AIDS: Changing the Rules

<v Speaker>[WETA music]. <v announcer>Funding for this program has been made possible by this and other public television <v announcer>stations. <v interviewee>I feel I know quite a bit about AIDS. I read a lot about it in newspaper magazines. <v interviewee 2>I feel I know a lot about it, but it doesn't really concern me that much. <v interviewee 3>They think it will affect somebody else, but never them. <v interviewee 4>I first started thinking about it when I started reading Time and Newsweek articles <v interviewee 4>that came out around January and February that said that the heterosexual population had <v interviewee 4>a good chance of catching it. <v Judy Woodruff>AIDS. There's no getting away from it. <v Judy Woodruff>Pick up a newspaper any day. <v Judy Woodruff>There'll be a story about it. Turn on the television. <v Judy Woodruff>The sitcom characters are talking about it. <v Judy Woodruff>And in our own lives, sometimes people we know of are dying of <v Judy Woodruff>it. All this talk of AIDS is scary. <v Judy Woodruff>We get confused when one piece of information contradicts another. <v Judy Woodruff>We want to make sure that we're doing the right things to prevent getting AIDS. <v Judy Woodruff>But many of us are not sure what the rules and the facts really are.

<v Judy Woodruff>I'm Judy Woodruff. Here to tell you that there are things you can do. <v Judy Woodruff>Join me for a program that will try to give you some answers. <v Judy Woodruff>It's called AIDS Changing the Rules. <v Judy Woodruff>It's meant especially for heterosexuals, people who have relations with <v Judy Woodruff>the opposite sex. Until recently, most heterosexuals, unless they <v Judy Woodruff>injected drugs, assumed that AIDS was someone else's problem. <v Judy Woodruff>This isn't necessarily true anymore. <v Judy Woodruff>AIDS changing the rules begins with a film. <v Judy Woodruff>A word of warning to parents. <v Judy Woodruff>This film is intended for an adult audience, not for children. <v Judy Woodruff>You will hear some very explicit language about the safety of some sexual <v Judy Woodruff>practices. There is also a demonstration of the proper use of a condom. <v Judy Woodruff>So you will want to use discretion. <v Judy Woodruff>After the film. I'll be back with some of the country's top AIDS experts for a <v Judy Woodruff>discussion. We'll also give you some additional information.

<v Judy Woodruff>Now, AIDS changing the rules. <v Ron Reagan>If you're not gay and you're not an I.V. <v Ron Reagan>drug user, why should you watch a movie about AIDS? <v Ron Reagan>Why should you care? <v speaker 2>I have AIDS. <v speaker 3>I have AIDS. <v speaker 4>I have AIDS and my baby has AIDS. <v speaker 4>[cries] <v multiple voices overlapping>I have AIDS. <v multiple voices overlapping>I have AIDS. I have AIDS. <v multiple voices overlapping>I have AIDS. AIDS. <v multiple voices overlapping>I have AIDS. <v Ron Reagan>The rules that run all our sexual lives have changed. <v Ron Reagan>Now, gay men and IV drug users are not the only ones in danger. <v Ron Reagan>The number of AIDS cases due to heterosexual contact is not that large yet, but

<v Ron Reagan>it is growing fast. <v Ron Reagan>Which is not to say that AIDS isn't still devastating the gay community or taking the <v Ron Reagan>lives of I.V. drug users. <v Ron Reagan>It is. But they're already making changes in how they live. <v Ron Reagan>They know they're in danger. <v Ron Reagan>This film will tell you what AIDS is, how you get it and how you avoid getting it. <v Ron Reagan>We'll tell you what the doctors know for sure and what they're still unclear about. <v Ron Reagan>When this film is over. You'll know what you need to do so that you won't get AIDS. <v Ron Reagan>The first thing I want you to know is you don't have to be afraid of people with AIDS. <v Ron Reagan>They're not contagious. <v Ron Reagan>You can't get AIDS from touching them. <v Ron Reagan>You hear AIDS and right away you get scared to get it from somebody's glass or from the <v Ron Reagan>toilet. It's an understandable first reaction, but it's wrong. <v Ron Reagan>Studies show that doctors and nurses don't get it from patients and kids don't

<v Ron Reagan>get it from their infected brothers or sisters. <v Ron Reagan>AIDS is not spread by casual contact. <v Ron Reagan>And if you're not sure what that means. <v Ron Reagan>Watch this. <v Speaker>[music plays] <v Speaker> <v speaker 1>AIDS is caused by a virus.

<v speaker 1>If it gets into your blood, it can destroy your immune system. <v speaker 1>Your immune system being what helps you fight off infection. <v speaker 1>So when you have AIDS, you get sick a lot with diseases you've never even heard of, <v speaker 1>diseases that can kill you. <v speaker 1>The only treatment for AIDS is with experimental drugs that are expensive and have <v speaker 1>potentially severe side effects. <v speaker 1>There is no vaccine against AIDS and no cure. <v speaker 1>Once you've got AIDS, you've got it for the rest of your life. <v speaker 1>AIDS can be a disease that just wastes you. <v speaker 1>Slowly and painfully. <v speaker 1>Infections of AIDS can cause fever, night sweats. <v speaker 1>Hacking cough, blindness, diarrhea, and fatigue. <v speaker 1>AIDS can attack the brain. <v speaker 1>In the final stages, you may lose the ability to walk, speak or even <v speaker 1>remember the names of the people you love. <v speaker 1>Most people with AIDS die of a severe form of pneumonia called Pneumocystis <v speaker 1>Carinii or PCP.

<v speaker 1>Some people, especially gay men, get a rare form of cancer called <v speaker 1>Kaposi's sarcoma. <v speaker 1>This man is 23 years old. <v speaker 1>A year ago, he weighed 150 pounds. <v speaker 1>Six months ago, he worked at his job and worked out at his gym. <v speaker 1>How do you get the AIDS virus? How does the virus get into your blood? <v speaker 1>It used to be that you could get it from transfusions because some of the blood supply <v speaker 1>was infected. But this isn't a problem anymore. <v speaker 1>The blood supply is screened now, but you can put the AIDS virus in your blood <v speaker 1>with this. And that's just what you're doing. <v speaker 1>Every time you share a needle with someone, you're shooting someone else's blood right <v speaker 1>into your own vein. <v speaker 1>Fifty percent of the drug users in New York City are infected with the virus. <v speaker 1>Share a needle with one of them and you'll be infected too. <v Jeff Schuessler>I was an I.V. drug user.

<v Jeff Schuessler>Most likely that's where I got AIDS. <v Jeff Schuessler>I had a flu that wouldn't go away for about two months. <v Jeff Schuessler>The only thing that really prevented me from worrying about it was that I had been <v Jeff Schuessler>totally drug free for over five years. <v Ron Reagan>Jeff Schuessler was diagnosed with PCP two years ago. <v Ron Reagan>Two months after he was married to Pat. <v Jeff Schuessler>Day to day living with AIDS, it's been it's been pretty rough. <v Jeff Schuessler>It's it's it's very unpredictable. <v Pat Schuessler>The thing is, you wake up every morning wondering, you know, am I going to be OK today <v Pat Schuessler>or what's going to hit me? And we've gone through maybe eight or nine <v Pat Schuessler>different opportunistic illnesses with Jeff, including a virus <v Pat Schuessler>that caused him to lose his eyesight in his left eye. <v Jeff Schuessler>The eyesight thing really put a damper on the quality of my life <v Jeff Schuessler>like we've discussed in the past. <v Jeff Schuessler>Quality of life versus quantity of life. <v Jeff Schuessler>And at this point, we really have no control over the quantity

<v Jeff Schuessler>of how long I'm going to live. <v Jeff Schuessler>So what we do right now, both of us together, is try to make it the best life <v Jeff Schuessler>we could. <v Jeff Schuessler>I always wanted a son or daughter of my own. <v Jeff Schuessler>I love kids and I would love to have my own kid, but <v Jeff Schuessler>it's just. Like I said, it's out of the question. <v Jeff Schuessler>There's no way. I can still dream. <v Jeff Schuessler>I could still think about the good things and the things that I wanted out <v Jeff Schuessler>of life and. <v Jeff Schuessler>You know, then that's when it really that fear of dying and the knowledge that I will die <v Jeff Schuessler>pops up and it suppresses all the dreams and it really <v Jeff Schuessler>hurts. It scares the hell out of me. <v Jeff Schuessler>I feel a lot of guilt from Pat and my family, people that I'm going to leave behind <v Jeff Schuessler>at such a young age and me, thirty seven years old. <v Jeff Schuessler>And Pat could be a widow at any given moment. <v Pat Schuessler>I get very afraid that I'm not going to be able to.

<v Pat Schuessler>Give him whatever he's going to need at the end. <v Pat Schuessler>You know? <v Pat Schuessler>I think that I'm afraid to let go <v Pat Schuessler>of him. <v Pat Schuessler>But um... <v Pat Schuessler>I guess I really don't know what it's going to be like till it happens. <v Pat Schuessler>And. <v Pat Schuessler>Most of the time I can't really put myself there. <v Pat Schuessler>You know? I have to go on and believe that somehow something <v Pat Schuessler>will happen, that will help us keep him alive <v Pat Schuessler>till there's a cure. I mean, that's really the bottom line. <v Jeff Schuessler>Hope is what held us together and hope's what's keeping us going now. <v Beverly Johnson>Thirty five thousand Americans have been diagnosed with AIDS.

<v Beverly Johnson>More than half of them are dead. <v Beverly Johnson>By 1991, there will be more than a quarter of a million people in this <v Beverly Johnson>country with AIDS. By 1991, more Americans will die from <v Beverly Johnson>AIDS every year than died in the entire Vietnam War. <v Beverly Johnson>By 1991 ten million Americans may be infected with the <v Beverly Johnson>AIDS virus. <v Beverly Johnson>This used to be a disease of gay men and IV drug users. <v Beverly Johnson>That's changing. The number of AIDS cases due to heterosexual contact. <v Beverly Johnson>Is doubling every six months. <v Beverly Johnson>Last year in New York City, the number of women with AIDS rose eighty <v Beverly Johnson>one percent. And it's now the number one killer of women <v Beverly Johnson>between the ages of 25 and 29. <v speaker 4>I have AIDS and my baby has AIDS. <v speaker 4>My husband may have it, but he won't go to the doctor. <v speaker 4>In the beginning he wouldn't even talk about it.

<v speaker 4>My mother helps us, but sometimes I think she's afraid. <v speaker 4>Every night I kneel by my baby's crib and pray to be strong for <v speaker 4>him. Every night I pray that my baby won't die. <v speaker 4>[cries] <v Beverly Johnson>Minorities are being hit hard by AIDS. <v Beverly Johnson>Blacks and Hispanics make up 20 percent of the population in this country. <v Beverly Johnson>But we make up 40 percent of the AIDS cases. <v Beverly Johnson>Nine out of 10 women with AIDS are Black or Hispanic. <v Beverly Johnson>Nine out of 10 babies born with AIDS are Black or Hispanic. <v speaker 4>You know, I see a lot of my friends just died. <v speaker 4>And some people think that it doesn't really happen. <v speaker 4>But it does. <v speaker 4>I just want the public to know, just to have- just <v speaker 4>to be cautious.

<v speaker 4>And if they're I.V. Users, not to share needles. <v speaker 4>And if you're gonna have any sexual contact with anybody, just <v speaker 4>use condoms or just just be very cautious. <v speaker 4>It is not a gay [inaudible]. <v Beverly Johnson>Some people are panicking about what they've done in the past. <v Beverly Johnson>Don't. You can't do anything about the past and heterosexuals haven't <v Beverly Johnson>really been at risk. Until now, the chance of your having had sex with someone <v Beverly Johnson>who was infected is very small. <v Beverly Johnson>It's now that you need to start changing what you're doing. <v Beverly Johnson>Some people are deciding never to have sex again with anyone ever. <v Beverly Johnson>Abstinence is the best protection of all, but is not very realistic for most <v Beverly Johnson>of us. It's not my solution. <v Beverly Johnson>If it's not yours, there are some things you need to know.

<v Beverly Johnson>The first thing is to use a condom, a rubber. <v Beverly Johnson>Buy condoms, learn to use them right, and use them every time you have sex. <v Beverly Johnson>There's AIDS virus in vaginal secretions and semen, you know, <v Beverly Johnson>come. So during vaginal or anal intercourse, men can <v Beverly Johnson>give AIDS to women and women can give AIDS to men. <v Beverly Johnson>When you have sexual intercourse, the man must wear a condom. <v Beverly Johnson>It's protection for both of you. <v Beverly Johnson>But unless you use the condom right, it's no protection at all. <v Beverly Johnson>So learn how to put one on. <v Beverly Johnson>Learn how to put one on somebody else. <v Beverly Johnson>Remember, practice makes perfect. <v Beverly Johnson>Oral sex. <v Beverly Johnson>When a woman goes down on a man, the men must wear a condom always <v Beverly Johnson>every time. When a man goes down on a woman, there is some <v Beverly Johnson>risk involved, especially when a woman has her period.

<v Beverly Johnson>Unfortunately, there's not much protection available. <v Beverly Johnson>Deep kissing. Everybody wants to know about deep kissing. <v Beverly Johnson>There may be some risk, but most doctors think it's extremely low. <v Beverly Johnson>And that's it. Anything else you want to do, do. <v Ron Reagan>Condoms now have to be a part of your life. <v Ron Reagan>Everybody's talking about them. Newspapers and magazines are carrying ads for them. <v Ron Reagan>Even television. Ads like this are something you're gonna be seeing a lot of. <v speaker 5>Dear Dave, this little gift may surprise you, especially since <v speaker 5>it comes from your square old man. <v speaker 5>You see, you live in a world I never imagined with herpes <v speaker 5>and AIDS and a whole lot of scary diseases I can't even pronounce. <v speaker 5>This is a gift of love and caring and I hope understanding. <v speaker 5>Take care of yourself. Pa. <v Ruben Blades>Look, Condoms are the best protection we have against giving and getting AIDS, but

<v Ruben Blades>only if you use them right. <v Ruben Blades>So men pay attention. <v Ruben Blades>I'm gonna to show you what to do. <v Ruben Blades>This is a condom, a rubber, in its package. <v Ruben Blades>This is the condom itself. <v Ruben Blades>This is a spermicide nonoxynol nine. <v Ruben Blades>It kills the AIDS virus. <v Ruben Blades>You want to squirt a little bit of this stuff into <v Ruben Blades>the condom. <v Ruben Blades>Before you put it on. <v Ruben Blades>This is a banana. <v Ruben Blades>I wish there were an easier way to show you is. <v Ruben Blades>OK, put this side where you squirted the spermicide <v Ruben Blades>up against the end of your banana. <v Ruben Blades>And start to roll it down.

<v Ruben Blades>Hold the tip to keep out air bubbles. <v Ruben Blades>Leave a little slack at the end. <v Ruben Blades>For what comes later. <v Ruben Blades>Now, if you're still hard after all that, you're ready. <v Ruben Blades>I had a little trouble getting the hang of it at first, but practice makes perfect. <v Ruben Blades>Some guys like to use a lubricant. <v Ruben Blades>If you do make sure you only use a water based lubricant like K y, <v Ruben Blades>oil based lubricants can damage a condom. <v Ruben Blades>Now, one more thing. You have to pull out as soon as you're finished. <v Ruben Blades>No fooling around. Hold onto the end here. <v Ruben Blades>And pull out. You don't want it to leak or fall off. <v Ruben Blades>Look, these things can save your life. <v Ruben Blades>So use them. Oh and there's one last thing, the tests you've <v Ruben Blades>all heard about. I've heard guys say that if they take the test and it comes back

<v Ruben Blades>negative, they won't have to use condoms. <v Ruben Blades>Wrong. That is not what the test is for. <v Ruben Blades>If the test comes back negative, it doesn't mean you can't get the virus. <v Ruben Blades>It just means you probably don't have it now. <v Ruben Blades>You still have to use a condom to protect yourself so you won't get it. <v Ruben Blades>This whole testing thing is a real complicated personal decision. <v Ruben Blades>I really can't advise you on it except to say no matter what you decide, <v Ruben Blades>you should continue to use condoms until the doctors come up with a cure. <v Beverly Johnson>Everybody has got to figure out a way to be more comfortable talking about sex. <v Beverly Johnson>We spent the 70s learning to be more comfortable doing it. <v Beverly Johnson>Now we have to learn how to talk about it. <v actor 1>You want to know last night? <v actor 2>Yeah.

<v actor 1>Remember I told you about that on Monday? <v actor 1>Oh, God. It was so great. This guy was intelligent. <v actor 1>He had a personality, a sense of humor. <v actor 3>It's so nice after six months to meet someone. <v actor 2>Tie him down, keep him. <v actor 1>In a couple of weeks I think I might go back on the pill. <v actor 1>Just get it out of the way. <v actor 2>Are you going to use condoms? <v actor 1>No, I said I'm going on the pill. <v actor 2>Jan, remember we talked about it, AIDS? <v actor 1>Oh, please. This guy's an accountant, he doesn't have AIDS. <v actor 3>AIDS doesn't discriminate against jobs. <v actor 1>Well, I know, but you know who has AIDS? <v actor 3>And I don't worry about. <v actor 1>It's gay people and people who use heroin and shoot up. <v actor 1>You know. <v actor 3>That's not true. <v actor 2>Jan, I saw, I saw on Oprah Winfrey. <v actor 2>There was this woman on her show who had AIDS, and she was really skinny. <v actor 2>She looked terrible. She had a relationship with this guy who was bisexual. <v actor 2>And there she was with AIDS. She was twenty seven. <v actor 2>I'm twenty seven. <v actor 1>I'm trying to get a date. Now you're telling me I can't go to bed with him-. <v actor 3>What are we supposed to do?

<v actor 2>Wear a condom <v actor 1>It's not my responsibility. It's the guy's responsability. <v actor 2>That's not true. It's your responsibility. <v actor 2>And you should use condoms. <v actor 2>Remember, Ron, who I dated two months ago? <v actor 2>And I told you I didn't want to see him because I didn't like him anymore. <v actor 1>Yeah. <v actor 2>I asked him to use a condom and he didn't want to. <v actor 2>So I didn't see him anymore. <v actor 1>So you let him go? <v actor 2>Yeah. <v actor 1>He was a great guy. <v actor 2>Wasn't that great, he would use a condom. <v actor 2>He didn't even want to talk about it. And he said, why do I need to use a condom? <v actor 2>I'm not gay. <v actor 1>Well, how do you convince somebody then? What do you say? <v actor 1>I mean, I just the first time. <v actor 2>A guy said yes to a condom. <v actor 2>I did the same thing I did with Ron. I just said, I'd like you to use a condom. <v actor 2>And he said, okay. He said, okay. <v actor 3>I could never say that to mink well. We don't even talk about. <v actor 3>We don't even talk about sex. <v actor 2>Oh come on. <v actor 3>He might even hurt me, you know? I mean, I couldn't. <v actor 1>Well, you got to talk about sex. I mean, you must talk about sex. <v actor 3>We just do it. We don't-. <v actor 1>What do you think a condom is? <v actor 3>I don't know what a condom is. <v actor 3>I've never seen one.

<v actor 2>I can't believe you've never seen one. <v actor 3>No. What are you doing? <v actor 2>It's all right. It's a condom, it's not a gun. <v actor 1>Don't open that. Oh, it's one of those goopy ones. <v actor 2>Oh, you have to get this condom that has nonoxynol nine in it. <v actor 3>Well, they have this. <v actor 2>It kills the AIDS virus. <v actor 1>They have the spermicides stuff in there way before AIDS came around. <v actor 2>Yeah, but this will do it. <v actor 2>See? <v actor 2>A rubber. <v actor 1>I can't believe you carry these around in your purse. That is so disgusting. <v actor 2>What's disgusting about it? <v actor 1>What do you do? Pick these guys up on the street, keep them in your cabinet. <v actor 2>Just because I have a condom doesn't mean I'm a tramp. <v actor 2>Here. <v actor 1>They are so gross. <v actor 2>Jan. here. <v actor 2>A present for your birthday. <v actor 2>I'm not making this story up. <v actor 2>I'm not lying about any of it. It's all true. <v actor 2>Try it. <v actor 1>I promise you I'll try it. <v actor 1>If it ever comes up. <v actor 3>Oh, good. <v actor 2>You want one? <v actor 3>No! <v actor 1>You have to take one, I took one.

<v Beverly Johnson>The most important person to start talking to is your sexual partner. <v Beverly Johnson>That might not be such an easy conversation. <v actor 1>David. <v David>Yes. <v actor 1>Respect. David, do you respect me? <v David>Anything [inaudible] <v actor 1>You do? Will you? <v David>Anything. <v actor 1>Commitment. <v David>Anything. <v actor 1>Kids? <v David>Anything. <v actor 1>A big wedding. <v David>[laughs] Anything. <v actor 1>A condom? <v David>What? <v actor 1>A condom. <v David>Yea, sure. <v David>Next time. <v actor 1>What? <v David>Well, I'm not prepared. <v actor 1>Oh, of course not.

<v actor 1>I have some. <v David>Oh, great. <v actor 1>Come on David, it is great. <v actor 1>I mean. <v actor 1>Don't you think? <v David>Yeah, I know. <v David>Aren't you on the pill? <v actor 1>Of course, but this isn't about birth control. <v David>First time we make love, you want to ruin it? <v actor 1>No. <v David>Then we can skip it this time. <v actor 1>No. <v actor 1>No. <v actor 1>We couldn't if. <v David>I didn't, yea I know. <v actor 1>So you will? <v David>Anything. <v actor 1>Oh, David. <v David>I hate rubbers. <v actor 1>Well, you won't after tonight. <v Ron Reagan>AIDS is not a moral issue.

<v Ron Reagan>You don't get AIDS because you're bad or because you do bad things. <v Ron Reagan>You get AIDS because you're unlucky, because you put yourself in situations where you're <v Ron Reagan>at risk. Don't put yourself in risky situations. <v Ron Reagan>Someday your luck might run out. <v Ron Reagan>There's not really much to remember. One, use a condom or don't have sex. <v Ron Reagan>Two, use a condom because you can't know who your partner has slept with or <v Ron Reagan>your partner's partners. <v Ron Reagan>Three, use a condom and use a condom right. <v Ron Reagan>They're not the perfect protection, but they're the best there is. <v Ron Reagan>Four, use your head. <v Ron Reagan>Sex isn't as simple as it used to be. <v Ron Reagan>Think about what you're doing and who you're doing it with. <v Speaker>[ending credits music] <v Judy Woodruff>Coming up next, a discussion of AIDS changing the rules. <v Judy Woodruff>Answers to some of your questions about AIDS. <v Judy Woodruff>Stay with us.

<v Speaker>[music continues] <v Judy Woodruff>Welcome back. The film we just saw gave us a lot of new information about

<v Judy Woodruff>AIDS. It also may have raised some new questions. <v Judy Woodruff>Here for some answers are three people who have spent a great deal of their time <v Judy Woodruff>thinking, talking and writing about AIDS. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Reed Tuckson, commissioner of public health for the District of Columbia. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Helen Singer Kaplan, director of the Human Sexuality Program <v Judy Woodruff>at New York Hospital, Cornell Medical Center. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Kaplan is also the author of a new book about women and AIDS. <v Judy Woodruff>And Dr. Walter Dowdle, deputy director of the federal Centers for Disease <v Judy Woodruff>Control in Atlanta. <v Judy Woodruff>Thank you all for being with us. Clearly, a message, a central message <v Judy Woodruff>from that film is that it's no longer just homosexuals who need to be worried about AIDS, <v Judy Woodruff>but heterosexuals. Dr. Dowdle, let me put this question to you first. <v Judy Woodruff>How concerned should heterosexuals be about AIDS? <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>Well, of course, as you know that right now, the major problem in this country is, is <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>cases from homosexuals spread and I.V.

<v Dr. Walter Dowdle>drug abuse. And in other countries, of course, it's just the opposite, particularly in <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>the tropical area where most of the cases are, in fact, heterosexual spreads. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>So it can occur. Now in this country. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>The spread most likely will be out from I.V. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>drug abuse into the heterosexual population. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>You may hear of cases, for example, of spread from bisexuals or <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>from, say, blood transfusions, someone who may have been infected in the past. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>But basically the problem is going to be I.V. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>drug abuse spread and into those populations who already have contact. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Kaplan, what's your experience? I mean, how how worried should heterosexuals be? <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>Well, I think we should be very worried. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>Not right now. It's not too late to prevent a major disaster. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>I think I agree, Walt, that drug abuse is <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>going to be the greatest danger for the minority populations, Blacks <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>and Hispanics. But I think for White and Middle-Class Women, the <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>bisexual route is probably the one I worry about most.

<v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Tuckson, what about in the District of Columbia? <v Judy Woodruff>I mean, what is what is your special concern here in a city of this size? <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>Well, my special concern is that regardless of where you are geographically in this <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>country, you don't know the past history of the person that you're having sex with <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>unless you're involved in a long standing, mutually monogamous relationship. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>And I think that both routes are equally important, that there are large numbers of <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>persons who are bisexual. They don't wear signs or tags to identify themselves and <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>I.V. drug abusers. There are some I.V. drug abusers who are everyday addicts. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>There are some who experiment with I.V. drugs recreationally. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>And so you just don't know. The reality of the matter is for the District of Columbia, a <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>city that is 75 percent Black and minority, that we're faced with the reality that 11 <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>percent of the Black and minority community in this country that has AIDS are <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>heterosexually transmitted cases. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>So it's a significant issue for Blacks and minorities in particular. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>But I think also for all of America. <v Judy Woodruff>All right. Another clear message from this film is use condoms. <v Judy Woodruff>I mean, the message seems to be if you use condoms and you use them wisely,

<v Judy Woodruff>use them safely, then you're probably. <v Judy Woodruff>You probably don't have anything to worry about. Dr. Kaplan. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>Well, that's the one quarrel I have with this wonderful and moving film. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>No one knows the level of protection afforded by condom. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>But it's clearly nowhere near as good as the film makes <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>out. You know, Dave's Pa can't just go to bed not worrying that his son is <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>going to not get AIDS. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>There's not been a single study in real life, just test tube studies <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>that show that AIDS is really effectively <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>prevented by condoms. And in fact, the one small study is very alarming <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>and its implications, I think, is a very important place for condoms. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>But people have the right to know the real truth. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>Many people will choose condoms. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>But on the basis of informed real information, so I was worried about that. <v Judy Woodruff>Now, wait a minute. Are you saying that we really don't know how, how-? <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>No one knows, but it's nowhere close to 100 percent.

<v Judy Woodruff>All right, Dr. Dowdle, what's your experience? <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>Well, I think that's a very important point, that the message should be getting across, <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>that the condom may reduce risk, but it certainly doesn't eliminate risk. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>And that's a point to remember. <v Judy Woodruff>Well, what is a per-? I mean, what does someone do who is trying to make a decision <v Judy Woodruff>about this? <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>Well, I think that we've got to remember, though, that condoms, when used <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>effectively, when used properly, are a very effective way of preventing <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>the transfer information of semen into another person, regardless of whether a person be <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>a male or female. I think the point then what you do is your decision tree has to be <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>first that we would have to as as public health experts advise people not to <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>be involved in casual sexual relationships, but would encourage abstinence for younger <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>persons. And unless you are involved in a mutually monogamous relationship, then I mean, <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>that's the most appropriate way to go. The unfortunate reality is in America in today's <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>times that people are going to be sexually active. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>And if they're going to do that, then we would say at a minimum, never engage <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>in sexual activity with someone who's past history you do not know, who's antibody status

<v Dr. Reed Tuckson>you do not know. Unless you at least wear a condom and wear it properly, as <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>demonstrated in the film. That's not 100 percent, but it's certainly better than doing <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>nothing. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Kaplan-. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>You Implied that it's just in the semen. It's not. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>The, the virus particles and the infected cells are not just in the semen. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>Otherwise, a woman couldn't give it to a man, could they? <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>No it is certainly true. And I think that the film pointed out very well that the virus <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>is also in the vaginal secretions of the woman. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>And in saliva and who knows what else. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>And so while we say that that is not 100 percent, I just would not want anyone to get the <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>impression that, well, it doesn't make a difference whether I wear a condom or not. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>Of course, we would advocate that you avoid, that you practice safe, the safest sex <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>that you can and that would be sex that does not involve the transmission or sharing of <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>bodily fluid. I just don't want someone to say, well, the experts are saying that the <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>condoms not 100 percent effective. So if I'm not going to if I'm going to do nothing at <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>all, but it doesn't matter. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>I don't have to wear a condom either. That would be a very dangerous notion that I would <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>just want not to encourage [Dr. Kaplan: right.] that.

<v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>Right. <v Judy Woodruff>But under general circumstances, Dr. Dowdle. <v Judy Woodruff>How much should a person rely on a condom to protect one? <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>Well, I think that we're really talking about not changing the rules so much as <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>we are changing behavior. And I think that's first. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>That you've got to cut down the number of possible opportunities or the number of <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>exposures that one might have. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>And then what we are saying is that the condom is second best and <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>it's not 100 percent, but it is, as Reed has pointed out, it certainly is effective and <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>it's been shown to be effective. But it's not hundred percent effective at all. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>At all. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>It's nowhere near 100 percent. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>And I think if people got the right information, which they have a right to choose, <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>then many people correctly will choose a condom over abstinence or other forms <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>of safe practices. But people have to make up their mind on the <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>basis of accurate information. But I completely agree. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>It's certainly better than nothing. <v Judy Woodruff>In connection with that, I mean, the film also said early on that there are a number of <v Judy Woodruff>things that you don't have to worry about catching AIDS.

<v Judy Woodruff>Shaking hands with somebody, a casual kiss on the cheek, hello. <v Judy Woodruff>Drinking out of a glass. <v Judy Woodruff>Are these do any of you have a problem with this? I mean, or are any of these areas that <v Judy Woodruff>we should be worried about? <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>Well, I think we could say that there's absolutely no evidence that the AIDS virus has <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>been transmitted by any of the ways that were shown in the film. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>I think we would agree with that totally. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>The only comment I might have is that in our focus on AIDS <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>that we tend to forget other infectious diseases. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>And I think we don't recommend drinking out of the same glass simply because of the <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>common cold or other respiratory disease or other enteric diseases, for example. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>That would be the only comment I would have. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>I think that's a very important point. But I think it is also that the piece was useful <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>in that it demystifies some of this business about how AIDS is transmitted. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>I think it's very important to our society if we're going to be able to live rational <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>lives, that we also demystify some of the myths that that are available <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>and by touching the telephone buttons and that sort of thing. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>This is not the way this disease is spread.

<v Dr. Reed Tuckson>We as human beings cannot create an environment where we are not <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>able to shake hands with each other. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>That would be an unfortunate consequence of this epidemic. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>It would destroy what we are as people. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>And I think that's a very important myth that was demystified in the film. <v Judy Woodruff>As all of you know, and just carrying this whole question of abstinence a little bit <v Judy Woodruff>further. There are conservatives, political conservatives in our society who argue <v Judy Woodruff>absolutely abstinence and but but even more important than that, this is <v Judy Woodruff>a moral issue. The film, of course, said it. <v Judy Woodruff>You know, this is a health issue. <v Judy Woodruff>Their argument is and this is some part of our society. <v Judy Woodruff>Their argument is this is a society has committed a terrible sin. <v Judy Woodruff>There's a segment of our society and and these people are being paid back. <v Judy Woodruff>I mean, is there you know, what do you say to that argument, Dr. Kaplan? <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>Well, I certainly don't think it's a moral issue in terms of whether you're gay or <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>straight or monogamous or not. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>But there's a deeper moral issue involved. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>You should do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

<v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>And if you've been exposed, it really is your moral obligation, I think, <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>to have yourself tested and cleared before you make love to anyone or you can kill <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>your wife or your sweetheart. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>Doctor, I think that's an important issue. I think when we talk about the morality <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>issues. AIDS is such a. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>Brings to us such a variety of choices and decisions that have to be made. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>We certainly don't think. I think she was very correct in saying this is not any- the <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>morality about your your sexual behavior and how you define yourself. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>But it's a morality around your your personal decision making and your responsibility to <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>others. I am very concerned as a Black physician that 70 percent of all the women. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>AIDS are Black and minority, and that 80 percent of all the children with AIDS are Black <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>and minority. That makes a very real moral imperative, I think, for Black <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>males and their behavior. And Black women about their behavior. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>Women of childbearing age, I think, have a specific ethical, moral, human <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>responsibility to understand the consequences of their behavior and to <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>know that they need to know their antibody status before they make a conscious or an

<v Dr. Reed Tuckson>unconscious decision to conceive a child. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>Those are very real issues that have to do with personal responsibility and the <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>consequences of our decisions. And so I don't think that it is a conservative or a <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>liberal argument. It is a human argument. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Dowdle, what about from your perspective? <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>I think that, too. I don't know that I could add much to the moral issue except to say <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>that it's also a biologic issue in that as you give the <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>virus the opportunity for transmission, then, of course, you're increasing the number of <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>cases that may occur. And this can be consciously avoided. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>The virus doesn't jump. The virus is actually transmitted through a conscious decision on <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>the part of two individuals through a sexual act. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>That's a biologic decision, its simply an opportunity for transmission of the virus. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>Reid made an [Judy: Dr. Kaplan] important statement when he said you have to know your <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>AIDS status. But the only way you know your AIDS status is if you know your drug and <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>sexual history. And if you're not sure, the only way to know is with testing. <v Judy Woodruff>We should point out here and I want to refer back to the film for a moment before we

<v Judy Woodruff>conclude that Geoffrey Schuessler, who was the AIDS victim, who had been an I.V. <v Judy Woodruff>drug user but had not been using drugs for five years, died in early October. <v Judy Woodruff>So there there certainly is, as we know, a continuing, <v Judy Woodruff>tragic, very, very tragic side to this disease. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Dowdle, I want to turn to you as we begin to conclude this <v Judy Woodruff>with a question. What is the hope for the future? <v Judy Woodruff>I mean, what do we- do we just assume that this is something that it's going to be years <v Judy Woodruff>before we find a cure for, a vaccine for? <v Judy Woodruff>I mean, what realistically, from a scientific community's perspective, <v Judy Woodruff>can we hope for? <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>Well, as far as the vaccine, the there's a tremendous amount of work that is <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>being done now, and we've gone a long way, but we still have a long way to go if <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>and when and if we ever have a vaccine. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>For drugs there's always a possibility that we can develop better drugs that may <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>ameliorate or prolong life. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>But as far as the epidemic itself, we have to keep in mind we can't prevent AIDS.

<v Dr. Walter Dowdle>AIDS is preventable. We've certainly seen that from the film and we've talked about it <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>here. We also have to recognize that AIDS in the heterosexual community will <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>spread very slowly. It's not going to overtake the US in a very short <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>period of time because-. <v Judy Woodruff>What do you mean by very slowly? <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>It will spread much more slowly, most probably, than we've seen in the early <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>spread in the homosexual population, I.V. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>drug abuse population. By spreading slowly, it means that we have an opportunity to <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>change behavior and an opportunity to intervene. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>So that's an important point in prevention. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>We need to prevent it before it occurs, not after it occurs. <v Judy Woodruff>And so the bottom line is we don't sit around and wait for a cure before we... <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Tuckson <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>Exactly. I think the unfortunate reality is we better geared ourselves for <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>this reality is that this is a long run problem. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>There will be no short solutions. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>There'll be no magic bullet that will happen in the next year or two that we are in this <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>for the next many years. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>And we better realize that we're going to have to change our behavior, that we can keep <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>this virus from spreading quickly if we just simply do the things that this

<v Dr. Reed Tuckson>program has already told folks they need to do. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>But that's for years and years and years. <v Judy Woodruff>But, Dr. Kaplan, neither should one go away from this film and say, well, <v Judy Woodruff>I don't have anything to be worried about either. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>Not at all. It's like being in calm water. <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>And you see that tidal wave just about to hit the beach, but don't <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>put down prevention. We were able to buy public education, <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>reduce the risk of cardiovascular heart attacks and strokes <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>by something like 60 percent. Just by when I say just <v Dr. Helen S. Kaplan>just by educational efforts of programs such as this can save many lives. <v Judy Woodruff>Well, I think that's a good note to end on. We thank you all for being with us, Dr. Helen <v Judy Woodruff>Singer Kaplan. Thank you, Dr. Reed Tuckson and Dr. Walt Dowdle. <v Judy Woodruff>Thank you all. The war against AIDS began in the laboratory <v Judy Woodruff>and is now moved into the classrooms. <v Judy Woodruff>We have said many times tonight, knowing the facts about AIDS and what to do <v Judy Woodruff>is the key to prevention. Students of all ages are now beginning to get

<v Judy Woodruff>that message. And educators aren't mincing their words. <v speaker 6>For those of you who do plan to be sexually active, you gotta <v speaker 6>practice safer sexual practices. <v speaker 6>We're not talking about safe sex. <v speaker 6>We're talking about safer sex. <v Judy Woodruff>A new part of the college curriculum. <v Judy Woodruff>AIDS education. On some campuses, students aren't only getting lectures, <v Judy Woodruff>they're getting free condoms. <v speaker 6>It's the responsibility of all of you all. <v speaker 6>It's not hard to find condoms. We have them free at the health center. <v speaker 6>Many of your R.A.s And R.D.s have them. <v speaker 6>They sell them in the bookstore. <v speaker 6>[laughter] They're giving them out. <v Judy Woodruff>Most high schools aren't giving away condoms. <v Judy Woodruff>But students are learning that condoms are a good way to prevent pregnancy <v Judy Woodruff>and AIDS. <v teacher>What does it do? How does it keep those germs from getting through? <v Speaker>[people talking at the same time] <v teacher>We need to [inaudible] say it again.

<v student>It Stops sperm cells from going into the girl's vagina or something. <v teacher>Ah, it stops sperm cells from going into the girl's vagina. <v teacher>So it acts as a birth control device in that way. <v teacher>But how does it stop the STDs, or the AIDS virus from getting <v teacher>from the woman to the man or the man to the woman. <v student>It covers it. <v Judy Woodruff>AIDS education, goes on outside the classroom, too. <v Judy Woodruff>At a Washington, D.C. street fair. <v Judy Woodruff>The health department set up an information booth. <v health dept worker>Maybe some success of life prolonguing or extending <v health dept worker>life, but nothing documented medically. <v Samuel Perry, M.D.>It's hard to talk frankly to kids about sex, particularly one's own children. <v Judy Woodruff>Public service announcements about AIDS are now on TV. <v Judy Woodruff>This one from the federal government. <v Samuel Perry, M.D.>They must protect themselves against being infected by this virus. <v commercial narrator>AIDS is a fatal disease. <v commercial narrator>It's also preventable. <v commercial narrator>Know the facts about AIDS. Know how to protect yourself and your family.

<v commercial narrator>Tell others. For answers to your questions about AIDS, call one 800 340 <v commercial narrator>AIDS. <v Judy Woodruff>Even Miss America is talking about AIDS prevention. <v Judy Woodruff>It's not surprising. She's also a nurse and has taken care of many <v Judy Woodruff>AIDS patients. <v Miss America>It is scary, but I have gone up to patients and held their hands <v Miss America>without wearing gloves. I think we need to grab hold of the situation and start <v Miss America>working on it. This isn't anything that's a fly by night. <v Miss America>This is important. This is affecting everyone. <v Judy Woodruff>With me in the studio now to discuss public information and education campaigns <v Judy Woodruff>about AIDS are Dr David Fraser, an epidemiologist <v Judy Woodruff>and the president of Swarthmore College in Pennsylvania. <v Judy Woodruff>And once again, Dr. Walter Dowdle, deputy director of the federal Centers for <v Judy Woodruff>Disease Control, and Dr. Reed Tuckson, commissioner of public <v Judy Woodruff>health in the District of Columbia.

<v Judy Woodruff>Once again, thank you all for being with us. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Fraser, since you're the new one here, I'm going to begin with you. <v Judy Woodruff>How much of these public education student education campaigns are getting <v Judy Woodruff>through? <v Dr. David Fraser>Well, I think it's we have a mixed situation. <v Dr. David Fraser>Some schools are doing a good job being quite <v Dr. David Fraser>forward-thinking. And in bringing the message to students and others just aren't doing <v Dr. David Fraser>much. <v Judy Woodruff>How do you I mean, how do you measure that? I mean, do you is there. <v Judy Woodruff>Is there any sort of ongoing survey underway? <v Judy Woodruff>Do you as educators talk to one another? <v Dr. David Fraser>I certainly talk with other college presidents about what they're doing at their <v Dr. David Fraser>colleges. I think most schools have a program where there may be <v Dr. David Fraser>a speaker coming in in the fall to talk about AIDS and students are invited to come hear <v Dr. David Fraser>it. But colleges are now trying to be more aggressive in <v Dr. David Fraser>having more occasions when students can hear about AIDS, can can talk with others <v Dr. David Fraser>about the questions they have about how to keep from becoming infected. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Dowdle, what's your experience? How much of this is actually getting through to the <v Judy Woodruff>young people we're aiming at?

<v Dr. Walter Dowdle>Well, I think in every situation like this, and particularly in AIDS, there's always a <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>learning curve. So the learning curve is not only with the students, but the learning <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>curve is also with the universities and understanding the need to get this type of <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>information across. It's coming. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>Same is true not only with the universities, but also in the primary grades as well. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Tuckson, District of Columbia. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>Well, I would think, first of all, these efforts are still fairly new. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>I think that it's important that it's it's an important trend that's occurring. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>I think we had great leadership from Swarthmore and American University in particular to <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>try to let's face these issues, quite frankly, because we know that that college age <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>students are people that are have a history of experimenting at this point in their life <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>with their sexual behavior. And it's very important to reach them. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>But I think that these programs a little a little too early to analyze. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>The principal, though, I think also is, is that we've got to be much more skilled in how <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>we get the message out. It is the medium of television and radio. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>The public, the advertising agencies in this country have very, very refined <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>technological skills at using symbols and images to present a concept <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>and a message. What I think the public health community needs in ever greater detail

<v Dr. Reed Tuckson>is access to that technology so that the messages that we get out, we get out and <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>creative and innovative ways. <v Judy Woodruff>You mean ads that catch people's attention? <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>Exactly. I mean, there is a science and- of that business and Madison Avenue does a <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>wonderful job. The public health community needs access to that technology. <v Judy Woodruff>All right. Dr. Fraser, let's talk about the way you're getting the message out now. <v Judy Woodruff>Now, Swarthmore puts out information as a kit, something information, something like this <v Judy Woodruff>to your freshmen before they arrive on campus. <v Judy Woodruff>You have somewhat more controversial kinds of information, such as this kit, <v Judy Woodruff>the sex kit that's given out, or sex information kit that's given out to students <v Judy Woodruff>at Dartmouth. That actually includes a condom in here. <v Judy Woodruff>How do you know what is too much to tell students? <v Judy Woodruff>I mean, where we. How much do you know what to say? <v Dr. David Fraser>I think it's very hard for there to for us to tell too much to students. <v Dr. David Fraser>What what we found at Swarthmore is that it's helpful to send out some <v Dr. David Fraser>information in a brochure before students arrive. <v Dr. David Fraser>And then in the first week, they're there to begin to have sessions in the dormitory <v Dr. David Fraser>where we have student trained student counselors who bring

<v Dr. David Fraser>a videotape that that's a useful starting point for discussion. <v Dr. David Fraser>Gather people in a hall for for an hour or two hours, depending on <v Dr. David Fraser>how long the discussion might go to open up the issue of AIDS and have people begin <v Dr. David Fraser>to to debate what what their worries are about AIDS, what <v Dr. David Fraser>they ought to do, what their responsibilities are to other people unless we shift <v Dr. David Fraser>the responsibility to the individual. <v Dr. David Fraser>We haven't done our job. We won't be effective. <v Dr. David Fraser>And we we will run counter to the whole purpose of of colleges, which <v Dr. David Fraser>is to give that responsibility. <v Judy Woodruff>What do you say to parents who say, my goodness, my kid goes off to school and you're <v Judy Woodruff>giving him or her a condom or you're making condoms available, which I understand <v Judy Woodruff>you do at Swarthmore? What? How do you what do you say to those parents? <v Dr. David Fraser>We've moved from having condoms available in the student health center where they can <v Dr. David Fraser>be purchased at a at a low rate to having them available in the <v Dr. David Fraser>dormitories, in medicine cabinets, in the dormitories. <v Dr. David Fraser>Parents have to adjust to their students going away to college.

<v Dr. David Fraser>Parents learn a great deal about themselves and about their their children when they go <v Dr. David Fraser>to college, that the students are ready to learn <v Dr. David Fraser>this information. It's helpful to them. <v Judy Woodruff>How do you know you're not encouraging them to have sex, dr. <v Judy Woodruff>Dowdle? I mean, you know, from your perspective. <v Judy Woodruff>What? <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>Well, it's a-. <v Judy Woodruff>Do you think you can give too much information, I guess is the question? <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>Well, it's a very delicate balance, there's no question about it. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>And I think that on one hand, certainly we have to reassure not <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>only students, but anyone that we're trying to get the information out to reassure that <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>you don't have to get AIDS, you don't have to get the virus. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>Second is we also have to balance that with a certain amount of fear. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>I mean, you've got to understand how serious this disease is and what the consequences <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>are. And then the whole thing is balanced, or at least as is moves on, what <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>we would feel are are the facts and getting out the facts. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>And I don't think that there are too many facts that we can get out for the students. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>That's what we have to keep hammering on. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>There's two things that are that are important here. First is that prior to the onset of <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>these kinds of campaigns, s- college students were sexually active.

<v Dr. Reed Tuckson>I mean, they were getting the message or their behavior was informed prior to these <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>sorts of programs. If anything, these programs would perhaps serve as a break <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>as as a as a as a holding back of some of that sort of behavior, because it would it <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>would it would bring these issues out into the open, I think. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>And so I think that's just a very, very important point. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>These programs do not encourage this behavior has been going on on college campuses. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>I mean, for years. <v Judy Woodruff>All right. But how many schools have this sort of sophisticated program, <v Judy Woodruff>such as Swarthmore, Dartmouth? I mean, does anybody want to guess? <v Judy Woodruff>I guess there's not a there's no survey that's been done. <v Judy Woodruff>And what about the young people who aren't going to college? <v Judy Woodruff>I mean, how do you how do you get the word? <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>Well, that's that's even more difficult opportunity, because the college campus students <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>are persons by definition, who are willing to explore issues and are going to be, we <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>would think, much more thoughtful and also more responsible about some of the choices <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>that they make. These are people that are that are willing to spend the time studying. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>I have a very real concern for those young people whose behavior is not as well <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>disciplined and whose choices and decisions aren't aren't as acceptable as I

<v Dr. Reed Tuckson>would like. And so what that means is that we have to get the word to those young people <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>in more innovative ways. As an example, the commercials that are made for, for <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>tennis shoes and sportswear commercials that are made for malt liquor. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>I think it's those sorts of opportunities that need to be brought into the fight against <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>against AIDS. I think also it is going into that shooting gallery where drug addicts are <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>taking your information to the streets, as we saw in the earlier segment. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>I think we have to go where people are and be very, very aggressive. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Fraser, what what is the appropriate age to begin telling <v Judy Woodruff>young people about AIDS? <v Dr. David Fraser>I think probably junior high school that that's a time when <v Dr. David Fraser>when sexual activity. <v Judy Woodruff>Eighth grade, ninth grade. <v Dr. David Fraser>Probably eighth grade. Seventh grade, I think ninth grade. <v Dr. David Fraser>Maybe a little late. <v Judy Woodruff>What do you say to those parents that are sitting there like oh, my goodness. <v Judy Woodruff>You know, you're gonna tell my kid all this explicit sex sex <v Judy Woodruff>information.

<v Dr. David Fraser>One grades the information according to the age, the age of the student. <v Dr. David Fraser>One one. It goes into much more detail in junior to juniors and seniors <v Dr. David Fraser>in high school or freshman in college than one does with seventh or eighth graders. <v Dr. David Fraser>But the seventh graders already are hearing about AIDS. <v Dr. David Fraser>They they know there's something there that they should worry about. <v Dr. David Fraser>Well, you have to be able to cha, cha, channeled their anxiety and focus their <v Dr. David Fraser>their behavior in such a way as to be responsible. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>But I think you also have to bring the parents into this. That's the other point, is that <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>parents have to sit down and learn to discuss these issues with their children. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>We know their parents have some anxiety about talking about sexual issues with their <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>children. But just as the commercial that says you pay me now or pay me later, you've <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>got to be able to bring the parent in. The college cannot take the role of parent. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>The state cannot take the role of the parent. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>Parents have to accept their responsibility to sit and have very frank, candid <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>discussions with their children if they want to save their children's lives. <v Judy Woodruff>This is a very controversial subject and in so many ways. <v Judy Woodruff>But Dr. Dowdle, is the federal government doing enough, do you think at this point, to <v Judy Woodruff>get the word out to those segments of society, really everybody who needs

<v Judy Woodruff>to know about AIDS? <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>Well, I think we have to realize that the whole information education program and <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>the whole business of reducing risk is not just what you might see on <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>television or might see an ad in a newspaper or magazine. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>That's an important part of it, because it creates the atmosphere or creates the <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>environment that makes other programs worthwhile and makes them <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>successful. So what we are supporting is always from one on one counseling <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>all the way up to the public service announcements, which you see on television. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>Now we're all learning and there are, I'm sure, are better ways in which to couch <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>the message and better ways to get this done. <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>We also have to recognize that whereas we have at least a program at the national level, <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>but we also have to consider that at the local level there are different needs and <v Dr. Walter Dowdle>different ideas. And that has to be done, as Reed has already said-. <v Judy Woodruff>A city like Houston, may have different needs from-. <v Judy Woodruff>Quickly, gentlemen, what needs to be done now? <v Judy Woodruff>I mean, what what is what do we need? And Dr. Fraser to get the message out to those <v Judy Woodruff>people who need to hear it?

<v Dr. David Fraser>Well, I think at the college level, we need every college to <v Dr. David Fraser>to provide multiple opportunities in the first year of <v Dr. David Fraser>college for students to, to hear the facts about AIDS and what they must do about <v Dr. David Fraser>that, to change their behavior, to lower their risk. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Tuckson. <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>At the local level, grassroots community based organizations need to be empowered to do <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>their job effectively in order to make this the priority of the work that they do and the <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>responsibility of the national and state governments to allow community based grassroots <v Dr. Reed Tuckson>organizations to do their work. <v Judy Woodruff>Well, it's a cliche, gentlemen, but clearly it's it's we've got our work cut out for us. <v Judy Woodruff>Once again, let me say thank you. Dr. Reed Tuckson, thank you for being with us. <v Judy Woodruff>Dr. Fraser, thank you so much. <v Judy Woodruff>And Dr. Walt Dowdle, thank you all very much for joining us. <v Judy Woodruff>After seeing this program, you may have additional you probably will have additional <v Judy Woodruff>questions about AIDS and the Centers for Disease Control has a hotline, <v Judy Woodruff>and it should be helpful to you. This toll free number is one <v Judy Woodruff>800 three four two a i.

<v Judy Woodruff>D. S three for two AIDS. <v Judy Woodruff>Many communities also have local information lines of their own. <v Judy Woodruff>The easiest way to get those numbers is to check your phone book or to check with your <v Judy Woodruff>community health department. On behalf of all the guests who've been with us this <v Judy Woodruff>evening. Thank you for joining us. <v Judy Woodruff>We hope this program has been helpful to you. <v Judy Woodruff>I'm Judy Woodruff. Good night. <v announcer>Funding for this program has been made possible by this and other public television

<v announcer>stations. For a transcript of this program, send four dollars <v announcer>to AIDS. <v announcer>Changing the rules. P.O. <v announcer>Box seven oh one. <v announcer>Kent, Ohio, four four two four oh. <v announcer>To order a videocassette of this program for educational purposes, <v announcer>call one 800 eight four five 3000 <v announcer>or write to WETA Educational Activities, Box <v announcer>two six two six, Washington, D.C., two oh oh one three. <v Speaker>[PBS music]