St. Louis Skyline; No. 805

<v Announcer>St. Louis skyline, supported in part by the Missouri Arts Council, <v Announcer>a state agency by the Regional Arts Commission. <v Announcer>And by the Camelot Special Projects Fund of the Arts and Education Council of Greater St. <v Announcer>Louis. And now here is your host, Anne-Marie Skinner. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Hello, welcome to St.Louis Skyline. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>His music may be called minimalist, but his impact on music has been anything but <v Anne-Marie Skinner>minimal. Tonight, you'll meet composer Philip Glass and hear about his latest <v Anne-Marie Skinner>collaboration. We'll also see a little of dancer Suzanne Grace's latest collaborative <v Anne-Marie Skinner>work. And I'd like to introduce my co-host for tonight's show, Beej Nierengarten-Smith, <v Anne-Marie Skinner>executive director of Laumeier Sculpture Park. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Beej, you and I will have a chance to talk a little bit later in the show. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>But why don't you tell us what's what else is coming up tonight? <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Well Anne, we're about to meet two sculptors who share a love for each other, <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>as well as for the sculptures they create. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Gail Soliwoda-Cassilly makes fine and delicate pieces while her husband, <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Robert Cassilly, creates large beasts and architectural ornament. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>No matter the size or nature of the work, much time, introspection and

<v Beej Niergarten-Smith>physical exertion goes into the making. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>Every time I see somebody move in a different way or every time I complete one <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>figurative work, it just leads me on to have to be inspired to do something else. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>I've tried even consciously to to to go off in different directions at time. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>And it's inevitably a figure starts to appear. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>And so I don't fight it anymore.

<v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>I just I just really enjoy that. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>I was always the one who got to do bulletin boards and had the classroom art projects and <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>things like that. And I just I took it for granted. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>You know, everybody seemed to think I could do it well. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>And so I did it. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Her work captures the passion and spirit of the human form. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>His work captures the imagination. <v Robert Cassily>Tried to revert to childhood when I conceived my thesis, my most formative time was when <v Robert Cassily>I was 12 years old, I was sitting on the porch of our house. <v Robert Cassily>I had this miniature scene built. <v Robert Cassily>And there was I was listening to the adults talk. <v Robert Cassily>I dreamed I looked up and said, this could be so sad when I had to grow up and be an <v Robert Cassily>adult. I can't play in this dirt. <v Robert Cassily>And probably I worked it out that way that I can play in the dirt the rest of my life. <v Robert Cassily>I like to use a water, a lot, water's fun, water makes pieces less serious

<v Robert Cassily>and allows you to be more childlike and playful. <v Robert Cassily>But I'm most flattered when a 10 year old likes my work. <v Robert Cassily>I do find the most rewarding audience. <v Robert Cassily>I like to make them, you know, everybody like it or at least appealed <v Robert Cassily>to everyone on different levels. <v Robert Cassily>And I think the more levels that work appears on the matter, the better it is. <v Robert Cassily>Hippopotamus at the zoo and I over there, I see like 20 kids in line to go climb through <v Robert Cassily>it. And that makes me happy. I mean, we've got a two year old son, and that makes <v Robert Cassily>you. I was making a play house and end up at the zoo <v Robert Cassily>and actually all my work has revolved around my son since he's been born. <v Robert Cassily>You know, I've been making these big clay animals. <v Robert Cassily>Max was my inspiration because he's enthusiastic and spontaneous and he likes all <v Robert Cassily>the neat things in life, like, you know, bugs and insects and food. <v Robert Cassily>And, you know, so we got like. <v Robert Cassily>And, you know, it's like a return to your roots.

<v Robert Cassily>You know what's really important? <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>I just find that when Max came along, suddenly children came into the picture <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>and my work a lot more than they had before. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>Suddenly there were fathers and with children and mothers with children more than <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>there had been before. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>And I felt much more comfortable working with a child's figure, having had <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>such, you know, having my real hands on experience with him all the time. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Mary Brunstrom is the owner of Ostro Gallery, where the Cassillys recently <v Anne-Marie Skinner>had a show and Bob's mythical creatures are still on display

<v Mary Brunstrom>I think I was probably really directly influenced with this type of image for my <v Mary Brunstrom>three years in Africa where every woman you saw walking down the road had <v Mary Brunstrom>a pile of something on her head, fruit or wood or heaven knows what. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Where were you teaching in Africa? <v Mary Brunstrom>I was teaching in Malawi. <v Mary Brunstrom>Teaching was teaching art at a girls school. <v Mary Brunstrom>And some things just keep creeping back into my work and keep a lot of people say <v Mary Brunstrom>they see African influences. And again, it's not really conscious on my <v Mary Brunstrom>part, but I always influence enough to have it just come out <v Mary Brunstrom>automatically from time to time. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Several years ago, Bob and Gail started an architectural ornamentation business <v Anne-Marie Skinner>called Cassilly and Cassilly. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>The business has been quite successful, resulting in a full time staff and simultaneous <v Anne-Marie Skinner>projects beside finishing work for the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation <v Anne-Marie Skinner>and designing new sidewalk borders for Forest Park Parkway.

<v Anne-Marie Skinner>The Cassillys are working on a giant squid for the zoo. <v Robert Cassily>But this is a giant squid. We're making for the St. Louis Zoo. <v Robert Cassily>It'll be 42 feet long when we're done. <v Robert Cassily>Basically, how we how we made this thing was like we made like a surfboard. <v Robert Cassily>We started with a steel armature. <v Robert Cassily>And then we use urethane foam like you spray in the attic. <v Robert Cassily>And we spread the whole thing with your thing foam. <v Robert Cassily>And then we got with chisels and files and carved this squid. <v Robert Cassily>When that was finished we sanded it down down and then covered the whole thing <v Robert Cassily>with fiberglass. So when it's finished it'll look like it's swimming in the ocean. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>I'm the finisher in the family, I uh Bob usually <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>completes something at the ninety five percent mark and I'm usually pretty <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>happy to take up at that point you know finish something off. <v Robert Cassily>Really, the best thing about our relationship is she'd made me like 10 times as

<v Robert Cassily>productive because I could start something, but I can't finish almost anything and she <v Robert Cassily>finishes all our projects. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>It's true. He's got incredible energy for starting things. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>Just momentus, you know, a huge, colossal things. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>He'll begin with great gusto. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>I mean, things I could never imagine starting. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>But then he just you know, after that initial enthusiasm and energy, he gets tired of it. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>He wants to go to the next big thing. <v Robert Cassily>She's sort of quality control for the two of us. <v Robert Cassily>She tells me that I'm getting off the deep end. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>I think I'm probably most satisfied with my work when I've just begun a project, <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>because it's um I'm excited about it and I have a direction and I haven't <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>ruined it yet. And there's just endless potential for what it can become. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>As in somewhere around the middle market, I usually can't stand <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>it because I think that I'm ruining it and taking away the freshness that <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>I start out with. And then by the end, it's it's I've reached some sort of resolution

<v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>which has made me somewhat happy, somewhat disappointed. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>I don't think my work needs a story like some people's work <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>does. I think it's I think what you see is what it is. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>We really work very harmoniously and there's very little competition. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>We don't really have many conflicts. <v Gail Soliwoda Cassily>I think we are able to help each other fairly well. <v Robert Cassily>I think we know when they get out of the way. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Every nook and cranny in the Cassillys' many studios hosts an abundance <v Anne-Marie Skinner>of promising half finished works piled up next to completed pieces. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>And like Adam and Eve in the garden, one is tempted to see even more. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>What a diversity of work. It's amazing that a couple can find so much support in <v Anne-Marie Skinner>St. Louis to be able to do that kind of work.

<v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Well, I think that's one of the highlights of being in the arts community in St. Louis. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Consider that both Gail and Bob work not only for institutions, but for themselves, <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>and that they found a gallery to represent their work, which is another layer of support <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>that the community can offer. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>It's not just the galleries. I mean, they have broad based support. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>The zoo, obviously, my children have climbed in that hippo many times. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Exactly. And I think that, you know, you'll find that as their careers develop, they'll <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>find other outlets in the community to use them as a resource. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Well, those are they have a wide diversity of styles of sculpture. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>But at Laumeier, there is currently a very, very different style of sculpture. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Can you tell us about that exhibit? <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>The Magdalena Abakanowicz exhibit now and the Laumeier Gallery is <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>a dramatically different and very serious gallery exhibit reflecting <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>the work and thoughts of a woman who grew up in Poland during the Second World War. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>We're exhibiting her work in conjunction with another contemporary Polish <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>artist who is working on site creating a side sculpture.

<v Beej Niergarten-Smith>His name is Ursula von Rydingsvard. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>So we have the opportunity to show someone who is well established in the field <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>of contemporary art from Poland as well as a new American Polish artist. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Well, without further ado, let us see now a little bit of the Abakanowicz exhibit at <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Laumeier. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Beej, anything else you'd like to tell us about that exhibit?

<v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Well, Magdalena's work, as you can see, shows bodies <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>in various states of emotional anxiety. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>It's a good exhibit to do some serious study with because it deals not only with the <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>figure in contemporary art, but also with concepts of negative and positive spaces <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>and with a very strong, powerful theme. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>As interpreted by a female artist who has not had an easy life, <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>who led a very difficult existence, becoming an artist as well <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>as an internationally known artist. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>I would suggest that the viewer spend a lot of time just sort of empathizing <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>with what it probably is like to be in that kind of situation between exhibits <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>like this that are coming into St. Louis and the work of sculptures like the Cassillys'. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>It seems that sculpture is really coming alive in St. Louis. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Is that your perception? <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Well, I think I'm proud to say that it certainly is. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>There is currently a wonderful show by Louise Bourgeois at <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Steinberg. And certainly Rebecca Horne, who is a fantastic German artist,

<v Beej Niergarten-Smith>is being represented currently at the San Luis Art Museum. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>So all of the institutions and organizations that do contemporary work seem <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>to have really brought to the fore this notion of sculpture and work in the third <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>dimension. And we're we're delighted. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Is that something that is typical of St. Louis? <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Is this going on nationally or it is St. Louis discovering something about sculpture, <v Anne-Marie Skinner>perhaps because of Laumeier? <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>I think St. Louis is really beginning to take a leadership role in contemporary <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>sculpture. Lamar is producing a book currently on sculpture in St. Louis <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>called A St. Louis Sculpture. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>And it will be available in December and it will further highlight the notion <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>of the leadership role taken by St. Louis. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>When we were talking earlier, you said you thought St. Louis was doing very well in the <v Anne-Marie Skinner>sculptural scene, but we still had a long way to go. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>And I just need to find out. What did you mean by that? <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Well, I. I don't mean that in a negative sense. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>I think we're at an edge. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Laumeier, particularly with 96 acres available for contemporary sculpture <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>and having a full gallery program, is now moving into the realm of publications

<v Beej Niergarten-Smith>and is moving into education. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>And I think the need has been established for this kind of contemporary <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>reference. So what we'd like to see now is a transition moving <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>into larger quarters, more support for the arts in general. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>I think what I really would like to see is just this general development <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>of organizations that once were small into something <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>permanent and established. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>That's something that's, I think, different about Laumeier. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>When you began many years ago, it was really the new thing to do. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>It was a very new place, very experimental. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>You have just described something that sounds magnificent to almost institutional. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Does that change the nature of what you do? <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Yes, it does. And the point is well taken because we want to hold on to the <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>fresh, sort of innovative look that's come through the institution. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>On the other hand, there are so many areas that need work and <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>so many service areas that have been developed that we have to find a kind of balance

<v Beej Niergarten-Smith>between both of service areas and our own unique approach to contemporary art. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>And we'll do it. We'll make sure that we do it. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>And you're famous for modern and contemporary sculpture as time moves on. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>How do you keep being contemporary? <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>I think you continue to study those new and revolutionary things that are available in <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>the discipline. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>That question about the Museum of Modern Art becoming no longer a modern <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>museum, but becoming a history museum is one that we must address. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>And we have to make sure that we're always there looking for the most unusual <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>and yet the most valid in contemporary art. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>And at the same time, give a healthy dose of respect to those great achievers who have <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>gone on before. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>And Laumeier still just about my favorite place to go. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>My son calls it the Gelcher Park. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>Well thank you it's my favorite place. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Good, good. Well, now here is another preview of the latest work from an artist who <v Anne-Marie Skinner>dances with sculpture, with poets, with choirs, and sometimes with other dancers. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>This time, Suzanne Grace of Burning Feet, Inc.

<v Anne-Marie Skinner>has collaborated with video artist Kathy Corley and Carlos Pinero, musician <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Carl Weingarten and dancers Laura Burkhart and Patti Myers. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Here's an excerpt from The Point Is. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Talk about Laumeier at the cutting edge.

<v Anne-Marie Skinner>Suzanne is always at the cutting edge of dance. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>She is. And this piece, particularly gives evidence about a <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>woman who's accomplished a great deal grabbing on to the new and the contemporary and <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>making it visible yet using her body as sculpture. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>So it's a primary example of integrating the arts. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Be a good chance to see it at Khoka. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Well, speaking of collaborations, the most fascinating one is coming this weekend to <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Eddison Theater. 1000 Airplanes on the Roof is the intriguing title for a new <v Anne-Marie Skinner>work by composer Philip Glass. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Playwright David Henry Hwang, winner of the 1988 Tony for Best Play with his M. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Butterfly and Jerome Saleen, stage and scene designer of Everything From Visionary, <v Anne-Marie Skinner>an opera to Madonna's 1987 World Tour. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>While tickets for 1000 Airplanes have been sold out for some time now, we did have an <v Anne-Marie Skinner>opportunity to speak to Philip Glass. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Just last week about this and other work. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Here's Post-Dispatch music critic Jim Where's Bickie in conversation with composer and <v Anne-Marie Skinner>collaborator Philip Glass backstage at Washington University's Citizen Theater. <v Philip Glass>It's certainly a piece of music theater, but the performer never sings.

<v Philip Glass>It's a spoken opera. <v Jim Wierzbicki>A classic melodrama. <v Philip Glass>Now we know what it is. It's a spoken opera. And you're right. <v Philip Glass>It comes from the from the tradition of melodrama. <v Jim Wierzbicki>Last year in Paris, it was an opera by an American composer, Tod Makeover, a setting of <v Jim Wierzbicki>a science fiction novel by Philip Dick. <v Jim Wierzbicki>And the opera's called VALIS. It's about an encounter as a earthling with <v Jim Wierzbicki>some alien creatures. <v Jim Wierzbicki>Is this a trend? <v Philip Glass>In the course of presenting A Thousand Airplanes. I so far met two abductees who have <v Philip Glass>come to the show. That means people who have actually believe they've been taken onto <v Philip Glass>space ships I met two so far. <v Philip Glass>This is very much, people say, in the air. <v Philip Glass>And now I guess David has an interesting point of view about this. <v Philip Glass>David thinks that there have always been a kind of paranormal experience. <v Philip Glass>We describe them today in terms of visitors. He says, well, maybe fairies and genies and <v Philip Glass>demons and ghosts. He said maybe this has been going on for a thousand years, but every <v Philip Glass>generation finds its own language to describe it. <v Philip Glass>Certainly, people are bumping into something in the dark and we don't know what it is,

<v Philip Glass>but I don't know that we need to be more precise than <v Philip Glass>that. But we're talking about experiences that a large body of people are reporting. <v Philip Glass>What about you? Have you ever bumped into something that we made this up? <v Philip Glass>I have to put the story, on the other hand. <v Philip Glass>Within our team of people, two of the three of us have had visual <v Philip Glass>sightings of things. But what if I don't tell you <v Philip Glass>but that you see there? Again, this is precisely what the story is about. <v Philip Glass>People are unwilling to talk about it. <v Philip Glass>I'm unwilling to even tell you. <v Philip Glass>So that what happens to our character and this leads us to what the pieces about <v Philip Glass>the person has memories of encounters. <v Philip Glass>And finally, we even stage one on the stage and then they sit. <v Philip Glass>And so, my gosh, if I tell people about this, they'll think I'm crazy. <v Philip Glass>But if I don't tell them, that's even crazier. <v Philip Glass>So then they're caught in this terrible dilemma. <v Philip Glass>And what they do is the only thing that they can do is they begin to forget. <v Philip Glass>And the piece finally becomes about forgetting and memory and what we can bear

<v Philip Glass>to acknowledge about our own experiences. <v Philip Glass>?Barry Sun? who's a who does a visual design, he actually people think it's holograms. <v Philip Glass>Actually, what it is, is projected slides on a series of screens that <v Philip Glass>are three dimensional. We put our actor in those screens. <v Philip Glass>And you know what it's like? It's like looking at a movie. <v Philip Glass>You know, the scenes changes like a movie change we have dissolves and cuts. <v Philip Glass>We go from one street to a farm to a city to an inside of a building. <v Philip Glass>You see that happening except in the middle of it, a live actress. <v Philip Glass>People used to say is that, oh, the public doesn't like my music now. <v Philip Glass>But future generations will. And I begin to think, oh, why are the people who aren't born <v Philip Glass>yet better than the people that are right here? <v Philip Glass>Is there a difference? <v Jim Wierzbicki>Then you wouldn't be around to enjoy it anyway. <v Philip Glass>I'd rather write for the people I know than the people I don't know. <v Philip Glass>It seems obvious to me. And what happened? <v Philip Glass>We had a real return to the idea of public music. <v Jim Wierzbicki>Any speculation as to why this music is catching on with the American and European public

<v Jim Wierzbicki>in the late 1980s? <v Philip Glass>My generation and composers looked around at the people before us and decided we weren't <v Philip Glass>willing to write music for 200 people, 300 people that we were interested in entering <v Philip Glass>again into that historic dialog between artists and the public, <v Philip Glass>which has to do with how to hold onto your idealism about your work <v Philip Glass>and at the same time find the broadest public you can find. <v Philip Glass>This is the dialog that Mozart was involved in Beethoven Bognor. <v Philip Glass>It's a traditional, but Moylan's was dropped in the middle of the 20th century when <v Philip Glass>it was not fashionable to talk about the public or even to talk about people liking your <v Philip Glass>music. The idea was that art existed in some abstract place where it never <v Philip Glass>had to impact on the public. <v Philip Glass>And what happened is that we had several generations of, if not more composers who simply <v Philip Glass>never had a public. <v Philip Glass>My. So we're not going to do that. <v Philip Glass>And we began addressing ourselves to performances for a wide audience. <v Philip Glass>And what's happening is the result is that people are back in the concert halls to hear

<v Philip Glass>new music that they never would have heard before and never would have gone to before. <v Performer>My skin like a coat. <v Performer>I stared at my face and a stranger stared back. <v Performer>A stranger. <v Performer>Smiling. <v Philip Glass>You know, for a lot of the middle of the 20th century, people thought of modern <v Philip Glass>music as the kind of music that they just didn't want to hear. <v Philip Glass>It was very abstract. It was they could hear melodies that jumped all over the place. <v Philip Glass>I couldn't hear rhythms. And it was, you know, they said, gee, that's an era. <v Philip Glass>I don't want to hear that. And a lot of. <v Philip Glass>And then the public was driven all of the concert halls and opera <v Philip Glass>houses and people said, well, they'll come back later. <v Philip Glass>Well, they never came back, at least not to hear that. <v Philip Glass>Now, this music was very abstract and a bunch of composers came

<v Philip Glass>along and said, look, we see what happens when you do that. <v Philip Glass>And what they really wanted to do was that we put back metal melodies and some of <v Philip Glass>it was a little rough, repetitive, which I've been accused of, a rhythm that pieces that <v Philip Glass>have a rhythmic drive to it. <v Philip Glass>And people said, oh, that sounds like popular music, has got beat, has a beat in it <v Philip Glass>again. And people like John or myself or anything, it was they put the beat back in the <v Philip Glass>music and put the melody back in the music, and they put that kind of harmony that maybe <v Philip Glass>you can't really pick it out on the piano so easily. <v Philip Glass>But people thought that they could. <v Jim Wierzbicki>One of the things that troubles me about repetitive <v Jim Wierzbicki>tonal music in general is that it's so easy to <v Jim Wierzbicki>imitate. Now, I know that you spend a great deal of time working on your scores and your <v Jim Wierzbicki>music is, in fact more complicated than it might seem. <v Jim Wierzbicki>But it's very, very easy to to do a knock off of that. <v Jim Wierzbicki>Does it trouble you? <v Philip Glass>Well, it troubles me when I hear commercials that use what we call sound alikes. <v Philip Glass>You know, it's hard to when you say, well, how can I tell you ahead of time how you'll

<v Philip Glass>know my music from somebody else's? Now, one of the great mysteries of music is you can <v Philip Glass>teach somebody all the rules and they can write a piece of music, but somehow their <v Philip Glass>personality isn't there. It's like somehow the thumbprint isn't in there. <v Philip Glass>And you might use the question where one does a personally creepin where <v Philip Glass>when all the rules and all the notes. Where does the personality go? <v Philip Glass>And we don't know. It's one of those great mysteries. <v Philip Glass>One of the funny things that's happened is that this music was 20 years ago was so <v Philip Glass>unusual. It's now all over the place. <v Philip Glass>And when I ask people, I'll give you an example. <v Philip Glass>Someone says someone said recently to a friend of mine <v Philip Glass>was that music sounds like Philip Glass. <v Philip Glass>He said, Oh, everybody sounds like Philip Glass. [laughter] <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Well, even though 1000 Airplanes is sold out for this Sunday, if you would like to hear <v Anne-Marie Skinner>some great music, the St. Louis Jazz Festival is taking place this Sunday, October 16th, <v Anne-Marie Skinner>from one to six p.m. in the amphitheater at Keehner Plaza.

<v Anne-Marie Skinner>And as Beej said, art is alive in St. Louis. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>And that is the theme of the midday cultural program sponsored by the Atrium Gallery <v Anne-Marie Skinner>beginning on October 18th, lunch at noon. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>And reservations are required and next week Skyline will be preempted. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>But we will be back on October 24th to celebrate United Nation's Day <v Anne-Marie Skinner>with a special exhibit which brings together the art of U.S. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>and Soviet children. We'll also take a different approach to politics and the upcoming <v Anne-Marie Skinner>election with playwright Joan Lipkin. <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>And we'll look at a most unusual exhibit of quilts that were created definitely <v Beej Niergarten-Smith>not to cover the bed, but to hang on the wall as art. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>And Nicholas Cria will also join us to discuss what goes into making successful <v Anne-Marie Skinner>children's theater. Please join me and Beej who'll be back with us October 24th <v Anne-Marie Skinner>for St. Louis Skyline. I'm Ann Marie Skinnerd. <v Anne-Marie Skinner>Thank you for watching and good night. <v Announcer>St. Louis skyline is supported in part by the Missouri Arts Council, a state

<v Announcer>agency by the Regional Arts Commission and by the Camelot's <v Announcer>Special Projects Fund of the Arts and Education Council of Greater St. Louis. <v Speaker>Defense now Joe Wright shot wouldn't go and Turchin comes <v Speaker>out of there, Turchin down the counter, stops and pops it in. <v Speaker>It's all Kansas. Their defense has turned it totally around. <v Speaker>Turchin got one in the eye. Pause for a moment.

<v Speaker>Turgeon got hit in the face over there talking with the official what he may feel to call <v Speaker>time, but he got hit right on the bridge of the nose. <v Speaker>And Turgeon going to the bench. <v Speaker>Take a look at his play a moment ago. <v Speaker>This was the transition game at Kansas, has done a great job led by this man, Hunter, <v Speaker>Gold Coast to Coast. <v Speaker>Now, here's the dish off and we take a look right here. <v Speaker>Yep. <v Speaker>That's one too many. <v Speaker>It sure was. That was Calvin Thompson. <v Speaker>I'm not picking on anybody who fits with the husband either. <v Speaker>I got to work four million years sitting here, Jay. They're easy from here. <v Speaker>Well, you were one of the very best. <v Speaker>Believe me, the defensive Kansas has been <v Speaker>sensational. Number 22, Sarah Connor has put on a show for <v Speaker>11 minutes in the second half. Joe Wright has touched the ball three times.

<v Speaker>He's gotten one shot off a bad shot. <v Speaker>Doros Coleman forcing the shot won't go for him <v Speaker>Rebound Thompson of Kansas Out to Hunter Hunter down the Kellogg <v Speaker>Kellogg wants to put it up for a foul. <v Speaker>Jack Hartman says up, but did not coach the last <v Speaker>15 games of last year. There is Oklahoma Duke having a good win <v Speaker>in the second half. <v Speaker>Mike Kruszewski, nobody can pronounce his name. <v Speaker>He might be number one since North Carolina got beat. <v Speaker>Going to the line. <v Speaker>Kellogg shoots to Kellogg as <v Speaker>22 points this afternoon. <v Speaker>Twenty three nine oh seven to play J. <v Speaker>He knows all the tricks. The only thing he needs to be really good in the NBA is to <v Speaker>handle the ball a little better as a second guard.

<v Speaker>He can cover and obviously he can shoot it. <v Speaker>Thirteen point lead now for the Jayhawks with nine minutes to play. <v Speaker>Time to go inside. Kelly, a good job. <v Speaker>There it is. Foul on Kelly. <v Speaker>My guest stars Coleman. <v Speaker>Coleman laid the ball on Kellogg's head and he didn't like that. <v Speaker>Let's take a look at that. Go down in the box. <v Speaker>This is really important because you had scored the last 10 points. <v Speaker>That guy gets up and gone. College is much smaller than Manning. <v Speaker>There it is, the calm and he gets hammered. <v Speaker>Watch now puts the ball right on his forehead. <v Speaker>Norris Pohlmann at the free throw line. <v Speaker>Foreman was 17 points back. <v Speaker>It 18. <v Speaker>And that finally breaks out 10 points to a string, a little run. <v Speaker>You had Jack Hartman thought his ballot playing in the tournament <v Speaker>in Topeka last April

<v Speaker>64. <v Speaker>Fifty three. <v Speaker>Kansas, 850 to play. <v Speaker>Dreiling takes a little temper and gets it down, lot gaps in that zone right <v Speaker>now. If you flash with the big seven one dreiling, you're going to be able to find him. <v Speaker>Thirteen point lead for Kansas <v Speaker>Coleman. And when you go down, Boy Hunter comes out <v Speaker>of there for Kansas. <v Speaker>Kansas slowing it down a bit on offense with a 13 <v Speaker>point advantage. They led by 14 early in the game. <v Speaker>Biggest lead for Kansas State with five as they came back from that <v Speaker>14 point deficit to lead at halftime. <v Speaker>Thirty four. Thirty three, Larry, using the clock a little bit and they're making him <v Speaker>extend.

<v Speaker>That means somebody is open at the free throw line. <v Speaker>Kellogg <v Speaker>back at the other end. It's been all common. <v Speaker>Twelve of 19, that's it didn't good enough. <v Speaker>Right. Has not been able to get the basketball biggest lead of the game for Kansas. <v Speaker>That one goes down. <v Speaker>Put my hands up. Ben Mitchell, 68, 55. <v Speaker>Kansas with seven. Twenty five to go. <v Speaker>And as long as Jack Harmon stays in the zone, Larry will milk the clock. <v Speaker>He'll use it down to about the eight second mark. <v Speaker>Kellogg has the high score in the game with twenty six. <v Speaker>This is where it's a great <v Speaker>advantage. Having coached in the NBA, Larry Brown understands the clock. <v Speaker>Most college coaches are working with it really for the first time. <v Speaker>Last year, Dreiling tried that, batted in underneath. <v Speaker>That's Archie Marshall, who is in the game now for Kansas.

<v Speaker>And we're gonna get a timeout with six fifty seven. <v Speaker>Love to play in this one. <v Speaker>We'll be right back after this word. <v Speaker>Budweiser. <v Speaker>Carlos, I need one hundred of these by frame by frame. <v Speaker>My son is running. <v Speaker>Here's to you, reach an age for that clean, crisp page that says Budweiser. <v Speaker>Grips, gloves, fit the natural curve of your hand, and the leather construction is made <v Speaker>for rough work in February. Get well as the light drips gloves for just six forty nine a

<v Speaker>pair while supplies last. Look for the hardware value of the month. <v Speaker>Better at participating in true value hardware stores and homes in. <v Speaker>Along with her brown Jay Randolph reminding you of the 11th annual Women's Big, a <v Speaker>tournament will be held March six and eight, the Temple Arena in Kansas City. <v Speaker>Tickets available at Kamper. Don't miss the fun and excitement of the Big Eight women's <v Speaker>basketball tournament today here preceding this action in the women's game. <v Speaker>Kansas defeated Kansas State eighty one to seventy. <v Speaker>Jack Hartman, the remarkable junior college record at Coffeyville, <v Speaker>Kansas, and then a bar. <v Speaker>He had a great year that outside your Carbondale and his sixty seven Salukis <v Speaker>won the NIIT when a fellow named Walt Frazier took more story about him <v Speaker>down at the sun kind of DOT has contributed and won the national championship of Texas <v Speaker>residents. Brown left that let me clown around a little bit tonight.

<v Speaker>They're going to take some pictures giving him a break. <v Speaker>You came out. His first six has since called Timebombs his brown. <v Speaker>Whatever I tell you now is definitely on the level for real. <v Speaker>Hurling banks at end. <v Speaker>Fifteen point lead for Kansas, seven to fifty five. <v Speaker>Dreiling now has a total of nine. <v Speaker>Kansas has just shot lights out, Jay. <v Speaker>Seventy five percent in this half. <v Speaker>Well, and the second best field goal shooting team in America. <v Speaker>Only North Carolina doing better. <v Speaker>Ben Mitchell won't go. Ron Meyer rebounds, tries to get it out. <v Speaker>Kellog picks it up for Kansas. <v Speaker>Kellogg hey <v Speaker>you now ours made thirteen straight field goals and <v Speaker>Kellogg with twenty eight point seventy two to fifty five <v Speaker>and Kansas now having things pretty much the way they wanted it underneath. <v Speaker>Ben like foul on Dreiling.

<v Speaker>That's the first time that Hunter has lost his man in the second half. <v Speaker>And Joe. Right. That's a second shot. <v Speaker>He's gotten off. He's only touched the ball five times. <v Speaker>Joe Wright was able to duck around the screen. <v Speaker>Then he got fouled. <v Speaker>Turgeon is going to come back and you remember he took a shot on the bridge of the nose. <v Speaker>And Cedric Hunter is at a fine game, gets a rest. <v Speaker>Boy, he's been sensational. Kellogg has been amazing. <v Speaker>J That's the season's high with that twenty eight point. <v Speaker>He had twenty seven against Missouri earlier this year. <v Speaker>Joe, right at the line right <v Speaker>now, has 20 this afternoon. <v Speaker>Six minutes to play, 70 to 57, Kansas. <v Speaker>Kansas, with a win, will clinch the Big Eight regular season title.

<v Speaker>Ball belongs to Kansas State as Dreiling lost it in under there <v Speaker>and the ball hit a Kansas player. <v Speaker>Fourteen turnovers now for Kansas State, seven for Kansas. <v Speaker>Joe. Right. <v Speaker>And he blew it away trying to get it over to Len Smith. <v Speaker>The fifth turnover against the Wildcat Cedric Johnson has <v Speaker>picked up right now. Really, there's not been a drop off. <v Speaker>He made him work very, very hard. Hunter getting a little bit of a blow. <v Speaker>It is Calvin Thompson with Turgeon and Manning and Kellogg and Dreiling <v Speaker>on the court for the Jayhawks looking to win there. <v Speaker>Twenty six to the year, third ranked in both bowls. <v Speaker>Manning didn't go. <v Speaker>He was going to go with the right hand side, was in trouble, shoveled it, left them back

<v Speaker>then across some kind of move. And of course, when you go underneath like that, it keeps <v Speaker>the defender off your back. What impresses me about him is his footwork. <v Speaker>You play the game with your feet. And boy, he knows how foul on Dreiling. <v Speaker>And Dreiling commits his second personal foul, <v Speaker>Cedric Hunter will come back in for Kansas to replace <v Speaker>Dreiling. <v Speaker>I want to be Dreiling and Thompson and Turgeon and Kellogg and Manning <v Speaker>out there for Kansas. <v Speaker>Norris Coleman with 19 points Hook Line. <v Speaker>There's Greg Grayling's message is right there. <v Speaker>Very lovely, Kelly. <v Speaker>They have a daughter, Jill Lindsey, <v Speaker>back into the lineup. Lance Simmons, number 34, replaces Ron Meyer for the Wildcats.

<v Speaker>Four fifty four remaining 74. <v Speaker>Fifty eight, Kansas. <v Speaker>Norris Coleman. Eight out of 14, 20 points. <v Speaker>That a fine second half. <v Speaker>Four. <v Speaker>Fifty nine. Fifteen point advantage for the Jayhawks. <v Speaker>No use of block. Now, as long as a three two defense, a look at that mean somebody is <v Speaker>open at the top. <v Speaker>Big crowd of better than 15000 sitting quietly now, <v Speaker>but they'll be celebrating their regular season. <v Speaker>Big a championship here. <v Speaker>If the Jayhawks win this one and it appears they will as they have a 15 point <v Speaker>advantage. Try to take it all away and bat it out. <v Speaker>Here's right. Right for the Wildcats.

<v Speaker>Put it up. It is good. He is. <v Speaker>Joe Wright's first bucket of the second half gay status. <v Speaker>Got to get some shots out quickly. They're going to have to come out either foul or <v Speaker>double up. Number one, Jimmy Valvano won a national championship, Jay, just following <v Speaker>the North Carolina state. He had no shot in the Pepperton game. <v Speaker>Wow. You always have a shot, I guess. <v Speaker>No. And that's something <v Speaker>Wright has twenty three points <v Speaker>tapped out. <v Speaker>Right. Gets it back. <v Speaker>Call a foul on Turgeon Sturgeon's Third. <v Speaker>But that's a break for K State because only two seconds click off the clock and Bright <v Speaker>knocks a couple down to pick it up. <v Speaker>The three points they pick up for here. <v Speaker>It's not impossible. <v Speaker>Well there's no quit in the Jack Hartman teams, you know that they'll battle. <v Speaker>You're right.

<v Speaker>We've got a time out for oh nine remaining to be played <v Speaker>in regulation time. Kansas. <v Speaker>Seventy four. Kansas State sixty one. <v Speaker>First sergeant. <v Speaker>Protection source.

<v Speaker>Well, some of those big crowd. <v Speaker>Fifteen thousand one hundred twenty two plus jammed in <v Speaker>Kansas at Kansas State. <v Speaker>Kansas is one of the last six we mentioned earlier. <v Speaker>Jack Hartman has not been named Larry Brown. <v Speaker>Coach Dean, this storied series goes back <v Speaker>to nineteen hundred and two. The last win for the Wildcats here was a 70 <v Speaker>63 victory in the 82 83 season. <v Speaker>Here's the field goal, shooting Kansas, one of the best <v Speaker>in all of college basketball in that department, of course. <v Speaker>And here is Joe, right? <v Speaker>Late in the second half. Duke by seven over Oklahoma.

<v Speaker>Oklahoma showing very well against that fine HCC unit <v Speaker>of Microsoft. <v Speaker>Seventy four. <v Speaker>Sixty three. Kansas by eleven. <v Speaker>Gallop trapping possibilities here. <v Speaker>Once again, when you extend like that, the keyhole is open <v Speaker>dreiling to Kellogg for Thompson around one hundred back out <v Speaker>the Thompson eight and the clock up and Dreiling missed the pass from Manning <v Speaker>and underneath right. <v Speaker>Got that ball to Mitchell Len Smith almost losing <v Speaker>it as Hunter snuck up behind him. <v Speaker>It's I came here Jay try to get it in for a three pointer right down <v Speaker>the block by Dreiling Manning dashes it down the Kellogg <v Speaker>Kellogg. <v Speaker>It's about a five point play <v Speaker>right there differential.

<v Speaker>They really could that could do it. Coleman went up. <v Speaker>Dreiling did a great job at the other end stuffing him. <v Speaker>Take a look at the transition game. <v Speaker>Kellogg having the best night any jayhawkers had all year long. <v Speaker>The Cedric Cutter Hunter with a finger roll. <v Speaker>He's fouled. <v Speaker>Look at the block at the other end J. This was every bit as important. <v Speaker>They went in, tried for the three pointer a bit. <v Speaker>Greg Dreiling clean. <v Speaker>And as we come back, like three point play, Hunter now has nine points. <v Speaker>Seventy seven. Sixty three, Kansas. <v Speaker>That little free throw may not mean a lot to anybody, but it does. <v Speaker>Larry Brown. Hunter struggled earlier in the year tremendously from the line. <v Speaker>No foul him in the big a tournament and in the NBA playoffs. <v Speaker>He's got to make his free throws. You mentioned his improvement. <v Speaker>Ben Mitchell from the corner 77 65. <v Speaker>The lead as a dozen for the Jayhawks with three minutes to play. <v Speaker>Dreiling takes it in.

<v Speaker>Didn't got it. He is bound by Ben Mitchell. <v Speaker>Jack Hartman wants a timeout. <v Speaker>And Hartmans is going to get the time up. <v Speaker>Foul on Mitchell is his third. <v Speaker>Oh. Want to remind you about Monday night. <v Speaker>And we will let's take a look at that play a moment ago. <v Speaker>Inside game once again. Great Dreiling. <v Speaker>So big, so strong. <v Speaker>Picks it here, puts it on the ground and goes up with the little jump shot and it gets <v Speaker>found. Don't forget Monday night, Kansas. <v Speaker>Most of these stations. <v Speaker>Bankers have hundreds of years of banking tradition to back them up. <v Speaker>Bankers here and bankers are the newest ideas that have been. <v Speaker>Larry, as a youngster enjoying the big a basketball action this afternoon

<v Speaker>here with his dad, he mentioned that the Jayhawks will be in Oklahoma Monday at <v Speaker>game at eight thirty Central Time. <v Speaker>Then they'll meet Iowa State here next Saturday to finish off league play. <v Speaker>The Wildcats finish at home a week from today against Nebraska. <v Speaker>They'll play at Missouri next Wednesday evening. <v Speaker>And Dreiling with nine points, four for nine from the field, two rebounds <v Speaker>and three assists. This afternoon. <v Speaker>And the gentle giant misses the first step to <v Speaker>get a hands on him. <v Speaker>He's going to go high in the NBA draft. They tell me he has really improved. <v Speaker>NBA scouts like the way start to rebound in an area. <v Speaker>Now, he's worked very hard to hone his skills. <v Speaker>Seventy eight. Sixty five. <v Speaker>Kansas. <v Speaker>Thirteen point lead for the Jayhawks

<v Speaker>and a charge they call a foul <v Speaker>on Kellogg, Kellogg has stayed all the way <v Speaker>with. <v Speaker>It's a good move by Larry Brock, as many as four. <v Speaker>There it is. It's a good call. It is ever to get in front. <v Speaker>One more look at it. Jerry Brown is really intelligent. <v Speaker>Just a little play like that man has for putting on somebody who's not going to go the <v Speaker>hole whole, not going to shoot the ball. Let Kellogg, who can cover his record about this <v Speaker>man, let him. <v Speaker>Come on, man. Larry Brown with a good basketball player. <v Speaker>Tough guy. Knew how to use his elbows behind everything played for Dean Smith at North <v Speaker>Carolina. <v Speaker>Mitchell has 13 points. <v Speaker>Mitchell gets its bigging of Larry Brown. He's a little upset. <v Speaker>There's been a rumor going around that he might be going to the New York Knicks. <v Speaker>He said, I don't know what I'd start out over the next half a coach. <v Speaker>And I'm very happy here, Dick.

<v Speaker>But now our brand. <v Speaker>I've got that whole thing started. <v Speaker>I was upset there. Joe Wright ran round from the second spot before the ball was <v Speaker>released. <v Speaker>He touched any day and that's why he went wild. <v Speaker>It didn't sound like much, but he's got the same officials in the big A term and he's got <v Speaker>a 10 point lead. <v Speaker>But this is a message for two weeks from now, 78. <v Speaker>Sixty 67. Kansas. <v Speaker>Kellogg demanding the dreiling and back out front, leading up the clock. <v Speaker>They do this pretty good gasometer Oklahoma State. <v Speaker>They just ran a clinic very <v Speaker>well drilled. Manning in the lane gets it. <v Speaker>Eighty to sixty seven. Kansas with a minute and forty five to go. <v Speaker>Manning fifteen. <v Speaker>Joe, right in the middle.

<v Speaker>Twenty five to go. <v Speaker>Eighty to sixty nine, right has twenty seven on the afternoon <v Speaker>turnover back comes right. <v Speaker>Gives it the metal. <v Speaker>It'll belong to Kansas. <v Speaker>But wait a minute. Yes, it will. <v Speaker>Sixteen turnovers now, brocades day, Turgeon returning to the lineup for <v Speaker>the Jayhawks, Dreiling <v Speaker>going out. Nice hand for Greg. <v Speaker>Growling Get a good second half. <v Speaker>Eighty to sixty nine. Kansas Jayhawks with the ball a minute. <v Speaker>The play. <v Speaker>Down to 50 second

<v Speaker>Thompson, 80 to 69. <v Speaker>They're happy because they had the big a championship for the first time since 1978. <v Speaker>And their celebration is going to begin here in about forty one seconds. <v Speaker>And Manning coming out. <v Speaker>Archie Marshall coming in. <v Speaker>Piper comes in. Power goes out. <v Speaker>Manning with 15. Kellogg with 30 points <v Speaker>blocked by Thompson out of bounds with thirty three seconds lapse <v Speaker>into the lineup for Kansas number twenty, Rodney Hall. <v Speaker>First time we've seen a sophomore from Chicago, Illinois this afternoon <v Speaker>and Calvin Thompson to leave.

<v Speaker>And they start the celebration here with about half a minute to play. <v Speaker>Thompson with 18 <v Speaker>and Larry is going to get another player in the game as soon as that gets himself squared <v Speaker>away. That's what I half for this guy. He was great. <v Speaker>Cedric was amazing on defense. <v Speaker>Cedric Connor coming out <v Speaker>shot, but from the right side won't go. <v Speaker>Milt Newton is in the lineup along with Piper and Archie Marshall <v Speaker>and Turgeon Hall and about <v Speaker>eleven seconds left. <v Speaker>They on their feet here. <v Speaker>That's a very happy time. <v Speaker>But the Jayhawk folks, regular season, big title, <v Speaker>first time since 78, turns in with a one on one.

<v Speaker>The little guy from Topeka can make it a 15 point lead. <v Speaker>They're counting it down. <v Speaker>Mitchell takes it down once they go. <v Speaker>And the Kansas Jayhawks are regular <v Speaker>season big champions. <v Speaker>Eighty board, a 69. <v Speaker>Kansas over Kansas State, Larry Brown <v Speaker>continues his mastery over Jack Hartman. <v Speaker>Some travel arrangements made through Eastern airlines. <v Speaker>Whether you're traveling to Florida for spring vacation or spring training, chances are <v Speaker>easterns going your way. Come fly with eastern

<v Speaker>Herb Brown. <v Speaker>A remarkable year for the Jayhawks, who I think have a lot to look forward <v Speaker>to with 30. <v Speaker>Thompson with 18. Manning with fifteen. <v Speaker>Driving with 10. Hunter with nine. <v Speaker>Quite a job. We'll be right back after this. <v Speaker>Fun Budweiser. <v Speaker>Here's to you, Beechwood age for their clean Christi's that says. <v Speaker>Be enemy snow. <v Speaker>You never know when your car might lose its grip. <v Speaker>But as I am watching people with years exceptional

<v Speaker>Pampling or. <v Speaker>Aggressive criss cross tread, actually, Kooning's itself was <v Speaker>a. <v Speaker>Herb Brown, fun working with you this afternoon. <v Speaker>I enjoyed it very much. Too many horses for Kansas they came out to play. <v Speaker>Jack Carpenter, Valiant try. <v Speaker>All right. Thanks, Sam. Ray Kopp Sports will continue its exclusive coverage of Big Eight <v Speaker>basketball Monday night, Kansas and Oklahoma for <v Speaker>Jay Randolph anymore. Sixty nine Kansas. <v Speaker>This has been a right, a presentation of the Raycom Sports Network. <v Speaker>Winning a 30 second in a row. <v Speaker>You realize that you probably wouldn't want to be forward with an idea that you <v Speaker>might expect too big. You have an for the. <v Speaker>Paul.