PBS NewsHour; January 28, 2011 7:00pm-8:00pm EST

Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS

>> Lehrer: GOOD EVENING. I'M JIM LEHRER. THE PROTESTS ESCALATED IN EGYPT TODAY AS THOUSANDS OF ANTI- GOVERNMENT DEMONSTRATORS CLASHED WITH POLICE.

>> Woodruff: AND I'M JUDY WOODRUFF. ON THE NEWSHOUR TONIGHT, WE GET THE LATEST ON THE VIOLENT UPRISING FROM CORRESPONDENTS ON THE GROUND IN CAIRO.

>> Lehrer: AND WE ASSESS THE OPTIONS FOR THE PROTESTERS, THE EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT, AND THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

>> Woodruff: PLUS, JEFFREY BROWN GETS THE STORY BEHIND THE STORY OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN WIKILEAKS LEADER JULIAN ASSANGE AND "THE NEW YORK TIMES" FROM "TIMES" EDITOR BILL KELLER.

>> I HAVE LABELED HIM AN ACTIVIST, SOME KIND OF ANTI- SECRECY VIGILANTES. YOU KNOW, I THINK PEOPLE LIKE ME SHOULD BE A LITTLE HUMBLE ABOUT WHO GETS TO BE CALLED A JOURNALIST.

>> Lehrer: AND MARK SHIELDS AND DAVID BROOKS ANALYZE THE WEEK'S NEWS. THAT'S ALL AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S NEWSHOUR. MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY:

>> I MEAN, WHERE WOULD WE BE WITHOUT SMALL BUSINESSES?

>> WE NEED SMALL BUSINESSES.

>> THEY'RE THE ONES THAT HELP DRIVE GROWTH.

>> LIKE ELECTRICIANS, MECHANICS, CARPENTERS.

>> THEY STRENGTHEN OUR COMMUNITIES.

>> EVERY YEAR, CHEVRON SPENDS BILLIONS WITH SMALL BUSINESSES. THAT GOES RIGHT TO THE HEART OF LOCAL COMMUNITIES, PROVIDING JOBS, KEEPING PEOPLE AT WORK. THEY DEPEND ON US.

>> THE ECONOMY DEPENDS ON THEM.

>> AND WE DEPEND ON THEM.

>> FOR THREE HOURS A WEEK, I'M A COACH, BUT WHEN I WAS DIAGNOSED WITH PROSTATE CANCER, I NEEDED A COACH. OUR DOCTOR WAS GREAT, BUT WITH SO MANY TOUGH DECISIONS, I FELT LOST. UNITED HEALTHCARE OFFERED A SPECIALLY TRAINED R.N., WHO HELPED US WEIGH AND UNDERSTAND ALL OUR OPTIONS. FOR ME, CANCER WAS AS SCARY AS A FASTBALL IS TO SOME OF THESE KIDS, BUT MY COACH HAD HIT THAT PITCH BEFORE.

>> TURNING DATA INTO USEFUL ANSWERS. WE'RE 78,000 PEOPLE LOOKING OUT FOR 70 MILLION AMERICANS. THAT'S HEALTH IN NUMBERS. UNITED HEALTHCARE.

>> BNSF RAILWAY.

>> THE WILLIAM AND FLORA HEWLETT FOUNDATION, WORKING TO SOLVE SOCIAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS AT HOME AND AROUND THE WORLD. AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU.

>> Lehrer: LATE TODAY, PRESIDENT HOSNI MUBARAK OF EGYPT APPEARED ON TELEVISION AND ASKED FOR HIS CABINET'S RESIGNATION. THAT CAME ON THIS FOURTH DAY OF UNREST. POLICE BATTLED VAST CROWDS OF PROTESTERS IN CAIRO AND OTHER CITIES. THE GOVERNMENT TRIED TO IMPOSE AN OVERNIGHT CURFEW, AND IT CALLED OUT THE ARMY TO RESTORE CALM. WE BEGIN OUR COVERAGE WITH THIS REPORT ON TODAY'S PROTESTS FROM JONATHAN RUGMAN OF INDEPENDENT TELEVISION NEWS.

>> Reporter: PANDEMONIUM IN EGYPT'S CAPITOL. RIOT POLICE CLASHING WITH TWHOUS OF PROTESTORS. YEARS OF FRUSTRATION EXPLODING ON TO THE STREETS. IN THIS, THE MOST POPULOUS COUNTRY IN THE ARAB WORLD, IN THE BIGGEST REBELLION AGAINST PRESIDENT HOSNI MUBARAK IN 30 YEARS. DOWN WITH THE REGIME, THEY CHANTED, OVER AND OVER. DOWN WITH THE REGIME. THIS IS A CORRUPT REGIME. WE ARE FED UP WITH THE REGIME.

>> Reporter: THE REGIME IS A FAILURE. HELP US. PEOPLE ARE BEING BURNED.

>> Reporter: THE TROUBLE BEGAN NOT LONG AFTERNOON. EGYPTIANS EMERGING FROM THEIR MOSQUES AFTER PRAYERS INTO THIS. WE WATCHED A FEWERUOUS CROWD CONFRONTING RIOT POLICE, BLOCKING THE ENTRANCE TO CAIRO'S FREEDOM SQUARE. PEOPLE WANT THE REGIME TO GO, THEY SHOUTED, WHILE FALL ANGS OF POLICE REINFORCEMENTS MOVED INTO POSITION. THEN THE FIRST OF COUNTLESS FOLEYS OF TEAR GAS. THE CROWD SKATERING INTO THE SAFETY OF THE BACK STREETS. AND MORE GAS EVERY TIME THEY REGROUPED BENEATH THE CITY'S CONCRETE UNDERPASSES. AND WHEN THAT DIDN'T WORK, WATER CANNON AND RUBBER BULLETS. OVER THE NILE THERE'S BRIGHT WINTER SUNSHINE BUT LOOK MORE CLOSELY AND A CROWD OF THOUSANDS IS STREAMINGING ACROSS. UNTIL THE POLICE FORCES THEM BACK. THEN AN EXTRAORDINARY CALM IN THIS REBELLION. HUNDREDS PAUSING FOR PRAYER BEFORE RUNNING BACK TO THE FRONT LINE. A POLICE POST WAS SET A LIGHT. AND THE AIR HAS BEEN THICK WITH TEAR GAS FOR HOURS, MINGLED WITH SMOKE FROM PROTESTORS' FIRES. AND AMID THE SCREAMING, THE SHOUTING AND THE WOUNDED, THIS MUCH IS CLEAR, EGYPT'S 82-YEAR-OLD PRESIDENT HAS NEVER FACED ANYTHING LIKE THIS. IT WASN'T JUST CAIRO, THIS WAS THE PORT CITY OF SUEZ TODAY WHERE SECURITY FORCES LOST CONTROL OF THE STREETS. RIOT POLICE WERE CONFRONTED BY CROWDS IN THE TENS OF THOUSANDS. ARMOURED VEHICLES AND GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS WERE SET A LIGHT, IN CLASHES WHICH LEFT AT LEAST ONE MAN DEAD. AND WALKING INTO THIS FIRESTORM IS THE RETIRED U.N. DIPLOMAT WHOSE'S HINTED THAT HE MIGHT BE THE LEADER OF A POST MUBARAK EGYPT. MOHAMMED ELBARADEI JOINING PROTESTORS AND CALLING FOR THE REGIME TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE. THOUGH THE NOBEL WINNERS' SUPPORTERS WERE BEATEN WHEN THEY TRIED MARCHING THIS AFTERNOON. TONIGHT CAIRO IS IN CHAOS. THERE ARE FIRES BURNING AROUND THE MUBARAK PARTY HEADQUARTERS. THE AIR IS THICK WITH SMOKE, RINGING WITH THE SOUND OF GUNFIRE, ALONG WITH THE CRIES OF THOUSANDS CALLING FOR THE END OF THE MUBARAK REGIME. A NATION-WIDE BLOCK ON THE INTERNET AND MOBILE PHONE COVERAGE HAS FAILED TO STOP THIS IN-- INSURECTION AND IT ISN'T CLEAR WHAT WILL. IT WAS AFTER-- WHEN PRESIDENT MUBARAK APPEARED ON STATE TELEVISION, HIS FIRST APPEARANCE SINCE THE CRISIS BEGAN. HE SAID HE WAS SORRY THAT PEOPLE HAD BEEN INJURED. AND HE PROMISED POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC REFORMS. BUT HE ALSO DEFENDED THE CRACKDOWN AGAINST PROTESTORS.

>> THERE'S A FINE LINE THAT SEPARATES FREEDOM AND CHAOS. I'M ABSOLUTELY ON THE SIDE OF FREEDOM OF EACH CITIZEN IN EXPRESSING OUR OPINION. AND AT THE SAME TIME, I AM ON THE SIDE OF THE SECURITY OF EGYPT. AND I WOULD NOT LET ANYTHING DANGEROUS HAPPEN THAT WOULD THREATEN THE PEACE AND THE LAW AND THE FUTURE OF THE COUNTRY. I ASK THE GOVERNMENT TO SUBMIT THEIR RESIGNATION TODAY, AND I WILL TELL THE NEW GOVERNMENT STARTING TECHNOLOGY IN VERY SPECIFIC GOALS TO WORK WITH THE CURRENT SITUATION.

>> Woodruff: FOR THE LATEST ON THE GROUND IN EGYPT MARGARET WARNER SPOKE BY PHONE A SHORT TIME AGO WITH JOHN RAY, ANOTHER OF ITN'S CORRESPONDENTS IN CAIRO.

>> Warner: JOHN RAY, REPORTING FROM CAIRO. WE'VE JUST HEARD THIS DRAMATIC ANNOUNCEMENT FROM PRESIDENT MUBARAK THAT HE'S ASKED HIS WHOLE GOVERNMENT TO RESIGN. THERE GOING TO BE A WHOLE NEW GOVERNMENT IN PLACE TOMORROW. HAS THERE BEEN ANY REACTION YET?

>> I THINK IT'S FAR TOO EARLY. THERE ARE STILL EVEN AT THIS LATE HOUR, IT'S MIDNIGHT THIRTY HERE IN CAIRO, A LARGE, LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON THE STREETS. WE ARE HEARING THE SOUNDS OF BATTLE IN THE DISTANCE FROM OUR HOTEL ROOM. THERE IS STILL TEAR GAS BEING-- TEAR GAS BEING FIRED. I THINK THE REACTION, THOUGH, WHEN THEY DO HEAR THE NEWS WILL BE ONE OF GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT BECAUSE REMEMBER, THESE PROTESTORS REALLY HAVE A LOAD OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT UNEMPLOYMENT, ABOUT HIGH PRICES. BUT IT ALL COALESCES AROUND ONE DEMAND THAT IS FOR MUBARAK TO GO AND HE ISN'T GOING, HE'S STILL THERE HE'S STILL SAYING THAT I'M THE MAN IN CHARGE AND I'M STAYING.

>> Warner: NOW HE WAS OFFERING THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMMUNICATE. HE KEPT SAYING NOT THROUGH VIOLENCE BUT WE CAN COMMUNICATE ABOUT THESE GRIEVANCES. IS THERE A LEADER OF THESE PROTESTS? ARE THERE OPPOSITION LEADERS TO COMMUNICATE WITH WHO WOULD STEP FORWARD IF THIS IS A GENUINE OFFER?

>> WELL, THE PROBLEM IS, OF COURSE, THERE IS A GREAT DEAL OF LEADERSHIP IN THE OPPOSITION. TOO MUCH LEADERSHIP, YOU MIGHT SAY. THERE ARE MODERATE REFORMERS LIKE MOHAMMED ELDAR A BAY,-- EL BAR A DAY, THE FORMER U.N. NUCLEAR WATCHDOG CHIEF, A REASONABLE MAN, A DIPLOMAT, A MODERATE REFORMER, A MAN MAYBE THAT MUBARAK COULD DO BUSINESS WITH. BUT THE PROBLEM IS ELBARADEI HAS NO CONSTITUENCY HERE. AND THEN THERE'S A MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD. NOW THEY ARE PROBABLY THE MOST ORGANIZED OF THE OPPOSITION GROUPS. BUT THEY'RE NOT LEGAL. THEY ARE SORT OF TOLERATED. BUT THEY ARE ILLEGAL. SO IT'S DIFFICULT TO THINK OF HIM DOING BUSINESS WITH THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE. I THINK THE REAL DIFFICULTY HERE IS TO BELIEVE THAT PRESIDENT MUBARAK IS OFFERING ANY KIND OF SIGNIFICANT COMPROMISE. THIS IS A MAN WHO HAS MADE A CAREER OUT OF INFLEXIBILITY TO. DO ANYTHING OTHERWISE, HE IS BREAKING THE HABIT OF THE PRESIDENCY.

>> Warner: NOW WHEN YOU TALK TO LEADERS OF ANY OF THESE PROTESTS, DO YOU GET A SENSE THAT THEY WOULD STAND BACK AND LET SOMEBODY NEGOTIATE WITH THE GOVERNMENT?

>> I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT WILL HAPPEN. THERE IS ONLY ONE CHANT THERE IS ONLY ONE SLOGAN, THERE IS ONLY ONE THING THAT THEY SHOUT OUT ON THE STREETS. AND THAT IS THAT MUBARAK MUST GO. THEY WANT A NEW PRESIDENT. THEY WANT A NEW SYSTEM, THAT HE HAS GOT TO GO. IT SEEMS FOR THEM THEY WOULD BE SITTING DOWN WITH THE VERY DEVIL.

>> Warner: NOW HE ALSO, OF COURSE, STRONGLY EMPHASIZED THE SECURITY OF STATE, HOW HE WASN'T GOING TO LET FEAR RUN HIS COUNTRY. THE ARMY CAME IN THIS AFTERNOON AS YOU ALL REPORTED TODAY. HOW AGGRESSIVE ARE THERE TACTICS?

>> IT'S REALLY HARD TO SAY. I'VE WATCHED TONIGHT AS ROW UPON ROW OF ARMOURED VEHICLES ROLL TOWARDS THE MAIN CENTRAL SQUARE IN THIS CITY, NOT JUST ARMOURED PERSONNEL CARRIERS BUT TANKS. WE COUNTED ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, MANY, MANY TANKS HEADING THAT WAY. AT THE SAME TIMES THERE'S NO SIGN YET OF THEM OPENING FIRE ON ANYBODY. WHICH I SUPPOSE WOULD BE A DRAMATIC WAY OF RESTORING SOME KIND OF GOVERNMENT CONTROL TO THE STREETS OF CAIRO. BUT OF COURSE I THINK THAT WOULD OPEN UP A WHOLE HORNET'S NEST. BUT THE POSITION IS PIVOTAL. MUBARAK IS RELYING ON THEM. HE NEEDS THEIR SUPPORT. THE ARMY, I THINK IF THE EGYPTIAN ARMY THOUGHT THAT MUBARAK'S CONTINUE PRESIDENCY DAMAGED THEIR CAUSE, AND THAT IS PARTICULARLY SIGNIFICANT IN RELATIONSHIP TO AID PACKAGES FROM THE UNITED STATES, AND I THINK THEY MAY DO AS THE ARMY IN TUNISIA DID TO THEIR PRESIDENT, AND SAY LISTEN, IT'S TIME TO GO.

>> Warner: HAVE THE PROTEST ERRS BEEN REACTING DIFFERENTLY TO THE ARMY AS TO THE POLICE WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN ATTACKING POLICE VEHICLES,.

>> THERE HAS BEEN A REAL MIXTURE OF REACTION. I HAVE SEEN SCENES OF PROTESTORS PELTING ARMOURED VEHICLES WITH MISSILES AS THEY PASSED. BUT IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY WE HAVE SEEN A ROW OF ARMY TRUCKS MOVING IN. AND THEY'RE BEING MOBBED AND UNWELCOMED BY THE PEOPLE-- AND WELCOMED. THE ARMY IS MORE POPULAR HERE THAN THEY ABSOLUTELY HATED POLICE AND SECURITY FORCES WHO HAVE BEEN MAKING THEMSELVES EVEN MORE UNPOPULAR AS EVERY DAY PROTESTORS CONTINUED HERE.

>> Warner: NOW BEFORE PRESIDENT MUBARAK SPOKE WHAT WERE THE OPPOSITION'S PLANS OR PROTESTORS' PLANS FOR TOMORROW?

>> I'M NOT SURE THEY WERE THINKING BEYOND TODAY, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, MARGARET. THIS WAS THE SECOND BIG DAY OF-- OF A WEEK OF PROTEST, A WEEK OF UNPRECEDENTED PROTESTS WHICH CULMINATED IN TRULY MO MEANTOUS SCENES IN CAIRO. I CANNOT THINK THIS HE HAVE MADE PLAN FORCE TOMORROW EXCEPT, PERHAPS, TO DO THE SAME THING AGAIN. THOUGH NOT ON THIS SCALE. THEY WILL HAVE THE ARMY TANKS PARKED ON THE STREET. THEY WILL MAKE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT FOR THEM. AND OF COURSE THE INTERNET IS STILL DOWN HERE, MOBILE TELEPHONE COMMUNICATIONS HAVE BEEN SEVERED. EGYPT IS A COMMUNICATIONS BLACK SPOT AT THE MOMENT SO IT WILL BE DIFFICULT TO ORGANIZE IN THAT SENSE. BUT SEEING WHAT THEY DID TODAY WITHOUT THE HELP OF SOCIAL MEDIA, IT IS PRETTY IMPRESSIVE.

>> Warner: JOHN RAY OF ITN NEWS, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Lehrer: WE HAVE MORE ON EGYPT COMING UP, WITH A LOOK AT THE GOVERNMENT AND THE DEMONSTRATORS; THEN, THE SECRETS AND SOURCES BEHIND THE WIKILEAKS STORY; AND SHIELDS AND BROOKS. BUT FIRST, THE OTHER NEWS OF THE DAY. HERE'S HARI SREENIVASAN.

>> Sreenivasan: THE GROWING TUMULT IN EGYPT SHOOK FINANCIAL MARKETS TODAY. THE SELL-OFF ALSO FED ON NEWS THAT THE U.S. ECONOMY GREW AT A 3.2% RATE AT THE END OF 2010. THAT WAS THE MOST IN NEARLY A YEAR, BUT LESS THAN EXPECTED. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE LOST 166 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 11,823. THE NASDAQ FELL 68 POINTS TO CLOSE BELOW 2,687. FOR THE WEEK, THE DOW AND THE NASDAQ LOST A FRACTION OF A PERCENT. THERE WAS ALSO NEW TROUBLE IN TUNISIA TODAY. POLICE CLASHED WITH PROTESTERS NEAR THE PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE IN TUNIS. THE SECURITY FORCES STORMED THE PROTESTERS' CAMP AND FIRED TEAR GAS TO DISPERSE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE. THE DEMONSTRATORS HAD BEEN HOLDING A SIT-IN THERE FOR FIVE DAYS. MEANWHILE, THE NEW GOVERNMENT BOWED TO DEMANDS TO REMOVE MOST MINISTERS LEFT OVER FROM THE FORMER RULING PARTY. IN AFGHANISTAN, A SUICIDE BOMBER KILLED EIGHT PEOPLE, INCLUDING FOREIGNERS, AT A GROCERY STORE IN KABUL. THE SUPERMARKET WAS LOCATED IN A HEAVILY GUARDED DISTRICT THAT IS HOME TO MANY DIPLOMATS AND WESTERNERS. INITIAL REPORTS SAID TWO AMERICANS WERE KILLED, BUT THE U.S. EMBASSY COULD NOT CONFIRM THAT. THE TALIBAN CLAIMED RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ATTACK. IT SAID THE TARGET WAS A WORKER FOR THE FORMER BLACKWATER SECURITY FIRM. FORMER SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT NELSON MANDELA HAS BEEN RELEASED FROM A HOSPITAL IN JOHANNESBURG. HE WENT HOME TODAY AFTER TREATMENT FOR A RESPIRATORY INFECTION. OFFICIALS SAID THE 92-YEAR-OLD MANDELA WAS IN GOOD SPIRITS AND STABLE CONDITION. HE'S RECEIVED THOUSANDS OF MESSAGES FROM WELL-WISHERS, INCLUDING ONE FROM PRESIDENT OBAMA. FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF RAHM EMANUEL TURNED HIS FOCUS BACK TO RUNNING FOR MAYOR OF CHICAGO TODAY. LAST EVENING, THE ILLINOIS SUPREME COURT AFFIRMED HIS ELIGIBILITY FOR THE OFFICE. THE COURT OVERTURNED A LOWER COURT RULING THAT EMANUEL HAD NOT LIVED IN CHICAGO FOR A FULL YEAR BEFORE THE ELECTION. THOSE ARE SOME OF THE DAY'S MAJOR STORIES. NOW, BACK TO JUDY.

>> Woodruff: AND WE COME BACK TO THE TURMOIL IN EGYPT. AT THE WHITE HOUSE, SPOKESMAN ROBERT GIBBS REPEATED PLEAS FOR BOTH SIDES TO AVOID VIOLENCE, AND SAID NOW IS THE TIME FOR THE MUBARAK GOVERNMENT TO REFORM. BUT HE WENT FURTHER, WITH A WARNING THAT WASHINGTON WILL REVIEW ITS FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO EGYPT. THE U.S. PROVIDED $1.3 BILLION IN MILITARY AID AND $250 MILLION IN ECONOMIC AID IN FISCAL YEAR 2010. GIBBS SPOKE TO REPORTERS BEFORE PRESIDENT MUBARAK ADDRESSED HIS COUNTRY THIS EVENING.

>> THE SECURITY PERSONNEL IN EGYPT NEEDS TO REFRAIN FROM VIOLENCE. PROTESTORS SHOULD REFRAME-- REFRAIN FROM VIOLENCE AS WELL. THE LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCES THAT HAVE FESTERED FOR QUITE SOME TIME IN EGYPT HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED BY THE EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT IMMEDIATELY. AND VIOLENCE IS NOT THE RESPONSE.

>> WHAT IS THE UNITED STATES DOING ABOUT AID?

>> OBVIOUSLY WE WILL BE REVIEWING OUR ASSISTANCE POSTURE BASED ON-- BASED ON EVENTS NOW AND IN THE COMING DAYS.

>> I'M WONDERING WHY THIS MESSAGE THAT YOU ARE DELIVERING FROM THE PODIUM AND WE HEARD FROM SECRETARY OF STATE CLINTON EARLIER TODAY, WHY THE PRESIDENT ISN'T HIMSELF MAKING THOSE SAME COMMENTS ON A PHONE CALL? I MEAN IT SEEM AS THAT IT WOULD BE MORE POWERFUL. THE PRESIDENT CAN PICK UP THE PHONE, CALL PRESIDENT PEW BARACK AND MAKE THE SAME REMARKS.

>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE-- WE ARE IN CONTINUAL CONTACT WITH, THROUGHOUT LEVELS OF OUR GOVERNMENT WITH THE EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT. AND I THINK WHAT'S ALSO VERY IMPORTANT IS WE HAVE NOT WAITED FOR THE EVENTS OF THE PAST SEVERAL DAYS TO BRING UP OUR CONCERNS AND THE CONCERNS OF THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT I SAID. ASSOCIATION, ASSEMBLY, FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, FREEDOM, INTERNET FREEDOMS. THOSE ARE DISCUSSIONS THAT ARE HAD AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY WHEN ANYBODY FROM OUR GOVERNMENT MEETS WITH THE EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT.

>> YOU HAVE REPEATEDLY SAID THAT THE U.S. IS URGING FOR REFORM IN EGYPT. BUT CONCRETELY WHAT TYPES OF REFORMS ARE YOU URGING FOR AND ALSO IS THIS REALISTIC, GIVEN THAT THE SAME REGIME HAS BEEN IN POWER THERE FOR 30 YEARS?

>> WELL, LET ME-- I OUTLINED A COUPLE OF THINGS YESTERDAY AND REPEATED THEM TODAY. THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT WE CERTAINLY WOULD ENVISION. I THINK AND I WILL REPEAT THOSE. OBVIOUSLY I MENTIONED FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS. I MENTIONED OUR CONDEMNATION OF THE EXTENSION OF EMERGENCY LAW. AND THAT THAT SHOULD BE ENDED. BUT THE GRIEVANCES OF THE PEOPLE HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED DIRECTLY BY THE GOVERNMENT. AND I THINK THERE HAS TO BE A SIGNIFICANT AND THOROUGH DIALOGUE TO ADDRESS, AGAIN, A WHOLE HOST OF INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS THAT THE PEOPLE, WE BELIEVE, ARE LACKING.

>> Woodruff: THE STATE DEPARTMENT ISSUED WARNINGS URGING U.S. CITIZENS TO POSTPONE NON-ESSENTIAL TRAVEL THERE, AND SAID AMERICANS IN EGYPT SHOULD STAY INDOORS. FOR MORE ON THIS VERY DRAMATIC DAY IN EGYPT, WE TURN TO: STEVEN COOK, SENIOR FELLOW FOR MIDDLE EASTERN STUDIES AT THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS. HE JUST RETURNED LAST NIGHT FROM A TRIP TO EGYPT, WHERE HE MET WITH MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNMENT, AS WELL AS PROTESTERS; SAMER SHEHATA, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF ARAB POLITICS AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY; AND MARY-JANE DEEB IS CHIEF OF THE AFRICAN AND MIDDLE EAST DIVISION AT THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS. THE VIEWS SHE EXPRESSES HERE ARE HER OWN. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING WITH US. LET ME START WITH YOU, STEVEN COOK, BECAUSE YOU ARE JUST BACK, YOU HAVE LISTENED TO PRESIDENT MUBARAK'S STATEMENT. WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF IT? HE'S STAYING IN PLACE. HE'S DEFINAL-- DEFIANT.

>> MY FIRST REACTION IS THAT IT'S STUNNINGLY DELUDED. FROM THE VERY BEGINNING WHEN THESE PROTESTS BEGAN ON TUESDAY AFTERNOON IN CAIRO, THE FIRST DEMAND OF THESE PROTESTORS IS THAT MUBARAK MUST GO. WHEN I WAS IN THE SQUARE ON TUESDAY NIGHT, THEY WERE SCREAMING THAT MUBARAK SHOULD JOIN BEN ALI IN SAUDI ARABIA. THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT. IT'S NOT ABOUT PRIME MINISTER, OR ABOUT THE MINISTERS. IT'S ABOUT PRESIDENT MUBARAK, HIS SON GAMEL AND THE RULING NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY. THE VAST MAJORITY OF EGYPTIANS WHO ARE NOW OUT ON THE STREET ITS WANT SIGNIFICANT CHANGE.

>> Woodruff: BUT MARY JANE DEEB HE IS SAYING HE WANTS REFORMS. HE WASN'T SPECIFIC. HE TALKED ABOUT DEALING WITH POVERTY, ECONOMIC REFORM BUT HE KEPT STRESSING SKURINGT.

>> WELL W THAT'S THE WAY HE IS PROTESTING HIM SELF-. HE'S CLAIMING THAT ALL THE THINGS THAT HE'S DOING, THE CLAMPING DOWN ON PEOPLE IS FOR SECURITY AND LAW AND ORDER. BUT THE EGYPTIANS KNOW THAT THIS IS A WAY OF PREVENTING THEM FROM GETTING WHAT THEY WANT. SO THEY'RE NOT GIVING IN.

>> Woodruff: SAMER SHEHATA, WHEN YOU LISTENED TO PRESIDENT MUBARAK, DID YOU HEAR ANYTHING DIFFERENT, ANYTHING OUT OF CHARACTER FOR HIM?

>> THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF OUT OF CHARACTER STATEMENTS. I MEAN IT WAS INTERESTING THAT HE BEGAN IMMEDIATELY BY EXPRESSING SOME SADNESS ABOUT THE DEATH OF THE PROTESTORS. AND HE ALSO SAID AND CONFIRMED, SUPPOSEDLY, BUT OF COURSE NO ONE BELIEVES THIS, HIS COMMITMENT TO PEACEFUL PROTEST AND THE RIGHT TO DO SO. SO I THINK THAT WAS AN INTERESTING OUT OF CHARACTER REMARK. BUT WITH REGARDS TO CREDIBILITY-- .

>> Woodruff: LET ME STOP YOU THERE, WHY DOW SAY NO ONE BELIEVES THIS?

>> WELL, THE MUBARAK REGIME LACKS CREDIBILITY AND MR. MUBARAK LACKS CREDIBILITY. AS STEVEN WAS SAYING, THE DEMAND HAS BEEN THAT MR. MUBARAK LEAVE, AN END TO THIS REGIME. THIS IS A PRESIDENT WHO IN 1981 SAID THAT HE WOULD ONLY BE A ONE-TERM PRESIDENT. THIS IS A PRESIDENT WHO HAS REPEATEDLY SAID THAT THE THE EMERGENCY LAW WOULD BE RESCINDED TIME AND TIME AGAIN. THIS IS A LAW THAT HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR OVER 30 YEARS. AND THIS IS A PRESIDENT WHO HAS PROMISED ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS TO HAVE FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS. AND THE ONLY THING THAT ARE CERTAIN, UNFORTUNATELY, ABOUT EGYPTIAN ELECTIONS IS THAT THEY ARE NOT FREE AND FAIR.

>> Woodruff: BUT STEVEN COOK, THE MILITARY AND THE POLICE WERE IN THE STREETS. SECURITY FORCES, THE MILITARY ARE IN THE STREETS. WE WERE SEEING ON THE WIRES THAT THE TANKS HAVE MOVED INTO THE CENTRAL SQUARE IN CAIRO, WHAT FURTHER CAN THE PROTESTORS DO?

>> WELL, THEY CAN CONTINUE TO PROTEST. AS WE HEARD IN THE REPORTS, SOME PROTESTORS ARE CONTINUING TO OPPOSE THE ARMY AND OTHERS ARE WELCOMING THEM AS A SHIELD BETWEEN THEM AND THE REVILED POLICE. NOW MUBARAK IS REALLY DOUBLING DOWN BY SENDING THE ARMY OUT. THE ARMY IS A PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION. IT DOES NOT RELISH KEEPING THE STREETS OF HE GYP-- EGYPT QUITE BUT THEY ARE DEEPLY ENTWINED WITH THIS REGIME. THEY HAVE BENEFITED FROM THIS REGIME. AND CLEARLY THEY MAINTAIN THE TRUST IN PRESIDENT MUBARAK. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE WILLING TO GO OUT IN THE STREETS AND TRY TO CALM THIS SITUATION.

>> Woodruff: MARY JANE DEEB, WHO IS MUBARAK LISTENING TO NOW? HOW IS HE MAKING THESE DECISIONS?

>> HE HAS ADVISORS AROUND HIM. BUT WITH THE ISSUE OF THE ARMY, AND I THINK IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE, IT DEPENDS WHO IS ADVISING THE PRESIDENT. AND THE TOP BRASS OF THE ARMY ARE ADVISING HIM. BUT THE REST RFT ARMY IS REALLY A CROSS-SECTION OF THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE. BECAUSE OF CON DESCRIPTION, YOUNG MEN FROM ALL CLASSES, FROM ALL GROUPS OF SOCIETY, EDUCATED AND YOU KNOW, PAST HIGH SCHOOL GET NOT ARMY. SO WHICH WAY, THE ARMY IS GOING TO GO. WILL DEFINE THIS UPRISING. IF THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE ARMY GO WITH THE PROTESTORS, THEN MUBARAK IS GOINGING TO FALL. IF THE TOP BRASS SUCCEEDS IN KEEPING THE ARMY FIGHTING THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE STREET, THEN MUBARAK STAYS.

>> Woodruff: IS THERE ANY WAY TO KNOW, SAMER SHEHATA WHICH WAY THE ARMY WILL GO?

>> WELL, THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW RIGHT NOW. I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE TOMORROW, HOWEVER, BECAUSE PROTESTORS ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO PROTEST. PEOPLE WERE EXPECTINGING IN EGYPT THIS EVENING, LISTENING TO PRESIDENT MUBARAK, FOR HIM TO SAY THAT HE WAS GOING TO EITHER RESIGN OR NOT RUN IN THE SCHEDULED PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS IN 2011. THAT WAS THE MINIMUM THAT PEOPLE MIGHT BE WILLING TO ACCEPT. SO THE QUESTION NOW IS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO OUT INTO THE STREETS TOMORROW AND CONTINUE THEIR PROTEST UNTIL SOMETHING MAJOR HAPPENS, UNTIL THIS REGIME POSSIBLY FALLS. SO THE QUESTION NOW BECOMES IS WHAT WILL THE ARMY DO TOMORROW WHEN THE PROTESTORS ARE OUT THERE. ARE THEY GOING TO DO WHAT THEY ARE DOING NOW WHICH IS GUARDING PUBLIC BUILDINGS OR ARE THEY GOINGING TO OPEN FIRE ON THEIR COUNTRYMAN. AND THIS IS NOT WHAT THE EGYPTIAN ARMY DOES. THEY'RE NOT DEPLOYED ON TO THE STREETS. AND THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE A GREAT DEAL MORE RESPECT AND ADMIRATION AMONG ODE EGYPTIANS. THEY'RE A NATIONAL INSTITUTION. THEY ARE NOT THE BOOT OF THE REGIME AGAINST THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE WHICH IS WHAT THE INTERIOR MINISTRY, THE POLICE AND THE SECURITY FORCES ARE.

>> IT'S INTERESTING. THE MILITARY HAS GONE OUT INTO THE STREETS BEFORE, IN 1977, DURING THE BREAD RISE THAT SHOOK THE SADAT REGIME BUT THEY EXTRACTED A CONCESSION FROM SADAT. HE HAD WANTED TO CUT SUBSIDIES AND BEFORE GOING OUT NOT STREETS THE MILLER TEAR SAID YOU MUST RESTORE THOSE SUBSIDIES BEFORE WE PUT DOWN THIS POPULAR UNREST. IN 1986 THEY CAME OUT IN THE STREETS TO PUT DOWN RIOTS BY THE SECURITY FORCES. BUT THIS IS NOT AS SAMER SAID THE JACK BOOT OF THE REGIME IT IS THE INTERIOR MINISTRY FORCES THAT HAVE DONE THE DIRTY WORK OF KEEPING EGYPT'S STREETS QUIET.

>> IT A MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ARMY'S PRESENCE ON THE STREET IN '86 AND EARLIER WITH THE FOOD RIOTS. THOSE WERE NOT POLITICALLY MOTIVATED DEMONSTRATIONS AND PROTESTS. THOSE WERE ECONOMICALLY BASED AND IN THE CASE OF THE SECURITY FORCES. THESE DEMONSTRATIONS UNLIKE ANY WE'VE SEEN IN EGYPT OVER THE PAST THREE OR FOUR DECADES ARE POLITICAL IN NATURE. THEY ARE ABOUT REMOVING THIS REGIME, A REGIME THAT HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR 29 YEARS, THREE MONTHS AND 20 SOME DAYS.

>> Woodruff: MARRY JANE DEEB, WE KEEP HEARING THERE'S VERY LITTLE ORGANIZATION AMONG THE PROTESTORS. WE HEARD THE CORRESPONDENTS IN CAIRO SAYING THEY DIDN'T SEEM TO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE WERE GOING TO DO TOMORROW. ARE THEY AS DISORGANIZED AND SPONTANEOUS AS WHAT WE ARE WATCHING?

>> NOT REALLY. WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT SOME OF THE BLOGS. AND SOME OF THE BLOGS HAVE MANIFESTOES. THEY TRY TO DEFINE WHO THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY WANT. THEY HAVE SPECIFIC DEMANDS. THE FIRST, OF COURSE, IS THE POLITICAL DEMAND TO GET RID. GOVERNMENT, TO HAVE FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS. BUT THEY ALSO ADDRESS ECONOMIC ISSUES. THEY ALSO ADDRESS ISSUES OF POVERTY. THEY ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF YOUNG PEOPLE COMING, GRADUATING FROM UNIVERSITIES AND NOT FINDING JOBS AND THEY WANT SAFETY NETS FOR THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE COMING UP. SO THEY ARE ADDRESSING A SPECIFIC ISSUES AND THEY ARE COMING OUT IN BLOGS, AND CALLING NEIGHBORS TO ORGANIZE. THEY EVEN HAVE MAPS WHERE DEMONSTRATORS SHOULD BE GOING DOWN AND DEMONSTRATING. THEY HAVE A SPECIFIC LOCATION THAT NEED TO BE ATTACKED. SO I HAVE SEEN SOME OF THE BLOGS. AND THEY'RE FASCINATING.

>> SO IF THEY'RE ORGANIZED, WHO ARE THE LEADERS OF THE OPPOSITION?

>> WELL, THAT'S THE THING. THERE IS NO CENTRAL ORGANIZING GROUP OR NODE HERE. THIS, WHAT TRANSPIRED ON TUESDAY AND CONTINUED ON WEDNESDAY WAS ESSENTIALLY FLASH MOB PROTEST. IT WAS DONE THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA. IT WAS DONE THROUGH FACEBOOK AND BLOGS AND TWITTER IN WHICH PEOPLE WERE COMMUNICATINGING WITH EACH OTHER WHERE TO GO. WHERE PEOPLE WERE MEETING UP AND THEN SUDDENLY-- .

>> Woodruff: NOW THAT'S BEEN SHUT DOWN.

>> NOW IT HAS BEEN SHUT DOWN. BUT THAT WAS A MUCH SMALLER CROWD. NOW YOU HAVE A WIDER AND DEEPER SECTION OF EGYPTIAN SOCIETY OUT ON THE STREETS. THERE ISN'T REAL NEED FOR COORDINATION.

>> Woodruff: FINAL QUESTION ABOUT THE ROLL THE U.S. WAS PLAYING A. WE HEARD ROBERT GIBBS SAYING CLEARLY WER'S LOOKING AT AID TO EGYPT AND HOW PRESIDENT MUBARAK HANDLES THIS. WHAT BEARING WILL THAT HAVE ON WHAT HAPPENS THERE.

>> I HOPE IT HAS A BEARING BUT SO FAR FROM LISTENING TO PRESIDENT MUBARAK'S SPEECH IT SEEMS NOT TO HAVE HAD A BEARING. THE U.S.'S POSITION SEEMS TO HAVE EVOLVED OVER THIS OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS. WILL YOU REMEMBER SECRETARY CLINTON SAID THAT SHE BELIEVED THE EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT WAS STABLE AND THEN SOMEHOW SAID THAT BOTH SIDES NEED TO SHOW RESTRAINT. PRESIDENT OBAMA'S REMARKS YESTERDAY SHOWED A FOCUS, THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS ISSUE. AND MR. GIBB'S REMARKS EMPHASIZED THE NEED OF PEACEFUL PROTEST AND EMPHASIZED THE RIGHT OF EGYPTIANS TO PROTEST. IT WAS REALLY A WARNING TO MR. MEW BARAK,-- MR. MUBARAK.

>> Woodruff: WEIM'S BEING TOLD THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA DID SPEAK WITH PRESIDENT MUBARAK TODAY, I'M TOLD FOR HALF AN HOUR. AND I'M TOLD TO EXPECT A STATEMENT FROM PRESIDENT OBAMA SHORTLY. SO WE WILL SEE WHERE THAT HEADS. WELL, IT'S CLEARLY A FAST-MOVING STORY AND WE WANT TO THANK ALL THREE OF YOU FOR BEING WITH US. MARY JANE DEEB, STEVEN COOK, SAMER SHEHATA, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Lehrer: NOW, AN INSIDE LOOK BEHIND THE WIKILEAKS DOCUMENTS AND STORIES. AND TO JEFFREY BROWN.

>> Brown: JULY 26, 2010-- "THE NEW YORK TIMES" CARRIES A SERIES OF ARTICLES UNDER THE TITLE "THE WAR LOGS," BASED ON THE UNAUTHORIZED RELEASE OF THOUSANDS OF CLASSIFIED GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS FROM THE AFGHAN WAR EFFORT. THE "TIMES," COLLABORATING WITH "THE GUARDIAN" OF LONDON AND THE GERMAN "DER SPIEGAL," RECEIVED THE DOCUMENTS FROM AN ORGANIZATION CALLED WIKILEAKS, FOUNDED IN 2006 TO PUBLISH SENSITIVE MATERIAL ANONYMOUSLY AND HEADED BY AN AUSTRALIAN NAMED JULIAN ASSANGE. IN OCTOBER, "THE WAR LOGS" ARTICLES CONTINUED, THIS TIME GLEANED FROM 400,000 LEAKED DOCUMENTS RELATED TO THE IRAQ WAR. AND ON NOVEMBER 29, THE PAPER BEGAN WHAT IT CALLED A "RAW LOOK INSIDE U.S. DIPLOMACY"-- STORIES BASED ON 250,000 LEAKED U.S. EMBASSY CABLES. THE CABLES HAVE LED TO FURTHER REPORTS REVEALING PRIVATE, SOMETIMES EMBARRASSING DETAILS OF U.S. RELATIONS WITH COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD, INCLUDING, JUST TODAY, INSIGHTS INTO THE UPHEAVALS IN EGYPT. LAST JUNE, FEDERAL AUTHORITIES ARRESTED ARMY INTELLIGENCE SPECIALIST BRADLEY MANNING, WHO IS SUSPECTED OF BEING THE SOURCE FOR WIKILEAK'S DOCUMENTS. ON MONDAY, THE "TIMES" IS RELEASING AN E-BOOK TITLED "OPEN SECRETS: WIKILEAKS, WAR AND AMERICAN DIPLOMACY." THE STORY OF THE PAPER'S INVOLVEMENT WITH WIKILEAKS IS TOLD IN THIS SUNDAY'S MAGAZINE BY THE MAN WHO OVERSAW THE COVERAGE, "NEW YORK TIMES" EDITOR BILL KELLER. AND BILL KELLER JOINS US NOW FROM THE "TIMES'" NEWSROOM. MR. KELLER A MID WHAT YOU CALL A WHOLESALE SECURITY BREACH YOU HAD TO MAKE SOME IMMEDIATE DECISIONS ABOUT WHETHER TO PROCEED AND HOW TO DEAL WITH ALL THIS MATERIAL. WHAT WAS THE KEY THING RIGHT OFF THE BAT IN MAKING THOSE DECISIONS?

>> WELL, THE FIRST THING WAS REALLY TWO THINGS. IT WAS IS IN STUFF LEGITIMATE S IT REAL. AND IS IT OF PUBLIC INTEREST. WE SENT ONE OF OUR BEST MILITARY CORRESPONDENTS TO LONDON TO LOOK AT THE STUFF, SOMEBODY, A GUY NAMED HE RIBLING SCHMIDT WHO HAD SEEN A LOT OF CONFIDENTIAL MILITARY DISPATCHES AND HE TOOK SOME TIME TO READ THROUGH A LOT OF THEM. AND ASSURED US THAT YES, THESE WERE THE REAL DEAL. AND THEY THEY WERE QUITE INTERESTING.

>> Brown: DID YOU EVER CONSIDER EARLY ON OR EVEN LATER NOT GOING AHEAD, NOT PUBLISHING. WAS THERE ANY ARGUMENT, DISSENT ABOUT THAT AT THE TIMES?

>> NO, THERE WAS CONSIDERABLE DISCUSSION OF WHICH CABLES WE WOULD PUBLISH AND WHICH, WHAT MATERIAL WE MIGHT EXCISE FROM THOSE CABLES. BUT FROM EARLY ON, IT WAS CLEAR THAT WE HAD SOMETHING THAT WAS OF ENORMOUS PUBLIC INTEREST.

>> Brown: JULIAN A SANG-- AS SANK REMAINS A MISS-- ASSANGE REMAINS A MYSTERIOUS PERSON WHAT DID YOU COME TO THINK OF HIM, TO MAKE OF HIM?

>> I THINK HIS MOTIVATIONS WERE ESSENTIALLY, I DON'T WANT TO TRY TO LABEL THEM AS AN AR KISS PARTICULAR BUT THEY-- ANARCHISTIC BUT THEY WERE INITIALLY TO EMBARRASS BIG GOVERNMENTS, ESPECIALLY THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT. I'M NOT SURE HE SUCCEEDED QUITE IN DOING THAT. BUT THEN ALSO TO PROMOTE A KIND OF IDEOLOGY OF TRANSPARENCY. HE SAID ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS THAT TRANSPARENCY, TOTAL TRANSPARENCY IS AN ULTIMATE GOOD. AND THAT'S HIS BELIEF. THAT'S HIS AGENDA.

>> Brown: AND DID YOU OR DO YOU CONSIDER HIM TO BE A JOURNALIST? WHAT DOW LABEL HIM?

>> I HAVE LABELED HIM AN ACTIVIST, A KIND OF ANTI-SECRECY VIGILANTE. YOU KNOW, I THINK PEOPLE LIKE ME SHOULD BE A LITTLE HUMBLE ABOUT DECIDING WHO GETS TO BE CALLED A JOURNALIST. AND I HAVE NOT USED THAT, HE'S AT LEAST NOT THE KIND OF JOURNALIST THAT I AM USED TO. I DO, HOWEVER, THINK THAT THE PROPOSALS TO GO AFTER HIM IN LEGAL N A WAY THAT WOULD CRIMINAL SIZE THE-- CRIMINALIZE THE PUBLICATION OF SECRETS TO SOME EXTENT PUT HIM IN THE SAME BOAT WITH US. I THINK HE SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW, DEFENDED AGAINST THOSE KINDS OF EXPANSIONS OF LEGAL CRACKDOWN ON THE PUBLICATION OF SECRETS.

>> Brown: DID YOU ASK ABOUT THE SOURCE OF THE MATERIAL? HOW MUCH DID YOU ACTUALLY KNOW ABOUT WHERE THIS WAS COMING FROM?

>> FIRSTHAND AND EVEN SECONDHAND I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING. AND OUR PARTNERS AT THE GUARDIAN DID ASK ABOUT THE SOURCE OF THE MATERIAL. AND HE WAS COY ABOUT IT. ON THE OTHER HAND WE HAVE ASSUMED ALL ALONG THAT IT PROBABLY CAME FROM BRADLEY MANNING, THE ARMY INTELLIGENCE PRIVATE WHO HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF IT WHILE WIKI LEAKS AND JULIAN ASSANGE HAVE NOT SAID EXPLESS ITALY THAT IT CAME FROM THAT SOURCE, THEIR WEB SITE INCLUDES SLOGANS ABOUT FREEING BRADLEY MANNING AND THEY HAVE SPOKEN VERY STRONGLY IN HIS DEFENSE.

>> Brown: NOW YOU DESCRIBE BRINGINGING WHAT YOU WERE DOING TO THE ATTENTION OF THE ADMINISTRATION. HOW MUCH PUSHBACK DID YOU GET, DO YOU TALK ABOUT THEM TRYING TO GET YOU NOT TO PUBLISH SOME THINGS BECAUSE OF CONCERNS OVER INTELLIGENCE SECRETS, OVER, OH, YOU KNOW, EMBARRASSING THINGS BETWEEN, ESPECIALLY WITH THE EMBASSY CABLES. HOW STRONG WAS THE PRESSURE THERE AND HOW DID YOU MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT TO GO AHEAD WITH?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE INITIALLY OF COURSE FURIOUS AT THIS KIND OF BREACH OF SECURITY. I THINK THEY WERE MORE UP SET BY THE DIPLOMATIC LEAKS THAN THE MILITARY LEAKS BECAUSE DIPLOMACY IS SO INHERENTLY SENSITIVE AND BECAUSE IT COVERED SUCH A WIDE RANGE OF SUBJECTS THAT IT JUST FELT, I THINK, OVERWHELMING TO THEM. AND EMBARRASSING. SO IT WAS INITIALLY A FAIR AMOUNT OF TENSION IN THE CONVERSATIONS WHICH THEY QUICKLY RESOLVED, I THINK IN FAVOR OF ENGAGING US. I THINK THEY DECIDED THAT THEY COULD ACTUALLY DO SOME GOOD BY TALKING TO US ABOUT SPECIFIC THINGS THAT THEY WISHED WE WOULDN'T PUBLISH RATHER THAN JUST SORT OF WASHING THEIR HANDS OF IT AND SAYING WE DISAVOW THIS WHOLE ENTERPRISE THAT YOU ARE ENGAGED IN. WE TALKED TO THEM PARTICULARLY WHEN WE GOT TO BE THE QUARTER OF A MILLION STATE DEPARTMENT CABLES, WE DEVELOPED A KIND OF PROCESS WHERE A FEW DAYS IN ADVANCE OF THE STORIES WE WERE GOING TO RUN, WE WOULD SEND THEM THE CABLES THAT WE INTENDED TO SITE. THEY TOLD-- CITE, THEY TOLD US WHAT THEY WISHED WE WOULD NOT USE. WE AGREED WITH SOME AND NOT WITH OTHERS.

>> Brown: DID YOU SAY, THOUGH, THAT YOU GOT A LOT OF FLACK FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD. PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THAT TENSION. THAT HISTORIC TENSION, REALLY, BETWEEN THE PRESS AND GOVERNMENT OVER LETTING YOUR FEELING THAT YOU WANT TO LET THE PUBLIC KNOW AND THE GOVERNMENT'S RIGHT TO PROTECT THE REST OF US. AND YOU WROTE THE PEOPLE WROTE HOW DARE YOU, WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT, MEANING WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO LEAK THESE SECRETS, WHAT IS THE ANSWER TO THOSE PEOPLE.

>> IT IS A NATURAL AND UNDERSTANDABLE FEELING THAT PEOPLE HAVE, PARTICULARLY I THINK POST 9/11 WHEN THERE IS A GENERAL FEELING OF VULNERABILITY THAT MAYBE WASN'T THERE BEFORE. AND IT'S A BATTLE THAT HAS GONE ON FOR DECADES OR MORE THAN DECADES BETWEEN GOVERNMENTS WHICH HAVE A LEGITIMATE RIGHT TO TRY TO PROTECT THEIR SECRETS AND THE PRESS BY TRIES TO FERRET OUT THE SECRETS AND PUBLIC THEM. AND YOU KNOW, IT'S-- THE GOVERNMENT'S JOB TO KEEP ITS SECRETS. AT'S NOT OUR JOB TO DO IT FOR THEM. BUT I THINK IN A RESPONSIBLE, JOURNALISTIC ORGANIZATION, YOU TRY TO DO YOUR BEST THAT ARE YOU MITIGATING ANY COLLATERAL DAMAGE THAT YOU ARE MAKING SURE THAT ARE YOU NOT PUTTING LIVES AT RISK WHEN YOU PUB LISH THE SORTS OF INFORMATION. AND THAT YOU ARE TRADING OFF, THAT YOU ARE MAKING A CALCULATION THAT THIS IS REALLY WORTH IT.

>> Brown: ANOTHER CRITICISM YOU FACED AND WROTE ABOUT IS THAT BY DOING BUSINESS WITH AN ORGANIZATION LIKE WIKI LEAKS, THE TIMES AND OTHER NEWS ORGANIZATIONS COMPROMISED OR POTENTIALLY COMPROMISED YOUR IMPARTIALIALITY AND INDEPENDENCE. AND AS YOU WROTE ASSANGE BOASTED AT ONE POINT THAT HE ACTED AS A PUPPET MASTER MANIPULATING THE COVERAGE.

>> UH-HUH, UH-HUH. HE DID. HE SAID A LOT OF THINGS. AND NOT ALL OF THEM ARE TRUE. AND HE, EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT WE AGREED TO AN EMBARGO ON THE TIMING OF THE RELEASE, HE HAD NO IMPUT OR INFLUENCE WHATSOEVER ON WHAT WE CHOSE TO PUBLISH AND WHAT ANGLE WE CHOSE TO TAKE ON THE SUBJECTS THAT WE WROTE ABOUT.

>> Brown: BUT IN-TERMS OF THE IMPARTIAL Y'ALLITY, OR THE INDEPENDENCE QUESTION OR THE CRITICISM THAT YOU GOT?

>> YOU KNOW, EVERY SOURCE WHO BRINGS YOU INFORMATION WHETHER IT'S SECRETS OR NOT, YOU KNOW, HAS SOME KIND OF AN AGENDA. THEY VERY RARELY COME TO YOU WITH THE PURE, FOR THE PURE JOY OF HAVING INFORMATION MADE PUBLIC. AND YOU HAVE TO SORT OUT THE MOTIVATION FROM THE SOURCE FROM THE QUALITY OF THE MATERIAL WHICH WHICH THINK WE DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF IN THIS RESPECT. I MEAN ONE EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, JULIAN ASSANGE MADE CLEAR THAT HE HOPED THESE DIPLOMATIC CABLES WOULD BE A MAJOR EMBARRASSMENT TO THE UNITED STATES. HE AT ONE POINT SAID THAT HILLARY CLINTON SHOULD RESIGN AS A RESULT. I THINK FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE THE IMPACT WAS QUITE DIFFERENT. IT WAS THAT THIS SHOWED A LOT OF DIPLOMATS AS PUBLIC SERVANTS DOING THEIR JOB. IT ALSO SHOWED THAT THEY CAN WRITE PRETTY WELL.

>> Suarez: THIS-- .

>> Brown: THIS ALSO RAISED, OF COURSE LARGER QUESTIONS WHICH YOU ADDRESS AT THE END OF YOUR ARTICLE ABOUT HOW WIKILEAKS AND OTHER SUCH SITES CHANGE OR POTENTIALLY CHANGE THE NATURE OF JOURNALISM TODAY. THE WORLD THAT THE INTERNET HAS OPENED UP WHERE SO MUCH FLOWS WITHOUT VERIFICATION, FOR EXAMPLE. I READ THAT THE REPORT, YOU SAID THAT THE TIMES IS LOOKING AT POSSIBLY OPENING UP SUCH A SITE TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO FEED IN INFORMATION. ARE YOU WORRIED AT ALL ABOUT THIS NEW WORLD? YOU HAVE THE POWER, THE RESOURCES TO CHECK A LOT OF WHAT COMES TO YOU. BUT NOT EVERYBODY DOES.

>> SURE. YOU KNOW, AS A SORT OF GENERAL MATTER I THINK THE WORLD HAS CHANGED. IT CHANGED BEFORE WIKILEAKS. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT JUST THAT SECRETS SEEP OUT. IT'S THE ACCELERATION OF EVERYTHING AND THE SORT OF RAPID SPREAD OF INFORMATION. THE WORLD IS DIFFERENT. THE INTERNET HAS IS A DIFFERENT WORLD FOR JOURNALISTS AND HAS CHANGED THE WAY WE PRACTICE. IT MEANS THAT SOME NEWS ORGANIZATIONS ARE RUSHED AND NOT AS CAREFUL AS THEY SHOULD BE. FAX DON'T GET-- FACTS DON'T GET CHECKED AS THOROUGHLY AS THEY SHOULD. YEAH, ALL OF THAT IS CAUSE FOR CONCERN BUT THEY'RE ISSUES THAT WE CAN DEALING WITH, I THINK. AT LEAST AT THE TIMES WE'RE CERTAINLY TRYING TO.

>> Brown: BILL KELLER, EDITOR OF "THE NEW YORK TIMES", THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> Lehrer: AND, FINALLY TONIGHT, THE ANALYSIS OF SHIELDS AND BROOKS-- SYNDICATED COLUMNIST MARK SHIELDS, "NEW YORK TIMES" COLUMNIST DAVID BROOKS. PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS MADE HIS STATEMENT ABOUT EGYPT AND WE'RE GOING TO RUN AN EXCERPT OF IT IN A MOMENT. AND IN FACT, WE'RE GOING TO DO IT RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT.

>> GOOD EVENING, EVERYBODY. MY ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN CLOSELY MONITORING THE SITUATION IN EGYPT AND I KNOW THAT WE WILL BE LEARNING MORE TOMORROW WHEN DAY BREAKS. AS THE SITUATION CONTINUES IT TO UNFOLD, OUR FIRST CONCERN IS PREVENTING INJURY OR LOSS OF LIFE. SO I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR IN CALLING UPON THE EGYPTIAN AUTHORITIES TO REFRAIN FROM ANY VIOLENCE AGAINST PEACEFUL PROTESTORS. THE PEOPLE OF EGYPT HAVE RIGHTS THAT ARE UNIVERSAL, THAT INCLUDES THE RIGHT TO PEACEFUL ASSEMBLY AND ASSOCIATION, THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH AND THE ABILITY TO DETERMINE THEIR OWN DESTINY. THESE ARE HUMAN RIGHTS AND THE UNITED STATES WILL STAND UP FOR THEM EVERYWHERE. I ALSO CALL UPON THE EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT TO REVERSE THE ACTIONS THAT THEY'VE TAKEN TO INTERFERE WITH ACCESS TO THE INTERNET, TO CELL PHONE SERVICE AND TO SOCIAL NETWORKS THAT DO SO MUCH TO CONNECT PEOPLE IN THE 21st CENTURY. AT THE SAME TIME, THOSE PROTESTING IN THE STREETS HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES PEACEFULLY. VIOLENCE AND DESTRUCTION WILL NOT LEAD TO THE REFORMS THAT THEY SEEK. NOW GOING FORWARD, THIS MOMENT OF VOLATILITY HAS TO BE TURNED INTO A MOMENT OF PROMISE. THE UNITED STATES HAS A CLOSE PARTNERSHIP WITH EGYPT AND WE HAVE WEIGH COOPERATED ON MANY ISSUES INCLUDING WORKING TOGETHER TO ADVANCE A MORE PEACEFUL REGION. BUT WE'VE ALSO BEEN CLEAR THAT THERE MUST BE REFORM. POLITICAL, SOCIAL, AND ECONOMIC REFORMS THAT MEET THE ASPIRATIONS OF THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE. IN THE ABSENCE OF THESE REFORMS, GRIEVANCES HAVE BUILT UP OVER TIME. WHEN PRESIDENT MEW BARAK ADDRESS-- MUBARAK ADDRESSED THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE TONIGHT HE PLEDGED A BETTER DEMOCRACY AND GREATER ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY. I JUST SPOKE TO HIM AFTER HIS SPEECH. AND I TOLD HIM HE HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO GIVE MEANING TO THOSE WORDS. TO TAKE CONCRETE STEPS AND ACTIONS THAT DELIVER ON THAT PROMISE. VIOLENCE WILL NOT ADDRESS THE GRIEVANCES OF THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE. AND SUPPRESSING IDEAS NEVER SUCCEEDS IN MAKING THEM GO AWAY. WHAT'S NEEDED RIGHT NOW ARE CONCRETE STEPS THAT ADVANCE THE RIGHTS OF THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE. A MEANINGFUL DIALOGUE BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND ITS CITIZENS. AND A PATH OF POLITICAL CHANGE THAT LEADS TO A FUTURE OF GREATER FREEDOM, AND GREATER OPPORTUNITY AND JUSTICE FOR THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE. NOW ULTIMATELY THE FUTURE OF EGYPT WILL BE DETERMINED BY THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE. AND I BELIEVE THAT THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE WANT THE SAME THINGS THAT WE WALL WANT. A BETTER LIFE FOR OURSELVES AN OUR CHILDREN AND A GOVERNMENT THAT IS FAIR AND JUST AND RESPONSIVE. AND MUT SIMPLY THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE WANT A FUTURE THAT BEFITS THE HEIRS SO A GREAT AND ANCIENT CIVILIZATION.

>> Lehrer: DAVID WHAT DID YOU THINK OF WHAT THE PRESIDENT JUST SAID?

>> I THINK THEY HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB IN THE LAST 24 HOURS OF RECALCULATE-- CALIBRATING THEIR RESPONSE. I THINK INITIALLY AS IN MANY RESPONSES WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION THEY ARE CAUTIOUS AND ON THE SIDE OF WHAT EVER GOVERNMENT THAT IS IN POWER AND PREFERRING ORDER TO DISORDER. BUT THEY HAVE SEEN IN PART BECAUSE OF THE ACTIONS OF THE EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT OVER THE PAST 24 HOURS THAT THEY HAVE TO RECALIBRATE. AND I THINK PRESIDENT OBAMA STOOD FOR A COUPLE OF IMPORTANT THINGS. ONE HE STOOD FOR HUMAN RIGHTS AND THE IDEA THAT WE WILL ALWAYS STAND FOR CERTAIN HUMAN RIGHTS TO ASSEMBLE, TO EXPRESS YOURSELF AND THAT SORT OF THING. THE SECOND THING HE STOOD FOR WAS HE CLEARLY PUT MORAL LEGITIMACY ON THE PART OF THE PROTESTORS AND SAID THEIR DEMANDS FOR REFORMS ARE ABSOLUTELY LEGITIMATE DEMANSD. I THINK THAT WAS AN IMPORTANT THING TO SAY. COHAVE BEEN MAYBE MORE FORCEFUL BUT I THINK DE PRETTY WELL. AND THE THIRD PIFER OTAL THING I THOUGHT OF OF WHAT HE SAID IS HIM CALLING ON MUBARAK SAYING MUBARAK HAD A RESPONSIBILITY TO GIVE MEAT TO THE TALK ABOUT REFORMS. NOW I THINK THAT'S USEFUL TO SAY. THE NEXT POLICY FOR THE ADMINISTRATION IS WHEN MUBARAK DOESN'T PUT MEAT ON THAT WHICH HE CERTAINLY WILL NOT, WHAT DO YOU DO THEN? AND BUT I THINK THEY'VE MOVED QUITE WELL IN THE LAST 24 HOURS.

>> Lehrer: QUITE WELL IN THE LAST 24 HOURS, MARK?

>> YES, I THINK WE WERE CAUGHT, THE UNITED STATES, THE ADMINISTRATION, WAS CAUGHT BETWEEN A HIGH IDEALS AND THE HARD REALITY THAT, THE REALITY BEING THAT BEYOND IT BEING THE LARGEST COUNTRY IN THAT REGION, IT HAS ALSO BEEN THE MOST IMPORTANT ALLY OF THE UNITED STATES AS FAR AS ISRAEL IN PRESERVING PEACE. AND WITHOUT THAT, THE NEXT ADMINISTRATION IN EGYPT AND WE DON'T KNOW WHO IT WILL BE OR WHAT FORM IT MIGHT TAKE. IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE IT WILL BE ANYWHERE NEAR AS SUPPORTIVE AND A LOT MORE SUSPICIOUS AND MORE SKEPTICAL TOWARD THE UNITED STATES AND NO GUARANTEE THAT THEY WILL RETAIN THE 32 YEAR COMMITMENT TO THE RECOGNITION OF ISRAEL AND PEACE WITH ISRAEL THAT IS PROBABLY SAVED US FROM WAR. I THOUGHT THE PRESIDENT DID LAY DOWN THE LAW TO THE MUBARAK REGIME. IN TERMS OF ECONOMIC REFORM, ONE HALF OF THE PEOPLE IN EGYPT LIVE ON LESS THAN $2 A DAY. I MEANS THAT'S A REAL. THAT IS A HARSH REALITY WHEN ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ECONOMIC REFORM. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY DOUBTS THAT THE LAST ELECTION HELD IN EGYPT WAS NOT OPEN, WAS NOT HONEST, WAS NOT FAIR. AND SO I THINK THAT THE PRESIDENT LAID OUT THE CASE RATHER DEFINITELY AND EMPHATICALLY.

>> IS IT EMPHATIC ENOUGH TO CALL IT A THREAT, DAVID?

>> I DON'T THINK IT WAS. I THINK THEY PULLED BACK. THERE IS SORT OF A POLITICAL CONTEXT, AN AMERICAN CON TEX, AFTER 9/11 PRESIDENT BUSH GAVE A SPEECH IN LONDON IN 2001 OR 2002 SAYING THESE OS I FEWED REGIMES LIKE THIS ONE ARE A THREAT TO WORLD FEES BECAUSE THEY BREED TERRORISM AND ARE INHERENTLY UNSTABLE. AND HE SAID WE WOULD PREFER TO SEE THESE OSSIFIED REGIMES FALL THINKING THAT IN THAT PROCESS WE'LL GET SOMETHING BETTER. AFTER IN ABOUT 2005 EVEN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION BEGAN TO REVERSE ITSELF AFTER HAMAS WON AN ELECTION IN GAZA, AND NOW WITH THE END OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, WE'VE A PREFERENCE FOR ORDER. AND SO THERE'S STILL BEEN THAT PREFERENCE FOR ORDER FEARING, AS MARK SAYS, LEGITIMATELY THINGS COULD GET WORSE. AND SO I THINK OBAMA IS STILL A LITTLE-- A LITTLE INHERITINGING THAT TRADITION. THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT THE PEOPLE OUT ON THE STREETS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALWAYS THE THREAT OH IT IS THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD THAT IS WHAT THE AUTOCRATS ALWAYS SAY BUT IF YOU LISTEN TO WHAT THE PEOPLE ON THE STREET ARE SAYING, THEY ARE FOR ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY, THEY'RE FOR DEMOCRACY. THEY'RE FOR LIVING IN A DYNAMIC SOCIETY. AND SO I GUESS I WISH THE ADMINISTRATION WOULD BE A LITTLE MORE FORWARD, EVEN MORE AGGRESSIVE THAN THEY WERE TONIGHT IN SAYING YES, THEY'RE RIGHT. THEY ARE NOT ONLY RIGHT BUT THEY'RE PROBABLY GOINGING TO LEAD TO A BETTER MIDDLE EAST.

>> BUT MARK, ISN'T IT UNUSUAL FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO GET ON THE PHONE WITH THE PRESIDENT OF AN INDEPENDENT NATION AND SAY HERE'S WHAT I WANT TO YOU DO MR. PRESIDENT, AND THEN GO ON NATIONAL, ON HIS OWN NATIONAL TELEVISION AND SAY I DID IT. I JUST TOLD THIS GUY.

>> HALF AN HOUR AGO.

>> I WANT TO YOU DO THIS, AND NOW AS A RESULT OF THAT, EVERYBODY THINKS ABOUT THAT, DOES NEW NOW BECOME AN AMERICAN PROBLEM.

>> I THINK THE UNITED STATES IS VERY MUCH A MAJOR PLAYER NOW. AND THAT THE QUESTION TO THE PRESIDENT IS GOINGING TO BE, WHATEVER PRESIDENT MUBARAK DOES OR DOES NOT DO IN THE NEXT 24, 48 HOURS OR BEYOND, IS THAT WHAT YOU INSISTED UPON. HE IS MEETING YOUR STANDARDS, MR. PRESIDENT. THE FACT THAT WE HAVE 1.3 BILLION DOLLARS IN MILITARY AID AND 250 MILLION IN ECONOMIC AID, IN THE LAST FISCAL YEAR, I THINK IS PROBABLY THE LEVERAGE THAT THE PRESIDENT IS THEN GOING TO BE ASKING AS ROBERT GIBBS WAS EARLIER S THAT GOING TO BE-- .

>> Lehrer: BUT AS THE FOLKS TOLD JUDY EARLY IN THE PROGRAM, WHAT MOST OF THESE PEOPLE WANT, AND ALSO THE ITN REPORTER SAID THIS EARLIER TO MARGARET AND ON THEIR PIECE IS THAT THE PEOPLE ON THE STREET THEY WANT MUBARAK OUT. THIS ISN'T ABOUT REFORMING TO GET PEOPLE JOBS. THIS IS TO GET MUBARAK OUT.

>> YEAH. AND ONE DOUBTS THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR ALL HITS EL CONSEQUENCE CAN PERSUADE HIM TO GO. MAYBE IF HE IS HALFWAY TEMPTED TO GO WHICH I DOUBT YOU CAN EASE THE PATH. THAT'S BEEN DONE BEFORE. WE'RE GOINGING TO HAVE TO FACE A CRUNCH TIME WHEN HE SAYS I'M NOT GOING ANYWHERE. AND AS YOU SAY T IS UNUSUAL TO HAVE AS BLUNT A CONVERSATION REPORTED SO INSTANTLY, AS YOU SAY THAT IS QUITE REMARKABLE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT BUT I DON'T THINK THE ADMINISTRATION HAS GRAPPLED WITH WHAT WILL BE THE PAINFUL MOMENT WHEN HE'S STILL THERE IN A WEEK OR TWO WEEKS OR A MONTH.

>> Lehrer: DO YOU AGREE.

>> HE DID HAVE A TRADITION IN THE MIDDLE EAST TO TALKING TO A FRIENDLY DESPOT WITH A MEDICAL CONDITION AND ASKING HIM TO REFORM, THAT WAS 32 YEARS AGO I THINK IN IRAN.

>> SHAW OF IRAN, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. SPEAKING, BACK TO OTHER ISSUES FOR A MOMENT HERE BEFORE WE GO, HOW DOES THE PRESIDENT'S STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS LOOK TO YOU THREE NIGHTS LATER.

>> IT STRUCK ME THEM ATICALLY THE PRESIDENT-- WAS MASTERFUL. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE EXPECT OPTIMISM FROM THEIR LEADERS. HE PROJECTED OPTIMISM. HE CAPTURED THE FUTURE AMERICANS WANT TO LIVE IN THE FUTURE. THEY WANT THE COUNTRY TO BE FORWARD LOOKING. IT JUST STRIKES ME THAT THERE ARE TWO GREAT PROBLEMS IN THIS COUNTRY. I MEAN THAT JOBS AND THE ECONOMY, WE HAVE AN ECONOMY WHERE WE'VE GOT RECORD CORPORATE PROFITS AND WE'RE NOT PRODUCING JOBS FOR OUR PEOPLE. AND WE'VE GOT THIS INCREDIBLE FISCAL DEFICIT, DEBT TIME BOMB THAT IS ON A VERY, VERY SHORT WICK RIGHT NOW. AND ONE PARTY, THE DEMOCRATS ADDRESS AND WANT TO TALK ABOUT T AT LEAST IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMY, NOT PARTICULARLY-- BUT KIND OF WANT TO GO LIGHT ON THE SECOND. AND THE REPUBLICANS ONLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SECOND AND BASICALLY WANT TO TIPTOE AROUND THE FIRST. AND IT, WE'VE JUST GOT AN INCOMPLETE DIALOGUE.

>> Lehrer: DO AGREE, AN INCOMPLETE DIALOGUE.

>> WITH THE COUNTRY DOESN'T WANT TO TAKE THE TOUGH MEASURES. AND WHAT IT TAKES IS A PRESIDENT WHO NOT ONLY GIVES A GREAT THEMATIC SPEECH WHICH I AGREE IT WAS, BUT WHO SAYS HERE IS THE TOUGH MEASURES. I'M GOING TO CALL FOR SOME SACRIFICE ON ALL OF YOU. I AM GOING TO GET OUT IN FRONT OF YOU AND LEAVE THIS. AND WE'RE GOING TO DO SOME THINGS, NOT ONLY LIGHT-RAIL, I'M FINE WITH LIGHT-RAIL BUT MAYBE A LITTLE BIGGER THAN THAT, TO CREATE REAL JOBS. AND I'M GOING ITING TO MAKE SOME CUTS AND I'M GOINGING TO RAISE SOME TAX. THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT IS GOING TO AVOID A FISCAL CRISIS WHICH IS IMMINENT. 2019 OUR DEBT WILL BE A TRILLION DOLLARS. OUR INTEREST PAYMENTS ON THE DEBT ALONE WILL BE A TRILLION DOLLARS. SO THAT IS IMMINENT. I THINK HISTORIANS WILL LOOK BACK ON THIS CONGRESS, ON THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC SIDE AND SAY THEY GAVE GOOD SPEECHES BUT THE FACT THEY WEREN'T GRAPPLING WITH THIS WITH BOTH HANDS AT THIS MOMENT, THAT WILL STRIKE THEM AS BIZARRE.

>> Lehrer: BIZARRE.

>> THINK ABOUT THIS JUST IN TERMS OF THE DEFICIT, I MEAN THAT DOESN'T FILL A PRESCRIPTION THAT DOESN'T PUT A BOOK IN A CHILD'S HAND THAT DOESN'T PUT A PLANE IN THE AIR IT DOESN'T BUILD A BRIDGE. IT'S A TRANSFER PAYMENT. PEOPLE WITH ODE INCOME TAXES TO BONDHOLDERS. AND BONDHOLDERS ARE OVERWHELMINGLY BETTER OFF THAN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PAYING THE TAXES. IT IS A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE PUBLIC POLICY TO RUN UP THAT KIND OF DEFICIT THIS YEAR IN FISCAL YEAR 2011 WE WILL SPEND 24.7 PERCENT OF THE GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT OF THE COMPANY, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL, AND WILL COLLECT 14.8. THAT'S 10% DIFFERENCE. I MEAN YOU CAN'T DO THAT AND I AGREE WITH DAVID, THAT I MEAN WE'VE BEEN TALKING FOR TEN YEARS ABOUT SACRIFICE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GEORGE BUSH NOT-- WE HAVEN'T HAD A REAL CALL FOR SACRIFICE. HE MENTIONED IT IN THE SPEECH AS AN ABSTRACT KNOWN BUT AT NO POINT DID HE SAY THIS IS WHAT I AM ASKING OF YOU.

>> BOTH SET IT UP. THEY PUT EVERYTHING ON THE TABLE. THEY LAID THE PROBLEM OUT AND I THOUGHT HE REALLY COULD HAVE GRASPED THAT. WE ALL SAT WITH INTERVIEWS WITH ABOUT THE OBAMA AND HE'S ALWAYS SAID NEXT YEAR YEAR I'M REALLY GOINGING TO TACK ET-- DAMAGE EL THE DEFICIT IT IS LUCY PULLING AWAY THE FOOTBALL FROM CHARLIE BROWN AT SOME POINT. I WANT HIM TO ACTUALLY SAY OKAY THIS IS THE YEAR WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT. SO I GUESS MY REACTION TO THE SPEECH WAS VERY POSITIVE THE FIRST DAY BUT IT'S GOTTEN A LITTLE SOUR THE SUBSEQUENT DAYS.

>> Lehrer: THE SAME PROGRESSION FROM YOU? IT SOUNDED BETTER THE NIGHT HE SAID IT THAN IT DOES NOW?

>> WELL, THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF THE GARY HART, FRITZ MONDALE RACE, WHERE'S THE BEEF. I MEAN THE QUESTION THAT MONDALE ASKED OF HART, SORT OF A IN THE FUTURE WE'VE GOT TO GET MOVING. WE'RE A GREAT COUNTRY. WE'RE THIS AND THAT. HE VOLKED OUR GREAT DAYS OF THE PAST, GAVE US A SENSE OF CONFIDENCE AND OPTIMISM ABOUT THE FUTURE. BUT IT DIDN'T COME DOWN TO THE ACTION STATEMENT. THEREFORE THIS IS WHAT I AM ASKING OF YOU, AND ME, AND EVERY AMERICAN TONIGHT. THAT'S WHAT IS MISSING.

>> AND OF COURSE WHAT IS NEVER MISSING FOR A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, JUST ABOUT THE TIME YOU THINK YOU MAY HAVE ONE THING TO DO, NOW YOU HAVE EGYPT TO DEAL WITH AND ALL THE DOMINOES THAT COULD FLOW FROM THAT.

>> SO ANYHOW, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU. LINKS TO SITES TO TRACK THE DEVELOPMENTS AND THAT'S THE

>> Woodruff: AGAIN, THE MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS OF THE DAY: ON MONDAY, WE'LL TALK TO NATO SECRETARY GENERAL ANDERS RASMUSSEN ABOUT THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN AND OTHER TOPICS. I'M JUDY WOODRUFF.

>> Lehrer: AND I'M JIM LEHRER. "WASHINGTON WEEK" CAN BE SEEN LATER THIS EVENING ON MOST PBS STATIONS. WE'LL SEE YOU ONLINE, AND AGAIN HERE MONDAY EVENING. HAVE A NICE WEEKEND. THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT. MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY:

>> OKAY, LISTEN. SOMEBODY HAS GOT TO GET SERIOUS.

>> I THINK...

>> WE NEED RENEWABLE ENERGY.

>> ...RENEWABLE ENERGY IS VITAL TO OUR PLANET.

>> YOU HEAR ABOUT ALTERNATIVES, RIGHT? WIND, SOLAR, ALGAE.

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO WORK AN A BIG SCALE. ONLY, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE.

>> SO, WHERE ARE THEY?

>> IT HAS TO WORK IN THE REAL WORLD. AT CHEVRON, WE'RE INVESTING MILLIONS IN SOLAR AND BIOFUEL TECHNOLOGY TO MAKE IT WORK.

>> WE'VE GOT TO GET ON THIS NOW.

>> RIGHT NOW. AND BY THE ALFRED P. SLOAN FOUNDATION. SUPPORTING SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, AND IMPROVED ECONOMIC PERFORMANCE AND FINANCIAL LITERACY IN THE 21ST CENTURY. AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU. Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org VO:GEICO, COMMITTED TO PROVIDING SERVICE TO ITS AUTO INSURANCE CUSTOMERS FOR OVER 70 YEARS. MORE INFORMATION ON AUTO INSURANCE AT GEICO.COM OR 1-800-947-AUTO ANY TIME OF THE DAY OR NIGHT.