The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer : WETA : September 21, 2009 7:00pm-8:00pm EDT; The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer

Captioning sponsored MacNEIL/LEHRER ODUCTIONS Lehrer: GOOD EVENING. I'M JIM LEHRER. ON THE NEWSHOUR TH MONDAY: THE LEAD STORY IS WARNING FROM THE TOP MILITARY COMMAER ABOUT THE NEED FOR MORE TROOPS I AFGHANISTAN-MARGARET WARNER TERVIEWED SECRETARY OF STATE CLINTON ABOUT THAT IN NEW YO. >>ECRETARY CLINTON TOLD ME PRIDENT OBAMA WON'T MAKE A DESION ON SENDING MORE TROOPS UNTIL THE SPUTED AFGHAN ELECTION IS RESOLV AND THAT ALL OPTIONS ARE THE TABLE.

>> Lehrer: AFTER THE CLION INTERVIEW COMEHE OTHER NEWS OF E DAY. THEN JUDY ODRUFF GETS THE TEST ON THE ARREST OF THREE TERROR SUSPECTS INEW YORK AND DENV; GWEN IFILL RUNS A DEBATE ON WTHER THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD REQUIRE EVERYONE THAVE HEALTH INSURANCE; AND JEFFREY BRO TALKS TOUTHOR MARGARET ATWOOD ABOUT HER NEW VEL, "THE YEAR OF THE FOD." JOR FUNDING FOR THE NEWSHOUR WITH JIM LEHRER IS PROVIDED BY ♪ ( HARD ROCK GUAR RIFF PLAYG ) WE ARE INTEL, SPONSORS OF TOMORROW.

>> 1 YEARS OF FINANCIAL STRENGTH AND THE EXPERIENCOF AN ESTABLIED INVESTMENT FIRM HAVE COME TOGETHER. WACHOVIA SECURITIES IS NOW WLS FARGO ADVISORS THE FINANCIAL ADVISO NEARBY AND NATIWIDE. WITH T ADVICE AND PLANNING EXRTISE TO HELP YOU ADDRESS TODAY'S UNIQUE CHALLENS, WE'RE WITH YOU. WAOVIA SECURITIES IS NOW WELLS FARGO ADVISORS TOGETHER, WE'LGO FAR. AND WITH THE ONGNG SUPPORT OF THE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... IS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATIONOR PUBLIC BROADCAING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TYOUR PBS STATION OM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU.

>> Lehrer: THE U.S. COMMANR IN AFGHANISTAN IS WARNING T WAR IN AFGHANISTAN COULDE LOST WITHOUT MORE AMERICAN OOPS. THAT WD CAME TODAY AFTER A CONFIDENTIAL ASSESENT WAS AKED. NEWSHOUR CORRESPONNT KWAME HOLMAN H OUR LEAD STORY PORT.

>> Holman: GENAL STANLEY CHRYSTAL DELIVERED HIS6-PAGE ASSSMENT AT THE END OF AUGUST. DAY CAME CONFIRMATION HE WOU SEEKORE TROOPS. E "WASHINGTON POST" WAS FIRS TO OBTAIN McCHRYAL'S ASSESSMENT. IN IT, HE SAID THE OVERALLAR EFFORT IS DETEORATING. HE SAID THE S. RISKS AN OUTCO WHERE DEFEATING E INSURGENCY IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE, LESS IT REGAINS THE MOMENTUM WITN 12 MONTHS. AND HE WENT ON TO WARN: THE GENERAL ALSOEPEATED HIS PREVUS CALLS FOR FOCUSING U.S. STRATEGY ON REDUCINGFGHAN CIVILIAN CUALTIES. PENTAG OFFICIALS CONFIRMED THE DETAILS WITHOUT FORMLY RELEASING THREPORT. AND AT THEHITE HOUSE, IT WAS UNCLEAR WHAT RPONSE McCHRYSTAL WILL GET. ON THE SUNDAY TA SHOWS, BEFORE THE GENEL'S ASSESSMENT WAS PUBLISHED, PRESIDE OBAMA SAID HE'S SKEPTICAL ABOUT SENNG MORE TROOPS, F NOW.

>> I'M NOT INTERESTED JUST BEING IN AFGHANISTAN FORHE SAKE OF ING IN AFGHANISTAN OR SAVING FACE OR, INOME WAY, YOU KNOW, SENDING A MESSAGE TH AMERICA IS HERE R THE DURATION. I THINK IT'S IMPORNT THAT WE TCH STRATEGY TO RESOURCES. WHAT I'M NOT ALSO ING TO DO, THOUGH, TO PUT THE RESOURCE QUESTI BEFORE THE STRATEGY QUESTION UNTIL I'M SATISFIED AT WE'VE GOT THE RIGHSTRATEGY, I'M NOT GOING TO BE SENDING SO YOUNG MAN OR WOM OVER THERE BEYOND WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE.

>> Holman: M OBAMA DENIED THAT TEST TT BUT ON THE SENATE FLOOR LATE TODAY, REPUBLIC LEADER MITCH McCNELL URGE THE PRESENTO ENDSE MORE TROOPS AND SOON.

>> FORHE SAKE OF OUR LONG-TERM SECURITY, SHOULD SUPPOR THE McCHRYSTAL PLAN. ANHING LESS WOULD CONFIRM AL QAEDA'S VIEW TT AMERICA LACKS THE STNGTH AND THE RESOLVE TO ENDURE ALONG WAR.

>> Reporter: THE U.S. FCE IN AFGHANISTAN NOW NUMBERS 62,000. AND ALREADY IT'S ON I WAY TO 68,0 BY YEAR'S END. ANU.S. CASUALTIES ALSO ARE RISING, TO 48 KILLED IAUGUST, THE DEADEST MONTH YET. 29 MORE HAVE DIED IN SEPTEER. MEANWHE, THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES OVER AHANISTAN'S RECENT PREDENTIAL ELECTION. TODAY, A U.N.-BAED PANEL AGREED TO RECOUNT A SAMPNG OF THOUSANDS OFUSPECT BALLOTS.

>> Lehre NOW, SECRETARY OF STATE HILLARY CLINTON TAKES THE TROO STORY IN OUR NEWSMAKER INTERVIEW. MARGARET WARNER TAED WITH HER IN NEW YORK ONHE EVE OF THE UNITEDATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY MEETINGS.

>> Warner: MADAM SRETARY, THANKSOR DOING THIS.

>> THANK YOU VY MUCH FOR TALKING TH ME TODAY, MARGARET.

>> Warr: YOU ARE A KEY ADVISOR TO PRESIDENTBAMA AS SECRETARY OF STATE AS HE'S REVIEWING THIS WHOLE AFGHAN STTEGY. WHAT ISOUR REACTN TO GENERAL McCHRYSTAL'S ASSESSMENT. >>IRST, LET ME PUT IT INTO CONTEX ONE OF THE POINTS THAT THE ESIDENT HAS MADE CONTUOUSLY SINCE TAKING OFFICE IS AT WE'RE GOING BE ASSESSING BOTH O STRATEGY AND ITSMPLEMENTATION CONSTANTLY WE'RE NOT GOINTO MAKE A DECISIONAND THENJUST LET IT GO ON AUTO POT. WE THINK THATT'S MUCH BETT TO BE VE OPEN AND ROBUS IN OUR DELIBERATIONS. SO WAT GENERAL McCHRYSL HAS DONE IS TO TAKE A LOOK FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE. HE'S A NEW COMMAER. HE WAS ASKED TO PLEASE GIVE HIS BEST JUDGMENT. HIS MEMO IS IS WHAT'S CALLED CLASSIFIED PRE-DECISIONAL ASSESSMENT. BUT GOES INTO THE PROCS. WE HAVE A REALLY VIGOROUS PROCESS THROUGH THE.F.C., D THE WHITE HOUSE, WHERE WE MAKE OURs= CONTRIBUTIS. THEN, OF COUE, DECISNS GO TO THE PRESIDENT. I THINK THE PRESIDENT SAID VERYELL YESTERDAY ON HIS RATHON TALK SHOW APPEARANCES THAT, YOU KN, WE NEED TO HAVE A CLR VIEW OF THE STRATE AND ITS PLEMENTATION BEFORE GET RESOURCES. TH'S THE PROCESS WE'RE ENGAGED IN RIGHT NOW. >>arner: GENERAL McCHRYST WAS VERYLUNT SAYING IF YOU WANT TO DO COUNTERINRGENCY, HE NEEDS MORE RESOURCES OR THE WHOLE WAR WILL QUOTE, LILY RESULT IN FAILURE. IS TRE ANYONE BETTER POSITIONED TO GIVE AT LEAST THAT KIND OF ASSESSMENT TH THE COMMANDER YO SENT OUT THERE OR THE PRESIDENT SENT OUT THE TO DO JUST THAT?

>> WELL, WITHOU REERENCING GENERAL McCHRYSTAL'S REPORT-- BECAUSIT IS CLSIFIED-- LET ME JUST Y THAT WE KNOW INCLUDG OUR MILITARY COEAGUES, THAT GO GOVERNAN IS KEY TO WHETHER OR NOT WHAT W DO HAS POSITIVE RESULTS. WE KNOW THAT GETNG IT RIGHT IN PAKISTAN A ALONG T BOER IS CRITICAL. SO TRE'S NOT JUST ONE DECISION PNT NUMBER OF TROOPS. IS PART OF A BROADER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT ARE O UE GOALS? HOW BEST CAN W MOVE TOWARD ACHIEVG THEM. WE HAVE A CAR AND CRITICAL OBJECTIVE OF TRYINGO DISRU AND DISMANTLE AND DEFEATL& QAEDA A THEIR EXTREMT ALLIES AND PREVENT A RETURN TO SAFE HAVEN, ANDVERY PIECE OF THIS HAS TO FIT TOGHER. WE DON'T EVEKNOW YET WHO WILL BE THE PRESIDENT OF AFGHANISTAN. SO, IT'S NOT INNY WAY TO SAY THAT WHAT GENERALMcCHRYSTAL, BASEDED ON S EXPEISE, IS PRESENTING OR ASNG FOR IS NOT IMPOANT. IT'S CRICALLY IMPORTANT. BUT IT'S AART OF THE OVERALL PROCESS. ERE ARE MANY OTHER CONSIDERATIONS THAT WE HAVE TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.

>> Warne IN IT, HE GOES TO THE POINT YOU RAISE ABOUT GOVERNANCE.

>> UM-HUM.

>> Warner: SAYS THAT THE KARZAI GOVERNMENT, HE SAID, GIVEN THE WIDESPRD CORRUPTION-- AND'M JUST GOING TO QUOTE-- GIVES AFGHNS TTLE REASON TO SUPPORT THEIR GOVERNMENT. DO YOU SEE IT THAT WAY? I MEAN YOUAVE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND THE. IS TRE SOMETHING PRETTY FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED ABOUT IS NATIONAL GOVERNMENT AND THE WAYT'S REGARDED BY ITS OWN PEOPLEAT A TIME IN WHICH PART OF THE STRATEGY WAS TO STAND UP STABLE AND SECURE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT?

>> WELL, SEE IT CERTAINLY AS A OBLEM. YOU KNOW, CORRUPTION, I HAVE BELED A NATIONAL SECURITY THRE. BUT I THINKE HAVE TO TAKE A STEP BACK WHICH IS WHY TS ANALYSIS IS SO IMPORTANT WE'RE NOT GOING TO JUMPO A SNAP JUDGMENT. 'RE GOING TOAKE IS VERY DELIBERATELY. FIT OF ALL, HOLNG ANY ELTIONN A WAR-TIME SETTING IS VERY DIFFICULT TO DO. THE FACT THAT THIS ELECTION WENT FORWARD DESPITE THE FAWS ANTHE ALLEGED IREGULARITIES IS NOT SURISING. IT'S A QUESTION OF WHETH AT THE END THE PROCESS-- A REMEMBER THERE IS BOTH AN AFGHAN INDEPENDENT ELECTION COMMISON AND INTERNATIONAL ELECTION COMMISSIO-- IF AT THE END OF THE PROCESS AFTER SORTING THROUGH ERYTHING THAT THEY HAVE TLOOK AT, THEY CONCLUDTHAT THERE WAS A VICTOR IN THIS FIRSTOUND OR THEY CONCLUDE THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO A SECOND ROUND, THINK THAT WILLIVE A CERTAIN REASSURANCE THE PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN. THE REAL QUESTION, HWEVER, IS NOT SO MUCH WHO GE ELECTED T WHAT DO THE DO ONCE THEY ARE ELECTED? HOW DOHEY BUILD THE CONFIDENCE OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE A GOVEMENT THAT CARES ABOUT THE AFGHAN OPLE, THAT THEY ARE DELIVERING SERVICES THAT THEY ARE MBATTING CORRUPTION, IMPROVING GOVERNANCE ALL OF THAT? THAT'S WT WE HAVE TO WORK ON

>> Warner: BUT DYOU THINK THAT PRESIDENT KARZAI, WH HE'S BEEN IN THAT B FIVE YEARS, THE U.S. HAS BEEN SANG ALL THOSE THINGS FOR FIVE YEARS, MAYBE NOT AS EMPHATICALLY AS YOALL HAVE. DO YOU HAVE ANY CONFIDENCE THAT HE HAS THE POTICAL WILL, THE CAPABILIT THE BACKGROUND TO DO ANY OFHAT?

>> ION'T THINK HE WAS ALLY TEST THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATION. I INK THAT THERE W SCH AN INTEE, IMMEDIATE EFFORT THA WAS TOTALLY UNDERSTDABLE TO GO AFT THE TALIBA TO TRY TO IN SO FARS PSSIBLE CHASE DOWN AL QAEDA THAT GOVERNANCE WAS IMPORTANT BUT IT WN'T UNDERSTO TO BE CENTRAL T OU MILITARY STREGIC GOAL. SO WHAT I BELIEVIS THAT THERE IS A LOT OF GOOD THAT HAS COME FOR THE AFGHAN PEOPLE OVER THE LAST YEARS. THERE HASN'T BEEN A HISRY OF, YOU KNOW, REALLY STRONG, FUNCTIONING CENTRAL GOVERNMENTS. BUT MO PEOPLE ARE SCHOOL PARTICULLY MORE GIRLS AND WOMEN. THERE AREDVANCES BEING MADE THAT WE HAVE NOW WORKED ON OV THE LAST EIGHT MONTHS TO DEAL WITH THE POPY TRADE, TO FOCUS ON AGRULTURE SO THAT WE ACTUALL BRING ASSE TO THPEOPLE WHERE THEY LIVE AND WHAT THE LIVELIHOO IS. SO I THINK THE ARE SOME POTIVE CHANGES GOING . IS IT ENOUGH? IS IT MOVING AT PACE THA I PREFER? NO BUT I WANT TO LOOK ATTHIS VERY OECTIVELY. I CAN SEE THE PROBLEMS AND I CAN SEE, YOU KNOW, THE POTIVES. AND EN WE WANT TOMOVE MORE TO THE POSITIVE SIDE THE LEDGER

>> Warner: HOW FDAMENTAL IS THIS REVIEW THAT PRESINT OBAMA AND YOU ALLRE DOING? HOW LO IS IT GOING TO TAKE?

>> WELL, ITIS FUNDAMENTAL BECAUSE IT'S PT OF THE WAY 'RE APPROACHING THE ISSUES. I MEAN COTANTLY ARE SAYING WHAT'SORKING, WHAT'S NOT WORKIN SO IT IS BH FUNDAMENTAL AND IT IS THOUGH. AND THOUTFUL. WE'RE NOT GOING TOMAKE ANY DECISIONS OF ANYSIGNIFICANCE UNTIL WE KNOW THE OUTCOME OF THIS ELECTIO I AN BECAUSE WE HAVE TO KNOW WHO OUR COUNTERPAR ARE. WE HAVTO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT IN RETUR FOR X, WE EXPECT Y.

>> Warner: SO IS A REAL CHAN IN STRATEGY AT LEAS A TERNATIVE WHICH IS NOT TRYING TO BUILD UP OR CREATE PACITY IN A STRONG CENTRAL GOVEMENT BUT GOING TO A DIFFERENMODEL, DOING IT... DOING A MORELASSIC COUNTERTERRORI CAMPAIGN, ATTACKING AL QAEDA LEADERS AND HAVING FEW COMBAT FORCES O THE GROUND? ARE YOU AUALLY REASSESSING WHETHER COUNTENSURGENCY IS THE WAY TO GO HERE? >>OU KNOW, I THINK IT'S FAIR TOAY, MARGARET, THAT WE HAVE AN OPENIND TO ANY ARGUMENT THAT IS MADE. NOW I'SURE EACH OF US IS ENTERING INTTHIS PROCESS WITH O OWN POINTS OF VIEW AND OUR OWN BASE OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT WILL OR WILL NOT WOR AND WHAT GENERAL McMcCHRYSTAL HAS DONES TO PRIDE HIS ASSESSMENT. WEILL GET ASSESSMENTS FROM OTHERS AS WELL. AND THENE WI HASH IT OUT IN THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL TEAM. ANTHEN WE WILL PRESENT OUR BESTECOMMENDATIONS TO THE PRESIDENT. BUT AT T END OF THE DAY, IT'SHE PRESIDENT'S DECISION I THINK THAT WE HEARD T PRESIDENT SAYING YESRDAY IS LOOK, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CONVIN ME THAT WHATER DECISION-- IS IT CLASSIC COUNTERINSURGENCY WI ADDITIONAL TROS? IS COUNTERSURGENCY AT THE SAMEROOP LEVEL? IS IA DIFFERENT MIX OF TROOPS? IST A CNTERTERRORISM STRATE? ....

>> Warner: FEWER TROOPS.

>> WHO KNOWS? WHAT WE'RE LOOKING ATTHOUGH ARE THE GOALS THAT WE HVE. OUGOAL IS TOROTECT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, OUR ALLIES, OUR FRIENDSROUND THE WOD, FRO WHAT IS THE EPICENTER OF TRRORISM, NAMELY THEAFGHANISTAN/PAKISTAN RDER. I MEAN JUS TODAY WE HAVE TH ANNOUNCEMENT INEW YORK ABOUT A VERY IMPORNT TERRORM INVESTIGIONINVOLVE RG PELE FROM AFGHANISTAN. SOME PEOE SAY, WELL, AL EDA IS NO LONGER IN AFGHANISTAN. AFGHANISTAN WERE TAKEN OVER BY THE TALIBAN, I CAT TELL YO HOW FAST A QAE WOULD BE BACK IN AFGHANISTAN. WE HAVE TO BEREALLY CLEAR-EYED ABOUT TH. WHAT I'M VERY GRATEFULOR IS THAT W'RE NOT CING IN WITH ANY IDEOLOGIL, YOU KNOW, PRE-SUPPOSITIO. WE'RE NOT COMING IN WEDEDO THE PAST. WHAT WE TRY TO DOIN THIS MINISTRATION IS TO SORT OUT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT FACTORS AND ME TO THERESOLUTION BASED ON THEEST INFORTION WE HAVAND THEN AS SOON AS WE THAT, WE EP GOING AT . WE DON'T SAY, OKAY, FINE. NOW WE'RE SET FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. THAT'S NOT THE WAY TS, YO OW, PRESIDENT WORKS. THAT'S N THE WAYHAT ANY OF US WORK.

>> Warner: GETTING CK TO GENERAL McCHRYSTAL'S MEMO THOUGH,E CONVS A GREAT SEE OF URGENCY. THERE'ONE LINE IN THERE IN WHICH HE SAYS FAILUREO GAIN THE INITIATE-- AND HE'S TAING ABOUT IN THE NEAR TERM-- WHILE WE WAITFOR, SAY, THE AFGHANSECURITY FORCES REALLY GET ABLTO HANDLE THIS. HE SAI "RISKS AN OUTCOME WHERE DEFEATING THE INSURGENCY IS NO LONGER POSSIB." HE ISTRONGLY SUGGESTING THAT THERE AREN'T MONTH AND MONTHS TO COME A DECISION HERE.

>> I RESCT THAT. CLEAY HE IS T COMMANDER ON THE GROUND BUT I CAN ONLYELL YOU THERE E OTHER ASSESSMENTS FR, YOU KNOW, VER EXPERT MILITARY ANALYSTS WHO HAVE WORKED IN UNTERINSURGENCIES THAT AIR THE EXACT OPPOSITE. WHAT OUR GOAL IS, IS T TAKE ALL OF THIS INCOMING DTAND SORT IT OUT. I DON'T THI YBODY IS GOING TO PUSHO A CONCLUSION FOR E SAKE OF A CONCLUSION. I THINK THAT YOU SEE THAT THIS PRESIDENT ACTS AND THIS VE DELIBERATIVE WHICH I BELIEVE IS A PREFERABLE WAY TO PROCEED EN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LIVES OF YOUN AMERICAN MEN AND WOMEN, THE LIVES THE YOUNG SOLDIERS OF OUR ALLIES WHO ARE PART OF THE INTERNATIONAL SECURITY FORCE, WHEN YOU'RE TALNG ABOUT LIVES OF AFGHANS. YOU NT TO BE SUREHAT THE PROACH THAT WE ARE PURSUING MAXIMIZING SCESS. THERE IS NO GUARANTEE. THERE ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEE. BUT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT THIS REMAINS TAL AMERICA'NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST. SO HOW DO WEEST DINE OUR APPROACH TO PROTECNG THE INTERESTAND THE VALUES THAT E AT STAKE? >>arner: FINALLY TURNING TO U.N.GA WEEK HERE. IRAN IS NOT FORMALLY ON THE AGENDA BUT IT'SLEARLY AN IMPORTANT SU TEXT. WHATOULD YOU LIKTO GET T OF THIS WEEK THAT WOULD STRENGTHEN THE HAD OF THE U. AND ITS PARTNERS I RESTRAININGIRAN'S NUCLEAR PROGRA

>> WELL, IRAN MAY NOT BE FORMALLY ON THEGENDA BUT 'S ON EVERYONE'S MIND. THE UCOMING MEETING OF THE OF THE PERMENT MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL PLUS GERMA ON OCTOBER 1 IS A VERY IMPORTANT MILESTONE. THE ITED STATES HAD NOT FOALLY PARTICIPATED IN THES ETINGS BEFORE. WE WILL BE AT THEABLE. WE'VE MADET VERY CLEAR TO IRAN THAT THEY MAY HVE IT ISSUES THEY WI TO DISCUSS WITH THIS GROUP BUT THIS GROUP HAONE ISSUEO DISCUSS WITH THEM. THAT IS, YOU KNOW, EIR NUCLEAR PROGRAM. AS I'VE SAID MANY TIS, 'RE GOING GIVE THE IRANIANS A CHOICE. WE HAVE A CHOICE THAT THEYARE FACING NOW. THEY HAVELAUNTED THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY. THEY HAVE REFUSED TO AOW THE KIND OF IEK... INSPECONS AND FOLLOW-U THAT THEY AR OBGATED TO DO SO. WE WANTO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR WHAT THEIR OPTIONS AREOING RWARD.

>> Warner:HE SUPREME LEADER KHAMENEI THIS WEEND DECRIED I THINK WAS THE VERUSED THE RESHAPING OF THE MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEM FOR EUROPE THAT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATN DID LASTEEK. WAS THATNTENDED AS A SIGNAL TO IRAN?

>> Y. HIS DECRYINGT IS PROBABLY TH STRONGEST ENDORSEMENT WE HAVE OF THE CHANGEN POLICY THAT HAS BEEN ADOPTED IN THIS MINISTRATION.

>> Warr: WHAT KIND OF SNAL WAS IT?

>> WE HAVE SAID FROM THE VERY BEGINNING TH MISSILE DEFENSE EUROPE WAS ABOUT IRAN. IT W ABOUT THEIR MISSILE CAPATY BASED ON OUR ANALIS WE DETERMINED THAT THEYERE MUCHURTHER ALONG IN SHORT-TERM AND MEDIU BALLISTIC MISSILES THAN IN THE INT-CONTINENTAL BALLISC MISSILE. WEDOPTED THISEW APPROACH. IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP, WE WILL PROTECT ALL OF EUROPE PLUS MUCH OF THE CAUCUS, OUR TROOPS, NATO TROOPS. AND WE'VE BEEN SENDING A MESSAGE-I HAVE REPEATEDLY MA CLEAR TO THE IRANIA THAT IF PARTF EIR CAULATION IN PURSUI NUCLEA WEAPONS THAT ARE DEVERABLE ON MISSIES IS THAT THEWILL BE ABLE TO BETTER DOMINATE THEIR REGION AND BEYOND, THE ARE MKING AN INACCURATE CALLATION.

>> Warner: WILL U ALSO BE PROTECTING ISRAEL AND T GULF STATES? >>ELL, WE ARE IN DISCUSSION WITH OTHER FRIEN AND ALLIES IN THEEGION.

>> Warner: MADAM SRETARY, THANYOU FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU, MARGARET. OD TO TALK TO YOU.

>> Lehrer: YOU CAN READ THE TRANSCRIPT OMARGARET'S INTERVIEW ON OUR WEB SITE, NEWSHOUR.PBS.ORG. ALSO ONLIN MARGARET PREVIEWS THE UNITED NATNS GENERAL ASSEMBLY MEETINGS AT START TOMORROW. YOU N LOOK AT PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR THE WAR IN AFTER GFE AN, READ A BLOG ABOUT HOW ATTITUDES ARE SHIFTING O AND NEAR MILITARY BASES. IN OTHER NEWS TODAY,HE DEPOSED PRESIDENT OF HONDURAS CLMED HE HAS RETURNED HOME. MANUEL ZELAYA MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT ON LOCAL TEVISION IN HDURAS. LAR, IT EMERGED HE HAS TAKEN REFU INSIDE THE BRAZILIAN EMSSY THERE. LAYA WAS FORCED OUT OF THE COUNY IN LATE JUNE. THE INTERIM GORNMENT DENIED HE HAS TURNED. INSURANCGIANT A.I.G. HAS MADE SOME PROGRESS TO PAY BACTHE FEDERAMONEY IT RECEIVED. THE U.S. GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILI OFFICE REPORTED TODAY A.I.G. HAS REPD ABOUT $60 BIION. IT STILL OWES 20 BILLION. A.I.G. WASESCUED LAST FALL, AFTER GE LOSSES ON INSURING SUB-PRIME RTGAGES NEARLY DROVE IT UNDER. ON WALL REET, THE MARKET TOOK A PAUSE IN ITS ONGOI RALLY. THDOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE ST 41 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 977 THE NASDAQ ROSE FIVE POINTS OSE AT 2138. BANK OF AMERICA WILLACE A FEDERAL TRIAL OVER CHARGES INVOLVING ARLY $6 BILLION I BONUSES MERRILL LYNCH. THE SECURITIE AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION HAS CHARGED BANK O AMERICA FAILED TO TELL SHAREHOLDERS IT APROVED THE PAYMENTS THAT WAS BEFORE IT TOOK OVER MEILL LYNCH LAST YEAR. LAST WEEK, FEDERAL JUDGE THREW OUT A PROSED SETTLEMENT OTHE CIVIL CASE. THE HEADF THEFEDERAL MMUNICATIONS COMMISSION PROPOSED OPEN INTERNETULES DAY. HE CALLEFOR ALL WIRELESS CARRIERS TO ABIDE BY THEAME RUS THAT WIRED NETWORKS HAVE TO FOLLOW. SOME WIRELESS CARRIERS, SUCHS AT&T, HAVE BLOCKED FILSHARING TRAFFIC BECAUSE THEY TAKUP SO MUCHAPACITY. THE CARRIERS ARGUE HEAVY USE CAN SLOW TRAFFIC F EVERYONE. AND STILL TO COME ONHE AND STILL TO COMON THE NEWSHOUR TIGHT: A HEALTH INSURANCE MANDATE; AND NOVELT MARGARET ATWOOD. THAT FOLLOWS THE LATEST THE ARREST OF THE TERROR SUSPECTS. JUDY WDRUFF HAS THE STORY.

>> Woodruff: THEHREE DEFENDANTSADE THEIR FIRST APPEARANCEIN FEDERAL COURT TODAY IN DVER AND NEW YORK CITY. THE ARRESTS ON SURDAY WERE THE RESULTF A YEAR-LONG INVESTATION OF 24-YEAR-OLD NAJIBULLAH ZAZI, AN AFAN NAONAL AND AIRPORT BUS DRIVER WHO HAREPORTEDLY ADMITTED TO GETTING EXPLOSIVES TRAINING FROM AL QAE. POLICE RAIDED HIS DENV-AREA HOME LAST WEEK. HE ALLEGEDLY TRAVELED TO PAKISTAN TCE THIS YEAR, AND HAD NOTES ANGUIDES FOR BOMB MAKI ON HIS COMPUTER.

>> SWHEN HE WAS QUESTIONED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOTE KNEW YTHING ABOUT THESE WRITTEN NOTES, AND THEY WEREHOWED TO HIM, HE DENIED THAT KNOWDGE.

>> Woodruff:AZI WAS CHARGED WITH LYI TO OFFICIALS IN AN ONGOING TERROR INVESTIGAON. HE H INSISTED HE'S DONE NOTHG WRONG. ZAZI'S 53-YEAR-OLD FATHER, MOHAMMED, WAS ALSO ARRESTED DENV.

>> HE IS ARRESTED BECAE HE LIED ABOUT THE PHONE CL THAT HE MADE TO HIS SON WHEN HEAS IN NEW YORK.

>> Woodruff: THE THIRD ARRES CAME 1,800 MILES AWAY IN NEW YORKITY, WHERE ZAZI USED TO LIVE 37-YEAR-OLD MAD AFZALI IS A PROMENT LEADERF THIS NEW YORK CITY MOSQUE. HE ALSO RKED AS AN INFORMANT FOR NEW YORK CITPOLICE, AND STANDS ACCUSED OF TIPPG ZAZI OFF ABOUT THE INVESTATION AND THEN LYING ABOUT IT TO T F.B.I. TODAY DEFENSE ATTORNEY R KUBY SAID HIS CLIENT WAS NOT ILTY OF LEAKING INFORMATION.

>> THE SUSPECT IN THTERROR INSTIGATION KNEW THAT HE WAS UNDER SURVEILLAN. AND HE SAID THAT ITHE TAPE CORDED CONVERSATION WITH THE IMAM. IT W THE F.B.I. ITSELF, ROUGH ITS OWN CONDUCT, THAT PPED OFF NAJIBULLAH ZAZI THA HE W UNDER INVESTIGATION. EY BLEW THEIR OWN INVESTIGATION, A NOW THEY'RE TRNG TO BLAME MY CLIENT.

>> Woodrf: SOME NEWS OUTLETS HAVE REPORTED E INVESTIGATION WAS FOCUSING ON A POSSLE PLAN TO ATTACK A PUBLIC AA IN NEW YORK CY, INCLUDING A SUBWAY., STATION OR GRAND CENTRAL TERMINAL IN MIDTOWN MANHTAN. FEDERAL OFCIALS SENT OUT A REMINDER TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENES TO CARRY OUT RANDOM SWEEPS AND PATROLS OF RA AND BUS SYSTEMS TO GUARD AGAINST HOMEMADE BOMBS. FOR MOREE TURN TO TWO REPORTERS WHO HAVE BN COVERING THIS STY. BRUCE FINL OF THE DENVER POST AND DAVI JOHNST OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES". THANK YOBOTH. DAVID JOHNSTON, TO YOU FIRST THE AUTHORITIES HAVEEEN OKING AT THE YOUNGER MR. ZA, THE 2YEAR-OLD FOR WHAT? MONTHS NOW? ALMOST A YR. WH FIRST DREW THEIR ATTENTION HIM?

>> WELL, WE'RE STILL WAIT TO GO FIND OU WHAT EXACTLYT WA AT IT WAS TH TRIGGERED THE FIRST SURVEILLANCE OF MR. ZAZI. BUT IT'S PRETTY CLEATHAT AS SOON AS HE RETURNEDROM ONE OF HIS LATEST TRIPS TO PAKISTAN THAT HE WAS UNDER SURVEILLANCE ATLEAST BENNING INANUARY.

>> Woodruff: THEON SEPTEMBER 9 WE KNOW THATE RENTED A CAR IN DENV AND DROVE TO NE YORK. THAT'S WHE THE AUTHORIES STARTED WATCHING HIM EVEN ME CLOSELY.

>> WELL IT S AT THAT POINT THAT THIS CE WENT FROM BEI A COVE OVERT AND THERECISE CIRCUMSTANCES OF HOW THA HAPPENED OR WHETH THE THORITIES INTENDED THAT TO HAPPEN IS STILUNCLEAR. CERTAINLY ISBEGINNING TO LOOK AS IF THIS SE WAS INADVERTTLY EXPOSED TO IT SUBJECT AT ABOUT SEPTEMBER0 OR STEMBER 11.

>> Woodruff: IANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT AT. IN FAC BRUCE FINLEY IN DENV, YOU LEARNED ABOUT THIS BEFORE THE AUTHORITIES WANTED IT OUT THROU ARIEND AND A POLICE RADIO. TELL US ABOUTHAT.

>> THAT MORNING ONE OF OUR REPORTERS ARD THE NAME NAJIBUAH ON THE POLICE SCANNER. HE ALSO ARD ABOUT THE RDS INEW YORK. SO WESET ABOUT TRYI TO SEE WHAT WAS HAPPENING. IT WAS REALLY QUITE A GOOD TEAM EFFORT FOR OUR NEPAPER. WE WERE ABLE TO USEOME ECTRONIC DATABASES AND TH SOME OPEN RECORDS TO FIND SOME ADDRESSES FOR ZAZI. WE ALSO VISITED SEVERAL OF THE MOSQUES THE CITY TRYING TO SEE WHAT WAS MAYBE GOI ON. LATE THAT AFTEOON, TUESDAY, I SPOKE WITH SOME THE RETIVES OF MR. ZAZI, AN AUNT AND AN UNCLE. THEN I BEGAN TO PIEC TOGETHER A LITTLE BIT OF HIS LIFE STORY GROWG UP IN A PROVINCE IN AFGHANISN AND MOVING AS A BOY TO AOTHER PROVINCE. THEN AROUND AGE 1 THE FAMILY MOVES TO QUEENS, FLUSHING, WHERE WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL. THEN IN JANUARY ACCORDING TO E AUNT AND ULEND THE LATER ZAZI HIMSELF, HE MOVED TO CORADO FOR WHAT WAS TO BE A BETTER LE, LOWER COST. HE LOVED SOCCER BUTE SPENT MOST OF S DYS DRIVING THE ABC TRANSPORTATIONHUTTLE THAT H OWNS TO AND FROM THE AIRPORT. ABOUT 16 HOURS A DAY.

>> Woodruff: BRUCE FINL, WHAT DID THE FAMILY SAY ABOUT THESE MTHS THAT WE LEARNED HE SPENT IN PAKISTAN AND APPARENTLY HAS TOLD AUTHORITS THAT HE DID PARTICIPATE IN AN AL QAEDA TRAINING PROGRAM

>> HIS AUNT SAIDHAT HE HAD NE TO VISIT HIS WIFE WHO LIVES OVEEAS. HE BEEN HOPING TO BRING HIS FE HERE ACCORDING TO AN UNCL THEN IN AN INTERVIEW WITH NAJIBULLAH, HE NFIRMED THIS STORY. THE SOCE OF THAT ADMISSION IS THE CHARGNG GOK UMENTS RELEASEDARLY SUNDAY WHERE IT ID THAT HE ADMITTED DOING TWO OF THE THREE DAYS OF QUESTIONING B THE F.B.I. IN DENVER WHILE PAKISTA ATNDED AN AL QAEDA TRAINING CILITY AND RECEIVED INSTRUCTIONS FROM AL QAEDA MEMBERS ANDEAPONS AND EXPLIVES. THAT'S THE EDENCE WE HE IS WHAT'S BEEN RELEASED IN THAT FEDERAL CHARGING DUMENT.

>> Woodrf: DAVID JOHNSTON, HOW SOLID, YOU'VE BEENALKING TO AUTHORITIES INEW YORK, WHAT DO THEY TELL YOU AND OTHERS ITHEEST INFOATION OR THE BEST EVIDENCE THEHAVE THAT SOTHING S ABOUT TO TAKE PLACE HERE?

>> WELL, WHAT THEY REALLY HAVE IS THEY HAVE MR. ZAZI'S TRAVELS, HIS TRAINING, AND THE SENSE THAT HE W ABLE TO MOVE AROUND THE UNITEDTATES FAIRLY FREELY. I THIN THAT'S PRETTY MUC ALL THAT THEY HAVE I THINK FRANKLY THEY ARE NOT CLEAON AT THE TARGET IS. IN FACT, THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE TAET IS. THEY DON'T KNOW WHA THE TIMI WAS GOING TO BE. THEY DON'T HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT THIS... WHAT THE INTENTIONS OF THESE MEN WERE.

>> Woodruff: HOW DO YOU EXAIN THEN THIS WARNING THAT WAS ISSUED TODAY DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH OF A NNECTION THE WAS OF THIS WARNING AT WASISSUED TODAY LAW ENFORCEMENT AROUND THE COUNTRY ABOUT POTENTIAL ATTACKS ON MASSTRANSIT BUS AND TRAIN?

>> WEL I THINK WHAT AUTHORITIES ARE SAYINGS THAT THIS WAS GOOD MOMENT TO REMIND PEOPLE OF THE CONCERN ABOUT ANDHE VULNERABILITIES OF THESE AREAS. THERE HASN'T BN A SPECIF LINKE MADE BETWEEN THE RESTS AND THOSE WARNINGS THAT WENT OUT FROM HOMELAND SECURITY TODAY

>> Woodrf: DAVID JOHNON, WHEN YOU SAY THAT ERE IS A SENSE THAT TY MOVEDORE QUICKLY THAN THEWANTED TO, WHAT DO YOU THINK PRECIPITATED THAT?

>> WELL, THERE'S NO DOUBT, I THIN THAT THE INFORMATION THAT WAS COMMUCATED TO MR. AFZALI ANDIS CONVERSAON WITH MR. ZAZI WAS PRECIPITATINEVENT THAT FORCED THE HANDS OF THE AUTHORITIES TAKE THIS INVESTIGATION PUBLIC, SO TO SPEAK. >>oodruff: BY THERE AFZALI....

>> TT'S THE IMAM IN N YORK. Woodruff: IN NEW YORK. BRUCE FINLEY, WHAT ARE THE AUTHORIZES THERE TELLIN YOU ABOUT WHERE THIS GOES FROM HERE?

>> WL, DON'T HAVE ANY CONFIRMATION THAT THE SURVEILLANCE MAY BE RGETING MORE INDIVIDUALS THERE'S A HINT OTHAT. WE INTERVIEW AN OPERATOR OF A STORE FACILITY WHO ID THAT THEY ENT CAME SHOWING FOURHOTOS. TWO OFMEN, TWO OFOMEN. THAT WAS ON NDAY. THERE'S NOTHING MORE THAN THAT HINT THOH THAT THEREOULD BE MOREPEOPLE UNDER SURVEILLANCE HERE. CERTAINLY IF THERE'S ANY MUNICIPAL,OU KNOW, POLICE OPATION IN THE COUNTRY THAT WOULD WANT TO KEE AN OPERATION VERT RATHER TH GO OVERT, YO WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE THE ONE IN NEW YO. AND THE WHOLE CASE IS RTAINLY INTERESTING TO BE PLAYING OUT NOW WHENOME IN CONGRESS ARE DISCUSSING THE SURVEIANCE POWERS AND REVIEWING SOME OF THOS MEURES PUT IN PLACE AFTER 9/11. Woodruff: DAVIDJOHNSTON, AT YOUR END, WHAT AREOU HEARING ABOUT ERE IT GOES FROM HERE?

>> THE F.B.I. IS EXPRSING CONFIDCE THAT IN E END THAT THEWILL HAVE GREATER CLARITY TH WE NOW HAVE ON WHATT IS THAT WAS REAY GOING TO BE UNFOLDINHERE. I THINK IT'S FAIRLY CLEAR TT THIS IESTIGATION WILL CONTINUE THAT THERE WILL BE OTHER PELE WHO WILL COME UNDER RUTINY, TH THEY WLL LOOKOTH AT THE UNITED STES AND TH'LL BE INVESTIGATING OVERSEAS IN PAKISTAN TO TRY TO GET A FION THIS. AND THATHE CHARGES IN COURT ARE GOING TO MOVE FRO THESE, IN A SENSE, PLACE HOLDER FALSE STEMENTS CHARGES TO RE TH LIKELY MORE SERIOUS CRIMINALHARGES.

>> Woodrf: ALL RIGHT. DAVID JOHNST WITH THE "NEW YORK TIMES," BRUCE FIEY WITH THE DENVER POST, THANK YOU BOTH. THANK YOU.

>> Lehrer: NEXT TONIGH MANDING HEALTH INSURANCE. GWEN IFI HAS THE STORY.

>> Ifill: AS THE HEAH CARE DEBATE RAGESONE KEY COMMON ATURE HAS EMERGED IN PLANS EMERGING FROM THE HOE, THE SENATE AND THE WHITE HOUSEALL WOULD QUIRE AMERICANS WHO ARE NOCOVERED BY EMPLOYERS TO PUHASE INSURANCE ON THEIR OWN, IN SOME INSTANCES WITH GOVERNMENTELP. THE WHO DON'T, WOULD PAY A PENALTY. UNDER THE SENATE VERON BEING HASHEDUT IN SENATOR MAX BAUCUS' FINANCE COMMTEE THIS WEEK, UNINSURED INDIDUALS WITH INCOMES OF BETWEEN 100% D 300% OF THE FEDERAL POVERTYEVEL-- UP TO ABOUT $32,000 A AR-- WOULD BE SUBJECTO UP TO $750 PER YEAR IN PENALTIE FALIES OF FOUR EARNING UP TO ROUGHLY $66,000 COULD BE FIN UP TO $1,500 A YEAR IF THE REMAIN UNCOVERED HIGHER EARNERS COU BE FINED $950 A YEAR FOINDIVIDUALS OR UP TO $3,800 YEAR FOR FAMILIES. THE HOUSE VERSIOWOULD PENALIZE UNINSURED INDIVIALS AND MILIES 2.5% OF THEIR ADJUSTE GROSS INCOME, TOPPING OUT AT ABOUT $4,800 FORN INDIVIDUAL. BOTH MEARES WOULD OFFER SUBSIDIES TO LOWND MODERATE- INCO AMERICANS TO OFFSET THE COST. IN A ROUND OF SUAY MORNING INTERVIEWS YESTERDAY, ABC'S GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS KED PRESIDENT OBAMA, WHO SUPPOS THE INSURANCE MANDAT WHETHER THE NEW OPOSED PENALTIES AMOUNTED TO A NEW X.

>> HE'S WHAT'S HAPPENING. YOU AND I ARE BOTH PAYIN$900 BUCKS ON ARAGE-- OUR FAMILIES- - IN HIGHER PREMIUMS BECAU OF UNCOMPENSATECARE. NOW, WHAT I'VE SAID IS THAT YOU CAN'T AFFO HEALTH INSURAE, YOU CERTAINLY SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED FOR AT. THAT'S JUST PING ON. IF, ON T OTHER HAND, WE'RE GIVING TAX CREDITS, WE'VE T UP AN EXCHANGE, YOURE NOW PART OF A BIG POOLWE'VE DRIVEN DOWN E COSTS, WE'VE DONE EVERYTHI WE CAN, AND YOU TUALLY CAN FORD HEALTH INSURANCE, BUT YOU'VE JUST DECIDED, "YOU KN WHAT, WANT TO TAKE MY CHANCE" AND THEN YOU GET HIT BY A BUS AND YOU AND I HAVTO Y FOR THE EMERGENCY ROOM CAR THAT'S...

>> THAT MAY BE, BUT 'S STILL A TAX INCREASE.

>> NO. THAT'S NOT TRUE, GEORG THE... FOR US TO SAY THAT YOVE GOT TO TE A RESPONSIBILITY TO GET HEALTH INSURANCES ABSOLUTELY NOT A T INCREASE. WHAT IT'S SAYING IS, IS TH WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE HER PEOPLE CRYING YOUR BURDENS FOR U ANY MORE THAN THE FACT THA RIT NOW EVERYBODY IN AMERICA, JUST ABOUT, HATO GET AUTO INSURANCE. NOBODY CONSIDERS THAT A X INCREA. PEOPLE SAY TO THEMSELVES TT IS A FAIR WAY TO MAKE SE THAT IF YOU HIT MY CAR THAT I'M NOT COVERING ALL THE COSTS. MY CRITICS S I'M TAKING OVER EVERSECTOR OF THE ECONOMY. YOU KNOW TT. LOOK, CAN HAVE A GITIMATE DEBA ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE'LL HAVE AN INDIVIDU MANDATE OR NOT.

>> YOU REJECT IT.

>> I ABSOLUTELY REJECT THAT NOTION.

>> Ifill: LEAST ONE DEMOAT SEES IT DIFFENTLY. IN THE MAX BAUCUS PROPOSAL THE PENALTY PROVISION IS EXPLITLY AND REPEATEY REFERRED TO ASN EXCISE TAX. SO HOW ESSENTIAL IS ITO REQUIRE INDIDUALS TO PURCHASE INSURANCE, AND WOULD TT BE A TAX? FOR THAT WE TURN TO JONATH GRUBER, A HEAL ECONOMIST AT THE MASSACHUSETTS STITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY HE SUPPORTED A 2006 MASSACHUSETTS ALTH REFORM LAW THAT INCLUDED A NDATE; AND MICHAEL CANNON, DIRECTORF HEAL POLICY STUDIES AT THE LIBERTIAN CATO INSTITUTE. LET'S START TH THE PROS AND CONS, NATHAN GRUBER OF MANDING HEALTH COVERAGE. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK T MAJOR PRO IS ALLOWI TO UNDER TA THE INSURANCE MARKET REFORMS THA ARE ESSENTIAL TO HEAH RE REFORMS. RIGHT NOW FOROST INDIVIDUALS IN AMERICA, IF THEY'RE SK OR BEME SICK, THEY CAN BE DENIED INSURANCE OR BE CHGED EXORBITANT PRICES. YOU CAT FIX THAT OBLEM UNTIL YOU GET EVERYONE INTO THE INSURANCE PO. SO THE MANDATE ALLOWS SURANCE MARKET REFORMTO BE POSSIBLE. THE SECOND P IS THAT WE'RE NOW SPDING A LOT OF MON ON THOSE WHO DON' HAVE HEALTH SURANCE WHO CHOOSE NOT TO BUY IT THROUGH UNCOMPENSATED CARE. YOEND THOSE COSTS BY HING INSURANCE COVERAGE. THE THIRD BENEFIT IS THAT, QUITFRANKLY, THE NBER OF INDIVIDUALS WHO WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITH LOW-COST INSURANCE COVERA WHO ARE CHSING NOT TO TAKE IT AND WE HELP THEM VE TOWARDS WHA WOD BE BETTER FOR THE ON THE OTHER HA, THE CO ARE THE MAATE ONLY WORKS IF IT'SFFORDABLE. THAT'S ONE CON. A SECO CON IS THE MANDE LY WORKS IF IT'S ADMINISTERABLE I THINK WE HAVETRONG EVENCE FROM MASSACHUSETTS THAT IT IS. AND THE THIRD IS MORE OF A PHILOSOPHICAL ISSUE, ASTHE PRESIDENT SAID, BETWEEN WHETHER IT'S APPROPRIATE OR NOT FOTHE GOVERNMENT TO IMPOSE THIS MANDATE.

>> Ifill: MICHAEL CANNON, LET'S ART WITH THE CONS AND THEN T PROS FOR YOU. HOW ISHAT?

>> THIS REALLYS THE MOST SWEEPINGLEMENT OF ALLñr THE BILLS BEFORE CONGRESS. NEVER BEFO HAS CONGRESS MADE COMPULSORY TO PURCHASE A PARTULAR PRODUCT JUST TO LIVE IN THE ITED STATES. RATHER THAN LIKEN THIS MAATE TO AUTONSURANCE, THE CONGREIONAL BUDGET OFFICE HAS SAI THE CLOSEST LAW IS THERAFT RATHER THAN AYTHING SE IN FEDERAL LAW. SO IT IS THEOST SWEEPI....

>> Ifi: IF YOU ARE A DRIVER YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A CAR.

>> YOU CAN AVOID T AUTO INSURANCE MANDATE B DISTING YOURSELFF A CAR. IT'S MUCHARDER TO DIVEST YOURSELFF OF A BODY WHICH IS WHAT YOU WOULD NEED TO DO TO AVOITHE HEALTH INSURANCE MANDATE. JONATHAN RSED AN IMPOANT POINT WHICH IS THE PHILOSOPHICAL PROBLETHAT PEOPLE HAVE WITH THI PEOPLE WILL LOSE THEIRREEDOM T TO PUHASE HEALTH INSURANCE. IT DOESN'T MATTER TO TE LOW OF PEOPLE. A LOT OF PEOPLEANT TO PURCHASE HEALTH SURANCE. BUEVEN THOSE WHO WNT TO PURCHASE HEALTH INSUNCE WILL LO THE FREEDOM TO COSE WHAT TYPE OF HETH INSURANCE TOPURCHASE. WEEE WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN MASSACSETTS WHERE THEY HAVE GULS SOR HEALTH IURANCE IS THE GOVERNMENT HASO DEFINE A MINIMUM LEVEL OFOVERAGE YO HAVE TO PURCSE IS A THAT YOU KNOW IF U'RE COMPLY ING WITH THE NDATE. WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT POWER INEVITABLY CAPTUR BY HEALTH RE PROVIDERS WHO WANT TO FORCE YOU TO PUCHASE COVERAGE FOR THEIR SERVICES. SINCE MANTE... SINCE MASSACHUSETTS HAS ENACTED ITS MAATE. 'S REQUIRED REDENTS TO PURCHA 16 ADDITIONAL TYPES COVERAGE. IT HAS LIMITED THE AUNT OF COST-SHARING THATHEY CAN HAVE WCH INCREASES THEIR PREMIUMS BY MAKING THEM PURCHA MORE COVERAGE. THE LEGISLATURE S 70 BLS THAT ARE ON THE DOCKET RIGHT NOW THAT WOULDEQUIRE RESIDENTS TO PURCHE EVEN MORE CERAGE. SO PREMIUMS ACTLLY GO UP WHEN YOUAVE COMPULSORY HEALTH INSURANCE RATHETHAN DOWN. Ifill: LET ME ASK JONATHAN GRER IN MASSACHUSETTS IF THAT THE WAY YOU SEE THE W THBILL HAS BECOMEAW.

>> ACTLLY NOT. IN FACT, IN MASSACHUSETT WE HAD SOME OF E MOST GENEROUS INSURAE IN THE COVERAGE... IN THE COUNTRY VOLUNTARILY BEFORE THIS LAW. WHAT WE MANDATED AND TO BE FA--'M ON THE BOA THAT SET IS UP THE MINIMUM STAND ARTS-- WHAT OUR BOARD MANDATED WAS A INSURAE PACGE THAT WAS LESS GEROUS THAN VIRTUALLY ANYONE IN T STATE HAD. WE CAREFULLY DESIGNED T INSURANCE PKAGE SO IT WOULD MINIMIZE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVETO BUY UP. MOREOVER WT WE'VE SEEN FOR INDIVIDUALS IS T COST OF BUYINGEALTH INSURANCE HAS FALLEN DRAMATICAL. IT'S NOT GONE UP. IT'S FALLEN BECAUSE BY MANDATING INSURANC WE FIX THE PROBM WITH OUR INSURANCE MARKET. HERE'S THEEY ISSUE.

>> Ifill: GO AHEAD.

>> THE KEY ISSUE IS A NUMBER STATES HAVE TRIED TO REFORM THEIR INSURANCE MARKETS WITHOUT MANDATE. THEY'VE UNIRSALLY FAILED. BO MR. CANNON AND WOULD AGREE ON THAT. THEY'VE ENDED UP WITH INCREDIBY HIGH PRIC AND VERY SMALL MARKETS. THEANDATE IS THE ONLYAY TO MAKE IURANCE MARKETREFORM EFFECTE AND LOWER PRICES.

>> Ifill: HOW ABOUT E DISCUSSION WHICH THE PREDENT WAS HAVI OVER THE WEEKEND AND MAX BAUCUS DOESN'T AEE WITH HIM ON IS WHETR THIS CONSTITUTES A TA WHEN YOU FINE PEOPLE FOR NOT BUYING SOMETHING THEYOULD BUY. IS THAA TAX

>> LET BE CLEAR. THE MANDATE ITSELF IS NO A TAX. NOW, YOU CAN TAKE... MR. CANNON AND IAN DEBATE THE LINGUIICS OF TT BUT THERE'S ONLY O AUTHORITY THAT MATTERS HERE WHICIS THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE. THEONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE DECIDES WHETHER OR NOT THIS QUALIES AS A TAX. THEY'VE EXPLICITLY SAID THIS IS NOT AAX. >>fill: LET ME ASK MR. CANNON, IS THIS LINGUISTIC

>> FIRST IF I CAN RESPONDTO SOTHING THAT JONATHAN SAID PREVIOUSLY. HEALTH IURANCE IN MASSACHUSETTS ARE GROWING 20 TO 40% FASTER IN T REST OF THE COUNTRY. THEY ARE NOT FLING. THERE ARE PROJECTIS THAT CAME OUT RECENTLY THA PREMIUMS WIL GROW BY 10% IN MASSACHUSETTIN 2010. NEXT YEAR. WHEREAS THEY' GOING TO GROW PROBABLY ABOUT 5-7% PROJECTED FOR THE ST OF THE COUNTRY. HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUM ARE T FALLING IN MASSHUSETTS. THE OPPOSITE IS HAPPENING. AS FOR WHETHE A MANDAT IS A TAX, THE PRESIDENT... WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID WAS NOBO THINKS IT'S A TAX. ACTUALLY I THINK MOST ECONOMISTS WOULD AGREE THAIT IS A T. THE PRIDENT WAS OVLOOKING THE WRITINGS OF PRINCETON HEALTH INSURANCE REINHART, HIS OWNDVISOR LARRY SUMMERS WHO HAS WRITTEN TH MANDATES ARE LIKE A BENEFITS TAX OR I'M SORRY A PUBLIC PROGRAMS NANCE BY AENEFITS TACK. HIS N APPOINTEE TO THE ASSISTANSECRETARY FOR PLANNING AND EVALUATION AT THE DEPAMENT OF HEALTH AND HUM SERVICES HAS WRIEN THAT MANDATES ARE LIKE A TAX. THE CONGRESSIONALBUDGET OFFICE H SAID THAT THE PENALTIEFOR NOT COMY ING TH THE MANDATE ARE ATAX.

>> Ifill: PROFESSOR GRUBER, LET ME ASKOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THIS WOULD WORK. FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU DO'T MAKE EUGH TO QUALIFY... IF YOU MAKE TOO MCH TO QUALI R A SUBSIDY BUT NOT ENOUGH TO BUY PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE ON YOUR OWN, WHERE DO YOU FALL? IS THI UNIVEAL COVERAGE IF YOU LL INTO THAT GRAY AREA?

>> WELL, THIS COMES TO THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE WTH A MANDATE WHH IS AFRDABILITY. BASICALLY WHAT COULD HAPPEN IS U COME UP WITH A RANGE OF PEOPLE WHO DO N MAKE ENOUGH TO AFFORD INSURANCE, WHO HAVE HIGH ENOUGHNCOME THEY CAN'T GET SUBSIDIES. AT'S WHY THE BAUCUS BILL WOULD HAVE A MANDATE EXEMPTION AT 10% OF INCE. INDIVIDUALS WHO HA TO SPE MORE TN 10% OF THEIR INCOME TO GET INSUNCE WOULD BE MASSACHUSETTS,HERE WOULD BE SO UNINSURED INDIDUALS EXEMPTED TO MAKE IT AFFORDABLE BUT THEESULTS IN MASSACHUSETTS WE'VE COVERED ABOUT 8 OF THE UNINSURED, ABOU 85% ARE SUBJECT TO THE MANDATE. IT'S TRUE IT'S A SHAME WE'VE LEFT OUT 15 T THE VICTORY OF COVERING THE5% I THK COMPENSATES FOR THAT

>> Ifi: ARE SOME OF THOSE 15% PEOPLEHO HAVEIMPLY DECIDED JUST LIKE ME DRIVERS CIDE TO DRIVE UNINSURED TH ITON'T ABIDEY ANY OF THE RULES? IS IT ENFORCEABLE?

>> IT'S ABSOLUTE ENFORCEABLE. MOST OF THE PEOP WHO REAIN UNINSURED ARE PELE WHO ARE EXEMPTNDER OUR RULES, WHICH ALLOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO END MOREHAN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF INCOME TO BE EXEMPT. BUT MANY ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE SILYAYING THE PENALTY RATHER THAN FACE THEANDATE. DIVIDUALS HAVE THAT CHOICE. IF THEY WOULDATHER PAY THE PENALTY, THE $1,0 A YEAR UNDER THE BAUCUS BI RATHER THAN HE HEALTH INSURANCE THAT A CHOICE WE CAN MAKE. LET ME BE CLEAR.

>> Ifill: I JUST WANTED TO TURN TO MICHAEL CANNON BEFRE WE RUN OUT OF TIME.

>> TY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE TO AVOID THE MANDATE AND AVOID THE PENALTY WHI IS WHAT THEY HAVE RHT NOW WHICH IS WHY COMPULSORY HEALTH INSURANCE SCHEME AMOUNTS TO A TAX. AND PROFESSOR GRUB MENTIONED THAT NO ONE LL HAVEO PAY MORE THAN 10% O THEIR EARNINGS INEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS. UNDER THE BAUC BILL YOU COULD PAY UP T 13% OR MORE. AND BECAU THE MANDATE IS ITSELF AAX AND BECAUSE THE AMOUNT THAT YOU WOULDHAVE TO... YOU WOULD BEEQUIRED TO SPEND ON HEALTH INSANCE RISES WITH INCOME, YOU GET THESE STRAN TAX EFFECTS CALLED MARGINAL EFFECTIVE TAX RATES UNDER THE BAUCUS BILL WHICH COMBINED WITH CURNT LAW WOULD GIVE YOU TAX RAS OF 60% MARGIL EFFECTIVE TAX RATES FOR SOME MIDDLE IOME FAMILIES.

>> Ifill: THAT'S JUST A PART OF TH ARGUMENT ABOUT WHICH INDIVIDUALS HAVE TO PAY. 'LL TALK AT A LATERDATE ABOUT WHAT CORPORATIONS VE TO DO. NATHAN GRUBER, M.I.T., IN MASSACHUSETTS AND MICHAE CANNON FROM THE INDICAT OWE INSTITUTE, THANKOU BOTH VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. Lehrer: YOU CAN LISTEN TO A SERIES OF CONVERSAONS ABOUT HEALTH CARE REFORM ON OUR B SITE, NEWSHOURBS.ORG. ONLINEOW IS OUR INTERVIEW WITH THE THOR OF AN ARTICLE TITLED "HOW AMERIN HEALTH CARE KILLED MY FATHER." FINALLY TONIGHT, NOVEL TAKE ON E FUTURE. JEFFREBROWN TALKS WITH AUTHOR MARGARET ATWOOD.

>> Brown: IN A BEAUTIF LEAFY NEHBORHOOD OF TORONTO, MARGARET ATWOOD TENDS HER GARDEN. CUTTG BACK THE OVERGWN LEMON BALM AND PEPPER MINT. ON TS DAY THE WORLD SEEMED RE THAN FINE. BUT IN A NEW NOVEL ATWOOD CONJURES UP A NASTY FUTURE IN WHICH RELIGIOUS CULT CALD GOD'S GARDENERS STRUGGLES TO RVIVE. BIOLOGICAL EXPERENTS RUN AMOK, DIMINISHING FOOD SUPPLY AND A PANDEMIC TAT LEADS TO THE END OF THEORLD AS WE KNOWT. THE BOOK IS TITLED "THE YEAR THE FLOOD," PART OF A GENRE ATWOOD CALLS SPECULATIVE FICTION.

>> THE OY REASON I USE THAT TERM IS SCICE FICTI OFTEN MEANS PEOPLE PLNET X, TALKING CABBAS, VERY FAR-OUT THINGS, THE ATTACK OF BLIZZARD- MEN. THAT'S NOT WHAT I WRITE. BY SPECULATIVE FICON, I MEAN PLANET EARTH TECH THNOLOGY THAT WE HAVE TODAY OR ARE DEVELOPING, SFF WE COULD ACTUALLY DO THINGS TAT MIGHT REALLY... COULD CONCEIVLY PPEN.

>> Brown: ATWOOD A PROLIFIC MASTERF MANY GENRES, 17 VOMES OF POETRY, ESSYS, CRITICISM AND SHOR STORIES AND 1 NOVELS ICLUDING THE 2000 BOOR AWARD WINNING "THE BLD ASSASSIN." SHE'S PERHAPS BEST KNOWN STILL FOR HER FIRST FORAY IO ECULATIVE FICTION, A 1985 NOVEL "HE ND MAID'S TALE" LATER MADE IO A FILM WHICH PORTYED A FUTURE WORLD IN WHIC WOMEN WERE SUB GATE AND SOME OWNED BY MEN FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF BEARI CHILDREN. HER RECENT VEL AND NOW THE YEAR OF THE FLOOD LOOK AT WHAT COULD HAPPEN AS HUMA MEDAL WITH NATURE.

>> MY MATERIAL COMES FM READING QUITE A BIT OF WHAT I CALLED POP SCIENCE WHICH ANS....

>> Brown POP SCICE.

>> WHICH MEANS I DON'T HVE TO DO THE MAP. YOUR NOVEL SET IN THEFUTURE BUT WE' READING DEADLY HEADLINES ABT SWOOIN FLU AND SARS.

>> WAS I BASING IT ON ANYTHING PARTICAR? NO. BECAUSE YOU DON'T ND TO. IT'S O THERE. THE ONE IN MY BOOK IS GENETICS ALTERATION. ONE OF THE SRY THINGS ABOUT THTIME WE LIVE IN RIT NOW IS THAT WE CAN COMBINE GENETIC MATERIALS FROM DIFFERENT SPECIES.

>> Brown THE MIX SCIENC ANNATURE COMES QUIT NARALLY TO ATWOOD. BOTH HER PARENTS WERE SIGN TIFFS. SHE SPENT MUCH OF HER CHILDHOOD IN CABIN IN TH WOODOF NORTHERN ONTARIO. IN HER NEW NEL, SHE TAKES GREAT DELIGHTS IN MAKING UP NAMES OF BIOENGINEERED BIREATURES, A RACOON, SNK MIX AND A COMBINATIO LION AND LAMB.

>> A BITF A STRETCH. BUT IT'S NOT TOTALLYOUT OF THQUESTION. THE LION AND THE LB IN MY BOOK IS COMMISSIONED BY A RELIGIOUS GROUP WHO I BASING THEMSELVESN ISIAH, THE LN SHALL LIDOWN WITH THE LAM TH HAVE MADE A BLEND OF ON AND MB. UNFORTUNATELY IT DID NOTURN OUT TO BE A VEGETARIA

>> Brown: PS.

>> WL, THERE ARE A LOT OF OOPSS IN THE WORLD OF BIOLOGICAL MANILATION. THERE'S QUITE A FEW OOPSES. >>rown: ATWOOD SRES HER CONCER WITH THE ENVIRONMENT WITH HER PARTNER OF MO THAN 40 YEARS, GRAHAM GIBSON, A CONSERVATIIST AND FELLOW WRER.

>> THERE'SN ORIOLE

>> Brown: E TWO ALSO SHARE A PASSION FOR BIRD-WCHING, AS WELL AS WTCHING WHAT'S ON THE MENU WHEN THEY EAT O.

>> WHEN YOU A THINKIN ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE EATI IN RESTAURANTS AND IF YOU KN WHAT IS ON THENDANGERED FISH LIST, WHAT ELSE ARE THEY GOING TO PUTN THISñr MENU? THE IVORY-BILL WOODPECR.

>> Brown: IN YOUR BO YOU'VE CRTED THE SECRET BURGER.

>> NOBODY KNOWS WHAT'S IN IT. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW.

>> Brown: IN FACT, ATWOOD THE WRITER KNOWS THAT EVENIF THERE'S A MESSAGE TO GET ACROSSBOUT WHAT WRE DOING TO OUR WORLD,IT'S THE STORY AND THE STYLE THAT WILL DRAW IN READERS

>> WHAT I'M REALLY DOING IS ITING A BOOK THAT YOU CAN LIVE T EXPERIENC WITH AND THROUGH. AND THEN ASKOURSELF I IT'S WHAT YOU WOULDO. IFT'S ONLY INSTRUCTION WE GETORED AND ANNOYED. IF 'S ONLY ENTERTAINME WE THINK THE PERSON I BING FRIVOLOUS. I LEE IT TO YOU, MR.EADER, HOW MUCH DO YOU THI IS OUGH? ♪ >>rown: AMBITIOU IN HER STORY-TEING, ATWOOD ALSO THINKS BIG WHEN IT COMES TO THE TRADITIONAL OK TOUR. IN SEVERAL CITIES INCLUDING RECENTLY IN LOON, SHE PUT TOGETHER DRAMATIC PRESENTATION OF PARTS OF THE AR OF THE FLOOD. HERE THE CHARISTIC CULT LEADER ADAM ONE PREACHE TO HIS FOLLOWERS.

>> DEAR FRIEND, DEAR FELLOW CREATURES, DEAR FELL MAMMALS, CREATION DAY FIVE YEARSGO, THIS ROOTOP GARDEN OF OURS WAS A SIZZLING WASTELAND.

>> Brown: ANDYMNS THAT ATOD WROTE FOR THE BOOK WERE SET TO MUSIC. ♪ 40EARS AFTER THE PUBLICATION OF HER FIRSTOVEL WITH LEGIONS OF FA MARGARET ATWOOD HAS COME ALONG WAY IN THE YOUNGANADIAN WORLD SHE HERSELF SAYS W LOOKED ON AS SOMEING OF A FREAK. YOU WERE BECOMING WRITER AT THE TIME WHEN THERE REALLY WERE NO ROLE MODELS FOR IT.

>> THERE WERE BUT THEYE DEAD. THERE WEREN'T ANY IMMEDTE ES FOR ME. I COULDN'T SIT DOWNWITH ONE. IN 196THERE WERE FIVE NOVELS PUISHED IN ENISH CANADAY CANADIAN PUBLISHERS IN THE WHOLE YEAR. IN THE WHOLE YEAR.

>> TNK YOU. FOR BEING RE.

>> Brown: HAVING HELP RAISE THE PROFILE OF WRING IN HER COUNTRY, ATWOOD SAY SHE'LL CONTINUE T RAISE A LITECY WARNING CRY FOR THE REST OF US. SHE PLANS TO TURN HER LATEST FUTURISTIC FICTION INTO A TRILOGY. YOU CAN WATCH MORE OF FF'S INTERVIEW WI MARGARET ATWOOD AND MORE OF THE LONDON THEATRICALEADING ON OUR WEB SITE, NEWSHOUR.P.ORG. YOU N ALSO LISTEN TO ATWOOD'S PARTNE GRAEME GIBSON, TALK OUT HIS NEW COLLECTION OF ETRY AND SHORT STORIES, "THE DSIDE BOOK OF BEASTS." AGAIN, THEAJOR DEVELOPMENTS OF THE DAY: IN A CONFIDENTIAL REPORT, E S. COMMANDER IN AFGHANISTAN WARN HE NEEDS MORE TROOPS. GENERAL STLEY McCHRYSTAL SAID THE WAR COULD LOST UNLESS SOMEING CHANGES. ON THE NEWOUR THIS EVENING, SECRARY OF STATE CLINTON SAID PRESIDENOBAMA WON'T DECIDE ON SENDING MORE TROOPS UNTIL THE AFGHAN ELECTION IS ROLVED. AND THE DEPOSED PRESIDENT OF HONDURAS, MANUEL ZELA, CLAIMED HE HAS RURNED HOME. AND AGAIN TO OUR HOR ROLL OF AMERIC SERVICE PERSONNEL KILLED IN THE IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN CONFLICTS. WE ADD THEM AS THEIR DEATHARE MADE OFFICIAAND PHOTOGRAPHS COME AVAILABLE. HERE, IN SILENCEARE EIGHT MORE. WE'LL SEYOU ONLINE AND AGAIN RE TOMORROW EVENING. I'M JIM LEER. THANK U AND GOOD NIGHT. MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE NEHOUR WITH JIM LEHR IS PROVIDED BY:

>> WHAT THE RLD NEEDS NOW IS ENERGY, THE ENERGYO GET THE ECONOMY HUMMING AGAIN. E ENERGY TO TACKLE CHALLENGES LIKE CLIMATEHANGE. AT IS THAT ENERGY CAME FROM ENERGY COMPA? EVERAY, CHEVRON INVESTS $62 MIION IN PEOPLE, IN IDEAS-- SEEKING, TCHING, BUILDING. FUELING GRTH AROUND THE WORLD TO MOVE US ALL AHEAD. THIS IS THE POWER OF HUM ENERGY. CHEVRO THIS IS THE ENGINE THAT CONNECTS ABUNDANT GRAIFROM THE AMERICAN HEARTLAND TO HARAS BEST SELLING WHEAT, WHE KEEPING 60 BILLIONOUNDS OF CARBON OUT OF THE ATMOHERE EVERY YEAR. BNSF, THE ENGINE TT CONNECTS US. AND WITH T ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSLE BY THE CORPORAON FOR PUBLIC BROCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBIONS TO YOUR PBS ATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANYOU. Captioning spsored by MacNEILEHRER PRODUCTIONS Caponed by Media Aess Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org