The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer : WETA : November 9, 2009 7:00pm-8:00pm EST; The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer

Caioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCONS

>> Lehrer: GOOD EVENING. I'M JIMEHRER. ON T NEWSHOUR THIS MONDAY, THE LEAD STORY: HETH CARE REFORM MOVES FROM T HOUSE TO THE SENATE. BETTY ANN BOWSER HATHE LATEST ON THE OVERHAUL EFFORT JUDY WOODRFF LOOKS AHEAD. THEN, AFTER THE OTHER NE OF THE DA TWO TAKES ON THE FORT HOOD MASSACRE. GWEN ILL UPDATES THE VESTIGATION OF THE ALLEGED SHOOTER. TOM BEARDEN RERTS ON HOW THE TOWN OF KILLN, TEXAS, IS COING WITH THE TRAGEDY. THAT WE LOVE AND HON AND --

>> WE HAVE AN EXCLIVE INTERVIEW WH WHAT MID KARZAI.

>> Lehrer: MAARET WARNER HAS EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH AFGHAN PRESIDENT KZAI ABOUT CORRUPON AND THE COALITION WAR EFFORT. THE SECRETS OF AFGHANISTAN IT IS HERE TO FIHT THE WAR ON RROR.

>> Jim: MARCIA CLE REPORTS ON E SUPREME COURT, AND JEFFREY BROWNREMEMBERS THE FALL OF THE Lehrer: MARCIA COYLE OF THE "NATIONAL LAW JOUAL" REPORTS TODAY'S SUPREME COURT ARGUMENTS ABOUT LIFEENTENCES THOUT PAROLE FOR JUVENILES. AND JEFFREY OWN REMEMBERS THE FALL OF THE BERLIN WALL, 20 YEARS LATER. MAJOR FUNNG FOR THE NEWSHR WITH JIM LEHR IS PROVIDED BY:

>> THIS IS THE ENNE THAT CONNECTSBUNDANT GRAIN FROM THE AMERAN HEARTLAND TO HARAN'S BEST-SELLING WHOLE WAT, WHILE KEEPING 60 BILLIOPOUNDS OF CAON OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE EVERY YEAR. B.N.F., THE ENGINE THAT CONNECTS US. MONSANTO. ODUCING MORE. COSERVING MORE. IMPROVING FARRS' LIVES. THAT'S SUSTAINABLE AGRILTURE. MORE AT producemoconservemore.com. AND BY TOYOTA. THE WILAM AND FLORA HEWLETT FOUNDATION, WORKINGO SOLVE SOCIAAND ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS AT HOME AND AROUNDHE WORLD. AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPRT OF THESE INSTUTIONS AND FOUATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE SSIBLE BY THE CORPORATN FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING AND CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROVIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU.

>> Lehrer: E FIGHT OVER HEALTH CARE REFORM SHIFD TO THE U.S. SATE TODAY. THE HOUSE APOVED ITS BILL OVER THE WEEKEND, B PROSPECTS FOR PASSAGE IN THE SENATE RAINED UNCLEAR. NEWSHOUR HEALTH CORRESPDENT TTY ANN BOWSER HAS OUR LEAD STORY REPORT.

>> THE BATTLE LINESAVE ALREADY BEEDRAWN BY THE TIME THAT THE SENATE CAME INTO SSION TODAY. ILLINOIS DEMOCRAT DK DBIN --

>> I IS STILL THE ONLY -- THIS IS SLL THE ONLY INDUSTRIALIZED NATION IN THEORLD THAT A PERSOCAN LITERALLY DIE FOR LACK OF A HEALTHNSURANCE D THAT'WHAT WE FACE ABOUTHE DEBATE IN HEALTHRE REFORM. LOTOF OPINIONS, I SALUTE THE HOUSE FOR PASSING THE MEASURE. NDING IT OVER HERE AND WEL HEAR THOSE OPINIONS EXPRESSED IN THE SENATE IN THE WEEKS AN MONTHS TO COME.

>> NEBRASKA REPUBLICAN MI JOEHAN. >THE GOVERNMENT MANDATES AND ALL OF THETHER THINGS BURDENED UPON HEALTH INSURANCE POLICIES ARE GOING TO CAU THE PREMIUM TOISE. WEE SADDLING POLICIES WITH HUGE FEES AND TAXES AND MANDATES.

>> THE DEBATE TOOK ON NEW IMPORT LATE SATURDAY NIGHT AFTER HOUSE DEMOCRATS PUSH THROUGH THEIR RSION OF THE BILL.

>> THE YEA ARE 220. THE NAYS ARE 215. THE BILL IS PASD.

>> THE HOU MEASURE WOLD EXTENDCOVERAGE TO 36 MILLION AMERICANS WHO ARE NOUNINSURED. NEARLY EVERY AMERICAN WOULDAVE TO OBTAIN HETH INSURANCE BY 2013. AND COMPANIES WOULD HAVE TO COVER EMPLOYEES, THOUGSMALL BUSINESS WOULD BE EXEMPT. THE BILL WLD ALSO FUND SURANCE EXCHANGES TO LET THOSE WITHOUTOVERAGE SHOPOR A PLAN. A GOVNMENT-RUN INSURANCE OPTION WOULD BE INCLUDED. AND THERE WOULDE SUBSIDIES TO HELP LOWER INCOME PEOPLE Y COVERAGE. BUT TODAY, REPUBLIC SENATOR CHARL GRASEY SAID THAT THE HOUSE LL WAS AONSTARTER.

>> THE HOUSE BILL GIVEME VERY MUCH NCERN OF THE HEALTHCARE GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. THE HEALTH BILL ISEAD ON ARRIVAL IN THESENATE NO BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO VE A VOTE ON I BUT THERE'S TWO SEPARATE SENATE BILLS ANDI THINK THE WOROF THE SENATE WE WANT TO PROCEED WITH OURS D SET NIL --ETTLE ANY DIFFERENCES WITH THE HOUSE A THE CONFERENCE. >>AND HARRY REID HAS BEEN MEETING BEHIN CLOSED DOORS WITH FELW DEMOCRATS FOR WEEKS. THE FACT THATPEAKER PELOSI WHO HAD SU A LARGEAJORITY IN THE HOUSE AND PASSED THE BILL WIT JUST TWO VOTEMORE THAN SHE EDED COULD SERVE AS A WARNING SIGN TO DEMRATIC LEADERS IN THE SENAT OVER THE WEEKENDT BECAME CLEAR TH THE MJORITY LEER REID COULD HAVE A RAL STRUGGLE ON HIS HDS GETTING T 60 VOTES HE NEEDS TO STT DEBATE ON HEAHCARE REFORM. ONE THE MAJOR STUMBLING BLOCKS FOR REPUBLICANS AND SOME MODERATE DEMOCRATS IS THEREID'S DECISION TO INCLUDE A PUBLIC OPTIONN THE SENATE BILL. HE HOPES TO WIN OVER THE MODERATESY LETTING STATES OPT OUT OF THE GOVERNMENT-RUN PROGRAM. BUT ON SUNDAY,OE LIEBERMAN REWED HIS PROMISE TO OPPOSE ANY BILL THAT INCLUD SUCH AN OPTION

>> IF THE PUBLIC OPTON PLAN IS IN THERE AS MATTERF CONSCIENCE I WILL NOT ALLOW THIS BILL TO COME TO A FINAL VOTE. >>N THE OTHER HAND, RHODE ISLAND DEMOCRAT JACKEED EXPRESSED COIDENCE THAT IT WOULD PASS.

>> SENATOR HARRY REID HAS INTRODUD THE PUBLIC OPTION AND WE ARE FARROM THE END OF THE DEBATE IN THE SENAT I HOPE THAT A PUBLIC OPTION IS RT OF THE FINAL BIL

>> BEND THE PUBLIC OPTI THERE AR OTHER ISSUESTHAT COULD ROIL THE SENATE DEBATE INCLUNG ABORTION. ATHE LAST MINUTE THE HOUSE BLOCKED THE USE OF FEDERAL SUSIDIES TO BUY INSURANCE THAT COVERS ELECTIVE ABORTIONS AND COULDBAR POLICIES ON THE INSURANCE EXCHANGE THAT CER THE PROCEDUR THE RESTRICONS WERE AIMED AT WINNING OVER ABORTION OPPONTS. BUT I TOUCHED OFF PROTEST TODAY AT THE CAPITAL. PUBLICLY AT LST WHITE HOUSE FICIALS TOOK THE BACK AND FORTH IN STRIDE ODAY. SPOKESMAN ROBERT GIBBS SAID THEIR FUSED --HEY'RE FUSED ON THE END GAME.

>> THE PRESIDENT WANTS TSIGN HEALTHCAREEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR. >>HERE'S NO WORD ON WHEN THE SENATE WILL TAKE UP ITS VERSION OFHE BILL. MARITY LEADER REID HAS NOT REASED FULL DETAILS YET. S OFFICE SAID HE'S STILL WAITING FOR A COST ESTIMATE OM THE CONGRESONAL BUDGET OFFICE.

>> Jim: JUDY WOODRUFF HAS MORE.

>> Ju: WE ARE JOINED BY NORM ON STEEN, A RESIDENT SCHAR AT THE AMERICAN ENTERISE INSTITUTE. THANK YOU FOR BEI WITH US. > MY PLEASURE.

>> Judy: NOW THATHEY HAVE GOTTEN IT THROUGH THE OUSE, THEY MOVE O TO THE SENATEAND WHAT ARE THE CHALNGES THAT LIE HEAD FOR THE DOCRATS AND THE PRESIDENT?

>> THIS IS A BIG BATTLAHEAD, IT'S NOTTHE FINAL BATTLE, BUT WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN NOW IS THEY HAVE GOT TO FI A WAY TO GET A LL, WHATEVER IT CONTAINS THROUGH THE SENA SO THAT THEY CAN THENO TO A HOUSE SENA CONFENCE COMMITTEE AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO RESOLVE MANY OF THE KNOTTYSSUES LIKE THE ABOION ONE. FOR HARRY REID RHT NOW IT'S COMING UP WITH PACKAGE AND HE HOPES AS SOON AS HE CANBUT IT TAKES A ILE IN THE SENAT ERE HE CAN GET 60 VOTES. NANCY LOSI IN THE HOUSE HAD SOME SLAC SHE COULD LOSEP TO 40 DEMOCRATSAND STILL PREVAIL WITH ONLY DEMOCRATS. SHE LOST 39. HARRY REID NEEDS ALL 60 DEMOCRATS OR HE LOSES O OR TWO AND RHT NOW HE'S GOT ONE AT LEAST WHO'S GONE, HE'S T TO FIND A REPUICAN OR TWO. THAT'S HIS BIGCHALLENGE.

>> dy: IS HE IN ESSENCE INHE SENATE, NO, STARTING FROM SCRATCH?

>> YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE BEE WORKING ON TWOBILLS, JUDY, THAT PASSED THE TWO CMITTEES. THE HEALTH EDUCATION LABOR AND PENSIONS COMMITT ANDHE FINAE COMMITTEE. A TRYING TO ME THEM TOGETHR. NOW HE HATO BE MINDFUL OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE HOUSE, B MORE IMPORTANTHAN ANYTHING ELSE, TH JOE LIEBERMAN, THE INDEPENDENT DEMORAT WHO SAID VEN AS RECENTLY AS YESTERDAY IN THE HARDENED POSITION THAT IF A PUBLIC OPTION IS THE SETE PLAN, HE WON'T TE TO CUT OFF DEBATE IN T FINAL ISSUE. THEY MAY NOT EVEN GET TO A FINAL VOTE. THAT MEANS HARRYEID HAS TO FIND A 60th VOTE SOMEWHE AND THAT MEANS OLYMPIA SNOWEWHO HAS BEEN RECTANT BECAUSE REID -- A REPUBLICAN FR MAINE WHO VOTED TO REPO THE BILL OUT OFTHE FINCE COMMITTEE. THONLY REPUBLICAN SO FAR TO INDICATE SUPPORT FOANY HEALTH PLAN THAT WOULD JOIN WITH DEMOCRATS. BUT WHO IS VERY RELUCTA TO JOIN AND IFHERE'S THE KIND OF PUBLIC OPTION THAT THE SENE SD THEY WOULD INCLUDE THAT HARRY REID -- HE MAY HAVE TO MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT BEFO HE BRINGS IT TO THE FLOOR.

>> Judy: SO PUBLIC OION IS ONE OF THEM, NOT T ONLY ONE.

>> NO, THERE E REAL DIFFERENCES WITH THE MOCRATS IN THE USE AND THE CKAGE AT THEY PRODUCED AND SOMEEAL CONTROVERSIES THAT CONTIE. HEAVY FEES, HEAVIER THAN HAD BEEN ANTICIPATED FOR MEDICAL DEVE MANUFACTURERS, PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIESAND OTHERS. THEY HAVE GOT PROVISION IN HERE WHICHOST ECONOSTS BELIE IS A GOOD ONE, BUT WHH IS VERY COROVERSIAL WITH LABOR, WHICH ISO PUT PENALTIES OR TAXES ON THE CADILLAC PLANS, SO CAED, THE MORE EXPSIVE HEALTHCARE PLANS. THEY HAVE GOT A PROVISION O HAVE AN INDEPEENT COMMISSION THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO REGULATE MORE OR REIN IN ULTIMATY THE COSTS FORHE MEDICARE PROGRAM. O THERE ARE A LOOF KNOTTY ISSUES, BUT RIGHT W IT'S FINDING WAY TO GET A PUBLIC HEALTH-- PUBLIC PL OPTION IN THAT WILL SATFY THELIBERALS BUMAY ALSO BRING IN AN OLYMP SNOWE IF YOU'RE GING TO LOSE JOE LIEBERMAN AND MAKING SURE THAT THE OTHER RECALCIANT DEMOCRATS LE BEN NELSONF IN R NEBRAS ARE ALSO ON BOARD.

>> Judy:OU WERE SAYING ABORTION, THIS ABORTI FIGHT NOT IS NOT THE FIRST CONCERFOR SENATOR REIDBUT HOW DIDTHAT UNFOL AND HOW HA IS THAT GOING TO BE TO GET RESOLVED?

>> THAT ENDED UP BEING THE KNOTTIEST QUESTION FOR PELOSI. SHE COULDAVE LOST POTENTIALLY 40 VOTESLONE FROM PRO-LIFE DEMOCRATSN THE HOUSE, AND MADE A CHOICE IN THE END TO COM UP ITH A TOUGH PROVISION TO KEE ABORTION BASILLY OUT OF ANY OF THESE EXCHANGES. EVEIF PEOPLE WEREWILLING TO PAY SARATELY INTO A SEGREGATE ACCOUNT F COVERAGE OF ABORTIONS. HAT MEANT SHE FACED THE FURY OF PRO-CHOICE DEMOCRA, BUT OMISED THEN THAT THERE WOU BE A RESOLUON OF IT IN THE DIFFENT WAY IN THE FINAL BILL. THAT'S THE COFERENCE COMMIEE. WHAT MADE THE DIFFERENCE HERE IN GETTINGHE COMPROMISE THAT MIGHT SATISFY BOTH SIDES WAS THE CATHOLICISHOPS SAYING THAT A COMPROMISE WAS NOT ACCTABLE TO THEM AUESTION NOW --HE ABOION ISS HAS NOT BEEN A HOT TOPIC IN THE SENATE DELIBERATIONS IN THEINANCE COMMITTEE OR I THE HEAL COMMITTEE IS WHETHER THE CATHOLIC BHOPS FEELING THEIR POWER NOW STEP IN AND BEGITO PRESSURE AT IS POINT PRO-LIFE DEMOCRATIC SENORS WHO HAVE BEEN VERYUPPORTIVE OF A HEALTH REFM PACKAGE, LIE BOB CASEY OF PENNSYLVANIA,ND RAISE IT IN THE SENATE. MOREHAN LIKE THEY CAN FIESSE IT NOW, BUT EN THEY'RE GOINGO HAVE TO COME TO A RESOLUTION AT THE NXT BIG BATTLE DOWN THE ROAD WHICH IS THE CONFERENCE COMMITTEE, IF THEY CAN GET60 VTES FOR BILL IN THE SENATE.

>> Judy: OF WHI MAKES EVEN MORE MPLICATED. INALLY, LET'S PUT THISN PERSPECTIVE, NO. W SIGNIFICANT WAS THE FACT THATT DID PASS THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES?

>> THIS WAS HUGE IT'S THE FIRSTTIME WE HAVE GOTTEN A MAJOR HEALTH BILL THIS FAR. AND THE FACT THAT I HAPPENED LESS THAN A WEEK AFTER AN ELECTION SETBACK FOR DEOCRATS, THAT REALLY WEHED HEAVILY ON FRESHMEN DEMOCRATFROM DISTRICTS THAT HN McCAIN HAD CARED, FOR PEOP WHO FEEL VULNEBLE IN 2010 KNOWING THAT THE PAR WAS BACK ONTS HEELS IN 209 WAS A BIG SITIVE SIGN, A SIGN OF SOME MOMENTUM AT JT E POINT THEY NEEDED IT. A SIGN THAT THERE'S A REAL PRPECT THAT WE'LL STILLGET A HEALTHCARE BILL THROUGH A ENACTED INTOLAW. THE TIMI MAY NOT FIT TH WHAT PRESIDENT OBAMA WANTED,UT THERE WAA BIG STEP.

>> NM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> Jim: INTHER NEWS TODAY --

>> Lehr: IN OTHER NEWS TODAY, WALL REET SHOT HIGHER AFTER 20 ADING NATIONS AGREED OVER T WEEKEND TO CONTINUE ECONOIC STIMULUS EFFORTS. THE DOW JONES INDUSTAL AVERAGE GAINED 203 POINTS TO CLOSNEAR 10,227. THE NASDAQ ROSE 41 INTS TO CLOSET 2154. IRAQ HASET A DATE FOR NATIONAL ECTIONS, NEXT JANUARY 21. ON SUNDAY, PARLIANT APPROVED A L NEEDED TO ORGANIZE THE VOTING AFR WEEKS OF DEADLOCK. TODAY THE ELECTORAL COMSSION SET THE ACAL DATE. ANMAJOR DELAY IN THE ELECTIONS COULD HAVSLOWED THE U.S. ILITARY PULLOUT. SO TODAY, THE U.S. ARMY REPORTED TWO HELOPTER PILOTS WERE KILLED YESTERDAY IN A CRASH. THERE WAS NO INDICAON OF HOSTILE FIRE. AMERICANS ACCED A SENIOR PROSECUTOR IN IRAN ACCUSED REE ERICANS OF ESPIONAGE TODAY. THEHREE HAVE BEEN HELD SINCE JULY. RELATIV SAID THEY WERE HIKING IN IRAQ AND ACCIDENTALLY STYED ACROSS THE BORD INTO IRAN. INERMANY TODAY, SECRETARY OF STATE CLINTON CALLED FOR THR IMMEDIATE RELEASE.

>> WE BELIEVETRONGLY THAT HERE IS NO EVIDENCE TOUPPORT Y CHARGE WHATSOEVER. AND WE WOULD RENEW OUR REQUE ON BEHF OF THES THREE YOUNG PELE AND THEIR FAMILIES THAT THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT EXERCISE COMPASSION AND LEASE THEM SO THY CAN RETURN HOME.

>> Lehrer: THERE WAS NO IMMEDIATEORD ON WHEN THE ERICANS MIGHT GO TO TRIAL. BUT IN ISTANBU TURKEY, TODAY, IRANIAN PRESIDENTHMADINEJAD BRUSH ASIDE OBJECTIONS. HE SAID, "IN ALL COUNTRIE CROSSING BORDS WOULD HAVE A VERHEAVY SENTENCE." AUTHORITIEIN CHINA HAVE EXECUTED NINE MEN FOR THEIR INVOLVEMENT IN ETHNIC RIOTNG LAST LY. EIGHWERE MUSLIM UIGHURS. E UIGHURS WENT ON A RAMPA LAST LY IN FAR WESTERN CHINA, WHEN TENSIO WITH THE DOMINANT N CHINESE BOILED OVER. ALL LD, MORE THAN 200 PEOPLE WERE KILLED. IN EL SAADOR, SOLDIERS AND VILLAGERS CONTINUEDIGGING THROUGH ROCK AND DEBRIS FOR DOZENS OFEOPLE MISSING IN A MUDSLIDE. LEAST 130 PEOPLE WERE KILLE WHEN THREE DAYS OF HEAVY RAI TRIGGER FLOODING AND ANDSLIDES. SOME 7,000 HOMES WEREAMAGED OR DESTROD. SALVADOR'S PRESIDENT DECLl AND ALONG THE.S. GULF COAST, COASTAL TOWNS FROM LOUISIA TO FLORIDA BRACED FOR TROPIL STORM IDA. E SYSTEM WAS DOWNGRADED FROM HURRICANE STATUS TODAY, ND COULD WEAKEN FURTHER BEFE MAKINGANDFALL TOMORROW RNING. T LATE-SEASON STORM WAS THE RST ONE THIS YEAR TO POSE A SERIOUS THREAT IN THE GULF. MOST OF PHILADELPHIA'S TRANIT SVICE WAS RESTORED TODAY, JUST TIME FOR MORNING RUSH HOUR. A SIX-DASTRIKE ENDED EARLY THIS MORNING AFTER A DEAL W BROKERED BEEEN THE CITY'S TRAIT SYSTEM AND UNION OFFICIALS. SUBWAY, BUS, AND TROLLEYERVICE HA BEEN SHUT DOWN SINCE LAST TUESDAY, WHEN THOUNDS OF WORKERS WALKED OFF THE JOB THE DISPUTE NTERED ON PENSION BENEFITS. AND ILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR TONIGH AFGHAN PRESIDENT KARZAI; SENTCING JUVENILES TO LIFE; A MEMBERING THE FALL OF THE WALL. THAT FOLLOWS OUR TWO KES ON THE KILLIN AT THE FORT HOOD ARMY BASE. GWEN IFILL BENS WITH AN UPDATE ON THE INSTIGATION.

>> Ifill: JOING US TO DISCUSS THE STATUS OF THE INVESTITION INTO SHOOTING SPECT NIDAL MALIK HAN IS SPENCER HSU, WHO CERS HOMELAND SECURITY FOR TH "WASHINGTON POST WELCOME,R. HSU. SO AS FAR AS WE KNOW,HAT ARE THE INVTIGATORS FOCUSING ON RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, WE'RE EXPTING ADDITIONAL DETALS TONHT, BUT THEY'RE INTERESTED MOST IN PIECING TOGETHER A MOSAIC OF DR. SAN'S MIND AND IF IT WAS MOTIVATED BY PEONAL, EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS, UNHAPPINESS WHICH THE WA WITH THE ARMY, WITH THE IDEOLOGICAL DISAEEMENTS WITH AMERICA OR WITHOREIGN TERRORIST GROUPS. THERE ARE WIDE RANGE OF LEADS BEING RU DOWN

>> Gw: WE HAVEEARD TODAY THAT MAJOR HASAN IS CONSCIOUS AND TALKING. HAVE ANY OF E INVESTIGATORS BEEN ABLE TO TA TO HIM YET?

>> NOT SO FA HE HAS A LITARY LAWYER WHO'S ASKEDIRST OF ALL FOR THE INVESTIGAON TO BE MOVED, HE CAN'T GET A IR TRIAL GIVEN THE PUBLICITY AND PRESINT OBAMA IS GOINDOWN TO FT. HOOD TOMORROW.

>> GwenTHERE HAS BEEN MUCH REPORTING A COMMENTARY ABOUT POTENTIAL LKS BETWEEN MAJOR HASAN AND PEOPLE WHO LI TMSELVESES TO TERRORISM. WHAT CANOU TELL US BASED ON YOUR REPORTING?

>> WE ARE HEARING A LOT MO, AND WHAT WE CAN SAY GHT NOW IS THAT AMONTHE FOCUSEIS MAJOR HASAN'S CSSING PAS WITH THE NORTHERN VIRGINIA IMAN WHO HS LEFT THE COUNY AND IS AN AMERICAN-BORN IMA BUT HAS EMERG AS ONE OF THE LEADING PROMOTERS OF AL QAEDAOW BASED OVERSEAS. HIS LECTURHICH AREESCRIBED AS FIERY AND INCENDIARY HAV BEEN FOUND,OWNLOADED VERAL TERRORISMUSPECTS IN NORTH AMERICA,ANADA AND THE UNED KINGM. INCLUNG IT AEARS THOUGH ONE THE SOMALI AMERICAN YOU WHO HAVEEFT THE COUNTRY TO JOIN AN AL QAEDA LINKED GROUP IN SOMALIA LAST YEAR APPARENTLY THE TWO MAY HAVE CROSSED PATHS BECSE IN 2001 MAJOHASAN WENT TO A FUNERAL WHERE THIS IMAN WAS PSENT. HE MAY HAVE HADCONTACT WITH TWO THE 9-11HIJACKERS. D SINCE THE IMAN SUPPOERS POINT OUT THAT THEY CONDEMNED THE 9-11 ATTACKS ANDPPARENTLY ONLY LT THE COUNTRY IN 2000, BUT HE HAD BEEN UNDER THE FBI'S EYAND THE FBI NEVER CHARGE HIM.

>> Gwen: WE DON'T KNOW IF THE FBI HAS ESTABLIED RIGHT NOW AN DEFINITIVEINKS BETWEEN MAJOR HASAN AND THE IMAN ANWAR AL AWLAKI. >>THE WAY IT'S BEEN DESCRIBED TO ME, THIS INDIVIDUAL THE IMA IS THE LEADG PROMOTER, AN TREACH TO NORTH AMERICANS THT MAJOR HASAN H BEEN REACHING OUT AND LOOKING AT EXTREMIST WEBSITES. IT WOULD NOT BE SURISING AT ALL TH -- IF THE CONTAC INCLUDED SPEFIC OUTREACH TO AL LAKI, IF THAT'S ONE WAY OR TWO WAY, THAT COULD BE PAIVELY LOING AT A BSITE, IT MAY BE SOMETHING MORE. 'S SOMETHING THAT INVESTIGATORS ARE LOOKINGAT. I WA YOU TO KEEP IN MND THAT MAJOR HASA IT'S BEEN REPORTED HAS EVEN RCHED OUT TO IMANS HERE, BOTH FOR JUST, YOU KNOW, PASTORAL COUNSELG, MAYBE HELP FINDING A WIF BUT EXPLORING HE ISSUES AND QUESTIONS OVER NOT JUST -- NOT ABOUTTHE APPROPRIATESS OF FIGHTING, BUT ABOUT RESPONS TO, YU KNW, WHAT IS IT ABOUT -- HOW TO BALANCE BNG A GOOD MUSLIM WITH BEING A GD SOLDIER OR MERICAN, IF THIS CASE HE MAY HAVE HAD RESERVAONS ABOUT FIGHTINGTHER MUSLIMS. SHOULD REMEMBER THAT THERE HAS BEEN A WEBSTE POSTING OF ANY DAHL HAN, AND HE DID XPRESS THESE WITH SUICIDE ATTACKER EQUATING PPLE W COMMIT A SUICIDE ATTACK TO A SOLDIER WHO JUM ON THE GRENADE TO SAVE PEOPLE'S LIS.

>> Gwen: ARE ERE ACTIVITIES THAT PEOPLE SHLD HAVE BEEN AWE OF WHO WEREN'T?

>> THAT IS EXACTLY WHERE WE ARE HEARING SOME REACTIONROM PEOE IN CONGRESS IN PARTICULAR. THERE IS SO CONCERN THAT THESE COMMUNICATIONMAY HAVE BEEN TAKING PLACE. CERTAINLY THENE PUBLIC WEB POSTING THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT CA FROM ABOUT FIVE ONTHS AGO IN MAY. IF THE WERE OTHERS AROUN THAT TIME, IT'S VE POSSIBLE THAT COUNICATIONS ARE PICKED UP AND MONITORED U.S. AUTHORITIECOVER THAT TRAFC PRETTY INTENSIVELY. IT WAS KNOWFOR INSTANCE THAT THE FBI HAS ACKNOWLEDGED AT EARLIER I TOOK A LOOK AT HASAN, BUT HAS GEN -- BUT GIVEN THE VOLUME OF AMERANS WHO VIT WEBSITES ABSENTURTHER INFORMATION, THE JUICE DEPAMENT GUIDELINES ARE FAIRLY STRICT ON WHAT EVIDECE YOU NEED TO OPEN UP AN IESTIGATION AND THAT GIVEN, YOU KNOW, FREE SPEECH ISSUES AND FIST AMENDMT RIGHTS AND IN THE ABSENCE OF HER INFORMATION THEY DID NOT MOVE T A FORMAL INVESTIGATION. AT IS CERTAINLY AN AREA THA PEOPLE ARE LOOKG AT.

>> Gwe SPENCER HSU, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Lehrer: AND NOW, HOTHE FORT HO COMMUNITY IS COPING. EWSHOUR CORRESPONDENT TOM BEARDEN WAS IN TEXAS OV THE WEEKEND AND FILED THIS STO. ♪ HOW EET THE SOUND THAT SAVED A WRETCH LIKE ME♪

>> ON SUNDAY IN CHURCHES L OVER THIS ARE PEOPLE MOURNED THE TRADY AT FT. HOOD. LOCAL MINISTERS INILLEEN THAT SURROUNDSTHE MIN GATE OF FT. HOO ORGANIZED JOINT MEMORIAL SERVI AT THE FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH LAST NHT. THE GOVERNORAS THERE. SO WAS STATE REPRESENTIVE JIMMY DON ACOCK.

>> IN KILLEEN, A DEEP FOCUS ON OUR SOLDIS. OTHER ACTOF VIOLENCE IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT WE DON'T UNDERSTAND. BUT THIS ONE S DIFFERENT. BECAUSE THE MAN WITH THE PISTOL WORE A UNIFORM.

>> MORE THAN FEW OF THE SOLDIERS WHO SPEN TIME AT FT. HOOD CO BACK TO THIS AREA AND RETIRE ON THEIR MILITARY CAREERS ARE OVER. ONE GOT ELECTED MAYORF KILLEEN. PEOPLHERE WERE SHOCKED BY THE SHOOTING. UT THIS TOWN HAS HAD A LOT O EXPERIENCE DEALG WITH TRAGEDY.

>> EVERY WEEK OR SO WE GET RETURNING YOUNG OR OLD SOLDIERS IN WAR. SO WRE COGNIZA OF THAT. WE KNOW WHAT IT LIKE.

>> THE MAYOR SAYS LE EVERYBODY ELSE HE WANTS TO KNOW WHY MAJOR ASAN ATTACKED THE TROOPS HE W SUPPOSED TO CARE FOR.

>> I'M GLAD THAT HE'S ILL ALIVE, ANI'M GLAD -- I THINK TH THIS WOULD GIVE USN OPPORTUNITY TO FIN OUT AETTER CHANCE -- A BETTER CHANCE FINDI OUT WHY THESE THINGS HAPPEN.

>> JUST DOWN THE BLOCK FROMITY HALL, TRE'S A COFFEE SHOP CALLED UNDER THE HOOD. A LOTOF TROUBLED SOLDIERS COM HE AND IT'S ALSO FREQUENTEBY PEACE ACTACTIVISTS. ONE OF THE SHOP'S REGULARS HAS S IDEA ON WHY HETARTED SHOOTING. HE HAD A NODDG EATION WITH JOR HASAN WHO WAS A PSYCHOLOGIST IN THE UT WHERE HE IS BEING TREATED.

>> HE SEEMED LI A NORMAL GUY TO ME. EVEN SOME OF THE PATIENTSHEY TALKED TO TT WERE HIS PATIENTS DIDN'T SEEM AN -- COULDN'T BELIEVE ANYTNG ABOUT IT. HE SEEMED LIKE A NORMAL GUY. >>E THINKS HIS OWN MENTAL HEALTH WAS LELY AFFECTED BY THE STRS OF YEARS OF TREATING DEEPLYROUBLED SOIERS. >>HE'S THERE TO HELP THE SODIERS. WE'RE GIVING HIM SO MUC LLING HIM SO MANY W STORIES. U KNOW, TELLING HIM ALL T BAD THIN WE'VE DONE. WHO GOING TO HELP HIM WHEN HE'S HAVG THE SAME PROBLE THINKING ABOUT A THE THINGS GOING ONIN IRAQ? IF I'M GNG TO TELL YOU, LOOK, I MURDERED THIS PERSO I GOT OWN UP, AND I'M TELLING YOU YOU'RE GOING TO AFGHANISTN, YOU'RE GOING TO AVE SOME MAJOR PROBLEMS TOO

>> CHARL LUTHER HAS BEEN COUNSELING KERN ON HIS EFFO TO LEAVE THE SEICE. HE'S A FORMER ARMYERGEANT WHO SUFFERS FROM ST-TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER. HE SPENDS MO OF HIS FREE TIM CAMPAIGNING ON BETTER HEALTH CARE FOR THSOLDIERS. HEHINKS BECAUSE HE'S MUSLIM, OTHER MUIMS WILL FACE A BACKLASH FROM OTHER NON-MUSLIMS IN THE RANKS.

>> IPOKE TO O WHO SAI HE'S KIND OF TERRIFIED NOW, BECAU WE HAVE SOLDIE WITH PTSD WHO DO T GET HELP ANDOW WE HAVE A MUIM DOCTOR THAT ALLEGEDLY COMMITTED MURDER TOHE SOLDIERS THEMSELS. I CAN ON IMAGINE HOW THEY'LL FEEL ABOUT THE MUSLIMS ON THE STREET.

>> INSIDE THE AMY ITSELF, I HARASSMENT OF MUSLIM COMN?

>> IS. ARMY CHAPLAINS ARE REACNG OUT TO THE O-POST MUSLIM COMMUTY TO ESTABLISH LINES O COMMUNICATIO

>> WE ARE INVING YOU TO PATICIPATE.

>> TYNVITED MEMBS OF THE ISLAMIC ASSOCIATION OF GREATER KILLEEN TOARTICIPATE IN A MERIAL SERVICE FOR TOMORROW ALTHOUGH SOME MEMRS HAVE SAID THEY'RE WORRIED AUT RETALIATION THE CIVILIAN OMMUNITY, IMAN ALI SAYS TT THE MOSQUE HAS RECEIVED ONL ONE THATENING PHONE CALL. HE REATEDLY ASKED REPORTERS TO NVEY HIS MESSAGEHAT THE NOT CONDONE T ATTACKS. HE SAID HEID NOT WANT TO BE DEPLOYED TO THE DDLE EAST BECAE HIS FAITH DID NOT ALLOW HIM TO FIGHT OTR MUSLIMS. I ASKED THE IMAN ABOUT THAT. IS THERE ANYTHININ ISLAM THAT TELS SOLDIERS THAT THEY SHOUL NOT FIG AGAINST OTHER MUSLIMS?

>> N. THIS IS HIS DY. YOU KNOW THIS IS HIS DUTY AND THIS -- IF HE DOESN'T WANT TO FGHT THE MUSLIMS THEN N'T JOIN THE ARMY.

>> AS THE INVESTIGATION CONTINUES, FT. HOOD'S ARMY APLAINS ARE ALSO MOVING TO COMFORT THE SURVIVORS AND THE LARGER ARMY COMMUNITY. HEAYS BASE CPLAINS ARE IMPLEMENTING MEETINGS CALLED CRITICAL IORMATION STRESS MANAGEMENT SESSIONS.

>> THEY C CRY IN THERE, AND THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WHORE CRYING IN THE. SO THEY FEECOMFORTABLE. DOINTHAT. LETTING THEIR GUARD DOWN. THEY CAN TALK ABOUT THR FEARS. THEY CATALK ABOUT ANY PHYSICAL EFFECTS LIKE I'M NOTLEEPING SINCEHAT HAPPENED, I HAVEN'T EATEN IN TWO DIES, THIN LIKE THAT. THEY CAN JUST KI OF OPEN UP AN IT'S KIND OF THERAPEUTIC.

>> DESPITE THE TRAGEDYHE REALITY OF ARMY LIFE IN009 CONTINUES. EH OF THESE AMERICAN FLAGS IN IRAQ AT THE ENTRCE TO KILLEEN'SAN 'TIS CHURCH -- -- BAPTIST CHURCH REPRESENTONE WHO IS DEPLOY OVERSEAS. ON SUNDAY, A SERVICE DEDICATED TO T FT. HOOD VICMS, THEY ADDED ONE MORE NAME TO THE LIST. BRYCE IS LEANG SOON, AND A AG FOR HIM WAS ADDED TO THE COLLECTION.

>> Jim:

>> Lehrer: THERE'S MORON THE EACTION TO THE SHOOTING FROM OUR PBS LLEAGUES IN TEXAS. KUT-AUSTIN HAS A REPORABOUT ITS MUSLIM COMMUNITY,ND KERA- DALLAS LOOKS AT HOWILITARY FAMIES ARE DEALING WITH SESS. YOU CAN FIND LKS TO THOSE STORIES ON OUR WEB SIT newshour.pbs.org NEXT TONIGHT, RGARET WARNER'S NTERVIEW WITH PRESIDENT KARZAI OF AFGHANISTAN. IT TOOK PLACE YESRDAY AT THE PRESIDENTIAL PALACE IN BUL.

>> Margaret: THANK YOU F HAVING US. YOU SAID IN YOUR ACCTANCE SPEECH ST WEEK THAT YUR GOVEMENT HAD BEEN SERIOUSLY UNDERMINED BY CORRUION. WHAT DO U MEAN BY THAT?

>> IT MEANS THE USUAL CORRUION IN ANY DOMAIN, ESPECIAY IN THE THIRD WORLD COUNTRY, LIKE I AFGHANISTAN. SUCH INVOLVES PCEDURES AND MANAMENT STYLE AND CORRUPTION AND WHAT CAUSES THAT KIND OF RRUPTION.

>> Marret: DOES THAT MEAN YO HAVE TO Y FOR GOVERNMENT SVICES?

>> YE.

>> Margaret: DER THE TABLE?

>> UNDER THEABLE AND IT ALSO ANS CORRUPTION OF A DIFFERENT KIND WHICH IS A L MORE SERIOUS WHH IS NEW TO AFGHANISTAN. THAT IS WITH THERRIVAL OF ALL TH MONEY TO GHANISTAN. THEACK OF TRANSPARENCY I THE -- IN THEWARD OF CONTRTS. THE SERIOUS PART OF ILEMENTING PROJECTS AND AT'S WHAT I HOPE WE CAN CORRECT TOGETHER. THE STIGMA FALLS MAYBE ON AFGHANISTA BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE IT'SHAPPENED.

>> Margaret: NOW, ODINARY AFGHANS TELL US THAT THEYEEL SHAKEN DOWN, THEY GET SHAKEN DOWN BY POLICE PETTY OFFICIALS WHEN EY WANT A LICENSE TO DO ANYTHING. ARE THEY RIGHT?

>> THEY'RE ABSOLULY RIGHT. THIS HAPPENING. AND IS IS BEUSE OF CORRUPT PRACTICES AND ALSO BECAUSE OF THEROCEDURES THAT WE HAVE.

>> Margaret: NOW INTERNATNAL FOREIGN OFFIALS SAID THERE'S CORRUPTN OF THE HIGHEST LEVELS CLUDING IN YOUR INTATE CIRCLE O CABINET NISTERS AND ADVISERS. HAT CONCRETE STEPS WILL YOU BE TAKING TODDRESS THAT AND HOW SOON WOULD WESEE THEM?

>> CORRUPTION IN THE HIGHEST DOMINANT CIRCLES Y MUST MEAN SOMETHING BY THAT. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN DOES I MEAN AWDING CONTRACTS TO RELATIVES? ES IT MEAN COUPTION IN FORTUNATELY TT IS MORE A SGAN. IT DOESN'T COMEHROUGH IN THE DETAILS. WHERE WE HAVE RECEIVED THAT, WE HAVE FOUND FACTS ON CORRUPT PRACTICES BY SENI -- THEY HAVE GONE TO PRISON.

>> Margaret: DO YOU INK THE PEOPLE,HE MINISTERS, GOVERNORS, CLOSE ADVISERS TO YOU THAT YOU KNOW NOW YOU'LL HAVETO LET GO OR ALLOW TO BE PROSECUTED?

>> WE WILL --

>> Margaret:O, I'M ASKING YOU.

>> WE HAVE AND WE WILL.

>> Margat: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE OTHER DEMAN OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE. YOU WANT TO SAY THAT INOUR NEW CAINETS ALL THE MINISTERS ARE AT THE HIGHEST LEL OF COMPETE COMPENCE. DOES THAT AN YOU WILL HAVE TO REPLACE PEOPLE WHO ARE PORTANT POLITICAL ALLIES AND HOW HA WILL THAT BE OR YOU? I HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISIONS THAT WILL BRING ABILITY TO AFGHISTAN AND MORE PROGRESS TO AFGHANISTAN. A ALLOW US T DO BETT AS A COUNTRY, AS A TION. THAT WILL VE US AN EFFICIENT GOVERNMENT. AND EVERYBODY KNOWS THA

>> Margaret: NOW, PRESIDENT OBAMA, GORDON BROWN HAVESPOKEN PUBLICLY AND BLUNTLY INHE LAST FEW DAYS ABOU WHAT THEWANT TO SEE IN YOUR CABINET, ON BOTH CORRUPTION AND COMPENCE. ANTHEY HAVE SUGGESTED THAT WESTERN SUPPORT WI FADE IF YOU DNOT DO THIS. HOW DO YOU REGARD THOSE PROMES?

>> WELL, T WEST IS NOT HERE FOR THE SAKE OF AFGHANISTN. IT IS HERE TO FHT THWAR ON TERRR. THE UNITED STATES AND ITSLLIES CAME TO AFANISTAN AFTER SEPTEMB 11. AFGHANISTANAS TROUBLED BEFORE THAT TOO. SO THEY'RE HERTO FIGHT THE TEORISM. SO THAT'S -- WE SHARE THAT, AND OF COURSE WE NEED TO BUD AFANISTAN AND NEED TOE ABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AND TO STAND ITS OWN FEET AND TO DO GOOD FOR ITS PEOPLE. THAT IS ANFGHAN RESPONSIBILITY TRILATERALLY TO GET TO WRE WE WANT TO BIN TERMS OF A BETTER GOVERNMENT, A BETTER SOCTY. A PLANHAT DELIVERS THE SERVICES TO THE AFGHAN PEOPL

>> Margaret: YOUR FOREGN MINISTER ISSED A STATEMENT SAYING THAT THEYCONSIDERED THE STATEMENTS FROM SOM OF THESE T BE TERFERENCE A LACK OF RESPECT FORAFGHAN SOVEREIGNY. DO YOU SEET THAT WAY? >>ELL, WE MUST ALL BE VERY CAREFUL WHILE WE AREPARTNERS WI ONE ANOTHER WHILE WE WORK TOGETHER, WHILE WERE TRAVELLING THIS JOURNEY TOGETHER. BUT OUR PARTNERSHIP AND OU ADVICE IS A FRIENDLY ONE AND WITH GOOD INTENTIONS AND T ONE THAT CAN BE INTERPRETED Y OTHER WAY.

>> Margaret: AND DID YOU EL THAT PRESIDE OBAMA AND GORDON BROWN AND KAEIDE CROSSED THE LINE?

>> WELL, I'VE HEARD SO MUCH OF THAT. ITDOESN'TOTHER ME. > Margaret: SO WAS THE FOREI MINISTRY SPEAKG JUST FOR ITSE?

>> THE FOREI MINISTRY WAS SAKING ON THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT.

>> Margaret: SO YOU D SEE IT AS SHOWI A LITTLE BIT OF RESPECT FOR AGHAN SOVEREIGNTY?

>> WE -WE -- WE LIKE OUR PARTNERS TO HAVE A LOT OF RESPECTOR AFGHAN SOVEREIGNTY. AFGHANISTAN IS EXTREMEL STRNG ON THAT

>> Mgaret: THE UNITED STAT DID RELUCTANTLY WITHDR TWO THIRDS OF THE FOREIGN STF, AT LEAST TEMPORARIL FOR SAFETYS SAKE. WHAT IMPACT IS THAT KELY TO HAVE?

>> NO IMPACT. NO IMPACT.

>> Margaret: SO YOUON'T CARE IF EY RETURN?

>> THEY MAY NOT RETURN, I DOT THINK AFGHANISTANILL NOTICE IT. WE'LL REACH THEM WREVER THEY R.

>> Margaret: ONE OYOUR ADVISERS ID TO ME THAT HE THOUGHT UNFORTUNATELY THAT CERTAIN CLIMATOF DISTRUST NOW EXISTED TWEEFRN -- BETWEEN YOUR GOVERNMENT ANDHE OBAMA ADMINIRATION. DOES IT? AND IF SO, WHERE DOES THIS COME FR?

>> NO, I WLDN'T DERIBE IT AS A DISTRUST. IT A QUESTION OF BETTER HANDLING OF THINGS ON BOTH SIDES. GUESS W HAVE TO HANDLE THE AMICANS BETTER AND THE AMERICANS HE TO HANDLE US BETTE

>> Margaret: PRESIDENT OBA IS OF COURSEPONDERING A DECISION ABOUT WHETHERO SEND MRE TROOPS. DO YOU WANT 20,0 TO 40,000 MOREMERICANOLDIERS ON AFAN SOIL?

>> THE OBJECTIVE IS TO PROVIDE PROTECTION FOR THE AFGHAN PEOP AS THE GENAL McCHRYSTAL HAS EMPHASIZED IN HIS RORT TO THE AMERICAN PRESI AND IF THAT LEADS TO PROVIDING MORE TRAINI FOR E AFGHAN ARMY AND POLICE AND GIVING MORE PROTECTION TO THE AFGHANCOUNTRYSIDE, TOHE POPULATION, Y NOT? WE WILL BACK IT.

>> Margaret: WHEN GENEL McCHRYSTAL ASSUMED COMMD ONE THE DIRECTIVESE SET OUT WAS TO SHARPLY REDUCE THE NUMBERF AIR ATTACKS FROM THE AIR WHEN CIVILIANS WOD BE INVOLVED.

>> VERY INVOLVED.

>> Margar: HAVE YOU SEEN A REDUCTION THIS THOSE CVILIAN CASUALTIES?

>> I HAVE SEN A REDUCTION, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEEORE REDUCTI. I WOULD LE THE AIR RAIDS TO AWAY. THEY ARE OF NO HELP TO ABODY.

>> Margare DYOU HAVE ANY OUBTS OF AFGHAN'SOVEREIGNTY?

>> THEY WERE NOT ABANDONED,UT LEFT TO THE MERCY OF THE NEIGHBORS IN A VERY CRUEL Y. WE KEEP HEARINGHIS FROM T UNITED STATES, BUT WE ARE LIKE ONCE BITTEN, TWICE SHY. YOU HAVE TO WATCH AND CAREFUL WHILE WERUST.

>> Margare FINALLY, I THINK YOU HAVE SAI THIS WOULD BE YOUR LAST TERM. WHAT KIND OF AFGHANISN WOULD YOU LIKEO LEAVE?

>> PEACE FOR AFGHANIAN. A UNITED AFGHANISTAN. AN AFANISTAN WITH THE RULE OF LAW AND AN AHANISTAN THAT DEENDS ITSELF. AN AFGHANISTAN THAT'S WELOFF. AND EDUCATED,ED A -- AND GOOD WITH THEIR LABORS D GOOD FRIENDS WITH AMERICA

>> Margaret: AT'S A TALL ORD.

>> A DESIRAE ONE.

>> Margar: MR. PRESIDENT, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> GOOD TO TALK TO YOU. >>Lehrer: THE FULL TRANSCRIPT OF THE RZAI INTERVIEW IS ON OUR WEB SITE, newshoupbs.org. NOW, LIFE SENTENCES WITHT PAROLE FOR JUVENILES CVICTED OF NONLETHAL CRIMES. THAISSUE WAS BEFORE THE U.S. SUPREME CRT TODAY AS THE JUSTICES TOOK UP TWO CASESROM FLORIDA. MARCIA COYLE OF THENATIONAL LAW JOURNAL" WAS THE, AND IS NOW HERE GOOD TO S YOU AGAIN.

>> NE TO SEE U AGAIN.

>> Jim: TWO CASES, WHAT ARE THEY?

>> THE FIRST CASE IS OF ONE WHO WAS 17 AND HE WAS SENTENCED TO LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE FOA SERIES OF ARMEROBBERIES. THE SOND CASE WASINVOLVING E SULLIVAN WHO WAS 13 WH HE WAS CONVICTED OF ROBBING A HOME AND THEN RETURNED WITH AN ACCOMPLICE TO RAPA 70-YEAR-OLD WAN.

>> Jim: NOW TY BOTH HAPPENED IN FLORIDA.

>> ONE IS IN ACKSONVILLE.

>> Jim: THEY'RE NOW LIND EVEN THOUGH THERE ARSEPARATE ISSUES HERE, T THEY WERE ARGUED TOGETHER HERE.

>> THEY ARE, CAUSE THEY RAISE THE SAME ISSUE. THEY'RE ASKING THE COU IF THIS SENNCE VIOLATES THEIGHTH AMENDME OF THE CONSTITUTION AND THAT BANS CRUEL AND UNUSUA PUNISHMENTS.

>> Jim: AND THAT QUESTION RELATES WHETHERHE JUVENILE WAS YEARS OLD OR OLD, RIGHT? ABSOLUTELY.

>> Jim: N DID THE ARGUMENTSO TOY IN THE COURT?

>> WELL, THE LAWYERS FORTHE JUVENIS HAVE TO ADDRES WHETHER THE SENNCE IS CRUEL ANUNUSUAL. D THEY TOLD THE JUSTICES THAT ONE, IT ISRUEL BECAUSE IT STRIPS THE JUVENILE OFANY HOPE OF EVER GETTING OU OF JAIL. IT BASICALL TELLS T JUVENILE, YOU WILL NEVERCHANGE, NEVER BE ABLE TO TAKE YOUR PCE IN SOCIETY AGN. YOU WI DIE IN YOUR CELL. THEY ALSO SAID IT WAS UNUAL BECAUSE EV THOUGH MAJORITY OF STES ALLOW THE IMPOSITION OF THIS SENTENCE, IT'S RALY IMPOSED. Jim: NOW, WHO -- WHO MADE E ARGUMENTS, ANWHAT WAS THE KIND OF THE GUTS OF THE ARGUMENT THEMADE ON TH SIDE?

>> WHO MADE THE --

>> Jim:YEAH, WH REPRESENTED WHO YEAH.

>> BRIAN STEPHENSONEPRESENTED THE 13-YEAOLD, JOE SULLIVAN, AND THEACKSONVILLETTORNEY NAED BRIAN GOWDYHE REPRESEED THE 17-YEAR-OLD TERRENCE GRAHAM. Jim: THE STATE OF FLORIDAWAS ON THE OTHE SIDE?

>> THE STATE OF FLORIDA WA REPRESENTED BTHE STATE SOLITOR GENERA MR. MAKA HE SAID IT WOULD UNDEINE FLORIDA LAW IF THEY BAN IT. HE SAID FLORIDA HAD ENACTE TOUGH PUNISHMT FOR JUVENILES IN RESPONSE TO A SERIOUS JUVENILE CRIME ANHE ALSO ARGUED AT THERE REALLY WAS NO TREND OR SOCIAL CONSENSUS THAT THIS NISHMENT SHOULDN'T APPLY. BECAUSE MOST STATES HAVE ABANDONED ABOLISHED PAROL FOR ALL OFFENDERS.

>> Jim: HOW DI THE JUSTICES HANDLE IT? >THE JUSTICES SEEMED TO HAVE TROUB WITH DRAWING LINE RE. SHOULD IT B 18, SHOULD IT BE , WELL, WHAT ABOUT 14 OR 15R 16? HICH IS SETHING THAT THEY SAY FORE WHEN THEY CNSIDERED WHETHER THEY SHOULD ABOLI THE DEATH PENAY FOR JUVENILES. JUSTIC SOTOMOR, FOR EXALE --

>> Jim: WCH THEY IN FACT DID DO.

>> YES,N 2005, AND T ANALYSIS IN T CASE ISEAVILY RELIED UPON BY THE LAWYERS FOR THE JUVENILESECAUSE IN THAT SE, JUSTICE KENNEDY WHO OTE THE OPINIONSAID, YOU KNOW, JUVENILES ARE DIFFEREN THEY ARE IMMATURE. THEY'RE NOT AS CULPABILITY A ADULTS. THAT WHAT THESE LAWYERS ARE ARGUING HERE. THEY SAY E SENTENCE ISLMOST AN TO A DEATH SENTENCE.

>> Jim: BECAUSE YOU'REOING TO DIE

>> GOING TO DIE JAIL. YES. JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR SAID WHAT KES THIS MOREULPABLE AFTER THE 18th BIRTHDAY? JUSTICE KEEDY SAID WHY SHOULD A JUVENI HAVE A CONSTITUONAL RIGHT THAVE HOPE AND NOT AN ADULT? STICE ALITO SAID YOU'RE ASKING US FOR A PERE RULE, CATEGORY RULE REGARDLESSF HOW HORRIBLE THE CRIME MIGHT BE,EGARDLESS OF WHHER THE JUVENILE SHOWS ANY REMORSE. AND THE LAWYERS CAME BACAGAIN TO THE CT THAT, YOU KNOW, JUVENIL ARE IMMATURE, THEY'RE NOT AS CULPABLES ADULTS. THERE ARE SOCIASCIENCE STUDI THAT SAYS THAT 18 IS A GOOD NE-DRAWING AGE.

>> Jim: SO THISSUE FOR THE OER SIDE IS REHABILITATION, RIGHT? IF YOU T SOMEBODY IN THERE FOREVER AND THEY'RE SAYG THERE'S NO SUCH THING OF REHABILITATION, FOR SOME CRES.

>> THAT'S RIGHT. JUSTICE SCALIA SAID THERE'S ANOTHER PURPE TO THIS AND THAT IS PUNISHMENT.

>> Jim: IS THE -- THE CLASSIC DIVISION,OW DOES IT FIT HERE?

>> IT'S A HARD ONE TO CL. I THINK THAT ALL OF THE JUSTICES ARE HAVING DIFFICUL IN DRAWING A LI. CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS EVEN SUGGESTED ANOTR WAY OF RELVING THIS. SAID WHAT IF WE SAID TO JUDGESHE EIGHTH AMENDMENT RUIRES YOU TO CONSIDER YOUT AT SENTENCING, T THEN YOU HAVE DO WHAT TY CALL A PROPTIONTY REVIEW, DOES THE PUNISHMENT FIT THE IME AND THE SENTENCE? NE OF THE LAWYERS LIKED THAT SOLUTION. >>Jim: WHY NOT?

>> THE FLORIDA LAWYER SAI WELL, JUDGES N HAVE DISCRETION CONSIDER AGE. THE JUVENILE LAWY SAID YOU CAN'T TELL ATHE POINT OF SENTENCING WHETHER JUNILE HAS ECAPACITY TO GROW, TO ANGE. YOU NEEDOAKE THAT ASSESSMENT LATER IN THE PROCESS. GIVE THEM A TERM YEARS AND TH COME BACK AT SOME PNT AND SEE IFHEY'VE ANGED. Jim: AND A WORD HERE, THIS AFFECTS MOSTLY FRIDA, DOES IT NO THAT'S ABO THE MAIN STA --

>> THEY H THE BULK OF JUVENILE OFFENDERS UNDER THAT PARCULAR SENTENCE. Jim: HOW MANY JUVENILES ARE NOW UNDER SUCH A SENTENCE AROUND THE COTRY? >>HERE ARE 111 AROUND THE COUNTRY UND THE AGEF . WHO WERE -- WHO WERE CVICTED OF CRIMES WHEN THEYERE AGE UER 18. THERE ARE ABOUT 77 O WERE UNDER THE AGE O 14 AND THE BU OF THOSE ARE IN ORIDA. IN FACT, FLODA, THERE ARE ONLY TWO WHO WEREONVICTED AT 13 AND BOTH OF THEM ARE IN FLORIDA.

>> Jim: ALL RIGHT. MARCIA, THANK YOU VERYUCH.

>> MY PLEURE, JIM.

>> Lehrer: FINALLY TONIGHT,0 YEARS AFTER THFALL OF THE BERL WALL. JEFFREY BRN HAS OUR STORY. THE BRANDENBURG GATES THA MARKS A ONCE VIDED CITY NOW HAVE THE REVELLERS UNDETHE SKIES. A THOUSD FALLEN DOMINOS SET UP ALONG THE FOER PATHWAY TOPPD TE GROUND. A MENT THAT LED TO THE UNIFICATION OF GERMANY AND E END OF THE COLD WAR. ANGELAMERKEL--

>> R ME, IT WAS AN EPIC TURN OF AN ERA, WE KNOW AT TODAY. THE GERMANY, EUROP AND INDD THE WLD WHICH WAS DIVIDEDNTO TW BLOCS WERE BROUGHT TOGETHE

>> SECRETARY OF ATE HILLARY CLINN JOINED MERKEL AND OTHERS TO HERALD THE 20 ANNIVERSARY. WE KNOW THAT MILLIONS OF HEARTS, OF MINDS AND HANS WERE BEHIND THE WHO LITERALLY TORE DOWN THE WALL.

>> GERMAN CITIZENS FLOCKED TO RLIN, ONCE AAIN THE UNIFIED CAPITAL TO CELRATE AND REMEMBER.

>> THE FALL OF THE WALL AS WELL AS THE ANNIVERSARYODAY IS ONE OF E GREATEST THINGS IN MY LIFE.

>> FOR ME, IT IS SO VING THAT THE WL CAME DOWN 20 YEARS AGO. I'M FRO WEST BERLIN. AND IT'S STILL AMAZING TO ME THAT I CAN TRAVEL AROUNDOW.

>> THE BARER WAS FIRST NSTRUCTED INUGUST OF 1961. THE TIME, TH "NEWSHOUR" ROBERT MacNE WAS IN BERLIN.

>> THE PHONRANG AT 4:00 IN T MORNING AN SOMEBODY FROM NEW YORK ON THE DESK SAID WHAT'S THIS ABOUTLOSING THE BORDER AND THEY'RE CLOSING THE BRANDENBURG GATE? I SAID I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT AND I'LLIND OUT. THERE WE MAYBE 2 REPORTERS AND AEW WEST BERLINERS, AND THE FIRST SIGN OF THE LL WAS GIANT MENT FWER POTS BEING LIFTED INTO POSITION ACSS THE ENTRYWAYS OF THE BRAENBURG GATE. THEN ON EITR SIDE, BARBED WIRE WAS BEINSTRUNG OUT THISAY AND THAT W.

>> FOR 28 YEARTHE WALL DREW A JAGGED LINE THROUGH THEART OF BERLIN AND STOOD ASRUDE SYMBOL OF THE DIVISION OF GEANY AND THE DIVION OF EUROPE. BETWEENHE SOVIET-DOMINATED EAST AND THE DEMOCRIES OF THE WEST. AND THE WAS THE HUMAN AGEDIES AS FRIENDS AND FAMILIES WERE SPLIT APART. OVER THE YEARS, THOANDS OF EASTERNERS ATTEMPTED TO ESCAPE TO THE WEST. MANY DIDN'T MAKE IT. MONICA KEEBLER'S BROTHER-INAW WAS KILLE IN 1975, ONE OF THE MANY WHO DIED TRYINGO CROSS.

>> THEY COULD HA ARRESTED HIM AND IT WOULD HAVE BEENGOOD. I STILL DON'T UNDERSND. MANY OTH PEOPLE TOO. HE WAS SH. WHY?

>> IN 1989 AMID ENMOUS TUMULT, THOUSANDS OF EAST GERMANS HAD BEGUN LEAVING THROUGH THE NEWLY OPENED BORDERS BY A CZECHOSLOVAKIA AND HUNGARY. IN BERLIN ON NOVEMBER 9, SEMINGL SEENGL SEEMILY INON LOUSE NEWS CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEDTHAT TH COULD CROSS WITUT RESICTIONS EFFECTIV IMMEDIATY. TOM BROKAW WAS INHE ROOM.

>> OPLE WERE ELECTRIFIED WITH WHAT THEY WERE HEANG. REMEMBER HE CAMERAMAN JOE WAS THERE AND HE JUMPED AND TURNED ON E CAMERA. HE LIVED ALLIS LIFE IN GERMA DS HE WIDE JOE -- AND HE W WE EYED AS HE LOOKED AT ME. AND WE KNEW THAT SOMETHI MOMENTOUS WASNFOLDING HERE.

>> WITHIN HOURS, STUNNED EASTERNERS OODED THE WALL'S CHECK POINTS,PASSING THE UNDARY THAT FOR DECADES HAD BEEN IMPENETRABLE. THAT FIRST NHT, TENS OF THOANDS MDE THE WESTWARD AND THE WORLD WAS STUNNED. HISTORIAN BCHLOSS. >>GORBACHEV SAID I'M FOR THE FRANK SINATRA DOCTRINE, EVERY 8ebER CAN DO IT HIS WAY. BUT I D'T THINK ANYONETHOUGHT THAT WOULD LE TO THE FALL OF THE BERLIN WALL IN 1989.

>> ONE OF FIRST TO ME HER WAY ACROSSAS ANGELA MERKEL. TODAY, SHE RECALLED THAT JOY WHILE REMEMBENG THE PAIN OF VISION.

>> IS SIMPLE TO TRY TO UNITE A COUNTRY OGETHER, BUT LO CHANCES OF LIFE AND SORROW, TOACCEPT ALL OF THAT IN RETROSPECT THAT IS EXTRELY DIFFICULT.

>> IN THE YEARS FOLLING 1989, THE INITIAL JUBILATION FED IN THE FACE OF ECONOMIC STRUGGS. AS THE FORM WEST GERMANY CNTED $1.9 TRILLION INTO THE FORMER EAST TO BNG ITS ECONOMY P TO SPEED. BUT BUSINESS IN THEAST LIKE THS ONCE ICON FACTORY STILL ND THEMSELVES STRUGGLING.

>> MANY ARE ILL UNEMPLOYED. I STILL KEEP IN CONTACT WITH A FEW. AN YES, MANY D'T HAVE JOBS NOW.

>> ISPOKE THISFTERNOON TO GERMAN JOURNALIST NA ENGOLA ABOUT THE PAINS.

>> IT WAS THE EAST GERMANS WHO HAD TO HANDLEMOST OF THE ANGES. SO FOR MILLION EAST GMANS LI BECAME TOTALLY DIFFEREN. THEY HAD TO HANGE. THEY HATO ADAPT. EVERYTNG WAS NW FOR THEM. IF YOU WANT TO T IT BLUNTLY, T WEST GERMANS WE PAID FOR IT B WEIDN'T REAL HAVE T SUFFERHAT MUCH.

>> STILBY ANY ACCOUNT TODAY MARKED A MONUMENTAL ANNIRSARY.

>> THIS IS THEOMENT THAT THE COLD WAR REALLY ENDED BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE RHORIC OF PRESINTS AND OTHERS IN THE FREE WORLD DURING THAT PEOD TH ALWAYS SAID THE CENTAL SUE THAT DIVIDESAST AND WEST IS TH DIVISION IN EUROPE. ONCE YOU HAVTHAT CHANGED, THAT WOULD HAVE LED TO THE ENDF THE COLD WAR. GEORGE BUSH 41 SAII WANT TO SEEUROPE FULL AND FREE.

>> THOUGH SOME EUROPEAN LEADERS EXPRESSED DOUBTS AT T I'M ABOUT THE OSPECT OF THE REUNIFD GERMANY, THE COUNTRY BECAME ONE NATION LESSHAN A EAR AFTER THE WALL CAME DOWN. FULL MEMBERSHIP INATO AND OTHER WTERN INSTITUTIONS. AND WITHITWO YEARS THE SOVIET UNION CEASED TO EXIST. FORMALLY ENDNG THE COLD WAR.

>> THERE'S ME ABOUT THE BERLIN WALL ON OUR WEBSITE.

>> Lehrer: THERE'S MORE AUT E BERLIN WALL ON OUR WEB SIT newsho.pbs.org. YOU CAN LISTEN O REFLECTIONS ON TODAY'S ANNIVERSARY, ANHEAR AN ART BEAT CONVERSATIONBOUT NOALGIA FOR EAST GERMAN DESIGN. AGAIN, THETHER MAJOR DEVELOENTS OF THE DAY. AND PRIDENT OBAMA HAS -- ACCESS TO INSURANCE AND HE TOLD ABC NEWS THIS IS A HEALTHCARE BILL, NOT AN ABORTION BILL. THE ALLEGEGUNMAN IN THE F HOOD SHOOTINGS REGAINED THE ABILY TO TALK, BUT AUTHORITIES WON'T SAY IF HE'S BN QUESTIONED. THE ALLEGED GUNMANN THE FORT HOOD SOTINGS REGAINED THE ABILITY TOALK, BUT AUTHORITIES WOULD NOT SAY IF HE'SEEN QUESTIONED. D WALL STREET RALLIED. THE DOWONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE GAINED MORE THAN 200 INTS. WE'LL SEE YOU ONLINE, AND AGAIN HERE TOMORROW EVENING. I'M JILEHRER. THANK YOUAND GOOD NIGHT. MAJOFUNDING FOR THE WSHOUR WITH JIM LRER IS PROVIDED BY:

>> WHAT E WORLD NEEDS NOW IS ENERY. THE ENERGTO GET THE ECONOMY HUMMING AGAIN. E ENERGY TO TACKLE CHAENGES LIKE CLIME CHANGE. WHAT IF THAT ERGY CAME FROM AN ENERGY COMPANY? EVERY DAY, CHEVRON INSTS $62 MILLION IN PEOPLE, IN IDE-- SEEKING, TEACHG, BUILDING. FUELINGROWTH AROUND THE WORLD TO MOVE US ALL AHEAD. IS IS THE POWER OF HUMAN ENERGY. EVRON.

>> 150 YEAROF FINANCIAL STRENGTH AND THE EXPIENCE OF ANESTABLISHED INVESTMENT FIRM HAVE COME TOGETR. WACHOVIA SECUTIES IS NOW WELLS FARGO ADVISORS. THE FINANCIAL ADVISORS NRBY AND NATIONWI. WITH THE ADVICE AND PLAING EXPEISE TO HELP YOU ADDRESS TODAY'S UNIE CHALLENGES, WE'RE WITH YOU. WACVIA SECURITIES IS NOW WELLS FARGO ADVISORS. TOGETHER, WE'LL GOAR. INTEL. SUPPORNG COVERAGE OF INVATION AND THE ECONOMY. AND BY YOTA. AND MONSTO. THE NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATN. SUPPORTING EDATION AND RESEAH ACROSS ALL FIELDS OF SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING. AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPOROF THESE INSTITUONS AND FOUNDATIS. D... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIE BY THE CORPORAON FOR PUBLIC BRDCASTING. AND BCONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERLIKE YOU. THANK YOU. Captioningponsored by MacIL/LEHRER ODUCTIONS Captioned by Media Access Group WGBH access.wg.org