on what they should know. <v Allan Wolper>The New Jersey state legislature ratified the Bill of Rights on November 20th, <v Allan Wolper>1789, in what is now the Perth Amboy City Hall. <v Allan Wolper>It was the first state to do so. <v Allan Wolper>Kathleen DePow, the city historian, lives across the street from <v Allan Wolper>that historic landmark.

<v Allan Wolper>She says the signing had an ironic twist to it. <v Kathleen DePow>I feel it's very significant that Perth Amboy was a part of the Bill of Rights <v Kathleen DePow>because Perth Amboy contributed so much to the history <v Kathleen DePow>of the earlier colonial times by having been a Tory town. <v Kathleen DePow>What is a Tory town? A Tory town is a town that remained loyal to the Crown of England. <v Kathleen DePow>They felt we-we were rebels by wanting to be free people. <v Kathleen DePow>And the fact that then the Bill of Rights was signed here after having felt <v Kathleen DePow>that we shouldn't be free people, that we should remain loyal to the Crown is just so <v Kathleen DePow>incredible. <v Allan Wolper>Do you think we know what the First Amendment is all about? <v Kathleen DePow>No, no, sadly, no. <v Kathleen DePow>Um, it's two extremes I think. <v Kathleen DePow>There are people who don't have the slightest idea. <v Kathleen DePow>And then there are people who know what it is because they're testing it every day. <v Kathleen DePow>And I wish it was just that we were comfortable with it. <v Allan Wolper>The Supreme Court sparked a national of First Amendment debate last January when it ruled <v Allan Wolper>that Robert Reynolds, a principal at Hazelwood East High School in Hazelwood, Missouri,

<v Allan Wolper>had the right to censor his high school paper. <v Allan Wolper>The court said the principal should have as much editorial control as any newspaper <v Allan Wolper>publisher. Student journalists reacted by publishing underground or off campus <v Allan Wolper>newspapers. <v Allan Wolper>In Jefferson Township, in Morris County, New Jersey, officials scooped up 100 copies <v Allan Wolper>of a school publication called, The Brady Bunch Review, afraid the stories <v Allan Wolper>and it might produce violence. The unsigned material offered help to any student harassed <v Allan Wolper>by smokers, police, teachers or gays from a local bar. <v Allan Wolper>Detective Paul Hart is a township juvenile officer. <v Paul Hart>And identified this group as we and went on to say that we <v Paul Hart>were a nonprofit organization that, quote, gets off on breaking <v Paul Hart>people and things or things and people, I forget how they had it worded, <v Paul Hart>um but kind of indicating that they were willing to take on whomever, however, if <v Paul Hart>the need would arise or if they were asked.

<v Allan Wolper>Several papers say the student's First Amendment rights were being violated. <v Allan Wolper>Hart says, however, that the papers he spoke to would not have run a story like <v Allan Wolper>that. <v Paul Hart>If I called your newspaper and said, look, I'll pay for the ad, but I'd like to run an ad <v Paul Hart>and I'd like that he had to read, "Problems, someone picking on you, something bothering <v Paul Hart>you, smokers in the bathroom, so on and so forth. <v Paul Hart>I represent a group that's willing to do physical violence or damage. <v Paul Hart>And, you know, if you have a problem, give us a call." And would you and would you read <v Paul Hart>the newspaper on it? And virtually every one of them said no and I said well, why not? <v Paul Hart>And they said we're not that kind of newspaper. <v Allan Wolper>The media have been accused of being afraid to criticize their own industry. <v Allan Wolper>But some newspapers have hired ombudsman or reader representatives to handle <v Allan Wolper>reader complaints and sometimes write about them in their own papers. <v Allan Wolper>Ralph Williamson is the ombudsman for the Home News in New Brunswick. <v Allan Wolper>What do readers complain about most in this country? <v Ralph Williamson>The use of anonymous sources, unattributed

<v Ralph Williamson>uh material. <v Ralph Williamson>It's not a major problem of this newspaper, but it's a small problem <v Ralph Williamson>around the country. It seems to be a growing problem. <v Allan Wolper>Why is it a problem? <v Ralph Williamson>Well, I think it goes right to the heart of the credibility question. <v Ralph Williamson>If you can't tell the reader who the source is then the reader has no way <v Ralph Williamson>of knowing whether the material is is credible or not. <v Allan Wolper>But the Home News Ombudsman believes newspapers today are better <v Allan Wolper>than they've ever been. <v Ralph Williamson>By and large, I think the public is be, is well-served. <v Ralph Williamson>I think that the standards of journalism are higher than they've ever been. <v Allan Wolper>And now the panelists who will discuss those First Amendment issues, Robert <v Allan Wolper>Reynolds, won a U.S. Supreme Court ruling that gave school administrators the <v Allan Wolper>right to censor or edit their high school papers. <v Allan Wolper>Nancy Louciana is a defense lawyer who tried to keep four victims of a <v Allan Wolper>brutal assault by mass murderer Joseph Kalinger from being identified

<v Allan Wolper>in a book. Wilbert Tatum is editor in chief and publisher of The Amsterdam <v Allan Wolper>News, the most influential black newspaper in America. <v Allan Wolper>Dianne Doctor is the executive producer of the W W O R TV <v Allan Wolper>Channel Nine Ten O'clock News Program. <v Allan Wolper>She was a former reporter at the New Jersey Network News. <v Allan Wolper>Richard Eitromm is the libel lawyer for the Asbury Park Press and a partner <v Allan Wolper>in the Newark, New Jersey law firm of McCarter and English. <v Allan Wolper>Reed Irvine is chairman of the Board of Accuracy and Media in Washington, D.C., <v Allan Wolper>an organization that monitors the news media. <v Allan Wolper>Arthur Kinoy is professor of law at Rutgers University and an expert on <v Allan Wolper>constitutional law. <v Allan Wolper>Joan Whitlow is the medical editor and a columnist for The Star-Ledger in Newark. <v Allan Wolper>Mark Goodman is executive director of the Student Press Law Center in Washington, <v Allan Wolper>D.C., which advises high school and college students on their First <v Allan Wolper>Amendment rights.

<v Allan Wolper>Now it is time to meet a person who claims he's the most misunderstood man in America, <v Allan Wolper>Robert Reynolds. Mr. Reynolds, are you a censor? <v Robert Reynolds>No. I don't consider myself a censor. <v Robert Reynolds>I consider myself a part of the editing process in the spectrum, <v Robert Reynolds>which is a school newspaper, at Hazelwood East High School. <v Robert Reynolds>We felt in our case that the Board of Education and Hazelwood School District owned that <v Robert Reynolds>newspaper. They paid for all of the printing costs, hired <v Robert Reynolds>the teacher who has a degree in journalism, provides the classroom and <v Robert Reynolds>all the equipment and materials that are used to put to publish that newspaper. <v Robert Reynolds>Um, I felt then and I still feel that I'm part of the editing process. <v Allan Wolper>Mr. Goodman, is- should he be part of the editing process? <v Mark Goodman>I think not. I mean, the whole notion is of hiring a a trained journalism <v Mark Goodman>advisor for a student publication is to teach students to make those editorial decisions <v Mark Goodman>for themselves. Once you get a principal involved in it, the chances are you're going to <v Mark Goodman>get a student newspaper that really isn't news anymore.

<v Allan Wolper>How newsy is your paper? <v Robert Reynolds>It covers the news at East High School that most of the faculty and students are <v Robert Reynolds>interested in. And we do not avoid any particular topics or points of view. <v Robert Reynolds>By board policy in our district number 328 <v Robert Reynolds>guarantees that students can write diverse viewpoints. <v Allan Wolper>Reed Irvine your a critique of just about everybody, you think that Robert Reynolds is <v Allan Wolper>right or Mark Goodman is right? <v Reed Irvine>I think Mr. Reynolds is absolutely right. <v Reed Irvine>The uh one of the things that journalists students are going to have to learn when they <v Reed Irvine>get out into the world is they're going to have to work for publishers. <v Reed Irvine>And the publishers have a voice in what goes into uh into the papers. <v Reed Irvine>A lot of journalists, a lot of reporters don't like that fact, but that's one of the <v Reed Irvine>facts of life. And it's just as well that they learn that while they're still in school <v Reed Irvine>is having to learn it the hard way when they get out and maybe lose their jobs as a <v Reed Irvine>result of going against something the publisher doesn't like or wants done. <v Allan Wolper>Bill Tatum, you're a publisher. What do you think about all this? <v Wilbert Tatum>Jokingly, I might say that a great American newspaper

<v Wilbert Tatum>once said, "That the only freedom of the press reposits <v Wilbert Tatum>with he or she who owns the press." Having said <v Wilbert Tatum>that, as the editor of my high school newspaper in Durham, North Carolina, and my <v Wilbert Tatum>college newspaper at Lincoln University in Pennsylvania, I resent <v Wilbert Tatum>the idea of a principal of a school um <v Wilbert Tatum>editing what has been done already by the students <v Wilbert Tatum>and the student adviser. <v Wilbert Tatum>I believe that if the student advisor had passed the <v Wilbert Tatum>news and the copy, that the principal had no business getting into the act. <v Wilbert Tatum>[applause]. Now, if someone were to be fired, it would be that <v Wilbert Tatum>student advisor for not exercising good judgment. <v Allan Wolper>Arthur Kinoy, you look like you're ready to say something.

<v Arthur Kinoy>Well, I think we face a very serious problem because <v Arthur Kinoy>what has not been sufficiently understood and discussed is that the basic <v Arthur Kinoy>consideration is not a question of intentions. <v Arthur Kinoy>The basic consideration is the enforcement of the First Amendment to the <v Arthur Kinoy>Constitution of the United States. [applause] Which goes at the heart <v Arthur Kinoy>of the American system of government. <v Arthur Kinoy>There has been a very broad <v Arthur Kinoy>and in accurate reading of the Supreme Court <v Arthur Kinoy>opinion in the Hazelwood case, the majority <v Arthur Kinoy>opinion in the Supreme Court does not hold that <v Arthur Kinoy>school principals have the general right and power <v Arthur Kinoy>to edit or censor school publications. <v Arthur Kinoy>One of the dangers that we face in this country and I say to my friends <v Arthur Kinoy>in the press, learn how to read Supreme Court opinions <v Arthur Kinoy>and don't over generalize them.

<v Arthur Kinoy>And we are now facing a situation in which <v Arthur Kinoy>students must understand that when <v Arthur Kinoy>Justice White said that the first page of that opinion agreed to by the dissenting <v Arthur Kinoy>justices, Brennan and Marshall Blackman, that students <v Arthur Kinoy>do not shed their constitutional rights to freedom of press or expression <v Arthur Kinoy>at the schoolhouse gate, that the court means that and you <v Arthur Kinoy>should not surrender one inch of your rights <v Arthur Kinoy>to publish whatever you believe <v Arthur Kinoy>is a useful, valuable idea. <v Arthur Kinoy>Even if it is an idea school principals do not like. <v Allen Wolper>Professor Kinoy, Professor, <v Allen Wolper>Professor Kinoy, the one thing we practice in journalism that we always accuse the law of <v Allen Wolper>not practicing is being fair. <v Allen Wolper>Mr. Reynolds, how about replying to that, then we'll go to the audience.

<v Robert Reynolds>I don't know of any or I will say for myself that I don't have a background in <v Robert Reynolds>journalism. I have no experience in journalism. <v Robert Reynolds>I have a minor in English, and that's as close as I'm going to come to to journalism. <v Robert Reynolds>The thing that I feel that the Supreme Court was addressing <v Robert Reynolds>so far is a principal's role. <v Robert Reynolds>We were not license to to censor newspapers, <v Robert Reynolds>and I would not ever do that. I believe in a First Amendment rights and the rights of <v Robert Reynolds>students as much as anyone. And I'm as strong as as Professor Kinoy in that <v Robert Reynolds>feeling. When you have a good, competent journalism teacher <v Robert Reynolds>and students that have a concern about a topic or an issue and comes to the principal <v Robert Reynolds>for it. I believe principals really should butt out and keep their noses out of it until <v Robert Reynolds>they're invited. I don't think the principal should have to read every article of every <v Robert Reynolds>newspaper produced that can lead to other problems. <v Robert Reynolds>But the principal brings to that publishing process the same thing that he brings to

<v Robert Reynolds>every decision that has to be made in a high school. <v Robert Reynolds>And that is good common sense and judgment and that- <v Allen Wolper>But Mr. Reynolds, do you agree with Professor Kinoy's interpretation of the Supreme Court <v Allen Wolper>decision? <v Robert Reynolds>That students have unbridled <v Robert Reynolds>or unabridged freedoms of First Amendment? <v Allen Wolper>He's hollering First Amendment right at you. <v Robert Reynolds>I know he is. <v Robert Reynolds>But the language goes on to state and I don't think that I'll quote this <v Robert Reynolds>exactly that but they don't have all the rights of adults in other places. <v Allen Wolper>Now, the audience and by the way, this is not all about Hazelwood. <v Robert Lee>I'm the student government president at Union County College in Cranford, New Jersey. <v Robert Lee>And as such, I am in charge of approximately 105,000 dollar budget for student <v Robert Lee>organizations, which also funds the student newspaper. <v Robert Lee>Now, I can be considered following the illusion of Mr. Tate and Mr. Reynolds, the quote <v Robert Lee>unquote, publisher and ultimate arbiter of the funds of this <v Robert Lee>publication. I could always pull funding at a at any point and I could always convince my <v Robert Lee>board to do so. But that's not my job.

<v Robert Lee>And that's why we have an editorial board. <v Robert Lee>That's why we have editors, because we put our trust in them, that they have their <v Robert Lee>judgment. <v Reed Irvine>Suppose it's one of the students put out a story about AIDS and identified all the people <v Reed Irvine>in your school who had AIDS. What would you do about that? <v Robert Lee>As far as the information I don't think people have a right to know about diseases <v Robert Lee>if if it has been proven that uh. <v Reed Irvine>Even if it's true. <v Robert Lee>If it's true, they have the disease. That's not the issue. If it's true that normal, <v Robert Lee>everyday physical contact is a transmission mode for AIDS, then we have a problem. <v Robert Lee>But unless you're putting a list of potential dangerous sex partners, that's that's just <v Robert Lee>garbage. <v Reed Irvine>So your good judgment, you would censor that huh? <v Robert Lee>I wouldn't censor that. I have a serious talk with the editor, though. <v Reed Irvine>What would you say to him? <v Robert Lee>I'd say I have a serious problem with this. <v Robert Lee>And what is your reason for printing this? <v Robert Lee>And what do you think this is supposed to accomplish? <v Robert Lee>I mean, again, intention always comes into it and intentions can be hidden and agendas <v Robert Lee>can be hidden. <v Reed Irvine>What if he tells you that you don't know your business? <v Robert Lee>She. She. <v Reed Irvine>She says that's none of your business I'm going to print it.

<v Robert Lee>Well, then uh I've I've known her for a while. <v Robert Lee>And I'd say and we're gonna have a very, very long talk before something goes on here. <v Robert Lee>I would have to moved- <v Reed Irvine>In other words you'd censor it. In other words, you'd censor. <v Robert Lee>I wouldn't say that. I can't say that uh directly yes or no. <v Robert Lee>It's a it's a judgment call that would have to happen in the the situation. <v Mark Goodman>I don't think what this points out is, is the notion that when you allow any government <v Mark Goodman>official, whether it be student government or anyone into the editorial process, there is <v Mark Goodman>the risk that they are going to take on the role of editor. <v Mark Goodman>And the point is, if they want to be editor, they should be editor. <v Mark Goodman>But they should name themselves as editor and not appoint someone else to that position, <v Mark Goodman>you know. If you've got a student newspaper at a high school such is as Hazelwood East <v Mark Goodman>High School, the spectrum, um and you're allowing the principal who is really the leader <v Mark Goodman>of that school to determine what is news and what isn't by influencing the editorial <v Mark Goodman>process, you're not going to get a student newspaper that does a very good job of <v Mark Goodman>covering that student that school. <v Allen Wolper>There's always that-this problem is something that happens in daily journalism as well. <v Allen Wolper>What do you print? Do you print the names of people who have communicable diseases? <v Allen Wolper>How do you handle Joan Whitlow? What do you do with the Star Ledger?

<v Joan Whitlow>Well, part of what you also have to think about, what's a news story, the fact that <v Joan Whitlow>given a number of people at any high school university out in the public <v Joan Whitlow>have AIDS, has AIDS may not be the story and it may rather be, how did that <v Joan Whitlow>list become public? <v Joan Whitlow>And in that case, I'd be more interested in making editorial judgment and how that list <v Joan Whitlow>became public and perhaps talk to some of those folks about how they feel about it. <v Joan Whitlow>Just running the names, you know, sometimes I think we do get caught up in the, you know, <v Joan Whitlow>we got the information let's show everybody we got and we got it first. <v Joan Whitlow>I don't think that necessarily rises to the level of the news story. <v Allen Wolper>Dianne Doctor, what happens when you get a story like that? <v Dianne Doctor>I think there's always a concern about using the name of a victim or <v Dianne Doctor>in this case, an an AIDS victim without their permission or consent, <v Dianne Doctor>consent or the consent of a parent. <v Dianne Doctor>I know that we have very strict guidelines in those matters-. <v Allen Wolper>You censor things too? <v Dianne Doctor>Well, in through the editorial process, we decide what's appropriate

<v Dianne Doctor>and what's not appropriate. I would not print uh I would not televise <v Dianne Doctor>the names of uh a number of AIDS patients if I was handed a list <v Dianne Doctor>and asked to uh televise it. <v Dianne Doctor>I think that would be a sensitive issue. <v Allen Wolper>That's the end of round one of this Bill of Rights Congress. <v Allen Wolper>We'll be right back right after this. [applause] <v Arthur Kinroy>[music] Do not confuse the word censorship with the right of <v Arthur Kinroy>the staff of a publication to decide what it <v Arthur Kinroy>is going to publish. <v Joe LoGuidice>[music] With all due respect, Mr. Reynolds, from listening to your background, I believe

<v Joe LoGuidice>you should have absolutely no say in any newspaper, whether it be high school, <v Joe LoGuidice>professional or anything. Anyone who doesn't know journalism should not have anything to <v Joe LoGuidice>say about it. And to Mr. Irving, to Mr. Reed and <v Joe LoGuidice>Mr. Reynolds, also listening to your def-your decision <v Joe LoGuidice>on why to censor the high school as paying for the publication <v Joe LoGuidice>and paying for the equipment. <v Joe LoGuidice>What that tells me is that enough of if enough of these are around your First <v Joe LoGuidice>Amendment right is for sale. Unfortunately, mine is not. <v Joe LoGuidice>The question is not the decision to censor this based on money. <v Joe LoGuidice>A parallel that could be taken into the professional world in censoring articles in <v Joe LoGuidice>newspapers based on advertising. <v Reed Irvine>The fact of the matter is that as was indicated earlier in the discussion was Mr. Lee, <v Reed Irvine>the things are being censored all the time by reporters, by editors, <v Reed Irvine>the reporters who decide that something is not newsworthy. <v Reed Irvine>They may be a tiny minority maybe it's something of great importance to the readers, but <v Reed Irvine>because of their own personal interests or political interests or whatever, they decide,

<v Reed Irvine>they're not going to tell a story. The editors may censor material and keep it up. <v Reed Irvine>That happens. I notice that Mr. Tatum is chairman of the board, CEO, <v Reed Irvine>and editor in chief of his newspaper, The Amsterdam News. <v Reed Irvine>Now, I'd like to put this question to Mr. Tatum. <v Reed Irvine>If you were to resign that post of editor in chief, uh Bill, and we simply to become <v Reed Irvine>the CEO and the chairman of the board. <v Reed Irvine>And you've got an editor who disagreed with you about Mayor Ed Koch and decided you want <v Reed Irvine>to run an article or an editorial saying that Ed Koch should not resign. <v Reed Irvine>Would that be okay with you and will you say that because he's the editor in chief, he <v Reed Irvine>should run that article? <v Wilbert Tatum>I would have no problem with it. As a matter of fact, I've had Ed Koch <v Wilbert Tatum>write a column in my newspaper or a letter to me <v Wilbert Tatum>saying how stupid some of our articles are. <v Wilbert Tatum>And he said that we had no right or we were being divisive. <v Wilbert Tatum>And I've printed what Mr. Ed Koch had to say.

<v Wilbert Tatum>I understand. But you see, I do. You raise a hypothetical here. <v Wilbert Tatum>Oh, I'm talking about a very real thing when I talk about a person whom I believe to be <v Wilbert Tatum>a clear and present danger. <v Wilbert Tatum>As um editor in chief, as editor in chief if I were designed <v Wilbert Tatum>to resign that slot, I would still have every right to write an op <v Wilbert Tatum>ed piece in a newspaper that I control. <v Mark Goodman>Allan, let me add something here. That fundamental distinction that hasn't been raised <v Mark Goodman>yet, the difference between Mr. Tatum and the difference between Mr. Reynolds is Mr. <v Mark Goodman>Reynolds is government. He is acting on the basis for authority given to him by the <v Mark Goodman>state. Mr. Tatum, as publisher of his newspaper, is a private individual and the First <v Mark Goodman>Amendment specifically prohibits actions by government officials and not by private <v Mark Goodman>individuals. <v Allen Wolper>It's time for some free space for the Bill of Rights Congress in the audience. <v James Leavitt>Yes, my name is Jim Leavitt of Redbank Regional and I'm the editor at the this year's <v James Leavitt>yearbook. And I have a question for Mr. Reynolds and Mr. Irvine. <v James Leavitt>Do editors have the right to edit and to use their own common

<v James Leavitt>common sense and good judgment? <v James Leavitt>Where does the job of the editor and the adviser leave off and where does the principal <v James Leavitt>take up on this? Is he on the staff box? <v Robert Reynolds>I think that the principal should only get involved whenever these students and the <v Robert Reynolds>adviser comes to him with a question or a problem or for his judgment, as I stated <v Robert Reynolds>earlier. That would be the only thing that I would bring to an editorial decision <v Robert Reynolds>is a judgment that I would exercise in any kind of question that came up <v Robert Reynolds>in my high school. <v Arthur Kinoy>Except for one thing, Mr. Reynolds. <v Arthur Kinoy>You, as a representative of the governing power <v Arthur Kinoy>of the state, you are bound by the First Amendment. <v Arthur Kinoy>You can not just use your good judgment. <v Arthur Kinoy>You have to follow the rules of the First Amendment and <v Arthur Kinoy>Justice White in the-as was the decision re <v Arthur Kinoy>states the basic rule, which people tend to forget about

<v Arthur Kinoy>a decision known as Tinker against DesMoine 1969. <v Arthur Kinoy>And all of you may remember that that's where students came into their school <v Arthur Kinoy>with black armbands protesting against the war in Vietnam, <v Arthur Kinoy>and they were punished for that. And the Supreme Court held they had the right of freedom <v Arthur Kinoy>of speech. What emerged out of that? <v Arthur Kinoy>A test for you, for the principals. <v Arthur Kinoy>You do not have the power, whether you like or dislike <v Arthur Kinoy>statements or material from a student publication <v Arthur Kinoy>to censor it, unless first it materially disrupts <v Arthur Kinoy>class work or secondly, involves substantial <v Arthur Kinoy>disorder or the invasion of fundamental <v Arthur Kinoy>rights of others. <v Arthur Kinoy>That's the test you must follow where you're dealing with a student publication. <v Arthur Kinoy>Otherwise, you have no power, even though you totally dislike <v Arthur Kinoy>what is being said.

<v Reed Irvine>The fact matter is that the Supreme Court decided to read and behave properly. <v Reed Irvine>So I don't know what your argument is. <v Arthur Kinoy>Only because she was this newspaper was being published <v Arthur Kinoy>as part of the curriculum in a journalism department <v Arthur Kinoy>for which students got on credit. <v Reed Irvine>Fine. Fine. Period. All- all, that he has to do is do what Mr. Tatum does, and he puts <v Reed Irvine>himself on the masthead as the editor in chief of the paper and he turns it over to <v Reed Irvine>students. That's all right. That would be all right with you I guess wouldn't it? <v Arthur Kinoy>That'll be fine. If some of those students are in that situation, call me and we'll go to <v Arthur Kinoy>federal court on that one. [applause and cheering] <v Allen Wolper>We have a question from the audience. <v Ahadi Bugg>If the principal is given absolute authority, couldn't key articles, depending upon <v Ahadi Bugg>the opinions of the principal, be edited, such as articles mentioning homosexual rights <v Ahadi Bugg>and other civil civil liberties? <v Ahadi Bugg>What if the principal were against students civil rights groups and did not allow them to <v Ahadi Bugg>voice their opinion? What if he disagreed with an editorial board's political <v Ahadi Bugg>preference? Could he censor clearly identified editorial opinion? <v Robert Reynolds>The court directed that or part of the language, if I can remember it, um

<v Robert Reynolds>that a school should be kept in a position of neutrality when it comes to political <v Robert Reynolds>issues. So I think you would have to, let's say that the editorial board of <v Robert Reynolds>the newspaper were pro one political candidate versus another. <v Robert Reynolds>There there should be balance, and I think that's responsible journalism. <v Robert Reynolds>But anytime that responsible journalism or the tenets of responsible journalism <v Robert Reynolds>is followed, then the principal, I don't think has any place to meddle. <v Allen Wolper>Of course, that's according to the principal. <v Robert Reynolds>That's true. <v Allen Wolper>The audience. <v Tom Davis>We've been talking about the legalities of uh legality questions regarding this decision <v Tom Davis>and everything more about the moral side. <v Mark Goodman>Allan, I want to respond to that if I can. I think this is a real fundamental problem of <v Mark Goodman>Supreme Court decision beyond the legality of it is we got to think of how we're <v Mark Goodman>preparing tomorrow's professional journalists and what we're teaching them about the <v Mark Goodman>government's ability to decide for them what is news and what isn't. <v Mark Goodman>You know, I think that what we're saying is when principals come in and censor student

<v Mark Goodman>publications, which happens all around the country at every um state and <v Mark Goodman>every county, sometime during a school year, when principals do censor <v Mark Goodman>they're teaching students indirectly to disregard this really fundamental notion of free <v Mark Goodman>expression, that hopefully we're hoping that that our students are gaining as as students <v Mark Goodman>and will have as an adult. <v Allen Wolper>Is it fair for us to keep saying keep using the word censor when everybody has <v Allen Wolper>editors who constantly cut your copy and make do horrible things to you because <v Allen Wolper>they have in the argument that you need a cut space and things like that. <v Arthur Kinoy>But if the state sends in a representative to your publishing office <v Arthur Kinoy>and says we, the state of New Jersey say you cannot publish that, <v Arthur Kinoy>then you've got a wholly different question. <v Arthur Kinoy>Do not confuse the word censorship with the right <v Arthur Kinoy>of the staff of a publication to decide <v Arthur Kinoy>what it is going to publish,. <v Allen Wolper>So federal government has FCC roles. <v Arthur Kinoy>It is not a state publication. It's a student publication.

<v Reed Irvine>Paid for by the state. <v Arthur Kinoy>You should go back and read. <v Reed Irvine>Paid for by the state. <v Arthur Kinoy>You should read this opinion that says, where is a student- <v Reed Irvine>I might, I might disagree with the opinion. <v Reed Irvine>I mean, that is you know, that's my right isn't it? <v Arthur Kinoy>Absolutey you're right but don't go around saying the Supreme Court has decided that <v Arthur Kinoy>the principals have the right to censor. <v Arthur Kinoy>It has not decided that. <v Allen Wolper>Let's go to the audience. <v Mike Eovino>Mike Eovino, I'm an editor for The Readback Regional Buccaneer. <v Mike Eovino>Now Mr. Irvine, this has to do with the probing into the backgrounds of candidates <v Mike Eovino>for office. Do you feel that morality is an important quality in a candidate for office? <v Mike Eovino>Do you think that it should be made an issue in an election? <v Mike Eovino>And do you think that candidates for office should be scrutinized a little bit more <v Mike Eovino>closely than just an ordinary person on the street? <v Reed Irvine>Well, you know, it was said earlier this year that character was going to be the big <v Reed Irvine>issue in the 1988 election. And uh this was after the Gary Hart affair. <v Reed Irvine>Yes, I think character is a very important issue for a political candidate.

<v Reed Irvine>Certainly once a candidate is elected, if he is elected to office. <v Reed Irvine>His character is going to get a lot of scrutiny, not only his character, but the <v Reed Irvine>character of the people that he appoints to office. <v Reed Irvine>And I have said and will say here again, that not only should the candidate be <v Reed Irvine>scrutinized, but we ought to know more about who he is likely to appoint <v Reed Irvine>so we can find out something about their characters as well. <v Reed Irvine>This is one of the things that uh the public has a right to know about. <v Reed Irvine>But it's one of the things I must say that the media are not very anxious to go into, in <v Reed Irvine>most cases. <v Allen Wolper>Let's get down to the nitty gritty. How many of you would publish a story? <v Allen Wolper>Or a series of stories about some student government candidates having affairs <v Allen Wolper>with people that they shouldn't be having affairs with at school. <v Allen Wolper>I mean, Gary Hart had to start somewhere, right? <v Wilbert Tatum>Allan, are you suggesting with a teacher? <v Allen Wolper>A teacher, not a teacher, a fellow student, someone running against them? <v Allen Wolper>Somebody down here.

<v Richard Eittreim>Got a lot of courageous journalists out there. <v Allen Wolper>There we go. <v Allen Wolper>You can give us some legal advice, Rich. <v Richard Eittreim>They're gonna need it if they try that. <v Joseph Biggio>My name is Joey Biggio. I'm the news editor of the Drew University ACORN and editor in <v Joseph Biggio>chief elect for next year. <v Joseph Biggio>Um, I think that publishing like what's going on with S.G., student government <v Joseph Biggio>candidates, things like that. I think that would be totally different because although it <v Joseph Biggio>may not make sense to say this college morality is different from real world morality. <v Joseph Biggio>[laughter] <v Allen Wolper>Would you explain that? <v Joseph Biggio>Um, I'd rather not. [laughs] It's just that people <v Joseph Biggio>what's going on in the real world, like in the United States with Guy Hart's morality. <v Joseph Biggio>He's going to have a lot more effect on a lot more people than <v Joseph Biggio>a student government president is going to have on <v Joseph Biggio>the- what goes on at the college or or the high school for that. <v Allen Wolper>Not to the students at the college.

<v Joseph Biggio>But how much- but the fact comes back to how much control does the administration <v Joseph Biggio>have over the student government? <v Allen Wolper>So what's the answer? Yes or no? <v Joseph Biggio>I don't think that it would be necessary to publish that information. <v Allen Wolper>Anybody here publish that? <v Allen Wolper>Well, that answers that question. <v Allen Wolper>What do you think, Richard? What would you advise them if somebody decided to print that <v Allen Wolper>kind of a story in a college newspaper? <v Allen Wolper>I know what Robert Reynolds would do. <v Richard Eittreim>I believe that they could be in serious trouble. <v Richard Eittreim>One of the things that these student newspapers and editors have to realize, that <v Richard Eittreim>they are just a subject to all of our common law, which is the libel on privacy law, as <v Richard Eittreim>The New York Times or any other paper. <v Richard Eittreim>Which is one reason I get a little bit concerned when we try to kick the principal out of <v Richard Eittreim>the picture. I think the students to some degree do <v Richard Eittreim>need guidance. And I think the problem is finding out how that guidance should <v Richard Eittreim>be delivered and what are the parameters for that guidance. <v Richard Eittreim>I have to disagree with Professor Kinoy to some extent.

<v Richard Eittreim>I'm concerned that the Supreme Court, while it did reaffirm the First Amendment <v Richard Eittreim>rights of students to to do to publish what <v Richard Eittreim>they need to publish and feel they should publish. <v Richard Eittreim>On the other hand, the bottom line of that opinion is that the principal gets pretty much <v Richard Eittreim>to do what he wants. The standard is whether or not the material <v Richard Eittreim>is reasonably related to pedagogical concerns, which is a very broad standard. <v Richard Eittreim>And I think what is needed are guidelines passed by boards of education, reasonable <v Richard Eittreim>guidelines, which they work with their editors to develop, perhaps even state laws <v Richard Eittreim>or regulations to put some better flesh on the very <v Richard Eittreim>loose standard that we have right now. <v Allen Wolper>Question in the back. <v Carlos Faris>My question is to Mr. Irvine. <v Carlos Faris>You said that the state pays for the publication and everything or <v Carlos Faris>Mr. Reynolds, they said the state pay for publication. <v Carlos Faris>But who pays the state us as taxpayers pay for the state? <v Carlos Faris>So don't we have the right to publish what we want then?

<v Carlos Faris>[applause] I'm Carlos <v Carlos Faris>A. Farir, reporter and editor [inaudible] Stanley College. <v Reed Irvine>I don't know how much you paid for what goes on in Hazelwood in the Hazelwood School <v Reed Irvine>District. I assume that the parents are the taxpayers out there and the school board <v Reed Irvine>is elected, I presume in Hazelwood is elected by the parents. <v Reed Irvine>And therefore is that is representing the taxpayers, right? <v Reed Irvine>I think they have some voice in it. And according to your formula, they are obviously <v Reed Irvine>entitled to have a voice in it. Right? <v Allen Wolper>There's a question right over here. <v Reed Irvine>[someone yelling from audience] Not you. We're talking about Hazelwood, right? <v Carlos Faris>But either way, either way, that the taxpayer there are paying to the state so <v Carlos Faris>they should have every right to make a decision without a principal or a government <v Carlos Faris>making the decision for them. <v Reed Irvine>And their elected representatives sit on the school board. <v Reed Irvine>The school boards have something to do with the appointment of the principal. <v Carlos Faris>Yeah, but they elected to decide either on the principal standard, they elected <v Carlos Faris>to know what's going on in school, not to stop publication. <v Reed Irvine>Like your interpretation, that's your interpretation. It Isn't theirs obviously.

<v Nancy Lucianna>I would like to expand on the Hazelwood issue. <v Nancy Lucianna>I totally agree with Professor Kinoy on the holding of Hazelwood. <v Nancy Lucianna>It was a very narrow holding, and I'd go a little further. <v Nancy Lucianna>It was even fact specific in that case. <v Nancy Lucianna>That case dealt with high school students who are dealing here with <v Nancy Lucianna>people who are under the age of consent. <v Nancy Lucianna>I think that case would be different if it concerned a university <v Nancy Lucianna>where we're dealing with adults, people who are of the age of consent. <v Nancy Lucianna>And I might add that the United States Supreme Court has always been <v Nancy Lucianna>extremely sensitive to children and to how things <v Nancy Lucianna>are going to affect the children. <v Nancy Lucianna>Here we're dealing with high school students. <v Nancy Lucianna>They're a little older than the term children and teenagers, but the court has always <v Nancy Lucianna>been very sensitive to that. I think perhaps if it dealt with the university, <v Nancy Lucianna>the result may have been different. <v Reed Irvine>I agree. And I-that raises another question. We had a situation at Dartmouth College

<v Reed Irvine>just recently. Where four students were disciplined, two of them suspended for <v Reed Irvine>18 months over an interview that they were doing for their newspaper, The Dartmouth <v Reed Irvine>Review, with one of the professors. <v Reed Irvine>They became a vexatious oral exchange, according to the uh president <v Reed Irvine>university. And for that, they were suspended. <v Reed Irvine>There were no blows struck. There was nothing disorderly about it except on the part of <v Reed Irvine>the protester who tried to take away their tape recorder and their camera. <v Allen Wolper>That's kind of a violent exchange. <v Reed Irvine>Well, that was on the part of the professor, but he was not disciplined. <v Reed Irvine>It was the students who were trying to keep their camera and tape recorder from being <v Reed Irvine>taken away. <v Allen Wolper>I'd be very upset if someone tried to take my tape recorder away. <v Reed Irvine>Right. Now, you see this Hazelwood's situation has gotten <v Reed Irvine>a lot of attention. How many of you know about the Dartmouth College situation? <v Reed Irvine>Let me ask you. Very few of you have even heard of it. <v Reed Irvine>And yet this is a very important issue of freedom of the press at the college level, <v Reed Irvine>which has just been just been pointed out as more serious. <v Reed Irvine>Isn't the college, by suspending those students, in effect, sending

<v Reed Irvine>a chilling message to that paper? <v Allen Wolper>You know, I think we're at where we're just beginning to get to something that Mark <v Allen Wolper>Goodman and I discussed, and that is unpopular thought on campus, in fact, <v Allen Wolper>unpopular thought everywhere. Mark? <v Mark Goodman>I think the Dartmouth situation is a good example of what <v Mark Goodman>many people don't expect to be a problem with censorship, but whether rather students <v Mark Goodman>with conservative viewpoints as opposed to liberal viewpoints who are being censored in <v Mark Goodman>their student publications and it's happening in high schools as well. <v Mark Goodman>If you read the Student Press Law Center's publication, you'd read about the Dartmouth <v Mark Goodman>Review situation. But we have high school students calling us every week with problems <v Mark Goodman>where they want to write a column um advocating prayer in the schools <v Mark Goodman>or they run write a story about a local group, a fellowship of Christian athletes, <v Mark Goodman>and are prevented from doing so in their school sponsored publication by a principal. <v Mark Goodman>Again, the notion is you allow the government into censor and it's not as if they're only <v Mark Goodman>going to censor the liberals. Censor across the spectrum, though, views those viewpoints <v Mark Goodman>that they disagree with.

<v Allen Wolper>Depends on what the principal believes in. Question. <v Beth Bressen>My name is Beth Bressen. I'm from Columbia High School, South Orange, Maplewood, New <v Beth Bressen>Jersey. I'd like to return to the issue earlier about someone who's running <v Beth Bressen>for public office and um the public's right to know about that candidate <v Beth Bressen>versus their personal invasion of privacy, which is obviously different for someone <v Beth Bressen>running for public office versus a private citizen. <v Beth Bressen>Um, I think what it what it comes out to is, <v Beth Bressen>is does does whatever it is that they want to print, you know, that the student <v Beth Bressen>government presidential candidate having an affair with a teacher. <v Beth Bressen>Does it affect how well the officeholder will perform his or her position? <v Beth Bressen>And I think that that becomes a judgment call and the responsibility of the editor <v Beth Bressen>of the newspaper. I think that the final responsibility should rest with them. <v Beth Bressen>And if it doesn't affect how well the officeholder is going to perform, I don't see why <v Beth Bressen>it should make a difference. <v Joan Whitlow>I think the morality of a candidate comes to question. <v Joan Whitlow>You know, the Gary Hart matter, shortly before he was followed by the Miami <v Joan Whitlow>Herald, he he issued a challenge to the press, he said, if you've got doubts about me,

<v Joan Whitlow>come follow me around and see what I'm doing. <v Joan Whitlow>There were questions [laughter] there were some questions being raised about his <v Joan Whitlow>judgment and judgment, I think is is a matter of concern for a presidential candidate. <v Joan Whitlow>There had been questions ra-raised about his womanizing, and I guess the issue may <v Joan Whitlow>be if he was doing what he was doing however innocent it might have been, <v Joan Whitlow>given the appearances. <v Joan Whitlow>How all that came together, should he have exercised better judgment? <v Joan Whitlow>So I think there were real issues there. <v Joan Whitlow>Allan raised the question of should you then write about a student government candidate <v Joan Whitlow>sex life to say to follow all the candidate, list the slate of candidates around and <v Joan Whitlow>see what they're doing in the evening? Probably not. If you've got one candidate saying, <v Joan Whitlow>I want to establish morality and chastity, chastity on the campus. <v Joan Whitlow>And you find out that person's having affair that might have a direct bearing on on their <v Joan Whitlow>campaign. Sure. <v Beth Bressen>Yeah. I think that there are going to be times where the morality of the candidate can be <v Beth Bressen>called into question, where it does have a bearing on the campaign that might have <v Beth Bressen>that might or may not have been the case with Gary Hart.

<v Beth Bressen>Um in and at those times, I would support, you know, publish it. <v Beth Bressen>Sure. And if it does pertain to the campaign. <v Beth Bressen>But that, like I said before, is a judgment call and the responsibility of the editor. <v Allen Wolper>Was the press wrong in publishing all that material about Jimmy Swaggart? <v Allen Wolper>Hardly a candidate. <v Wilbert Tatum>The part of the judgement on Gary Hart that I question <v Wilbert Tatum>is the ultimate stupidity of a candidate <v Wilbert Tatum>saying, please follow me when he knew what he was doing. <v Wilbert Tatum>[laughter] That is that's my problem with his judgment. <v Joan Whitlow>And with the uh Jimmy Swaggart. <v Joan Whitlow>This was someone who had built a multi-million dollar public industry <v Joan Whitlow>on morality and goodness. <v Joan Whitlow>And um if it had been Larry Flynt or uh <v Joan Whitlow>Hugh Hefner, it, of course, would have had a different but because of who he was <v Joan Whitlow>and what he was doing, that's why it was a news story. <v Allen Wolper>Some questions in the back.

<v ILene Davison>Yes. My name is ILene Davison, I'm opinions editor of The Observer here at Rutgers, <v ILene Davison>Newark. My question centers around a comment by Joel Judas earlier <v ILene Davison>when he questioned the authority of Mr. Reynolds to censor <v ILene Davison>or edit anything because he had no journalistic experience. <v ILene Davison>Mr. Reynolds, I believe, has the right upheld by the Supreme Court <v ILene Davison>to have a say in what goes in the newspaper of his high <v ILene Davison>school simply because he does not have a degree in journalism. <v ILene Davison>I don't understand why that makes him less qualified to know what is appropriate to go <v ILene Davison>in a paper and what not to go in a paper. <v Allen Wolper>And in fact, and so very reasonably, having a degree in journalism was hardly a <v Allen Wolper>requirement. The First Amendment is supposed to belong to everybody. <v Reed Irvine>Well hey, I would certainly agree with that. <v Reed Irvine>I don't have a degree in journalism. I've been a media critic now for nearly 20 years and <v Reed Irvine>I never took a J-school. In fact, I'm not even sure J schools existed when I graduated

<v Reed Irvine>from college. Some of the greatest journalists that we've had in this country have never <v Reed Irvine>been to journalism school and uh one of them, for example, is Mark Twain. <v Reed Irvine>The J-school had not yet been invented at the time he went into journalism. <v Allen Wolper>At this point, we'll have to take a break. We'll be right back right after this. <v Allen Wolper>[applause] [music] <v Wilbert Tatum>I have lived a long time and I've reported all over the world <v Wilbert Tatum>and I read the coverage here in the United States and it is selective. <v Allen Wolper>Question.

<v Barbara Morsa>Ah, Yes. My name is Barbara Moras and I'm from Duri University. <v Barbara Morsa>I hate to give up the opportunity to comment on Mr. Reynolds' comments, but <v Barbara Morsa>I have a question prepared and I'd like to address it to anyone on <v Barbara Morsa>the panel who might be willing to comment or answer it. <v Barbara Morsa>Uh Last night on the Morton Downey Jr. <v Barbara Morsa>Show, um. <v Allen Wolper>I knew we were going to have to deal with it. <v Barbara Morsa>I had to bring him up. I'm sorry. A guest was quoted as saying that Jesse Jackson <v Barbara Morsa>has escaped media scrutiny simply because he's black <v Barbara Morsa>and that reporters are reluctant to dig up anything on his past <v Barbara Morsa>for fear of being labeled as racist. Um, in light of what's happened to Gary Hart, <v Barbara Morsa>I'm just wondering how the panel feels about this. <v Barbara Morsa>Um, not that Jesse Jackson is in particular singled out to be a target of <v Barbara Morsa>criticism. But is there any reaction to this? <v Wilbert Tatum>Absolutely. <v Wilbert Tatum>Jesse Jackson has been more scrutinized than any other presidential <v Wilbert Tatum>candidate in the history of America.

<v Wilbert Tatum>There have there has been so much written about him. <v Wilbert Tatum>There has been so much rumor and speculation. <v Wilbert Tatum>It is absolutely sickening sometime, if you get <v Wilbert Tatum>newspapers from all over the country, indeed all over the world, as I do, <v Wilbert Tatum>to have the pious press of the United States and <v Wilbert Tatum>those who control the press say that Jesse has not <v Wilbert Tatum>been scrutinized. It's a- it's it's crap. <v Reed Irvine>Well, let me- <v Wilbert Tatum>Pure and simple. He has been scrutinized, exercise, <v Wilbert Tatum>victimized and every other kind of thing that you can name. <v Joan Whitlow>I think early on he was he was pretty much ignored as a political candidate because it <v Joan Whitlow>didn't take him seriously. And if you look at the kinds of coverage, the coverage <v Joan Whitlow>that was given to him was focusing on what was wrong with Bush, but not as Jesse Jackson <v Joan Whitlow>as a serious political contender. Uh, when when that began to change, I saw one story <v Joan Whitlow>they were talking about his time schedule and the fact that he was always running behind

<v Joan Whitlow>time. And anybody who's covered, any candidate knows, no-none of them show up on time. <v Joan Whitlow>They never keep the schedule. <v Dianne Doctor>I think that when we send a reporter to cover Jesse Jackson, um, <v Dianne Doctor>the scripts that I've seen, the stories that we've put on are <v Dianne Doctor>similar to the coverage of the other candidates. <v Dianne Doctor>With Jesse Jackson, we have uh we have it, I think that generally <v Dianne Doctor>we in the media have an approach we cover him as a candidate and we cover him <v Dianne Doctor>as a black candidate. He has a separate category established for that. <v Dianne Doctor>And that's, I think, unfair and it's wrong. <v Dianne Doctor>But um in my coverage personally, I've tried <v Dianne Doctor>to judge him as I would judge any candidate for the office and <v Dianne Doctor>uh and cover his words to that extent. <v Dianne Doctor>Um, that's about it I guess. <v Allen Wolper>Question. <v Bernadette Scott>My question is in response to Mr. Tatum's previous statements about what does <v Bernadette Scott>not get covered. Take the recent New York primary, for example.

<v Bernadette Scott>I feel so much time was spent on the sexy story that <v Bernadette Scott>the voters didn't get a chance to hear the serious questions. <v Bernadette Scott>What I really want to know is, is there a conspiracy in the media not to cover these <v Bernadette Scott>stories because so often they tend to agree on what not to cover. <v Wilbert Tatum>I suspect that there is and I think it's unwritten. <v Wilbert Tatum>It's unwritten and we call it the gatekeepers. <v Wilbert Tatum>Very often you will see things in black newspapers that <v Wilbert Tatum>are not reported in the white press until they are seen <v Wilbert Tatum>observed, such as the Tawana Brawley case broken in black newspapers. <v Dianne Doctor>I don't think there's any kind of concern. <v Wilbert Tatum>I. Let me tell you. I have lived a long time and I've reported <v Wilbert Tatum>all over the world and I read the coverage here in the United States and <v Wilbert Tatum>it is selective and I-and it's selected by everybody. <v Wilbert Tatum>And let me tell you, if it's not a conspiracy, it's the damnedest accident I ever

<v Wilbert Tatum>saw. <v Dianne Doctor>I think in a lot of cases, the conspiracy is on the part of the candidates. <v Dianne Doctor>The three candidates for the Democratic nomination each <v Dianne Doctor>day or the day before give us their schedules, their photo opportunities where we can <v Dianne Doctor>talk to them. What access that we have to them. <v Dianne Doctor>They limit the access to the candidate. <v Dianne Doctor>In effect, they're generating their own method of projecting that candidate's <v Dianne Doctor>image on the public. I think to blame us is unfair. <v Dianne Doctor>I think you can say there is a kind of pack mentality about uh about <v Dianne Doctor>journalists and coverage of the candidates. <v Dianne Doctor>But at the same time, you have to look at the other side. <v Dianne Doctor>You have to look at the access that we have to the candidates and then wonder why <v Dianne Doctor>all the coverage seems similar to you. <v Wilbert Tatum>Well, since you mentioned pack mentality, I have to back off. <v Wilbert Tatum>Because that's precisely what it could be. <v Wilbert Tatum>But I suggest to you that it's much worse than that. <v Reed Irvine>A conspiracy suggests that the journalists are getting together and they're deciding, <v Reed Irvine>look, let's do this, let's not do that. That's ridiculous.

<v Reed Irvine>They don't. <v Wilbert Tatum>No, no, no. That is not what I said. <v Wilbert Tatum>Do you know, the gatekeeper is? <v Reed Irvine>Well she said conspiracy. <v Wilbert Tatum>A gatekeeper. <v Reed Irvine>She asked the question. I'm not taking to you-. <v Wilbert Tatum>Assignment editors. <v Dianne Doctor>If anything, there's competition between the various outlets to try <v Dianne Doctor>to get the story, to get more information about the candidates. <v Dianne Doctor>There's no conspiracy. I don't call up the editor at Channel 5 and say, hey, <v Dianne Doctor>let's all do the same story today [laughter] on Jesse Jackson. <v Allen Wolper>Let's just go to the audience. We have an audience just dying to talk here. <v Reed Irvine>There is a mentality. I just want to agree with my friend Bill here. <v Reed Irvine>There is a mentality. It does determine what the is. <v Reed Irvine>Only thing is that the things that I think that some of the things I focus on, what they <v Reed Irvine>don't cover are entirely different than what he's complaining about. <v Reed Irvine>I'd like to see him talk about the Dartmouth Review case. <v Reed Irvine>And he doesn't care much about that, you see. But uh but that's a part of the mentality <v Reed Irvine>of the journalists. <v Allen Wolper>And you're a gatekeeper too are you not? <v Reed Irvine>I'm a gatekeeper too. Yeah. <v Arthur Kinoy>I think we should hear some from the audience. <v Kate Warkentin>My name is. <v Kate Warkentin>[applause] Hi, my name is Kate Warkentin and I'm an assistant managing editor of Voorhies <v Kate Warkentin>High School's newspaper, The Viking View, and I would like to turn to the Hazelwood case.

<v Kate Warkentin>I read in a magazine article before the Supreme Co-Court made their decision. <v Kate Warkentin>Mr. Reynolds vetoed a proposed story on AIDS, telling the faculty advisor the <v Kate Warkentin>climate wasn't right. I think this shows that Hazelwood's students are not allowed to <v Kate Warkentin>write about controversial topics. <v Kate Warkentin>And could you comment on why you said the climate wasn't right? <v Robert Reynolds>I'm glad you brought that up. Did you say your name is Kay? <v Kate Warkentin>Yes. <v Robert Reynolds>I'm glad you brought that up, Kay. That was a misquote in the newspaper. <v Robert Reynolds>I never, ever, ever said that the kids at Hazelwood East High School could not <v Robert Reynolds>write or report on AIDS or anything else. <v Robert Reynolds>I had a very casual conversation with my newspaper advisor and her department <v Robert Reynolds>chair person in the cafeteria one day while I was supervising lunch. <v Robert Reynolds>And it was one of those days that a lot of things were going wrong. <v Robert Reynolds>Fights. <v Robert Reynolds>um-. <v Kate Warkentin>Did they propose the story though? <v Robert Reynolds>Parents and so on. Let me finish. <v Robert Reynolds>And so I said, boy, this is one of those days. <v Robert Reynolds>I sure don't need any more problems. <v Robert Reynolds>And then we start talking about the kinds of coverages and stories.

<v Robert Reynolds>And I said, well, today would not be a good day for an AIDS article for me, only because <v Robert Reynolds>it just be one more problem that I would have to handle. <v Robert Reynolds>Now, when that came out was on January the 13th or 14th when we had a lot of reporters <v Robert Reynolds>around school. And that question came up from one of the reporters and they said, <v Robert Reynolds>has Dr. Reynolds ever prevented or killed any kind of story <v Robert Reynolds>from being written. <v Robert Reynolds>I don't know why she said it. She said, well, one day he jokingly said <v Robert Reynolds>that he wasn't ready for an AIDS article. <v Robert Reynolds>Well, the jokingly was left out. The casual conversation was left out. <v Robert Reynolds>I was misquoted in the newspaper. <v Robert Reynolds>And I've had that hung around my neck, and I've had to wear it ever since. <v Robert Reynolds>And I want to say here publicly, I never, ever said that they could not write on AIDS. <v Kate Warkentin>Have they written on AIDS? <v Robert Reynolds>I'm ready to write the story for him right now. <v Robert Reynolds>If they need it. If it would just solve it. <v Kate Warkentin>Have they written about AIDS yet? <v Allen Wolper>Question. <v Kate Warkentin>Have they written about AIDS in those paper? <v Robert Reynolds>No, they haven't. But it's not because they can't. <v Mark Goodman>You know, I think just points out a real interesting point, Allan, on the day the Supreme <v Mark Goodman>Court's decision was handed down, the current editor of the Hazelwood High School

<v Mark Goodman>newspaper was interviewed by by Television N-News and was on national news. <v Mark Goodman>She asked how she was asked how she thought this decision was going to affect her, <v Mark Goodman>their publication. And she said she didn't think it was going to have very much effect at <v Mark Goodman>all because they don't really cover controversial issues anymore, she says. <v Mark Goodman>Exactly the kind of situation that I think, you know, we're fearing will happen in a lot <v Mark Goodman>of schools. <v Allen Wolper>A lot of questions. <v Patricia Soto>Hello, my name is Patricia Soto and I'm presently the president of the Student Governing <v Patricia Soto>Association here at Rutgers, Newark. <v Patricia Soto>And my question is regarding victims and specifically the homosexual population here <v Patricia Soto>at Rutgers. Uh, The Observer, which is the school newspaper recently printed a letter <v Patricia Soto>from the heteros against homosexuals. <v Patricia Soto>And my re- my question is, does the editor have the sole responsibility <v Patricia Soto>or the sole right to print letters that are specifically targeting groups <v Patricia Soto>that will evoke fear, hate and disturbances amongst the uh student <v Patricia Soto>population? And as an elected official who has responsibility looking <v Patricia Soto>after all the issues or situations dealing with the student

<v Patricia Soto>population, what is my responsibility and how far do I go to prevent any kind <v Patricia Soto>of targeting to any specific group? <v Arthur Kinoy>Can I respond to that just for a moment? <v Allen Wolper>Sure. <v Arthur Kinoy>Yes. You have a deep responsibility. You have a responsibility first to write answers, <v Arthur Kinoy>letters opposing that letter. <v Arthur Kinoy>Secondly, you have a responsibility as representing the student body to organize <v Arthur Kinoy>public meetings in this school, which you're going to discuss precisely <v Arthur Kinoy>that type of danger. <v Arthur Kinoy>You've got to meet head on any dangerous ideas that are put forward. <v Arthur Kinoy>You meet in controversy. <v Arthur Kinoy>You meet it in struggle and then debate. <v Richard Eittreim>Allan, if I may. The answer is that you do have that right and you need to exercise it as <v Richard Eittreim>Professor Carnoy said. It's your job to get involved, to make decisions, and it's a big <v Richard Eittreim>responsibility and difficult one, and you need to look for all the guidance you <v Richard Eittreim>can get from others. <v Allen Wolper>She saying whther does she have the right to actually go in with a pencil and grab the <v Allen Wolper>copy away?

<v Mark Goodman>Let me point out. <v Richard Eittreim>According to the editor, she does. <v Mark Goodman>The courts that have dealt with these kind of cases involving student government <v Mark Goodman>officials has said they like their school administrators, are limited by the First <v Mark Goodman>Amendment and cannot censor the editors of a college or university publication. <v Mark Goodman>So really, the editor legally has the right. <v Mark Goodman>You know, I think it would be interesting to ask yourself, how would you feel if this <v Mark Goodman>same letter had come for an organization that was, for example, you know, <v Mark Goodman>whatever people against the Klu Klux Klan, a viewpoint that is certainly <v Mark Goodman>very, very different, but nevertheless is one that may be advocating <v Mark Goodman>violence against a group like the KKK. <v Mark Goodman>The notion is that if you get in yourself in the process of restricting what viewpoints <v Mark Goodman>can be expressed on the basis of what you think is offensive and what isn't, <v Mark Goodman>everybody's going to lose in the long run as part of that process,. <v Patricia Soto>Well, getting back to what. <v Allen Wolper>I think we can't have a long debate on this. <v Patricia Soto>I'm not but earlier was stated that. <v Allen Wolper>We're just about we're just about coming to the end with one more questions. <v Patricia Soto>You can't print an article or anything in the newspaper that sorts <v Patricia Soto>of that raises any kind of violence.

<v Patricia Soto>And if something invokes a lot of feel-fears amongst a minority group of fear <v Patricia Soto>and hate. I think that that also should be censored. <v Patricia Soto>Thank you. <v Handel Lowe>Um, my name is Handel Lowe. I come from Parsippany High School. <v Handel Lowe>And my question is a little bit off track, but it's but it relates to what we're talking <v Handel Lowe>about. So here it is. Um, keeping in mind the publicly question ethics, <v Handel Lowe>morals and honesty of politicians and the press. <v Handel Lowe>Which group do you think is a more reliable information source, the press or the <v Handel Lowe>government? <v Nancy Lucianna>I wouldn't trust either one of them separately, but together I think it works very <v Nancy Lucianna>well. I think the press sparks controversy. <v Nancy Lucianna>It opens up the marketplace of ideas. <v Nancy Lucianna>And I think it adds very, very much to society. <v Nancy Lucianna>So to answer the question, there is an interdependent relationship <v Nancy Lucianna>both together make each other reliable. <v Allen Wolper>I'm sorry to say it's time for this debate is over.

<v Allen Wolper>I want to thank the panelists and the audience for sharing their expertise, their energy. <v Allen Wolper>I also want to point out for the first time in New Jersey history a cable operation, <v Allen Wolper>Suburban Cable, has co-produced a television show with New Jersey Network, <v Allen Wolper>a First Amendment First. I'm Allan Wolper. <v Allen Wolper>Thanks for joining us.