PBS NewsHour; October 6, 2015 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

Captioning sponsored by NEWSHOUR PRODUCTIONS, LLC

>> Woodruff: GOOD EVENING, I'M JUDY WOODRUFF. GWEN IFILL IS ON ASSIGNMENT. ON THE NEWSHOUR TONIGHT: THE DEATH TOLL RISES IN SOUTH CAROLINA, AS NEW FLOODING DANGERS EMERGE. THEN, THE TOP U.S. COMMANDER IN AFGHANISTAN CALLS THE AIRSTRIKE ON A HOSPITAL, A "MISTAKE." PLUS, ANN ROMNEY ON HER NEW MEMOIR ABOUT LIVING WITH M.S., AND A FORECAST ABOUT THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.

>> THIS SENTIMENT IS NOT ONLY OUT THERE. I THINK IT'S REAL, AND I THINK THAT POLITICIANS... THEY'RE TURNING TO PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE NORM TO SAY, YOU GO IN THERE WITH A WRECKING BALL AND JUST SMASH IT ALL TO PIECES.

>> Woodruff: ALL THAT AND MORE ON TONIGHT'S PBS NEWSHOUR.

>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY:

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>> THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU.

>> Woodruff: THE SUN CAME OUT TODAY IN SOUTH CAROLINA AFTER DAYS OF A DELUGE TRIGGERED HISTORIC FLOODING. BUT, THE DEATH TOLL ROSE AGAIN, TO 15. MORE THAN 75 MILES OF INTERSTATE 95 REMAINED CLOSED, AND OFFICIALS WARNED THERE'S MORE FLOODING TO COME. WILLIAM BRANGHAM HAS OUR COVERAGE.

>> Brangham: THE RAIN HAS FINALLY STOPPED, BUT WATERWAYS AROUND COLUMBIA, THE STATE CAPITAL, WERE STILL SWELLING TODAY.

>> THIS RESIDENTIAL SECTION IS POPULATED WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT PONDS AND LARGE LAKES, AND SO UNFORTUNATELY ALL HAVE OVERFILLED THE BANKS. THEY'VE WRECKED THE DAMS, THEY RUINED ALL THE BRIDGES AND AS YOU SEE NOW THIS ONE LAKE BEHIND US HAS ALREADY GONE FROM TOPPING OVER THE TOP OF THIS BRIDGE TO WHERE NOW IT'S EMPTYING OUT.

>> Brangham: TO THE SOUTHEAST, IN THE NEARLY CUT-OFF TOWN OF MANNING, THE WATER WAS CHEST- HIGH IN ASHLEY PERILLO'S HOUSE.

>> THIS IS ALL WE OWN. WHAT WE GOT ON IS ALL WE OWN. OUR KIDS ONLY GOT ONE OUTFIT ON THEIR BODY RIGHT NOW.

>> Brangham: MANNING IS ONE OF THE MANY PLACES GETTING INUNDATED FOR A SECOND TIME, AS RUNOFF FROM HIGHER ELEVATIONS HEADS FOR THE COAST. GOVERNOR NIKKI HALEY WARNED TODAY THAT MEANS EVEN AS PARTS OF THE STATE START DRYING OUT, OTHERS STILL FACE DANGER.

>> THE MIDLANDS, NOW ALL THAT WATER IS GOING TO START MOVING DOWN TO THE LOW COUNTRY. WE ARE WATCHING IT MINUTE BY MINUTE.

>> Brangham: HALEY SAID THE TOWNS OF ORANGEBURG, CONWAY, GEORGETOWN AND JAMESTOWN ARE PRIME CANDIDATES TO FACE THE FLOOD THREAT IN COMING DAYS. MEANWHILE, FOR HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE, HOME FOR NOW IS A SCHOOL GYMNASIUM.

>> I JUST GRABBED MY GRANDKIDS, LEFT EVERYTHING AND CAME ON TO THE SCHOOL. I STARTED PRAYING, THAT'S WHAT I DID, I STARTED PRAYING. I SAID "LORD TAKE CARE OF US", AND HE DID.

>> Brangham: THE RED CROSS HAS 26 SHELTERS OPERATING STATEWIDE, INCLUDING THIS ONE AT A.C. FLORA HIGH SCHOOL IN COLUMBIA WITH COTS FOR ABOUT 200 PEOPLE.

>> THIS IS A SAFE PLACE WHERE THEY CAN COME GET OUT OF THE WEATHER. TEMPERATURES ARE STARTING TO DROP, IT'S NIGHTFALL. THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO GET WARM, GET SOME FOOD, REGROUP, RECOVER AND THINK ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE.

>> Brangham: BACK IN COLUMBIA, THE NEXT STEPS FOR MORE THAN 1,100 NATIONAL GUARDSMEN AND OTHERS, INVOLVE WORKING TO SHORE UP DAMS AND REPAIR BREACHED LEVEES. TODAY, CREWS USED HEAVY MACHINERY TO DELIVER MASSIVE SANDBAGS, IN A BID TO KEEP THE WATER AT BAY. I'M WILLIAM BRANGHAM, FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR.

>> Woodruff: UTILITIES ARE ALSO TRYING TO RESTORE SAFE DRINKING WATER FOR SOME 400,000 CUSTOMERS AROUND COLUMBIA. IN THE DAY'S OTHER NEWS, THE HEAD OF NATO STEPPED UP HIS WAR OF WORDS WITH RUSSIA, FOR VIOLATING TURKEY'S AIR SPACE. RUSSIA MAINTAINS ITS PLANES TWICE STRAYED INTO TURKEY, ACCIDENTALLY, AS THEY WERE ON BOMBING RUNS IN SYRIA. BUT IN BRUSSELS, NATO's CHIEF REJECTED THAT EXPLANATION, AND CHARGED THAT RUSSIA'S ACTIONS ARE "UNACCEPTABLE."

>> THIS IS A SERIOUS VIOLATION OF THE AIRSPACE. AND ACTUALLY THERE WERE TWO VIOLATIONS DURING THE WEEKEND. SO THAT JUST ADDS TO THE FACT THAT THIS DOESN'T LOOK LIKE AN ACCIDENT.

>> Woodruff: MEANWHILE, THE RUSSIANS SAID THEIR LATEST TARGETS WERE TOWNS IN NORTHERN ALEPPO PROVINCE THAT ARE UNDER ISLAMIC STATE CONTROL, AS WELL AS MILITANT BASES IN PALMYRA. TURKEY IS WARNING THAT THREE MILLION MORE REFUGEES COULD FLEE THE FIGHTING IN SYRIA. THE NEW ESTIMATE CAME TODAY AT A MEETING OF EUROPEAN OFFICIALS IN BRUSSELS. E.U. NATIONS, IN TURN, OFFERED TURKEY MORE THAN $1 BILLION IN AID, PLUS OTHER INCENTIVES, IN A BID TO STEM THE FLOW. THE EUROPEAN UNION'S HIGHEST COURT HAS HANDED PRIVACY ADVOCATES A MAJOR VICTORY. TODAY'S DECISION STRUCK DOWN AN AGREEMENT THAT LETS FACEBOOK AND OTHERS TRANSFER CONSUMER INFORMATION TO THE U.S., UNIMPEDED. THE COURT SAID REVELATIONS ABOUT U.S. SURVEILLANCE SHOWS THE INFORMATION IS NOT BEING ADEQUATELY PROTECTED, AND EUROPEAN OFFICIALS ECHOED THE POINT.

>> ( translated ): THE VERDICT OF THE EUROPEAN COURT OF JUSTICE IS A STRONG SIGNAL FOR MORE DATA PROTECTION AND GREATER PROTECTION OF PRIVACY IN A GLOBALLY INTERCONNECTED WORLD. THAT WILL ONLY BE POSSIBLE IF THE DATA OF EUROPEAN USERS WHICH IS SAVED IN THE U.S. IS BETTER PROTECTED IN FUTURE THAN BEFORE.

>> Woodruff: THE RULING COULD MAKE IT FAR MORE DIFFICULT FOR THOUSANDS OF COMPANIES TO DO BUSINESS, IN THE FACE OF CONSUMER COMPLAINTS. A CHICAGO COMPANY COULD FACE A RECORD FINE, NEARLY $2 MILLION, FOR FLYING DRONES IN CHICAGO AND NEW YORK WITHOUT PERMISSION. THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION PROPOSED THE PENALTY TODAY FOR SKYPAN INTERNATIONAL. THE F.A.A. SAYS THE AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHY COMPANY MADE DOZENS OF DRONE FLIGHTS INTO RESTRICTED AIRSPACE OVER NEARLY THREE YEARS. SCIENTISTS FROM CANADA AND JAPAN HAVE WON THIS YEAR'S NOBEL PRIZE FOR PHYSICS, FOR EXPLAINING HOW NEUTRINOS FIT INTO THE UNIVERSE. WORKING SEPARATELY, ARTHUR McDONALD AND TAKAAKI KAJITA PROVED THE SUBATOMIC PARTICLES HAVE MASS. IN TOKYO TODAY, KAJITA SAID THE RESEARCH IS JUST ONE SMALL STEP TOWARD UNDERSTANDING THE COMPLEXITIES OF THE COSMOS.

>> ( translated ): THE UNIVERSE WE LIVE IN IS FILLED WITH THINGS THAT HAVE YET TO BE DISCOVERED. SUCH ENORMOUS QUESTIONS ARE NOT RESOLVED IN RESEARCH THAT IS DONE IN A MATTER OF ONE DAY, OR TWO DAYS, BUT IT TAKES MANY PEOPLE GETTING INVOLVED OVER THE COURSE OF MANY YEARS TO UNRAVEL THE MYSTERY. SO I REALLY HOPE YOUNG PEOPLE WILL PARTICIPATE IN SOLVING THESE MYSTERIES.

>> Woodruff: MOST NEUTRINOS THAT REACH EARTH WERE CREATED BY NUCLEAR REACTIONS INSIDE THE SUN, AND TRILLIONS OF THEM PASS THROUGH THE HUMAN BODY EVERY SECOND. THERE'S WORD THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION DEPORTED FEWER IMMIGRANTS OVER THE PAST YEAR THAN AT ANY TIME SINCE 2006. THE ASSOCIATED PRESS REPORTS 231,000 PEOPLE WERE SENT HOME IN THE 12 MONTHS THAT ENDED IN SEPTEMBER. THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE MEXICANS WHO WERE CAUGHT AT THE BORDER AND QUICKLY RETURNED. THIS WAS A LACKLUSTER DAY ON WALL STREET. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE GAINED 13 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 16,790. THE NASDAQ FELL NEARLY 33 POINTS, AND THE S&P 500 LOST SEVEN. AND, PUMPKIN PIE COULD BE IN SHORT SUPPLY, COME THANKSGIVING. CROP EXPERTS IN ILLINOIS SAY RECORD RAIN IN JUNE WASHED OUT CROPS IN THE STATE THAT GROWS 90% OF U.S. PUMPKINS. THEY SAY THERE SHOULD BE ENOUGH JACK-O-LANTERNS FOR HALLOWEEN, BUT CANNED PUMPKIN IS LIABLE TO RUN LOW BEFORE THANKSGIVING. STILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR: THE TOP U.S. COMMANDER IN AFGHANISTAN COMES UNDER FIRE FOR A MISTAKEN AIRSTRIKE. THE 6,000 INMATES BEING THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS AIMING TO RELEASE FROM PRISON EARLY. ANN ROMNEY ON HER NEW MEMOIR. A CONVERSATION WITH THE DALAI LAMA, AND MUCH MORE.

>> Woodruff: THE TOP U.S. MILITARY COMMANDER IN AFGHANISTAN WENT BEFORE THE SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE TODAY AND RECOMMENDED ALTERING THE PLAN TO WITHDRAW AMERICAN TROOPS IN THAT COUNTRY. HE ALSO SHED MORE LIGHT ON THE DEADLY INCIDENT EARLIER THIS WEEK IN WHICH A CIVILIAN HOSPITAL WAS MISTAKENLY ATTACKED BY U.S. AIRCRAFT.

>> TO BE CLEAR, THE DECISION TO WAS A U.S. DECISION MADE WITHIN THE U.S. CHAIN OF COMMAND. A HOSPITAL WAS MISTAKENLY STRUCK.

>> Woodruff: THAT MISTAKE KILLED AT LEAST 22 PEOPLE FRIDAY IN KUNDUZ. TODAY, GENERAL JOHN CAMPBELL, FACING COMMITTEE CHAIR SENATOR JOHN McCAIN ACKNOWLEDGED IT WAS AN AMERICAN DECISION TO STRIKE.

>> THE AFGHAN FORCES ON THE GROUND REQUESTED AIR SUPPORT FROM OUR FORCES ON THE GROUND, EVEN THOUGH THE AFGHANS REQUEST THAT SUPPORT, IT STILL HAS TO GO THROUGH A RIGOROUS U.S. PROCEDURE TO ENABLE FIRES TO GO ON THE GROUND.

>> BUT THERE WAS NO FORWARD AIR CONTROLLERS-- AMERICAN FORWARD AIR CONTROLLERS ON THE GROUND?

>> SIR, WE HAD A SPECIAL OPERATIONS UNIT THAT WAS IN CLOSE VICINITY THAT WAS TALKING TO THE AIRCRAFT THAT DELIVERED THOSE FIRES.

>> Woodruff: INITIAL ACCOUNTS HAD SAID THE A.C.130 GUNSHIP FIRED IN SUPPORT OF THE AMERICAN TROOPS. THE EVOLVING STORY HAS LED DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS TO DEMAND A FULLY-INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION. NEW HAMPSHIRE DEMOCRAT JEANNE SHAHEEN:

>> DO YOU HAVE ANY REASON TO OBJECT TO HAVING AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION DONE BY THE U.N. OR ANOTHER INDEPENDENT BODY OF WHAT HAPPENED?

>> I HAVE TRUST AND CONFIDENCE IN THE FOLKS THAT WILL DO THE INVESTIGATION FOR NATO, THE FOLKS THAT WILL DO THE INVESTIGATION FOR D.O.D. AND THE AFGHAN PARTNERS. AND SO, YOU KNOW, ALL THE VERY, TOUGH QUESTIONS THAT WE'RE ALL ASKING, THEY WILL GET AFTER THAT.

>> BUT AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR ANSWER THEN, YOU WOULD NOT OBJECT AND COOPERATE WITH AN INDEPENDENT BODY?

>> I WOULD LET MY HIGHER HEADQUARTERS OR SENIOR PERSONNEL MAKE THAT DECISION.

>> Woodruff: LATER, THE WHITE HOUSE ANNOUNCED THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS ALSO INVESTIGATING. THE AIR STRIKES AT KUNDUZ CAME AMID A PITCHED BATTLE TO RETAKE THE CITY-- THE FIRST ONE CAPTURED BY THE TALIBAN SINCE 2001. CAMPBELL SAID GIVEN THE TALIBAN SURGE AND THE ISLAMIC STATE'S ENTRY INTO AFGHANISTAN, HE'S PROPOSED EXTENDING THE U.S. PRESENCE, BEYOND WHAT THE PRESIDENT OUTLINED 16 MONTHS AGO.

>> BY THE END OF 2016, OUR MILITARY WILL DRAW DOWN TO A NORMAL EMBASSY PRESENCE IN KABUL, WITH A SECURITY ASSISTANCE COMPONENT. JUST AS WE'VE DONE IN IRAQ.

>> Woodruff: THAT DEADLINE WAS MENTIONED REPEATEDLY TODAY, RUEFULLY BY SOME:

>> I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP. HE SAID, JUST AS WE HAVE DONE IN IRAQ.

>> IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL MILITARY JUDGMENT, CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND AT THE PRESENT TIME WOULD REQUIRE SOME REVISION OF THE WITHDRAWAL PLAN TO A KABUL-CENTRIC 1,000 PERSONNEL BY THE END OF 2016. IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THE OPTIONS I

>> THE OPTIONS I PROVIDED PROVIDE PROS AND CONS OF DIFFERENT LEVELS OF SUPPORT ABOVE AND BEYOND THE 1,000.

>> BUT I'M NOT ASKING YOU WHAT YOU RECOMMENDED. I'M ASKING YOU FOR YOUR PROFESSIONAL JUDGMENT AS YOU'RE SITTING HERE TODAY THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME REVISION TO THAT PLAN.

>> SIR, AS I-- YES, SIR.

>> Woodruff: THERE IS NO TIMETABLE ON WHEN THAT DECISION WILL BE MADE. WE TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE FUTURE ROLE OF THE U-S IN AFGHANISTAN WITH: RETIRED ARMY LIEUTENANT GENERAL DAVID BARNO. HE SERVED AS A COMMANDER OF U.S. AND COALITION FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN AND NOW TEACHES AT AMERICAN UNIVERSITY. AND SCOTT SMITH IS DIRECTOR OF THE AFGHANISTAN AND CENTRAL ASIA PROGRAM AT THE UNITED STATES INSTITUTE OF PEACE. FOR OVER A DECADE HE WORKED FOR THE UNITED NATIONS WHERE HE FOCUSED ON AFGHANISTAN. WE WELCOME YOU BOTH TO THE PROGRAM. GENERAL BARNO, I'M GOING TO BEGIN WITH YOU. WHAT MORE CAN YOU ADD TO WHAT THE U.S. MILITARY OFFICIALS ARE NOW SAYING WAS A MISTAKE IN THIS STRIKE ON THE HOSPITAL? CAN -- IN KUNDUZ?

>> I THINK WE'VE SEEN THE STORY EVOLVE. THIS IS TOTALLY UNSURPRISING TO ME. THIS INCIDENT HAPPENED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, EARLY SATURDAY MORNING. THIS INVOLVED A U.S. AIRCRAFT AC-130 SPECTER GUNSHIP, WHICH TYPICALLY FLIES SEVERAL THOUSAND FEET IN THE AIR, STRIKING TARGET THAT LATER TURNED OUT TO BE A HOSPITAL IN KUNDUZ. WE HAVE ALSO FOUND OUT NOW THERE WAS A SPECIAL FORCES TEAM, AN AMERICAN SPECIAL FORCES TEAM ON THE GROUND NEARBY THAT WAS TALKING TO THE AIRCRAFT. I THINK ALL OF THIS IS INDICATIVE OF A FOG OF WAR AND A BIG FIGHT FOR KUNDUZ THAT'S BEEN RAGING FOR THE LAST WEEK, AND I'M VERY, VERY UNSURPRISED TO FIND OUT THAT THE SITUATION IS CONTINUING TO EVOLVE. I AM ENCOURAGED TO SEE THERE WILL BE AT LEAST THREE INVESTIGATIONS THAT WE KNOW OF RIGHT NOW TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS. THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL IN AFGHANISTAN. I TRAGICALLY SAW SOME OF THESE INCIDENTS OCCUR WHEN I WAS THE COMMANDER THERE. IT ALWAYS IS TRAGIC. IT'S ALWAYS DISASTROUS TO OUR EFFORTS IN MANY WAYS THERE, AND THE INVESTIGATIONS FIND NEW WAYS TO PREVENT THESE FROM HAPPENING, BUT INEVITABLY IN THESE TYPE OF WARS, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE IN CLOSE CIVILIAN AREAS, WE'LL SEE THESE KIND OF ACCIDENTS OCCUR.

>> Woodruff: SCOTT SMITH, THERE'S A LOT OF OUTRAGE OVER THIS. IS THAT APPROPRIATE GIVEN WHAT THE GENERAL IS EXPLAINING HERE?

>> APPROPRIATE OR NOT, IT'S NOT AN UNEXPECTED EMOTION TO COME OUT OF IT. I THINK WHAT THE MMS PEOPLE ARE SAYING IS THAT --.

>> Woodruff: THE DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS.

>> THE FRENCH ORGANIZATION DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS. THERE WAS REPEATED FIRE FOR OVER AN HOUR AFTER THEY WERE CALLING TO SAY, YOU'RE HITTING A HOSPITAL RIGHT NOW. THE TRUTH IS WE HAVE TO SEE WHAT THE INVESTIGATION COMES OUT WITH, WHAT WITNESSES ON THE GROUND SAY, BUT IT'S UNFORTUNATE AS GENERAL BARNO SAID. IT'S NOT UNCOMMON, BUT IT IS DEFINITELY UNFORTUNATE.

>> Woodruff: GENERAL BARNO, WE NOTICED THAT AFGHANISTAN PRESIDENT GHANI DOES NOT SEEM TO BE AS CRITICAL AS TYPICALLY PRESIDENT KARZAI HAS BEEN IN THE PAST OF THE UNITED STATES. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

>> WELL, THIS IS A BIG CHANGE. I THINK IT'S A WELCOME ONE FOR THE UNITED STATES AND FOR OUR NATO ALLIES. PRESIDENT KARZAI OVER HIS 12-PLUS YEARS IN OFFICE BECAME MORE AND MORE FRUSTRATED WITH THE COALITION MILITARY PRESENCE AND WAS VERY, VERY FORCEFUL IN HIS RESPONSE TO THESE KINDS OF INCIDENTS, AND I THINK PRESIDENT GHANI, WHO REALIZES THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA HERE IN THE UNITED STATES IS ABOUT TO MAKE A CRITICAL DECISION ABOUT KEEPING AMERICAN FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN OR DRAWING THEM DOWN TO ONLY SEVERAL HUNDRED, PRESIDENT GHANI IS A LITTLE BIT MORE CAUTIOUS. HE'S BEEN MORE RESERVED. I THINK HE AND MANY OF HIS SENIOR OFFICIALS HAVE COME OUT TO SAY THIS IS TRAGIC BUT WE UNDERSTAND HOW THIS CAN HAPPEN AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE RESULTS OF THIS INVESTIGATION. HIS RESPONSE HAS BEEN MUTED, AND I THINK THAT'S BEEN APPROPRIATE GIVEN THE INVESTIGATION.

>> Woodruff: SCOTT SMITH, LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT THE TALIBAN ACTUALLY DID IN THERE IN CUN DISUZ. HOW SIGNIFICANT THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO MAKE THEIR FIRST TAKEOVER IN A MAJOR CITY IN, WHAT, 14, 15 YEARS?

>> I THINK IT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT. FIRST OF ALL, IT IS FIRST CITY WHICH HAS FALLEN, AND KUNDUZ WAS THE LAST CITY THAT FELL, THE LAST TALIBAN-OCCUPIED CITY THAT FELL TO AMERICAN TROOPS IN 2001, SO THERE'S A SYMBOLIC DIMENSION TO THIS. SECONDLY, THE FACT THAT FROM WHAT MY SOURCES ON THE GROUND ARE SAYING, THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT TAKEN IT BACK. THEY HAVE TAKEN PART OF IT BACK, BUT THERE'S STILL FIGHTING, AND IT'S NOT JUST BOBBY TRAPS. THERE IS STILL SOME RESISTANCE IN THE STREET-TO-STREET FIGHTING. THIRD, THE TALIBAN HAS OPENED UP FIGHTING IN OTHER PARTS OF THE NORTH. THERE ARE THREE OTHER PROVINCIAL CAPITALS THAT HAVE ALSO BEEN UNDER ATTACK. THIS IS NOT ONLY ABOUT KUNDUZ. IT'S ABOUT THE WIDER AREA WHERE SO FAR THEY HAVEN'T HAD A VERY SIGNIFICANT TOLL.

>> Woodruff: GENERAL, WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF WHERE THINGS STAND THEN IN AFGHANISTAN RIGHT NOW?

>> I REINFORCE THOSE POINTS. THIS IS A VERY DEEP CONCERN, THE FACT THAT THE TALIBAN ARE THIS ACTIVE AND THIS AGGRESSIVE NOW IN NORTHERN AFGHANISTAN, WHICH FOR ALMOST A DECADE HAS BEEN THE MOST QUIET PART OF AFGHANISTAN IN TERMS OF INSURGENT ACTIVITY. WE'VE ALWAYS WORRIED ABOUT THE SOUTHERN PART OF AFGHANISTAN, AROUND KANDAHAR. WE'VE WORRIED ABOUT THE EAST AROUND JALALABAD. THOSE HAVE BEEN HOT BEDS OF ACTIVITY SINCE THE MIDDLE OF THE LAST DECADE. THIS IS A NEW PHENOMENON. THEY'RE DEEPLY ENTRENCHED IN THE NORTH. IT'S CERTAINLY GOING TO INFLUENCE PRESIDENT OBAMA'S DECISION IN MY JUDGMENT.

>> Woodruff: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT, GENERAL BARNO. IF THE SITUATION IS THAT UNSTABLE AND THAT CONCERNING, IS KEEPING ANOTHER 5,000 TROOPS GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF THAT'S WHAT THE PRESIDENT DECIDES TO DO?

>> I THINK IT WILL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. I THINK THE FACT IF YOU WERE TO GO DOWN TO SEVERAL HUNDRED, THE AFGHAN SECURITY FORCES, THE AFGHAN ARMY WOULD LOSE ALL OF ITS CONNECTION TO THINGS LIKE AMERICAN FIREPOWER, AMERICAN LA SKYWESTICS, AMERICAN TRAINERS AND ADVICE. THAT'S CRUCIAL TO KEEP THEM IN THE BATTLE RIGHT NOW AGAINST THE TALIBAN. IF WE TAKE THAT OUT, THEIR ABILITY TO GO TOE TO TOE WITH THE TALIBAN WILL DIMINISH VERY RAPIDLY. THEY'VE BEEN IN THIS FIGHT. THEY'RE NOT RUNNING AWAY FROM TALIBAN. THEY'RE IN THE FIGHT IN ALL THESE CITIES. THAT'S ENCOURAGING, BUT IF WE TAKE AMERICAN TROOPS DOWN TO JUST A FEW AROUND THE EMBASSY IN KABUL, I THINK THAT WILL BE PUT AT DEEP RISK.

>> Woodruff: SO SCOTT SMITH, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE U.S. NEEDS TO REMAIN THERE. AT LEAST THE GENERAL SAYS TO STIFFEN THE SPINE AND PROVIDE OTHER SUPPORT FOR THE AFGHAN FORCES.

>> I AGREE. PART OF IT IS ALL OF THE ELEMENTS THAT GENERAL BARNO MENTIONED, THE FINANCIAL SUPPORT, CONTINUED TRAINING SUPPORT, AIR POUR, WHICH HAS BEEN SOMETHING WHICH THEY HAD LAST YEAR AND HAS BEEN TAKEN AWAY. THERE'S ALSO A BIG PSYCHOLOGICAL DIMENSION TO THIS. AFGHANS FEEL THEY'RE ABOUT TO BE ABANDONED AGAIN BY THE WESTER AS THEY WERE IN 1992. I THINK IF THIS DECISION IS GOING TO BE TAKEN, AND I THINK IT PROBABLY WILL BE TAKEN TO KEEP MORE TROOPS IN THERE LONGER THAN ORIGINALLY ANTICIPATED, I WISH IT HAD BEEN TAKEN EARLIER. BECAUSE THEN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SEEN AS PART OF A CONTRIBUTION TO OUR STRATEGIC PARTNER WITH THE AFGHANIS. NOW IT LOOK LIKE IT'S IN REACTION TO THE LOSS OF KUNDUZ AND MORE OF A PANICKED REACTION EVEN THOUGH THIS DISCUSSION HAS BEEN UNDER WAY FOR AT LEAST A YEAR.

>> Woodruff: SO MANY QUESTIONS RAISED ABOUT THIS. FOR NOW, THOUGH, WE WANT TO THANK BOTH OF YOU. GENERAL DAVID BARNO, RETIRED GENERAL, THANK YOU. AND SCOTT SMITH, WE THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> Woodruff: IN THE LARGEST EVER ONE-TIME RELEASE OF FEDERAL PRISONERS, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ANNOUNCED TODAY A PLAN TO SET FREE SOME 6,000 INMATES. JEFFREY BROWN LOOKS AT THAT, PART OF OUR ONGOING SERIES, "BROKEN JUSTICE," ON EFFORTS TO ADDRESS MASS INCARCERATION IN THE U.S.

>> Brown: THE MOVE IS AIMED AT NON-VIOLENT DRUG OFFENDERS, AND IT'S PART OF A BROADER PUSH ON A NUMBER OF FRONTS TO PROVIDE RELIEF TO INDIVIDUALS HIT WITH HARSH SENTENCES, AND TO REDUCE OVERCROWDED PRISONS. THE FIRST GROUP OF INMATES FROM AROUND THE NATION WILL BE RELEASED BETWEEN OCTOBER 30 AND NOVEMBER 1. MORE WILL FOLLOW IN THE COMING YEAR. JOINING US NOW IS MAURICE CHAMMAH OF THE MARSHALL PROJECT, A NON-PROFIT NEWS SITE FOCUSED ON CRIMINAL JUSTICE ISSUES. WELCOME TO YOU. SO FIRST TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHO THESE 6,000 PRISONERS ARE. WHY ARE THEY IN PARTICULAR BEING RELEASED?

>> SURE. SO THESE ARE ALL, ACCORDING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, LOW-LEVEL AND NON-VIOLENT DRUG OFFENDERS WHO WENT INTO THE SYSTEM A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO AND THEN A YEAR AGO THE U.S. SENTENCING COMMISSION, WHICH IS AN INDEPENDENT JUDICIAL ORGANIZATION, SET NEW SENTENCING GUIDELINES AND MADE THOSE RETROACTIVE, WHICH MEND THAT PRISONERS WHO ARE SERVING TIME FOR DRUG CRIMES IN THE FEDERAL SYSTEM COULD APPLY FOR NEW SENTENCES TO HAVE THEIR SENTENCES REDUCED UNDER THE NEW GUIDELINES. AND IT TOOK ABOUT A YEAR FOR THE D.O.J. TO PREPARE AND THE BUREAU OF PRISONS TO PREPARE TO RELEASE THESE PRISONERS, BUT THEY'RE ALL COMING AT ONE TIME AS SORT OF THE FIRST WAVE OF, THIS AND THEN OVER NEXT YEAR, A LITTLE OVER 8,000 PRISONERS STAND TO ALSO BE RELEASED. IN TOTAL IT'S BEEN ESTIMATED THAT OVER 40,000 WILL BE RELEASED EVENTUALLY.

>> Brown: 40,000 IN TOTAL. BUT INDIVIDUALS, THE PROCESS IS THEY APPLY TO IT AND THEY GET A YEA OR NAY. WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM UPON RELEASE?

>> WELL, AFTER THEY APPLY TO A JUDGE AND THE JUDGE, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH PROBATION OFFICERS AND PROSECUTORS DECIDES THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE A THREAT, THEY'RE SENT TO HALF-WAY HOUSES. SOME OF THEM ARE ON HOME CONFINE. AND EVENTUALLY THEY'LL BE RELEASED BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY.

>> Brown: THIS IS VERY MUCH PART OF A LARGER MOVEMENT TO DEAL WITH MASS INCARCERATION, RIGHT? THIS IS ALSO VERY MUCH CONNECTED WITH CHANGING MANDATORY SENTENCE GUIDELINES?

>> THAT'S CORRECT. ALTHOUGH THIS SORT OF SITS ALONGSIDE THOSE EFFORTS, IT IS KIND OF A MAJOR SYMBOLIC MOMENT. AT THE SAME TIME THAT BOTH THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE ARE CONSIDERING MAJOR CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM BILLS, WHICH WOULD CHANGE MANDATORY MINIMUM SENTENCES, WORK TO GIVE MORE RESOURCES FOR PEOPLE COMING OUT OF FEDERAL PRISONS AND A VARIETY OF OTHER KIND OF REFORM INITIATIVES.

>> Brown: WELL CONGRESS LOOKING AT IT, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH TO, BRING TOGETHER A LOT OF FOLKS THAT OFTEN AREN'T TOGETHER ON VARIOUS ISSUES.

>> WHAT'S SO INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IS THAT IT'S COMING AT A MOMENT WHERE INCREASINGLY OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS CONSERVATIVES KIND OF COMING UP FROM A GROUNDSWELL OF KIND OF MINIMOVE. S IN TEXAS AND UTAH ARE SAYING THAT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AS IT STANDS NOW REPRESENTS A WASTE OF MONEY, A WASTE OF HUMAN POTENTIAL, AND SO YOU DO SEE A LOT OF REPUBLICANS WHOSE PREDECESSORS PERHAPS IN THE '80s AND '90s LIKE THEIR FELLOW DEMOCRATS, SUPPORTED EXTREMISM, TOUGH ON CRIME, LONG SENTENCE, HASH MANDATORY MINIMUMS. YOU'RE SEEING AN INTERESTING BIPARTISAN MOMENT.

>> Brown: YOU HAVE THAT ON THE ONE HAND. ARE THERE ALSO CONCERNS... HOW MUCH CONCERN DO YOU HEAR ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR A SPIKE IN CRIME UPON THE RELEASE OF ALL THESE PRISONERS.

>> I THINK IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THAT CONCERN LOOKS LIKE, WHETHER DIFFERENT VOICES IN THE MEDIA BRING IT UP. CERTAINLY A YEAR AGO WHEN THE SENTENCING COMMISSION MADE THIS DECISION,-TO-ALLOW THESE PRISONERS TO BE RELEASED, SENATOR CHUCK GRASSLEY, WHO HEADS UP THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, EXPRESSED CONCERN THAT MURDERERS AND ROBBERS WOULD BE LET BACK OUT ON TO THE STREETS. HE HASN'T SPOKEN YET ABOUT THIS GROUP OF 6,000, BUT IT STANDS TO REASON THAT THERE IS A CAMP, PARTICULARLY OF SOME OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, THAT PERHAPS NOT EXCLUSIVELY, WHO ARE GOING THE RAISE A CONCERN. AND THERE IS NOT YET REALLY PROOF WHETHER THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO REPRESENT A DANGER, THOUGH IT SHOULD BE KIND OF MENTIONED IN THIS CONTEXT THAT EVERY YEAR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE STATES RELEASE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PRISONERS, AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE THAT THIS GROUP OF 6,000 ARE SORT OF MORE OR LESS DANGEROUS THAN THE LARGER GROUP.

>> Brown: BUT YOU'RE SAYING THIS WILL BE A POTENTIAL TEST CASE FOR RECIDIVISM RATES FOR RELEASED PRISONERS REALLY.

>> ABSOLUTELY, A TEST CASE FOR THAT AND A TEST CASE FOR THE POLITICAL APPETITE FOR REFORM.

>> Brown: AND THIS IS STILL A RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER OF PRISONERS, RIGHT? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A VERY LARGE PROBLEM IN THE COUNTRY.

>> CORRECT. CORRECT. IF YOU SEE, YOU KNOW, OVER INCARCERATION AS A PROBLEM, WHICH MANY INCREASINGLY DO, THIS GROUP OF 6,000 PRISONERS IS KIND OF A DROP IN THE BUCKET. EVEN THE 40,000 PRISONERS WHO STAND TO EVENTUALLY GET OUT FROM THIS SORT OF SMALL POLITICAL MOVEMENT, YOU KNOW, ARE SORT OF AGAIN A VERY SMALL PORTION OF THE 2.2 MILLION PEOPLE WHO ARE IN PRISONS AND JAILS AROUND THE U.S.

>> Brown: MAURICE CHAMMEH OF THE MARSHALL PROJECT, THANKS SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Woodruff: STAY WITH US, COMING UP ON THE NEWSHOUR: ANN ROMNEY OPENS UP ABOUT THE RACE FOR THE WHITE HOUSE. A CONVERSATION WITH THE DALAI LAMA ON HIS MISSION TO FIND PEACE. AND WHAT MAKES "OVER THE RAINDOW" A CLASSIC TUNE. BUT FIRST, DONALD TRUMP SAID TODAY HE IS NOT GETTING OUT OF THE REPUBLICAN RACE FOR PRESIDENT, DESPITE STATING THIS WEEKEND HE WOULD BOW OUT IF HIS NUMBERS DROP. WHILE SOME EXPECTED HIM TO FADE, TRUMP CONTINUES TO POLL IN THE HIGH DOUBLE-DIGITS, FOLLOWED BY CARLY FIORINA AND BEN CARSON-- TWO OTHERS WHO HAVE NEVER HELD ELECTED OFFICE. POLITICAL DIRECTOR LISA DESJARDINS LOOKS AT WHAT IS DRIVING THIS.

>> RIGHT NOW, AND YOU KNOW IT...

>> Reporter: DONALD TRUMP IS BOTH FAMOUS AND FAMOUSLY DIRECT.

>> WE HAVE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT ARE TREATED BETTER BY FAR THAN OUR VETERANS.

>> Reporter: BUT HE HAS BEEN PROPELLED BY WHAT MAY BE THE LEAST-KNOWN, LEAST-UNDERGROUP OF VOTERS IN THE 2016 RACE. THEIR OVERALL FEELINGS ARE CLEAR -- ANGER, FEAR AND DISTRUST. KEITH HARVEY IS A SMALL BUSINESS MAN. YOU SEE HIM HERE DEFENDING DONALD TRUMP TO PROTESTERS. HE'S WORRIED ABOUT VETERANS, AND HE LIKES TRUMP'S DIRECTNESS.

>> THE MAIN REASON THAT I FIND HIM ATTRACTIVE AS FAR AS SOMEONE WHO WOULD REPRESENT ME IS BECAUSE HE SAYS WHAT HE WANTS TO SAY, AND THE OTHER THING IS THAT I DON'T THINK HE CAN BE BOUGHT.

>> Reporter: STAY-AT-HOME MOM OF TWO AMANDA MANCINI IS WORRIED ABOUT HER KIDS' FUTURE.

>> I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT HIS EDUCATION. HE'S IN PUBLIC SCHOOL, BUT ONLY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN ONLY AFFORD FOR ONE CHILD TO GO THE PRIVATE SCHOOL. BUT I SEE THE STUFF THAT HE BRINGS HOME WITH THE COMMON CORE. IT MAKES NO SENSE.

>> Reporter: THESE ARE CONSERVATIVE ISSUES, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY THESE VOTERS ARE AGAINST THE ESTABLISHMENT. INCLUDING THE REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT. SALON AND SPA OWNER ELAINE YOAKAM IS ANGRY AT THE G.O.P. LEADERSHIP.

>> I VOTED FOR REPUBLICANS FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS, AND I'M FEELING LIKE I'VE KIND OF WASTED MY TIME AND MY VOTE. WHEN I HEARD TRUMP SPEAK, I THOUGHT, THIS IS SOMEBODY THAT CAN BE A LEADER AND CHANGE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> Reporter: THIS IS KEY TO TRUMP'S STRENGTH. IN A NATIONAL FOX NEWS POLL OUT LAST WEEK, 26% OF LIKELY REPUBLICAN VOTERS BACKED HIM. EIGHT POINTS AHEAD OF ANYONE ELSE. BUT LOOK AT WHAT ELSE REPUBLICAN VOTERS FELT IN THAT POLL. 60% OF THEM SAID THEIR PARTY HAS BETRAYED THEM.

>> THEY WILL NEVER MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

>> Reporter: ENTER TRUMP'S OUTSIDER APPEAL.

>> THEY'RE CONTROLLED FULLY BY THE LOBBYISTS, BY THE DONORS.

>> Reporter: IT'S AN APPEAL NOT EVERYONE BUYS.

>> HE'S NOT REALLY THE OUTSIDER WE THINK HE IS. HE'S MORE LIKE THE TYPICAL POLITICIAN WHERE HE IS TELLING US WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR, BUT REALITY IS HE WOULD BE VERY DIFFERENT IF HE WER EVER IN OFFICE.

>> Reporter: DAVID McINTOSH HEADS THE CONSERVATIVE ADVOCACY GROUP FOR GROWTH WHICH FOAS FAUX CUSSES ON LOW TAXES AND SMALL GOVERNMENT. THE CLUB HAS ATTACKED CURRENT REPUBLICAN LEADERS LIKE HOUSE SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER, THEY SEE TRUMP AS WORSE. THEY'RE RUNNING THIS $1 MILLION AD CAMPAIGN AGAINST HIM.

>> TRUMP WANTS US TO THINK HE'S MR. TELL IT LIKE IT IS, BUT HE HAS A RECORD, AND IT'S VERY LIBERAL.

>> HE'S BEEN FOR FREQUENT TAX INCREASES. HE'S NOT FOR FREE TRADE. HE SUPPORTED THE SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE. THOSE ARE NOT CONSERVATIVE, FREE MARKET POLICIES.

>> Reporter: TRUMP DENIES THAT HE'S LIBERAL.

>> I WILL BE TOTALLY PLEDGING MY ALLEGIANCE TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THE CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES FOR WHICH IT STANDS.

>> Reporter: DESPITE HIS CRITICS, FOR THE PAST MONTH TRUMP HAS MOSTLY HELD AN EIGHT TO TEN-POINT LEAD NATIONALLY. CAN ANYTHING PUT A DENT IN THAT? THE POLLS SHOW SOME POTENTIAL RED FLAGS ON PERSONALITY AND ABILITY INCH A "USA TODAY" SURVEY, THE TOP FIVE WORDS AMERICANS USED TO DESCRIBE DONALD TRUMP WERE ALL NEGATIVE, INCLUDING IDIOT, ARROGANT AND SELFISH. THE TOP WORD FOR REPUBLICAN VOTERS WAS ARROGANT. BUT COUNTERING THAT, TRUMP MAY ALSO BE RIDING AN HISTORIC WAVE.

>> ONE OF THE REMARKABLE THINGS YOU'RE SEEING IN THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW ARE GENUINELY HIGH LEVELS OF IMMIGRATION AT A LEVEL WE REALLY HAVEN'T SEEN SINCE THE TURN OF THE 20th CENTURY.

>> Reporter: BEVERLY GAGE, YALE UNIVERSITY HISTORY PROFESSOR, SAYS TIMES LIKE THESE, WITH NEARLY 15% OF THE POPULATION BEING FOREIGN-BORN, SPARK MOVEMENTS.

>> YOU ALSO USUALLY SEE ACCOMPANYING THESE KIND OF HEIGHTENED PERIODS OF IMMIGRATION IS A KIND OF BACKLASH POLITICS THAT ARKS THAT IMMIGRANTS SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, THAT THEY'RE TAKING AMERICAN'S JOBS AND DEPENDING ON, YOU KNOW, WHO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AND AT WHAT MOMENT THAT TAKES DIFFERENT SHAPES.

>> Reporter: TRUMP VOTERS, INCLUDING MEXICAN IMMIGRANT ZANDER SANES, SAY THIS IS WHY THEY ARE STICKING WITH TRUMP.

>> I BELIEVE THE MEXICANS TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE UNITED STATES. THE ELITES IN MEXICO ARE A GROUP OF DONALD TRUMPS. THEY DON'T WANT THE POOR IN MEXICO. THEY WANT TO BRING THEM TO AMERICA.

>> WE'RE GOING TO MAKE OUR COUNTRY SO GREAT.

>> Reporter: IT'S A PUSH FOR NEW DIRECTION AND NEW WILL LEADERSHIP, A PUSH ALSO HELPING CARLY FIORINA, WHO IS QUICKLY RISING IN THE POLLS, AND BEN CARSON, WHO IS GETTING WITHIN REACH OF TRUMP NATIONALLY. THE THREE G.O.P. FRONT-RUNNERS, WHO ARE ALSO THE ONLY THREE CANDIDATES WHO HAVE NEVER HELD OFFICE BEFORE.

>> Woodruff: LISA DESJARDINES JOINS ME NOW. LISA, IT IS A PHENOMENON OUT THERE WITH DONALD TRUMP. BUT WHERE IS THE RACE RIGHT NOW WITH TRUMP, WITH CARSON, WITH FIORINA, ALL THREE OUTSIDERS, AS YOU POINT OUT?

>> YOU CAN PICK ANY ONE POLL YOU LIKE, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE TREND, JUDY, OVER THE LAST MONTH, TRUMP HAS BASICALLY PLATEAUED. HE'S STAYED STEADY. HE SKIPPED A LITTLE BIT IN IOWA, BUT OVERALL HE STAYED ABOUT THE SAME. CARSON AND FIORINA ARE ON THE RISE AS A WHOLE, AND FIORINA ESPECIALLY, JUDY. WE'VE REALLY SEEN HER GO FROM THE BACK OF THE PACK, NOT JUST TO UP CLOSE TO THE FRONT, BUT THIRD AND IN SOME POLLS EVEN SECOND IN THE RACE.

>> Woodruff: CAN YOU TELL IF THIS IS BECAUSE OF SOMETHING DONALD TRUMP IS DOING OR IS IT SOMETHING BECAUSE OF CARSON AND FIORINA?

>> WE KNOW THAT TRUMP'S UNFAVORABILITY RAINING IS RELATIVELY HIGH TO THEIRS, THAT CARSON AND FIORINA HAVE HIGHER FAVORABILITY, THEY'RE MORE WELL-LIKED THAN TRUMP. THOSE WHO SUPPORT TRUMP LOVE HIM, BUT THERE IS A LARGE GROUP THAT DOES NOT. A PROBLEM FOR TRUMP GOING DOWN THE ROAD, JUDY, IS THAT 47% OF G.O.P. VOTERS SAY THEY ARE WILLING TO CONSIDER HIM. THAT MEANS MORE THAN HALF WHO SAY THEY'RE NOT EVEN WILLING TO CONSIDER DONALD TRUMP. THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR THE FUTURE. IT'S NOT A PROBLEM THAT CARSON OR FIORINA HAVE.

>> Woodruff: DO WE HAVE ANY WAY OF QUANTIFYING HOW MANY VOTERS ARE PAYING ATTENTION?

>> TO BE HONEST, NO. THESE POLLS ASK PEOPLE, ARE YOU A LIKELY REPUBLICAN VOTER. ARE YOU A LIKELY CAUCUS-GOER. WE'RE NOT ASKING THEM OR NO ONE IS ASKING THEM, HOW MUCH DO YOU PAY ATTENTION, HOW MUCH DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THESE CANDIDATES. TO SOME DEGREE THIS MIGHT BE NAME RECOGNITION AND IT MIGHT BE BUZZ.

>> Woodruff: IT'S A PHENOMENON. PEOPLE ARE WATCHING IT. LISA DESJARDINES, WE THANK YOU.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> Woodruff: NOW ANOTHER ADDITION TO OUR NEWSHOUR BOOKSHELF. SOME HAVE CALLED IT A STORY BOOK LIFE. MARRIED TO HER TEENAGE SWEETHEART, MOTHER OF FIVE CHILDREN, FINANCIALLY SECURE WITH A LOVING, SUPPORTIVE HUSBAND. BUT IN 1997, ANN ROMNEY WAS DIAGNOSED WITH MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS, AN AUTO-IMMUNE DISEASE WHICH CANNOT BE CURED BUT CAN BE TREATED. NOW SHE HAS WRITTEN A MEMOIR, "IN THIS TOGETHER: MY STORY," HER ACCOUNT OF THE JOURNEY SHE HAS TRAVELED THESE LAST 18 YEARS. WELCOME, ANN ROMNEY.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Woodruff: THIS IS A VERY PERSONAL STORY. IT'S, IN FACT, REMARKABLY PERSONAL FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN SO MUCH IN THE PUBLIC EYE.

>> RIGHT.

>> Woodruff: HOW HARD WAS IT TO WRITE?

>> WELL, IT WAS HARD BECAUSE IT WAS... I HAD TO GO BACK TO THOSE VERY DARK DAYS, WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW, I FELT PROUD OF MYSELF HOW DEPRESSED I WAS AND HOW SORRY I FELL FOR MYSELF, BUT I KNEW IT WAS IMPORTANT, AND I WANTED TO SHARE THIS STORY, SO I WANTED TO... I DELIBERATELY MADE IT PERSONAL SO THAT PEOPLE WOULD KNOW THAT I WAS OPENING ANY HEART TO THEM AND I WAS SHARING WITH THEM WHERE I WAS AND WHERE I HAVE COME SINCE THEN.

>> Woodruff: DID YOU GO IN KNOWING YOU WANTED TO BE VERY CANDID?

>> I DID. I WANTED TO BE CANDID. IT WAS VERY DELIBERATE. WHEN I HAD WRITTEN A LOT OF IT, THE PUBLISHER CAME BACK AND SAID, WE WANT MORE. SO I BROUGHT OUT A FEW MORE STORIES THAT I WOULD NOT REALLY HAVE SHARED. IT WAS HARD IN SOME WAYS, BUT THEN ALSO SO HONEST, AND I WANTED TO BE THAT WAY SO THAT PEOPLE CAN HONESTLY KNOW THAT I AM HERE TO TRY TO HELP PEOPLE.

>> Woodruff: IT REALLY IS YOUR JOURNEY FROM THE DIAGNOSIS 18 YEARS AGO THROUGH VARIOUS THERAPIES. YOU SEEM TO BE DOING VERY WELL. WHAT'S BEEN THE HARDEST PART OF THIS?

>> I THINK THE HARDEST PART WAS INITIALLY WHEN I WAS FIRST DIAGNOSED, AND THEN I WAS SO SICK THAT IT STRIPPED ME FROM MY IDENTITY. HOW IT DID THAT WAS THAT I THINK WE IDENTIFY OURSELVES BY LABELS OR THINGS THAT WE ARE ABLE TO DO. I AM THIS. I AM A GOOD COOK. I AM A GOOD MOTHER. I AM A GOOD THIS. I AM A GOOD DOCTOR. I AM A GOOD LAWYER. WHEN YOU CAN'T DO THOSE THINGS ANYMORE, YOU WONDER WHERE YOUR IDENTITY IS. I THINK FOR ME IT WAS GOING TO PLACES WHERE I WAS UNCOMFORTABLE GOING AND BEING STRIPPED DOWN SO THAT I WAS REALLY VULNERABLE.

>> Woodruff: YOU WERE OPEN ABOUT THE TREATMENTS YOU'VE TRIED, EVERYTHING FROM CHEMOTHERAPY, HORSEBACK RIDING THERAPY, REFLEXOLOGY, YOUR FAITH. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE?

>> WELL, I LIKE TO TELL PEOPLE, WHEN THEY GET A DIAGNOSIS LIKE, THIS OF COURSE GO TO THE WESTERN TREATMENT AND ESPECIALLY WITH M.S. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE GET AGGRESSIVE AND EARLY TREATMENT. THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IT WAS WHEN I WAS FIRST DIAGNOSED WHERE THEY SAID WAIT UNTIL YOU'RE MUCH SICKER TO GET TREATMENT. BUT NOW WE KNOW, GET AGGRESSIVE TREATMENT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. BUT AFTER THAT, YOU KNOW, THE SAD THING IS YOU STILL DON'T FEEL WELL. YOU STILL HAVE SYMPTOMS OF FATIGUE AND OBVIOUS THINGS THAT IT'S JUST UNRELENTING AND VERY DEBILITATING, AND I FOUND THAT REFLEXOLOGY WORKED FOR ME. I FOUND THAT RIDING HORSES WORKED FOR ME. FINDING JOY IN YOUR LIFE IS ANOTHER REALLY IMPORTANT COMPONENT, AND LOSING YOURSELF IN DOING SOMETHING ELSE AND NOT ALWAYS DWELLING ON YOUR ILLNESS IS VERY IMPORTANT.

>> Woodruff: THERE'S A LOT IN HERE THAT'S INSPIRATIONAL. I HAVE TO ASK YOU ABOUT POLITICS. YOU SAID AFTER THE CAMPAIGN OF 2012 THAT YOU FELT TERRIBLE FOR WHAT AMERICA HAD LOST. THAT WAS RIGHT AFTER THE ELECTION. HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT HOW THINGS ARE GOING TODAY?

>> WELL, IT'S FRUSTRATING. YOU KNOW, WE CAN SEE THAT IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS AN ECONOMIC RECOVERY. AT THE SAME TIME, THAT RECOVERY HAS LEFT OUT THE MIDDLE CLASS AND MILLIONS OF AMERICANS. AND SO WE STILL HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS. WE LOOK AT INTERNATIONALLY, WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE MIDDLE EAST IS JUST HEART-WRENCHING AND DEVASTATING AND YOU THINK OF THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF SYRIAN REFUGEES AND ALL THE PROBLEMS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THE WORLD, AND IT IS FRUSTRATING FOR ME TO WATCH THIS BECAUSE I FEEL AS THOUGH MITT WOULD HAVE BEEN A VERY GOOD PRESIDENT, AND I SAID, IT'S NOT OUR LOSS BECAUSE OUR LIVES ARE FINE, BUT THE COUNTRY LOST BUT NOT HAVING MITT AS PRESIDENT.

>> Woodruff: YOU DID GIVE SOME THOUGHT, BOTH OF YOU TO, RUNNING THIS TIME, DECIDED...

>> FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS.

>> Woodruff: BUT YOU DECIDED NOT TO. WE NOW HAVE A CONTEST ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE WHERE IT SEEMS PEOPLE WITH NO GOVERNMENT EXPERIENCE ARE MORE FAVORED THAN ANYBODY ELSE. DO YOU THINK THAT'S HEALTHY?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S A REFLECTION OF A SENTIMENT, AND I'M NOT SURE IT'S WHERE WE'LL END UP. THERE ARE A LOT OF UPS AND DOWNS IN A CAMPAIGN, BUT I THINK IT'S A REFLECTION. IF YOU LOOK AT BOTH THE DEMOCRATIC CONTEST AND THE REPUBLICAN CONTEST, THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING WHERE PEOPLE ARE I THINK... I THINK THE VOTERS FEEL DISENFRANCHISED. I THINK THEY FEEL LIKE THINGS GO ON IN WASHINGTON WITHOUT THE BEST INTEREST OF THE AMERICAN... THE PUBLIC BEING PUT FIRST. I THINK THEY'RE RIGHT. I THINK GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN RUN FOR A LONG TIME BY SPECIAL INTERESTS, AND LISTENING TOO THE LOBBYISTS, AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE REALLY FRUSTRATED WITH THAT, SO I THINK THE SENTIMENT IS NOT ONLY OUT THERE. I THINK IT'S REAL, AND I THINK THAT POLITICIANS ARE TURNING TO PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE NORM TO SAY, YOU GO IN THERE WITH A WRECKING BALL, AND JUST SMASH IT ALL TO PIECES. AND I THINK THAT'S THEIR SENTIMENT. I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, THEY WILL COME TO AND COALESCE AROUND A CANDIDATE THAT WILL BE ABLE TO UNIFY AND ALSO RESPOND TO SOME OF THIS SENTIMENT.

>> Woodruff: BUT MAYBE NOT WHERE THEY ARE RIGHT NOW?

>> I DON'T THINK THEY WILL BE WHERE THEY ARE RIGHT NOW. I THINK THEY'LL COME AND TRY TO FIND SOMEONE MAYBE WITH A LITTLE EXPERIENCE.

>> Woodruff: I JUST HAVE TO ASK YOU ONE OTHER QUESTION, AND THIS IS A STORY IN THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" TODAY ABOUT THE DOS OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS. THEY SINGLE OUT DRUGS FOR MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS, AND THEY TALK ABOUT IN THE LAST I THINK DECADE, DRUGS WENT UP AN AVERAGE OF 16% A YEAR EACH YEAR OVER THE LAST DECADE.

>> YEAH. IT'S... WE ALL KNOW THAT THE DRUG COMPANIES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR A LOT OF THE RESEARCH, AND WE KNOW THAT IT IS EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE FOR THEM TO DO THAT AND IT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY FOR THEM TO DO IT, BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT ONCE THEY GET AN EXCLUSIVE USE OF A CERTAIN DRUG, THAT THEY DO SEEM TO TAKE A BIT OF ADVANTAGE OF THAT. SO THERE HAS TO BE A RECOGNITION THAT WE NEED THAT, WE NEED THE DRUG COMPANIES SPENDING THAT MONEY AND DOING THAT RESEARCH, WE ALSO NEED THEM TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR NOT HURTING PEOPLE THAT ARE DESPERATE FOR SOME OF THESE DRUGS.

>> Woodruff: IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE TALKING WITH YOU, ANN ROMNEY. THE BOOK IS "IN THIS TOGETHER: MY STORY." THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Woodruff: AS POPE FRANCIS VISITED THE EAST COAST A FEW WEEKS BACK, ANOTHER WORLD RELIGIOUS FIGURE, THE DALAI LAMA, WAS IN MINNESOTA, WHERE DOCTORS AT THE MAYO CLINIC ADVISED HIM TO CUT SHORT HIS OWN TOUR OF THE U.S. SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT FRED DE SAM LAZARO RECENTLY SAT DOWN WITH THE SPIRITUAL LEADER OF TIBETAN BUDDHISM, AT HIS EXILE HOME IN INDIA. A VERSION OF THIS STORY AIRED ON THE PBS PROGRAM, "RELIGION AND ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY."

>> Reporter: UNTIL DOCTORS RECENTLY TOLD HIM TO SLOW DOWN, THE 80-YEAR-OLD DALAI LAMA HAD KEPT A BREATHLESS PACE. IN JUST A FEW WEEKS LAST SUMMER, HE WAS AT A MUSIC FESTIVAL IN ENGLAND, A PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY IN HOUSTON, AND A SOLD-OUT STADIUM NEAR LOS ANGELES. ♪ RISE UP THERE IS PERHAPS NO WORLD FIGURE TODAY WITH A MORE DIVERSE FACE OF FANS. WHY ARE YOU SO POPULAR GLOBALLY? WHY ARE YOU A ROCK STAR?

>> I DON'T KNOW. I NEVER PAY ATTENTION ABOUT THAT. WHY PEOPLE PRAISE ME? WHY, WHY? ♪ HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAR DALAI LAMA ♪

>> Reporter: AND HE SAID HE'S NOT CONCERNED ABOUT ANOTHER MATTER ON PEOPLE'S MINDS, WHO WILL SUCCEED HIM, OR AS HE'S SAID IN YEARS, WHETHER ANYONE WILL.

>> MANY PEOPLE ARE SHOWING INTEREST ABOUT THIS. FOR ME, NOT MUCH INTEREST.

>> Reporter: THAT'S SIGNIFICANT. LIKE THE FAMILIAR LAUGH HIS ROLE AS DALAI LAMA, THE WORLD'S BEST-KNOWN BUDDHIST LEADER, HAS BEEN CENTRAL TO WHO HE IS. THE REINCARNATION OF DALAI LAMAS GOING BACK SIX CENTURIES, THE LEADER OF A FABLED "ONCE UPON A TIME" COUNTRY HIGH IN THE HIMALAYAS. HE FLED WITH U.S. HELP TO INDIA IN 1959 AFTER A FAILED UPRISING AGAINST TIBET'S ANNEXATION BY MAO TSE TUNG'S REVOLUTIONARY PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA. TODAY IN HIS HOME BASE IN DHARMSHALA, INDIA, HE STILL KEEPS A FULL SCHEDULE. IT BEGINS EARLY EACH MORNING AS A DIVERSE CROWD LINES UP FOR A CHANCE TO MEET HIM. MANY ARE FROM THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TIBETANS WHO FOLLOWED HIM AND SETTLED IN INDIAN, WHERE THE DALAI LAMA SET UP A SECULAR TIBETAN GOVERNMENT IN EXILE AND LATER TOOK ON A MOSTLY CEREMONIAL ROLE.

>> IN 2011, I TOTALLY RETIRED. NOW NO POLITICAL RESPONSIBILITY.

>> Reporter: HE SAYS HE'S NOW FOCUSED ON HIS MORAL RESPONSIBILITY AS AN ADVOCATE FOR WORLD PEACE, ONE THAT'S WON HIM NUMEROUS AWARDS, INCLUDING THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE. A PROLIFIC LECTURER, HE SAYS THAT PEACE MUST START WITH THE INDIVIDUAL, WITH COMPASSION FOR ONE'S FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS. IT'S A MESSAGE THAT HE SAYS ISN'T UNIQUELY BUDDHIST.

>> ALL THE BACK TO BUDDHIST TRAS TO TEACH US COMPASSION, LOVE, FORGIVENESS, TOLERANCE.

>> Reporter: HE WANTS TO SEE ETHICS COMMON TO ALL RELIGIONS TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS, BECAUSE HE SAYS RELIGIOUS LEADERS HAVE TOO OFTEN FOCUSED ON EXCLUDES AND DIVISION, LEADING TO BOTH CONFLICT AND GROWING INEQUALITY, BETWEEN AND WITHIN SOCIETIES.

>> LOOK AT AMERICA, A VERY RICH COUNTRY, BUT ALSO VERY POOR. LIKE AFRICA ALSO, A LOT OF POTENTIAL, BUT I THINK THERE'S THIS MORAL PRINCIPLE. I THINK YOU NEED SOME SORT OF LESSON, EDUCATION ABOUT SOCIALISM. I'M SOCIALIST. FURTHERMORE, AS FAR AS SOCIAL ECONOMY, I'M MARXIST. I'M BUDDHIST MARXIST.

>> Reporter: HE SAYS MATERIALISM AND CONSUMERISM HAVE PREVAILED, EVEN IN PLACES WHERE POLITICAL LEADERS PLEDGE THEMSELVES TO MARXIST OR SOCIALIST IDEALS. THE MOST PROMINENT EXAMPLE IS CHINA, HE SAID, NOW CRYING TO REGAIN ITS MORAL COMPASS. ITS LEADER, XI JINPING RECENTLY ACKNOWLEDGED A ROLE FOR BUDDHISM.

>> Reporter: WHILE THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT AND COMMUNIST PARTY HAVE CALLED FOR MORE TOLERANCE AND RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, THEY HAVE CONDEMNED THE DALAI LAMA AS A SEPARATIST AND A PUPPET OF THE WEST. BUT CHINA'S PROMINENCE IN GLOBAL TRADE AS THE WORLD'S SECOND LARGEST ECONOMY, MANY WESTERN NATIONS HAVE BECOME MORE MUTED IN THEIR SUPPORT OF THE DALAI LAMA. FOR HIS PART, THE EXILED LEADER, WHILE ALLEGING HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES AND THE DESTRUCTION OF TIBETAN CULTURE IN HIS HOMELAND, HAS MODERATED HIS DEMANDS.

>> >> Reporter: BUT HE'S DRAWN A LINE IN THE SAND ON ONE ISSUE, CHINA'S INSISTENCE THAT THE GOVERNMENT APPROVE THE NEXT DALAI LAMA. THE ANOINTING CAN TAKE YEARS AFTER THE DALAI LAMA'S DEATH, IN WHICH MONKS LOOK FOR SUPERNATURAL SIGNS TO LEAD THEM TO THE YOUNG BOY WHO IS THE REINCARNATION. THE CURRENT DALAI LAMA, BORN OF SIMPLE PEASANT STOCK, WAS IDENTIFIED AT AGE THREE AND INSTALLED AT 15 AFTER YEARS OF RIGOROUS STUDY.

>> AS FAR AS 1969, I PUBLICLY STATED THIS INSTITUTE, WHETHER IT SHOULD CONTINUE OR NOT, ENTIRELY UP TO TIBETAN PEOPLE.

>> Reporter: IN THE MODERN AGE, WHEN DEMOCRATIC GOVERNANCE AND BACK TO YOUTIST SCHOLARSHIP ARE MUCH MORE ACCESSIBLE, HE SAYS THERE'S NOT SURE THERE'S A NEED FOR A NEW DALAI LAMA. WHEN HE TURNS 90, HE SAYS HE'LL CONFRONT THE QUESTION WITH RELIGIOUS ELDERS AND THE TIBETAN PEELED BEFORE DECIDING WHETHER TO BE REINCARNATED LIKE HIS PREDECESSORS OR THE END THE TRADITION. FOR NOW IT'S A DECISION THAT THIS VERY PUBLIC FIGURE SAYS IS VERY PRIVATE.

>> THESE INNER VALUES AND WORLD PEACE AND HAPPY WORLD, THESE ARE OUR COMMON RESPONSIBILITIES. EVERYONE ELSE'S LIFE IS INDIVIDUAL BUSINESS. OUR CONCEPT OF GOD, OUR CONCEPT OF NIRVANA, OUR CONCEPT OF THE NEXT LIFE IS PRIVATE BUSINESS.

>> Reporter: FOR THE PBS "NEWSHOUR," THIS IS FRED DE SAM LAZARO AT DHARMSHALA, INDIA.

>> Woodruff: FINALLY TONIGHT: "OVER THE RAINBOW," THE CLASSIC BALLAD WRITTEN BY HAROLD ARLEN AND E.Y. HARBURG, AND MADE FAMOUS BY JUDY GARLAND IN "THE WIZARD OF OZ." TOMORROW MARKS THE ANNIVERSARY OF ITS FIRST RECORDING BACK IN 1938, AND JEFFREY BROWN JOINED COMPOSER AND MUSICIAN ROB KAPILOW RECENTLY AT THE SIGNATURE THEATER IN ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA TO LOOK AT WHY THE SONG ENDURES.

>> Reporter: "OVER THE RAINBOW." EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS SONG. BUT WHY? WHAT MAKES US KNOW THIS SONG?

>> AMAZINGLY, THE ANSWER TO THAT STARTS WITH THE VERY FIRST TWO NOTES. IN THIS FAMOUS OPENING IDEA, THERE'S REALLY ONLY TWO IDEAS. ONE OF THEM I CALL LEAP. THE OTHER ONE I CALL CIRCLE AND YEARN. IT'S IMPORTANT.

>> Brown: LEAP AND CIRCLE AND YEARN.

>> IT'S IMPORTANT YOU LEARN THESE TECHNICAL TERMS.

>> Brown: I DIDN'T START OFF WITH THAT IN PIANO CLASS.

>> Erin: WE START OFF WITH THE BIG LEAP. PRODUCERS WERE WORRIED NOBODY WOULD BUY THE SONG BECAUSE OF THE LEAP. IT'S A BIG LEAP MUSICALLY, BETWEEN TWO DIFFERENT WORLDS AND TWO PARTS OF THE VOICE. THE FIRST NOTE IS LOW. IT'S DOROTHY'S TROUBLED REALITY. IT'S KANSAS, ARIDITY, NO FLOWERS, IT'S THE BLACK AND WHITE OF THE BEGINNING OF THE FILM.

>> A PLACE WHERE THERE ISN'T ANY TROUBLE. DO YOU THINK THERE IS SUCH A PLACE, TOTO?

>> SO THIS IS KANSAS. THE UPPER NOTE IS MORE ETHEREAL. IT'S WHERE SHE WANTS TO ESCAPE TO. IT'S OZ. IT'S OVER THE RAINBOW. SO THESE TWO NOTES, KANSAS AND OZ, ARE GOING TO TURN OUT TO BE THE KEY TO THE WHOLE SONG, BUT YOU WON'T GET THEIR FINAL MEANING UNTIL THE LAST NOTES OF THE SONG. ♪ SOMEWHERE OVER THE RAINBOW WAY UP HIGH ♪ THERE'S A LAND THAT I HEARD OF ONCE IN A LULL LULLABY ♪

>> Brown: YOU'RE SAYING THROUGH TWO NOTES?

>> TWO NOTES. SO YOU START ON A NOTE, YOU CIRCLE BACK TO IT, AND THEN YOU YEARN. THAT'S IT. CIRCLE AND YEARN. NOW, THERE ARE THREE...

>> Brown: THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS SHE WARNING FOR, AND AT THE END WE REALIZE...

>> SHE'S YEARNING FOR HIGH C. THERE'S THREE LEAPS. FIRST ONE IS BIG. SOMEWHERE. NEXT ONE IS SMALL. ON WAY UP. THIRD ONE IS LOWER AND EVEN SMALLER. ♪ THERE'S AH. SO THREE LEAPS LIKE HER LEAPS, HER WORLD IS CONTRACTING. IT'S REALLY THE HARMONY THAT MAKES IT SO EXQUISITE. IT WAS CALLED A SONG OF YEARNING SOME HERE'S WHAT SHE'S YEARNING ABOUT. HE COULD EASILY HAVE WRITTEN A CHEERY ACCOMPANIMENT TO WAY UP HIGH. ♪ WAY UP HIGH BUT LISTEN TO THE YEARNING IN THE PIANO PART HERE. ♪ ♪ I MEAN, IT DOESN'T GET MORE BEAUTIFUL. THAT'S WHY WE'RE STILL LISTENING TO IT TODAY, THOSE BEAUTIFUL CHORDS. THEN IT'S SO SUBTLE. HE COULD HAVE WRITTEN THIS FOR THERE'S UP. BUT LISTEN TO THE ONE DARK CHORD. ♪ ♪ THEN WE FINISH CIRCLE AND YEARNS. CIRCLE. YEARN. ♪ ♪ CIRCLE AND YEARN. NOW, WHY IS THAT SO FANTASTIC? WHY DOES IT HOLD TOGETHER? REALLY WHAT WE'VE DONE. KANSAS, OZ. HE TAKES IT BACK FROM OZ BACK TO KANSAS IN A SIMPLE SCALE, BUT HE DOES IT LIKE THIS. ♪ ♪ SO WE YEARN FOR OZ. WE'RE STUCK IN KANSAS.

>> Brown: BUT THE CIRCLE THAT OCCURS TO ME THAT YOU'RE DOING THIS IS TO END UP BACK AT HOME.

>> TO END UP BACK AT HOME.

>> Brown: THAT'S THE THEME OF THE FILM WE ALL REMEMBER IS THERE EMBEDDED IN THE MUSIC.

>> IT IS, BUT WHEN SHE COMES BACK THE HOME, SHE UNDERSTANDS HOME IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WAY, AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES THE ENDING OF THE SONG SO MAGICAL. BECAUSE IN THE SECOND VERSE, WE'RE STILL STUCK IN KANSAS. ♪ DREAMS REALLY DO COME TRUE WE HAVE A BEAUTIFUL MIDDLE. WE DON'T HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT. THE THIRD TIME, SAME MUSIC. THE SONG SHOULD HAVE FINISHED ♪ WHY, OH THEN WHY CAN'T I SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN HOME BUT NEVER HAVE GONE TO OZ INCH A BEAUTIFUL MOMENT, THIS IS A FANTASTIC MOMENT, ARLEN BRINGS BACK THE MIDDLE OF THE SONG BUT IN THE ORCHESTRA. THERE'S A BEAUTIFUL PERSON WHO WROTE THE WORDS, "WORDS MAKE YOU THINK THOUGHTS. MUSIC MAKE YOU FEEL A FEELING AND A SONG MAKES YOU FEEL A THOUGHT." YOU CAN FEEL HER THINKING. JUST THE ORCHESTRA. ♪ ♪ THEN SHE COMES BACK, JUST LIKE IN THE B SECTION, ♪ IF HAPPY LITTLE BLUE BIRDS FLY BEYOND THE RAINBOW ♪ WHY OH WHY CAN'T I IF IT COPIED THE MIDDLE, IT WOULD HAVE GONE LIKE THIS. ♪ ♪ BUT INSTEAD HE CHANGES IT ♪ BEYOND THE RAINBOW SHE HAS ONE LAST RISE, REMEMBER, KANSAS, OZ, KANSAS, OZ. ♪ WHY, OH, WHY WHERE DOES SHE FINALLY GET TO? OZ. FROM LOW C TO HIGH C, FROM KANSAS TO OZ, FROM REALITY TO FANTASY, AND HER TRANSFORMATION IS COMPLETE.

>> Brown: "OVER THE RAINBOW," ROB KAPILOW, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Woodruff: AND I LOVE THAT SONG. THANK YOU, JEFF. ONLINE, AS THE HOUSE HOLDS A RARE MID-SESSION VOTE FOR A SPEAKER, OUR POLITICS TEAM DECIDED TO PUT TOGETHER A QUIZ TO SEE HOW WELL YOU KNOW THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. FIND THAT, AND SIGN UP FOR OUR POLITICS NEWSLETTER, ON OUR HOMEPAGE, pbs.org/newshour. TUNE IN TONIGHT ON CHARLIE ROSE: FORMER FED CHAIRMAN BEN BERNANKE WITH AN INSIDER'S VIEW OF THE FINANCIAL CRISIS. AND THAT'S THE NEWSHOUR FOR TONIGHT. ON WEDNESDAY, GWEN SITS DOWN WITH BILL AND MELINDA GATES, AND I HEAD TO IOWA TO INTERVIEW HILLARY CLINTON. I'M JUDY WOODRUFF, JOIN US ONLINE, AND AGAIN HERE TOMORROW EVENING. FOR ALL OF US AT THE PBS NEWSHOUR, THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT.

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