PBS NewsHour; July 30, 2010 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS

>> Lehrer: GOOD EVENING. I'M JIM LEHRER. SIX MORE U.S. SOLDIERS WERE KILLED IN AFGHANISTAN IN THE LAST 24 HOURS, BRINGING THE TOTAL TO 66 FOR JULY-- THE MOST IN A SINGLE MONTH SINCE THE WAR BEGAN.

>> Woodruff: AND I'M JUDY WOODRUFF. ON THE "NEWSHOUR" TONIGHT, RAY SUAREZ TALKS TO TWO VETERANS OF THE IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN CONFLICTS ABOUT THE CONTINUED CHALLENGE FROM DEADLY ROADSIDE BOMBS OR I.E.D.s-- THE NUMBER ONE KILLER OF AMERICANS.

>> Lehrer: WE EXPLORE THE LATEST MIX OF ECONOMIC NUMBERS AND THE PROSPECTS FOR THE AUTO INDUSTRY WITH BUSINESS REPORTER MICKI MAYNARD AND ECONOMIST MARTIN BAILEY.

>> Woodruff: DAVID BROOKS AND RUTH MARCUS, SITTING IN FOR MARK SHIELDS, PRESENT THEIR ANALYSIS OF THE WEEK'S NEWS. ♪

>> Lehrer: AND STING WITH STRINGS. JEFFREY BROWN TALKS TO ROCK STAR STING ABOUT HIS NEWEST MUSICAL CHALLENGE-- PERFORMING WITH A 45 PIECE ORCHESTRA.

>> THE ROYAL IF I MA MAR:-- PHILHARMONIC IS A SERIOUS ORCHESTRA. SO IN A WAY IT DOES FLATTER MY EGO BUT ALSO I HAVE TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND... AND YOU KNOW, SO IT'S A BIG CHALLENGE FOR ME.

>> Lehrer: THAT'S ALL AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S "NEWSHOUR." MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY:

>> THIS IS THE ENGINE THAT CONNECTS ABUNDANT GRAIN FROM THE AMERICAN HEARTLAND TO HARAN'S BEST SELLING WHOLE WHEAT, WHILE KEEPING 60 BILLION POUNDS OF CARBON OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE EVERY YEAR. BNSF, THE ENGINE THAT CONNECTS US.

>> AND BY THE BILL AND MELINDA GATES FOUNDATION. DEDICATED TO THE IDEA THAT ALL PEOPLE DESERVE THE CHANCE TO LIVE A HEALTHY PRODUCTIVE LIFE. AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU.

>> Lehrer: THE DEATH OF SIX MORE AMERICANS IN AFGHANISTAN FOCUSED NEW ATTENTION TODAY ON THE DANGERS CONFRONTING U.S. FORCES THERE. CHIEF AMONG THEM-- THE BOMBS KNOWN AS I.E.D.s. RAY SUAREZ HAS OUR REPORT.

>> Reporter: AS OF TODAY, 66 U.S. TROOPS HAVE BEEN KILLED IN AFGHANISTAN IN JULY WITH ONE MORE DAY LEFT TO GO. THE PREVIOUS HIGH WAS 60 KILLED IN JUNE. ANOTHER 20 TROOPERS FROM OTHER NATO COUNTRIES HAVE ALSO BEEN KILLED. THAT'S ACTUALLY DOWN FROM 42 IN JUNE. AND AS FIGHTING PEAKS IN THE SWELTERING AFGHAN SUMMER, A FAMILIAR WEAPON IS POSING GRAVE DANGER TO U.S. FORCES, THEIR INTERNATIONAL AND AFGHAN PARTNERS AND CIVILIANS. THIS AMERICAN SOLDIER HAD STEPPED ON AN IMPROVISED EXPLOSIVE DEVICE OR I.E.D. FOR SHORT. WHATEVER IT'S CALLED, THE MAKESHIFT, ROADSIDE BOMBS NOW CAUSE A 60% OF COALITION DEATHS IN AFGHANISTAN, AND KILL LARGE SPECIALIST BRADLY PARRISH GAVE A SENSE OF THE THREAT HE AND OTHERS FACE.

>> SCARY. IT'S... YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN IT'S COMING. I MEAN, LIKE WHEN WE GO ON PATROLS AND WE'RE WALKING BECAUSE THEY USE THE PRESSURE PLATES OUT HERE AND ANY STEP COULD POTENTIALLY BE YOUR LAST AND YOU JUST KIND OF HAVE TO ACCEPT IT.

>> Reporter: THE I.E.D. FIRST BECAME A KILLER IN IRAQ AS INSURGENTS THERE MADE USE OF IRAQI MUNITIONS LEFT, LITTERED ACROSS THE COUNTRY AFTER THE FALL OF SADDAM HUSSEIN. THE U.S. MILITARY TRIED TO COUNTER THE BOMBS' DEVASTATING EFFECT BY DEPLOYING NEW, MORE HEAVILY-ARMORED VEHICLES AND DEVELOPED TECHNOLOGIES TO DETECT AND DEFUSE THE BOMBS. IN AFGHANISTAN, THE IMPROVISED BOMBS ARE MORE OFTEN MADE OF FERTILIZER, USING AGRICULTURAL- GRADE AMMONIUM NITRATE. EARLIER THIS YEAR, "FRONTLINE" SHOWED HOW THE TALIBAN MAKES BOMBS. THEY CAN EXPLODE WITH ENOUGH FORCE TO FLIP A 15-TON M.R.A.P. VEHICLE. INTERNATIONAL FORCES ROUTINELY DISCOVER HUGE CACHES OF FERTILIZER USED TO CREATE THE WEAPONS. ALL OF THIS COMES AGAINST THE BACKDROP OF 76,000 U.S. MILITARY DOCUMENTS BEING LEAKED THIS WEEK BY THE WEB SITE WIKILEAKS. THE GROUP SAYS IT'S REVIEWING 15,000 MORE RECORDS. YESTERDAY, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF BLUNTLY ASSESSED THE HARM HE THINKS WIKILEAKS AND ITS FOUNDER JULIAN ASSANGE HAVE CAUSED.

>> MR. ASSANGE CAN SAY WHATEVER HE LIKES ABOUT THE GREATER GOOD HE THINKS HE AND HIS SOURCE ARE DOING, BUT THE TRUTH IS THEY MIGHT ALREADY HAVE ON THEIR HANDS THE BLOOD OF SOME YOUNG SOLDIER OR THAT OF AN AFGHAN FAMILY.

>> Reporter: PENTAGON LEADERS HAVE ORDERED NEW SECURITY MEASURES TO SAFEGUARD INFORMATION. AS FOR SAFEGUARDING THE TROOPS, A U.S. MILITARY TASK FORCE HAS SO FAR SPENT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO COUNTER THE CONTINUING THREAT OF ROADSIDE BOMBS.

>> Suarez: FOR MORE ON THE I.E.D. CHALLENGES FACING AMERICAN TROOPS IN AFGHANISTAN, WE GET THE VIEWS OF TWO VETERANS WHO HAVE EXTENSIVE EXPERIENCE DEALING WITH THEM. TODD BOWERS IS A STAFF SERGEANT IN THE MARINE CORPS RESERVES. HE SERVED TWO TOURS IN IRAQ AND ONE IN AFGHANISTAN LAST YEAR. HE'S THE DEPUTY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN VETERANS OF AMERICA. AND RETIRED ARMY COLONEL PETER MANSOOR WAS A BRIGADE COMMANDER IN IRAQ AND WROTE A BOOK ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCE, "BAGHDAD AT SUNRISE." HE SERVED AS EXECUTIVE OFFICER TO GENERAL PETRAEUS DURING THE SURGE IN 2007-2008. HE NOW TEACHES MILITARY HISTORY AT OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY. AND PETERMAN SOOR, IN THE RECENT NEWS YOU HAVEN'T HEARD MUCH ABOUT PITCHED BATTLES WITH INDIVIDUAL FIGHTERS, HAS THE I.E.D. BECOME THE WEAPON OF CHOICE FOR THE AFGHAN INSURGENCY?

>> IT. IT'S A SMART WEAPON FOR THE INSURGENTS TO USE. THEY DON'T HAVE TO PUT THEIR TROOPS AT RISK. BUT IT IS ALSO A FAIRLY INDISCRIMINATE WEAPON KILLING CIVILIANS AND MILITARY FORCES ALIKE. SO THE ENEMY CLEARLY IS WILLING TO USE THOSE KIND OF WEAPONS AND TAKE THE FALLOUT AS IT OCCURS.

>> Suarez: WELL, WHAT MAKES IT, AS YOU SAY, SMART WHAT MAKES IT AN ATTRACTIVE, USEFUL WEAPON FOR THEM?

>> WELL, AGAIN, THEY DON'T HAVE TO PUT THEIR TROOPS AT RISK IN USING THE DEVICES. THEY DON'T HAVE TO GET INTO PITCH BATTLES WITH U.S. FORCES WHICH TEND TO GO AGAINST THE TALIBAN WHENEVER THEY TRY THAT TACTIC. AND INSTEAD THEY CAN PLANT THESE DEVICES, PUT A PRESSURE PLATE SWITCH ON IT WHICH WILL DETONATE WHENEVER A VEHICLE ROLLS OVER IT AND THEN THEY CAN DISAPPEAR INTO THE HILLS AND THE VILLAGES.

>> Suarez: TODD BOWERS, DOES THAT LEVEL THE TECHNOLOGICAL FIELD WHEN ARE YOU DEALING WITH ONE OF THE BEST EQUIPPED SETS OF ARMIES IN THE WORLD?

>> IT DOES. BUT WHAT IT HIGHLIGHTS AS WELL AS THE IMPORTANCE OF FOCUS ON THE CIVILIAN POPULACE, THESE PRESSURE PLATES HAVE TO BE HOOKED UP PRIOR TO DRIVING OVER THEM BECAUSE THE BATTERIES DON'T LAST THAT LONG. SO IT REQUIRES THE CIVILIANS OR SOMEONE IN THAT VILLAGE TO BE THERE TO CONNECT THESE I.E.D.S UP BEFOREHAND. SO IT'S NOT LIKE A SORT OF SET IT AND FORGET IT MENTALITY. IT'S ONE THAT HAS SOME INVOLVEMENT THAT REALLY REQUIRES THE U.S. MILITARY TO FOCUS ON THE CIVILIANS TO MAKE THEM NOT WANT TO CONNECT THOSE WIRES.

>> Suarez: SO YOU ARE NOT JUST FIGHTING AGAINST A WEAPON, YOU'RE FIGHTING AGAINST A WHOLE SYSTEM OF RELATIONSHIPS?

>> YOU ARE. AND THE OTHER PIECES THAT THESE I.E.D.s AS WAS MENTIONED ARE INDISCRIMINATE KILLING MANY, MANY CIVILIANS. THESE ARE VERY GOOD OPPORTUNITIES FOR US TO BE ABLE TO HIGHLIGHT HOW THE TALIBAN IS NOT FOCUSED ON TAKING CARE OF AFGHANIS BUT MORE OR LESS INDISCRIMINATELY KILLING THEM WHILE TARGETING US.

>> Suarez: PETER MANSOUR AS WE MENTIONED THESE WEAPONS TOOK AN ENORMOUS TOLL ON AMERICAN LIVES. OVER TIME WE DID LEARN LESSONS IN IRAQ AND THE BATTLE AGAINST I.E.D.s THAT WE CAN APPLY IN AFGHANISTAN?

>> WELL, WE DID. ONE OF THE PRIMARY LESSONS WHICH WAS JUST DISCUSSED IS THAT YOU HAVE TO ATTACK THE SYSTEM AS A WHOLE, THE NETWORK THAT IMPLACES THE WEAPONS. PUTTING MORE ARMOR ON VEHICLES, PRODUCING NEW VEHICLES SUCH AS THE MINE RESISTANT AMBUSH PROTECTED TRUCKS WE NOW HAVE, USING COUNTERMEASURES SUCH AS ELECTRONIC JAMERS. THOSE ARE ALL GOOD DEVICES, THAT'S GOOD THINGS TO DO TO MITIGATE THE DAMAGE TO OUR TROOPS. BUT THEY ONLY PROTECT AT THE POINT OF ATTACK. WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IS ROLL BACK THE NETWORK BECAUSE THERE'S SOMEONE WHO FINANCES THESE DEVICES. THERE'S SOMEONE WHO BUILDS THEM. THERE IS SOMEONE WHO IMPLACES THEM. THERE IS SOMEONE WHO HOOKS UP THE HIRES. THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WHO ACT AS LOOKOUTS. AND SO THERE IS A WHOLE NETWORK BEHIND THESE DEVICES. AND TO ROLL THAT BACK YOU HAVE TO GET OUT AMONG THE POPULACE AND YOU HAVE TO SECURE THE BATTLE SPACE.

>> Suarez: TODD BOWERS, WHEN YOU TRY TO PEEL THE POPULACE AWAY FROM COOPERATION WITH THE INSURGENTS, CAN YOU PROTECT THEM AFTER THAT? CAN THE UNITED STATES ASSURE THESE PEOPLE THAT IF THEY SAY NO TO THE INSURGENTS, THAT WE'LL STAND BETWEEN THEM?

>> AND THAT'S THE COMPLEXITIES OF THE ENVIRONMENT IN AFGHANISTAN VERSUS IRAQ. AFGHANISTAN IS EXTREMELY RURAL. IT'S EXTREMELY TRIBAL, IT'S EXTREMELY IMPOVERISHED AND THEY ARE ALSO SET IN THEIR WAYS THE WAY THEY HAVE DONE THESE THINGS IN THE PAST. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO HEAR FROM US THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE THERE TO SECURE THEM AND TAKE CARE OF THEM. BUT WHEN WE DO. WHEN WE DO STOP IN THESE VILLAGES AND WE PROTECT THEM, WE GIVE THEM INFRASTRUCTURE, WE SHOW THEM THAT DEVELOPMENT WILL MAKE THEIR LIVES BETTER AND THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE TALIBAN, THAT IS WHEN WE ACCOMPLISH OUR MISSION. BUT AGAIN IT'S VERY DIFFICULT AND FOCUSING ON POPULATION CENTERS IS GOING TO BE KEY IN RANCING IN AFGHANISTAN.

>> PETERMANSOUR THESE I.E.D.s HAVE KILLED THOUSANDS OF CIVILIANS IN AFGHANISTAN AS WELL. DOES THAT CREATE AN OPENING FOR THE UNITED STATES AND ITS ALLIES?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY DOES. AND LET ME JUST GIVE YOU SOME GRANULARITY TO WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR NEARLY 400 AFGHAN CIVILIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED BY ROADSIDE BOMBS IN OVER 840 HAVE BEEN WOUNDED. TWO-THIRDS OF THE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES ARE CREATED BY ROADSIDE BOMBS WHICH ARE LAID BY THE TALIBAN. AND WE CAN HANG THAT FIGURE AROUND THEIR NECK LIKE A MILLSTONE. AND I'M SURE THAT GENERAL PETRAEUS AND HIS TEAM WILL DO THAT IN MONTHS AHEAD.

>> Suarez: WELL, TODD BOWERS, YOU HAVE DIRECT EXPERIENCE WITH THE USE OF THESE WEAPONS. DO THEY CHANGE THE WAY THE U.S. FORCES GO ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS ON THE GROUND?

>> THEY DO. WHEN WE WERE THERE AND REALIZED THAT THE I.E.D.s WERE BEING SPREAD OUT ALL OVER THE PLACE WE STOPPED USING ROADWAYS AND OTHER TACTICS TO JUST STEAR CLEAR OF THEM. BUT ULTIMATELY THE ENEMY IS ALWAYS ADVANCING AND THEY ARE LOOKING AT OUR TACTICS AND ADAPTING TO THE WAY THAT WE MOVE. THAT ALWAYS TEACHES US SOMETHING VERY CRITICAL THAT THEY ARE WATCHING. THAT THEY ARE ALWAYS OBSERVING US AND THEY ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO THESE THINGS THAT THEY ARE DOING TO TRY AND COUNTER WHAT IT IS THEY ARE IN PLACING I.E.D.s, IN CHOKE POINTS, THEY ARE PUTTING THEM IN VILLAGES. ANYPLACE THEY CAN. IT DOESN'T MAKE OUR LIVES EASIER BUT IT LETS US KNOW WE ARE AN ADAPTABLE ENMOO WE HAVE TO BE READY TO DEAL WITH.

>> DOES IT GET INSIDE YOUR HEAD TOO. DOES IT DO SOMETHING MORE THAN JUST CHANGE THE PHYSICAL DETAILS OF THE DAY AND WHERE YOU GO AND WHERE YOU DON'T GO AND MAKE YOU WARY ENOUGH TO PUT YOU OFF YOUR GAME OR MAKE YOU LESS EFFECTIVE IN THE MISSION?

>> IT DOES AND IT DOESN'T. IT DOES IN THE MIND-SET THAT YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT IT ALWAYS. BUT WE'RE TRAINED MILITARY SO WE ARE GOING TO GO FORWARD WITH OUR MISSION. BUT I DO KNOW AT TIMES COY BE SHAKING HANDS WITH SOMEONE THAT WILL BE IMPLACING AN I.E.D. AS WE GET READY TO LEAVE THAT VILLAGEMENT AND THAT'S THE SEVERITY OF THAT ENVIRONMENT. IT TAKES A TREMENDOUS TOLL ON OUR MEN AND WOMEN IN UNIFORM KNOWING THAT THERE IS NO SOLIDIFIED DYNAMIC IN THE WAY WE SHOULD ENGAGE THESE PEOPLE. THAT IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE FLUID BUT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE ON POINT, WE HAVE EFFECTIVE TRAINING AND ULTIMATELY SOME TOLERANCE TO KNOW THAT CHANGE WILL OCCUR IT THAT'S GOING TO MOVE US FORWARD GREATLY.

>> PETER MANSOUR, MIXING THOSE TACTICS, WORKING WITH THE CIVILIAN POPULATION, TRYING TO TAKE AWAY ALLIES OF THE INSURGENTS AND THE TECHNICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL COUNTERMEASURES, TAKEN AS A WHOLE YOU CAN GET THE KIND OF REDUCTIONS THAT YOU SAW IN IRAQ FROM I.E.D. DEATHS IN AFGHANISTAN?

>> WELL, YOU CAN OVER TIME. AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVEN'T PUT INTO THE MIX YET IS OVER TIME IT'S NOT U.S. FORCES THAT ARE GOING TO DERIVE THE BULK OF THE POPULATION, IT HAS TO BE AFGHAN FORCES. AND AS THEY GROW IN NUMBERS AND QUALITY, THEN YOU CAN ACTUALLY HOLD THE AREAS RATHER THAN JUST CLEAR THEM OF ENEMY FORCES AND PATROL THROUGH THEM EVERY NOW AND THEN. IT'S GOING TO TAKE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF AFGHAN TROOPS WHICH ARE CURRENTLY BEING TRAINED AND ONCE THEY ARE ON THE GROUND, THEN YOU WILL SEE REAL ADVANCES IN REDUCING THE DEATHS CAUSED AND THE INJURIES CAUSED BY ROADSIDE BOMBS.

>> Suarez: DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> I DO AGREE WITH IT AND I ALSO REALLY WOULD LIKE TO HAWAII LIGHT THAT IT IS GOING TO TAKE TIME. WE WORKED WITH AFGHAN NATIONAL POLICE IN AFGHANI SOLDIERS. THERE IS A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE. AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO INSTILL IN THEM NOT JUST BASIC TRAINING AND UNDERSTANDING HOW WEAPONS WORK, BUT A PRIDE IN THEIR COUNTRY. A PRIDE THAT THEY ARE A PART OF SOMETHING LARGE. BECAUSE THAT WAS THE LARGEST ISSUE THAT WE WERE FACING. THEY KNEW HOW TO FIRE THE WEAPONS. THEY KNEW HOW TO PATROL THE STREETS BUT THEY WEREN'T WILLING TO DIE FOR IT YET. AND THAT IS GOING TO BE THE SINGLE HARDEST LESSON TO TURN, TEACH THESE TROOPS AS THEY DEVELOP.

>> Suarez: TODD BOWERS , COLONEL MANSOUR, THANK YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

>> STILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR TONIGHT, AN ECONOMIC UPDATE, BROOKS

>> Lehrer: STILL TO COME ON THE "NEWSHOUR": AN ECONOMIC UPDATE; BROOKS AND MARCUS AND STING WITH STRINGS. BUT FIRST, THE OTHER NEWS OF THE DAY. HERE'S HARI SREENIVASAN IN OUR NEWSROOM.

>> Sreenivasan: B.P. SAID TODAY IT'S SET TO CUT BACK ON CLEANUP IN THE GULF OF MEXICO NOW THAT THE OIL HAS STOPPED FLOWING. AT THE SAME TIME, CREWS HIT A SNAG IN THE EFFORT TO PLUG THE DAMAGED WELL FOR GOOD.

>> IT'S NOT TOO SOON FOR A SCALE-BACK. WE HAVEN'T FINALLY AND PERMANENTLY KILLED THE WELL, I DON'T THINK WE'LL SEE ANY MORE OIL GOING TO THE BEACHES.

>> Sreenivasan: WITH THAT, THE NEW BOSS AT B.P., BOB DUDLEY, SIGNALED THE COMPANY WILL NEED FEWER SKIMMER BOATS AND FEWER WORKERS ON THE BEACH THAN IT'S BEEN USING. HE NOTED THE RUPTURED WELL HAS BEEN CAPPED FOR MORE THAN TWO WEEKS, ALTHOUGH LOCAL LEADERS HAVE INSISTED IT'S FAR TOO SOON TO SCALE BACK. BUT DUDLEY VOWED TODAY IN BILOXI, MISSISSIPPI THAT THE OIL GIANT IS FIRMLY COMMITTED TO LONG-TERM RECOVERY IN THE GULF FOR YEARS TO COME.

>> THE COMMITMENT MAY RANGE BY B.P. TO STAY HERE ALONG THE COMMUNITIES OF THE GULF COAST TO MAKE GOOD, TO RESTORE THE GULF COAST, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE BUSINESSES AND THE INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THIS SPILL, THE LONGER-TERM IMPACTS OF OIL ON THE MARSHES AND THE BEACHES ARE REMEDIATED.

>> Sreenivasan: DUDLEY ALSO ANNOUNCED THE FORMER HEAD OF THE FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY-- JAMES LEE WITT-- WILL HEAD THOSE EFFORTS. AND B.P. BEGAN SETTING UP A SEPARATE $100 MILLION FUND TO COMPENSATE OIL WORKERS WHO LOST THEIR JOBS UNDER THE FEDERAL MORATORIUM ON DEEPWATER DRILLING. OUT IN THE GULF, CREWS HAD PLANNED TO BEGIN PLUGGING THE BLOWN WELL THIS WEEKEND. BUT THAT WAS DELAYED UNTIL AT LEAST TUESDAY, AFTER THEY FOUND DEBRIS IN A RELIEF WELL. THE PLAN FOR THE SO-CALLED STATIC KILL CALLS FOR PERMANENTLY FILLING THE DAMAGED "MACONDO" WELL IN TWO STAGES-- FIRST THROUGH THE CAP, PUMPING IN MUD AND CEMENT FROM THE TOP. AFTER THAT, THE RELIEF WELL WOULD BE USED TO FINISH THE JOB FROM BELOW, FUNNELING MORE MATERIAL INTO THE MAIN WELL SHAFT. AND IN WASHINGTON, THE U.S. HOUSE MOVED TODAY TO APPROVE NEW SAFETY STANDARDS FOR DRILLING. THE BILL WOULD ALSO ABOLISH THE $75 MILLION CAP ON AN OIL COMPANY'S LIABILITY. THAT OIL SPILL FROM A RUPTURED PIPELINE IN MICHIGAN HAS NOW BEEN CONTAINED. THE CANADIAN COMPANY THAT OWNS THE LINE SAID IT'S SHIFTING TO CLEAN OPERATIONS IN THE KALAMAZOO RIVER. THE U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY ESTIMATES MORE THAN A MILLION GALLONS OF OIL LEAKED. BUT, IT SAYS THE OIL WAS STOPPED, 80 MILES SHORT OF LAKE MICHIGAN. IN NORTHWEST PAKISTAN, OFFICIALS REPORTED AT LEAST 430 PEOPLE KILLED IN THREE DAYS OF FLOODING. MONSOON RAINS TRIGGERED LANDSLIDES, SENT RIVERS SURGING OUT OF THEIR BANKS AND SUBMERGED VILLAGES. AT LEAST 60 BRIDGES WERE DESTROYED ON THE ROAD CONNECTING PESHAWAR TO ISLAMABAD. FORECASTS CALLED FOR SOME AREAS TO GET A RESPITE, BUT OTHERS WERE LIKELY TO SEE MORE RAIN. HUGE SECTIONS OF CENTRAL RUSSIA ARE NOW UNDER A STATE OF EMERGENCY. FOREST FIRES KILLED 25 PEOPLE AND SCORCHED 200,000 ACRES THIS WEEK FUELED BY RUSSIA'S HOTTEST SUMMER EVER RECORDED. ENTIRE VILLAGES BURNED TO THE GROUND AND MORE THAN A THOUSAND HOMES WERE DESTROYED. PRIME MINISTER VLADIMIR PUTIN VISITED ONE DAMAGED SITE TODAY, PROMISING TO HELP REBUILD. AND IN MOSCOW, PRESIDENT DMITRY MEDVEDEV MADE THE SAME PLEDGE, IN A TELECONFERENCE.

>> ( translated ): AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND, THERE IS A SEPARATE PROBLEM REGARDING THE LARGE QUANTITY OF PEOPLE WHO LOST THEIR HOUSES. WE NEED TO PREPARE SPECIAL PROGRAMS ON EACH OF THE REGIONS THAT SUFFERED FROM FIRES IN ORDER TO PROVIDE TEMPORARY HOUSING FOR THOSE WHO LOST THEIR HOMES, AND ALSO TO BUILD NEW HOUSES FROM MODERN QUALITY MATERIALS.

>> Sreenivasan: THE FIRES HAVE SENT HEAVY SMOKE AND ASH DRIFTING OVER MOSCOW AND OTHER CITIES. COOLER AIR BROUGHT SOME RELIEF IN PLACES TODAY. A MAJOR WILDFIRE ALSO RAGED IN CALIFORNIA TODAY IN THE HILLS NORTH OF LOS ANGELES. IT STRETCHED ACROSS 12 AND A HALF SQUARE MILES. FIREFIGHTERS FOCUSED ON PROTECTING A CLUSTER OF POWER TRANSMISSION LINES THAT PROVIDE ELECTRICITY TO MUCH OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. SOME 2,000 PEOPLE WERE FORCED FROM THEIR HOMES ON THURSDAY, BUT MOST OF THEM RETURNED TODAY. THE U.S. CONSULATE IN JUAREZ, MEXICO HAS CLOSED, AS DRUG VIOLENCE RAGES THERE. THREE MONTHS AGO DRUG GANGS KILLED THREE PEOPLE LINKED TO THE CONSULATE. LAST NIGHT, THE U.S. EMBASSY WARNED AMERICANS TO AVOID THE AREA, PENDING A SECURITY REVIEW. THERE WAS NO WORD HOW LONG THAT WILL TAKE. SEPARATELY, MEXICAN SOLDIERS KILLED A REPUTED DRUG LORD, IGNACIO NACHO CORONEL. U.S. OFFICIALS CALLED IT A CRIPPLING BLOW TO THE POWERFUL SINALOA CARTEL. WALL STREET SEESAWED FOR MUCH OF THE DAY ON THE LATEST ECONOMIC DATA. IN THE END, THE MARKET FINISHED WITH LITTLE CHANGE. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE LOST ONE POINT TO CLOSE BELOW 10,466. THE NASDAQ ROSE THREE POINTS TO CLOSE AT 2254. FOR THE MONTH, BOTH THE DOW AND THE NASDAQ WERE UP 7%-- THEIR BEST SHOWING IN THE LAST YEAR. THOSE ARE SOME OF THE DAY'S MAJOR STORIES. NOW, BACK TO JUDY.

>> Woodruff: NOW, THE ECONOMY SHOWS NEW SIGNS OF SLOWING DOWN ONCE AGAIN. CONSUMER SPENDING IS DOWN; COMPANIES HAVEN'T BEEN RESTOCKING THEIR SHELVES AND THE NATION'S TRADE DEFICIT IS GROWING AGAIN. ALL OF WHICH CONTRIBUTED TO ECONOMIC GROWTH SLOWING TO A RATE OF 2.4% IN THE SECOND QUARTER-- THE LOWEST IN NEARLY A YEAR. THAT'S DOWN FROM 3.7% FROM JANUARY TO MARCH AND 5% AT THE END OF 2009. STILL, ON A TRIP TO MICHIGAN TODAY, PRESIDENT OBAMA POINTED TO PROGRESS.

>> THIS MORNING WE LEARNED THAT OUR ECONOMY GREW BY 2.4% IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF THE YEAR, SO THAT MEANS IT'S NOW BEEN GROWING AGAIN FOR ONE FULL YEAR. WE'VE GOT TO KEEP ON INCREASING THAT RATE OF GROWTH AND KEEP ON ADDING JOBS SO WE CAN MOVE FORWARD.

>> Woodruff: THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT REPORT DID SHOW THAT BUSINESS INVESTMENT IN EQUIPMENT AND SOFTWARE WAS THE BEST IN 13 YEARS. AND NEW HOME CONSTRUCTION SURGED AFTER LAGGING IN THE FIRST QUARTER. OVERALL, THOUGH, IT'S NOT NEARLY ENOUGH TO BRING DOWN UNEMPLOYMENT, NOW AT 9.5%. AND REPUBLICANS CHARGED AGAIN THAT FEDERAL SPENDING IS HOLDING THE ECONOMY BACK. REPRESENTATIVE PETE SESSIONS OF TEXAS.

>> MR. SPEAKER, THE NUMBERS ARE STUNNING. OVER THE TIME THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS BEEN IN OFFICE WE'VE LOST TWO AND A-HALF MILLION FREE-ENTERPRISE SYSTEM JOBS. AND YET, 500,000 GOVERNMENT JOBS HAVE BEEN ADDED IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME. THE ASSAULT ON THE COMMON MAN OF THIS COUNTRY IS UNRELENTING BY THE DEMOCRAT MAJORITY.

>> Woodruff: HOPING TO HIGHLIGHT ECONOMIC SUCCESSES, THE PRESIDENT VISITED TWO AUTO PLANTS IN THE DETROIT AREA. HE TOUTED THE TURNAROUND SINCE GENERAL MOTORS AND CHRYSLER WENT INTO BANKRUPTCY AND RECEIVED BILLIONS IN BAILOUT MONEY. ONE YEAR LATER, THE INDUSTRY HAS ADDED 55,000 JOBS.

>> THE FACT THAT WE'RE STANDING SO TODAY THIS INDUSTRY IS GROWING STRONGER. IT'S CREATING NEW JOBS, IT'S MANUFACTURING THE FUEL-EFFICIENT CARS AND TRUCKS THAT WILL CARRY US TOWARD AN ENERGY-INDEPENDENT FUTURE. YOU ARE PROVING THE NAYSAYERS WRONG. ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE-) ALL OF YOU.

>> Woodruff: THE PRESIDENT LATER VISITED A G.M. PLANT AND BRIEFLY GOT BEHIND THE WHEEL OF THE AUTOMAKER'S NEW BATTERY-POWERED CHEVROLET VOLT. THE GOVERNMENT NOW OWNS 61% OF G.M. WE TAKE A CLOSER LOOK NOW AT THE STATE OF THE AUTO INDUSTRY AND THE BROADER PROSPECTS FOR MANUFACTURING. MICHELINE MAYNARD IS THE SENIOR EDITOR OF CHANGING GEARS, A NEW PUBLIC RADIO PROJECT FOCUSING ON THE FUTURE OF THE INDUSTRIAL MIDWEST. SHE'S AN AUTHOR OF SEVERAL BOOKS ON BUSINESS AND A FORMER REPORTER FOR THE "NEW YORK TIMES." AND MARTIN BAILEY IS AN ECONOMIST WITH THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION. HE SERVED AS CHAIRMAN OF THE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS UNDER PRESIDENT CLINTON. HE'S ALSO A SENIOR ADVISER TO McKINSEY & COMPANY WORKING ON PROJECTS ABOUT GLOBALIZATION AND PRODUCTIVITY. THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING WITH US. MICKEY MAYNARD, TO YOU FIRST. THE PRESIDENT WAS TALKING UP THE AUTO INDUSTRY TODAY. HOW MUCH HAS IT TURNED AROUND?

>> THE AUTO INDUSTRY IS IN A VERY SLOW TURN AROUND. AND YOU HAVE TO THINK BACK A YEAR. WE HAD THE WORSE CAR SALES ESSENTIALLY IN OVER A QUARTER OF A CENTURY. CHRYSLER HAD ACTUALLY SHUT DOWN ITS FACTORIES WHILE IT WENT THROUGH BANKRUPTCY. AND THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF WORKERS THROWN OUT OF WORK. THERE WAS SOMETHING LIKE OVER 300,000 PEOPLE LOST THEIR JOBS IN THE AUTO INDUSTRY BETWEEN 2008 AND 2009. AND THAT'S ABOUT THE SIZE OF PITTSBURGH.

>> Woodruff: MARTIN BAILEY, HOW DO YOU SEE IT, HOW MUCH HAS THE AUTO SECTOR REBOUNDED IF?

>> WELL, I THINK IT WAS ESSENTIAL THAT PRESIDENT BAILOUT THESE AUTO INDUSTRIES BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DISASTROUS WHEN THE ECONOMY WAS FALLING OFF A CLIFF NOT TO HAVE DONE IT. THE REAL QUESTION IS CAN THEY SURVIVE IN THE LONG RUN. AND THAT DEPENDS WHAT THEY DON'T. WE DO HAVE AN AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY WITH A LOT OF COMPETITORS. THE QUESTION IS CAN THOSE DETROIT COMPANIES, FORD, GM AND CHRYSLER, CAN THEY TURN IT AROUND. I THINK THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN A CHANCE. I THINK THEY HAVE A REAL SHOT AT IT BUT IT'S NOT A SURE THING YET.

>> Woodruff: WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE YOU TO, MICKEY MAYNARD, IN TERMS WHETHER THEY CAN CONTINUE WHAT HAS BEGUN?

>> I BELIEVE GENERAL MOTORS HAS THE BEST CHANCE OF DOING SO. CHRYSLER IS THE BIG QUESTION MARK. BECAUSE THEY'RE NOW UNDER THE MANAGEMENT CONTROL OF FIAT, THE ITALIAN AUTOMAKER. AND WE'VE HEARD THAT FIAT WANTS TO MAKE CHRYSLER, GIVE IT MORE FOCUS ON SMALL CARS. BUT REMEMBER, THIS IS THE COMPANY THAT BROUGHT YOU THE MINIVAN. THIS IS THE COMPANY, PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS AT A FACTORY TODAY THAT MAKES THE JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE. SO IT'S SORT OF A U-TURN FOR CHRYSLER UNDER FOREIGN MANAGEMENT. AND THAT'S GOING TO BE A TOUGHER SELL. I THINK GENERAL MOTORS HAS SEEN THE LIGHT. THEY HAVE NEW MANAGEMENT. MANY PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE ARE AT THE TOP OF GENERAL MOTORS. AND THEY KNOW THAT... THEY HAVE SORT OF STARED INTO THE ABYSS AND THEY DON'T WANT TO FALL INTO IT.

>> Woodruff: SO STAYING WITH YOU, MICKEY MAYNARD, GENERAL MOTORS ABOUT TO BE PUBLICLY TRADED, WE BELIEVE, IN THE NEXT MONTH OR SO. WHERE DOES THE BAILOUT STAND? DO YOU SEE IT AS A SUCCESS OR WHAT? HOW DO YOU JUDGE IT?

>> I THINK IT'S TOO SOON TO TELL, JUDY. GENERAL MOTORS STILL OWES THE GOVERNMENT... I SHOULDN'T SAY OWE, BECAUSE THEY WERE GIVEN THE BAILOUT FREE AND CLEAR. THEY'VE PAID BACK A SMALL LOAN THAT THEY HAD TO PAY BACK. BUT THERE IS ABOUT $45 BILLION IN TAX PAYERS' MONEY THAT IS RIDE ON THIS INITIAL PUBLIC OFFERING. THAT MEANS THAT GENERAL MOTORS WILL BE SELLING STOCK AGAIN. AND SO WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO SEE IS A COUPLE OF THINGS. GENERAL MOTORS HAS TO SELL THE STOCK. PEOPLE HAVE TO WANT TO BUY IT. THE PRICE HAS TO GO UP. AND THEN THEY ALSO HAVE TO COME OUT WITH NEW VEHICLES LIKE THE CHEVROLET VOLT THAT WE JUST SAW IN YOUR PIECE. THAT HAS TO BE A SUCCESS. THEY HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THAT CAR NOW FOR SEVERAL YEARS. AND IF THERE ARE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE VOLT, THERE MAY BE PEOPLE SAYING LOOK, WE GAVE THEM ALL THIS MONEY FOR NOTHING. I DON'T THINK GENERAL MOTORS BELIEVES THAT BUT PEOPLE WILL BE WATCHING TO SEE WHAT ITS PERFORMANCE IS.

>> Woodruff: MARTIN BAILEY, LET'S BROADEN THIS OUT. WE DID SEE IN THIS ECONOMIC REPORT TODAY THAT BUSINESS INVESTMENT WAS GROWING. THEY SAID BY A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT. WE HEARD THE PRESIDENT TODAY TALKING ABOUT THE ADVANCED BATTERY INDUSTRY AS BEING PART OF THE BROADER PICTURE, MANUFACTURING PICTURE. ARE THERE OTHER BRIGHT SPOTS OUT THERE?

>> OH, YES. I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE MANUFACTURING SECTOR, A LOT OF THE COMPANIES ARE SITTING ON A LOT OF CASH. SO THEY'VE GOT THE MONEY TO INVEST AND AS WE'VE JUST SEEN IN THE DATA SOME OF THEM DID INVEST THAT IN NEW EQUIPMENT AND NEW COMPUTERS AND SO ON. SO I THINK THEY ARE POISED TO GROW. AND THEY HAVE BEEN GROWING IN TERMS OF EXPORTS. WHAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN IS A LOT OF EMPLOYMENT. AND I THINK THAT THAT IS GOING IT TO TAKE SOME TIME. MOST OF THEM SAY,ABLE WITH, I THINK WE CAN EXPAND WITHOUT HIRING A LOT OF NEW PEOPLE FOR A WHILE. BUT EVENTUALLY IF THEY KEEP GROWING THEY WILL BE ABLE TO DO THAT. THE OTHER POSSIBLE PROBLEM ON THE HORIZON IS THAT THE DOLLAR HAS GONE UP. AND I THINK ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO GET U.S. MANUFACTURING COMPETITIVE AGAIN IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE RIGHT VALUE OF THE DOLLAR. IT'S NOT OVERVALUED. IT'S NOT DRIVING OUR COMPANIES OUT OF BUSINESS. SO THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTION MARKS THERE.

>> Woodruff: MICKEY MAYNARD, HOW DOES THE BROADER MANUFACTURING PICTURE LOOK TO YOU?

>> I AM OPTIMISTIC ABOUT MANUFACTURING BEING PART OF THE AMERICAN ECONOMY. BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN THINK OF IT IN THE WAY WE USED TO WHERE PEOPLE WOULD OPEN BIG VICTORYS AND EMPLOY 5,000 PEOPLE. AND YOU COULD GET A JOB THERE BECAUSE YOUR COUSIN OR YOUR UNCLE WORKED THERE. I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE TOYOTA PLANT IN CALIFORNIA AND FREMONT, CALIFORNIA, THAT JUST CLOSED DOWN. WHEN IT WAS A JOINT VENTURE WITH GENERAL MOTORS THEY HAD ALMOST 5,000 WORKERS. NOW THAT TOYOTA IS GOING TO BE BUILDING ELECTRIC CARS WITH A COMPANY CALLED TESLA IT'S ONLY GOING TO HAVE ABOUT 1200 WORKERS. WE'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE MANUFACTURING BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THE MEGAPLANTS OF THE PAST. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PLANTS HALF THAT SIZE AND MAYBE EVEN MUCH SMALLER THAN THAT.

>> Woodruff: MARTIN BAILEY, THE U.S. IS STILL AS OF THIS YEAR LEADING EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IN MANUFACTURING. WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE FOR THAT TO CONTINUE? I MEAN THERE IS A LOT OF SPECULATION CHINA IS GOING TO OVERTAKE NEXT YEAR. BUT WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE?

>> WELL, WE ARE VERY STRONG IN TECHNOLOGY AND I THINK WE NEED TO MAINTAIN THAT STRENGTH. SO SUPPORT FOR RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AND TECHNOLOGY. I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF TALENTED PEOPLE BUT THERE ARE SOME LIMITATIONS ON THE TALENT SIDE. I ACTUALLY THINK WE SHOULD LOOSEN UP THE REQUIREMENTS ON SOME OF THE VISAS SO THAT COMPANIES THINKING ABOUT EXPANDING KNOW THEY CAN GET THE TALENT IF THEY NEED IT.

>> Woodruff: YOU MEAN FROM ABROAD.

>> FROM ABROAD. AND THEN WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM INCLUDING OUR COMMUNITY COLLEGES IS ACTUALLY PROVIDING THE KIND OF SKILLED WORKFORCE. WE NEED PEOPLE THAT AS THE EARLIER COMMENT WAS NOT JUST TO GET A JOB BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOUR COUSIN THERE BUT BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT SKILL, THE RIGHT ABILITY TO USE A COMPUTER, TO USE THE MACHINERY. THOSE ARE THE SKILLS THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE TO GO FORWARD.

>> Woodruff: MICKEY MAYNARD, WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT WHAT THE WORKERS TOMORROW, NEXT MONTH, NEXT YEAR, NEXT DECADE HAVE TO DO TO BE READY FOR THE MANUFACTURING OF THE FUTURE?

>> IT'S GOING TO BE AN ATMOSPHERE IN WHICH YOU MAY NEED AT LEAST A COMMUNITY COLLEGE DEGREE IF NOT A BACHELOR'S DEGREE. I WORRY ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSIDERED TO BE SKILLED TRADES WORKERS WHO ALWAYS GOT A LITTLE BIT MORE MONEY AND MAYBE BETTER HOURS AND BETTER BENEFITS. WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT THE STATE OF MICHIGAN, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH A LOT OF THESE SKILLED TRADES WORKERS. BUT THEIR SKILLS ARE FOR THE 80s AND THE 90s. AND WE NEED PEOPLE WITH SKILLS TO GO FORWARD INTO THIS DECADE SO I CAN'T PUT ENOUGH EMPHASIS ON EDUCATION. AND I HOPE THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THINKING ABOUT MANUFACTURING CAREERS REALIZE THAT THEY GOING TO BE DOING A LOT OF THINKING AND INTUITION ON THE FLOOR AND THEY'RE GOING TO NEED ALL THE EDUCATION SKILLS THAT THEY CAN GET.

>> AND ARE THESE THE KINDS OF THINGS YOU ARE HEARING FROM PEOPLE YOU TALK TO INSIDE THESE INDUSTRIES?

>> YES, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO APPLY FOR JOBS, NEW FACTORIES LIKE HONDA AND TOYOTA AND NISSAN AND ELSEWHERE. THEY CAN HAVE THEIR PICK. AND THEY DON'T NEED TO PICK SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY PERFORMED WELL ON THE HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL TEAM OR BECAUSE THEY WERE FRIENDS WITH SOMEONE. THEY CAN GO THROUGH ANYTHING THEY WANT FROM ANALYTICAL SKILLS TO BRAUN TO ANY KIND OF THINKING ON THEIR FEET. IT'S VERY TOUGH. I ACTUALLY ONCE TOOK THE TRAINING PROGRAM TO BECOME AN AUTOWORKER AT TOYOTA. AND I FLUNKED AFTER TEN MINUTES. SO CLEARLY THE SKILLS THAT MAKE YOU A JOURNALIST DO NOT MAKE YOU READY FOR TODAY'S FACTORY FLOOR.

>> Woodruff: QUICK FINAL WORD ON WHAT IS GOING TO BE NEEDED, MARTIN BAILEY?

>> WELL, I THINK WE ALSO NEED MOTIVATION. A LOT OF WHAT COMPANIES FILTER ON, WHEN THEY LOOK FOR WORKERS, WHICH WORKERS THEY WANT, THEY WANT THE ONES THAT WILL SHOW UP AND WORK HARD. SO THAT IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN QUESTIONED IN THE PAST. AND THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK THAT HAS GOT TO CHANGE.

>> Woodruff: MARTIN BAILEY, MICKEY MAYNARD, THANK YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, JUDY.

>> Lehrer: AND TO THE ANALYSIS OF BROOKS AND MARCUS. "NEW YORK TIMES" COLUMNIST DAVID BROOKS AND "WASHINGTON POST" COLUMNIST RUTH MARCUS. MARK SHIELDS IS AWAY. DAVID, I HOPE YOU HEARD WHAT WAS JUST SAID ABOUT JOURNALISM SKILLS AND ALL OF THAT.

>> I WOULD BE A FANTASTIC AUTOWORKER, AS YOU KNOW.

>> Lehrer: YEAH, RIGHT. LOOK, HOW DO YOU READ THE POLITICAL FALLOUT FROM THE ARIZONA JUDGE DECISION ON IMMIGRATION?

>> YEAH, I THINK IT'S PERILOUS. I'M NOT A BIG SUPPORTER OF THAT LAW. NONETHELESS YOU HAVE A POPULATION OF PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY ARE NOT BEING LISTENED TO BY THE AUTHORITIES. THEY THINK ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS A BIG PROBLEM IN THEIR STATE FOR CRIME, FOR BUDGET REASONS, FOR A WHOLE VARIETY OF REASONS. THEY THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO DO NOT LIVE IN NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE AN ISSUE EXCEPT MAYBE AS GARDENERS AND WHO ARE NOT IN JOBS WHERE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE COMPETING. AND THEY THINK THOSE PEOPLE AREN'T LISTENING. SO THEY GO AHEAD AND THEY PASS A LAW, DEMOCRATICALLY, AND IT GETS COVERY TURNED BY A JUDGE. AND WHATEVER THE MERITS OF HER DECISION, I THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE A POLITICAL BACKLASH. AND THIS YEAR IT WILL BE A STRONG ISSUE. IT WILL RAISE THE LEVEL OF ANGER. AND IN PARTS AND TERMS HELP REPUBLICANS.

>> Lehrer: HELP REPUBLICANS AND HURT DEMOCRATS, DO YOU AGREE, RUTH?

>> NOT SO MUCH, ACTUALLY. I UNDERSTAND THE ANGER. AND I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION. AND I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN ABOUT HAVING JUDGES OVERTURN DEMOCRATICICALLY PASSED LAWS. HOWEVER FLAWED THOSE LAWS ARE. BUT THE FOLKS WHO ARE REVVED UP ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, WHO ARE ANGRY AT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION FOR FILING THIS LAWSUIT WHO ARE ANGRY AT THE JUDGE WHO HAPPENED TO BE A CLINTON APPOINTEE FOR BLOCKING THE LAW FROM GOING FORWARD, THEY ARE ALREADY PREREVED. THEY DON'T NEED ANYTHING TO MAKE THEM ANGRIER AT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION. SO I DON'T SEE THAT EXTRA BUMP FROM THEM. AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, THE FOLKS WHO ARE DEMOCRATIC BASE, A LITTLE UNHAPPY WITH THE PRESIDENT, I DON'T THINK THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE REVVED UP AND PARTICULARLY ENERGIZED BY THE ADMINISTRATION FIGHTING THE ARIZONA LAW. BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEY KNOW, HE'S NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DELIVER COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM, CERTAINLY NOT BEFORE THE ELECTION. IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO DO IT AFTERWARDS TO THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY. THIS IS AT LEAST SOMETHING THAT HE CAN GIVE TO THAT COMMUNITY, TO OTHERS WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT PROVIDING A RATIONAL IMMIGRATION SYSTEM. NOT THAT IT'S GOING TO HELP HIM IN 2010 BUT IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL IN 2012.

>> Lehrer: HOW DO YOU SEE THAT, DAVID THAT THERE IS ANOTHER SIDE OF THIS. AMONG LATINOS, AND OTHERS WHO THINK AT LEAST ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, AT LEAST, THAT THE PRESIDENT IS DOING SOMETHING. YOU DON'T THINK --

>> I DON'T SEE EVIDENCE THAT IT IS HAPPENING. THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF HEARTBURN IN THE LATINO COMMUNITY HERE IN WASHINGTON AMONG THE ACTIVISTS, THAT MORE CAN BE DONE IN IMMIGRATION. AND CLEARLY THE WHITE HOUSE AND IMMIGRANTS WANT TO GET LATINO VOTERS OUT TO THE POLLS. BUT SO FAR WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS ON INTENSITY, SO FAR YOU JUST DON'T SEE IT. AND JUST ON THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE UP SET ABOUT IMMIGRATION, THERE IS THE HARD-CORE TALK RADIO TYPES WHO, RUTH IS RIGHT, ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE FOR THE REPUBLICANS AND NEVER GOING TO BE FOR OBAMA. BUT I'M REALLY STRUCK BY HOW BROAD HOSTILITY TOWARD ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS. YOU GO TO TOWN HALL MEETINGS IT IS REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT, THE QUESTION ALWAYS COMES UP, IT IS ALWAYS A SIMILAR SORT OF QUESTION, HOW CAN THAT FENCE BE. SO I THINK IT IS A BROAD ISSUE. YOU KNOW, ECONOMICALLY IT'S JUST KNOT THAT IMPORTANT. BUT SYMBOLICALLY IT'S A SENSE OF PLAYING BY THE RULES. AND SO I THINK IT'S A BROAD ISSUE THAT TOUCHES A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> IT'S OBVIOUSLY AN EMOTIONAL ISSUE. I GUESS MY POINT IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SO ANGERED ABOUT PEOPLE THEY SEE, OR IMAGINE TO BE TAKING THEIR JOBS, THEY ARE ALREADY ANGRY. THEY ALREADY HAVE SO MANY BEEFS WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, CORRECT OR NOT, THAT I'M NOT SURE I SEE THIS AS UPING WHAT IS ALREADY A PRETTY HIGH INTENSITY LEVEL OF UNHAPPINESS THAT IS GOING TO COST THE DEMOCRATS IN NOVEMBER.

>> Lehrer: SPEAKING ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO COST THE DEMOCRAT S IN NOVEMBER WHERE IS IT THAT CHARLIE RANGEL SITUATION FIT? THAT IS CALLED A SEGUE.

>> VERY NICELY DONE. THIS IS A DISASTER FOR CHARLIE RANGEL. AND IT IS... .

>> Lehrer: AS AN INDIVIDUAL.

>> AS AN INDIVIDUAL AND IT IS A NEAR DISASTER FOR DEMOCRATS AS A PARTY. YOU COULD IMAGINE IF CHARLIE RANGEL HAD COLE UDED WITH JOHN BOEHNER, THE HOUSE MINORITY LEADER AND SAID I WANT TO HELP YOU GUYS OUT, AS A SECRET REPUBLICAN, WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO HANDLE THIS AND THE BEST TIMING, IT WOULD BE LET'S HAVE A TRIAL, A FULL-FLEDGED TRIAL WITH WITNESSES AND OPEN HEARINGS AND TESTIMONY IN SEPTEMBER, RIT BEFORE THE ELECTION. SO WE CAN HEAR A LOT OF CLIPS ON REPUBLICAN COMMERCIALS ABOUT FROM NANCY PELOSI THE SPEAKER ABOUT HOW SHE IS GOING TO DRAIN THE SWAMP. UNBELIEVABLE. AND IT'S NOT THAT THAT IS GOING TO ENERGIZE... I AM A LITTLE BIT CONTRADICTING MYSELF.

>> Lehrer: IT'S OKAY. HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

>> THOSE VOTERS ARE ALREADY UNHAPPY. BUT IT JUST DIMINISHES A SENSE THAT THESE GUYS, THE DEMOCRATS ARE ANY DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER GUYS. THE OTHER SLEAZY GUYS WHO GOT KICKED OUT. THAT ANYTHING CAN EVER CHANGE IN WASHINGTON THAT THEY ARE ALL CORRUPT IT IS JUST THE LAST THING ON EARTH THE DEMOCRATS NEED.

>> I THINK THESE SCANDALS ACTUALLY DO HAVE A BIG CUM LATIVE EFFECT. IT CERTAINLY DOES ON THE REPUBLICANS. I SAW IT IN BRITAIN TO THE TORY PARTY. WHEN YOU HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM PEOPLE SAY ENOUGH, ENOUGH, ENOUGH EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT POLITICAL PEOPLE. THE RANGEL THING IS JUST AN ILLUSTRATION OF THE SORTS OF CHARACTER FLAWS THAT GROW. I HAVE NO BEEF AGAINST CHARLIE RANGEL, I DIDN'T UNTIL A COUPLE YEARS AGO AS A PERSON, VERY CHARMING GUY, LIVE LeGOOD, QUITE A GOT LEGISLATOR, ACTUALLY, TO BE FAIR. BUT YOU DO GET ARROGANT AN A SENSE THAT THE RULES AREN'T APPLYING TO ME. AND MOST GERMANE THIS WEEK, YOU GET A SENSE OF I'M RIGHT AND THEY'RE ALL WRONG AND I WILL SHOW THEM. AND IT'S REALLY AMAZING. THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS, MOST DEMOCRATS, THE IDEA THAT HE HAS DECIDED TO FIGHT THIS RATHER THAN JUST WITHDRAW OR CONCEDE OR DO SOMETHING. AND HE WAS GIVEN AVENUES TO DO THIS IT AND HE SAID NO. AND PRESUMABLY HE WANTS TO SAVE HIS REPUTATION. WELL, GOOD LUCK TO IMHAD. BUT HE MUST HAVE PERSUADED HIMSELF CAN DO SO. I DON'T KNOW WHAT EVIDENCE HE LOOKS AT.

>> Lehrer: WHAT ABOUT SOME OF THE RHETORIC YESTERDAY FROM SOME OF THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE WHICH SAID THAT THE VERY INTEGRITY OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES IS AT STAKE IN THIS. DO YOU SEE IT THAT BIG?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS RECENTLY, THE PUBLIC IMAGE OF CONGRESS IS AT THE HISTORIC LOW, 11% APPROVAL ONCE ONE OF THE MEMBERS MENTIONED THAT YESTERDAY, IN FACT.

>> SO SOME SENSE THEIR CREDIBILITY IS ALREADY HANGING BY A VERY SLENDER THREAD. AND THIS WILL JUST EXACERBATE THAT. AND HE IS NOT ONLY A HOUSE MEMBER, HE WAS CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE, THE MOST IMPORTANT COMMITTEE. AND SO GREAT SYMBOL OF THE HOUSE. AND IT WILL JUST BE ONE MORE NAIL IN THE COFFIN OF WASHINGTON PRESTIGE.

>> Lehrer: WHAT ABOUT THE OLD THING OF INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT'S FOR CRIMINAL TRIALS. AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO ASSURE THE COMMITTEE THAT IS THE KIND OF TRIAL BODY SHOULD BE OPEN MINDED. BUT LOOK, NOBODY HAS EVER ACCUSED THE HOUSE ETHICS COMMITTEE OF BEING TRIGGER HAPPY. I WAS HERE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER HE WOULD GIVE UP THE CHAIRMANSHIP BACK IN DECEMBER OF 2009. THE HOUSE ETHICS COMMITTEE IS DIVIDED ONLYLY BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS IT IS A BODY THAT IS DESIGNED TO DO NOTHING. SO WHEN IT ROUSES ITSELF TO DO SOMETHING YOU KNOW IT'S BECAUSE SOMETHING, I'M SORRY, I READ THE REPORT TODAY. YOU CANNOT READ THAT REPORT ABOUT WHAT MR. RANGEL IS ALLEGED TO HAVE DONE AND THINK THIS WAS ADEQUATE, ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR. IF ANYTHING, I'M ROUSED RIGHT NOW THAT APPARENTLY THE SANCTION THAT WAS RECOMMENDED AND THAT HE REFUSED TO PLEAD TO WAS A SIMPLE REPRIMAND BECAUSE ACTUALLY I THINK HIS BEHAVIOR IS MORE SERIOUS THAN A REPRIMAND WHICH IS UNWITH OF THE LESSER PENALTIES FOR THE HOUSE TO IMPOSE.

>> DO YOU BUY THE REPORTING WHICH SAYS THAT THE STICKING POINT HAS BEEN FROM THE BEGINNING HE WILL NOT ADMIT THAT HE DID ANYTHING WRONG, RIGHT?

>> FROM WHAT I READ TODAY, HE SEEMS TO HAVE HAD AMPLE OPPORTUNITIES TO ADMIT THAT HE DID SOMETHING WRONG AND LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE ALLEGES. HE FAILED TO REPORT 600,000 DOLLARS IN INCOME ON HIS FINANCIAL-DISCLOSURE FORMS. NOT FORGETTING ONE OR TWO THINGS BUT FORGETTING A WHOLE SLEW OF STUFF. HE FAILED-- AND THIS IS THE FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE TAX WRITING COMMITTEE, FAILED TO PAY TAXES ON ALL OF HIS INCOME. AND MOST DISTURBING, HE WAS TALKING TO LOBBYISTS AND TALKING TO COMPANIES AND SOLICITING MONEY FROM THEM FOR THE CHARLIE RANGEL LEADERSHIP CENTER WHILE THEY HAD BUSINESS BEFORE HIS COMMITTEE BECAUSE THERE IS A GREAT LINE IN ONE OF THE DOCUMENTS I READ, OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS THAT WELL, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO AVOID DEATH AS A LEGISLATIVE MATTER BUT NOBODY CAN AVOID TAXES AS A LEGISLATIVE MATTER SO EVERYBODY HAS BEEN IN BUSINESS BEFORE HIS COMMITTEE. HE WAS ASKING THEM FOR MONEY. AIG, OF ALL THE COMPANIES, SAID THEY HAD SOME WORRIES ABOUT THE HEADLINE APPEARANCE OF GIVING HIM MONEY. WHEN AIG THINKS IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT OF A STICKY ETHICAL WICKET, YOU GOT A PROBLEM.

>> Lehrer: ALL RIGHT. MOVING AGAIN TO ETHICAL STICKY WICKETS THE WICK PEDESTRIANIA-- NO, SORRY, THE WICKI LEEKS OF THE MILITARY DOCUMENTS INVOLVING AFGHAN TAN, THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE AND THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS SAID YESTERDAY THIS IS, LIVES ARE NOW AT RISK BECAUSE OF THIS. THIS IS A NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE AND A MAJOR WAY. HOW DO YOU READ IT?

>> THE DEFENSE EXPERTS I'VE HEARD FROM SAY THAT IT'S A THREAD MAYBE NOT QUITE AS STRONG AS MULLENS. MULLENS CAME OUT VERY STRONGLY. KARZAI HAS COME OUT VERY STRONGLY, GATES VERY STRONGLY. BUT IT IS CERTAINLY A THREAT TO THOSE AFGHANS. THE TIMES OF LONDON DID A QUICK LOOK AT WHAT IS ON-LINE AND FOUND THE NAMES AND VILLAGES OF AFGHANS, A GREAT NUMBER OF THEM WITHOUT TOO MUCH TROUBLE.

>> Lehrer: THOSE HAVE NOT APPEARED IN PRINT BUT THEY ARE ON-LINE. DID THEY PUT THE WHOLE THING.

>> THERE ARE TWO THINGS, FIRST THAT MAKES IT THAT PUTS THEIR LIVES AT RISK AND IT MICKS IT MUCH LESS LIKELY PEOPLE WILL COOPERATE AND THAT IS JUST BAD FOR OUR TROOPS. THE SECOND ISSUE AND I THINK THE ISSUE ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING IS, AND I HATE TO SOUND LIKE AN OLD MEDIA DINOSAUR T IS WHY WE HAVE INSTITUTIONS LIKE "THE WASHINGTON POST" AND "NEW YORK TIMES". BECAUSE WE TAKE DOCUMENTS, WE PROVIDE CONTEXT, WE HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE IN THE MILITARY AND SAY WHAT IS GOOD WHAT IS BAD, YOU KNOW, ARE WE CROSSING ANY LINES HERE. AND THOSE AREN'T ALWAYS HAPPY CONVERSATIONS BUT THEY'RE CONVERSATIONS. AND THEN WE ACTUALLY IN AN IDEAL WORLD ARE REASONABLY CAREFUL ABOUT NOT GETTING PEOPLE KILLED. AND I'M NOT SURE WICKI LEAKS HAS A DEFENSE BUT IT SUBJECT SEEM VERY FIRM AS COMPARED TO WHAT AN OLD NORMAL MEDIA INSTITUTION WOULD DO.

>> IT IS NOT WHAT AN OLD MEDIA, AS A FELLOW DINOSAUR , DINOSETT, WHATEVER IS IT, "THE WASHINGTON POST" JUST WENT THROUGH THIS WITH THE ADMINISTRATION ON THE PIECE WE DID ABOUT TOP SECRET AMERICA WHERE THE ARGUMENT WAS, LIVES COULD BE LOST BECAUSE ARE YOU IDENTIFYING WHERE THESE BUILDINGS ARE AND YES IT IS PUBLIC DOMAIN BUT NOW IT IS ON THE INTERNET. VERY SIMILAR. I'M A LITTLE BIT KIND OF JUST INHERENTLY INTICKET-- INSTINCTIVELY SKEPTICAL OF CLAIMS OF NATIONAL SECURITY HARM BECAUSE THEY HAVE HISTORICALLY TENDED TO BE OVERBLOWN. I ALSO THINK THAT THE WIKILEAKS FOLKS DID EXERT AT LEAST, EXPEND AT LEAST SOME EFFORT IN TRYING TO KEEP SOME OF THE MORE DANGEROUS AND EXPLOSIVE AND NATIONAL SECURITY RELATED INFORMATION OUT OF THE PUBLIC DOMAIN. BUT I SHARE DAVID'S CONCERN AND I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T WANT THAT ON MY CONSCIENCE.

>> Lehrer: DO YOU BOTH AGREE THAT LIKE IT OR NOT, THIS HAS CHANGED THINGS FOREVER FOR PEOPLE IN OUR LINE OF WORK?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE ALREADY FELT SOME PUSHBACK FROM THE STANLEY McCHRYSTAL STORY. I THINK THE MILITARY WAS QUITE BURNED ABOUT JOURNALISM, HOW MUCH ACCESS SHOULD WE GIVE. AND THEY ARE CERTAINLY GOING TO BE CAREFUL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS HAPPENED IS THEY HAVE SHARED INFORMATION DOWN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND. AND I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO PULL BACK BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID SOME JUNIOR OFFICER MIGHT LEAK SOMETHING.

>> Lehrer: AS A RESULT OF THIS.

>> CORRECT. SO IT'S HARMFUL DOWN THE ROAD.

>> Lehrer: DO YOU AGREE?

>> WELL, TIMES HAVE CHANGED. THINGS, THERE IS NO SUCH THING REALLY AS OFF THE RECORD ANY MORE. IT USED TO BE WHEN YOU ARE ON THE CAMPAIGN PLAIN IT WAS A KIND OF NEWS-FREE ZONE. NOW THE CANDIDATE GOES TO THE BACK OF THE PLANE AND EVERYBODY GETS OUT THEIR LITTLE VIDEO CAMERAS. SO IT'S A DIFFERENT WORLD. YOU KNOW, WE CAN RAIL AGAINST IT BUT WE JUST ARE DINOSAURS.

>> Lehrer: WE HAVE TO LIVE IN IT. OKAY, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH.

>> Woodruff: FINALLY TONIGHT, A ROCK STAR TRIES OUT A GRAND NEW BACKUP BAND. JEFFREY BROWN TALKS TO STING.

>> Reporter: CALL IT "STING WITH STRINGS." STING IS ROCK 'N ROLL ROYALTY-- AN INTERNATIONAL POP STAR. THE STRINGS ARE PART OF THE ROYAL PHILHARMONIC CONCERT ORCHESTRA, WHICH IS HELPING HIM RE-CREATE PAST HITS WITH A VERY DIFFERENT SOUND. THE SINGER AND HIS BAND ARE IN THE MIDST OF AN AMERICAN AND WORLD TOUR AND HAVE RELEASED A NEW RECORDING, TITLED "SYMPHONICITIES." ♪ BORN GORDON SUMNER AND RAISED IN NEWCASTLE, ENGLAND, STING BURST ON THE ROCK SCENE IN THE 1970s AS LEAD SINGER AND BASS PLAYER FOR THE POLICE, A THREE-MEMBER ROCK BAND THAT RECORDED NUMEROUS HIT SONGS AND SOLD MILLIONS OF ALBUMS. ♪ THE GROUP SPLIT IN 1984 AND, OTHER THAN A REUNION TOUR SEVERAL YEARS BACK, STING HAS BEEN ON HIS OWN EVER SINCE WITH MORE HIT SONGS AND SEVERAL UNEXPECTED TWISTS. IN 2006, HE RECORDED THE SONGS OF ELIZABETHAN COMPOSER JOHN DOWLAND. ♪ AND LAST YEAR, STING AND HIS WIFE, TRUDY STYLER, PRESENTED A THEATER PERFORMANCE BASED ON THE LIVES AND WORDS OF COMPOSER ROBERT SCHUMANN AND HIS WIFE CLARA. NOW, AT 58, HE'S GOT THE ORCHESTRA, NOT FOR CLASSICAL COMPOSITIONS, BUT FOR HIS OWN. ♪ AND WHEN WE TALKED RECENTLY AT HIS NEW YORK APARTMENT, MY FIRST QUESTION WAS: WHY?

>> IT'S MY JOB AS A SONG WRITER TO KEEP THESE SONGS ALIVE AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. FOR EXAMPLE, I HAVE TO SING SONGS TOMORROW NIGHT IN BOSTON THAT I MAY HAVE WRITTEN 30 YEARS AGO, 35 YEARS AGO. WITH AS MUCH PASSION AND COMMITMENT AS IF I'D WRITTEN THEM THIS AFTERNOON. SO I'M CONSTANTLY LOOKING FOR DIFFERENT WAYS OF LOOKING AT THE SONGS, OF INTERPRETING A SONG ALLOWING THE SONGS TO EVOLVE AS A STORY TELLER, AS SINGER AND SO I'M ALWAYS LOOKING FOR DIFFERENT WAYS OF INTERPRETING. THEY ARE NOT MUSEUM PIECES THAT ARE SET IN STONE. THEY ARE LIVING ARTIFACTS FOR ME.

>> Reporter: WHY THOUGH WITH AN ORCHESTRA? WHAT DO YOU GAIN FROM REWORKING OR REIMAGINING, IF THAT'S HOW YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

>> WELL, THERE IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF EGO INVOLVED YOU KNOW IF...

>> Reporter: A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF EGO?

>> YES. STAND UP THERE IN FRONT OF A SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE THAT REALLY DOES MASSAGE THE EGO SOMEHOW. AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING I EVER EXPECTED TO DO TO BE FRANK.

>> Reporter: YOU HAVE STOOD IN FRONT OF THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE LOOKING AT YOU BUT, YOU MEAN TO HAVE A SYMPHONY BEHIND IS YOU DIFFERENT?

>> TO HAVE THEM BEHIND, YOU KNOW THAT'S THE ROYAL PHILHARMONICA THIS IS NOT JUST ANY OLD ORCHESTRA. THIS IS A SERIOUS ORCHESTRA SO IN A WAY IT DOES FLATTER MY EGO BUT ALSO I HAVE TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND YOU KNOW HIT THEM SO IT'S A BIG CHALLENGE FOR ME.

>> Reporter: SO HOW DO YOU DO THAT? I'VE HEARD A LOT OF ROCK AND POP MUSICIANS BRING IN AN ORCHESTRA, AND YOU HAVE, TOO-- HOW DO YOU USE THE MUSICIANSHIP THAT IS AVAILABLE? BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT CAN HAPPEN: THEY JUST SORT OF PROVIDE A BACKGROUND.

>> EXACTLY, IT CAN BECOME MUSICAL WALLPAPER WHERE THE VIOLINS ARE JUST PLAYING BORING WHOLE NOTES BEHIND A POP BALLAD. I DIDN'T WANT THAT. I SAID TO THE ARRANGERS, I SAID, "LOOK, I WANT THE ORCHESTRA WORKING RHYTHMICALLY AS IF THEY WERE PLAYING STRAVINSKY WITH THAT SAME COMMITMENT, THAT SAME RHYTHMIC PASSION BECAUSE THEN THEY'LL ENJOY IT BETTER. I'LL ENJOY IT AND SO WILL THE AUDIENCE." AND THIS EXACTLY WHAT WE DID. THERE IS ENOUGH HARMONIC MOVEMENT WITHIN THOSE SONGS TO WARRANT A SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA ADDRESSING IT. IF THERE WASN'T, I WOULDN'T DO IT.

>> Reporter: BUT IS SOMETHING LOST? I MEAN, AS SOMEONE WHO GREW UP WITH ROCK AND ROLL, INCLUDING YOUR MUSIC, MUCH OF THE POWER OF THE MUSIC IS THE RAWNESS AND THE EDGE. WHAT HAPPENS WITHOUT THAT?

>> YOU HAVE TO MAKE A TRADE BETWEEN HAVING THIS HUGE VERY RICH PALLET OF COLOR TO WORK WITH WHICH IS THE SYMPHONIC SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA AS AGAINST HAVING THIS EDGY KIND OF SPONTANEOUS ALMOST IMPROVISED FEEL OF A ROCK SONG. SO YOU GIVE THAT UP BUT IN EXCHANGE YOU GET THIS HUGE ALMOST A CONTINENT OF COLOR AND SO IT'S AN EXCHANGE I'VE BEEN WILLING TO MAKE. THERE ARE COMPROMISES YOU HAVE TO MAKE. CLASSICAL MUSICIANS HEAR TIME IN A DIFFERENT WAY. TIME FOR THEM IS MUCH MORE ELASTIC, WHEREAS TIME FOR ROCK MUSICIANS IN MODERN MUSIC IS VERY, VERY STRICT, IN STRICT TEMPO. TIME IN CLASSICAL MUSIC, IT'S MUCH MORE-- IT KIND OF BREATHES MORE AND SO YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO DO THAT. ALSO THE CONDUCTOR NEVER GIVES YOU A DOWNBEAT HE GIVES YOU AN UPBEAT. COMPLETELY OPPOSITE. SO WE'VE HAD TO LEARN HOW TO READ THAT AND THEN READ EACH OTHER.

>> Reporter: TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS TRANSFORMATION, TAKE A SONG, ONE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW LIKE "ROXANNE" FOR EXAMPLE. HOW DID YOU SEE YOURSELF TRANSFORMING THAT FROM THE ONE WE KNOW FROM MANY YEARS AGO TO NOW.

>> WELL, THAT'S AN INTERESTING EXAMPLE BECAUSE "ROXANNE" BEGAN WITH JUST ME ON A GUITAR PLAYING A KIND OF BOSSA NOVA RHYTHM SINGING THE SAME LYRIC AND THE SAME MELODY BUT WITH A DIFFERENT FEEL AND THEN I TOOK IT TO THE BAND, THE THREE PIECE BAND, THE POLICE, AND MADE IT MUCH EDGIER. ♪ WHICH IS WHAT PEOPLE KNOW AS "ROXANNE." THEN WHEN I WENT TO THE ORCHESTRA I WENT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL WAY IT WAS WRITTEN. ♪

>> Reporter: YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE EGO OF HAVING THE ORCHESTRA. YOU KNOW THAT IN SOME QUARTERS PEOPLE ROLL THEIR EYES, RIGHT? THEY SAY, "THERE HE GOES AGAIN."

>> YEAH, I LIKE THAT.

>> Reporter: YOU LIKE THAT?

>> BECAUSE THERE I DO GO AGAIN. I REFUSE TO BE SAT IN A CORNER IN THE CLASSROOM OR STUCK IN A BOX. I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT.

>> Reporter: EVEN IF YOU GET ACCUSED OF VARIOUS PRETENTIOUS FOR PLAYING THE LUTE, NOW THE ORCHESTRA.

>> I LOVE THAT WORD "PRETENTIOUS." I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT IT MEANS-- IT MEANS "PRETENDING" AND FOR ME IT'S ABOUT EXPERIMENTING AND TAKING A RISK AND PUTTING YOURSELF IN THE POSITION OF A STUDENT CONSTANTLY WHERE I'M HERE TO LEARN ESSENTIALLY. I'M HERE TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY THE LUTE; I'M HERE TO LEARN HOW TO SING IN FRONT OF AN ORCHESTRA, I'M HERE TO LEARN HOW TO ARRANGE FOR AN ORCHESTRA. I'M NOT A FINISHED PRODUCT. I NEVER WILL BE. I'M A WORK IN PROGRESS. IF THAT'S PRETENTIOUS-- GUILTY! I'M CARD-CARRYING BONAFIDE PRETENTIOUS. ( LAUGHING )

>> Reporter: THERE IS INEVITABLY THE AGING, WELL, THERE'S THE AGING BABY BOOMER, THERE'S THE AGING ROCK STAR, RIGHT, TRYING TO DO IT GRACEFULLY.

>> I ALWAYS FOUND THAT PHRASE ODD. THE AGING ROCK STAR. AGING TO ME DOESN'T SEEM TO BE PARTICULAR A PEJORATIVE AND IN MANY WAYS I'VE ENJOYED THIS DECADE-- I'M 58 NOW-- MORE THAN ANY OTHER. SO BY EXTENSION I'M HOPING THAT MY NEXT DECADE WILL BE JUST AS MUCH FUN. BUT I THINK ITS REALLY ABOUT FLEXIBILITY IN THE MIND BEING ABLE TO TAKE ON NEW THINGS, LEARNING NEW SKILLS THAT'S HOW TO STAY AT LEAST YOUNG IN SPIRIT. I THINK I'VE MANAGED THAT.

>> Reporter: ALL RIGHT, STING THANKS FOR LETTING US COME TALK TO YOU.

>> THANK YOU. IT'S A PLEASURE.

>> Woodruff: AGAIN, THE MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS OF THE DAY: SIX MORE AMERICAN TROOPS WERE KILLED IN AFGHANISTAN MAKING A RECORD 66 FOR JULY. ECONOMIC GROWTH SLOWED AGAIN IN THE SECOND QUARTER, STAYING WELL BELOW LEVELS NEEDED TO BRING DOWN UNEMPLOYMENT. AND B.P.'S NEW BOSS SAID THE COMPANY IS SET TO SCALE BACK ITS CLEANUP IN THE GULF OF MEXICO NOW THAT A DAMAGED OIL WELL IS CAPPED. THE "NEWSHOUR" IS ALWAYS ONLINE. HARI SREENIVASAN, IN OUR NEWSROOM, PREVIEWS WHAT'S THERE. HARI?

>> Sreenivasan: THERE'S MORE FROM DAVID BROOKS AND RUTH MARCUS ON THE RUNDOWN. TWO DIFFERENT VIEWS ON THE IMMIGRATION DEBATE IN ARIZONA-- THOSE OF AN IMMIGRANT FAMILY AND OF A TALK SHOW HOST IN PHOENIX. AND WE CHECK IN WITH STEVE MYERS OF THE POYNTER INSTITUTE ABOUT THE LONG-TERM IMPACT OF WIKILEAKS ON BOTH NEWS ORGANIZATIONS AND GOVERNMENTS. PLUS ON "ART BEAT," JEFFREY BROWN TALKS TO AN EDITOR AT "PUBLISHERS WEEKLY" ABOUT A RECENT DEAL BETWEEN THE WYLIE LITERARY AGENCY AND AMAZON TO SELL DIGITAL VERSIONS OF SOME CLASSIC TITLES, BYPASSING THE USUAL PUBLISHER. ALL THAT AND MORE IS ON OUR WEB SITE, newshour.pbs.org.

>> Lehrer: AND AGAIN, TO OUR HONOR ROLL OF AMERICAN SERVICE PERSONNEL KILLED IN THE IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN CONFLICTS. WE ADD THEM AS THEIR DEATHS ARE MADE OFFICIAL AND PHOTOGRAPHS BECOME AVAILABLE. HERE, IN SILENCE, ARE NINE MORE.

>> Woodruff: AND THAT'S THE "NEWSHOUR" FOR TONIGHT. ON MONDAY, WE'LL LOOK AT CORRUPTION IN AFGHANISTAN. I'M JUDY WOODRUFF.

>> Lehrer: AND I'M JIM LEHRER. "WASHINGTON WEEK" CAN BE SEEN LATER THIS EVENING ON MOST PBS STATIONS. WE'LL SEE YOU ON-LINE AND AGAIN HERE MONDAY EVENING. HAVE A NICE WEEKEND. THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT. MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY: AND BY THE ALFRED P. SLOAN FOUNDATION. SUPPORTING SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, AND IMPROVED ECONOMIC PERFORMANCE AND FINANCIAL LITERACY IN THE 21ST CENTURY. AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU. Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org