PBS NewsHour; April 27, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

Captioning sponsored by NEWSHOUR PRODUCTIONS, LLC

>> Woodruff: GOOD EVENING, I'M JUDY WOODRUFF. ON THE NEWSHOUR TONIGHT, PRESIDENT TRUMP STEPS BACK FROM PULLING THE PLUG ON THE NORTH AMERICAN FREE TRADE AGREEMENT, INSTEAD OFFERING TO RE-NEGOTIATE WITH MEXICO AND CANADA. ALSO AHEAD, WE CONTINUE OUR FIRST 100 DAYS REVIEW WITH A LOOK AT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S FOREIGN POLICIES-- THE SUCCESSES AND SETBACKS OF A PRESIDENT SHAKING UP THE GLOBAL STATUS QUO. AND, RISING MEDICAL COSTS IN THE U.S.-- THE EFFECT THAT INCREASING PRESCRIPTION DRUG PRICES HAS ON OVERALL HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICANS COMPARED WITH OTHER COUNTRIES.

>> WE SPEND TWO OR THREE TIMES WHAT OTHER COUNTRIES DO ON HEALTHCARE WITHOUT GETTING BETTER RESULTS, WHICH IS THE KEY HERE. WE'RE NOT GETTING A GOOD DEAL FOR ALL THE MONEY WE SPEND.

>> Woodruff: ALL THAT AND MORE ON TONIGHT'S PBS NEWSHOUR.

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>> Woodruff: THE U.S. MILITARY HAS TAKEN MORE CASUALTIES IN AFGHANISTAN AS IT BATTLES FIGHTERS OF THE ISLAMIC STATE. TWO TROOPS WERE KILLED OVERNIGHT AND A THIRD WAS WOUNDED. THEY'D GONE WITH AFGHAN FORCES ON A RAID IN NANGARHAR PROVINCE, NEAR THE PAKISTANI BORDER. A U.S. SPECIAL FORCES SOLDIER WAS KILLED THERE EARLIER THIS MONTH, AND DAYS LATER, THE U.S. DROPPED ITS LARGEST NON- NUCLEAR BOMB ON CAVES IN THE REGION. THE PENTAGON'S INSPECTOR GENERAL CONFIRMED TODAY IT'S INVESTIGATING FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR MICHAEL FLYNN. IT INVOLVES PAYMENTS HE RECEIVED FROM RUSSIA'S STATE-SUPPORTED TV NETWORK AND A TURKISH BUSINESSMAN AFTER HE LEFT THE MILITARY IN 2014. THE TOP DEMOCRAT ON THE HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE, ELIJAH CUMMINGS, SAID TODAY THAT PENTAGON DOCUMENTS MADE THE RULES CLEAR.

>> THE CONSTITUTION PROHIBITED HIM FROM ACCEPTING ANY FOREIGN GOVERNMENT PAYMENTS WITHOUT ADVANCE PERMISSION. THE PENTAGON'S WARNING TO GENERAL FLYNN WAS BOLD ITALICIZED AND COULD NOT HAVE BEEN CLEARER.

>> Woodruff: FLYNN'S ATTORNEY INSISTED THE PENTAGON WAS GIVEN DOCUMENTS THAT IMPLIED HE WAS BEING PAID FOR A TRIP TO RUSSIA. MEANWHILE, PRESIDENTIAL SPOKESMAN SEAN SPICER DISPUTED CUMMINGS' CLAIM THAT THE WHITE HOUSE REFUSED TO TURN OVER MATERIAL THE COMMITTEE WANTED.

>> WITH ALL DUE RESPECT HE GOT THE DOCUMENTS THAT HE REQUESTED. OUR JOB THEY SENT A FORM LETTER TO MULTIPLE AGENCIES ASKING FOR A COPY OF THIS. WHAT WE DID WAS PROPERLY REFER HIM TO THE ISSUING AGENCY AND DEPARTMENT AND SAID THIS IS WHERE YOU GOT IT AND HE GOT IT.

>> Woodruff: SPICER SAID FLYNN'S SECURITY CLEARANCE WAS HANDLED BY THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION. AND, HE SAID PRESIDENT TRUMP "MADE THE RIGHT CALL" WHEN HE FIRED FLYNN IN FEBRUARY, OVER HIS CONTACTS WITH THE RUSSIANS. CHINA TODAY WELCOMING A SOFTENING IN THE U.S. TONE ON NORTH KOREA'S NUCLEAR AND MISSILE PROGRAMS. ON WEDNESDAY, TOP TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS TAMPED DOWN SPECULATION THAT A MILITARY CONFRONTATION IS BREWING. THEY SAID THE FOCUS IS ON DIPLOMACY. CHINA'S FOREIGN MINISTRY CALLED IT A "POSITIVE" MESSAGE" ISRAEL HAS STRUCK ACROSS THE BORDER, INTO SYRIA, BLASTING AN ARMS DEPOT OF THE MILITANT GROUP HEZBOLLAH. THE STRIKE APPARENTLY TARGETED ADVANCED WEAPONS FROM IRAN, EARMARKED FOR THE MILITANTS. VIDEO ON SOCIAL MEDIA SHOWED EARLY MORNING EXPLOSIONS AT AN AIRPORT OUTSIDE DAMASCUS. LATER, THE ISRAELI MILITARY SAID IT INTERCEPTED A PROJECTILE FIRED FROM SYRIA. THE U.S. CONGRESS MOVED TODAY TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT RUNNING FOR ANOTHER WEEK, PAST FRIDAY'S MIDNIGHT DEADLINE. A ONE-WEEK FUNDING EXTENSION WILL PREVENT A SHUTDOWN, WHILE TALKS CONTINUE ON A LONG-TERM BILL THROUGH SEPTEMBER, THE END OF THE FEDERAL FISCAL YEAR. HOUSE LEADERS TRADED BLAME TODAY FOR HOLDING UP THE NEGOTIATIONS.

>> DEMOCRATS ARE DRAGGING THEIR FEET. EVEN IF WE GET AN AGREEMENT LET'S JUST SAY IN 10 MINUTES, WE SIMPLY CAN'T PROCESS THE PAPERWORK THAT LONG, AND WE HAVE A THREE-DAY RULE. WE-- PEOPLE NEED TO BE ABLE TO READ THE BILL.

>> I ASSUME THAT THEY HAVE THE VOTES TO PASS THEIR EXTENSION. WE ARE NEVER GOING TO SHUT GOVERNMENT DOWN. IN FACT, WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE POWER TO DO SO.

>> Woodruff: PRESIDENT TRUMP WEIGHED IN WITH A SERIES OF TWEETS ACCUSING DEMOCRATS OF TRYING TO SHUT DOWN NATIONAL PARKS AND HARMING THE SAFETY OF TROOPS OVERSEAS. A KENTUCKY DOCTOR DRAGGED FROM A UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT HAS REACHED A SETTLEMENT WITH THE CARRIER. DR. DAVID DAO'S ATTORNEY SAYS IT'S FOR AN UNDISCLOSED AMOUNT OF MONEY. DAO'S TREATMENT, AT THE HANDS OF CHICAGO AVIATION POLICE, WAS CAPTURED ON CELLPHONE VIDEO AND SPARKED WIDESPREAD PUBLIC OUTRAGE. UNITED ALSO ANNOUNCED TODAY IT WILL START OFFERING UP TO $10,000 TO PASSENGERS WHO GIVE UP THEIR SEATS. WALL STREET HAD A QUIET DAY. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE GAINED SIX POINTS TO CLOSE AT 20,981. THE NASDAQ ROSE 23 POINTS, AND THE S&P 500 ADDED ONE POINT. AND, THEY'RE CHEERING AT NASA FOR THE SPACE PROBE "CASSINI." THE SPACECRAFT PASSED THROUGH THE GAP BETWEEN SATURN AND ITS FAMOUS RINGS OVERNIGHT. ON THE WAY, IT GOT THE CLOSEST LOOK EVER AT THOSE RINGS AND THE PLANET'S ATMOSPHERE. IMAGES OF A MASSIVE, SWIRLING STORM ARE AMONG THE HIGHLIGHTS. "CASSINI" HAS BEEN ORBITING SATURN FOR 13 YEARS AND WILL CRASH INTO THE PLANET IN SEPTEMBER. STILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR: TOUGH TALK AND MIXED SIGNALS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF NAFTA. THE HEAD OF THE FCC'S PLANS TO REDUCE OVERSIGHT OF INTERNET PROVIDERS. PRESIDENT TRUMP'S FIRST HUNDRED DAYS IN FOREIGN POLICY, AND MUCH MORE.

>> Woodruff: NOW, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S TOUGH TALK AND THREATS OVER NAFTA, AND A PUSH TO REVISIT THE DECADES-OLD DEAL. IT'S BEEN A CENTRAL THEME FOR THE PRESIDENT. AND A SOURCE OF ANGER AND ANXIETY AMONG VOTERS. AT THE WHITE HOUSE, JOHN YANG STARTS US OFF.

>> RATHER THAN TERMINATING NAFTA, WHICH WOULD BE A PRETTY BIG SHOCK TO THE SYSTEM. WE WILL RENEGOTIATE.

>> Yang: WITH THE VISITING PRESIDENT OF ARGENTINA LOOKING ON, PRESIDENT TRUMP TOLD REPORTERS HE AGREED TO GIVE THE TRADE AGREEMENT ANOTHER SHOT AFTER TALKING TO HIS COUNTERPARTS IN MEXICO AND CANADA.

>> I WAS GOING TO TERMINATE NAFTA AS OF TWO OR THREE DAYS FROM NOW. THE PRESIDENT OF MEXICO WHO I HAVE A VERY, VERY GOOD RELATIONSHIP CALLED ME AND ALSO THE PRIME MINISTER OF CANADA WHO I HAVE A VERY GOOD RELATIONSHIP. I LIKE BOTH OF THESE GENTLEMEN VERY MUCH. THEY CALLED ME AND THEY SAID RATHER THAN TERMINATING NAFTA COULD YOU PLEASE RENEGOTIATE.

>> Yang: CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU SAID TODAY TERMINATING THE 23-YEAR-OLD DEAL WOULD CAUSE A LOT OF PROBLEMS.

>> I HIGHLIGHTED THAT QUITE FRANKLY WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS A BETTER DEAL TO COME THERE WERE AN AWFUL LOT OF JOBS AND AN AWFUL LOT OF INDUSTRIES RIGHT NOW THAT HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED UNDER THE NAFTA CONTEXT. AND A DISRUPTION LIKE CANCELING NAFTA, EVEN IF IT THEORETICALLY, EVENTUALLY MIGHT LEAD TO BETTER OUTCOMES WOULD CAUSE A LOT OF SHORT, MEDIUM TERM PAIN FOR AN AWFUL LOT OF FAMILIES.

>> Yang: THERE HAS BEEN REPORTS ABOUT WHETHER MR. TRUMP WAS GOING TO END AN NAFTA NOW, REFLECTING THE INTERNAL DEBATE AMONG THE PRESIDENT'S ADVISORS. BIG BUSINESS AND AGRICULTURAL INTERESTS WARNED AGAINST OUTRIGHT CANCELING THE DEAL, WHICH ERASED MOST TARIFFS AMONG THE UNITED STATES, CANADA AND MEXICO. UNHAPPINESS WITH NAFTA WAS A SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN ISSUE.

>> I'M GOING TO RENEGOTIATE NAFTA, ONE OF THE WORST TRADE DEALS EVER SIGNED IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, PERHAPS THE WORST EVER SIGNED IN THE HISTORY, FRANKLY, OF THE WORLD.

>> Yang: THE MOVE COMES AS THE ADMINISTRATION GETS TOUGH ON TRADE AS IT NEARS THE 100 DAY MARK. THIS WEEK THE WHITE HOUSE ANNOUNCED NEW TARIFFS ON CANADIAN SOFTWOOD LUMBER IMPORTS, AND THE PRESIDENT SAID CANADA WAS BLOCKING ACCESS TO U.S. MILK.

>> NOW IF I'M UNABLE TO MAKE A FAIR DEAL. IF I'M UNABLE TO MAKE A FAIR MEANING A FAIR DEAL FOR OUR WORKERS AND OUR COMPANIES I WILL TERMINATE NAFTA.

>> Yang: WHILE THE PRESIDENT SAID NEGOTIATIONS ARE STARTING TODAY IN FACT, THE U.S. MUST GIVE LEGAL NOTICE OF ITS INTENT TO RENEGOTIATE. THEN COMES A 90-DAY PERIOD OF CONSULTATION BEFORE ANY TALKS CAN OFFICIALLY BEGIN. FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR, I'M JOHN YANG AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> Woodruff: NOW, FOR ONE PERSPECTIVE ON NAFTA AND THE LATEST SIGNALS FROM THE WHITE HOUSE ON AMERICAN TRADE NEGOTIATIONS, I SPOKE WITH REPRESENTATIVE TIM RYAN, A DEMOCRAT FROM OHIO WHO AGREES WITH THE PRESIDENT THAT NAFTA HAS HURT THE U.S. MORE THAN IT'S HELPED.

>> WELL, IT CERTAINLY HAS DEVASTATED COMMUNITIES. A LOT OF THE PROMISES THAT WERE MADE THAT WE'D HAVE TRADE SURPLUSES WITH MEXICO NEVER CAME THE FRUITION. WE HAVE ABOUT A $4 BILLION TRADE DEFICIT EVERY SINGLE MONTH. WE'VE LOST ABOUT 160 SOME THOUSAND JOBS UP TO 2013 DIRECTLY RELATED TO TRADE WITH MEXICO PRIMARILY. AND THE JOBS THAT KIND OF REPLACED THOSE JOBS ARE ABOUT $7,000 A YEAR LESS IN PAY. SO IT HAS WIPED OUT ENTIRE COMMUNITIES. I UNDERSTAND IN THING ARY -- AGGREGATE, A LOT OF TRADE PROPONENTS SAY IT'S GOOD IN THE AGGREGATE, BUT IT'S WIPED OUT A LOT OF COMMUNITIES LIKE THE ONES I REPRESENT IN NORTHEAST OHIO.

>> Woodruff: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE PRESIDENT'S STATEMENTS OVER THE LAST DAY OR SO? HE STARTED OUT SAYING HE WANTED TO TERMINATE THE U.S. PARTICIPATION IN NAFTA, AND LATER ON HE SAID, NO, I'LL NEGOTIATE NOW THAT I'VE TALKED TO THE LEADERS IN MEXICO AND CANADA?

>> WELL, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT THE FIRST DAY OF THESE 100 DAYS WHERE THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID SOME INCONSISTENT STATEMENTS BACK-TO-BACK. HE'S BEEN DOING THAT THROUGHOUT HIS PRESIDENCY. SO IT WORRIES ME, BECAUSE I THINK HE MAY BE A LITTLE TOO FLIPPANT WITH HOW HE HANDLES THIS SITUATION. WHILE I KNOW NAFTA HAS DEVASTATED MANY COMMUNITIES, MAYBE UNWINDING NAFTA IN A WAY THAT ISN'T PRUDENT CAN DO EVEN MORE DAMAGE. THESE ARE SUPPLY CHAINS THAT HAVE BEEN INTEGRATED OVER THE LAST ALMOST 30 YEARS, AND SO IT'S GOING TO TAKE TIME AND EFFORT AND PATIENTS -- PATIENCE AND A LOT OF WORK TO REESTABLISH A MORE FAIR TRADING REGIME. I GET THE SENSE THAT THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T HAVE THE ATTENTION SPAN QUITE FRANKLY TO BE ABLE TO SIT DOWN AND HANDLE THOSE KIND OF THINGS OUT. WHEN YOU SEE HIS TWEETS AND YOU SEE HIS STATEMENTS THAT CONFLICT EACH OTHER WITHIN HOURS OF EACH OTHER, IT MAKES YOU WORRY THAT MAYBE HE'S JUST NOT THE GUY TO HANDLE THIS.

>> Woodruff: SO WE HEARD HIM IN THE CAMPAIGN SAY THAT NAFTA WAS ONE OF THE WORST DEALS EVER MADE IN THE UNITED STATES. IT SOUNDS LIKE... ARE YOU SAYING YOU'RE WORRIED HE'S NOT GOING TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THIS?

>> I'M WORRIED THAT HE MAY FOLLOW THROUGH IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T MAKE THINGS BETTER. HE MAY ACTUALLY MAKE THE PROBLEM WORSE. IF HE DOESN'T SIT DOWN AND PAY ATTENTION AND WORK THIS THE WAY IT NEEDS TO BE WORKED. WE'VE SEEN THE DEVASTATION THAT IT CAUSED, AND WE KNOW IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED, BUT IS HE THE PERSON TO SIT DOWN AND ACTUALLY FIX IT? THE FACT THAT HE DOESN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THE RAMIFICATIONS, QUITE FRANKLY EVEN THE PROCESS. HE SAID THEY ALREADY STARTED NEGOTIATING WHEN THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS YOU HAVE TO SEND A LETTER TO CONGRESS TO EVEN BEGIN THE PROCESS OF HAVING THE CONVERSATION WITHIN YOUR OWN COUNTRY, WITHIN YOUR OWN CONGRESS, WITHIN THE INDUSTRY GROUPS THAT WOULD BE AFFECTED BY IT. THAT'S A 90-DAY PROCESS BEFORE YOU EVEN START THE NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE OTHER COUNTRIES. THE FACT THAT HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT BEFORE HE MADE HIS STATEMENT IS WORRISOME TO ME THAT HE MAY ACTUALLY THROUGH TRYING TO RENEGOTIATE NAFTA, HE MAY ACTUALLY MAKE THE PROCESS WORSE.

>> Woodruff: YOU SAID A MINUTE AGO THAT YOU HEAR THESE ARGUMENTS ULTIMATELY THE U.S. WILL BENEFIT. YOU DON'T SEE THAT YET. BUT YOU HAVE SOLID DEMOCRATS, CONGRESSMAN RON KIND, FOR EXAMPLE, HE SAYS YOU UNDO NAFTA, YOU'RE GOING TO DECIMATE THE DAIRY INDUSTRY IN HIS STATE. HE SAYS HALF THE INDUSTRY WILL BE WIPED OUT IF NAFTA GOES AWAY. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO HIM?

>> THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOU NEED TO BE VERY METHODICAL AND VERY THOROUGH IN YOUR NEGOTIATIONS, IN YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH HOW YOU'RE GOING TO HANDLE ALL OF THESE SCENARIOS, WHETHER IT'S PHARMACEUTICALS, WHETHER IT'S THE DAIRY INDUSTRY, LOCAL FOOD, FOOD PROTECTION, ALL OF THESE ISSUES ARE ON THE TABLE ONCE YOU OPEN THIS THING UP, AND SO YOU NEED PEOPLE AND YOU NEED A PRESIDENT THAT'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN YOU LEAVE ONE PIECE ON THE CHESS BOARD, A LOT OF OTHER PIECES ARE GOING TO MOVE SIMULTANEOUSLY. I DON'T THINK HE QUITE UNDERSTANDS THAT. REALLY THE REALITY TO IT, JUDY, IS THAT AUTOMATION IN THE NEXT DECADE OR SO IS REALLY GOING TO BE THE 800-POUND ELEPHANT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOM THAT WE NEED TO SATISFY. THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER SHOW YOU COULD DO, BUT IT'S NOT JUST NAFTA. IT'S IN THE -- NOT JUST TRADE. THE MAIN ISSUE COMING DOWN THE PIKE IS AUTOMATION, DISPLACING WORKERS, WHETHER IT'S IN MANUFACTURING, DRIVERLESS CARS, IN THE RETAIL SECTOR, IN GROCERY STORES, AUTOMATION IS GOING TO BE THE THING DISPLACING, SO I DON'T WANT HIM... THERE'S IN PLAN IN THIS ADMINISTRATION TO BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH THAT MAIN ISSUE THAT IS REALLY GOING TO FACE MOST WORKERS IN THE AMERICAN WORKFORCE IN THE NEXT COUPLE DECADES.

>> Woodruff: REPRESENTATIVE TIM RYAN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANKS, JUDY.

>> Woodruff:

>> Woodruff: WE'LL GET A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE ON JAFTA, FROM OHIO'S REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH, LATER IN THE PROGRAM.

>> Woodruff: A POLITICAL FIGHT IS BREWING ABOUT ACCESS TO THE INTERNET. THE NEW HEAD OF THE FCC, THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION, WANTS TO CLEAR AWAY REGULATIONS ABOUT WHO CONTROLS AND POLICES THE FLOW OF CONTENT ON THE INTERNET. WILLIAM BRANGHAM EXPLAINS.

>> Brangham: WE'RE TALKING HERE ABOUT WHAT'S KNOWN AS NET NEUTRALITY, NOT THE EASIEST CONCEPT TO GRASP, SO BEAR WITH ME. ALMOST ALL OF US IN AMERICA GET OUR INTERNET ACCESS VIA ONE MAIN PROVIDER-- THESE ARE THE TELECOM AND CABLE GIANTS LIKE VERIZON, COMCAST, CHARTER, TIME WARNER-- THEY PROVIDE THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT DELIVERS THE BOUNTY OF THE WEB TO OUR HOMES AND PHONES: SITES AND APPS LIKE GOOGLE, NETFLIX, FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, YOU NAME IT. THE TELECOMS BUILD THE HIGHWAY, THE OTHERS GUYS ARE LIKE THE CARS TRAVELING THAT HIGHWAY. THE IDEA OF NET NEUTRALITY IS THAT THE TELECOMS HAVE TO TREAT THAT HIGHWAY AS AN OPEN ROAD-- THEY CAN'T PICK AND CHOOSE WHICH WEBSITES OR SERVICES GET TO YOU FASTER OR SLOWER. THE FEAR IS THAT IF THEY DO HAVE THAT POWER, THEY'LL BE TEMPTED TO FAVOR THEIR CONTENT, THEIR SITES, THEIR OWN VIDES OVER A COMPETITORS. BUT THE TELECOMS ARGUE THAT'S NOT FAIR, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO CONTROL THAT FLOW, AND BE ABLE TO CHARGE MORE FOR FASTER ACCESS. IN 2014, THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION UNDER OBAMA WANTED TO LOCK IN THESE NET NEUTRALITY RULES, BUT IT FACED INTENSE PUSHBACK BY THE INDUSTRY. THE FIGHT EVEN SPILLED INTO POP CULTURE, WITH THIS FROM HBO'S JOHN OLIVER:

>> IF WE LET CABLE COMPANIES OFFER TWO SPEEDS OF SERVICE-- THEY WON'T BE USAIN BOLT AND USAIN BOLT ON A MOTOR BIKE. THEY'LL BE USAIN BOLT AND USAIN BOLTED TO AN ANCHOR.

>> Brangham: BUT NET NEUTRALITY RULES DID PASS AND HAVE BEEN IN PLACE FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS. BUT AJIT PAI, PRESIDENT TRUMP's NEW FCC CHAIRMAN NOW WANTS TO GET RID OF THOSE RULES, ARUGING THEY'RE TOO BURDENSOME. THAT THEY STIFLE INNOVATION AND COMPETITION, AND THIS WEEK BEGAN THE PROCESS OF ROLLING THEM BACK. AND FCC COMMISSIONER AJIT PAI JOINS ME NOW. WELCOME. WELCOME TO THE "NEWSHOUR."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Brangham: SO YOU ARE NOT A FAN OF THESE NET NEUTRALITY RULES FROM A FEW YEARS AGO. WHAT IS YOUR PRINCIPLE CONCERN?

>> I FAVOR A FREE AND OPEN INTERNET, AS MOST CONSUMERS DO, MY CONCERN IS WITH THE PARTICULAR REGULATIONS THAT THE FCC ADOPTED TWO YEARS AGO. THEY ARE WHAT IS CALLED TITLE II REGULATIONS DEVELOPED IN THE 1930s TO REGULATE THE MA BELL TELEPHONE MONOPOLY. MY CONCERN IS BY IMPOSING THOSE HEAVY HANDED ECONOMIC REGULATIONS ON INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS BIG AND SMALL, WE COULD DISINCENTIVIZE COMPANIES FROM WANTING TO BUILD OUT TO LOW-INCOME PARTS OF THE COUNTRY AND RURAL AND URBAN AREAS, FOR EXAMPLE. THAT'S SOMETHING NOBODY WOULD BENEFIT FROM.

>> Brangham: IS THERE EVIDENCE THESE RULES HAVE DISINCENTIVIZED THOSE COMPANIES? BUSINESSES ARE DOING VERY WELL. THEY'RE SPENDING BILLIONS ON THE SPECTRUM.

>> THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT INVESTMENT AND INFRASTRUCTURE HAS GONE DOWN SINCE THE ADOPTION OF THESE RULES. THERE IS A STUDY BY A HIGHLY RESPECTED ECONOMIST THAT SAYS AMONG THE TOP 12 INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS IN TERMS OF SIZE, INVESTMENT IS DOWN BY 5.6% OR SEVERAL BILLION OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS, AND AMONGST SMALLER PROVIDERS, LITERALLY THIS WEEK, 22 INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS WITH 1,000 CUSTOMERS OR LESS TOLD US THESE TITLE TWO REGULATIONS HAVE KEPT THEM FROM GETTING THE FINANCING THEY NEED TO BUILD OUT THEIR NETWORKS, AND AS THEY PUT IT, THESE NET NEUTRALITY REGULATIONS HANG LIKE A BLACK CLOUD OVER OUR BUSINESSES. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO GOING FORWARD IS FIGURE OUT A WAY THAT WE CAN PRESERVE THAT FREE AND OPEN INTERNET AND PRESERVE THAT INCENTIVE TO INVEST IN THE NETWORK THAT WILL BENEFIT MORE CONSUMERS GOING FORWARD.

>> Brangham: THERE IS FACEBOOK, GOOGLE, INSTAGRAM, THEY HAVE SAID THESE RULES ARE NOT A HINDRANCE TO US. WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO THRIVE AND SURVIVE UNDER THESE RULES, DON'T CHANGE THEM. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THEM WHEN THEY ARGUE THIS TO YOU?

>> TWO DIFFERENT POINTS. IF YOU LOOK CAREFULLY, A LOT OF THOSE COMPANIES DON'T SAY THEY LIKE TITLE II SPECIFICALLY, THESE PARTICULAR REGULATIONS. THEY SAY THEY CARE ABOUT THE PRINCIPLES OF A FREE AND OPEN INTERNET. SO I THINK THERE IS A DECENT AMOUNT OF COMMON GROUND. THERE IT'S MATTER OF PROVIDING THE APPROPRIATE LEGAL FRAMEWORK TO REACH THAT COMMON GROUND. THE SECOND POINT IS THESE COMPANIES ARE THE BEST EVIDENCE OF THE SUCCESS OF THE LIGHT-TOUCH REGULATORY FRAMEWORK THAT ORIGINATED IN THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION, AND THAT'S SOMETHING I FAVOR. FROM THE DAWN OF THE COMMERCIAL INTERNET IN THE 1990s UNTIL 2015, WE HAD LIGHT-TOUCH REGULATION, THE AGENCY OR THE COUNTRY MONITORED THE MARKET, LET IT DEVELOP ORGANICALLY, AND THEN TOOK TARGETED ACTION IF NECESSARY IF THRUZ THERE WAS AN EXAMPLE OF ANTI-COMPETITIVE CONDUCT. IT'S UNDER THAT FRAMEWORK THAT COMPANIES LIKE FACEBOOK AND NETFLIX WERE ABLE TO BECOME GLOBALLY-KNOWN NAMES. THAT'S THE SUCCESS WE WANT TO PROMOTE IN THE FUTURE WITH LIGHT-TOUCH.

>> Brangham: ONE ISSUE IS WHETHER WE TREAT BROAD BAND LIKE A UTILITY. THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT YOU AS THE PROVIDER ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PUT YOUR FINGER ON THE SCALE AND SLOW ONE PERSON DOWN OR SPEED SOMEONE ELSE UP. LO ET CETERA POSE A HYPOTHETICAL. SAY COMCAST CREATED A NEW TV SERIES THAT COMPLETED WITH A NETFLIX SERIES VERY SIMILARLY. IF THESE RULES GO AWAY, HOW IS THERE NOT AN INCREDIBLE INCENTIVE FOR COMCAST TO SLOW NETFLIX DOWN COMING INTO MY HOUSE AND MAKE THEIR VIDEO, THE COMCAST VIDEO, VERY ROBUST?

>> SO UNDER THAT HYPOTHETICAL, ONE THING THAT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER IS THAT IT IS A HYPOTHETICAL. WE DON'T SEE EVIDENCE OF THAT HAPPENING IN THE MARKETPLACE ON A WIDESPREAD LEVEL.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN SOME EXAMPLES OF I.S.P.s BLOCKING CERTAIN THINGS, GOOGLE WALLET WAS BLOCKED, SKYPE WAS BLOCKED, ONE CANADIAN TELECOM BLOCKED A PRO LABOR SITE. IT'S IN THE LIKE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN.

>> THEY'RE ISOLATED CASES, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE FCC'S OWN RECORDS, THERE ARE ONLY SCATTERED ANECDOTES TO SUPPORT THIS. IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY PREEMPTIVE REGULATION AT ALL 4,462 INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS, YOU SHOULD HAVE PRETTY CONCRETE EVIDENCE OF AN OVERWHELMING MARKET FAILURE. BUT SECONDLY, THE OTHER ARGUMENT I WOULD MAKE IS THE HYPOTHETICAL IS A CLASSIC QUESTION OF COMPETITION AND CONSUMER PROTECTION LAW.

>> Brangham: SO YOU WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE TELLING CONSUMERS YOU CAN TRUST THE AGENCIES TO NOT DO THAT, TO NOT PUT THE FINGER ON THE SCALE AND PROMOTE THEIR STUFF AT THE EXPENSE OF SOMEONE ELSE'S?

>> NOT AT ALL. AS GOVERNMENT REGULATOR, YOU DON'T PUT FAITH IN ANY SECTOR OF THE ECONOMY. WE PUT OUR FAITH IN THE RULE OF LAW, WHICH INCLUDES ANTI-TRUST LAW AND CONSUMER PROTECTION LAW, IS BASICALLY ADMINISTERED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AND STATE AGENCIES THAT ARE CHARGED WITH EXECUTING THAT LAW.

>> Brangham: BACK WHEN THE FCC WAS FIRST TALKING ABOUT CHANGING THESE RULES A FEW YEARS AGO, THERE WAS SOMETHING LIKE FOUR MILLION COMMENTS POSTED. THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THOSE WERE PEOPLE SAYING, WE WANT NET NEUTRALITY. WE WANT TO KNOW THAT THESE PROTECTIONS ARE IN PLACE. DOES THAT EVIDENCE NOT SWAY YOU THAT MAYBE THESE RULES SHOULD NOT BE DISMANTLED?

>> I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A WIDE VARIETY OF PUBLIC INTEREST IN THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, BUT WHEN I MEET WITH CONSUMERS AND I'VE MET WITH FOLKS FROM KALAMAZOO MICHIGAN DOWN TO MISSISSIPPI, FROM BARROW, ALASKA, TO NEBRASKA, WHAT THEY TELL ME IS THAT THE CONCERN IS NOT THAT THEIR INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER IS BLOCKING LAWFUL TRAFFIC OR DOING SOMETHING LIKE, THAT THEY WANT MORE COMPETITION. THEY WANT BETTER, AND FASTER AND CHEAPER INTERNET.

>> Woodruff: ALL RIGHT, FCC CMMISSIONER AJIT PAI, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

>> Woodruff: STAY WITH US, COMING UP ON THE NEWSHOUR: MAKING SENSE OF RISING HEALTH CARE COSTS. OHIO GOVERNOR AND FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE JOHN KASICH DISCUSSES A DIVIDED AMERICA. AND A MIME GIVES HIS BRIEF BUT SPECTACULAR TAKE ON SILENCE. BUT FIRST, WE TAKE A LOOK AT THE FOREIGN POLICY ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND SETBACKS DURING THE FIRST 100 DAYS OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. HARI SREENIVASAN WILL BRING US TWO VIEWPOINTS, BUT WE BEGIN WITH THIS REPORT FROM CORRESPONDENT MARGARET WARNER.

>> FROM THIS DAY FORWARD, IT'S GOING TO BE ONLY AMERICA FIRST.

>> Warner: THAT MANTRA TYPIFIED PRESIDENT TRUMP'S WORLD VIEW AS A CANDIDATE, AND AS A NEWLY INAUGURATED PRESIDENT.

>> WE WILL SEEK FRIENDSHIP AND GOODWILL WITH THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD, BUT WE DO SO WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT IS THE RIGHT OF ALL NATIONS TO PUT THEIR OWN INTERESTS FIRST.

>> Warner: THE SLOGAN WAS A SIGNAL THAT MR. TRUMP PLANNED TO FOCUS HIS PRESIDENCY ON IMPROVING AMERICANS' ECONOMIC PROSPECTS HERE AT HOME, NOT GETTING EMBROILED IN MESSY CONFLICTS OVERSEAS. BUT IN HIS FIRST 100 DAYS, GLOBAL CRISES HAVE CHALLENGED MR. TRUMP WITH FREQUENT, AND TREACHEROUS, TESTS. ONE OF MR. TRUMP'S EARLY DILEMMAS? AN APRIL 4th SARIN GAS ATTACK THAT KILLED MORE THAN 80 SYRIAN CIVILIANS IN A TOWN HELD BY OPPONENTS OF PRESIDENT BASHAR ASSAD. THE PRESIDENT'S RESPONSE: ON APRIL 7th, 59 TOMAHAWK MISSILES WERE FIRED ON A REGIME AIR BASE IDENTIFIED AS THE CHEMICAL ATTACK'S LAUNCH SITE. IT WAS THE FIRST DIRECT AMERICAN ASSAULT ON THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT IN THE COUNTRY'S SIX-YEAR CIVIL WAR.

>> THAT'S A BUTCHER. SO, I FELT WE HAD TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

>> Warner: MR. TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN HOPES FOR A FRESH START WITH RUSSIA, HAD ALREADY DIMMED AMID INVESTIGATIONS INTO MOSCOW'S ALLEGED ELECTION MEDDLING. THE GAS ATTACK BY ITS ALLY, ASSAD, INFLAMED MATTERS FURTHER, PROMPTING TOUGH WORDS FROM U.N. AMBASSADOR, NIKKI HALEY.

>> ASSAD HAS NO INCENTIVE TO STOP USING CHEMICAL WEAPONS AS LONG AS RUSSIA CONTINUES TO PROTECT HIS REGIME FROM CONSEQUENCES.

>> Warner: SECRETARY OF STATE REX TILLERSON DID GO TO MOSCOW A FEW DAYS LATER. BUT AFTER A TWO-HOUR MEETING WITH PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN, HE EMERGED TO SAY RELATIONS WERE "AT A LOW POINT." MR. TRUMP ALSO HAS SHIFTED ON AMERICA'S COMMITMENT TO THE "NATO" ALLIANCE, WHICH DERIDED DURING THE CAMPAIGN. BUT ON APRIL 12, STANDING WITH NATO'S SECRETARY GENERAL, HE HAD THIS TO SAY:

>> I SAID IT WAS OBSOLETE; IT'S NO LONGER OBSOLETE.

>> Warner: PERHAPS THE GRAVEST CHALLENGE THRUST ON MR. TRUMP CAME FROM NORTH KOREA'S FEBRUARY 12 FIRING OF AN INTERMEDIATE RANGE BALLISTIC MISSILE, FOLLOWED BY FIVE OTHERS AND APPARENT PREPARATIONS FOR A SIXTH NUCLEAR TEST. NORTH KOREA'S AGGRESSIVE PURSUIT OF THESE WEAPONS HAS BEDEVILED THE PRESIDENT'S THREE PREDECESSORS, BUT IT'S BECOME TOO URGENT TO IGNORE.

>> NORTH KOREA IS A BIG WORLD PROBLEM AND IT'S A PROBLEM WE HAVE TO FINALLY SOLVE. PEOPLE PUT BLINDFOLDS ON FOR DECADES AND NOW IT'S TIME TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

>> Warner: AFTER MEETING AT HIS FLORIDA ESTATE WITH CHINESE PRESIDENT XI JINPING, THE PRESIDENT IS COUNTING ON BEIJING TO PRESSURE PYONGYANG TO ABIDE BY U.N. RESOLUTIONS. STILL, WASHINGTON HAS MADE CLEAR ALL ITS OPTIONS ARE ON THE TABLE, MOVING AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER GROUP TO THE WATERS OFF THE KOREAN PENINSULA, AND DEPLOYING AN ANTI-MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEM TO SOUTH KOREA. TWO OTHER MILITARY FRONTS REMAIN ACTIVE AS WELL: IN THE FIGHT AGAINST ISIS, MR. TRUMP HAS ADDED MORE FORCES IN SYRIA, AND KEPT UP AIR STRIKES THERE AND IN IRAQ. AND IN AFGHANISTAN, AS THE TALIBAN GAINS GROUND, THE U.S. TARGETED ISIS CAVES AND TUNNELS THIS MONTH WITH THE SO-CALLED "MOTHER OF ALL BOMBS." FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR, I'M MARGARET WARNER.

>> Sreenivasan: TO DIG DEEPER INTO THE PRESIDENT'S OVERSEAS RECORD TO DATE, I'M JOINED BY JAMES CARAFANO. HE'S CURRENTLY VICE PRESIDENT AT THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION. HE HAD A 25 YEAR CAREER IN THE ARMY AND WRITES EXTENSIVELY ABOUT U.S. FOREIGN POLICY. AND DAVID ROTHKOPF IS THE C.E.O. AND EDITOR OF "FOREIGN POLICY" MAGAZINE AND THE AUTHOR OF "NATIONAL INSECURITY: AMERICAN LEADERSHIP IN AN AGE OF FEAR." JAMES CARAFANO, LET ME START WITH YOU. THE PRESIDENT HAS PIVOTED FROM CAMPAIGN MODE CERTAINLY TOWARD THE CENTER ON A LOT OF DIFFERENT ISSUES. WHILE HE WAS CAMPAIGNING, HE REPEATEDLY CRITICIZED PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR EVEN THE POSSIBILITY OF TAKING MILITARY ACTION WITH SYRIA, BUT HERE HE IS AND HE SENDS 59 THOM HAWK MISSILES IN. IS THIS A ONE-OFF?

>> I THINK IT IS. I THINK THERE'S NOTHING MORE WORTHLESS THAN 100 DAYS' MEASUREMENT IN FOREIGN POLICY. YOU JUMP INTO FOREIGN POLICY WHERE THINGS ARE, SO YOU DON'T START WITH A FRESH START, AND MANY, MANY ISSUES, SYRIA, NORTH KOREA, ALMOST EVERY BIG FOREIGN POLICY ISSUE ISN'T GOING TO GET RESOLVED IN 100 DAY. 100 DAYS TELLS YOU NOTHING. BUT I THINK THERE ARE INDICATIONS THAT THE PRESIDENT ISN'T INTERESTED IN AN AGGRESSIVE FOREIGN POLICY THAT COULD OVEREXTEND AND CREATE HIGH RISK. HE'S NOT INTERESTED IN REGIME CHANGE OR NATION BUILDING. BUT HE IS INTERESTED IN PROTECTING U.S. INTERESTS IN KEY PARTS OF THE WORLD, PARTICULARLY THE MIDDLE EAST, WESTERN EUROPE AND ASIA. AND IN THE MIDDLE EAST, THE ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING THE STABILIZE THE REFUGEE POPULATION, STABILIZE IRAQ, DEFEAT ISIS AND AL QAEDA, AND ASSAD IN A SENSE WAS DESTABILIZING THE REGION AND EXPANDING THE WAR WITH A CHEMICAL WEAPONS ATTACK SOME THE 59 CRUISE MISSILES WERE A PRETTY SERIOUS MESSAGE TO PRESIDENT ASSAD THAT YOU ARE CONFLICTING WITH OUR INTERESTS AND HERE'S A WARNING TO BACK OFF.

>> Woodruff:>> Sreenivasan: I GR POINT THAT 100 DAYS IS NOT A LOT OF TIME, BUT CANDIDATES ARE ALSO THE BLAME FOR MAKING PROMISES THEY CAN'T KEEP. THAT SAID, IF THIS IS A ONE-OFF, IS THERE A CONSISTENT AND COHESIVE TRUMP DOCTRINE OF FOREIGN POLICY THAT'S EMERGED IN THESE 100 DAYS FOR YOU?

>> WELL, THERE IS, AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE I WORKED ON THE PRESIDENTIAL TRANSITION TEAM AND TALKED TO THE CANDIDATE DURING CANDIDATE BRIEFINGS AND WORKED WITH AMBASSADORS DURING BRIEFINGS AT THE CONVENTION IN CLEVELAND. SO I'VE BEEN WATCHING THESE GUYS A LONG TIME, AND THERE IS A FOCUS. AND THERE ARE THREE REGIONS OF THE WORLD THAT ARE VITALLY IMPORTANT TO THE UNITED STATES WHERE PEACE AND STABILITY IS REALLY IMPORTANT, WESTERN EUROPE, ASIA AND THE MIDDLE EAST, AND THE ADMINISTRATION IS PRIMARILY FOCUSED ON RETURNING PEACE AND STABILITY TO THOSE THREE AREAS AND DEALING WITH THE KIND OF CHALLENGES THAT ARE ON EVERYONE'S MIND. RUSSIA IS A GREAT DESTABILIZING FORCE. IN THE MIDDLE EAST IT'S ISIS AND AL QAEDA. IN ASIA IT'S THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CHINA AND NORTH KOREA. THAT'S WHERE THE ADMINISTRATION IS PUTTING ITS FOCUS.

>> Woodruff:>> Sreenivasan: DAVD ROTHKOPF, JAMES OUTLINED THE FOREIGN POLICY THAT SEEMS TO BE FAIRLY CLEAR. IS THAT CLEAR FOR SOMEBODY WHO DIDN'T HELP PRESIDENT TRUMP WRITE THIS?

>> NO. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING CLEAR ABOUT TRUMP'S FOREIGN POLICY. IN FACT, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING LIKE A POLICY ABOUT TRUMP FOREIGN POLICY. IT HAS BEEN MARKED BY REVERSALS. FIRST HE WAS AGAINST THE ONE CHINA POLICY, THEN HE WAS FOR IT. YESTERDAY MORNING HE WAS AGAINST NAFTA, THEN HE WAS FOR IT. HE WAS PRO RUSSIA, THEN HE HAS GOTTEN A LITTLE BIT COOLER ON RUSSIA. BUT SECONDLY, THERE HAVE BEEN A WHOLE SERIES OF INCONSISTENCIES IN HIS POLICY. IS HE CONCERNED ABOUT EUROPE, THE CONCERN FOR RIGHT-WING NATIONALISTS LIKE MARINE LE PEN OR THE SUPPORT FOR BREXIT SUGGESTS HE'S NOT CLEAR ON WHAT IS IN THE INTERESTS OF EUROPE OR THE UNITED STATES THERE. THE SYRIA STRIKE WHILE ENCOURAGING ON SOME LEVELS ACTUALLY DOES NOT SEEM TO BE IN THE CONTEXT OF ANY KIND OF COHERENT POLICY. YOU DO SEE RATCHETING UP ELSEWHERE. WE'VE ALSO SEEN HIM EMBRACE DICTATORS AND AUTHORITARIANS FROM SISI IN EGYPT TO THE ERDOGAN REGIME, WHERE HE CALLED HIM TO CONGRATULATE HIM ON HIS UNDERMINING ON DEMOCRACY. IN TERMS OF NORTH KOREA, AGAIN, THERE'S BEEN BLUSTER. THERE'S ALSO BE INCOHERENCE. HE HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO LOCATE WHERE HIS CARRIER BATTLE GROUPS HAVE BEEN. HE WAS INSTRUCTED AS HE HIMSELF SAID BY THE CHINESE LEADER ON THE NUANCES OF ALL OF THIS, AND, OF COURSE, ON TOP OF THAT, YOU HAVE THE BLEMISH, AND THIS VERY SERIOUS BLEMISH, OF APPOINTING A NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER WHO LASTED 24 DAYS IN OFFICE AND MAY WELL WIND UP IN JAIL, APPOINTING STEVE BANNON WHO SUPPORTED WHITE SUPREMACIST VIEWS TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL AND ASKING HIM TO STEP DOWN, AND NOT HAVING VIRTUALLY ANY SENIOR POSITIONS AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT OR THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT FILLED RIGHT NOW.

>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT, I WON'T ACCUSE YOU OF NOT HAVING A LAUNDRY LIST PREPARED. BUT I THINK SOMETHING YOU DAVID, AND JIM, CAN AGREE ON, FOREIGN POLICY IS COMPLEX WHEN YOU REQUIRE ALLIES. THE MISSILE STRIKE INTO SYRIA, SENDING THE CARRIER GROUP TO THE KOREAN PENINSULA, THE LARGEST NON-NUCLEAR BOMB INTO AFGHANISTAN, WHAT'S THE MESSAGE THAT SENDS TO OUR ALLIES AND ADVERSARIES? DAVID?

>> I THINK IN THE CONTEXT OF A COHERENT POLICY, THEY MIGHT SEND A MESSAGE THAT WE'RE LIKELY TO BE MORE FORCEFUL. THE PROBLEM IS THAT IF YOU STRIKE SYRIA AND THEN YOU DON'T FOLLOW UP OR YOU STRIKE SYRIA AND THEN YOU PLAY FTSE WITH THE RUSSIANS OR YOU SEND A CARRIER BAT 8 GROUP BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS OR YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO TO FOLLOW UP, THEN IT SENDS THE MESSAGE THAT'S MORE LIKE BLUSTER. IT'S A LITTLE MORE LIKE TRUMP ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL TALKING BIG BUT NOT REALLY HAVING A CLEAR PLAN ABOUT HOW TO DELIVER.

>> Sreenivasan: JAMES CARAFANO, I DON'T EXPECT ANY PRESIDENT TO KNOWING EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYTHING, BUT AS DAVID POINTS OUT, WHEN THE PRESIDENT HAS A MEETING WITH XI JINPING, HE'S ACTUALLY BEING SCHOOLED ON NORTH KOREA FROM THE CHINESE PRESIDENT OR ANGELA MERKEL IS TELLING HIM HE CANNOT HAVE UNILATERAL DEALS WITH A E.U. MEMBER NATION. WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT THE PEOPLE HE HAS SURROUNDED HIMSELF WITH WHO SHOULD BE BRIEFING HIM PERHAPS A LOT BETTER WHEN HE WALKS INTO THESE MEETINGS?

>> I THINK COMMENTARY, THE UNSERIOUS COMMENTARY ANALYSIS WE'VE HAD WITH THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY. IF YOU WANT THE FOCUS ON A WHOLE BUNCH OF POINTS TO PICK UP, WHICH ARE KIND OF REFLECT THE SHOWMAN AND THE PUBLIC DISCOURSE, THAT'S FINE, BUT IT IGNORES KIND OF THE SERIOUS PART OF THE PRESIDENT. THE SHOWMAN PART AND THE SERIOUS PART. WHEN THE PRESIDENT DOES THE SERIOUS PART, HE ACTS VERY SERIOUS. TWO DATA POINTS ON. THIS WE GET AN AVERAGE OF ABOUT FIVE FOREIGN DELEGATIONS A DAY VISITING THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION SINCE THE ELECTION. I'VE TALKED TO EVERY MINISTER WHO HAS BEEN IN TOWN. I'VE TALKED TO HEADS OF GOVERNMENT LIKE PRESIDENT SISI. THEY HAVE MET WITH THE PRESIDENT. UNIFORMLY THEY COME BACK, AND THESE ARE ALLIES ACROSS THE MIDDLE EAST AND ASIA, AND THEY THINK THIS IS A SERIOUS ADMINISTRATION. THEY DO FEEL REASSURED ON THAT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE TEAM HE HAS AROUND HIM, HR McMASTER, KELLY, TILLERSON, VICE PRESIDENT PENCE, AMBASSADOR HALEY, IT'S ACTUALLY A REALLY, REALLY GOOD TEAM, AND IT'S A TEAM THAT WORKS TOGETHER. MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT'S A TEAM THE PRESIDENT TAKES SERIOUSLY AND WORKS. WITH THEY HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE PRESIDENT, AS WELL.

>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT, JAMES CARAFANO, DAVID ROTHKOPF, WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK THE TRY TO FINISH THIS. THIS COULD TAKE ALL SHOW. THANK YOU.

>> Woodruff: ONE OF THE BIG BATTLES OVER THE PRESIDENT'S FIRST 100 DAYS, AND REMAINS UNRESOLVED, IS THE FATE OF OBAMACARE. BUT ONE THING THAT MANY EXPERTS ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM AGREE ON IS THAT HEALTH CARE IN AMERICA OFTEN COSTS TOO MUCH. A NEW BOOK LOOKS AT THE MULTIPLE CAUSES OF THIS AND CALLS THE WHOLE THING "AN AMERICAN SICKNESS." IT'S THE FOCUS OF OUR REPORT FROM ECONOMICS CORRESPONDENT, PAUL SOLMAN, PART OF HIS WEEKLY SERIES, "MAKING SENSE."

>> IF YOU HAVE HIGH BLOOD SUGAR, ASK YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT FARXIGA.

>> DIARRHEA AND ABDOMINAL PAIN!

>> Reporter: FEEL LIKE YOU'RE SEEING MORE PRESCRIPTION DRUGS ADS LATELY? WELL, YOU ARE.

>> SIDE EFFECTS INCLUDING DEHYDRATION, SWELLING, BRUISING AND OR DIARRHEA, NUMBNESS, GAS AND RUNNY NOSE.

>> Reporter: SPENDING ON PHARMACEUTICAL ADS IS UP 62% SINCE 2012, IN THE WORLD'S ONLY COUNTRY, BESIDES NEW ZEALAND, TO EVEN ALLOW TV DRUG ADVERTISING.

>> LINZESS WORKS DIFFERENTLY FROM LAXATIVES.

>> Reporter: PILLS FOR MILLIONS OF US...

>> IT CAN HELP RELIEVE YOUR BELLY PAIN.

>> Reporter: PILLS FOR FAR FEWER...

>> A CIRCADIAN RHYTHM DISORDER.

>> Reporter: BUT REGARDLESS, THE DRUG COMPANIES CHARGE PRETTY MUCH WHATEVER THEY WANT. IN FACT, SAYS ELISABETH ROSENTHAL...

>> WHEN ONE MANUFACTURER PUTS A PRICE UP TO A NEW HIGH LEVEL, EVERYONE ELSE JUST SAYS, "OH, LOOK! HE GOT AWAY WITH IT." AND LIFTS THEIR PRICES UP TO THAT LEVEL TOO.

>> Reporter: A JOURNALIST AND FORMER PRACTICING PHYSICIAN, SHE'S NOW EDITOR IN CHIEF OF "KAISER HEALTH NEWS," ROSENTHAL HAS WRITTEN A NEW BOOK, "AN AMERICAN SICKNESS," CHRONICLING HOW AND WHY AMERICAN HEALTH CARE COSTS ARE BY FAR THE HIGHEST IN THE WORLD. IT BOILS DOWN TO ONE BASIC TRUTH:

>> PRICES WILL RISE TO WHATEVER THE MARKET WILL BEAR.

>> Reporter: AND WHILE THE HEALTH CARE MARKET IN THE U.S. ISN'T EXACTLY A FREE MARKET, IT'S MARKET-DRIVEN ENOUGH TO PUSH PROFITS ABOVE ALL, AND THUS THE PRICES WE ALL WIND UP PAYING. AND SO, AS A CONSEQUENCE, WE SPEND 20% OF OUR ENTIRE G.D.P. OUR ENTIRE ECONOMIC OUTPUT EVERY YEAR ON HEALTH CARE. AND IT'S BEEN GOING UP.

>> WE SPEND TWO OR THREE TIMES WHAT OTHER COUNTRIES DO ON HEALTHCARE WITHOUT GETTING BETTER RESULTS, WHICH IS THE KEY HERE. WE'RE NOT GETTING A GOOD DEAL FOR ALL THE MONEY WE SPEND.

>> Reporter: WE'RE NOT LIVING LONGER?

>> WE'RE NOT LIVING LONGER. I THINK ONE OF THE MOST DAMNING STUDIES I'VE SEEN RECENTLY THAT WAS THAT PEOPLE WITH CYSTIC FIBROSIS WHICH IS A VERY SERIOUS PRIMARILY LUNG DISEASE, LIVE LONGER IN CANADA THAN THEY DO IN THE U.S. AND THIS IS A TREATMENT-HEAVY DISEASE WITH A LOT OF TECHNOLOGY, NEW MEDICINES AND WE LIKE TO THINK AT LEAST WE DO THAT BETTER...

>> Reporter: YES, YES.

>> ...THAN EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

>> Reporter: I THOUGHT THAT. WE DON'T, BUT WE SURE PAY MORE FOR IT. WHY? BECAUSE OF WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR, SAYS ROSENTHAL, BUT ALSO BECAUSE...

>> AROUND THE WORLD, THERE ARE VERY FEW DEVELOPED PLACES, PERHAPS NONE, THAT HAVE NO MECHANISM FOR SOME KIND OF PRICE CONTROL.

>> Reporter: REALLY?

>> I THINK WE'RE PRETTY UNIQUE IN THAT. OTHER COUNTRIES WILL SAY, HERE'S THE MAXIMUM PRICE. GO AHEAD AND COMPETE BELOW THAT. AND IN OTHER COUNTRIES, THERE'S POLICY THAT YOU CAN CHARGE A LOT WHEN YOU HAVE A WONDERFUL NEW TECHNOLOGY. BUT AS IT GETS OLDER, THAT PRICE HAS TO KEEP COMING DOWN. AND WHAT WE SEE IN THE UNITED STATES, PRETTY MUCH UNIQUELY, IS, AS TECHNOLOGIES GET OLDER, SOMETIMES THE PRICE CAN GO UP. AND CAN GO UP A LOT.

>> Reporter: CASE IN POINT: M.R.I. SCANS, A NOW-VENERABLE PROCEDURE WHICH CAN STILL COST THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

>> IN JAPAN, THAT SAME TEST WOULD COST 100 TO $150. BECAUSE IN JAPAN THOSE PRICES HAVE TO GO DOWN OVER TIME. YOU CAN'T SAY, "WOW. THIS WAS A GREAT NEW TECHNOLOGY 30 YEARS AGO. AND SO WE'RE GOING TO RAISE THE PRICE BECAUSE IT'S EVEN GREATER NOW." IT'S NOT. IT'S BASICALLY THE SAME.

>> Reporter: OR CONSIDER GLEEVEC, A BREAKTHROUGH CANCER DRUG WHEN IT WAS APPROVED BY THE F.D.A. IN 2001.

>> 15 YEARS LATER, THE PRICE IS FOUR TIMES WHAT IT WAS WHEN IT CAME ON THE MARKET.

>> Reporter: $120,000 A YEAR, DESPITE SO-CALLED "COPYCAT" GLEEVECS AND EVEN OFF-PATENT GENERIC VERSIONS. SO HOW COME?

>> WE'RE STUCK BUYING AMERICAN, EVEN THOUGH THE PRICE OF PHARMACEUTICALS IN OTHER COUNTRIES IS A THIRD TO A HALF OF WHAT WE PAY HERE. AND SOMETIMES, WAY LESS. THERE'S ONE WONDERFUL STORY IN THE BOOK ABOUT AN ONCOLOGIST, DR. JOHN SIEBEL, WHO, HIS GRANDKIDS HAD PINWORM, YOU KNOW?

>> Reporter: PINWORM?

>> PINWORM. IT'S A LITTLE INFECTION THAT KIDS GET, THE DRUG FOR THAT WHICH IS CALLED ALBENDAZOLE. IN THE REST OF THE WORLD, COSTS PENNIES. AND IT USED TO COST PENNIES HERE TOO BUT WHEN HE WENT ONLINE TO CHECK OUT THE PRESCRIPTION, IT COST SOMETHING LIKE $5 A PILL. SO HE ORDERED IT FROM CANADA.

>> Reporter: AND IT WAS LEGAL TO DO THAT?

>> IT'S TECHNICALLY ILLEGAL.

>> Reporter: SO YOU'RE OUTING HIM HERE? IN THE BOOK I MEAN AND NOW HERE ON TELEVISION?

>> I AM. BUT I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SO OUTRAGED RIGHT NOW. YOU KNOW, HE'S NOT A CRIMINAL NORMALLY. BUT HE'S JUST LIKE, "THIS IS EXTORTION. I'M NOT GOING TO PAY".

>> Reporter: EXTORTION BECAUSE WE DON'T ALLOW FOREIGN COMPETITION, DO ALLOW HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS TO CONSOLIDATE, FROM EVER-BIGGER PHARMA TO EVER- BIGGER HOSPITALS.

>> IN THE 80ND 90'S IS, THERE WAS CONSOLIDATION OF HOSPITALS. AND A LOT OF THOSE IN THE EARLY PHASES WERE ABOUT EFFICIENCY. BUT AT A CERTAIN POINT, CONSOLIDATION IN LOCAL MARKETS BECOMES EFFECTIVELY MONOPOLY.

>> Reporter: AND, THIS IS THE CLASSIC DILEMMA OF MERGERS AND ACQUISITIONS, RIGHT?

>> EXACTLY.

>> Reporter: YOU MERGE OR ACQUIRE ANOTHER COMPANY BECAUSE YOU WILL THEN HAVE MARKET POWER TO BUY THINGS IN BULK AND THEREFORE MORE CHEAPLY AND YOU WON'T BE REPEATING THE THINGS THAT YOU EACH INDIVIDUALLY WERE DOING.

>> RIGHT.

>> Reporter: BUT THEN, IF THERE ARE NO COMPETITORS LEFT, YOU CAN CHARGE WHATEVER YOU WANT.

>> RIGHT. AND WE HAVE REACHED THE LEVEL OF CONSOLIDATION IN MANY MARKETS IN HEALTHCARE WHERE THERE ISN'T EFFECTIVELY COMPETITION.

>> Reporter: AND AS PROVIDERS CONSOLIDATE, SO DO PAYERS. THERE ARE NOW JUST FIVE MEGA HEALTH INSURERS, AND ONLY THAT MANY BECAUSE JUDGES JUST BLOCKED ANTHEM'S $48 BILLION DEAL TO BUY CIGNA, AETNA'S $37 BILLION BID FOR HUMANA. YES, INSURERS HAVE AN INTEREST IN PAYING AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. BUT THAT INTEREST HAS EVOLVED INTO A NIGHTMARE CAT-AND-MOUSE GAME BETWEEN INSURERS AND PROVIDERS. IN ROSENTHAL'S BOOK, IT'S ONE OF THE RULES OF WHAT SHE CALLS THE DYSFUNCTIONAL MEDICAL MARKET.

>> THERE ARE NO STANDARDS FOR BILLING. THERE'S MONEY TO BE MADE IN BILLING FOR ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING.

>> Reporter: AH. SO, THIS IS WHEN YOU GET CHARGED FOR IT EVEN IF THE DOCTOR ONLY SAYS, "HI. HOW YOU DOING? SEE YOU LATER."

>> BILLING AND COLLECTIONS BECAME AN INDUSTRY. WE STARTED USING CODES FOR MEDICAL BILLING AND THAT HAS SPAWNED THIS CRAZY, CRAZY INDUSTRY.

>> SO THEY ACTUALLY TAKE EVERY LITTLE SERVICE YOUR DOCTOR DID, THEY TAKE ALL THOSE LITTLE THINGS.

>> Reporter: THE KHAN ACADEMY TRIES TO BREAK IT ALL DOWN, IN A 12-MINUTE ONLINE TUTORIAL THAT, AS ROSENTHAL POINTS OUT, IS FIVE MINUTES LONGER THAN ITS VIDEO EXPLAINING NEWTON'S SECOND LAW OF MOTION.

>> IT'S ENDLESSLY COMPLEX, SO THAT NOW THERE ARE CODING DEGREES AND CODING SPECIALISTS AND PROFESSORS OF CODING. THE INSURERS HAVE CODERS TO MAKE SURE THE HOSPITALS ARE CODING CORRECTLY, THE DOCTORS LEARN CODING SO THEY CAN MAKE SURE THEIR OFFICE WILL GET THE MONEY THEY DESERVE FOR WHAT THEY'VE DONE.

>> Reporter: BUT ISN'T INSURANCE THE PROBLEM HERE? SINCE WE'RE NOT PAYING FOR THINGS OURSELVES, WE DON'T CARE WHAT THE DRUGS COST, WHAT THE PROCEDURES COST?

>> WELL, WHEN INSURANCE WAS COVERING EVERYTHING, NO ONE CARED. EVERYONE WAS PRICE INSENSITIVE.

>> Reporter: SO WE SHOULD HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME.

>> SKIN IN THE GAME HAS WORKED IN OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE PRICES ARE CONTROLLED. BUT A 10% CO-PAYMENT ON AN M.R.I. THAT'S BILLED FOR $10,000, YOUR CO-PAYMENT IS $1,000. AND WE'RE NO LONGER TALKING SKIN IN THE GAME, WE'RE TALKING, I LIKE TO SAY, A KIDNEY IN THE GAME, YOU KNOW.

>> Reporter: OR YOU'RE GETTING SKINNED.

>> RIGHT.

>> Reporter: LAST QUESTION. WE SPEND ABOUT $3 TRILLION ON HEALTH CARE IN THE COUNTRY. IF WE RATIONALIZED THE SYSTEM SO THAT IT WAS NO MORE EXPENSIVE GIVEN THE SAME LEVEL OF OUTCOME AS SAY GERMANY, WE'D SHAVE A TRILLION OR TWO OFF THE NUMBER, RIGHT?

>> AT THIS POINT, EVEN IF WE STOPPED GOING UP, IT WOULD BE A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT. START TURNING THE SHIP AROUND, GET BACK TO $2.5 TRILLION. THAT WOULD STILL BE MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE SPENDS PER CAPITA.

>> Reporter: BUT THAT'S A HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS THAT WOULDN'T GO TO DOCTORS, HOSPITALS, INSURERS, INVESTORS, MEDICAL DEVICE MANUFACTURERS.

>> YEAH, SOMEBODY'S GOT TO TAKE THE HIT. BUT RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW I THINK A LOT OF THE POLITICAL PEOPLE, THE CONGRESSMEN, THE SENATORS ARE RESPONDING TO LOBBYING FROM PHARMA, FROM THE HOSPITAL INDUSTRY, FROM INSURERS, AND IT'S SO MUCH NOT ABOUT WHAT'S GOOD FOR HEALTH CARE AND SO MUCH ABOUT WHAT'S GOOD FOR REVENUE.

>> Reporter: ELISABETH ROSENTHAL, THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> IT WAS A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> Woodruff: ONLINE, ELIZABETH ROSENTHAL OFFERS SIX QUESTIONS YOU SHOULD BE ASKING AT YOUR DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT. THAT'S AT pbs.org/newshour.

>> Woodruff: ONE YEAR AGO, AS A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, OHIO GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH TOLD AN AUDIENCE THAT VOTERS FACED A CHOICE: ONE BASED ON SOLUTIONS AND ONE BASED ON PARANOIA, EXPLOITING THE FEARS AND ANGER THAT COULD DRIVE AMERICA INTO A DITCH. NOW, GOVERNOR KASICH HAS WRITTEN A NEW BOOK: "TWO PATHS: AMERICA DIVIDED OR UNITED." AND IT'S THE NEWEST ADDITION TO THE NEWSHOUR BOOKSHELF. AND GOVERNOR KASICH JOINS ME NOW. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE IN OUR STUDIO.

>> ITSELF A PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU, JUDY.

>> Woodruff: WELL, THANK YOU. YOU'RE HIRE THE TALK ABOUT THE BOOK AND WE'RE GOING TO, BUT I DO WANT THE START WITH OUR LEAD STORY TONIGHT, NAFTA. AS YOU KNOW, PRESIDENT TRUMP...

>> Sreenivasan: ARE WE IN OR OUT? I CAN'T QUITE TELL.

>> Woodruff: YESTERDAY THE PRESIDENT ANNOUNCED HE WAS GOING TO TERMINATE U.S. INVOLVEMENT IN NAFTA, BUT THEN A LITTLE AFTER THAT HE SAID HE'S CHANGED HIS MIND, THAT HE WANTS THE RENEGOTIATE IT. YOU HAVE BEEN SOMEONE WITH STRONG VIEWS ON NAFTA. YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF AS A FREE TRADER. YOU HEARD THE PRESIDENT GO AFTER YOU AND AFTER NAFTA DURING THE CAMPAIGN. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW?

>> I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY AMAZING. ONE MINUTE YOU SAY IT'S OVER. THE NEXT MINUTE IT ISN'T. THAT'S NOT THE WAY I'VE SEEN THINGS WORK THROUGHOUT MY CAREER, BUT AS I SAID, IT'S 23 YEARS OLD. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH TAKING ANOTHER LOOK AT IT, BUT I BELIEVE TRADE IS GOOD. I WENT TO THE OVAL OFFICE WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA IN THE LAME DUCK TRYING TO GET THE PACIFIC TRADE AGREEMENT PASSED. I'LL TELL YOU WHY: ONE, IT'S GOOD FOR US ECONOMICALLY TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH THESE FLEDGLING COUNTRIES. AND SECONDLY, IT'S GOOD STRATEGICALLY, BECAUSE WE LOOK AT THE PIVOT TO ASIA. RIGHT, SO OUR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD, WE HAVE CANADA AND MEXICO. I MEAN, CANADA'S BEEN A GREAT FRIEND OF OURS, AND MEXICO HAS GREAT POTENTIAL. THEIR PROBLEM IS CORRUPTION. BUT THEY HAVE GREAT POTENTIAL. I THINK THESE RELATIONSHIPS HAVE BENEFITED ALL OF US. THERE'S NEVER ANYTHING WRONG WITH TAKING A LOOK. BUT I HOPE IT DOESN'T JUST GO AWAY. THE IDEA THEY WANT THE TWEAK IT, LOOK AT IT, TALK, I'M ALL IN FAVOR.

>> Woodruff: IT'S NOT JUST THE PRESIDENT WHO HAS A PROBLEM WITH NAFTA. WE INTERVIEWED TIM RYAN, A CONGRESSMAN FROM YOUR HOME STATE OF OHIO, WHO SAYS NAFTA HAS COST HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY. HE TALKS ABOUT HOW THE JOBS THAT REPLACED THOSE JOBS, THE SALARIES ARE LOWER. WHAT DO YOU SAY?

>> I DON'T THINK HE'S RIGHT. I THINK NAFTA ON BALANCE HAS BEEN SLIGHTLY OUR WAY. BUT IT'S ALSO RESULTED I THINK IN THE ABILITY TO... LOOK, PART OF THE THING ABOUT TRADE IS THAT IT MAKES EVERYBODY GET BETTER BECAUSE THERE'S A COMPETITION. NOW, IF A COUNTRY IS GOING THE CHEAT, IF A COUNTRY IS GOING TO NOT FOLLOW THE RULES, I THINK WE NEED AN EXPEDITED PROCESS SO PEOPLE DON'T LOSE THEIR JOBS ONCE THE BUREAUCRACY GOES THROUGH THE PROCESS OF HEARING THE CASE. I'M ALL IN FAVOR OF THAT. BUT THE IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT AMERICA SHOULD WITHDRAW, LOCK THE DOORS, PULL DOWN THE BLINDS, AND ALL THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY IS BECAUSE OF NAFTA, I THINK THAT'S SUCH AN OVERSTATEMENT, I DON'T AGREE WITH IT.

>> Woodruff: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BOOK. YOU TAKE THE READER ON A TOUR OF THE COUNTRY DURING YOUR CAMPAIGN LAST YEAR, AND AMONG OTHER THINGS, YOU SAY THAT FEAR WAS A DRIVING EMOTION OF LAST YEAR'S ELECTION. WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> I GREW UP IN A TOWN WHERE PEOPLE, IF THE WIND BLEW THE WRONG WAY, PEOPLE FOUND THEMSELVES OUT OF WORK SOME THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT UNDEREMBOYD, UNEMPLOYED OR THEIR KIDS CAN'T GET A JOB, SO THERE'S A LOT OF REASONS FOR IT. THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO DEAL WITH IT. YOU CAN TELL PEOPLE, YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING BECAUSE SOMEBODY ELSE TOOK IT, AND I'M A STRONG MAN AND I CAN FIX IT, OR YOU CAN LOOK AT THEM AND SAY, I UNDERSTAND YOUR PROBLEMS, THEY'RE COMPLICATED. WE'RE GOING TO WORK OUR WAY OUT OF THEM. BUT FOR TODAY PEOPLE WANT A PILL, AN APP, EVERYTHING WILL BE GREAT, FIX IT TOMORROW. AND IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE. NOW, WE NEED AN ENTIRELY NEW WAY OF TRAINING WORKERS, JUDY, OF EDUCATED OUR YOUNG PEOPLE, AND THAT'S A LONG, LONG INTERVIEW WHICH SOME DAY I'D LOVE TO DO WITH YOU, BUT AT THE END, YOU WANT TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER. AND IT'S NOT JUST A BOOK ABOUT POLITICS. IT'S ALSO A BOOK ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE ALL NEED THE START LISTENING TO ONE ANOTHER. WE CAN'T BE DIVIDED, NOTHING WORKS IF WE'RE ALWAYS FIGHTING.

>> Woodruff: ALONG THOSE LINES, YOU SAY ON ELECTION DAY, YOU SAID AMERICA CHOSE THE PATH TO DARKNESS. WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE FROM KEEPING AMERICANS FROM DOING THAT AGAIN? AND BY THE WAY, THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP, ALL THE POLLS ARE SHOWING THEY WOULD STICK WITH HIM.

>> WELL, IT'S EARLY, WE'RE ONLY 100 DAYS IN. I WENT AND SAW HIM. THEY INVITED ME TO THE WHITE HOUSE. I SPENT A LONG MEETING WITH HIM, AND HE LISTENED TO THE THINGS THAT I HAD TO SAY, AND IT WAS VERY, VERY CORDIAL. SO I ROOT FOR HIM. I DON'T WANT A PRESIDENT... I ROOT FOR EVERY PRESIDENT. THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE SILENT. IT DOESN'T... YOU CAN PRAISE THEM WHEN THEY DO A GOOD JOB, BUT YOU CAN CRITICIZE THEM WHEN THEY DO A POOR JOB, BUT I THINK THE ANSWER, FOR ALL OF US, I'LL GIVE YOU ONE LITTLE LESSON, WHY DOESN'T EVERYBODY EVERY DAY READ SOMETHING THEY DON'T AGREE WITH SO WE CAN BEGIN TALKING TO ONE ANOTHER AGAIN. I BELIEVE THE STRENGTH OF THIS COUNTRY COMES FROM THE BOTTOM UP. IN ORDERS, WE HAVE TO WORK TO SOLVE PROBLEMS WHERE WE LIVE RATHER THAN WORRYING ABOUT WHAT THE HECK IS HAPPENING IN WASHINGTON ALL THE TIME. WHAT ABOUT YOUR NEIGHBOR, WHAT ABOUT YOUR FAMILY, WHAT ABOUT YOUR COMMUNITY? DO SOMETHING TO BE BECOME A HEALER AND A LIFTER. AND IN THAT PROCESS, I THINK WE CAN GET AMERICA BACK ON THE STRONG RIGHT POSITIVE TRACK, WHICH IS WHAT I BELIEVE AMERICANS REALLY WANT.

>> Woodruff: AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD AGREE WITH YOU AT THE SAME TIME THEY WOULD ASK IS IT REALISTIC. WITH REGARD TO THE PRESIDENT, WHAT HAS HE DONE? JUST IN PICKING UP ON YOUR THEME, WHAT HAS HE DONE THAT YOU'VE SEEN IS GOING TO UNIFY THE COUNTRY?

>> WELL, I DO THINK THE STRIKE IN SYRIA WAS A POSITIVE. I'LL TELL YOU WHY, I WENT THE MUNICH AT THE INVITATION OF SENATOR McCAIN AT THE DEFENSE CONFERENCE. A LOT OF WORLD LEADERS WERE LIKE, WHAT IS GOING ON WITH AMERICA? THAT ACTION, WHICH CAN BE INTERPRETED IN MANY DIFFERENT DAYS FOR WHATEVER REASON, I SAW IT AS A WAY THE REASSURE OUR FRIENDS AND ALLIES AND LEADERS AROUND THE WORLD THAT WE'RE NOT GOING AWAY, THAT WE ARE GOING TO PLAY A ROLE IN INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS. THAT WAS VERY GOOD. I DON'T LIKE THE KNOCK-AND-TALK POLICY WHERE WE'RE GOING INTO HOMES AND CHECKING THINGS AND EVEN IN SOME CASE WITH ICE DIVIDING FAMILIES. WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE BROKEN FAMILIES. I'M GLAD I'M NOT HEARING SO MUCH ABOUT TWITTER ANYMORE. WHEN I WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE, JUDY, THIS IS AN INTERESTING STORY, WHEN I BECAME GOVERNOR, I HAD A ROCKY TIME. MY WIFE SAYS, YOU'RE THE FATHER OF OHIO, WHY DON'T YOU ACT LIKE IT. I TOLD THE PRESIDENT THAT STORY, AND I THINK HE'LL GET BETTER. WE SHOULD HOPE AND PRAY HE'LL BE A UNIFIER. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED IN AMERICA.

>> Woodruff: WELL, WE HOPE TO HAVE ANOTHER CONVERSATION WITH YOU. THERE'S SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT. THE BOOK IS "TWO BATHS: AMERICA UNITED OR DIVIDED." JOHN KASICH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> Woodruff: NOW TO ANOTHER IN OUR BRIEF BUT SPECTACULAR SERIES, WHERE WE ASK PEOPLE TO DESCRIBE THEIR PASSIONS. TONIGHT, WE HEAR FROM ARTIST AND PERFORMER BILL BOWERS, WHO TEACHES MIME, A THEATRICAL TECHNIQUE THAT USES GESTURES INSTEAD OF WORDS, AT NEW YORK UNIVERSITY.

>> I AM FROM A BIG, QUIET FAMILY IN MONTANA. I WAS AN INCREDIBLY SHY YOUNGER PERSON. I AM ALSO A GAY MAN, WHICH THE WORD GAY DIDN'T EVEN EXIST BACK THEN, BUT I KNEW ABOUT SILENCE EARLY ON FOR ALL OF THOSE REASONS, I GOT OLDER AND LEARNED THERE WAS AN ART FORM ABOUT NOT TALKING. I THOUGHT, OH MY GOD, THAT'S PERFECT, I'M IN. A STORY CAME ON THE NEWS. MARCEL MARCEAU WAS EMBARKING ON HIS 80th BIRTHDAY WORLD TOUR. I THOUGHT, I'VE GOT TO STUDY WITH MARCEL MARCEAU. I SOUGHT HIM OUT. I WAS INTIMIDATED BY HIM. HE WAS A VERY FAMOUS, VERY OLE FRENCH MIME, AND ALL OF THAT CAME INTO THE ROOM WITH HIM. HE TALKED ABOUT HIMSELF IN THE THIRD PERSON. HE TALKED ABOUT HIMSELF IN THE THIRD PERSON A LOT. HE SAID "PEOPLE SAY MIME SO,"" PEOPLE SAY MARCEAU IS GENIUS, I SAY NO, MARCEAU IS NOT THE GENIUS. GENIUS IS THERE MARCEAU AND THE PEOPLE MEET." A LOT OF TIMES WHAT HAPPENS FOR ME, ESPECIALLY PERFORMING IN THE U.S., IS THAT PEOPLE HEAR IT'S A MIME SHOW AND THEY DON'T WANT TO COME. I MEAN IF I HEARD THAT IT WAS A MIME SHOW, I PROBABLY WOULDN'T COME. ACTUALLY NOT ABOUT YOU AS A PERFORMER, IT'S ABOUT YOU AND THE CONNECTION YOU MAKE WITH AN AUDIENCE AND THE SPACE BETWEEN YOU IS WHERE THIS THING CAN HAPPEN. WHAT I FIND REALLY INTERESTING FOR AUDIENCES WITH MY SHOW IS THAT IF YOU SIT IN SILENCE, SOMETHING HAPPENS. A LOT OF PEOPLE END UP FEELING MORE THAN THEY EVER IMAGINED. I THINK MIME PROVIDES THIS QUIET SPACE THAT'S HARDER AND HARDER TO FIND IN THE WORLD AND IF YOU SIT WITH YOURSELF FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME, YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO FEEL SOMETHING AND I THINK A LOT OF THE WORLD IS PUTTING STUFF IN FRONT OF ACTUALLY FEELING. MAYBE IF WE JUST SIT IN WHAT SILENCE IS FOR RIGHT NOW. JUST TOGETHER. MY NAME IS BILL BOWERS, AND THIS IS MY BRIEF BUT SPECTACULAR TAKE ON SILENCE.

>> Woodruff: YOU CAN FIND MORE OF OUR BRIEF BUT SPECTULAR VIDEOS ONLINE AT pbs.org/newshour/brief. ON THE NEWSHOUR ONLINE RIGHT NOW, WINTER ICE DEPOSITS THAT FORM ON TOP OF ARCTIC RIVERS AND PROVIDE CRUCIAL WATER FOR ECOSYSTEMS IN THE SUMMER ARE MELTING FAR EARLIER WITH EACH SUCCESSIVE YEAR. WE EXPLORE HOW THAT AFFECTS WILDLIFE AND FLORA DOWNSTREAM. THAT AND MORE IS ON OUR WEB SITE, pbs.org/newshour. AND THAT'S THE NEWSHOUR FOR TONIGHT. ON FRIDAY, JEFFREY BROWN TRAVELS TO SPAIN TO LEARN HOW ARTISTS ARE USING NEW TECHNOLOGIES TO CREATE EXACT REPLICAS I'M JUDY WOODRUFF. JOIN US ONLINE AND AGAIN HERE TOMORROW EVENING WITH MARK SHIELDS AND DAVID BROOKS. FOR ALL OF US AT THE PBS NEWSHOUR, THANK YOU AND SEE YOU SOON.

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