Bilingualism In America: A Radio Presentation of the Humanities; No. 2

The Humanities Ethics, literature, criticism of the arts History, archaeology, philosophy and language The When nation, indivisible, in which by many cultures, but united by a single tongue. Cuban Americans come here. They're involved here. They're becoming Americans here. They haven't lost the Cuban flavor. They still speak Spanish, but they're learning English and melding in with American society. Mexicans, many of them are coming here,

not for political persecution, but rather for economic opportunity. And they say, well, as soon as I get into money, I'm going to go back to Mexico. Can American society tolerate that? I suggest we ought to have a plaque or a sign saying, welcome to the United States. We don't speak your language. We're the only nation on the face of the earth where you can go through great school, high school college, get a PhD, never have a year of a foreign language. That era has to end. This is bilingualism in America, a radio presentation of the humanities. By linguism, the speaking of more than one language, is as much a part of our history as is our common language, English. To some, this represents a problem, even a crisis, but to others, it represents a major opportunity. What is at stake is our sense of the future,

of what this country will be like in 20 years. Check this out. They call us aliens, like San Francisco is a Scandinavian name, I presume. Who Rodriguez, actor, comedian? Yeah, like, like Los Angeles is supposed to be like a Norwegian, I suppose. But why people know we're no aliens, they know history, they wrote it. And history, history says that at one time, Mexico used to own all of this land, all of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado. Yeah, we owned all this land, but we said, Orale, what the hell we need all this land for a month.

We tend to forget that the Mexican immigrants, the first Mexican immigrants really didn't come to the United States, the United States came to them in this war that we call the Mexican war, but that Mexicans call the North American invasion. Dr. David Weber, professor of history, Southern Methodist University, Dallas, Texas. The area that was conquered amounts to the present day Southwest, but not simply the border states, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, but also half of Colorado, Utah, Nevada, that that much of the American West and was won in the war. There are many Americans probably listening to us who really haven't almost any sense that, you know, for example, at the Western part of the United States was ever Mexico. Richard Rodriguez, author of hunger of memory. That's 100 years ago, and that's a long time in the American countries and it's for us for the Hispanic. The past is everything, and it becomes this extraordinary

preoccupation. The two cultures, I think, are profoundly different in that way. The Hispanic is brooding, always remembering, obsessed by memory, and the Anglo-Culture, this Protestant Puritan culture, is quite capable of believing it in some way, the past is disposable. If I think back on my own life, you know, in some way, my own, my own difficulty in America has always been because I was torn between those two cultural impulses. In cultural terms, it may be a wonderfully refreshing thing, too, that in this part of the country that there should be such strong Mexican influence. And the Southwest has had this unique Mexican heritage, which has also reached out to embrace many Anglo-Americans who live in Adobe houses, who enjoy Mexican food, who travel widely in Mexico and in Latin America, who speak Spanish themselves. I think here, we have the possibility of a great deal of cross-fertilization. I don't think that we can say that we're a fully matured society along the border. I think we are a society in the process of

maturing. And once we become mature, we will be literate in both languages. As we become literate in both languages, we will appreciate both cultures. And as we appreciate both cultures, we'll have peace. Unfortunately, that's down the road. Willie Velasquez, Southwest Voter Registration Education Project, San Antonio, Texas. When you come now to Miami, and you don't speak Spanish, if I go to Florida, I feel I go to come to a foreign country. What do you think it is that people may not be learning English? Because they don't in the mainland. They're left like in their groups together, and they really don't go out and try enough. They have to do what they will do. I know people came here with different language. They went and really learned the language. But if you don't have to, you don't do. That's even, we all like this, aren't we? You go through like Garden Grove, and you can't read a damn sign in there. And I'm, you know, I speak English. This is my country. I'm all for anybody coming over to the country. But I think, you know, they should come over and

fit in with what's going on here rather than, you know, being segregated and keeping themselves segregated from everybody else. Why is it that linguistic diversity is so suspect? Viewed is so problematic that we could have now a mass organization and mass organization dedicated to the eradication of bilingualism in the United States. Dr. Fishman, sociologist of language, Yeshiva University, New York. We respect and admire diversity and various other fields for the lay public bilingual means ethno-cultural diversity. Bilingual means ethno-cultural conflict. Bilingual means ethno-cultural politicization. Bilingual means ethno-cultural social turmoil. Assemblyman Hill of California. I think we see a potential where if you live in a certain part of California, that you won't be able to go in and understand the signs on the freeway.

You won't be able to talk to the telephone operator or talk to the emergency room physician. The newspapers and the menus will all be in a different tongue and I don't think that serves anybody's purpose as well. You know, this country was founded on the concept of a whole diverse societies coming together and the whole melting pot concept is something that we need to cherish and to encourage. The melting pot only works as long as we have that common meeting ground and that's English. It's hard to predict, but I think if we just go on and ignore the issue altogether and just permit the encroachment of another language and the displacement of English in a quasi-official way, I think we'll see what we have seen in Canada, what we have seen in other countries. Gurda Bielis, Executive Director of U.S. English. We are going to lose the social cohesiveness that we need to have a sense of shared destiny. Dr. James Cummins, Canadian

language researcher. The idea that a lot of people have that Canada and Belgium and other countries are divided and that their separatist movements in these countries as a result of vandalism is very far from the truth. Dr. Fishman, in Quebec, the majority of the people were always Francophone. They were always French-speaking and they did not control their own schools, they did not control their own industry, they did not control their own lives. And finally, the 90% of the people that were controlled by 10% of the people voted themselves into power. And by the way, they teach all their children English in Quebec. That is, the Francophone's teach all their children English too. And the popular sentiment for separatism has decreased considerably as a result of the achievements that Francophone's have made. But to attribute

any of this separate sentiment in the past to bilingualism just totally misunderstands the reality of Canada. But in the United States, there's no comparison that kind of all was just looking for ghosts and being afraid of ghosts under the bed. And anyone who sees social conflict there and who sees it as a result of bilingual education is barking up the wrong tree. Well, I have been through meetings of bilingual education teachers and honest to guys, there is enormous push for separatism there. Dr. S.I. Hayakawa, former United States Senator from California and founder of U.S. English. But it distresses us to have one group believe themselves apart and say we don't want to become a part of that society. But we want all the benefits of that society and we want to use the tax payers money in that society to keep our separateness. First, I do not favor bilingual education as a vehicle toward creating an officially bilingual society. I think that that is not what most Americans,

Hispanic or otherwise, would want. Henry Cisneros, Mayor of San Antonio. I believe in bilingual education as a way to help young people master their own potential and the process of education. But they must acquire a functioning English to be productive members of the society. That is a fact and will not change either here or anywhere else in the country in the foreseeable future. The official language of this city, of course, is English. Our official business is handled in English. All our statutory procedures. There is no sense here at all of either the kind of official bilingualism that was considered in Miami or of any separatist kind of considerations, such as occurring Quebec. I don't, I think those are red hearings. They are false. They have no place in a responsible discussion in this city. They're simply not serious matters. Dr. Joe Bernal, school principal, Texas. I maintain that there is nothing that any of us would do

in the bilingual field that would take away from the child being loyal to country or loyal to the United States or loyal to the precepts of America, you know, of this great democracy has nothing to do with it. Now, I will tell you that there is respect for those who are Spanish speakers. We have one of the more united cities, in fact, in the country. Here, there is a richness that is celebrated, a kind of cultural ambience that has become an economic asset. Some people say that this, the motivation behind this initiative is fueled by a lot of prejudice against immigrants that are coming into this country. Do you think there's any truth to that? I'm not sure if that's the reason behind this initiative. Even if it is the reason behind the initiative, I think what the initiative will do, and that's forced people to learn English,

will be beneficial. So, if the means is that they hate people who don't speak English, I think the end result will be all right. I am not anti-in race. I am totally unprejudiced. I like all races. I just believe that all the children should learn to speak our language because it would benefit them in the long run. I think if people learn the language to learn to speak and write the language, they are more patriotic and they are more dependable. We need a lot of people who should be dependable. We don't want to lose the multifaceted, the multilingual history. We don't want to lose that, but on the other hand, we cannot let that serve as a divisive element to keep us apart, segregated, so that discrimination, hatred, suspicion, bigotry has a grounds of breeding. With a common language, we can try to prevent that kind of thing. Guard up the Calis. Well, the danger is that you take a child who's new to the country

and segregate that child and keep that child apart from his American peers. And that is a gap that you may never be able to fill at all. If you look at the literature of bilingual education, you see that the demand is for something that goes on somewhere between four and seven years in order to make the transition. Well, you take a child who comes here perhaps at the age of six or seven or eight, take four to seven years to transfer this child into an American regular standard classroom. And what have you gained even if the child has ultimately learned English and has indeed retained his first language? What have you gained? You will have an English-speaking stranger in your midst. You won't have an American shot. In criticism for bilingual education programs and the length of these programs,

U.S. English makes the same error in presenting the length of time in which kids participate in bilingual education programs. It's erroneous, it's wrong, it's a lie. Dr. Jose Cardinas, director of the Intercultural Development and Research Association, San Antonio, Texas. Now, I'll show you the reason why such arguments are presented by U.S. English, namely that you have bilingual education in the programs in this country, easily from the first to the sixth grade, and in some rare cases even from the first to the 12th grade. This does not mean that any one kid stays in the program for six years. A kid in the first grade goes in in the first grade and probably comes out at the end of the first grade or the second grade. Or, but a kid in the fifth grade level would go into the bilingual program with the fifth grade and probably exit at the sixth grade level. But the way that this data is presented by U.S. English, you get the impression that a kid enters the bilingual program at the first grade and next it's at the sixth grade level and it is just not so. In fact, the mistakes are made

on the exiting of kids. They are on premature exiting. They tend to take them out too quickly. Dr. Gloria Zamora, former president of the National Association of Bilingual Education, where we have negative attitudes towards bilingualism, where we have the attitude, well, we're going to put up with this program. But believe me, we're going to move those children into English as rapidly as possible. Those are subtractive bilingualism programs. The goal is not to add a language. It's to take it away. Those negative attitudes perpetrated by adults who do not understand bilingual education or do not value bilingualism have very negative impacts on children. I totally reject that concept. I think that they ought to do everything they want to to maintain that cultural language. They want to maintain that heritage. Want to maintain that. Those societal peculiarities. That's terrific. But I reject the notion that we need to do that through the

public education system, that we need to do that through public tech support of dollars. Assemblyman Hill of California. Whatever they want to do to encourage that on their own, that's terrific. And I hope that they do that. But I cannot go make the next step and to say that that is something that society through a public supported tax dollars ought to condone. I see it also in my children who was very far more remote for my own cultural background than I am. And I regret that. And I really should have taken more trouble to teach them the traditions and the customs and the language. But I didn't. It was my choice. I'm sorry I didn't really. But I would never have expected the school to do that for me, nor should the school do it for anyone else. If you care enough about it, then you'll do it for your children. Nobel Epstein, publisher of the Washington monthly. Why should the federal government maintain the ethnic identity of Hispanic Americans, but not black Americans, Jewish Americans,

Armenian Americans, Arab Americans, Italian Americans, Greek Americans, and every other group in America. Why? While I agree that the home is the primary bearer and pester on of the culture and language, I think that unless the important institutions in the lives of people validate the culture and the language, that then it remains only something that we do at home, but we don't do it out in the general public. However, we may feel about the bilingual issue. One thing is certain. The political debate has obscured the personal story that lies behind it. The conflict of identity that rests in the demand for assimilation on the one hand, and the desire to maintain one's language and culture on the other. Dr. Cardinus. Well, I think that's a very strong message being given to the kids continuously. Actually,

two messages, one of them, that they're too stupid to be able to handle two languages. The other message is that it is, for some reason, undesirable to speak a language other than English. And, of course, a kid that does speak a language other than English feels inferior, has guilt feelings about using that language, has tremendous emotional problems and respect to his peers, to his family, to his community. It sometimes happens that not only are people from the dominant culture antagonistic towards vandalism or other ethnicities, sometimes with people from within, as in minorities, also feel ambivalent or antagonistic about attempts to reinforce that culture. Dr. James Cummins. And it's somewhat sad to see this, because what's happened is that these same people who are very often successful people have internalized the message that the dominant culture has given them. And it's a message that

says you've got to throw off your ass or your identity, you've got to throw off your language if you want to make it in this society. There are those in white America who would annoy me to play out for them some drama of ancestral reconciliation. Richard Rodriguez. As tech ruins hold for me no special interest. I do not search Mexican graveyard for ties to unamable ancestors. What preoccupies me is immediate. The separation I endure with my parents and loss. This is what matters to me. The story of the scholarship boy who returns home when summer from college to discover bewildering silence facing his parents. This is my story, an American story. I am very proud of my ancestral language and my ancestral countries more than one. And that's me. That makes me glorious somewhat of what I am. For me to have to deny that, I think is a devastating thing to me personally as a human being. Dr. Bernal.

And I maintain that there is a tremendous amount of beauty when you can take the southwestern United States and it's happening in New York. I'm sure with Puerto Ricans and in Florida with Cuba that the people that live in this area could understand both cultures and both languages. I think we have a great thing to offer America. And maybe some of the people that do oppose bilingual education is because they have never felt that and because it's not only a language, it's a feeling for people. And it is that feeling for people that I don't want our children to lose on either side of that bicultural and bilingual fence. In other words, I don't want them to hate having been Hispanics as our background. And I surely would not want them to hate anything that would be American. Assemblyman Hill of California. We certainly don't want to attack anybody's heritage or to discourage people from maintaining their ability to speak Spanish or to maintain their culture

and their cultural heritage. We don't want to attack that process at all. I mean, after all, that's part of what the United States is all about. What concerns us is the tendency towards biculturalism. It is obviously crucial to stress that multilingualism is good for the middle class by lingualism in the service of government, by lingualism in the service of business, by lingualism in the service of industry because we must convince the country that is in the national interest as currently understood. This being the only approach to take the middle class that wants to know about everything else. What's in it for me? Me, Dr. Hayakawa of U.S. English. If you met by bilingual education, teaching as many people as possible Spanish, pushing the Spanish language in Anglo high schools, that's really bilingual education that really would contribute to

the well-being of all the citizens of California. It'll contribute to well-being of Mexicans. It'll contribute to the well-being of Mexican-American relations right down in the future. But insofar as the politicians pushed for Hispanic language and culture at the expense of, they're becoming good Americans, then they're going to be complex here. Yes, I indeed wish it were for everyone. That would be the true bilingual education. In fact, I believe that the national law is very careful to state that up to 40 percent English-speaking children may participate in a bilingual program. I am rather proud that my own state in New York has just come forth with a million dollars, which is little enough, of course, for 10 experimental programs, Dr. Fishman, and something brand new never heard of before. It's called two-way bilingual education. It brings together either Spanish mother tongue children or Chinese mother tongue children with

English mother tongue children throughout the school day and in all school subjects, some subjects being taught by language A and some subjects being taught in language B to all the children in the class. These programs are in trouble. Their trouble is that they do not have sufficient room to admit all the middle class Anglo pupils whose parents want in. Now, that's good trouble. Dr. Gloria Zamora, I wish with all my heart that we could move to implement additive bilingual education programs for all of the children in this country. Additive means you come with whatever language you come and we will validate that language and we will help you to maintain that language, but we will also help you to add another one.

You see, that's bilingual education. The additive bilingualism programs all over the world are very successful. Why do we in the United States want to continue to be the only deprived nation in the world? Carmen Perez, Chief Bureau of Bilingual Education, State of New York. The English proficient parents are the ones really carrying those banners and waving them, writing to me continuously. I do want my son, my daughter. I want them in this program. This is a wonderful thing that is happening and they're not saying I don't want the kid in that quote, that bilingual program. Once we have gotten the English proficient parents involved in these programs, they are our biggest advocates. They want me to go in and see. I get the letters and it's just delightful the kind of response that we have. It's turning around whole school districts. Culver City, California has had an additive bilingualism program for many years. That example,

that program in Culver City, California is very well documented by UCLA. In Milwaukee, Wisconsin, we have the Polish English, German, English, Spanish, English programs. Again, excellent programs, very well supported by the community. In Tucson, Arizona, we have an outstanding school, the Davis bilingual school. You have black children, brown children, and white children all coming to school, learning English and Spanish. The parents enroll their children in that school when the children are one or two years old so that they can have a space in that school. May your Henry Cisneros of San Antonio, Texas. And then in the final analysis, I guess I would ask you, what is the alternative to deny people a role in the society who are themselves Spanish speakers to force them to subjugate culture and in the process, subjugate personality, political involvement. I think that's a very high price to pay for imagined divisions that in fact in practice don't exist.

This program, bilingualism in America, part two, was produced by Santiago Casal, of Onidad Productions. Major funding for this series was provided by the California Council for the Humanities. We see English as the fundamental tie between citizens of many different backgrounds and it is so precious, it is so fundamental that we really don't dare to experiment very much with alternative linguistic practices. This is a new era of change and those who understand other languages and those who can relate to the world on its terms as opposed to trying to impose our own values, those who understand the way other people think in ways that only sharing

their language can assist one to comprehend are going to be much better off in this world than those that don't. I want to call your attention to the fact that no one, no one, is questioning right to ethnic preservation, no one. But no one who's an advocate of bilingual education of any United States is opposed to English or is in favor of dethroning English or removing its from its position of the first and the integrative language of the United States, no one is in favor of that. Additional distribution funds were provided by the Florida Endowment for the Humanities, the Illinois Humanities Council, the Arizona Humanities Council, the New Mexico Humanities Council, the Colorado Endowment for the Humanities, and the Texas Committee for the Humanities, all state affiliates of the National Endowment for the Humanities.

Now, Ration was provided by Brenda Wilson.