PBS NewsHour; September 24, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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>> Brangham: GOOD EVENING. I'M WILLIAM BRANGHAM JUDY WOODRUFF IS AWAY. ON THE NEWSHOUR TONIGHT:

>> THEREFORE, TODAY, ANNOUNCING THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES MOVING FORWARD WITH AN OFFICIAL IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.

>> Brangham: IMPEACHMENT ON THE THAT PRESIDENT TRUCTIONS SAYS WITH UKRAINE REQUIRE A SERIOUS INVESTIGATION. THEN, ALONE BEFORE THEN.ORLD. AS CALLS FOR HIS IMPEACHMENT SWIRL, PRESIDENT TRUMP DEFENDS HIS "AMERI FIRST" AT THE UNITED NATIONS. PLUS, MORE BREXIT CHAOS. BRITAIN'S SUPREME COURT RULES WHEN HE SUSPENDED ME.E THE LAW AND, "KNOW MY NAME." CHANEL MILLER, THE SURVIVOR OF THE STANFORD UNIVERSITY RAPE H CASE, RECLAI VOICE AND SPEAKS OUT. THINK, "IS ANYONE ACTUALLY HEARING ME?" TIT'S A TERRIFYING POSITI BE IN, TO FEEL LIKE YOU CAN CRY THE STAND, THAT YOU COU YELL A STATEMENT, AND PEOPLE STILL DON'HEAR YOU.

>> Brangham: ALL THAT AND MORE ON TONIGHT'S PBS NEWSHOUR.

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>>rangham: QUESTIONS OF IMPEACHMENT ARE GROWING TONIGHT AROUND PSIDENT TRUMP. THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE SAYS THE HOUSE IS MOVING FORWARD WITH IR OFFICIAL IMPEACHMENT IN THAT'S AFTER A WHISTLEBLOWER ALLEGED THAT THE PRESIDENT TRIED TO FORCE A FOREIGN LEADER TO AID HIS RE-ELECTION. IN TURN, MR. TRUMP SAYS HE'LL RELEASE THE RECORD OF A CRITICAL PHONE CALL.E CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT LISA DESJARDINS BEGINS OUR COVERAGE.

>> Desjardins: A DIZZYING DAY OF DEVEPMENTS. SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE NANCY PELOSI WENT FURTHER THAN EVER, LATE THIS AFTERNOON, ON FORMALLY BEGINNING IMPEACHMENT.

>> THE ACTIONS OF THE TRUMP OFESIDENCY REVEALED THE DISHONORABLE FACHE PRESIDENT'S BETRAYAL OF HIS OATO OF OFFICE, BETRAYAL OF OUR NALONAL SECURITY, AND BETRA OF THE INTEGRITY OF OUR ELECTIONS. THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVESCING MOVING FORWARD WITH AN OFFICIAL IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.

>> Desrdins: AT THE UNITED NATIONS, A PRESIDENT ARRIVING TO TALK ABOUT U.S. POLICYK IMMEDIATY FACED QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS OWN ACTIS, AND WHETHER HE PRESSURED UKRAINE TO INVESTIGATE THE BIDEN FAMILY.

>> I THINK IT'S RIDICULOUS.CH IT'S A WUNT.

>> Desjardins: HE SEEMED TO CONFIRM, A DEFEND, THE FACT THAT HE WITHHELD HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN AID FOR UKRAINE RECENTLY.

>> MY COMPLAINT HAS ALWAYS BEEN-- AND I'D WITHHOLD AGAIN, AND I'LL CONTINUE TO WITHHOLD UNTIL SUCH TIME OT EUROPE AND R NATIONS CONTRIBUTE TO UKRAINE, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT DOING IT.

>> Desrdins: THE "WASHINGTON POE" AND OTHERS REPORTED TH PRESIDENT FROZE NEARLY $400 MILLION IAID FOR UKRAINE THIS SUMMER, ONE WEEK BEFORE A PHONE CALL WITH NEY-ELECTED UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKIY. IT IS STILL NOT CLEAR IF THE WITHHELD MONEY CAME UP ON AT CALL, BUT THIS AFTERNOON, MR. TRUMP ANNOUNCED HE HAS ORDERED THE REASE, TOMORROW, OF THE COMPLETE AND UNREDACTED TRANSCRIPT OF HIS CONVERSATION.C IN TUR HOUSE INTELLIGENCE CHAIR ADAM SCHIFF SAID THE WHISTLEBLOWER WANTS TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE COMMITTEE AS EARLY AS THIS WEEK. MEANWHILE, CALLS FOR IMPEACHMENT GREW.

>> I HAVE BEEN PATIENT WHILE WE TRIED EVERY OTHER PATH AND USED EVERY OTHER TOOL. I BELIEVE, I TRULY BELIEVE, THE TIME TO BEGIN IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS AGAINST THIS PRESIDENT HAS COME.

>> Desjardins: IT WAS REMARKABLE 24 HOURS FOR DEMOCRATS, STARTING WITH A CANNON BLAST IN THE "WASHINGTON POST" FROM SEVEN FRESHMANDE CRATS, ALL WITH MILITARY AND NATIONAL SECURITY BACKGROUNDS. ALL SIT IN VULNERABLE DISTRICTS AND HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN HESITANT TO CALL FOR IMPEACHMENT, BUT NOW THEY'D CHANGED THEIR MDS: "IF TRUE, WE BELIEVE THESE ACTIONS REPRESENT AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE. WE DO NOT ARRI AT THIS CONCLUSION CIGHTLY." ON TPAIGN TRAIL IN DELAWARE TODAY, BIDEN PUSHED BACK AGAINST ANY ALLEGATIONS OF WRONG-DOING.

>> THAT'S WHAT HE DOES.

>> Desjardins: REPUBLICANS, MEANWHILE, ARE LARGELY URGING RESTRAINT. SENATE MAJORITY LEADER MITCH McCONNELL.

>> WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS AN ALLEGATION RELATED TO UKRAAN A AID WHISTLEBLOWER. THAT'S ABOUT ALL WE KNOW NOW. I'M NOT GOING TO ADDRESS ALL OF THESE VARIPOTHETICALS THAT HAVE BEEN AIRED OUT, ABOUT WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED, IN THE HOUSE. I THINK ALL OF THAT IS QUITE

>> Desjardins: BUT EVEN WITHIN THE PRESIDENT'S OWN PARTY, CONCERN IS BREWING. LOUISIANA SENATOR JOHN KENNEDY SAID BOTH THE BIDENS AND THE PRESIDENT'S PHONE CALLS SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED. PR THEY'RE SAYING WE LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT ESIDENT AND PRESIDENT ZELENSKIY, BUT WE'D ALSO LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT HUNTER BIDEN.

>> Desjardins: PRESIDENT TRUMP MEETS WITH THE UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT TOMORROW. AS HOUSEEMOCRATS PRESS FORWARD WITH AN IMPEACHMENT RESOLUTION.

>> Brangham: AS THE PUSH FOR IMPEACENT GROWS, WE WANT TO HEAR FROM CAPITOL HILL. WE START WITH ONE OF THE SEVEN FRESHMAN DEMOCRATS W WROTE THAT PIECE IN THE "WASHINGTONTO POST." CONGRESSWOMAN ABIGAIL SPANRGER IS A DEMOCRAT FROM VIRGINIA, AND SHE SITS ON THE HOUSE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE. WE SPOKE EARLIER THIS EVENING. BNGRESSWOMAN SPANBERGER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FONG HERE. YOU OBVIOUSLY HEARD THE SPEAKER'S ANNOUNCEMENT THAT SHE IS MOVING FORWARD WITH AN OFFICIAL IMPCHMENT INQUIRY. THE PIECE THAT YOU WROTE IN THE "WASHINGTON POST" LAST NIGHT, YOU WRO, "THESE ALLEGATIONS, THIS IS ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S BEHAVIOR WITH REGARDRTO UKRAINE, AE STUNNING, BOTH IN THE NATIONA THE POTENTIAL CORRUPTION THEY REPRESENT." YOU SPENT SOME TIME IN THE C.I.A., CAN YOU GIVE MAE SENSE ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT IS MOST TROUBLING ABOUT HIS BEHAVIOR?

>> WHAT'S MOST TRO LING ABOUT THESE ALLEGATIONS IS THE FACT THAT WE SEE A PRESIDENT WH ALLEGEDLY PRESSURED A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO, DIG UP DIRT ON A POLITICAL OPPENT, AND THAT HE POTENTIALLY SOUGHT TO USE SECURITY ASSISTANCE FUNDS, TAXPAYER DOLLARS, TO LEVERAGE AND TO CREATE THAT PRESSURE FROM A NATIONAL SECURITY PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS TREMENDOUSLY WORRISOME ON MULTIPLE FRONTS. FIRST AND FOREMO THE FACT THAT WE WOULD HAVE SECURITY ASSISTANCEUNDING AT PLAY, LEVERAGED, POTENTIALLY NOT GOING WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO AFTER IT'S BEEN APPROPRIATED BY CONGRESS IS TROUBLING EEMENT NUMBER ONE. THE FACT THAT WE WOULD HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO WOULD POTENTIALLY PUT HIMSELF INS A POITION OF PRESSURING A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT, THAT'S NOT HOW OUR DIPLOMATIC RELATIONSHIPS ARE SUPPOSED TO GO. AND THEN, OF COURSE, THERE'S TH PRIMARY PIECE THAT WE SHOULD NOT HAVE A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED COLLECT INFORMATIOHIS OWNOWER TO PERSONAL GAIN. AND I THINK THERE ARE SO MANY TROUBLING THREADS HERE WITH THESE ALLEGATIONS THAT WE REALLY DOEED A FULL INESTIGATION TO UNDERSTAND IF THEY ARE TRUE OR IF THEY ARE NOT. AND I THINK THE RAMIFICATIONS FROM A NATIONAL SECURITY PERSPECTIVE, THOUGH VERY FAR BEYOND WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW. WHAT DOsx THIS SAY EVEN IF THE ALLEGATIONS TO OTHER NATIONS? DOES THIS MEAN WE HAVE A PRESIDENT THAT MIGHT TREAT ANOTHER COUNTRY FAVORABLY IFOR THEY WERE TO PROACTIVELY PRO INFORMATION ABOUT ONE OF HIS POLITICAL RIVALS? ERE ARE SO MANY ELEMENTS THAT ARE LIEPLY TRO BUT THE CORE FACTS OF IT, THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO WOULD LEVERAGE HIS POLITICAL POSITION FOR HIS OWN PERSONAL GAIN AND PUT U.S. ASSISTANCE DOLLARS ON THE TABLE IN SUCH A MANNER, THOSE ALLEGATIONS ARE STRIKING.

>> Braham: YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR PIECE LAST NIGHT AND JUST NOW THAT IF THESE ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE, WE S HILL DON'TAVE 'TL THE FACTS. THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF IS POINTING OUT THAT WE STILL A HAVEN'T SERANSCRIPT OF THE PHONE CALL. WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE WHISTLEBWEOUS REPORT. DOHINK IT'S TOO EARLY TO TALK ABOUT AN IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY GIVETHAT WE DON'T KNCTW ALL THE FYET, DESPITE THE PRESIDENT'S ADMISSION?

>> WELL I THINK THE IMPORNT THING ABOUT AN IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY OR THE CONGRESSIONAL POWER OF INHERENT CONTEMPT, SUBPOENAS OR ANY OTHER TOOLS WE CONGRESS TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF AN ISSUE. THESE ARE TOOLS THAT ALLOW US TO HAVE A PRIVILEGED PROCESS WHEN INVESTIGATING THESE ALLEGATIONS. I DON'T THINK THAT IT SHOULD BE A FOREGONE CONUSION THAT WE ARE DEFINITELY DESTINED T OWARD I THINK I WANTED VERY CLEAR, AS DID MY COLLEAGUES, THAT THESE ALLEGATIONS, IF TRUE ARE, IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES, BUT THE GOAL AT THIS POINT IN TIME IS TO MAKE AR THE GRAVITY OF THESE ALLEGATIONS TO THE AMERICAN PEPLE, TO OUR COLLEAGUES IN CONGRESS, AND TO ADVOCATE THAT WE USE EVERY TOL AVAILABLE TO CONGRESS TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT AND THE MOVE THESE ALLEGATIONS TRUE OR FALSE.

>> Brangm: IF THE PRSIDENT RELEASES TOMORROW, AS HE HAS PHONE CALL, WILL TBE ENOUGH TO SETTLE THESE QUESTIONS? I THINK THERE AREANY PIECES OF EVIDENCE THAT WE NEED TO HAVU AND SO MANYTIONS THAT WE NEED TO HAVE ANSWERED. WHY WOULD THE PRESIDENT HAV WITHHELD HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF SECURITY ASSISTANCE TO UKRAINE? WERE THERE OTHER PHONE CALLS THAT OCCURRED? WHATRE THE DETAILS THAT THE WHISTLEBLOWER, WHO CAME FORWARDR THAT CRENTLY THE D.N.I. IS NOT ALLOWING THAT INFORMATION TO GO TO CONGRESS AS REQUIREWBY ? THERE ARE MANY MORE UNANSWERED QUESTIONS THAN THE ACTUA SUBSTANCE E PARTICULAR PHONE CALL.R AND AS A FORMER C.I.A. CASE OFFICER, AS A FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, FOR ME IT IS ALL ABOUT FACTS AND EVIDENCE. SO I HPE THAT MY COLLEAGUES AND CERTAINLY MEMBERS OF THE PRESSE AND THE CAN PEOPLE WON'T THINK THAT THERE IS JUST ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT WE NEED TO PROVE ONE WAYR OTHER. MY HOPE IS THAT WE WILL PURSUE EVERY ELEMENT OF INFMATION WE POSSIBLY CAN HAVE SO THAT IF WE ARE GETTING TO THE PILOT WHERE WE SAY THESE ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE OR FALSE, WE KNOW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT THAT IS, T, THE CASE.

>> Brangham: IF THE HOUSE WERE TO GATHER ALL THIS EVIDENCE AND SEE THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO VOTE TO IMPEACH THE PRESIDENT, BY ALL MEASURES, THE SENATE IS NOT GOING TO CONVICT E PRESIDENT. DO YOU STILL THINK IT WOULD BE WORTH IT TO GO THROUGH THS EXERCISE?

>> I AM OF THE BELIEF THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE ELECTED TO OFFIC ARE GO PUT THEIR OATH TO UPHOLE THE CONSTITUTION ABOVE AND BEYOND THEIR LITICAL AFFILIATION. I BELIEVE AND I HAVE FAITH THAT ANY ELECTED MEMOFBEHE CONGRESS OR SENATE WILL EVENTUALLY PUT COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY WHEN THE CHOICE I THERE THE MAKE. IF THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF AN INVESTIGATION IT BECOMES CLEAR ENOUGH THD T THERE WO A POSITIVE VOTE ON ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT WITHIN THE HOUSE OF REONESENTATIVES, MY EXPECTA IS THAT IN ORDER TO GET THAT OUTCOME BASED ON FACTS AND EVIDENCE, IT WOULD BE CLEAR WITHIN THE SENATE WHAT IT IS THAT THEY WOULD BE WEIGHING IN ON.

>> Brangham: ALL RIGHT. REPRESENTATIVE ABIGAIL, SPANBERGANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, WILLIAM. I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Brangham: WE TURN NOW FOR REPUBLICAN PERSPECTIVE ON THESE IMPEACHMENT CALLS. CONGRESSMAN ANDY HARRIS OF MARYLAND IS ON THE HOUSE UKRAINE CAUCUS, AND HE JOINS ME NOW. CONGRESSMAN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE. I WONDER IF YOU COULD JUST GIVE MEOUR INITIAL REACTION TO DADAY'S DEVELOPMENTS, THAT THE HOUSE IS GOING THE MOVE FORWARD WITH ANNT IMPEACHNQUIRY.

>> WELL, THIS IS NOTHING NEW. THERE ARE DOZENS IF NOT OVER 100 MEERS OF THE HOUSE WHO HAE WANTED TO TRY TO IMPEACH THIS PRESIDENT. THEY TRIED THE MUELLER IT DIDN'T WORK. NOW IDEY'RE GOING TO TRY THIS. YOU KNOW, I JUST... LOOK, I JUST THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE NEEDE TO SEE TANSCRIPT OF THE PRESIDENT'S CALL AND VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN'S CALL WHERE HE WAP HOLDING BILLION DLARS OF AID TO THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT. HIS SON WAS EARNING $50,000 A MONTH. WHAT DID HIS SON DO WHILE HIS FATHER WAS NEGOTIATED OVER A BILLION DOLLARS IN AID.ER THE AN PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH.

>> Brangham: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S ACTIONS. E PRESIDENT HASMITTED THAT HERESSURED THE PRESIDENT OF THE UKRAINE T LOOTK INTO THE BIDEN, REPEATEDLY, ACCORDING TO SOME TIMES EIGHT TIMES IN ONE PHONE CALL. HEE PRESIDENT HAS ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED THA WITHHELD AID FROM UKRAINE PROCEEDING THIS PHONE CALL. NONE OF THOSE ACTIONS TROUBLE YOU?

>> W L, LET'S PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE. YOU KNOW, THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT HAS CORRUPT OLIGARCHS INHARGE OF A LOT OF THINGS IN THE GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING THE AGENCY THAT HUNTER BIDEN WAS ASSOCIATED WITH. AND WE HAVE HERD REPORTS THAT MILITARY PROCURE. AND A LOT OF THESE FUNDS WERE GOING TO M CLITARY FREMENT IS CORRUPT IN THE UKRAINE. THE PRESIDENT IS RIGHT TO ASK THE UKRAINIAN GOVTERNM TO INVESTIGATE CORRUPTION WHEN IT INVOLVES HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF TAXPAYER MONEY FROMTH UNITED STATES.

>> Brangham: BUT IF IT WAS THE PRESIDENT SAYING REPEATEDLY, I WANT YOU TO LOOK INTO JOE BIDEN AND HUNTER BIDE WITHIN THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT COULD LIELY BE HIS OPPONENT IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU PAUSE?

>> LOOK, WE'RE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT HYPOTHETICALS. TTOMORROW WE'LL KNOW WHE TRANSCRIPT WAS. LET'S TALK ABOUT IT AFTER WE KNOW WHAT THE TRANSCRIPT WAS AND THEN LES URGE VICE PRESIDENT BIDE ON THE RELEASE THE TRSCRIPTS OF HIS DEALINGS WITH THE UKRAINIANS WHEN HE WAS VICE PRESIDENT, BECAUSE THAT GOES TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER. YOU KNOW, WE'RE DEALING WITH A GOVERNMENT THAT WAS RIFE WITH CORRUPTION AND THE QUESTION IS WHETHER WE SHOULD BE SENDING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO THAT GOVNMENT WITHOUT THEM TAKING A POSITION TO STOP THE CORRUPTION IN THE UKRAINE.

>> Brangham: YOUR COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE AISLE SAY WE NEED TO DO THIS IMPEACHMENT INUIRY BECAUSE IT GIVES US MORE LEGAL TOOLS AND FACILITATES THE INVESTIGATION L AT WE FEE ARE BEING STONEWALLED ON. THIS IS THE DEMOCRATS TALKING. DO YOU BT ELIEVE THATHIS -- IF YOU BELIEVE ALL THE FACTS SHOULD COME OUT AND THIS WILL BE AUL USROCESS, DO YOU THINK THIS IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY COULD BE USEFUL?

>> LOOK, THFACTS ARE GOING TO COME OUT TOMORROW IN WHEN THE TRIPTSDS ARE RELEASED. THE ALLEGATION WAS THAT THE PRESIDENT IN A PHONE LLITH THE UKRAINIAN LEADER HAD SOME KIND OF QUID PRO O ON AN INVESTIGATION. WE'LL FIND OUT TOMORROW. LET'S TALK ABOUT IT AFTER THE TRANSCRIPT.THE AND THEN LET'S RELEASE THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE VICE PRWIIDENT DEALIN THE UKRAINIANS INVOLVING A BILLION DOLLARS IND. FOREIGN

>> Brangham: THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID, AS YOU ARE ACKNOWLEDGING, THAT HE'LL RELEASE THE ETRANSCRIPT. DEMOCRATS ARGUE THEY ALSO NEED TO SEE THE WHISTLEBLOWER'S COMPLAINT, THE PERSON WHO EIT HEARD OF THIS CALL AS IT WAS GOING DOWN OR READ THE IS AMISS IT HERE.ID, SOMETHING WOULD YOU SUPPORT THE FORWARD?LOWER'S COMPLAINT COMING

>> WELL, WE KOW HE DIDN'T HEAR THE CALL, BECAUSE WE KNOW ITS WA SECOND HAND, HIS KNOWLEDGE OF THE PHONE CALL. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT HISIN COMPWAS THAT THE PHONE CALL WAS MADE AND ALLEGATIONS OF WHAT WAS DONE ON THE PHON WCALL, WE'RE GOING TO KNOW THE TRANSCRIPT TOMORROW. THAT'S THE WISTLEBLOWER'S ALLEGATION. THE PRESIDENT HAS GONE AHEAD AND SAID, OKAY, LET'S LOOK AT THE TRANSCRIPT. I THINK IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. I APPLAUD THE PRESIDENT FOR DOING IT. THEN WE NEED THIN LOOK DEEPER INTO WHAT WAS GOING ON DURING E OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WHEN VICE PRESIDENT BDEN WAS DEALING WITH UKRAINE AND HIS SON WAS EARNING $50,000 A MONTH FROM A RRUPT OLIGARCH.

>> Brangham: DO YOU THINK WHEN THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE ON THURSDAY T TESTIFIES BEFO HOUSE HE HAS BEEN ASKED REATEDLY TO GIVE UP THIS WHISTLEBLOWER'S COMPLAINT. SHOULD THAT COME FORWARD? SHOULD HE PROVIDE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT T PARTICULAR COMPLAINT?

>> LOOK, MY UNDERSTANDING, AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT MY SREA OF EXPERT TEASE, BUT IT' CENTERED AROUND WHETHER THIS IS URGENTING AND THE LAW SAYS IF THE DNI FELT ITI WAS URGENT, TN IT NEEDS TO BE REPORTED TO CONGRESS. THAT'S A JUDGMENT CALL. BUT AGAIN, TOMORROWE'RE GOI TO SEE THE TRANSCRIPT. WE'RE GOING TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WENT ON.

>>HArangham: THE PRESIDENT HIBTSED A FEW TIMES THAT HE THINKS THE DEMOCRATS ARE OVERPLAYING THEIR HAN THAT INER THE END IF THEY GO FWARD WITH THIS INQUIRY THAT IT WILL PY TO HIS POLITICAL BENEFIT. DO YOU THINK THAT'S TRUE? T DO YNK THE DEMOCRATS ARE OVERPLAYING THEIR HAND HERE?

>> I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE AOMMERICN PEOPLE WANT CONGRESS TOEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS THAT AMERICANS ARE FACING AND WHAT THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT. RIGHT W THEY'RE NOT REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE UKRAINE. THEY'RE CONCERNED ABT JOBS. THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE ECONOMY. THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON HERIN THE UNITED STATES. CONGRESS WILL BE DISTRACTED. THE LAST TIME THIS HAPPENED IN 1998, E PARTY THAT HELD THE IMPEACHMENT WAS PUNISHED AT THE POLLS. IT WILL BE THE SAME WAY NEXT YEAR.

>> Brangham: A RIGHT. REPRESENTATIVE ANDY HARRIS OF MARYLAND, THANK YOU VERY MUCH OF BEING HERE. NOW FOR A BROADER LOOK AT THESE DEVELOPMENTS-- HOW HOUSE DEMOCRATS GOT TO THIS POINT. WHAT'S NEXT FOR THEM, AND THEFO REPUBLICANS. AND, FOR THE PRESIDENT. AGAIN, OUR LISA DESJARDINS IS ON CAPITOL HILL TRACKING THE LATEST, AND WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT YAMICHE ALCINDORHE IS FOLLOWINGRESIDENT AT THE U.N. GENERAL ASSEMBLY IN NEW YORK. WELCOME TO YOU BOTH. LISA, TO YOU FIRST. HELP ME UNDERSTAND, WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS, THE FACTS THAT WERE ON THE TABLE YESTERDAY ARE LARGELY THE SAME FACTS THAT ARE ON THE TABLE TODAY. HOW DID THIS ANGE SO DRAMATICALLY?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, ILLIAM. I THINK TALKING MOCRATIC AIDES, EVEN THOSE MOST CLOSELY INVOLVED IN THE DECISIONS TODAY, DID NOT EXPECTING THINGS TO MOVE QUITE THIS QUICKRY. I DO THINK A SIGN OF THE GROWI MOMENTUM WAS THAT LETTER FROM THE SEVEN HOUSE DEMOCRATIC FRESHMAN. THEY WEREN'T JUSMAANY FRE THEY REALLY WERE SEEN AS ALMOST HOLDOUTS ON THE QUESTION OF IMPEACHMENT, AND THEY ALSO WERE SEEN AS HAVING THE MOST CREDIBILITY WHEN IT COMES TOTI AL SECURITY. SO WHEN THEY CAME OUT AS A GROUP LATE LAST NIGHT SAYING, QUESTION , "WE THINK IT'S TIMMOE TH FURTHER ON IMPEACHMENT IF THESE ACCUSATIONS ARE TRUE, WE THINK THAT IS IMPEACHABLE," WHABH WAS SKIPPING A STEP FR WHERE THE REST OF DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN, I THINK THAT REALLY WAS PART OF A WE OF GROWING MOMENTUM OVER THE WEEKEND, AND BECAUSE OF THATHT, A DAAT WAS BREAKING BECAME MORE VISIBLY BREAKING TO HOUSE DEMOCRATS. R ME THE DIFFERENT QUESTION IS, WILLIAM, WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED TODAY? WHAT DOES ANY OF THIS MEAN? I THINK THE HEADLINE IS THACRT DES IN THE HOUSE ARE MOVING TO IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS. WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THEM, NANCY PELOSI IS NOW ON BOARD THAT EFFORT.AND HERE IS ANOTHERG THING, WILLIAM, AS WE ALL TRY TO T OUR HANDS AROUND WHAT IS HAPPENING, I ASKED FOR SOME TIME LINE INFORMATION, GOT IT FRO ONLY ONE MEMBER, CAMILLA JAIPOL, A DEMOCRAT FROM WASHINGTON STATE. SHE SAID, "THE POINT IS WE WILL NOW MOVE MORE QUICKLY ON THIS QUESTION. IT WILL NOT BE A MATTER OF FASTER THAN THAT. IT WILL BE

>> Brangham: I KNONOW YOU, LISA, REPUBLICANEMBE WELL.ALKING WITH YOU HEARD CONGRESSMAN HARRIS JUST NOW PUTTING HIS DEFENSE FORWE D. WHAT ARE THER HOUSE MEMBERS YOU'RE TALKING TO SAYING ABOUT ALL THIS?

>> JUST IN THPAST FEW MIN HUTES E SEE RESPONSES FROM HOUSE REPUBLICAN LEADER KEVIN McCARTHY AND SENANATE REPUBL LEADER MITCH McCONNELL. BOTH OF THEM ARE PUTTING OUT A MESSAGE THAT THEY THINK THIS IS ANOTHER ATTEMPT TO OVERTURN THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW. IS ALSO GOING A STEP FURTHER. HE'S SAYING THAT HE DOESN'T THINK NANCY PELOSI HAS THE POWER TO DECLARE THIS AN OFFICIAL INQUIRY, THAT TO DO THAT REQUIRES A HOUSE -- A VOTE BY THE FULL HOUSE SOME WE'RE GOING TO SEE SOME REAL PROCESS DEBATE COMING UP, BUT THINK WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE MERITS, MORE TO BE TWO MAIN CAMPS OFHERE SEEM REPUBLICANS, THOSE AR DENTED DEFENDERS OF THE PRESIDENT AS WE HEARD FROM A FEW MINUTES AGO. BUT MOST REPUB.CANSRE NOT SURE WHAT TO MAKE OF. THIS ONE OF THE MORE PHILOSOPHICAL MEMBERS I TALKED TO, MAX THORNBERRY, TOWED ME HE IS CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THIS DOES FOR THE DIAELOGUE TO T COUNTRY AND THAT IF THERE IS JUST A CONTINUING SHOUTING OVER IMPEACHMENT, HE'S NOT SURE HOW ONE ISSUE OVER ANOER CAN BE SEPARATED. SO THERE'S A LITTLE CONCERN ABOUT WHAT THIS COULD DO FOR A DIVIDE.

>> Brangham: WE CERTAINLY HAVE A LOT OF OTHER MOVECES IN. THIS WE'RE GOING TO -- THE ESIDENT SAYS HE'S GOING TO REISASE THE TRANSCRIPT OF CALL. WE HAVE NOT SEEN THE WHISTLEBLOWER'S COMPLAINT, BUT WE KNOW THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE TESTIFIED THURSDAY. WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER STEGH YOU SEE?

>> I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. WE ALSO ARE TOLD U THE HOSE INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN, HE'S HOPING THE WHISTLEBLOWER THFOSELVES WILL APPEAR BE THE COMMITTEE. THAT WOULD BE IN A CLOSED SESSION. SO THERE WILL BE MORE INFORMATION THAT DOES PUTIN DEMOCRATN INTERESTING POSITION THAT THEY'RE MOV ING FORWARD, THEY'RE TAKING A BIG STEP BEFORE THEYAVE ALL THE INFORMATION, BUT THEY'RE CONFIDENT BASED ON WHAT THEY ALREADY KNOW, NOT JUST IN THIS INVESTIGATION, BUT IN SEVERAL INVESTIGATIONS THAT IT'S TIME TO MOVE UP, RAUP THEIR STEPS ON IMPEACHMENT. BUT YOU KNOW, WILLIAM, THE ENDIS GAME HER FOR IMPEACHMENT IS THE SENATE. AND THE HOUSE IS TAKING A BIG STEP HERE, HOUSE DEMOCRATS ARE SMAKING A BIGTATEMENT TODAY, BUT ULTIMATELY FOR A PRESIDENT TO BE CONVICTED, THE SENATE HAS TO GET ON BOARD, AND RIGHT NOW THE SENATE IS NOWHERE NEAR THATD BUT HOUOCRATS SEEM TO BELIEVE THAT NOW THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCEO BUILD A STRONGER CASE IF NOT TAKING THE PRESIDENT OUT, AT LEAST CONLEVINCING VOTS PERHAPS TO VOTE AGAINST HIM NEXT YEAR. TO YOU, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S THIS GROWING ARMY OF DEMOCRATS SAYING WE NEED TO STT THIS FORMAL INQUIRY. TO SPEAKER SEEMS TO BE BEHIND YOU'RE WITH THE PRESIDENT. HOW IS THE PRESIDENT AND THE WHITE HOUSE REACTING TO ALL OF THIS TODAY?

>> THESRESIDENT RESPONDING TO DEMOCRATS SAYING THAT THEY'RE IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY AGAINST HIM BY LASHING OUT AT THEM. HE'S SAYING THIS IS PART OF A CONTINUING WITCH HUNT AND THIS REALLY STARTED WITH THE RUSSIA INVESTIGION AND CONTINUES ON NOW. HE HAS BEEN TWEETING AND TALKING ABOUT THIS ALL DAMS HE SAY'S THE VICTIM OF "PRESIDENTIAL HARASSMENT." HE ALSO ACCUSEDM DEOCRATS OF TRYING TO RUIN AND DEMEAN HIS DAY HERE AT THE UNITED NATIONS. HE HAS BEEN E-MAILING WITH THE WHIT HOSE PRESS SECRETARY,HA STE GRACEHAM. HE SAID THE DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING TO WEAPONIZE POLITICS. I ASKED HERHOW ARE YOU GONG TO DEAL WITH ALL OF THIS? HE SAID, WE'LL RELEE THE TRSCRIPT OF THAT CALL THAT. WILL MAKE ALL OF THIS LOOK BUT OF COURSE DEMOARE ASKING FOR THE ACTUAL WHISTLEBLOWER COMPLAINT, THAT'S MUCH DIFFERENT THAN JUST THE TRANSCRIPT SOME THIS IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S GONG TO CONTINUE TO DEVELOP, AND THE WHITE HOUSE IS STILL TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER THEIR PLANm:

>> BrangE SAW THE PRESIDENT TODAY WAS ALSO TOUTING HIS APPROVAL RATING AMONGST THE G.O.P. AND TWEETING HAAT PERCENTAGE. OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE AN ELECTION COMING THAT SEEMS TO BE THE SORT OF LOW RUMBLE UNDERNEATH AL THIS. DOES THE PRESIDENT SEE THAT THIS IS A THREAT TO HIM OR DOES HE SEE THIS MIGHT BE A BENEFIT TO HIM?

>> IMPEACHMENT IS REALLY A DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP. ON THE ONE HAND, PUBLICLY HE'S SAYING THAT IMPEACHMENT WOULD BE POSITIVE FOR HIM, IT WOULD HELP HIM GET REELECTED BY ENERGIZING TERS, BUT PRIVATELY, PEOPLE WHO ARE CLOSE TO THE PRESIDENT ARE ALSO VERY WORRIED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THIS WILL BE TOO DISTRACTING FOR HIM. THIS WILL BE SO FOCUSED ON IMPEACHMENT AND THE IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY THAT HE WILL NOT FOCUS ON WHAT REPUBLICANS WANT TO GET DONEEIR TIME IN OFFICE. I HAVE ALSO BEEN TALKING TO PEOPLE ON THE CAMPAIGN, AND THE CAMPAIGN WAS FUND-RAISING OFF OF THIS IDEA THAT THERESIDE MIGHT BE PEACHED. THEY WERE CHECKING MONEY AND ASKING SUPPORTERS FOR MONEY FOR WHAT THEY WERE CALLING AN HMENT DEFENSE TASK FORC THE OTHER THING TO NOTE, THE CAMPAIGN MANAGER OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S 2020 ELECTION BID WAS ACTUALLY SAYING THIS IS GOING TO AGAIMOBILIZE VOTERS HERE. I SHOULD SAY, THERE ARE RISKS ON BOTH SIDES. I HAVE BEEN TALKING TOO SURCES ALL DAY WHO ARE SAYING, WE GOT HERE BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE REALLY WORRD ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THIS WAS GOING TO BE SOMETHING GOOD FOR EITHER PARTY. SO WHAT WE'LL SEE IS REALL RISKS ON BOTH SIDES AND PEOPLE REALLY TRYING TO FIGURE OUALT WHETHER THIS IS GOING TO BE GOOR FOR THEIR TY.

>> Brangham: ALL RIGHT, YAMICHE AND LISA, THANKS FOR BRINGING US UP TO SPEED.

>> Brangham: IN THE DAY'S OTHER NEWS, PRESIDENT TRUMP TOOK O GLOBALISM-- AND IRAN-- IN HIS FORMAL ADDRESS AT THE UNITED NATIONS TODAY. HEPOKE AINST THE BACKDROP OF THE GROWING IMPEACHMENT TALK IN WASHINGTON. AGAIN, YAMICHE ALCINDOR REPORTS.

>> Alcindor: THE PRESIDENT'S TONE MAY HAVE BEEN SUBDU...

>> IF YOU WANT FREEDOM, TAKE PRIDE IN YOUR COUNTRY.in

>> Ar: ...BUT HIS TALK WAS STILL TOUGH, AS HE PUSHED HISL "AMERICA FIRST" APPROACH. T FUTURE DOES NOT BELONG TO GLOBALISTS. THE FUTURE BELONGS TO PATRIOTS.

>> Alcindor: IN HIS ADDRESS TO THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, PRESIDENT TRUMP IN PARTICULAR, HE FOR. ALLIES TO HELP COUNTER IRAN.

>> ALL NATIONS HAVE A DUTY TO NO RESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENTS SHOULD SUBSIDIZE IRAN' BLOODLUST.lc

>>dor: AND, HE CALLED OUT CHINESE TRADE POLICY.

>> IT HAS EMBREDN ECONOMIC MODEL DEPENDENT ON MASSIVE MARKET BARRIERS, HEAVY STATENC SUBSIDIES, CUR MANIPULATION, PRODUCT DUMPING, FORCED TECHNOLOGY TRANSFERS AND THE THEFT OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. AND ALSO TRADE SECRETS ON A GRAND SCALE.

>> Alcindor: THE PRESIDENT ALSO USED THE WORLD FORUM TO MAKE HIS CASE FOR HISOMESTIC AGENDA. HE PRAISED U.S. EMPLOYMENT RATES AND, HE WAS UNCOMPNG ON CUTS. ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

>> IF YOU MAKE IT HERE, YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED IN. YOU WILL BE PROMPTLY RETURNED HOME. YOU WILL NOT BE RELEASED INTO OUR COUNTRY.

>> Alcindor: TODAY'S SPEECHES ALSO FEATURED A NUMBER OFTH ITARIAN AND FAR-RIGHT FIGURES, INCLUDING LEADERS FROM TURKEY, EGYPT AND BRAZIL. THE BRAZILIAN LEADER DISMISSED WARNINGS ABOUT WILDFIRES IN THE AMAZON RAINFOREST.

>> ( translated ): THE AMAZON IS NOT BEING DEVASTATED, NOR IS ITS BEING COED BY FIRE, AS THE MEDIA MISLEADINGLY SAYS.

>> Alcindor: MEANWHILE ONE TRADITIONAL ALBRITISHWITH PRIME MINISTER BORIS JOHNSON.IT AME HOURS AFTER BRITAIN'S HIGHEST COURT STRUCK DOWN JOHNSON'S DECISION TO SUSPEND PARLIAMENT. THE PRESIDENT OFFERED MORAL SUPPORT.

>> E'S DOING A FANTASTIC JOB. NOT EASY, AND-- BUT DOING A REALLY GREAT JOB. AND I THINK HE GOING TO MAKE GREAT PROGRESS COME OCTOBER. T

>> Alcindor: F PBS NEWSHOUR, I'M YAMICHE ALCINDOR AT UNITED NATIONS IN NEW YORK.

>> Brangham: MUDSLIDES ANDT OWER OUTAGES E U.S. VIRGIN ISLANDS TODAY, AS TROPICAL STORM KAREN ARRIVED. THE STORM ALSO BROHT HEAVY RAIN TO PUERTO RICO, AND WINDS OF 40 MILES AN HOUR. HOUREARLIER, AN EARTHQUAKE SHOOK THE ISLAND, BUT CAUSED LITTLE DAMAGE. FARTHER NORTH, TROPICAL STORM JERRY COULD REACH BERMUDA ON WEDNESDAY. IT HAD SUSTAINED WINDS TAY AT 60 MILES AN HOUR. IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA, THREATS OF WILDFIRES BROUGHT BLACKOUTS FOR MORE THAN 24,000 HOMES AND BUSINESSES. PACIFIC GAS AND ELECTRT OFF ELECTRICITY IN PARTS OF THE SIERRA NEVADA FOOTHILLS OVERNIGHT, AMID T, WINDY CONDITIONS. IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, DOWNED POWER LINES HAVE SPARKED HUGE FIRES IN THE STATE. AS A RESULT, P.G.& E. IS NOW IN FEDERAL BANKRUPTCY PROCEEDINGS. U.S. HEALTH OFFICIALS SAY THERE HAVE BEEN HUNDREDS MORE CASES LUNG ILLNESSES AFFECTING E-CIGARETTE USERS SINCE LAST WEEK. IN ALL, NINE PEOPLE HAVE DIED IN RECENT MONTHS, AND HUNDREDS HAVE BEEN HOSPITALIZED. AT A U.S. HOUSE HEARING TODAY, DR. ANNE SCHUCHAT OF THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION SAID OFFICIALS STILL DON'T KNOW THE CAUSE

>> WE KNOW THAT THE PRODUCTS OUA THERE HAVEED A LOT, AND THE USHAHAS PROBABLY INCREASED. DON'T YET KNOW IF THERE A NEW, PARTICULARLY RISKY PRODUCT OUT THERE, OR A SUBSTANCE THAT IN THE PRODUCT, ORANIPULATION THAT'S DANGEROUS.

>> Brangham: THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS PROA BAN ON FLAVORED E-CIGARETTES. AND, THIS AFTERNOON, THE GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS ORDERED A TEMPORARY BAN ON THEL SALE OF PING PRODUCTS. THE EUROPEAN UNION'S HIGHEST COURT SIDED WITH GOOGLE TODAY, RULING THAT E.U. PRIVACY STANDARDS DO NOT APPLY GLOBALLY. THE LANDMARK DECISION LIMITS THE REACH OF THE SO-CALLED "RIGHT TO BE FORGOTTEN." THAT STANDARD LETS USERS IN EUROPE REQUEST THAT SEARCH ENGINES REMOVE SOME LINKS FROM THEIR NAMES. FRANCE HAD ASKED THAT THE RULE BE APPLIED EVERYWHERE, NOT JUST WITHIN THE E.U. FAMED OPERA SINGER PLACIDO DOMINGO HAS WITHDRAWN FROM PERFORMING WITH E NEW YORK METROPOLITAN OPERA, AMID SEXUAL HARASSMENT ACCUSATIONS. IN A STATEMENT, HE SAYS HE STRONGLY DISPUTES THE CLAIMS, BUT DOES NOT WANT TO BE A DISTRACTION. HE SAYS HE WILL NOT BE RETURNING TO THE MET. DOMINGO IS 78. AND, ON WALL STREET, STOCKS SANK ON WORRIES ABOUT IMPEACHMENT AND A DROP IN CONSUMER CONFIDENCE. THE DOJONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE LOST 142 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 26,807. THE NASDAQ FELL NEARLY 119 POINTS, AND THE S&P 500 DROPPED 25. STILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR: WHAT'S NEXT IN THE BREXIT SAGA, AFTER A CRITICAL MOVE BY THE PRIME MINISTER IS RULED UNCONSTITUTIONAL?HE OUT OFHADOWS. THE SURVIVOR OF THE STANFORD UNIVERSITY SEXUAL ASSAULT CASE RECLAIMS HER VOICE. PLUS, WRITER TA'NEHISI COATES ON MYTH, MEMORY, AND HIS FIRST NOVEL, "THE WATER DANCER."

>> Brangham: BRITISH PRIME MINISTER BORIS JOHNSON'S CAMPAIGN TO LEAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION, DEAL OR NO DEAL, HIT A ROBLOCK TODAY. THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM RULED THAT HIS DECISION TO RECESS PARLIAMENT W ILLEGAL, AND THAT LAWMAKERS CAN RETURN TO WORK IMMEDIATELY. CIARAN JENKINS WITH INDEPENDENT TELEVISION NEWS HAS ALL THE DETAILS FROM ANOTHER CHAOTIC DAY.

>> Reporter: FOR U.K. DEMOCRACY, A DEFINING DAY. FOR THE PRIME MINIST DEVASTATING. BORIS JOHNSON'S REASONS FOR SUSPENDI PARLIAMENT, THE ASONS HE GAVE THE QUEEN, WERE TORN TO SHREDS BY THE COUNTRY'SE 11 MOST SENIOR JUDGES, UNANIMOUSLY.IS

>> THE DN TO ADVISE HER MAJESTY TO PROROGUE PARLIAMENT WAS UNLAWFUL.

>> Reporter: WE WERE WITNESSING, SAID THE SUPREME COURT PRESIDENT, A ONE-OFF. HISTORY FORGED, AS THE PRIME MINIST'S FIVE-WEEK SUSPENSION OF PAR

>> PARLIAMENT HAS NOT BEEN PROROGUED. THIS IS THE UNANIMOUS JUDGMENT OF ALL 11 STICES.or

>> Repr: THE CONSEQUENCES? ENORMOUS AND IMMEDIATE.S BORIS JOHNSOLITICAL OPPONENTS, THROUGH THE COURTS, WILL HAVE HIM HAULED BACK BEFORE PARLIAMENT.

>> THERE IS NOTHING TO STOP US RESUMING THE IMMEDIATELY IMPORTANT JOB OF SCRUTINIZING THIS MINORITY TORY GOVERNMENT AS WE HURTLE TOWARDS BREXIT.

>> Reporter: PARLIAMENT IS SOON TO BE UNLOCKED.

>> I'M READY FOR WORK. LOOK FORWARD TO PARLIAMENT SITTING.

>> DO YOU EXPECT THE PRIME MINISTER TO BE SITTING THERE AS WELL? WON'T BE THERE, BUT I WILL BE THERE.

>>eporter: HE'S STAYING AS PRIME MINISTER, BUT RUSHINGBA , AHEAD OF SCHEDULE TONIGHT, FROM THE U.N. GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

>> I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THIS JUDGEMENT, AND WE IN THE U.K. WILL NOT BE DETERRED FROMET GETTING ON AND DELIVERING THEIS WILL OF THE BRPEOPLE TO COME OUT OF THE E.U. ON OCTOBER 31.

>> Reporter: THE FINAL W MONUMENTALD, THOUGH, IS THE SUPREME COURT'S. ITS RULING ON THESE TWO LEGAL CHK.LENGES BEGIN TO SET THE CONSTITUTION IN STONE.

>> TODAY'S RULING CONFIR THAT WE ARE A NATION GOVERNED BY THE VERULE OF LAW, LAWS THAT EONE, EVEN THE PRIME MINISTER, IS NOT ABOVE.

>> Reporter: AND SO BORIS JOHNSON IS FORCED BACK TOMORROW TO WESTMINSTER, AND A DELUGE OF SCRUTINY. g: STORMY DAYS INDEED FOR BRITISH POLITICS. SO WHERE DOES ALL THIS LEAVE BORIS JOHNSON, AND WHERE DOES IT LEAVE BREXIT? CHARLES KUPCHAN IS A SENIOR FELLOW AT THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, AND A PROFESSOR AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY. DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, HE WAS THE SENIOR DIRECTOR FOR EUROPEAN AFFAIRS. MR. KUPCHAN, THANKS FOR BEING HERE. WHERE DOES TS LEAVE BREXIT? E DEHILINE IS FIVE WEEKS AWAY. WHAT IS THE PRACTICAL EFFECT OF THIS RULING TODAY?

>> WELL, IT'S ITA POLAL BOMBSHELL OF SORTS IN THAT THERE ISN'T A WRITTENONSTITUTION IN THE U.K. NO ONE KNEW HOW THE SUPREME URT WAS GOING TO ACT. THEY DIDN'T PINS THEIR WORDS.I THEY SBORIS JOHNSON IS STANDING IN THE WAY OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL FUNCTION OF PARLIAMENT, THAT IT'S UNLAWFUL, THAT IT'S VOID, AND PARLIENT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SUSPENDED FOR SEVERAL MORE WEEKS. IT'S MEETING TOMROW. IT HEMS BORIS WOIRS IN EVEN MORE, BUT THERWAS ALEADY LEGISLATION PASSED BY PARLIAMENT BEFORE HE SUSPENDED IT THAT SAID A NO-DEAL BREXIT CANNOT HAPPEN. SO RIGHT NOW HE DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF GNOD OPTIONS O OCTOBER 17/18, THERE IS A MEETING OF THE HEADS OF STATE OF THE E.U. HE WILL GO. HE WILL MAKE ONE LAST PITCH TO GET A DEAL. 'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TGET IT, AND AT LEAST ACCORDING TO PARLIAMENT, HE HAS TO SAY, I NEED AN EXTENSION.

>> Brangham: HE HAS TO ASK THE E.U. FOR AN EXTENSION?

>> WHAT ARE THE CHANCES THEY WILL GIVE HIM THAT?

>> IOULSAY A HIGH LIKELIHOOD, BECAUSE IF THEY'T DIIVE HIM AN EXTENSION, THEN BREXIT WOULD BE ON THE ..U.'S WATCH. HE'LL GET IT BUT WILL HE ASK FOR IT? HE HAS MADE HIS CLAIM TOFAME, WE ARE GETTING OUT ON OCTOBER 31 NO MATTER WHAT. IS HE GOING TO ASK FOR THAT EXTENSION? IS HE GOING TO DEFY PARLIAMENT? HE MAY END UP IN JAIL IF HE DIDH THAT BECAUWOULD BE BREAKING THE LAW.

>> Brangham: PRIME MINISTER JOHNSON HAS BEENN OFFICE FOR TWO MONTHS NOW. HE'S LOST A SERIES OF MAJOR VOTES IN PARLIAMENT. HE'S LOSHIS WORKING MAJORIT IN PARLIAMENT. H'S LOSING MEMBERS OF HIS CONSERVATIVE PARTY. WHAT DOES THIS -- WHAT COULD TODAY DO TO HIS STANDING? CAN HE REMAIN AS PRIME MINISTER?

>> I THINK HE WILL PROBABLY STAY FOR A FEW MORE WEEKS TO GET TO THAT CONVERSATION WITH THE E.U. TO SEE IF HE CAN'T GET AEAL. I'M GUESSING HE WILL STAY AND NOT RESIGN IN PART IS BECAU HE WOULD LIKE AN ELECTION,BUT HE BECAUSE AFTER THAT IF IT'S AFTER AN EXTENSION, THE BREXIT PEOPLE VE LOST CONFIDENCE IN HIM. THE OPPOSITION WANTS AN ELECTION TOOME ER OCTOBER 31 PRECISELY BECAUSE BORIS JOHNSON WILL BE WEAKER. RIGHT NOW IT'S ANYBODY'S GUESS HOW THIS PLAYS OUT THE NEXT FEW WEEKS, BUT AT LEAST FOR NOW IT LOOKS LIKE BREXIT WON'T HAPPEN ON OCTOBER 31 BECAUSE THEIA PANT HAS FORBID IT. THE PARLIAMENT IS NOW BACKED BY THE SUPRE COURT.

>> Brangham: SO TAKING A BIGGER PICTURE ORULLING BACK A LITTLE BIT, WHAT'S THE EFFECT OF ALL THIS CHAOS IN BRITAIN ON THE

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S SAFE TO SAY THAT BRITAIN IS GOING TO BE TIED UP IN KNOTS FOR YEARS, BECAUSE WHETHER BRECK YET HAPPENS OR WHETHER DOESN'T HAPPEN, THEY WILL BE TRYING SORT THIS OUT. THE RELATIONSHIP WI THE UTJ, THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UNITED STATES. BRITAIN IS EFFECTIVELY MISSING IN ACTION. IT'S CLOSED FOR BUSINESS. THAT IS A PROBLEM FOR A COUNTRY THAT HAS BEEN THE CLOSEST PARTNER FOR THE UNITED STATES. WE AS THIS NEWSCAST HAS BEEN SAYING ARE ALSO TIED UP IN KNOTS POLITICALLY. SO IT'S INTERESTING THAT AT THIS MOMENT THE TWO ANGELO XON COUNTRIES MOST RESPONSIBLE FOR BUILDING MODERNITY AS WE KNOW IT, IT'S A GL OBALIZED WORLD, ARE

>> Brangham: CHARLES KUPCHAN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> Brangham: NOW, THE SURVIVOR OF A RAPE CASE THAT CAPTURED THE COUNTRY'S ATTENTION ISAI RENG HER IDENTITY AND HER VOICE. AMNA NAWAZ SAT DOWN EARLIER TODAY WITHHANEL MILLER. AFTER SHE WAS ASSAULTED IN 2015R AT STANFD UNTY, SHE CHOSE TO STAY ANONYMOUS. BUT NOW, MILLER IS TALERY PUBLICLY ABOUT THE DIFFICULT, TRAUMATIC ROAD SHE FACED TRYING TO SEEK JUSTICE.

>> Nawaz: FOR YEARS AFTER HER ASSAULT, SHE WAS KNOWN TO THEE WORLD AS "EMILY DOE." BUT THIS WEE CHANEL MILLER IS STEPPING INTO THE SPOTLIGHT WITH HER OWN NAME, AND HER OWN WORDS, IN THE NEW MEMOIR, "KNOW MY NAME." IN JANUARY OF 2015, MIER WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED WHILE UNCONSCIOUS BY BROCK TURNER, OFTEN DESCRIBED THEN AS A STAR SWIMMER AT STANFORD UNIVERSITY. TWO GRADUATE STUDENTS WITNESSED THE ATTACK BEHIND A DUMPSTER, CHASED TURNER DOWN WHEN HE FLED, AND PINNED HIM DOWN UNTIL POLICE ARRIVED. TURNER WAS CONVICTED OF THREE FELONY COUNTS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT, FACING UP TO 14 YEARS IN PRISON. BUT JUDGE AARON PERSKY SENTENCEI TO JUST SIX MONTHS IN COUNTY JAIL, SAYING "A PRISON SENTENCE WOULD HAVE A SEVERE IMPACT ON HIM."CE THE SENTEN SPARKED OUTRAGE, INCLUDING AMONG CALI VOTERS, WHO RECALLED THEUDGE HA 2018, THE FIRST TIME THAT'S HAPPENED IN MORE80 YEARS. MILLER'S OWN POWERFUL STATEMENT IN COURT, 7,000 WORDS-PLUS, ANHELPED FUEL THAT OUTRAGE GAVE VOICE TO SEXUAL ASSAULT RVIVORS EVERYWHERE. IT WAS PUBLISHED IN BUZZFEED AND KLY WENT VIRAL, SHARED B MILLIONS, EVEN READ ALOUD ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRVES. TURNER SONLY THREE MONTHS. AND MILLER STAYED QUIET FOR YEARS. BUT WITH HER NEW BOOK, CHANEL MILL IS NOW SHARING HER STORY WITH THE WORLD. WE MET IN NEW YORK EARLIER TODAY. CHANEL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE THE UNDER.

>> THANK YOU VERYING IF ME, AMNA. ABOUT THE STORY YOOUT INYOU Nawaz: WHEN YOU WAKE UP INGIN AN UNFAMILIAR PLACE AND YOU HAVE NO MEMORY OF THE NIGHT BEFORE, AND A DEPUTY TURNS TO YOU AND SAYS, YOU'RE IN THE HOSPITAL AND THERE'S REASON TO BELIEVE YOU HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ASSAULTED. WHAT GOES THROUGH YOUR MIND AT THAT MOMENT?

>> I WAS IN COMPLETEEAL. I THINK YOU CAN'T ACCEPT IMMEDIATELY THAT THE ENTIRE TRAJECTORY OF YOUR LIFE HAS JUST CHANGED. YOU WANT THE BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN RETURN TO YOUR ORDINARY LIF THAT YOU WE SOME SORT OF TRACK AND THAT YOU WILL NOT THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO BELIEVE.

>> Brangham: AT THE TIME, WE SHOULD CLARIFY, YOU HAD NO IDEIA THAT THE NIGHT BEFORE, AS YOU ID, WHEN YOU WENT TO A PARTY WITH YOUR SISTER, YOU PASSED OUT AND HAD BEEN ASSAULTED.

>> UH-HUH.

>> Brangham:. UNTIL DAYS LATER WHEN YOU SEE A NEWS STORY POP UP INTO YOU FEED. THE RY FIRST LINE OFTHAT STORY READS, "A FORMER STANFORD SWIMMER HAS BEEN CHARG WITH RAPING AND AN INTOXICATED, UNCONSCIOUS WOMAN IN AN ON-CAMPUS ATTACK." YOU WROTE AT THE TIMAT YOU KNEW IT WAS YOU.KN

>> UH-HUH.

>> Nawaz: HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT. BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN THE STORY LINED UP, BUT I STILL WHN READING THE NEWS, I FELT I DIDN'T WANT TO AFFILIATE MY H THIS GRAPHIC DESCRIIION THAT WAS BENG DEPICTED ON THE NEWS. I FELT EXT EREMEPOSED AND STRIPPED DOWN. I HAD NO ABILITY TO COVER MYSELF UP OR MAINTAIN AN SENSE OF DIGNITY OR PRIVACY.

>> Nawaz: WHEN YOU WERE FRST ASKED -- BECAUSE IT'S A CHOICE WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT THE PRESS CHARGE, RIGHT? -- THE STATE WILL MOVE AHAD WITH CRGES REGARDLESS, BUT IF YOU WANT TO PARTICIPATE IS A CHRICE. WHEN YOU IN HINDSIGHT, YOU SAID, "I DIDN'T KNOW THAT IF A WOMAN WAS DRUNK WHENHE VIOLENCE OCCURRED SHE WOULDN'T BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT IF HE WAS DRUNK WHEN THE VIOLENCE OCCURREC WOULD OFFER HIM SYMPATHY." HOW DID YOU SEEHAT IDEA PLAY ITSELF OUT OVER THE YEAR LEADING UP TO AND BEFORE THE TRIAL?

>> IN THE BEGINNING, WHEN I READ THSTORY, IT WAS VERY CLEAR TO ME WHAT HAPPENED. IF SOMEONE RUNS, THEY'RE EXHIBITING CONSCIOUSNESS OF GUILT. THEY DON'T WANT TO BE CAUGHT, BUT HE WAS. SO I THOUGHT, ALL RIGHT, HEAS CAUGHT, HE'S GOING TO COME BACK WHERE W HIS HEAD HUNG LOW AND APOLOGIZE FOR WHAT HE HA DONE, AND INSTEAD HE LWYERED UP AN CAME AFTER ME. I NEVER THOUGHT IT WOULD GOHIS FAR. I NEVER THOUGHT WE WOULD GO TO TRIAL. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT T RE WAS SO MUCH TO BE DISCUSSED. I DIDN'T THINK THAT A YEAR AND HALF LATER I WOULD BE IN A TESTIMONY STAND TALKING ABOUT FACETIMEING MY BOYFRIENDATND HAD TO EAT FOR LUNCH ANDUN DINNER THAT Y. THIS MEANINGLESS INTERROGATION, AND WHAT WASAR VERY CLEN THE BEGINNING QUICKLY BECAME MURKY. I FEEL THAT SO MUCH OFA THE SHME I EXPERIENCED THROUGHOUT THAT PROCESS WAS LEARNED, AN IT'S REALLY INCREDIBLE TO ME HOW MUCH OF THE SHAME ACCUMULATED AND WAS INGESTED THROUGHOUT THAT PROCESS BY SO THAT BY THE END ID DIN'T RECOGNIZE MYSELF, I HAD NO GRASP OF THE SITUATION. I FEEL LIKE I DIDN'DESERVE TO BE TREATED WELL. I FELT HALLOWED OUAND EMPTY THE TIME THE YEAR AND A HAMELF S OVER. IT WAS AN EXTREMELY BRUTAL PROCESS THAT I DON'T EXYOPECT TO GO THROUGH.

>> Nawaz: WHEN THE SENTENCE CAME DOWN, AGAIN, THERE WAS A URRY OF ATTENTION BECAUSE OF HOW LENIENT IT WAS. AND YOU WROTE ABOUT THAT IN THEO . YOU SAID, "THE JUDGE HAD GIVEN BROCK SOMETHING THAT ULD NEVER BE EXTENDED TO ME,P EMATHY. MY MAIN WAS NEVER MORE VALUABLE THAN HIS POTENTIAL." AT?T DID YOU MEAN BY TH

>> I MEAN, THERE WAS NOTHING EVERHATO SUGGEST THAT IA LIFE OUTSIDE OF THE COURTROOM, THAT I WA ON A TRACK OF MY OWN, THAT I HA MY OWNDREAMS AN ENJOYMENTS AND GOALS BEFORE THE ASSAULT HAPPENED. I FELT LIKE NOTHING MORE TH A BODY. I WAS SPOKEN ABOUT IN A VERY JUST PHYSICAL WAY, BUT I DIDN'T FEEL HUMAN. AND I ALWAYS FELT SUFFOCATED, LIKE NO MATTER WHAT I SAID, I COULDN'T BE HEARD. I WOULD LOOK AROUND AND THINK, IS ANYONE ACTUALLY HEARING ME? IT'S A TERRIFYING POSITION TO BE IN, TO FEEL LIKE YOU CAN CRICHTON STAND, THAT YOU CAN YELL A STATEMENT, AND PEOPLE STILL DON'T HEAR YOU. YOU FEEL INVISIBLE, LIKE YOU WILL FOREVER BE MUTED.aw

: YOU HAD THE RELIVE MANY OF THOSE MOMENTS ON THE STAND IN PUBLIC IN FRONT OFS. STRANG YOU HAD TO BE ASKED AND REASKED AND REANSWER A LOT OF THOSE QUESTIONS OVER MANY, MANY HOW IS IT THAT YPT GOING IN ALL OF THOSE DAYS? WHAT DID YOU TELL YOURSELF IN THOSE MOMENTS?

>> IT FEELS LIKE YOU'RE IN THE WATERED, LIKE TAKING IN WATER, LAPPING IT UP, BUT YOU CAN NEVER STOP TO GET A BREATH OF AIR, AND ONLY WHEN I CRIED HARD ENOUGH WOULD THEY FINALLY SAY, OKAY, ENOUGH, STOP, THEY WOULD RELEASE MEO THE BATHROOM. AND I WOULD WAKE UP IN THE MORNING, AND I WOULD THINK, I'M STILL HERE, AND I'M STILL SHOWING UP IN COURT EACH TIME. DOESN'T THAT MEAN SOMETHING?AC THE EVEN IF I WASN'T, YOU KNOW, POSTURING AND SPEAKING WITH A CLEAR VOICE, EVEN IF I WAS HUMILIATING MYSELF ON THET STAND, THE FA THE MATTER IS I WAS THERE. I WAS SITTING IN FRONT OF .VERYONE. I WAS TAKING I AND THE FACT OF JUST SHOWING UP NO MATTER HOW YOU SHOW UP REMINDED ME THAT I'M STILL

>> Brangham: LET ME ASK YOUE IT. ABOUT YOUR STATEMENTS. YOU SAW THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE READING IT, RESPONDING TO IT, WRITING TO YOU ABOUT IT, WHY DO YOU THINK IT RESONATED THE WAY THAT IT DID?

>> I THINK IT WAS HONEST THAT WI HONEST ABOUT THE PANIC THE GUILT, THE FEAR THAT, SHA EVERYONE COULD RELATE TO IT, AND I THINK WE'RE ALL SO USED TO EXPERIENCING THAT IN AN ISOLATED CONTEXT THAT WE'RE NOT TAUGHT TO ENLY SPEAK ABOUT IT. SO I THINK IT WAS LIBERATING FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE THOSE PARTS OF THEIR INTERNAL LANDSCAPE FINALLY PU INTO LIFE.

>> Nawaz: WHEN YOU HEAR SIX MONTHS AND YOU UNDERSTAND HE WILL BIN JAIL FO A MATTER OF WEEKS, DO YOU START TO QUESTT N WHY YOU WHROUGH EVERYTHING YOU WENT THROUGH?

>> OH, YES. IT FELT ALMOST LIKE OKE. LIKE IT WAS SO ANTI-CLIMACHAC. YO ALL THIS TENSION AND GRIEF AND TRAUMA OVER A YEAR AND A HALF, AND YOU GETHERE, AND THEY SAY, ALL RIGHT, SIX MONTHS, WHICH WILL TIMATELY BE THREE. T IT FELT LIKE THIS REALLY LIGHT DUSTING OFF. NO BIG DEAL. THANK YOU FOR COMING.

>> Matt: FOR ALL THOSE "PEOPLE POWER" KNEW YOU ONLY AS EMIL DOE. WHAT IS IT LIKE TO SEE YOUR BOLD LETTERS ON THE COVER OF AIG BOOK?

>> IT'S REALLY WONDERFUL. I FEEL LIKE I CAN FULLY EXIST IN THE WORLD. I FEEL LIKE IN TH BENING I BE BRANDED BY THIS CASE, THATD THAT WOULD BE MY LABEL EXCLUSIVELY. THE FACT THAT I'M ABLE TO MERGER AS ATER WITH THIS TANGIBLE OBJECT TO ANCHOR ME IS REA AY WONDER I FEEL VERY PROUD OF THAT.

>> Matt: CHANEL MI THAT, YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME. B ngham: MIX FANTASY AND HISTORY, TO TELL A TALE OFD SLAVERY MORY. IN THE LATEST ADDITION TO OUR "NEWSHOUR BOOKSHELF," JEFFREY BROWN SI DOWN WITH TA'NEHISI COATES ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK, PART OF OUR ART AND CULTURE SERIES, "CANVAS."

>> Brown: TA'NEHISI COATES, APPEARING BEFORE CONGRESS THIS YEAR TO MAKE THE CASE FOR ECONOMIC COSTS OF Y...MAN AND

>> THE TYPICAL BLACK FAMILY IN THIS COUNT HAS ONE-TENTH THE WEALTH OF THE TYPICAL WHITE FAMILY. THE MATTER OF REPARATIONS IS ONE OF MAKING AMENDS.

>> Brown: ...AN EXAMPLE OF THE FORCEFUL ADVOCACY AND POWERFULAR DATA-DRIVEN GUMENT FOR WHICH HE'S BECOME SO WELL-KNOWN, WRITING INFLUENTIAL MAGAZINE ARTICLES, AND A SERIES OF NON-FICTION WORKS, INCLUDING HIS 2015 NATIONAL BOOK AWARD- WINNING "BETWEEN THE AND ME." BUT, ITURNS OUT, FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS, HE'S ALSO BEEN WRITING SOMETHING ELSE, GOIN BEYOND FACTS AND FIGURES. S AREE MATH AND THE NUMB REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT. BUT WHEN YOU START GETTING TOIN VIDUAL PEOPLE-- THERE'S A PART IN "BETWEEN THE WORLD AND ME" WHEN I SAY, "SLAVERY IS NOT AN AMALGAM OF PEOPLE, IT'S DOT, DOT."THIS PERSON DOING DOT, AND THIS IS THE ATTEMPT TO LIVE IN THE WORLD OF SUCH A PERSON. : AND THAT'S AN ANSWER

>> YES, THAT'S DEFY AN ANSWER.

>> Brown: COATES' LATEST BOOK IS NOVEL, HIS FIRST. "THE WATER DANCER," SET ON A PLANTATION IN 19th CENTURY VIRGINIA, ALONG THE UNDERGROUNDS RAILROTEM OF SAFE HOUSES THAT HELPED SLAVES ESCAPE TO FREEDOM, AND IN ILADELPHIA. MOST NOTABLY HARRIMAN, THE FORMER SLAVE WHOSE HEROIC RESCUE SLAVES NORTH.GHT HUNDREDS OF IN NEW YORK RECENTLY, COATES SAID HE WANTED TO COUNTER WHAT HE SEES AS THE MANY MYTHS OF THE OLD SOUTH, THAT CONTINUE TO THIS DAY.

>> WHAT BECAMELEAR TO ME IS THAT Y CAN'T WIN THIS ARGUMENT THE FACTS WON'T DOTS. PEOPLE ARE HOLDING ONTO SOMETHING ELSE. THIS IS THE REASON WHY PEOPLE GATHER, FOR INSTANCE, TO PROTEST TAKING DOWN CONFEDERATE STATUES. THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM OF HISTORY. THIS IS A PROBLEM OF MYTH.

>> Brown: WHEN YOU SAY "MYTH," YOU MEAN, LIKE, "STORY?"

>> Brown: SO YOU'RE TAKINGHT. ACTUAL THINGS AND GIVING IT A DIFFERENT SORT OF LIFE IN FICTION?

>> YES. MUCH OF THAT MYTH WAS DRAWN OUTF CTUAL HISTY: ROBERT E. LEE IS A HISTORICAL FIGURE, AND THERE'S A MYTHOLOGICAL ROBERT E. LEE. I FELT THAT MAYBE THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THE EXACT SAME THING WITH BLACKS WHO LIVED UNDER THE PERIOD OF ENSLAVEMENT, THAT TRE WERE STORIES AND MYTHS THAT COULD BE DRAWN OUT AND WRITTEN IN A COMPELLING AND LITERARY WAY.

>> Brown: HOW MUCH RESEARCH WENT INTO IT? DID YOU-- YOU'RE LAUGHING AS

>> A LOT!U

>> Brown: PROACHED THIS THE WAY-- YOU'RE A NON-FICTION WRITER, YOU'RE A JOURNALIST.

>> I DID. THAT WAS THE START, SO I VISITEA A TON OF SLAVEATIONS.

>> Brown: DID YOU READ MANY FIRST-HAND AD OUNTS?

>> I RTON OF FIRST-HAND ACCOUNTS.

>> Brown: BUT HOW MUCH DID IT WD UP INFORMING THE--

>> I COULDN'T HATTEN THE BOOK WITHOUT IT. I FELT LIKE THE GREATEST CHALLENGE IN THE BOOK WAS THAT THE WAS ALREADY, I THINK, MOST PEOPLE'S MINDS, AN IMAGE OF SLAVERY. AND THAT IMAGE REVOLVES AROUND WHIPS.VE IT REVAROUND CHAINS, IT REVOLVES AROUND COTTON PICKING. IT REVOLVES AROUND RAPE.ES ARE ALL OF THESE TROPES THAT ARE ALREADY THERE.

>> Brown: AND THEY'RE ALL TRUE.

>> AND THEY'RE ALLRUE. THEY'RE DEFINITELY ALL TRUE. BUT WHEN I WENT BACK THROUGH THE DOCUMENTATION, THE THING THAT STRUCK ME MOST, IN FACT, WAS HOW MUCH FAMILY SEPARATION WAS A PART OF THE STORY OF ENSLAVEMENT. MUCH OF THE GRIEVING, THAT I SAW IS A WIFE SEPARATED FROM HER HUSBAND, A MOTHER SEPARATED FROM AR CHILD, A FATHER SEPARATED FROM A CHILD, CHILD SEPARATED FROM A GRANDMOTHER. AND THAT'S THE PLACE "THE WATER ERNCER" LIVES.

>> Brown: BUT THE'S MORE. I COATALSO A LONG-TIME READER AND WRITER OF COMICS AND FANTASY STORIES, INCLUDING PARTT OF THE "BLACK R" SERIES. HE'S GIVEN HIS YOUNG PROTAGONIST IN THE NOVEL HIS KIND OF SUPERPOWER-- ONE BASED ON THE IT'S AN INTERESTINRPOWER TO GIVE AN ENSLAVED PERSON, MEMORY, RIGHT? ALST AN INABILITY TO FORGE

>> A LOT OF THIS IS ABOUT HOWS AFRICAN AMERICMEMBER THEIR OWN HISTORY. I THINK THIS IS NO LONGER TRUE, BUT CERTAINLY, LET'S SAY TWO OR THREE GENERATIONS BEFORE ME, THERE CERTAINLY WAS A PREVAILING NOTION THAT WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT ENSLAVEMENT. WE JUST DIDN'T MENON IT. YOU JUST MOVE ON, YOU DON'T REPEAT THE TRAUMAS. BUT ONE OF THE IMPLICIT IDEAS IN THIS IS THAT YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY MOVE. THERE'S SO MUCH THAT YOU CAN'T DO, WHEN YOU'RE SO INTENT ON FORGETTING. AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE YOU CAN DO IF YOU ACTUALLY GRAB IT BY THE RES, YOU KNOW, GB MEMORIES BY THE REINS AND SAY, "LOOK, THIS ACALLY HAPPENED."

>> Brown: COATES' CELEBRITY HASI TAKEFAR, AND HE IS REGULARLY CITED AS ONE OF TODAY'S LEADING PUBLIC INTELLECTUALS. I ASKED IF HE FELT PRESSURE TO MAKE EVERYTHING HE PUTS OUT-- INCLUDING THIS NOVEL-- FEEL "IMPORTANT" TO THE MOMENT.

>> IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE IMPORTANT, BUT I HAVE TO FEEL LIKE IT'S REHALY GOOD. TO BE EXCITED, BUT I DON'T NEED TO BE OPERATING IN FRONT OF A BIG CROWD EVERY TIME. I NEED TO BE EXCITED BY TH CHALLENGE. I NEED TO NOT BE ABLE TO SLEEP. THAT WAS TRUE BEFORE I HAD AN AUDIENCE, THAT WILL BETERUE MY AUDIENCE LEAVES ME.

>> Brown: COATES' NOVEL IS THE LATEST BY A CELEBRATED AFRICAN AMERICAN ARTIST TO EXPLORE PAINFUL HISTORY AND CULTURE IN CREATIVE NEW WAYS.

>>R THINK YOU HAVE IS NUM OF AFRICAN AMERICANS WHO HAVE A LEVEL OF PROMINENCE IN LITERATU, IN THE ARTS, IN MEDIA, WORKING ACTUALLY WITH OTHER AFRICAN AMERICANS. THEY AREN'T ALONE.

>> Brown: MORE COMFORTABLE? OR MORE URGENT? OR MORE...

>> NO, I THINK THE DESIRE WAS ALWAYS THERE. BUT I THINK IT'S VERY DIFFERTCO WHEN YOU HAVE UNITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING AT A CERTAIN LEVEL, TELLING THOSE STORIES.

>> Brown: AND WHAT DO YOU THINKH IS, OR MIGHT ADD UP TO, IN TERMS OF A RE-TELLING OF THE HISTORY, THE MYTH, THE ACTUAL HISTORY?

>> IHINK PART OF THE HISTORY ACOF RACISM AND WHITE SUPRIN THIS COUNTRY IS THE STRANGLEHOLD IT'S HAD ON THE STORY THE COUNTRY TELLS ITSELF. IF THERE IS ANY AREA OF OPTIMISM WHAT I'M OPTIMISTIC ABOUT IT'S IN THAT AREA.PO THERE'TICS THAT HAPPENS AT THE BALLOT BOXAND THEN THERE'S A BROADER CONTEXT AROUND THAT POLITICS, ANOTHER KIND OF POLITICS THAT HAPPENS IN OUR CULTURE.PP WHEN YOU SEE WHITE KIDS, LITTLE WHITE KIDS, DREING UP AS BLACK PANTHER FOR HALLOWEEN, SOMETHING'S SHIFTING, SOMETHING'S CHANGED. THAT WASN'T TRUE WHEN I WAS A KID. EIO YOU SEE AS A HERO-- WHO YOU SEE AS A HUMAN B-- ALL OF THAT INFORMS THE ACTUAL POLITICS. WHERE I PROBABLY SEE THE MOST SHIFT AND THE MOST CHANGE. "

>> Brown: ALL RIGHT, THE BOOK IS "THE WATER DANCE VERYEHISI COATES, THANK YO MUCH.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME, JEFF.

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