PBS NewsHour; November 23, 2011 3:00pm-4:00pm PST

Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS

>> Brown: NINE MONTHS INTO THE ARAB SPRING UPRISINGS, YEMEN'S PRESIDENT AGREED TO STEP DOWN TODAY. AND EGYPTIAN PROTESTERS AND POLICE CLASHED AGAIN DESPITE MOVES TO CALM TENSIONS. GOOD EVENING, I'M JEFFREY BROWN.

>> Suarez: AND I'M RAY SUAREZ. ON THE "NEWSHOUR" TONIGHT, FROM CAIRO, WE GET THE LATEST ON THE FIFTH DAY OF VIOLENCE IN TAHRIR SQUARE FROM JONATHAN RUGMAN OF "INDEPENDENT TELEVISION NEWS."

>> Brown: THEN, WE LOOK AT LAST NIGHT'S G.O.P. PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE ON FOREIGN POLICY WITH ARI SHAPIRO OF NPR.

>> Suarez: AND WE HAVE A NEWSMAKER INTERVIEW WITH ONE OF THE CANDIDATES-- MINNESOTA REPRESENTATIVE MICHELE BACHMANN.

>> Brown: FROM OUR COLLEAGUES AT WTTW CHICAGO, WE HAVE THE STORY OF A TINY MUSSEL THAT'S INVADED THE GREAT LAKES, THREATENING THE HEALTH OF THE WATERWAYS AND THE LIVELIHOODS OF FISHERMEN.

>> Suarez: AND MARGARET WARNER LOOKS AT THE CRACKDOWN IN BAHRAIN AFTER A REPORT FOUND THE GOVERNMENT TORTURED AND USED LETHAL FORCE AGAINST THE ACTIVISTS.

>> Brown: THAT'S ALL AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S "NEWSHOUR." MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY:

>> COMPUTING SURROUNDS US. SOMETIMES IT'S OBVIOUS AND SOMETIMES IT'S VERY SURPRISING WHERE YOU FIND IT. SOON, COMPUTING INTELLIGENCE IN UNEXPECTED PLACES WILL CHANGE OUR LIVES IN TRULY PROFOUND WAYS. TECHNOLOGY CAN PROVIDE CUSTOMIZED EXPERIENCES, TAILORED TO INDIVIDUAL CONSUMER PREFERENCES, IGNITING A WORLD OF POSSIBILITIES FROM THE INSIDE OUT. SPONSORING TOMORROW, STARTS TODAY. AND BY THE ALFRED P. SLOAN FOUNDATION. SUPPORTING SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, AND IMPROVED ECONOMIC PERFORMANCE AND FINANCIAL LITERACY IN THE 21ST CENTURY. AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU.

>> Brown: YEMEN'S PRESIDENT ALI ABDULLAH SALEH SIGNED A STATEMENT TODAY AGREEING TO RESIGN ENDING 33 YEARS OF AUTHORITARIAN RULE. GULF STATE ALLIES PRESSURED SALEH AND BROKERED THE DEAL. YEMEN-- THE ARAB WORLD'S POOREST COUNTRY-- HAS SEEN NINE MONTHS OF PROTESTS. THE SIGNING TOOK PLACE IN SAUDI ARABIA, WHERE SALEH FLED SEEKING MEDICAL TREATMENT AFTER AN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT LAST JUNE.

>> ( translated ): WE WELCOME THE SHARING OF POWER WITH OUR BROTHERS IN THE OPPOSITION TO RULE THE COUNTRY AND TO REBUILD WHAT THE CRISIS HAS DAMAGED. THE SIGNING IS NOT IMPORTANT, WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS THE GOOD INTENTION AND THE STEERING OF SERIOUS WORK TOWARDS A REAL SHARING TO REBUILD WHAT THE CRISIS HAS DAMAGED.

>> Suarez: SALEH WILL TRANSFER POWER TO HIS VICE PRESIDENT WITHIN 30 DAYS, AND IN EXCHANGE WILL BE GRANTED IMMUNITY FROM PROSECUTION. YEMEN HAS LONG BEEN A BASE FOR AL QAEDA IN THE ARABIAN PENINSULA, AND THE SALEH GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN A QUIET U.S. ALLY IN THE WAR ON TERROR. IN WASHINGTON, PRESIDENT OBAMA ISSUED A STATEMENT WELCOMING THE YEMEN ACCORD.

>> Brown: AND IN EGYPT, IT WAS DAY FIVE OF THE SECOND UPRISING AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PROTESTERS FILLED CAIRO'S MAIN SQUARE AGAIN. ONE DAY AFTER THE NATION'S MILITARY LEADERS AGREED TO SPEED UP THE TRANSITION TO CIVILIAN RULE. WE HAVE A REPORT FROM JONATHON RUGMAN OF "INDEPENDENT TELEVISION NEWS."

>> Reporter: IN THE STREETS LEADING UP TO TAHRIR SQUARE, IT WAS AS IF THE ARMY'S PLEDGE TO STEP DOWN FROM POWER HAD NEVER HAPPENED. A TEAR GAS CANISTER LANDED AMID THE CROWD, BUT AS HAS HAPPENED SO OFTEN TODAY A PROTESTER PICKED IT UP AND THREW IT BACK. MOST OF THOSE INVOLVED LOOKED LIKE TEENAGERS, SOME SEEMED JUST OUT FOR A FIGHT. OTHERS HAD SEEN THEIR FRIENDS GASSED OR SHOT AND THEY WERE SEEKING REVENGE. AND ALL DAY, EVERY FEW MINUTES, THE BLARE OF AMBULANCES FERRYING THE INJURED. PROTESTERS ADVANCED ACROSS THE BARRICADES TOWARDS THE INTERIOR MINISTRY AND THE POLICE. UNTIL LATE THIS AFTERNOON WHEN THE ARMY MOVED IN. PEACE AT LAST, AFTER FIVE DAYS OF FIGHTING, AS WORD EMERGED OF A CEASE FIRE.

>> Reporter: THIS RELIGIOUS ACADEMIC TOLD US HE HAD HELPED BROKER IT AND THAT A CLEANING UP OPERATION WAS UNDERWAY.

>> Reporter: SOME WAVED THEIR GAS CANISTERS LIKE CAPTURED TROPHIES. OTHERS SAID ANY PEACE WITH SUPREME MILITARY COMMANDERS, KNOWN AS SCAF, COULD NEVER LAST UNTIL THEY WERE DRIVEN FROM POWER.

>> Reporter: THE SHOOTING AND TEAR GASSING FROM THE END OF THIS STREET HAS NOW STOPPED. THE ARMY HAS MOVED IN FRONT OF THE POLICE LINES, LOCAL COMMITTEES HAVE BEEN SET UP TO PUSH THE PEOPLE BACK TOWARDS TAHRIR SQUARE AND AWAY FROM THE POLICE. AND THE ONLY WAY THE ARMY CAN DRAW A LINE UNDER THIS CRISIS IS MAKING SURE THAT THE VIOLENCE DOES NOT BREAK OUT AGAIN. BUT NOW IT HAS, JUST AFTER DUSK IT STARTED. BULLET AND HEAVY TEAR GAS. THE GAS SPILLING INTO TAHRIR SQUARE. WHERE THOUSANDS HAVE BEEN RUNNING FOR COVER. EGYPT'S POLITICAL CRISIS APPARENTLY AS UNRESOLVED AS IT WAS WHEN THE DAY BEGAN. AT CAIRO'S MAIN MORGUE THIS MORNING. WE SAW TWO CORPSES ARRIVING WITHIN TEN MINUTES OF EACH OTHER. THE AMBULANCE DRIVERS TOLD US BOTH TWO MEN HAD BEEN SHOT AND KILLED. "THE PEOPLE WHO FIRED AT US WERE WEARING RIOT POLICE UNIFORMS," SAID A PROTESTER WHO CLAIMS HE SAW HIS FRIEND KILLED. "WE NEED HIS PARENTS TO IDENTIFY THE BODY," HE SAID. THEN A COFFIN EMERGED, INSIDE WAS A 25-YEAR-OLD MAN. ONE OF THE CITY CORONERS SAID HE WAS ONE OF THE 21 SHOT DEAD SINCE MONDAY. GUNFIRE HAD BEEN THE BIGGEST CAUSE OF DEATH. THE DEAD MAN'S RELATIVES GAVE US THEIR MOBILE PHONE VIDEO, CLEARLY SHOWING THE BULLET WOUNDS. "I DON'T KNOW WHO TO BLAME," SAID HIS UNCLE. BOTH THE ARMY AND THE INTERIOR MINISTRY SAY IT WASN'T THEM BUT THE KILLING CONTINUES. AND THE MORE COFFINS, THE MORE LIKELY IT IS THAT EGYPT'S CYCLE OF VIOLENCE CARRIES ON AND EVEN MORE FAITH IN EGYPT'S RULERS EBBS AWAY.

>> Suarez: IN ANOTHER ARAB NATION-- THE ISLAND KINGDOM OF BAHRAIN-- A PANEL CHARGED WITH INVESTIGATING ABUSES FOUND THAT GOVERNMENT AGENTS USED EXCESSIVE FORCE TO SUPPRESS PROTESTS EARLIER THIS YEAR. WE'LL HAVE MORE ON BAHRAIN LATER IN THE PROGRAM. ALSO COMING UP: THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES DEBATE AND AN INTERVIEW WITH REPRESENTATIVE MICHELE BACHMANN. PLUS, THE TINY MUSSEL THREATENING THE GREAT LAKES. BUT FIRST, THE OTHER NEWS OF THE DAY. HERE'S HARI SREENIVASAN.

>> Sreenivasan: THE PRESIDENT OF TURKEY TODAY WARNED THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT'S DEADLY CRACKDOWN ON OPPOSITION COULD BRING TURMOIL TO THE ENTIRE REGION. PRESIDENT ABDULLAH GUL SAID SYRIA HAS COME TO A POINT OF NO RETURN. SECURITY FORCES COULD BE SEEN PATROLLING THE STREETS OF SEVERAL CITIES TODAY. PROTESTERS NEAR DAMASCUS BURNED TIRES TO BLOCK THE TROOPS FROM REACHING THEM. THE UNITED NATIONS HAS REPORTED SOME 3,500 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED IN THE EIGHT-MONTH-LONG UPRISING. RUSSIAN PRESIDENT DMITRY MEDVEDEV HAD A WARNING FOR THE U.S. TODAY OVER ITS MISSILE DEFENSE PROGRAM. HE SAID RUSSIA MIGHT TARGET U.S. MISSILE SHIELD SITES IN EUROPE UNLESS THE U.S. GUARANTEES THE WEAPONS ARE NOT TARGETING RUSSIAN NUCLEAR FORCES. IN MOSCOW, MEDVEDEV ALSO WARNED RUSSIA COULD OPT OUT OF THE NEW "START" ARMS CONTROL DEAL WITH THE U.S.

>> ( translated ): RUSSIA RETAINS THE RIGHT TO REFUSE TO TAKE ANY FURTHER STEPS TOWARDS DISARMAMENT AND CORRESPONDINGLY OVER REARMAMENT. FURTHER TO THIS, TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE DIRECT LINKS BETWEEN STRATEGIC OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE WEAPONS, THE CIRCUMSTANCES COULD ARISE IN WHICH WE HAD GROUNDS TO PULL OUT OF THE "START" TREATY.

>> Sreenivasan: A WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN TODAY SAID THE U.S. IS FORGING AHEAD WITH ITS IMPLEMENTATION OF THE MISSILE SHIELD AND SEES NO BASIS FOR THE THREATS TO WITHDRAW FROM IT. THE WORLD NUMBER TWO IN MOBILE NETWORKS IS SLASHING 17,000 JOBS AROUND THE WORLD. NOKIA SIEMENS PLANS TO ELIMINATE THE POSITIONS BY 2013 TO CUT MORE THAN A BILLION DOLLARS IN COSTS. THE LAYOFFS AMOUNT TO NEARLY A QUARTER OF NOKIA SIEMEN'S WORK FORCE. THE FINNISH-GERMAN COMPANY NOW PLANS TO FOCUS MORE ON ITS MOBILE BROADBAND NETWORK AND SERVICES MARKET. JUST AS THE HOLIDAY SHOPPING SEASON KICKS OFF, THE U.S. ECONOMY GOT A MIXED BATCH OF NEWS. CONSUMERS BARELY INCREASED THEIR SPENDING IN OCTOBER, BUT AMERICANS' PAY ROSE BY THE MOST IN SEVEN MONTHS. CONTINUING CONCERNS OVER THE EUROPEAN DEBT CRISIS PUSHED STOCKS ON WALL STREET DOWN TODAY. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE LOST 236 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 11,257. THE NASDAQ FELL 61 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 2,460. JUST AS THE HOLIDAY SHOPPING THE CAPITAL CITY OF PENNSYLVANIA HARRISBURG IS NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED TO SEEK BANKRUPTCY PROTECTION. A FEDERAL BANKRUPTCY JUDGE MADE THAT RULING TODAY. THE CITY HAS MORE THAN $300 MILLION OF DEBT TIED TO LAWSUITS OVER ITS 40-YEAR-OLD TRASH INCINERATOR. THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED THE BANKRUPTCY DECLARATION IN OCTOBER, AGAINST THE MAYOR'S WISHES. THE HEAD OF MEDICARE RESIGNED TODAY. HE STEPPED DOWN AFTER SENATE REPUBLICANS WERE ABLE TO BLOCK HIS CONFIRMATION. THE HARVARD PROFESSOR HAS BEEN TASKED WITH CARRYING OUT OBAMA'S HEALTH CARE LAW. A NEW STUDY FOUND EVIDENCE EATING CANNED SOUPS SENDS LEVELS OF THE COMMON CHEMICAL B.P.A. SOARING. THE CHEMICAL LINES SOUP CANS AND MANY OTHER FOOD CONTAINERS. THE STUDY WAS TUB LISHED IN THE "JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION." IT FOUND PEOPLE WHO ATE A CAN OF SOUP A DAY FOR FIVE DAYS HAD MORE THAN TEN TIMES THE USUAL LEVELS OF B.P.A. IN THEIR URINE. THOSE WHO ATE SOUP MADE FROM FRESH INGREDIENTS HAD LEVEL MRS. INN LINE WITH THOSE OF THE AVERAGE AMERICAN. TRAVELERS TOOK TO THE ROADS, SKIES, AND RAILWAYS TODAY AHEAD OF THE THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY. A.A.A. ESTIMATES MORE THAN 42 MILLION AMERICANS WILL TRAVEL TO THEIR DESTINATIONS. THAT'S THE HIGHEST NUMBER SINCE THE START OF THE RECESSION. FOR SOME, THE JOURNEY WAS HAMPERED BY BAD WEATHER, SNOW, AND SLEET THAT FELL IN NEW ENGLAND AND UPSTATE NEW YORK, TRIGGERING POWER OUTAGES AND FLIGHT DELAYS. MEANWHILE, HEAVY RAINS SPAWNED FLOODING ACROSS PARTS OF THE EASTERN U.S. THOSE ARE THE DAY'S MAJOR STORIES, NOW BACK TO RAY.

>> Suarez: AND TO PRESIDENTIAL POLITICS. EIGHT REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES MET LAST NIGHT IN WASHINGTON FOR THEIR 11th DEBATE, WHICH CENTERED ON FOREIGN POLICY AND NATIONAL SECURITY. THE SHARP DIVISIONS AMONG THE REPUBLICAN HOPEFULS WERE CLEARLY ON DISPLAY AT LAST NIGHT'S ENCOUNTER, BROADCAST ON CNN. THE FIELD'S FRESHLY-MINTED LEADER IN THE POLLS, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE NEWT GINGRICH, WAS ASKED AS PRESIDENT WHAT HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN WITH THE MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS LIVING IN THE COUNTRY.

>> IF YOU'VE COME HERE RECENTLY, YOU HAVE NO TIES TO THIS COUNTRY, YOU OUGHT TO GO HOME. PERIOD. IF YOU'VE BEEN HERE 25 YEARS AND YOU GOT THREE KIDS AND TWO GRANDKIDS, YOU'VE BEEN PAYING TAXES AND OBEYING THE LAW, YOU BELONG TO A LOCAL CHURCH. I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEPARATE YOU FROM YOUR FAMILY, UPROOT YOU FORCEFULLY AND KICK YOU OUT.

>> Suarez: GINGRICH'S RESPONSE DREW CRITICISM FROM SOME OF HIS RIVALS, INCLUDING MINNESOTA CONGRESSWOMAN MICHELE BACHMANN AND FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR MITT ROMNEY.

>> WELL, I DON'T AGREE THAT YOU WOULD MAKE 11 MILLION WORKERS LEGAL, BECAUSE THAT, IN EFFECT, IS AMNESTY.

>> TO SAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO SAY TO THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE COME HERE ILLEGALLY THAT NOW YOU'RE ALL GOING TO GET TO STAY OR SOME LARGE NUMBER ARE GOING TO GET TO STAY AND BECOME PERMANENT RESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES, THAT WILL ONLY ENCOURAGE MORE PEOPLE TO DO THE SAME THING.

>> Suarez: ROMNEY ALSO CLASHED WITH FORMER UTAH GOVERNOR JON HUNTSMAN OVER THE PACE OF U.S. TROOP WITHDRAWALS FROM AFGHANISTAN.

>> WE DON'T WANT TO LITERALLY PULL UP STAKES AND RUN OUT OF TOWN AFTER THE EXTRAORDINARY INVESTMENT THAT WE'VE MADE. AND THAT MEANS WE SHOULD HAVE A GRADUAL TRANSITION OF HANDING OFF TO THE AFGHAN SECURITY FORCES THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN COUNTRY.

>> NOW, GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN, DO YOU AGREE WITH GOVERNOR ROMNEY THAT THE U.S. HAS TO STAY IN AFGHANISTAN AT THESE LEVELS?

>> NO, I... I TOTALLY DISAGREE. NOW, THE FACT THAT WE HAVE 100,000 TROOPS NATION-BUILDING IN AFGHANISTAN WHEN THIS NATION SO DESPERATELY NEEDS TO BE BUILT, WHEN, ON THE GROUND, WE DO NEED INTELLIGENCE GATHERING, NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. WE NEED A STRONG SPECIAL FORCES PRESENCE. WE NEED A DRONE PRESENCE. AND WE NEED SOME ONGOING TRAINING OF THE AFGHAN NATIONAL ARMY. BUT WE HAVEN'T DONE A VERY GOOD JOB DEFINING AND ARTICULATING WHAT THE END POINT IS IN AFGHANISTAN. AND I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE GETTING VERY TIRED ABOUT WHERE WE FIND OURSELVES TODAY. ( APPLAUSE )

>> Suarez: TEXAS GOVERNOR RICK PERRY AND MICHELE BACHMANN DISAGREED, MEANWHILE, OVER WHETHER THE U.S. SHOULD CONTINUE TO SEND AID TO PAKISTAN.

>> THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THEY'VE SHOWED US TIME AFTER TIME THAT THEY CAN'T BE TRUSTED. AND UNTIL PAKISTAN CLEARLY SHOWS THAT THEY HAVE AMERICA'S BEST INTERESTS IN MIND, I WOULD NOT SEND THEM ONE PENNY, PERIOD.

>> WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE GOVERNOR, I THINK THAT'S HIGHLY NAIVE, BECAUSE, AGAIN, WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE GROUND. THESE ARE NUCLEAR WEAPONS ALL ACROSS THIS NATION. AND, POTENTIALLY, AL QAIDA COULD GET HOLD OF THESE WEAPONS. THESE WEAPONS COULD FIND THEIR

>> Suarez: THE WAR ON TERROR AND ITS IMPACT ON CIVIL LIBERTIES ALSO REVEALED FISSURES AMONG THE CANDIDATES. FORMER PENNSYLVANIA SENATOR RICK SANTORUM WAS PRESSED ON HIS SUPPORT FOR PROFILING TERROR SUSPECTS.

>> WHO WOULD BE PROFILED?

>> WELL, THE FOLKS WHO ARE MOST LIKELY TO BE COMMITTING THESE CRIMES. OBVIOUSLY, MUSLIMS WOULD BE... WOULD BE SOMEONE YOU'D LOOK AT, ABSOLUTELY. THOSE ARE THE FOLKS WHO ARE-- THE RADICAL MUSLIMS ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE COMMITTING THESE CRIMES, AS WE'VE-- BY AND LARGE, AS WELL AS YOUNGER MALES.

>> Suarez: TEXAS CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL WARNED THAT WOULD SET A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT.

>> THAT'S DIGGING A HOLE FOR OURSELVES. WHAT IF THEY LOOK LIKE TIMOTHY McVEIGH? YOU KNOW, HE WAS A PRETTY TOUGH CRIMINAL. I THINK WE'RE USING TOO MUCH CARELESSNESS IN THE USE OF WORDS THAT WE'RE AT WAR. I DON'T REMEMBER VOTING ON... ON A DECLARED-- DECLARATION OF WAR. OH, WE'RE AGAINST TERRORISM. ( APPLAUSE ) AND TERRORISM IS A TACTIC. IT ISN'T A PERSON. IT ISN'T A PEOPLE.

>> Suarez: PAUL ALSO TRADED BLOWS WITH BUSINESSMAN HERMAN CAIN, WHO SAID HE WOULD SUPPORT POSSIBLE MILITARY ACTION BY ISRAEL AGAINST IRAN TO PREVENT TEHRAN FROM ACQUIRING A NUCLEAR WEAPON.

>> IF ISRAEL HAD A CREDIBLE PLAN THAT IT APPEARED AS IF THEY COULD SUCCEED, I WOULD SUPPORT ISRAEL, YES. AND IN SOME INSTANCES, DEPENDING UPON HOW STRONG THE PLAN IS, WE WOULD JOIN WITH ISRAEL FOR THAT, IF IT WAS CLEAR WHAT THE MISSION WAS AND IT WAS CLEAR WHAT THE DEFINITION OF VICTORY WAS.

>> ISRAEL HAS 200, 300 NUCLEAR MISSILES. AND THEY CAN TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES. WHY SHOULD WE COMMIT-- WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A TREATY WITH ISRAEL. WHY DO WE HAVE THIS AUTOMATIC COMMITMENT THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEND OUR KIDS AND SEND OUR MONEY ENDLESSLY TO ISRAEL?

>> Suarez: AND WITH JUST SIX WEEKS TO GO UNTIL THE IOWA CAUCUSES, THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE CANDIDATES ARE LIKELY TO BECOME MORE DEFINED. ARI SHAPIRO OF NPR WAS AT LAST NIGHT'S DEBATE, AND JOINS US NOW. LET'S SET THE STAGE A LITTLE BIT. MOST PREVIOUS DEBATES WERE HELD IN EARLY PRIMARY STATES. THIS ONE IN WASHINGTON, D.C. DID IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

>> YEAH. AND THE AUDIENCE WAS DIFFERENT, TOO. FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE HAD QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE, WE HAD A YES FROM A FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY, A FORMER REPUBLICAN ATTORNEY GENERAL, A DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY. SO AS A RESULT I THINK YOU SAW THE CANDIDATES NOT NECESSARILY GIVING SO MUCH RED MEAT THAT SOME OF THE BASE VOTERS WOULD BE ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT. THE AUDIENCE SEEMED TO RESPOND MORE, I THINK, TO SUBSTANCE THAN SOME OF THE SHOW BECAUSE THESE WERE THE WASHINGTON INSIDERS IN THE AUDIENCE, THE WASHINGTON INSIDERS THAT SO MANY OF THE CANDIDATES HAVE TRIED TO SHOW THEY ARE NOT RUNNING TO BE... YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE WHO WILL CHANGE WASHINGTON FROM THE OUTSIDE.

>> Suarez: WHAT WERE THE STANDOUT MOMENTS OF LAST NIGHT'S PROGRAM?

>> I THINK PEOPLE WERE SURPRISED NEWT GINGRICH TOOK THE STANCE ON IMMIGRATION HE DID. THIS WAS THE FIRST DEBATE WHERE NEWT GINGRICH WAS IN THE LEAD IN SOME POLLS AND HE COULD HAVE PLAYED IT SAFE BUT HE DIDN'T. YOU HEARD HIM TALK ABOUT THIS PLAN TO MAKE WORKERS WHO HAD BEEN IN THE UNITED STATES FOR A LONG TIME, HAD ROOTS, A FAMILY, A CLEAN TRACK RECORD, MAKE THEM LEGAL WITHOUT CITIZENS AND WASN'T THE ONLY TIME HE WENT AGAINST TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN ORTHODOXY. ONE MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE ASKED WHETHER HE WOULD RULE OUT CUTS TO DEFENSE BUDGET AS AN ATTEMPT TO REDUCE THE DEFICIT. HE SAID "NO, I WON'T RULE IT OUT. IF WE'RE IN AN AGE WHERE IT TAKES 15 TO 20 YEARS TO DEVELOP A NEW WEAPON AND APPLE COMES OUT WITH A NEW TECHNOLOGY EVERY NINE MONTH THERE IS MIGHT BE SOMETHING WRONG HERE AND MAYBE WE SHOULD CUT THE DEPARTMENT BUDGET." THOSE WERE RISKY POSITIONS FOR A FRONT-RUNNER LIKE NEWT GINGRICH TO TAKE.

>> Suarez: WHEN GOVERNOR PERRY MADE A SIMILAR DECLARATION AT THE A DEBATE IN FLORIDA HE WAS BOOED AND FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL DAYS HIS OPPONENTS CAPITALIZED ON THAT STATEMENT. COULD IT HURT NEWT GOING RICH?

>> IT COULD DEFINITELY HURT NEWT GINGRICH THE SAME WAY. ONE KEY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT RICK PERRY SAID IN THAT EARLIER DEBATE AND WHAT NEWT GINGRICH SAID, RICK PERRY USED THE WORD HEART TLOS DESCRIBE PEOPLE WHO DISAGREED WITH HIM. NEWT GINGRICH WAS VOCAL. HE SAID I DON'T KNOW HOW THE PARTY THAT DEFENDS FAMILY CAN JUSTIFY DIVIDING FAMILIES BUT HE DIDN'T CALL HIS OPPONENTS HEARTLESS. THAT MAY BE A DIFFERENCE BUT THIS COULD HURT NEWT GINGRICH WITH THE BASE. WE'LL HAVE TO SEE THE FALL YACHT.

>> Suarez: THERE WERE SEVERAL TOUGH EXCHANGES ABOUT GETTING OUT AND UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES AND HOW FAST FROM IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN. TELL ME ABOUT THOSE.

>> Reporter: JON HUNTSMAN AND MITT ROMNEY HAD ONE OF THE MOST HEATING EXCHANGES WHERE WE SAW FORMER UTAH GOVERNOR JON HUNTSMAN SAYING "WE ACCOMPLISHED A LOT IN AFGHANISTAN AND IT'S TIME TO START BRINGING TROOPS HOME." MITT ROMNEY AGGRESSIVELY SAID "YOU WANT TO PULL OUT TOMORROW?" HE DESCRIBED IT AS A CUT AND RUN APPROACH. JON HUNTSMAN SNAPPED BACK. I THINK JON HUNTSMAN WAS TRYING TO PROVE HIS FOREIGN POLICY BONA FIDES. OF EVERYBODY ON THE STAGE, HE'S THE ONE WITH THE MOST FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE AND THIS WAS HIS OPPORTUNITY TO DEMONSTRATE. THAT AND IT DIDN'T HURT FOR HIM TO ENGAGE HEAD ON WITH THE PERSON WHO HAS MORLS CONSISTENTLY BEEN THE FRONT-RUNNER SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE ELECTION PROCESS, MITT ROMNEY.

>> Suarez: HERE WAS A DEBATE ON FOREIGN POLICY AND NATIONAL SECURITY. WAS IT REMARKABLE IN A WAY FOR THE THINGS THAT WEREN'T DISCUSSD?

>> I WAS VERY SURPRISED THAT EUROPEAN DEBT CRISIS, THE EURO ZONE, DIDN'T COME UP ONCE. YOU KNOW, THE ECONOMY IS WHAT CONCERNS AMERICANS THE MOST RIGHT NOW. AND THE INTERNATIONAL ISSUE THAT COULD MOST AFFECT THE ECONOMY IS ARGUABLY THE EURO ZONE DEBT CRISIS. NOT MENTIONED ONCE. THERE WAS VERY LITTLE DISCUSSION OF CHINA WHICH I THINK IS A HUGELY IMPORTANT ISSUE. AND ALSO THE ARAB SPRING WAS TOUCHED ON A LITTLE BIT. IRAQ WAS TOUCHED ON A LITTLE BIT BUT NOT SO MUCH.

>> Suarez: AND CAN YOU TELL THINGS ARE CHANGING INSIDE THE RACE? POLITICIANS SAY THEY NEVER LOOK AT THE POLLS BUT CAN YOU TELL FROM A DEBATE SOMETHING IS HAPPENING IN THE FIELD?

>> YELL, YES. AND THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE MODERATOR. WHO GETS THE MOST QUESTIONS. I THOUGHT LAST NIGHT WAS MORE EVEN HANDED THAN THE OTHER DEBATES BUT INEVITABLY THE PERSON WHOSE HEAD POPS UP, WHETHER THAT'S MICHELE BACHMANN, RICK PERRY, HERMAN CAIN OR NOW NEWT GINGRICH GETS SOME MORE OF THE INCOMING AND ATTACKS. SO WE SAW FOR EXAMPLE WHEN NEWT GINGRICH MADE THAT ARGUMENT FOR GRANTING SOME PEOPLE LEGAL STATUS IN IMMIGRATION, MICHELE BACHMANN, MITT ROMNEY DID NOT HESITATE TO GO AFTER HIM.

>> Suarez: NPR'S ARI SHAPIRO, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> YOU, TOO, RAY.

>> Brown: AND THAT BRINGS US TO OUR INTERVIEW WITH MICHELE BACHMANN-- THE SIXTH IN OUR SERIES OF "VOTE 2012" CONVERSATIONS WITH THE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDERS. REPRESENTATIVE BACHMANN IS A THREE-TERM MINNESOTA CONGRESSWOMAN AND FOUNDER OF THE HOUSE TEA PARTY CAUCUS. WELCOME TO YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Brown: WHY DON'T WE START WITH THE SUBJECT OF IMMIGRATION. YOU'RE AGAINST A BROAD AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. BUT WHAT TO HIS SPECIFIC POINT? THAT EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN IN THE COUNTRY FOR 20 YEARS HAS CHILDREN, PERHAPS GRANDCHILDREN, PAID TAXES, LOTS OF LOCAL TIES. DOES THAT PERSON HAVE TO BE SENT BACK TO HIS HOME COUNTRY?

>> WELL, THAT'S THE EXTREME EXAMPLE. THAT ISN'T THE TYPICAL ILLEGAL ALIEN IN THE UNITED STATES. THIS IS A REAL COST TO THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER. IT'S $113 BILLION EVERY YEAR. AND THAT BREAKS DOWN TO A THOUSAND DOLLARS PER HOUSEHOLD. IT'S A VERY REAL COST. AND WHEN WE DON'T HAVE THE SOUTHERN BORDERS SECURE WE HAVE A NARCO TERRORISM WAR AND IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT. WE HAVE 59,000 OTHER THAN MEXICANS THAT CAME ACROSS OUR BORDER LAST YEAR. SOME OF WHOM COME FROM COUNTRIES THAT ARE STATE SPONSORS OF TERROR. WE HAVE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. REGARDING PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE COUNTRY, WE NEED TO UPHOLD THE LAWS OF THE LAND AND I THINK WHAT SPEAKER GINGRICH HAS SAID IN ITS PRIOR COMMENTS ARE THIS, AND I THINK THAT'S WHY HE HAS A "D THE-" ON HIS REPORT CARD. HE HAS SAID WE SHOULD MAKE THE 11 MILLION ILLEGAL WORKERS IN THIS COUNTRY LEGAL. HE'S ALSO SAID HE'S A BACKER OF THE FEDERAL DREAM ACTS WHICH TAXPAYER SUBSIDIZED COLLEGE BENEFITS FOR CHILDREN OF ILLEGAL ALIENS. THOSE ARE POWERFUL MAGNETS AND HE PROBABLY HAS THE MOST LIBERAL POSITION ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION OF ANY OF THE CANDIDATES IN THE RACE.

>> Brown: BUT YOU WOULD NOT DRAW DISTINCTION BETWEEN THESE 11 MILLION? SOMETIMES THE EXTREME EXAMPLE IS USEFUL TO THINK ABOUT WHERE DISTINCTIONS SHOULD BE DRAWN.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT WE'LL DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE AS IT COMES FORWARD. BUT WE KNOW WHAT SPEAKER GINGRICH'S POSITION IS. HE SAID QUITE CLEARLY HE WOULD MAKE LEGAL 11 MILLION ILLEGAL WORKERS. NO OTHER CANDIDATE GOES THAT EXTREME.

>> Brown: ANOTHER SUBJECT LAST NIGHT WAS TERRORISM AND CIVIL LIBERTIES. YOU SAID OF PRESIDENT OBAMA "HE HAS ESSENTIALLY HANDED OVER OUR INTERROGATION OF TERRORISTS TO THE A.C.L.U. HE'S OUTSOURCED IT TO THEM. OUR C.I.A. HAS NO ABILITY TO HAVE ANY FORM OF INTERROGATION FOR TERRORISTS." NOW, DO YOU MEAN THAT LITERALLY? BECAUSE THE C.I.A. IS ABLE TO TALK TO TERRORISTS, RIGHT?

>> WELL, ALL WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO US TODAY ARMY FIELD MANUAL. THAT'S POSTED ONLINE. PEOPLE WHO ARE POTENTIAL TERRORISTS OR TERRORISTS HAVE THE ABILITY TO READ AHEAD OF TIME EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THEM IF THEY ARE CAPTURED ON THE BATTLEFIELD. THAT'S ALL WE HAVE. WE DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER INTERROGATION THAT'S AVAILABLE THROUGH THE C.I.A.. IS THAT'S LIKE PUTTING HANDCUFFS ON THE UNITED STATES WHEN IT COMES TO OUR INTELLIGENCE. NOT ONLY THAT, WE DON'T HAVE JAILS THE WAY WE USED TO. HERE WE ARE ON THE BATTLEFIELD. SO IF WE CAPTURED ENEMY COMBATANTS, WE HAVE TO OPTIONS: WE CAN EITHER KILL THEM OR WE CAN RELEASE THEM. WHAT WE NEED....

>> Brown: BUT WHAT WHAT ABOUT GOVERNOR PATRICK? ISN'T THAT A PLACE WHERE WE TAKE TERRORISTS?

>> NOT ANYMORE. WE AREN'T USING GUANTANAMO BAY TO TAKE ADDITIONAL TERRORISTS. THAT WAS THE PERFECT FACILITY TO USE... TO EXTRACT INFORMATION FROM PEOPLE TO KEEP THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SAFE. THAT WAS WHOLE PURPOSE TO GAIN INFORMATION AND THAT'S WHAT... THAT'S MY FALLBACK. WE HAVE TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES. THIS IS A REAL WAR. THE TERRORISTS SEE THIS AS A REAL WAR. WE HAVE TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT OUR SAFETY. IF WE HAVEN'T LEARNED THAT FROM 9/11, I DON'T KNOW WHEN WE'LL LEARN THAT.

>> Brown: WOULD YOU NOT GIVE THE PRESIDENT CREDIT FOR IN SOME WAYS GIVING THE C.I.A. MORE POWER THAN IN THE PAST THROUGH, FOR EXAMPLE, THE DRONE ATTACKS IN PAKISTAN? INCLUDING SOME THAT HAVE KILLED AMERICANS AND THAT WERE HEAVILY CRITICIZED BY CIVIL LIBERTIES GROUPS LIKE THE A.C.L.U.?

>> WELL, REMEMBER, IT WAS THE PRESIDENT WHO WANTED TO PROSECUTE OUR OWN C.I.A. INTERROGATORS FOR DOING THEIR JOBS. WHICH IS GAINING INFORMATION THAT WOULD BE USEFUL TO OUR MILITARY. THAT WAS INCOMPREHENSIBLE THAT HE'D WANT TO DO THAT. HE ALSO WANTED TO TRY KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED, THE ADMITTED MASTERMIND WHO SAID HE IS GUILTY OF PLANNING THE 9/11 ATTACKS, HE ADMITTED HIS GUILTY, HE WANTED TO GIVE HIM A CIVILIAN TRIAL IN LOWER MANHATTAN, ESSENTIALLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM WHERE WHERE KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED REALIZED HIS DREAM AND KILLED 3 INNOCENT AMERICANS. SHOCKING.

>> Brown: BUT THE DRONE ATTACKS? DO YOU SUPPORT SNOWS

>> WELL, I ADMIT... I AGREE THE PRESIDENT HAS MADE TACTICAL GOOD... SOME GOOD TACTICAL DECISIONS. HE MADE A GOOD DECISION ON THE USE OF DRONES, HE ALSO MADE A GOOD DECISION TO TAKE OUT BIN LADEN AND ALSO AL-AWLAKI WHO WAS THE CHIEF RECRUITER OF MAJOR HASSAN THE FORT HOOD SHOOTER AND I APPRECIATE THAT. BUT HE'S MADE POWERFULLY STRATEGIC BLUNDERS THAT WILL BE FELT FOR YEARS INTO THE FUTURE. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

>> Brown: SWITCHING SUBJECTS HERE, DOMESTIC. TODAY WAS THE ORIGINAL DEADLINE FOR THE SO-CALLED SUPERCOMMITTEE. IT DIDN'T REACH A DEAL. YOU CRITICIZED THE PRESIDENT FOR LACK OF LEADERSHIP ON THAT. WHAT WOULD PRESIDENT BACHMANN HAVE DONE TO FORCE A DEAL?

>> WELL, LAST SUMMER WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT RAISING... CONGRESS'S ABILITY TO BORROW MORE MONEY, I WOULD HAVE DRAWN A LINE IN THE SAND AND I WOULD HAVE SAT DOWN WITH THE 535 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND I WOULD HAVE SAID, LOOK, WE'RE IN A LOT OF TROUBLE. WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS PAY THE INTEREST ON THE DEBT AND LET THE RATINGS AGENCIES KNOW WE WILL NOT DEFAULT ON OUR DEBT BUT WE'RE GOING TO PRIORITIZE OUR SPENDING NOW, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BORROW ANY MORE MONEY. WE'RE GOING TO PRIORITIZE. WE'RE GOING TO REPAIR OUR ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS NOW, NOT LATER,ECAUSE THE PROBLEM IS NOW. AND WE'RE GOING TO PRIORITIZE THE SPENDING. THIS IS WHY WE HAVE TO. I CAME INTO CONGRESS FOUR AND A HALF YEARS AGO. WHEN I CAME IN THE NATIONAL DEBT WAS AT $8.67 TRILLION. TODAY THE DEBT IS $15 TRILLION. IT TOOK US 219 YEARS TO ACQUIRE $8.67 TRILLION AND ONLY FOUR AND A HALF MORE YEARS TO GET TO $15 TRILLION. THE SUPERCOMMITTEE, ALL THEY HAD TO DO IS PULL BACK ON A... WE WERE GOING TO HAVE AN ESTIMATED $8.5 TRILLION IN DEBT. ALL THEY HAD TO DO IS BACK OFF OF $1.2 TRILLION OF THAT INCREASE IN DEBT. WE ARE LOOKING AT AN ECONOMIC COLLAPSE IN OUR FUTURE IF WE DON'T GET OUR DEBT PROBLEM UNDER CONTROL.

>> Brown: WITH DUE RESPECT, EVERYBODY COMES IN AND SAYS "I WOULD SIT DOWN WITH ALL T MEMBERS OF CONGRESS."

>> PRESIDENT OBAMA DIDN'T DO THAT. PRESIDENT OBAMA HAD NO PLAN LAST SUMMER TO SOLVE THE DEBT. HE WAS AWOL. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE THE PRESIDENT, HE WAS LIKE WHERE'S WALDO. HE WAS MISSING IN ACTION LAST SUMMER. HE WAS OUT OF THE COUNTRY IN ASIA WHEN THE SUPERCOMMITTEE HAD TO MAKE THEIR DECISION. HE'S FAILED TO SHOW UP AND EXERCISE LEADERSHIP. HE'S BLAMED EVERYONE. HE'S VERY GOOD AT THAT. BUT HE'S FAILED TO EXERCISE LEADERSHIP. I'M VERY DIFFERENT. I WOULD BE ENGAGED. I WOULD BE INVOLVED AND I WOULD HAVE A PLAN.

>> Brown: YOU USE VERY STRONG LANGUAGE IN RHETORIC AND YOUR SPEECHES AND NOW I'VE HAD A CHANCE TO GO THROUGH YOUR BOOK. VERY LARGED LANGUAGE SOMETIMES. YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE, BUT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT WITH YOU.

>> I THINK THAT COULD EASILY BE SAID OF THE PRESIDENT AS WELL.

>> Brown: WELL, LET ME ASK YOU. IF I HAVE HIM HERE, I'LL HAVE HIM. YOU REFER TO GANGSTER GOVERNMENT. BAILOUT SOCIALISM. THERE'S A LINE IN HERE REFERRING TO THE LAST ELECTION, YOU SAY "I DIDN'T FAVOR HILLARY, OF COURSE, BUT I COULD SEE SHE SEEMED LESS LEFTIST REVOLUTIONARY THAN OBAMA." NOW, WHAT I'M GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT IS A VALUES QUESTION ABOUT POLITICAL AND CIVIL DISCOURSE. HOW DO WE TALK TO ONE ANOTHER IF WE USE THAT KIND OF LANGUAGE AT A TIME WHEN IT SEEMS SO PEOPLE ARE SO WARY AND UPSET ABOUT WASHINGTON POLITICS?

>> WELL, BECAUSE I THINK THOSE STATEMENTS ARE ACCURATE. I USE THE TERM GANGSTER GOVERNMENT BECAUSE PRESIDENT OBAMA PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA THROUGH AUTOMOBILE TASK FORCE SENT 3,400 PINK SLIPS TO PRIVATELY OWNED AUTOMOBILE DEALERSHIPS AND EFFECTIVELY SAID YOU'VE LOST YOUR PROPERTY RIGHTS AND YOUR DEALERSHIP AND YOU WERE L NO LONGER HAVE YOUR FRANCHISE WITHIN 30 DAYS HACHLT THAT'S SHOCKING WITHIN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA SOMEONE WHO OWNS A BUSINESS IS TOLD BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT "YOU'RE OUT OF BUSINESS"? THAT'S A GANGSTER ACTION ON THE PART OF OUR GOVERNMENT AND I CALLED IT FOR WHAT IT WAS. THAT'S NOT THE FIRST ACTION THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS TAKEN. IT'S ONLY ONE OF MANY. AND I THINK SOLYNDRA IS PROBABLY THE POSTER CHILD OF CRONY CAPITALISM WHERE YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES PUTTING ONE OF HIS CHIEF FUND-RAISERS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY FOR THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE OF POINTING OUT WHICH OF THE LOAN APPLICATIONS BELONG TO ONE OF ITS POLITICAL DONORS THEN LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE GIVEN TO THAT POLITICAL DONOR'S COMPANY.

>> Brown: BUT WHEN YOU USE...

>> ...IN EXCHANGE FOR GIVING DONATIONS TO THE PRESIDENT. THIS IS A HUGE SCANDAL AND THAT'S... THAT'S... THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN'T HAVE.

>> Brown: BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO THE POLICIES, YOU'RE SUGGESTING BY THAT KIND OF LANGUAGE THE MOTIVE, ACTUALLY, OF THE PRESIDENT.

>> WELL, IT'S CORRUPT. IT'S ABSOLUTE CORRUPTION. YOU CAN'T TAKE MONEY FROM THE TAXPAYERS OUT OF THE TREASURY TO GIVE IT TO PAY OFF YOUR POLITICAL DONORS. THAT'S CORRUPTION TO DO THAT.

>> Brown: LET ME ASK YOU BEFORE WE LEAVE. YOU HAVE A VICTIM QUESTION, I GUESS, HANGING AROUND YOU. YOU STARTED WITH A LOT OF SUPPORT, IT WON'T DOWN IN VARIOUS POLLS, 4%, 5%, 6%. WHY DO YOU THINK YOU CAN STILL GET THE NOMINATION AND HOW IMPORTANT IS IOWA... A WIN IN IOWA FAR?

>> WELL, I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE WE CAN WIN IN IOWA. THAT'S ON JANUARY 3 AND WE'VE IDENTIFIED ALREADY MORE SUPPORTERS THAN EVEN MIKE HUCKABEE HAD WHEN HE WON ON CAUCUS NIGHT. NOW OUR PLAN IS TO MOBILIZE AND GET THEM OUT TO CAUCUS NIGHT. BUT WHAT WE ALSO KNOW IS THAT 70% OF THE VOTERS ARE UNDECIDED. THEY DON'T MAKE THEIR MINDS UP UNTIL THE END AND IT'S BEEN LIKE A... THE STOCK MARKET HAS BEEN UP AND DOWN, THIS HAS BEEN A POLITICAL STOCK MARKET. CANDIDATES GO UP; CANDIDATES GO DOWN. BUT I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY'RE GOING TO COME HOME BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING SEE I'M THE ONLY TRUE, CONSISTENT CONSTITUTIONAL CONSERVATIVE IN THE RACE AND THEY WANT SOMEONE WHO HASN'T FLIP-FLOPPED. I HAVE A CORE OF CONVICTIONS JUST LIKE THE TITLE OF MY BOOK AND I WANT TO URGE YOUR VIEWERS ALSO TO GO TO MICHELE BACHMANN.COM TO LEARN ABOUT WHAT I AM AND STAND FOR IN AN UNFILTERED VOICE. YOU CAN GET IT AT MY WEB SITE. YOU FIND OUT WHAT MY TRUE MOTIVATION IS AND WHY I HAVE THE BEST PLAN TO BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE A MOM IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> Brown: ALL RIGHT, MICHELE BACHMANN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, JEFF.

>> Suarez: SO FAR, WE HAVE BROUGHT YOU INTERVIEWS WITH TEXAS CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL, BUSINESSMAN HERMAN CAIN, FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR MITT ROMNEY, FORMER UTAH GOVERNOR JON HUNTSMAN, AND FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER NEWT GINGRICH. YOU CAN SEE ALL THOSE CONVERSATIONS ON OUR WEB SITE. AND WE HOPE TO TALK WITH THE REMAINING REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDERS IN THE COMING WEEKS.

>> Brown: NEXT, THE STORY OF A TINY INVADER DOING BIG DAMAGE TO THE GREAT LAKES. ASHAR QURAISHI OF WTTW CHICAGO REPORTS.

>> Reporter: IT'S JUST AFTER DAWN IN NORTHERN WISCONSIN. COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN DENNIS HICKEY IS GETTING READY TO TAKE HIS FISHING BOAT OUT ON LAKE MICHIGAN. HICKEY'S FAMILY HAS FISHED THESE WATERS FOR MORE THAN A CENTURY. THE GREAT LAKES, WHICH HOLD MORE THAN 20% OF THE WORLD'S FRESHWATER SUPPORT A $7 BILLION A YEAR COMMERCIAL AND RECREATIONAL FISHING INDUSTRY.

>> OUR MAINSTAY OF OUR FISHERY IN BAILEY'S HARBOR IS WHITEFISH, LAKE MICHIGAN WHITEFISH.

>> Reporter: TODAY HICKEY'S LUCKY, HE WON'T BE BATTLING THE ELEMENTS TO BRING IN A CATCH. IT IS UNSEASONABLY WARM ON THIS LATE AUTUMN MORNING. BUT HE DOES HAVE TO DEAL WITH A PROBLEM THAT INCREASINGLY PLAGUES FISHERMEN THROUGHOUT THE GREAT LAKES AND THREATENS THEIR LIVELIHOODS.

>> LOOKS LIKE THE HEARTS HAVE QUITE A BIT OF MOSS AND SLIME IN THEM AGAIN.

>> Reporter: THE SLIME IS A TYPE OF ALGA CALLED CLADAPHORA, AND SOME SCIENTISTS THINK ITS EXTRAORDINARY INCREASE IN THE GREAT LAKES IS RELATED TO RECENT AND IRREPARABLE CHANGES IN THE MARINE ECOSYSTEM. THE CULPRIT, THEY SAY, IS A TINY INVASIVE MOLLUSK CALLED THE QUAGGA MUSSEL.

>> TO ME IT'S ONE OF THE WORST, IF NOT THE WORST.

>> Reporter: TOM NALEPA IS A RESEARCH BIOLOGIST WITH THE GREAT LAKES ENVIRONMENTAL RESEARCH LABORATORY AT THE NATIONAL OCEANIC AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION. FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS NALEPA AND HIS TEAM HAVE BEEN ASSESSING POPULATION TRENDS AND THE IMPACT OF THE MUSSEL INVASION ON THE GREAT LAKES.

>> THEY FIND CONDITIONS VERY SUITABLE AND JUST EXPLODE IN TERMS OF POPULATION NUMBERS. DURING THE PERIOD OF EXPONENTIAL GROWTH, THEY WREAK HAVOC ON OTHER ORGANISMS; THEY TAKE AWAY RESOURCES AND OUT-COMPETE NATIVE SPECIES.

>> THEY WRECK THE LIFE THAT'S IN THERE AND CREATE A NEW ECOSYSTEM THAT IS DANGEROUS FOR OUR HEALTH AND SAFETY IN FUNDAMENTALLY DEVASTATING WAYS. YOU CAN SEE IT HAPPENING IN LAKE ERIE. IT'S ON THE EDGE OF COLLAPSE.

>> Reporter: SCIENTISTS BELIEVE THE QUAGGA MUSSEL FIRST STOWED AWAY IN THE BALLAST WATER ON TRANSOCEANIC SHIPS FROM THE CASPIAN SEA. THE MUSSELS MADE THEIR WAY INTO THE LAKES WHEN THAT BALLAST WATER WAS PURGED. THE TINY FINGERNAIL SIZED MUSSELS CLOSELY RELATED TO ANOTHER INVASIVE, KNOWN AS THE ZEBRA MUSSEL, FIRST APPEARED IN LAKE WATERS HERE IN 1988.

>> THESE ARE TYPICAL QUAGGA MUSSELS IN LAKE MICHIGAN. THEY HAVE A LITTLE FLATTER SHELL.

>> Reporter: THE QUAGGA MUSSEL HAS BECOME THE MOST PERVASIVE AND DESTRUCTIVE INVASIVE SPECIES EVER TO ENTER THE GREAT LAKES. OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS, THE QUAGGA POPULATION HAS EXPLODED ECLIPSING THE ZEBRA MUSSEL AND INFECTING ALL FIVE OF THE GREAT LAKES. NALEPA ESTIMATES THERE ARE NOW 437 TRILLION IN LAKE MICHIGAN ALONE. AND THE REASON SCIENTISTS SAY THIS DOMINATING MUSSEL IS SO DESTRUCTIVE IS THAT IT IS WIPING OUT CRITICAL FOOD AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FOOD CHAIN, ORGANISMS LIKE PLANKTON-- THE MAIN FOOD SOURCE FOR A SHRIMP-LIKE ORGANISM KNOWN AS DIPOREIA.

>> IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT FISH FOOD ORGANISM, HENCE THIS HAS LED TO DECLINES IN THE GROWTH AND CONDITION OF FISH POPULATIONS THAT ONCE DEPENDED UPON DIPOREIA AS A FOOD SOURCE. SO IT'S LED TO KIND OF A CASCADING EFFECT FROM ONE SPECIES TO ANOTHER THROUGHOUT THE FOOD WEB. IN ADDITION TO ALTERING THE FOOD CHAIN IN THE GREAT LAKES, THESE MUSSELS ATTACH TO ALL TYPES OF SURFACES INCLUDING BOATS, BUOYS AND DOCKS. THEY CLOG WATER-INTAKE PIPES SOMETIMES CUTTING OFF DRINKING WATER SUPPLIES THAT REQUIRE EXPENSIVE REMEDIATION. WHICH IS WHY THE FINANCIAL IMPACT OF THESE TINY INVADERS IS STAGGERING. THE U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE ESTIMATES THE ECONOMIC LOSSES OVER THE LAST DECADE AT ABOUT $5 BILLION WITHIN THE GREAT LAKES REGION ALONE. AT THE DUSABLE HARBOR ON CHICAGOS LAKESHORE, OPERATIONS MANAGER KIRK KLEIST PULLS UP A DOCK ANCHOR CHAIN TO SHOW JUST US HOW PERVASIVE THE MUSSELS HAVE BECOME IN NEAR SHORE AREAS.

>> THEY LOAD UP SO MUCH. THEY CAUSE PROBLEMS.

>> Reporter: KLEIST, WHO HAS BEEN A DIVER FOR OVER THREE DECADES, SAYS HE'S SEEN THE CHANGES IN THE LAKE WATER CAUSED BY MUSSEL FILTERING AND HE SAYS IT'S DRAMATIC.

>> 30 YEARS AGO, YOU HAD FIVE- FOOT OF VISIBILITY AT THE MAX NOW I'VE SEEN 40 TO 60 FOOT OF VISIBILITY.

>> THE WATER CLARITY HAS INCREASED TWO OR THREE FOLD, JUST BECAUSE OF THE ABILITY OF MUSSELS TO FILTER ALL THE PARTICLES OUT OF THE WATER WHICH THEY USE AS FOOD. SO, IF YOU LIKE CLEAR WATER, CERTAINLY WHEN YOU LOOK OUT AT LAKE MICHIGAN YOU HAVE IT. BUT CLEAR WATER ALSO MEANS THERE'S NO FOOD IN THE WATER FOR ALL THE OTHER ORGANISMS.

>> Reporter: THE OTHER SIDE EFFECT OF EXCESS CLARITY CAUSED BY THE QUAGGA'S FILTERING IS THAT IT ENCOURAGES EXPLOSIVE ALGAL BLOOMS LIKE CLADOPHORA AND POTENTIALLY TOXIC ALGAE KNOWN AS MICROCYSTIS.

>> THEY ALLOW FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE LIFE OF THE GREAT LAKES SUNLIGHT TO PIERCE ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF THE LAKE FROM ERIE ON AND THAT CREATES THE ABILITY FOR TOXIC ALGAE TO GROW, WHICH IS POISONOUS AND ITS RETRO TO PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY. THESE IMAGES TAKEN BY NOAA AND THE U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY LAST MONTH REVEAL JUST HOW OVERWHELMING THE ALGAE HAVE BECOME IN THE GREAT LAKES. A REPORT PUBLISHED BY THE NATIONAL WILDLIFE FEDERATION CALLED THE TOXIC ALGAL BLOOM THAT INFESTED LAKE ERIE'S WESTERN BASIN THIS YEAR AND CAUSED MASS BEACH CLOSINGS-- THE MOST HARMFUL IN RECORDED HISTORY.

>> WHEN THE CLADOPHORA WASHES UP ON BEACHES THEY OFTEN HARBOR PROBLEMATIC BACTERIA INCLUDING BOTULISM TOXIN WHICH THEN CAN NEGATIVELY IMPACT FISH AND BIRDS THAT CONSUME SOMEWHERE IN THE FOOD WEB.

>> Reporter: MICHAEL MURRAY IS A STAFF SCIENTIST WITH THE NATIONAL WILDLIFE FEDERATIONS GREAT LAKES OFFICE IN ANN ARBOR, MICHIGAN AND CO-AUTHORED THE REPORT. MURRAY SAYS THE GREAT LAKES ARE EXPERIENCING BOTH FEAST AND FAMINE BECAUSE WHILE ALGAE IS GROWING IN RECORD AMOUNTS IN COASTAL AREAS, THERE IS ALSO THE FORMATION OF NUTRIENT DESERTS IN OFFSHORE WATERS, WHICH

>> SO THE OVERALL EFFECT IS, WERE STILL SEEING A LOT OF NUTRIENTS IN THE NEAR-SHORE AREAS, MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH ALGAL BLOOMS, CLADOPHORA, THOSE TYPES OF PROBLEMS. AND THEN IN THE OFFSHORE AREAS NOT ENOUGH NUTRIENTS, AND MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH THE FISHERIES THERE.

>> Reporter: BECAUSE OF THE DRASTIC CHANGES IN THE GREAT LAKES OVER THE LAST TWO DECADES COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN SAY THEY'VE HAD TO ADAPT. TODAY, THEY'RE FORCED TO GO FURTHER AND FURTHER OUT INTO THE LAKES, JUST TO GET A GOOD CATCH. WHEN THE WIND BLOWS, HICKEY SAYS, WHEN THAT HAPPENS, THE LIVE ENTRAPMENT NETS BECOME EASIER FOR FISH TO SEE AND AVOID. HICKEY AND HIS CREW HAVE TO SPEND PRECIOUS TIME AND MONEY TO PULL OUT THE NETS AND CLEAN THEM.

>> WELL, IT GETS WORSE EVERY YEAR. THE LAST FIVE YEARS, IT'S BEEN INCREASING.

>> Reporter: SCRAWNY FISH AND TOO MUCH ALGAE HAVE BECOME GAME CHANGERS FOR MANY SMALLER COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN IN THE AREA.

>> THE SMALLER FISHERMAN JUST PLAIN DECIDED TO SELL OUT AND JUST GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS.

>> Reporter: AND THE FUTURE OF COMMERCIAL FISHERIES LOOKS BLEAK BECAUSE SCIENTISTS SAY REMOVING THE MUSSELS FROM THE LAKE IS IMPOSSIBLE.

>> QUAGGA MUSSELS ARE GOING TO BE WITH US NOW FOREVER. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF AT WHAT ABUNDANCE DOES THE POPULATION STABILIZE, AND THAT'S THE KEY.

>> Reporter: SCIENTISTS AND ACTIVISTS SAY THAT WHILE THE FOCUS MUST SHIFT TO PREVENTING THE INTRODUCTION AND SPREAD OF NEW INVASIVE SPECIES INTO THE GREAT LAKES THE DESTRUCTION UNDERWAY BY THE QUAGGA MUSSEL NOW SERVES AS A PAINFUL CAUTIONARY TALE.

>> Suarez: FINALLY TONIGHT, WE COME BACK TO THE ARAB SPRING UPRISINGS. THIS TIME IN THE PERSIAN GULF. MARGARET WARNER HAS OUR STORY.

>> Warner: YOUNG PEOPLE AND POLICE CLASHED IN BAHRAIN AGAIN TODAY. THE SKIRMISHES CAME AS AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION RELEASED ITS FINDINGS ON THE UPHEAVALS THAT SHOOK THE TINY GULF KINGDOM EARLIER THIS YEAR. THE DEMONSTRATIONS LED BY BAHRAIN'S SHIITE MAJORITY BEGAN FEBRUARY 14 IN THE CAPITAL MANAMA'S CENTRAL PEARL ROUNDABOUT. PROTESTERS CALLED FOR GREATER POLITICAL FREEDOMS AND MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE SHIITE MAJORITY. THE POLICE AND ARMY REACTED QUICKLY AND FORCEFULLY AGAINST THE PROTESTORS IN THE ROUNDABOUT, KILLING THREE. BUT DESPITE THE CRACKDOWN AND ARRESTS THAT FOLLOWED, THE PROTESTS DIDN'T ENTIRELY STOP. THIS OIL-PRODUCING KINGDOM OF THREE-QUARTERS OF A MILLION PEOPLE IS SANDWICHED BETWEEN THE TWO MAJOR GULF POWERS-- SUNNI- RULED SAUDI ARABIA AND SHIITE- RULED IRAN. ON MARCH 14, AMID A CONTINUING STANDOFF, BAHRAIN'S ROYAL FAMILY WELCOMED 1,000 TROOPS AND DOZENS OF MILITARY VEHICLES FROM SAUDI ARABIA AND THE GULF EMIRATES ONTO THE ISLAND. WITHIN DAYS, BAHRAINI FORCES DROVE ALL THE PROTESTORS OUT OF THE ROUNDABOUT, USING BULLDOZERS TO CLEAR THE AREA, AND EVEN TORE DOWN THE LANDMARK PEARL MONUMENT ITSELF. A STATE OF EMERGENCY WAS LIFTED IN JUNE, BUT POLITICAL DEADLOCK AND SPORADIC PROTESTS CONTINUED. IN JULY, KING HAMAD BIN ISA AL KHALIFA ORDERED AN INDEPENDENT INQUIRY INTO THE EVENTS IN FEBRUARY AND MARCH AND THE MONTHS THAT FOLLOWED. LEADING THE INVESTIGATION WAS EGYPTIAN-AMERICAN LAW PROFESSOR CHERIF BASSIOUNI, A VETERAN OF UNITED NATIONS HUMAN RIGHTS INVESTIGATIONS. TODAY, HIS BAHRAIN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION OF INQUIRY RELEASED ITS 500 PAGE REPORT INTO THE EVENTS THAT HAVE RESULTED IN THE DEATHS OF 35 PEOPLE. AMONG THE KEY FINDINGS: IN RESPONSE, THE KING SAID TODAY: "YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED SERIOUS SHORTCOMINGS ON THE PART OF SOME ORGANS OF OUR GOVERNMENT, PARTICULARLY IN FAILING TO PREVENT INSTANCES OF EXCESSIVE FORCE AND THE MISTREATMENT OF PERSONS PLACED UNDER ARREST." HE PROMISED FURTHER REVIEW AND CORRECTIVE ACTION. IN WASHINGTON TODAY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN MARK TONER COMMENDED THE MONARCHY FOR AUTHORIZING SUCH AN EXHAUSTIVE INDEPENDENT REVIEW. AND HE CALLED FOR ACTIONS TO FOLLOW.

>> WE BELIEVE IT DOES OFFER BAHRAIN AN HISTORIC OPPORTUNITY TO JOIN TOGETHER, THE PEOPLE OF BAHRAIN AND THE KING, TO JOIN TOGETHER TO FIND A PATH TO IMPLEMENT THESE RECOMMENDATIONS AND TO UNDERTAKE OTHER NECESSARY REFORMS.

>> Warner: THE U.S. HAS A STAKE IN DEVELOPMENTS IN BAHRAIN, HOME TO THE U.S. NAVY'S FIFTH FLEET. SOME LAWMAKERS HAVE EXPRESSED UNEASINESS WITH THE CRACKDOWN. A PROPOSED $53 MILLION ARMS SALE TO BAHRAIN WAS PUT ON HOLD PENDING RELEASE OF TODAY'S REPORT. AND WE HAVE TWO PERSPECTIVES ON THE EVENTS AND THE BASSIOUNI REPORT. THE FIRST FROM BAHRAIN'S FINANCE MINISTER, SHEIK AHMED AL- KHALIFA. HE'S A MEMBER OF THE RULING ROYAL FAMILY. WELCOME, MR. MINISTER.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Warner: THIS IS A PRETTY FUF REPORT, FINDING SYSTEMATIC ABUSE OF THE OPPOSITION AND OF PROTESTERS. DO YOU AGREE THOSE FINDINGS?

>> WE WELCOME THE REPORT AND THE REPORT COMES AFTER THE NATIONAL DIALOGUE AS WELL WHICH IS ANOTHER STEP WHERE ALL WALKS OF SOCIETY CAME TOGETHER TO DISCUSS WHAT WE WANT BAHRAIN TO BE LIKE. AND 291 RECOMMENDATIONS CAME THROUGH NATIONAL DIALOGUE. TODAY'S REPORT IS A SECOND STEP BY AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION THAT CLEARLY SETS OUT THEIR POINT OF VIEW, AN INDEPENDENT POINT OF VIEW, OF WHAT HAPPENED IN BAHRAIN. THERE ARE THINGS IN THE REPORT THAT WE ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT. BUT WE ARE AT A STAGE OF WELCOMING THE REPORT, WE ARE GOING TO LOOK VERY CLOSELY AT THIS REPORT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT THESE THINGS NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN IN BAHRAIN.

>> Warner: NOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL THE INSTANCES-- AND IT'S REALLY VERY COMPREHENSIVELY DOCUMENTED-- WHETHER IT WAS AT THE HOSPITAL OR THE PRISONS OR AT THE PROTESTS, IT RAISES THE QUESTION OF WHO DIRECTED ALL THIS TO HAPPEN. THEY TALKED ABOUT SYSTEMATIC ABUSE. WHO WAS IN CHARGE? WHO WAS MAKING THOSE DECISIONS?

>> THE REPORT DID NOT SAY SYSTEMIC.

>> Warner: NO, SYSTEMATIC.

>> SYSTEMATIC WHICH REFERRED TO INDIVIDUALS OR GROUPS OF INDIVIDUALS THAT DID THESE ACTIONS. IN THE KING'S SPEECH WE HEARD THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE PURSUING FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS HELD ACCOUNT TO BELIEVE THEIR ACTIONS. THAT IS SOMETHING WE'RE NOT PROUD OF, BUT IT IS A REPORT WE FELT WAS NECESSARY SO THAT WE DEAL WITH ALL THESE ISSUES.

>> Warner: SO IS YOUR VIEW, THAN, THAT THESE WERE INDIVIDUAL ACTIONS OR UNIT ACTIONS? THIS WAS NOT A POLICY SET BY THE GOVERNMENT?

>> THIS IS DEFINITELY NOT A POLICY. FIRST OF ALL, THE REPORT SAID THAT. AND SECOND OF ALL, I AM A MEMBER OF THE GOVERNMENT, I WOULD KNOW IF THIS WAS A POLICY OF THE GOVERNMENT AND IT ISN'T.

>> Warner: NOW, ANOTHER KEY FINDING IN THIS REPORT IS THAT THEY REALLY FOUND WHAT THEY SAID WAS NO DISCERNIBLE LINK BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAN AND WHAT HAPPENED IN FEBRUARY AND MARCH. DOES YOUR GOVERNMENT ACCEPT THAT?

>> WELL THERE IS THE MEDIA BOMBARDMENT. WE BELIEVE SINCE 1981 COUPE ATTEMPT.

>> Pelley: YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IRANIAN MEDIA WHICH CAN BROADCAST TO BAHRAIN?

>> 24 HOURS MEDIA BOMBARDMENT OF BAHRAIN. ANYONE WHO CAN LISTEN TO THE ARABIC MEDIA CONTINUOUS BOMBARDMENT ON BAHRAIN CAN SEE THE INVOLVEMENT OF IRAN. WHAT IS IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW IS THAT THIS REPORT AND ITS FINDINGS BECOME A BASIS OF WHAT WE WILL DO NEXT. AND THAT IS THE NEXT STAGE.

>> Warner: BUT ARE YOU... IS YOUR GOVERNMENT AND THE STATE MEDIA-- WHICH ALSO CAME IN FOR SERIOUS CRITICISM IN THIS FOR BASICALLY INCITING FEELINGS AMONG SUNNIS AGAINST SHI'A-- GOING TO STOP TARRING OPPOSITION FIGURES AND PROTESTERS AND DISSIDENTS WITH THE BRUSH OF "OH THEY'RE IRANIAN AGENTS" OR "THEY'RE TOOLS OF IRAN" OR THEY'RE SOMEHOW TRAITORS TO THEIR COUNTRY?

>> WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THE REPORT. THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE THAT CERTAIN NUMBER OF MINISTERS ARE BEING TASKED NOW LOOKING AT THE REPORT, GOING THROUGH IT, BECAUSE THE REPORT OUTLINES THE METHODOLOGY OF HOW TO ACTUALLY DEAL WITH THE REPORT, WHICH INCLUDES CIVIL SOCIETY, WHICH INCLUDES GOVERNMENT WORKING SIDE BY SIDE. AND THIS WILL BE MADE AS A RECOMMENDATION TO CABINETS TO BE TAKEN FORWARD WHICH WILL CREATE A PROCESS FOR IMPLEMENTING RECOMMENDATIONS.

>> Warner: LET ME JUST GET YOUR REACTION TO A COUPLE-- BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY-- OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS. ONE WAS THAT THERE SHOULD BE A PERMANENT HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION AND WAYS OF INQUIRING IMMEDIATELY INTO ALLEGATIONS OF ABUSE. THAT YOUR SECURITY FORCES REALLY NEED BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS, CIVIL RIGHTS TRAINING.

>> ON THE ISSUE OF HUMAN RIGHTS WE HAVE ALREADY AS A GOVERNMENT APPROVED A LAW SENT TO PARLIAMENT TO BE DEBATED IN WHICH WE ARE MAKING THE INSTITUTIONS THAT WE HAVE IN HUMAN RIGHTS OPERATE MORE IN LINE WITH THE U.N. STANDARDS, MORE IN LINE WITH THE PARIS PRINCIPLES. TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT LAW IS CLEAR. THE SAME THING ON TORTURE. WE NARROWED THE DEFINITION OF TOUR WHICH YOU ARE TO STANDARDS OF THE U.N. OUR AIM IS TO IMPROVE THE REGULATIONS AND THE LAWS THAT WE HAVE TO BEST PRACTICE AROUND THE WORLD. AND FOR THIS WE NEED TO IMPLEMENT. WE WILL NEED LAWS THAT ARE CLEARER, STRONGER. WE WILL NEED TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE AND WE WILL NEED TO DEPEND ON OUR FRIENDS AS WELL TO HELP US IN CAPACITY BUILDING TO MAKE SURE THAT NOT ONLY THE LAWS ARE WRITTEN BUT THE PEOPLE ARE TRAINED AND THE SYSTEMS ARE IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

>> Warner: ALL RIGHT, WELL FINANCE MINISTER AL-KHALIFA, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Warner: NOW ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE FROM A NEWSPAPER EDITOR I FIRST INTERVIEWED IN BAHRAIN EARLIER THIS YEAR. HE'S MANSOOR AL JAMRI, CO-FOUNDER AND EDITOR OF CHIEF OF "AL WASSAT" BAHRAIN'S LEADING NEWSPAPER. HE AND HIS TOP EDITORS WERE FIRED AND THE PAPER WAS TURNED INTO A GOVERNMENT MOUTHPIECE FROM APRIL UNTIL AUGUST. JAMRI JOINS US FROM NEW YORK WHERE HE IS RECEIVING THE COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALIST 2011 INTERNATIONAL PRESS FREEDOM AWARD. MANSOOR AL JAMRI, WELCOME. GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN. WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE FINANCE MINISTER'S REACTION IN TERMS OF WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT'S REACTION?

>> WELL, I WELCOME THE FINANCE MINISTER'S STATEMENT THAT THIS IS A... GIVES US A ROAD MAP. BUT I DISAGREE WITH HIM THAT WE HAD A DIALOGUE. BAHRAIN DID NOT HAVE DIALOGUE. THE GOVERNMENT HAD DEBATED SOME ISSUES WITH ITS OWN EMPLOYEES. THERE'S A STRUCTURAL PROBLEM IN THE SYSTEM THAT IN EFFECT WE HAVE AN SYSTEM THAT HAS BEEN CLEANSED OUT OF MILITARY, OUT OF CIVIL BUR ROCK SIX OUT OF EVERYWHERE. AND THAT HAS CREATED THE ROOTS FOR CONTINUOUS FRUSTRATION AND ENDEMIC VIOLENT EVIDENCE NOW AND THEN BECAUSE OF THE REACTIONS FROM THE SECURITY FORCES AND FROM THOSE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR IMPOSING THE LAW. AND THE FINDINGS ARE DAMMING DAMNING IN THE SENSE THAT THERE ARE STRUCTURAL ISSUES THAT NEEDS TO GET... IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH IMPROVEMENT. WE HAVE NOTHING TO IMPROVE. WE HAVE ZERO CAPACITY IN TERMS OF RESPECT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, IN TERMS OF CREATING OR BUILDING A NATION ON THE BASIS OF EQUAL CITIZENSHIP. THE CITIZENSHIP IN BAHRAIN IS BROKEN. WE HAVE A BROKEN SOCIAL CONTRACT AND WE HAVE A BROKEN SOCIETY. THIS IS A STRUCTURAL PROBLEM.

>> Pelley: DID YOU FIND THE REPORT TOUGH? DID YOU FIND IT COMPLETE?

>> >> IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT REPORT. FOR THE FIRST TIME SOMEONE WILL STAND UP IN FRONT OF THE KING OF THE COUNTRY TO SAY THAT THE ORGANS OF THE STATE COMMITTED VIOLATIONS AND THAT THE MAIN ACCUSATION AGAINST HALF OF THE SOCIETY THAT THEY BELONG TO IRAN IS A FULL PROPOSITION. OKAY, THERE'S A PROPAGANDA WAR BY AN IRANIAN T.V. BUT THERE IS A PROPAGANDA WAR BY THE NATIONAL T.V. AGAINST HALF OF THE SOCIETY DAMMING THEM EVERYDAY, NAMING THEM ALL SORTS OF NAMES. SO IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT STEP, NOW IT GIVES A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE KING TO INITIATE A NATION REBUILDING PROCESS. WE NEED TO REBUILD OUR NATION AND WE NEED A SOCIAL... WE NEED ANOTHER POLITICAL AND SOCIAL CONTRACT THAT WE CAN BE PROUD OF IN THE 21st CENTURY. AND THE OTHER SYSTEM IS SOMETHING NOBODY WANTS. THIS IS WHAT WHAT WE HAVE IN BAHRAIN NOW. WE HAVE EFFECTIVELY SOMETHING THAT CANNOT WORK.

>> Warner: NOW WHAT ARE YOU HEARING-- AND I KNOW YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ACTIVELY REPORTING TODAY-- BUT WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM BAHRAIN? HOW IS THE OPPOSITION REACTING TO THIS REPORT?

>> THE MAINSTREAM OPPOSITION, THE GROUPS THAT ARE FUNCTIONING IN BAHRAIN HAVE WELCOMED THE REPORT BECAUSE THEY HAVE THANKED BASSIOUNI AND THEY HAVE THE DOUBTS THAT THEY WILL HEED THE RECOMMENDATIONS AND THEY'RE CALLING FOR AN INTERNATIONAL MONITORING PROCESS WHEREBY TO SEE THAT ALL THESE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE IMPLEMENTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE INTERNATIONAL COVE NANTZ FOR CIVILIAN POLITICS OR RIGHTS.

>> Warner:.

>> Warner: AND YOU'VE BEEN COVERING THE THIS RULING FAMILY FOR A LONG TIME. WHAT EFFECT DO YOU THINK IT WILL HAVE INSIDE THIS LARGE FAMILY. DO YOU BUY THE THEORY THAT THIS REPORT WAS INTENDED TO STRENGTHEN THE HAND OF THE MORE PROGRESSIVE FACTIONS AND DO YOU THINK IT WILL HAVE THAT EFFECT?

>> WELL, I HOPE SO. THERE ARE REFORMED MINDED PEOPLE LEADERS IN THE COUNTRY. THE KING HIMSELF TODAY CAME VERY STRONG AND SUPPORTING SOME SORT OF REFORM. THE KING INITIATED THE REFORM PROCESS IN 2001 AND THIS REFORM WAS... THESE REFORMS WERE ABANDONED TWO YEARS AGO AND WHAT WE SAW WAS THERE IS A RESULT OF ABANDONING THE REFORMS. I THINK WE NEED TO DEINITIATE THOSE REFORMS. WE NEED TO REINVIGORATE THE PROCESS. THE ROYAL FAMILY HAS TO STREAMLINE ITS DIFFERENCES AND THEY REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT THEIR... AT THE COUNTRYMEN AS CITIZENS EQUAL BEFORE THE LAW AND EVERYONE MUST BE ACCOUNTABLE WHETHER HE'S A MEMBER OF THE RULING FAMILY OR A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC. WE ARE ALL EQUAL BEFORE THE LAW.

>> Warner: MANSOOR AL JAMRI, EDITOR OF "AL WASSAT" BAHRAIN'S INDEPENDENT NEWSPAPER. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Brown: AGAIN, THE MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS OF THE DAY: THE PRESIDENT OF YEMEN SIGNED AN AGREEMENT TO HAND OVER POWER AFTER 33 YEARS OF RULE. ONLINE, WE HAVE SOME THANKSGIVING-THEMED STORIES. HARI SREENIVASAN HAS A PREVIEW. HARI?

>> Sreenivasan: RAY REFLECTS ON FOOD SHORTAGES IN PARTS OF THE WORLD WHERE MANY LIVE CLOSE TO THE EDGE. THAT'S ON OUR GLOBAL HEALTH PAGE. AND DOES TURKEY REALLY MAKE YOU SLEEPY ON THANKSGIVING? WE ASK A PHYSICIAN ON OUR HEALTH PAGE. PLUS, FIND OUT WHETHER A COLLEGE EDUCATED WOMAN IS MORE LIKELY TO GET PAID MATERNITY LEAVE. THAT'S ON OUR MAKING SENSE PAGE. ALL THAT AND MORE IS ON OUR WEB SITE: newshour.pbs.org.

>> Suarez: AND THAT'S THE "NEWSHOUR" FOR TONIGHT. ON THURSDAY, WE'LL LOOK AT THE OCCUPY MOVEMENT MARCHING FROM NEW YORK TO WASHINGTON. PLUS, WHO WAS PUNISHED FOR THE FINANCIAL CRISIS? I'M RAY SUAREZ.

>> Brown: AND I'M JEFFREY BROWN. WE'LL SEE YOU ONLINE AND AGAIN HERE TOMORROW EVENING. SAFE TRAVELS FOR THOSE OF YOU HEADING HOME FOR THE HOLIDAY. FOR NOW, THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT. MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY: ♪ ♪ MOVING OUR ECONOMY FOR 160 YEARS. BNSF, THE ENGINE THAT CONNECTS US. AND THE WILLIAM AND FLORA HEWLETT FOUNDATION, WORKING TO SOLVE SOCIAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS AT HOME AND AROUND THE WORLD. AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU. Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org

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