PBS NewsHour; August 30, 2010 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS

>> Woodruff: GOOD EVENING. I'M JUDY WOODRUFF. SEVEN U.S. TROOPS WERE KILLED IN ROADSIDE BOMB ATTACKS IN SOUTHERN AFGHANISTAN TODAY.

>> Suarez: AND I'M RAY SUAREZ. ON THE NEWSHOUR TONIGHT, WE GET ANALYSIS OF THE LATEST VIOLENCE AND THE CHARGES OF CORRUPTION WITHIN THE KARZAI GOVERNMENT.

>> Woodruff: THEN WE HAVE THE FIRST OF A WEEK OF STORIES FROM MARGARET WARNER IN BAGHDAD. TONIGHT SHE REPORTS ON IRAQIS TAKING OVER AS U.S. FORCES DRAW DOWN.

>> ESPECIALLY AS CONTROL OF IT, THEY ARE MY PARTNERS, THEY PROTECT ME. THEY HAVE FOR THE LAST MONTHS. I TRUST THEM IMPLICITLY.

>> Suarez: KATE ZERNIKE OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES" AND DAVID VON DREHLE OF "TIME" MAGAZINE ASSESS THE GLENN BECK PHENOMENON AND THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT AFTER THE WEEKEND RALLY IN WASHINGTON.

>> Woodruff: AND JEFFREY BROWN FINDS OUT WHAT THIS YEAR'S EMMY AWARDS SAY ABOUT THE BUSINESS OF ENTERTAINMENT TELEVISION. THAT'S ALL AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S NEWSHOUR. MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY: AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU.

>> Suarez: THE LATEST U.S. CASUALTY NUMBERS OUT OF AFGHANISTAN WERE GRIM INDEED-- 14 KILLED IN THE PAST THREE DAYS. THEY DIED IN A SERIES OF NEW ATTACKS BY TALIBAN INSURGENTS.

>> SEVEN AMERICANS WERE KILLED TODAY IN TWO ROADSIDE BOMBS IN SOUTHERN AFGHANISTAN. SEVEN OTHERS DIED OVER THE WEEKEND MAKING A TOTAL OF 49 KILLED IN AUGUST FOLLOWING THE RECORD 66 IN JULY. SATURDAY SAW PREDAWN INSURGENT RAIDS ON TWO FORWARD OPERATING BASES IN THE EASTERN CITY. ONE BASE CAMP CHAPMAN WAS WHERE AN AL QUITEAR DOUBLE AGENT KILLED 7 CIA PERSONNEL LAST DECEMBER. THE SATURDAY ASSAULTS WERE THE LATEST TO TARGET LARGE U.S. INSTALLATIONS. SOME OF THE ATTACKERS REPORTEDLY WORE AMERICAN MILITARY FAT AGENCYS OVER THEIR SUICIDE VESTS. AT LEAST 21 INSURGENTS DIED BUT THERE WERE NO COALITION CASUALTIES. BUT AFGHAN PRESIDENT HAM I HAD KARZAI FOUND LITTLE TO BE PLEASED ABOUT. ON SUNDAY HE SHORTLY CRITICIZED COALITION STRATEGY SAYING IT HAS BEEN INEFFECTIVE APART FROM CAUSING CIVILIAN CASUALTIES. KARZAI'S COMPLAINT CAME AMID NEW TENSIONS WITH THE U.S. OVER THE FESTERING ISSUE OF WIDE SPREAD CORRUPTION IN HIS GOVERNMENT. THE ISSUE WAS FRONT AND CENTER TEN DAYS AGO WHEN THE CHAIRMAN OF THE U.S. SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE JOHN KERRY VISITED CABUL.

>> I WAS VERY HEARTENED TO HEAR THE PRESIDENT AND MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNMENT RECOMMIT THEMSELVES TO SIGNIFICANT EFFORTS IN THE DAYS AHEAD TO GUARANTEE THE INDEPENDENT OPERATION OF THEIR MAJOR CRIMES UNIT AS AN AFGHAN INSTITUTION, SOVEREIGN AFGHAN INSTITUTION.

>> KARZAI PLEDGED IN TURN TO LET THAT INDEPENDENT TEAM CONTINUE ITS WORK. ALL IT BE WITH A CAVEAT .

>> THE INVESTIGATION BODY WITH CONCERN TO THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, WHICH BEGAN TO LOOK AT, WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT THESE BODIES ARE ACCORDING TO AFGHAN LAWS.

>> Suarez: BUT ON SUNDAY "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTED KARZAI FIRED A TOP PROSECUTOR WHO CLAIMED HIS INVESTIGATIONS OF HIGH OFFICIALS HAD BEEN REPEATEDLY BLOCKED. IN WASHINGTON, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN PJ CROWLEY VOICED CONCERN TODAY.

>> WHAT HE WAS DOING WAS VITALLY IMPORTANT TO FIGHTING CORRUPTION IN AFGHANISTAN. IT IS AN AREA THAT WE ARE WATCHING CLOSELY. WE ARE CONCERNED BY RECENT PRONOUNCEMENTS, RECENT ACTIONS BY THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT.

>> THERE WAS ALSO WORD THAT PRESIDENT KARZAI PERSONALLY INTERVENED TO FREE AN AIDE ACCUSED OF BRIBERY. THE TIMES SAID THAT AIDE WAS ALSO A PAID CIA INFORMANT. AND "THE WASHINGTON POST" REPORTED A NUMBER OF KARZAI ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS ARE ON THE AGENCY PAYROLL. THAT COULD MEAN THE CUA IS PAYING THE VERY SAME AFGHANS WHOSE OUSTER IS BEING URGED BY OTHER AMERICAN OFFICIALS. MEANTIME, OUTSIDE THE PALACE WALLS, THE VIOLENCE AND BODY COUNTS GROW PUTTING 2010 ON PACE TO BE THE BLOODIEST YEAR YET IN THE NINE-YEAR WAR. FOR MORE ON ALL FOR MORE ON ALL THIS, WE'RE JOINED BY TWO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CLOSELY FOLLOWING THE U.S. STRATEGY IN AFGHANISTAN. RETIRED LIEUTENANT COLONEL JOHN NAGL, WHO IS NOW PRESIDENT OF THE CENTER FOR A NEW AMERICAN SECURITY. AND BRIAN KATULIS, A SENIOR FELLOW AT THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS. HE WAS ON THE STAFF OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL DURING THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. HIS LIEUTENANT COLONEL NAGEL WE'VE HAD BACK-TO-BACK DAYS OF HEAVY CASUALTYS IN AFGHANISTAN. IS THAT RISE IN CASUALTIES SIMILAR TO THE ONE WE EXPERIENCED IN IRAQ DURING THE SURGE?

>> I THINK THERE ARE SOME SIMILARITYS IN THAT WE HAVE FORCES MOVING INTO PLACES THEY HAVEN'T ABOUT IN BEFORE. WE HAVE MORE FORCES ON THE GROUND THAN WE'VE EVER HAD BEFORE. BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT GRIEVOUS AS THESE LOSSES WERE OVER THE WEEKEND, THE TOTAL CASUALTIES, U.S. CASUALTIES FOR AFGHANISTAN IN AUGUST TO DATE ARE 49. WE LOST 66 LAST MONTH IN JULY. SO THIS HAS BEEN A PARTICULARLY BAD WEEKEND BUT NOT A PARTICULARLY BAD MONTH IN WHAT IS SHAPING UP TO BE A VERY DIFFICULT YEAR AS U.S. FORCES RAMP UP.

>> Suarez: IS THIS SIMILAR TO THE WAY WE WERE TOLD, BRIAN KATULIS, DURING THE IRAQ SURGE THAT THINGS WOULD GET WORSE BEFORE THEY GET BETER?

>> I THINK IT IS. AND I THINK THE PEOPLE THAT THE U.S. FORCES ARE FACING OVER THERE ARE AN INSURGENCY. AND THEY DON'T LIKE FOREIGN TROOPS. AND UNFORTUNATELY WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN AFGHANISTAN IS THAT A LARGE NUMBER OF AFGHANS DON'T SUPPORT THE PRESENCE OF FOREIGN TROOPS AND I THINK WE WILL SEE MORE OF THIS AS MORE TROOPS ACTUALLY POSITION THEMSELVES IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND COMMUNITIES INSIDE OF AFGHANISTAN.

>> IS IT TEMPTING BUT SHOULD WE STEP BACK FROM COMPARING IRAQ TO AFGHANISTAN AT THIS STAGE IN THE GAME?

>> I THINK IT'S REALLY A FALSE COMPARISON. IT'S NOT EVEN APPLES AND ORANGES IT IS LIKE APPLES AND BICYCLES. ONE IS LARGELY URBAN, ANOTHER IS LARGELY RURAL. AFGHANISTAN IS VERY DECENTRALIZED. LACKS A LOT OF COHEESEIVE STRUCTURES THAT THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT DID HAVE UNDER SADDAM HUSSEIN. SO I THINK THE CHALLENGES ARE FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT. AND I WOULD ADD TO IT, IN AFGHANISTAN, WE HAVE AN AREA IN PAKISTAN, NEIGHBORING AFGHANISTAN WHERE INSURGENTS ACTUALLY USE THAT TERRITORY TO STRIKE AGAINST THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT.

>> Suarez: TO AFTER-- SO AFTER ALL THESE YEARS OF STANDING UP INSTITUTIONS WE STILL PEAL IN COMPARISON TO WHAT IRAQ HAD AFTER SADDAM?

>> I WOULDN'T GO-- I THINK THAT THAT IS ACTUALLY PROBABLY TRUE. I AGREE WITH BRIAN'S STATEMENT THAT THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN. BUT WHAT IS REALLY HURTING US I THINK IN AFGHANISTAN HAS BEEN YEARS OF NEGLECT OF THAT WAR WHILE WE FOCUSED ON IRAQ, STARTING FROM A MUCH LOWER BASE. AND SO WE'RE WORKING NOW FINALLY TO BUILD AN AFGHAN ARMY, AN AFGHAN GOVERNMENT, AFGHAN INSTITUTIONS THAT IN TIME WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE OVER RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE COUNTRY'S GOVERNANCE AND SECURITY THEMSELVES. AND THIS, I THINK, IS THE ONE WAY WHERE IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN ARE A REASONABLE COMPARISON. THAT IS THAT IN IRAQ WE ARE NOW ABLE TO INCREASINGLY HAND RESPONSIBILITY OFF TO IRAQI FORCES AND IRAQI GOVERNMENT. WE ARE BUILDING TOWARD THAT DATE IN AFGHANISTAN. I THINK IT'S STILL SEVERAL YEARS AWAY.

>> Suarez: BUT HERE WE ARE WITH CHARGES OF EPIDEMIC CORRUPTION. KARZAI CHARGING THAT AMERICAN STRATEGY HAS NOT REALLY KILLED INSURGENTS AS MUCH AS KILLED AFGHAN CIVILIANS. ARE WE DEALING WITH A HEAD OF STATE THAT SEES HIS OWN COUNTRY THE WAY WE DO AS WE FIGHT THE WAR?

>> THE STATEMENTS FROM PRESIDENT KARZAI ARE VERY WORRISOME. CLEARLY HIS STATEMENTS THAT AMERICAN FORCES, INTERNATIONAL FORCES ARE NOT KILLING INSURGENTS IS INCORRECT. WE KNOW FROM OUTSIDE OBSERVERS, FROM U.N. AGENCIES THAT THE TALIBAN INSURGENTS ARE KILLING THREE TIMES MORE CIVILIANS THAN THE INTERNATIONAL SECURITY FORCES ARE, PRESIDENT KARZAI KNOWS THAT WE ARE BEING ENORMOUSLY EFFECTIVE. THE TALIBAN IS HAVING A HARD TIME RECRUITING AND KEEPING SHADOW GOVERNORS OF ITS PROVINCES AN DISTRICTS BECAUSE WE'RE SO EFFECTIVE AT REMOVING THEM NOW. SO HIS STATEMENTS ARE NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH REALITY AS WE KNOW IT, AND AS HE SHOULD KNOW IT. SO I AM VERY CONCERNED BY HIS STATEMENTS. I'M MUCH MORE CONCERNED ABOUT PRESIDENT KARZAI THAN I AM BY THE COUNTER INSURGENCY STRATEGY WE ARE FOLLOWING OR EVEN THESE GRIEVOUS LOSSES.

>> Suarez: BRIAN KATULIS DO YOU AGREE WITH THE LIEUTENANT COLONEL'S LITNY OF PROGRESS?

>> WELL, I DISAGREE WITH ONE POINT HE MADE, THE POINT ABOUT COUNTERINSURGENCY. WE REALLY DEPEND ON OUR LOCAL PARTNER TO MAKE COUNTERINSURGENCY EFFECTIVE. I THINK JOHN ACTUALLY AGREES WITH THAT POINT. A BIG PART OF THE CHALLENGE IN AFGHANISTAN FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN, MY TRIP THERE LAST SUMMER TOO, I SAW, WAS A LACK OF SERIOUSNESS OF PURPOSE ON THE PART OF SOME OF OUR AFGHAN PARTNERS, STARTING WITH KARZAI BUT AROUND HIS INNER CIRCLING. SO WE CAN'T DO IT FOR THEM, TO A LARGE EXSENT. AND I THINK THIS IS PART OF COUNTERINSURGENCY STRATEGY. BUT IF WE DON'T HAVE A LEGITIMATE PARTNER, ARE YOU LOOKING AT A SITUATION MUCH LIKE WHAT WE SAW IN VIETNAM AND OTHER PLACES. YOU CAN'T DO COUNT INSURGENCY IN FAILED STATES N STATES THAT ARE FUNDAMENTALLY DIVIDED. IT WORKS IN PLACES LIKE COLUMBIA WHERE THERE WAS A COHERENT GOVERNMENT PARTNER T DOESN'T WORK IN PLACES LIKE AFGHANISTAN AS WELL, I DON'T THINK, AND EVEN IN IRAQ, THERE IS A MYTH ABOUT THE COUNTERINSURGENCY'S SUCCESS THERE BECAUSE THERE WERE MANY OTHER FACTORS THAT ACTUALLY DISTRIBUTED-- CONTRIBUTED TO THE DECLINE IN VIOLENCE AND WE STILL SEE THE LACK OF A COHERENT PARTNER IN THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT.

>> Suarez: BUT TAKE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND PLAY IT OUT INTO THE FUTURE.

>> RIGHT.

>> Suarez: DOES THE UNITED STATES AND ITS ALLIES IN AFGHANISTAN HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL SOMEONE TAKES HAMID KARZAI'S PLACE ON THE SCENE? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING?

>> NO, I'M SUGGESTING, ACTUALLY, ONE ANY I WOULD SUGGEST, ACTUALLY, TIME LINES ARE GOOD. ACTUALLY PUTTING PARTNERS ON NOTICE, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE MYTHS I THINK OF THE IRAQ WAR DEBATE, WHEN WE ACTUALLY SEND A SIGNAL IN 2005-2006 THROUGH OUR CONGRESS, THROUGH OUR MIDTERM ELECTIONS THAT WE WEREN'T STAYING THERE FOR A LONG TIME, THE ANBAR AWAKENING, THE SUNNI GROUP THAT ACTUALLY WOKE UP AND TURNED AGAINST AL QAEDA, THE THING THAT MOTIVATED THEM, ONE OF THE THINGS, WAS THE SENSE THAT THE U.-- U.S. WAS NOT GOK THERE FOREVER. AND ONE OF THE FLAWS IN COUNTERINSURGENCY AS IT IS APPLIED THESE DAYS IS THAT ACTUALLY FOSTERS THIS DYSFUNCTIONAL CULTURE OF DEPENDENCE AND MORAL HAZARD ON THE PARTS OF PARTNERS. IT IS IRONIC IN AFGHANISTAN, THIS COUNTRY THAT IS EXTREMELY POOR, THE LEADERS ARE VERY WEAK, THAT WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXERCISE LEVERAGE OVER SOMEONE LIKE KARZAI SIX YEARS INTO THIS WAR.

>> Suarez: YOU JUST SAID WE CAN'T DO IT FOR THEM. WELL, THE UNITED STATES HAS TRIPLED ITS COMMITMENT OF PERSONNEL ON THE GROUND. ITS RAMPED UP ITS SPENDING. WHAT ARE WE DOING IF WE ARE NOT DOING IT FOR THEM?

>> WE ARE BUILDING FINALLY AFGHAN SECURITY FORCES THAT IN TIME WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE OVER RESPONSIBILITY FOR SECURING THEIR OWN COUNTRY. AND THIS IS EXACTLY THE STRATEGY THAT WE FOLLOWED IN IRAQ. I'M GOING TO DISAGREE PRETTY STRONGLY WITH BRIAN ON HIS ASSESSMENT OF THE SURGE IN IRAQ. WHAT HAPPENED THERE IN 2005-2006 IS WE GAVE INDICATIONS THAT WE WEREN'T FULLY COMMITTED TO SUCCESS. THE AFGHANS WOULDN'T WORK WITH US. IT WAS ONLY WHEN, AND I HAVE TALKED TO THE COLONELS WHO HAD THESE INTERACTIONS WITH THE PEOPLE WHO THE AWAKENING, THE IRAQI TRIBAL LEADERS WHO DECIDED TO STAY WITH US AND FIGHT AGAINST AL QAEDA AND IRAQ, WHEN WE TOLD THEM WE ARE WITH YOU FOR THE LONG HAUL, WE'RE GOING TO STAY AND WIN THIS THING THAT IS WHEN THE AWAKENING HAPPENED, WHEN THE TRIBAL GROUPS REALLY CAME TOGETHER TO FIGHT AGAINST AL QAEDA. SO WE HAVE TO SHOW THIS KIND OF COMMITMENT TO AN AFGHAN GOVERNMENT THAT IS IMPROVING BROADLY ALTHOUGH NOT YET AT THE TOP. AND I AM FRANKLY FLUMMOXED ABOUT WHAT TO DO ABOUT PRESIDENT KARZAI AND HIS RECENT STATEMENTS. AND I FIND THAT A GRAVE STRATEGIC CONCERN.

>> Suarez: BUT THERE IS ENOUGH OF A CORE OF AFGHAN OPPOSITE NUMBERS, YOU ARE YOU ARE SAYING, THAT WE CAN CONTINUE, THE UNITED STATES CAN CONTINUE ON THIS MISSION AND SUCCEED.

>> THERE ARE A NUMBER OF BRAVE AND COMMITTED AFGHANS AT THE DISTRICT LEVEL, AT THE PROVINCIAL LEVEL, INSIDE THE ARMY, INCREASINGLY INSIDE THE POLICE SO THERE IS A FOUNDATION ON WHICH TO BUILD. BUT IT WOULD BE FAR, FAR BETTER IF WE HAD BETTER LEADERSHIP AT THE TOP THAT WAS COMMITTED TO AN AFGHAN GOVERNMENT THAT IS DEDICATED TO THE WELL-BEING OF ALL OF BEGANS.

>> QUICK RESPONSE.

>> AT THIS STAGE I THINK THE BIG QUESTION WE NEED TO ASK IS WHERE DOES THIS FIT IN THE BROADER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY STRATEGY. AND THE QUESTION I HOPE IS DEBATED THIS FALL IS WHAT IS ESSENTIAL FOR KEEPING AMERICANS SAFE. BECAUSE WHEN YOU SEE REPORTS LIKE THE CIA REPORT LAST WEEK THAT SAID THAT YEMEN IS A MORE URGENT TERRORIST THREAT THAN PAKISTAN OR AFGHANISTAN, IT RAISES QUESTIONS AS TO WHETHER WE'RE OVERLEVERAGED IN AFGHANISTAN. IF YOU GO BACK TO THAT CENTRAL QUESTION, ARE WE KEEPING AMERICANS SAFE.

>> BRIAN KATULIS , JOHN NAGLE, THANK YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU, RAY.

>> Woodruff: STILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR, THE DRAW DOWN OF U.S. FORCES IN

>> Woodruff: STILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR, THE DRAWDOWN OF U.S. FORCES IN IRAQ; THE GLENN BECK RALLY IN WASHINGTON; AND THE BUSINESS OF ENTERTAINMENT TELEVISION. BUT FIRST, THE OTHER NEWS OF THE DAY. HERE'S HARI SREENIVASAN IN OUR NEWSROOM.

>> Sreenivasan: PRESIDENT OBAMA PROMISED NEW MEASURES TODAY TO BOOST THE SLUGGISH ECONOMIC RECOVERY. HE SPOKE BRIEFLY IN THE WHITE HOUSE ROSE GARDEN, A DAY AFTER RETURNING FROM VACATION.

>> MY ECONOMIC TEAM IS HARD AT WORK IN IDENTIFYING ADDITIONAL MEASURES THAT COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE BOTH IN PROMOTING GROWTH AND HIRING IN THE SHORT- TERM AND INCREASING OUR ECONOMOY'S COMPETITIVENESS IN THE LONG TERM-- STEPS LIKE EXTENDING THE TAX CUTS FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS THAT ARE SET TO EXPIRE THIS YEAR.

>> Sreenivasan: THE PRESIDENT ALSO URGED ACTION ON NEW ASSISTANCE FOR SMALL BUSINESS THROUGH A PENDING JOBS BILL. SENATE REPUBLICANS HAVE BLOCKED THE BILL. THEY SAY THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT BUSINESSES ARE WORRIED ABOUT POSSIBLE TAX INCREASES. THE PRESIDENT'S REMARKS DID LITTLE TO EASE WALL STREET'S CONCERNS ABOUT THE RECOVERY. STOCKS WERE DOWN BEFORE HE SPOKE, AND FELL FURTHER AFTERWARD. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE NEARLY 141 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 10,009. THE NASDAQ FELL MORE THAN 33 POINTS TO CLOSE BELOW 2120. THE FLOOD WATERS IN PARTS OF PAKISTAN RECEDED FURTHER TODAY, AND THOUSANDS MORE REFUGEES BEGAN HEADING HOME. IN SOME PLACES, PEOPLE CROWDED INTO ANY BOAT AVAILABLE TO BEGIN THE JOURNEY BACK OR JUST TO GET TO SAFER GROUND. FISHING BOATS ALSO BROUGHT FOOD AND WATER TO HUNGRY SURVIVORS, BUT THERE WERE WIDESPREAD SHORTAGES, AND SOME FISHED TO FEED THEMSELVES.

>> SOMETIMES WE GET FOOD, SOMETIMES NOT. ALL THE LEADERS OF THE AREA HAVE ALL THE FOOD AND CONTROL IT AND DISTRIBUTE IT AS THEY WANT. SO IT DEPENDS ON THEM IF YOU GET ONE OR THREE MEALS A DAY.

>> Sreenivasan: MORE THAN 1,600 PEOPLE HAVE DIED IN THE FLOODS, BUT OFFICIALS SAY THEY EXPECT TO FIND MANY MORE BODIES AS THE WATER LEVELS DROP. RESCUERS IN CHILE PLANNED TO BEGIN DRILLING A SHAFT TODAY TO REACH 33 MINERS. THEY'VE BEEN TRAPPED UNDERGROUND SINCE EARLY AUGUST. WE HAVE A REPORT NARRATED BY ROHIT KACHROO OF INDEPENDENT TELEVISION NEWS.

>> MORE THAN.

>> SOME APPEAR THIN NEVER THE LATEST IMAGES TO EMERGE FROM UNDERGROUND. THEY DELIVER MESSAGES HOME ONCE AGAIN, AND SOME SHOW US THE ITEMS THEY'VE RECEIVED FROM GROUND LEVEL. ONE READS A MESSAGE FROM A COLLEAGUE WHO ISN'T SEEN IN THE VIDEO. HE SAYS HIS FAMILY WILL UNDERSTAND WHY HE HASN'T APPEARED. PLAN B IS TO WIDEN THE BORE HOLE CREATED FOR EMERGENCY SUPPLIES WHICH COULD FREE THE MAN IN OCTOBER. ON PLAN A DRILLING IS ABOUT TO BEGIN. THE HALF MILE HOLE BEING BOR HEED AT A RATE OF 20 METER AS A DAY. PHONE LINES WERE DROPPED THROUGH TO ALLOW RELATIVES A PRECIOUS 20 SECONDS TO SPEAK DIRECTLY WITH THE MAN FOR THE FIRST TIME. TODAY THE PRAYERS TO THE PATRON SAINT OF MINERS FOR THEIR LOVED ONES ESCAPE FROM HALF A MILE BENEATH THEM.

>> Sreenivasan: THE TRAPPED MINERS WILL HAVE TO AID IN THEIR OWN RESCUE BY CLEARING UP TO 4,000 TONS OF ROCK AS THE NEW SHAFT IS DRILLED FROM ABOVE. THE U.S. WILL EXPAND SANCTIONS AGAINST NORTH KOREA OVER ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM. THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT ANNOUNCED THE MOVE TODAY, UNDER AN EXECUTIVE ORDER BY PRESIDENT OBAMA. IT FREEZES THE ASSETS OF 4 NORTH KOREAN INDIVIDUALS PLUS SEVERAL STATE-RUN COMPANIES AND GOVERNMENT AGENCIES. THE INDIAN GOVERNMENT HAS DELAYED A POSSIBLE BAN ON BLACKBERRY SERVICES FOR AT LEAST 60 DAYS. THAT CAME AFTER THE DEVICE'S MAKER, RESEARCH IN MOTION, AGREED TO ALLOW ACCESS TO HEAVILY ENCRYPTED DATA. A NUMBER OF GOVERNMENTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND ASIA HAVE DEMANDED ACCESS TO SECURE CORPORATE E-MAILS AND INSTANT MESSAGES ON BLACKBERRYS. THEY SAY MILITANTS COULD USE THE SERVICE TO ESCAPE DETECTION. FORMER MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL STAR ROGER CLEMENS PLEADED NOT GUILTY TODAY TO LYING TO CONGRESS ABOUT STEROIDS. CLEMENS LEFT THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE IN WASHINGTON AMID A CROWD OF PHOTOGRAPHERS. HE WAS ARRAIGNED ON MULTIPLE COUNTS OF MAKING FALSE STATEMENTS, PERJURY, AND OBSTRUCTION OF CONGRESS. AT A HOUSE HEARING IN 2008, CLEMENS INSISTED HE NEVER TOOK STEROIDS OR HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE IN 23 YEARS AS A PITCHER. IF CONVICTED, HE COULD FACE 30 YEARS IN PRISON AND $1.5 MILLION IN FINES. THOSE ARE SOME OF THE DAY'S MAJOR STORIES. NOW, BACK TO JUDY.

>> Woodruff: U.S. COMBAT OPERATIONS IN IRAQ OFFICIALLY END TOMORROW. PRESIDENT OBAMA WILL MARK THE OCCASION WITH AN OVAL OFFICE SPEECH AT 8:00 P.M. EASTERN TIME TUESDAY NIGHT. AND VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN, THE ADMINISTRATION'S POINT MAN ON IRAQ, ARRIVED THERE TODAY. HE'LL TAKE PART IN THE CHANGE OF COMMAND CEREMONIES, AND WILL MEET WITH IRAQI POLITICIANS TO TRY TO HELP BREAK THE MONTHS- LONG DEADLOCK OVER FORMING A GOVERNMENT. BUT U.S. TROOPS HAVE BEEN PULLING BACK FOR MONTHS, TURNING THEIR ATTENTION TO TRAINING IRAQI FORCES. MARGARET WARNER HAS BEEN REPORTING FROM IRAQ. HERE IS THE FIRST OF A WEEK OF STORIES ON HOW THIS TRANSITION IS GOING.

>> Warner: TESTING THEIR TURRET MACHINE GUNS AS THEY LEAVE BASE IS THE ONLY TIME THESE AMERICAN SOLDIERS HAVE FIRED THEIR WEAPONS RECENTLY. THIS U.S. INFANT REE UNIT IS HELPING IRAQ'S FEDERAL POLICE PUSH AL QAEDA AND OTHER MILITANTS OUT OF THE CITY OF MOZUL. THE AMERICANS' COMMISSION IS NOT TO DO THE JOB BUT T TO-- ADVISE AND ASSIST THE IRAQIS AS THEY DO IT. ROLLING TOWARD TOWN THIS HOT AUGUST MORNING, A CONVOY OF IDENTICAL IRAQI AND U.S. ARMOURED HUMVEES. THE ADVISOR, U.S. ARMY LIEUTENANT COLONEL DAN REED.

>> THE WORD RIGHT NOW IS THE SIGHT OF... .

>> Warner: THE ADVISEY, AN IRAQI FEDERAL POLICE BY GRADE-- BRIGADE COMMANDER AND TODAY A MAN VERY MUCH IN CHARGE. HE IS INSPECTING HIS UNIT'S OUTPOSTS IN WEST MOZUL. HE SHOWS US THE SITES OF TWO CAR BOMB EXPLOSIONS LATE LAST YEAR, BOTH TARGETING HIM. AS WE MOVE ON TO THE VERY HEART OF TOWN, IT'S GENERAL HAMID'S MEN WHO FAN OUT AND PROVIDE SECURITY FOR HIM, FOR US AND FOR U.S. LIEUTENANT COLONEL REED THIS IS ONE OF THE MAIN MARKET STREETS OF MOZUL, TIP CALF THE CROWDED MARKETPLACES WHERE THEY HAVE FOUND HAVEN. BUSINESSES ARE OPEN, PEOPLE ARE SHOPPING. THESE ARE ODE CITIZENS THE IRAQI POLICE HAVE TO PERSUADE THEY CAN PROTECT.

>> AL QAEDA MAY ATTACK YOU THAT IS WHY WE HAVE A POST NOT FAR AWAY TO PROTECT YOU.

>> Warner: UNDER THE WATCHFUL EYE OF GENERAL HAMID WE ASKED THE JEWELRY STORE OWNER HOW GOOD A JOB THE POLICE DOING?

>> IN THE PAST WE OPEN OUR SHOP ONCE OR TWICE A WEEK DEPENDING ON THE SECURITY. NOW WE ARE OPEN EVERY DAY.

>> Warner: GENERAL HAMID EXUDES CONFIDENCE.

>> THE IRAQI FORCES ARE IN CONTROL. I TOOK YOU TO THE HOTTEST SPOT IN MOZ UL AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE MARKET IS FLOURISHING.

>> Warner: BUT HE MAKES NO BONES ABOUT THE FACT THAT HE RELIES ON THE AMERICANS.

>> YOU STILL FEEL IF SOMETHING GETS REALLY HOT, SOMETHING HAPPENS, YOU NEED THE AMERICANS TO COME IN WITH THEIR COMBAT POWER, YOU'LL GET IT.

>> IF WE HAVE AN OFFENSIVE IN A REMOTE AREA, WE PROBABLY WILL NEED THE AMERICANS FOR AIR POWER AND LOGISTIC SUPPORT TO HELP US.

>> Warner: BACK ON BASE, GENERAL HAMID DISPLAYED A SEIZED TERRORIST ARSENAL. LANDMINES, MORTAR, SUICIDE VESTS, CELL PHONE DETONATERS. AND A 2002 DODGE MINIVAN RIGGED TO DELIVER A CAR BOMB. HE EVEN TROTTED OUT A GROUP OF WHAT HE SAID WERE RECENTLY CAPTURED TERRORIST DETAINEES. ALL THIS, HE AND COLONEL REED INSISTED, WAS THE WORK OF THE IRAQI FEDERAL POLICE.

>> WE'RE IN THE BACKSEAT, HELP THEM OUT HOWEVER WE CAN BUT THEY ARE THE ONES DOING THE JOB. AND REALLY THEY ARE WEANING THEMSELVES OFF IT BECAUSE THEY ARE GETTING BETTER AND THEY KNOW THEY WILL HAVE TO DO IT.

>> Warner: COLONEL REED'S TROOPS ARE FREE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES OR THEIR FELLOW U.S. SOLDIERS BUT HE SAW NOTHING REMARKABLE IN THE FACT THAT ONLY ONE U.S. INFANT REEMAN HAD BEEN BY HIS SIDE IN TOWN.

>> AND YOU WON'T SEE AMERICAN ASSETS IN THE CITY. FEDERAL POLICE HAVE CONTROL OF IT. THEY ARE MY PARTNERS. I WORK DIRECTLY WITH THEM. THEY PROTECT ME. THEY HAVE FOR THE LAST TWO MONTHS THAT I HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THEM. I TRUST THEM IMPLICITLY WITH OUR SECURITY.

>> Warner: THIS CHANGE IN ROLES HAS COME OVER THE PAST YEAR AS THE PENTAGON PULLED TWO-THIRDS OF ITS FORCE. 95,000 TROOPS AND MORE THAN A MILLION PIECES OF EQUIPMENT OUT OF IRAQ. IT'S THE DIRECT RESULT OF PRESIDENT BUSH'S PLEDGE TO GET ALL U.S. FORCES OUT BY DECEMBER 2011. AND PRESIDENT OBAMA'S ORDER TO CUT TO 50,000 TROOPS AND END COMBAT MISSIONS BY TOMORROW AUGUST 31st. WE CHOSE MOZUL TO EXPLORE HOW THE NEW MISSION IS WORKING BECAUSE IT'S A MICROCOSM OF THE TENSIONS THAT STILL PLAGUE IRAQ. THE CITY, 250 MILES NORTHWEST OF BAGHDAD, IS WEDGED BETWEEN MEDDLESOME NEIGHBORS, SYRIA, TURKEY AND IRAN. IT'S ALSO HOME TO AL QUITE -- AL QAEDA INSURGENTS AND TWO MUTUALLY SUSPICIOUS ETHNIC GROUPS. THE IRAQI ARABS AND THE KURDS. BRIGADIER-GENERAL THOMAS VANDEL, A DEPUTY U.S. COMMANDER FOR THE NORTHERN THIRD OF IRAQ SAYS TWO YEARS OF JOINT U.S.-IRAQI COMBAT OPERATIONS HAVE CUT ATTACKS HERE BY 90% TO ONLY 10 TO 15 A WEEK. BUT HE SAYS THE DAYS OF JOINT COMBAT MISSIONS ARE OVER.

>> THERE IS A LITTLE APPREHENSION, CERTAINLY AS I ENGAGE PIE COUNTERPARTS, GENERAL OFFICERS IN THE IRAQI SECURITY FORCE. THEY HAVE ALL SAID WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO REMAIN HERE. THEY'RE CONFIDENT IN THEIR ABILITIES, BUT THEY'VE BECOME ACCUSTOMED TO OPERATING WITH US AND CONFIDENT IN OUR ABILITIES.

>> Warner: AT THE MAIN U.S. BASE IN MOZUL, MORE THAN THE SEARING AUGUST HEAT EXPLAINS THE NEAR EMPTY ROADWAYS. TROOP NUMBERS HERE ARE HALF OF WHAT THEY ONCE WERE . BUT THE REMAINING SOLDIERS ARE BUSY. SOME ARE PROTECTING THE STATE DEPARTMENT CIVILIAN RECONSTRUCTION TEAM. WHO MUST LEAVE THE SECURE COMPOUND TO WORK IN LOCAL IRAQI COMMUNITIES ON EVERYTHING FROM AGRICULTURAL PROJECTS TO JUDICIAL ETHICS. AND HOVERING OVER THE BASE AND THE SURROUNDING CITY, GIANT WHITE SURVEILLANCE BLIMPS THAT COLLECT CRITICAL INTELLIGENCE.

>> THE BIGGER PICTURE UP HERE IS A SHOT FROM A BALLOON. AND BASICALLY WHAT IT GIVES US IS THE ABILITY TO SEE EXTENDED RANGES IN DAYTIME AND NIGHTTIME.

>> Warner: COLONEL CHUCK SEXTON COMMANDER OF THE THIRD INFANT REE DIVISION SECOND BY GRADE HAS BROUGHT US TO THE HUB OF IT ALL, THE TACTICAL-- TACTICAL NAVIGATION CENTER LOOKS LIKE NASA MISSION CONTROL WITH LIFE FEED-- LIVE FEED FROM TOWERS, DRONES AND BLIMPS, CRUCIAL EYES AND EARS FOR THE IRAQIS AND FOR U.S. COUNTERTERRORISM SPECIAL FORCES WHO AREN'T BEING DRAWN DOWN AT ALL.

>> THERE WERE TER RIGGSS THAT WERE PLACING EXPLOSIVES ON THE POWER LINES ATTEMPTING TO BLOW THEM UP. WHEN OUR CAMERAS SAW THEM, WE CONTACTED THE IRAQI ARMY AND THE IRAQI POLICE AND LET THEM KNOW THAT THIS WAS GOING ON. THEY RAN. THEY RAN RIGHT INTO THE IRAQIS. THE IRAQIS WERE ABLE TO ARREST THEM.

>> WE ASKED HIM IF HE HAS MORE CONFIDENCE-- CONFIDENT IN THE IRAQIS THAN THEY DO IN THEMSELVE.

>> I HAVE SEEN THEM PRETTY MUCH QUELL WHAT USED TO BE A PRETTY DANGEROUS PART OF IRAQ. AND THEY HAVE DONE IT WITH A LEVEL OF SKILL AND A LEVEL OF BRAVERY THAT WOULD MAKE ANY ARMY PROUD.

>> TELL THAT TO THE BAGHDAD RESIDENTS WE FOUND STANDING TWO WEEKS AGO AT THE SITE OF ONE OF THE CITY'S WORST SUICIDE ATTACKS OF THE YEAR. NEXT TO A POOL OF BLOOD, A PILE OF DISCARDED SHOES. EACH PAIR REPRESENTING AN IRAQI WHO FELL AND A HAIL OF LETHAL SHRAPNEL.

>> IT IS NORMAL IN IRAQ NOW EVERY DAY.

>> Warner: AFTER NEARLY TWO YEARS OF STEADILY DECLINING BLOODSHED, VIOLENCE HAS BEEN ON THE UPTICK FOR THE PAST TWO MONTHS. THE IRAQIS ARE IN CHARGE OF SECURITY IN THE CITIES AND THEIR MAIN LINE OF DEFENSE ARE CHECK POINTS LIKE THESE.

>> FOR THE PRESENT MOMENT, THE SITUATION IS UNSTABLE AND THE ARMY IS USING THESE CHECK POINTS TO CONTROL THE SITUATION.

>> Warner: IRAQI CHECK POINTS THEMSELVES ARE BECOMING TARGETS AS THEY WERE LAST WEEK IN A STRING OF ATTACKS AIMED AT UNDERMINING IRAQI'S CONFIDENCE IN THEIR GOVERNMENT AND SECURITY FORCES. BAGHDAD RESIDENT JESMA WAS GLOOMY WHEN ASKED ABOUT THE U.S. FORCE DRAWDOWN.

>> I THINK WE NEED AMERICA HERE. WE NEED THE AMERICA HERE. I THINK SO.

>> Warner: ONE CITIES THAT'S HAD ITS FILL OF AMERICAN TROOPS IS FALLUJAH WEST OF BAGHDAD IN THE HEART OF THE SUNNI TRIANGLE. IT WAS IN FALLUJAH? 2004 THAT FOUR AMERICAN SECURITY CONTRACTORS WERE KILLED. THEIR BODIES BURNED AND STRUNG UP ON THIS BRIDGE. THAT TOUCHED OFF TWO MAJOR AMERICAN OFFENSIVES TO ROUTE IRAQI INSURGENTS FROM THIS CITY. NOW AFTER A PERIOD OF JOINT CONTROL, IRAQI FORCES ARE IN CHARGE. THOUGH PARTS OF FALLUJAH HAVE BEEN REBUILT AND SECURITY REFOR-- RESTORTED, WE COULD ONLY TRAVEL THERE UNDER THE PROTECTION OF FEDERAL AND LOCAL POLICE WHO WARNED US NOT TO LINGER ON THE STREETS MORE THAN 10 MINUTES AT A TIME. FROM SOME OF THE RESIDENTS JOCKEYING FOR AN AUDIENCE AT CITY HALL COME REPORTS OF AN UPTICK IN TARGETED KILLINGS IN TOWN. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE HEAD OF THE CITY COUNCIL SHEIKH HAMID AL HASHIM WANTS U.S. TROOPS BACK IN FALLUJAH OR NEARBY. ARE YOU HAPPY TO SEE THEM GO.

>> OF COURSE I'M REALLY HAPPY. WE DON'T WANT FOREIGN MILITARY IN OUR COUNTRY. WE WANT THE AMERICANS TO VISIT US IN CIVILIAN CLOTHES ON CIVILIAN AIRPLANES.

>> Warner: YET SHEIKH HAMID FIRES TROUBLE AFTER THE U.S. DRAWDOWN IN THE UNRESOLVED STATUS OF THE SONS OF IRAQ, SUNNI FIGHTERS WHO JOINED FORCES WITH THE U.S. TO DRIVE AL QAEDA OUT. AFTER THE U.S. STOPPED PAYING THEM, HE SAID, THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT DIDN'T PICK UP THE BALL.

>> YOU FIND THEM UNEMPLOYED, STUCK AT HOME, OR WANDERING IN THE STREETS. AND THAT IS A PROBLEM. THEY COULD BE RECRUITED BACK BY THE INSURGENCY.

>> Warner: BACK IN BAGHDAD SUNNI SHEIKH JABAR, AN EARLY LEADER OF THE SONS OF IRAQ MOVEMENT BROUGHT A CHILLING WARNING. THE FORMER FIGHTERS ARE LOYAL TO THE GOVERNMENT, HE SAYS. BUT SOME 400 HAVE BEEN ASSASSINATED BY AL QAEDA AND HUNDREDS MORE HAVE REJOINED THE INSURGENCY.

>> IF THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT TAKE CARE OF THE OTHERS, WE COULD GO BACK TO THE STATE WE WERE IN 2005 OR 2006.

>> Warner: IF THEY ARE SO LOYAL TO IRAQ, WHY WOULD THEY JOIN THE INSURGENCY. THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE?

>> NOBODY IS PAYING THEM. AL QAEDA AND OTHERS WILL. AFTER ALL, THEY HAVE FAMILIES TO FEED.

>> Warner: OF EVEN GREATER WORRY TO THE SHRINKING U.S. FORCES HERE IS THE DISPUTED BOUNDRY BETWEEN IRAQI ARABS AND KURDS UP NORTH. IT'S CAUSED ETHNIC TENSIONS TO FLARE AND GIVEN AL QAED QAEDA-LINKED GROUPS A CHUNK OF TERRITORY TO EXPLOIT. EARLIER THIS YEAR THE TWO SIDES AGREED TO COMBINE CHECK POINTS AND PATROLS. AMONG KURDISH MILITIAS, ARAB ARMY AND POLICE AND U.S. SOLDIERS. WITH A FEW HICCUPS IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING TO REDUCE FRICTION.

>> BEFORE ON THIS VERY ROAD WOULD YOU HAVE AN IRAQI ARMY CHECK POINT. AND A ANOTHER CHECK POINT IN THE MIDDLE THERE WAS NOBODY WATCHING.

>> Warner: LIEUTENANT COLONEL KAUFMAN OVERSEES A STRING OF THESE CHECK POINTS EAST OF MOZUL. ONE TEAM TOOK HIM TO A NEARBY BRIDGE WHERE THEY JUST CARRIED OUT A JOINT MISSION TO RECOVER AND DESTROY A HIDDEN IED.

>> AS FAR AS THE TENSION BETWEEN THE KURDS AND ARABS, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS BECAUSE THERE'S CONVERSATION. BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE ARE TALKING WHETHER IT'S THE HIGHEST POLITICAL LEVELS OR THE LOWEST GRASS ROOTS, AS LONG AS WE HAVE COMMUNICATION, PARTICULARLY IN THIS REGION IN THE WORLD, THEY WORK OUT THE PROBLEMS.

>> Warner: IN OUR OWN CONVERSATION WITH THE ARABS AND KURDS BACK AT THE CHECK POINT, WE HEARD SOME OF THE SAME OPTIMISM BUT A DISQUITING NOTE AS WELL.

>> WE ARE ONE GROUP. IRAQI ARMY , IRAQI POLICE, ALL WORKING TOGETHER. WE ALL BELONG TO ONE COUNTRY.

>> Warner: WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE IMPACT WHEN THE AMERICANS ULTIMATELY LEAVE HERE. WILL YOU STILL WORK TOGETHER?

>> YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, WHEN THE AMERICANS LEAVE, EVERYTHING WILL COLLAPSE. BECAUSE EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE IN CONTROL. DO YOU THINK IF SOMEONE ATTACKS YOU, WE WOULDN'T SUPPORT YOU.

>> Warner: IT WAS ONE SMALL WINDOW INTO THE IRONY THAT HAUNTS THE U.S. DOWNSIZING HERE. AFTER SO MANY YEARS OF WISHING THE AMERICAN TROOPS WOULD LEAVE, IRAQIS FIND THEMSELVES WORRYING IF THEY CAN KEEP IT TOGETHER WITHOUT THEM.

>> Suarez: IN HER NEXT REPORT MARGARET LOOKS AT THE DAILY LIFE OF IRAQIS UNDER THE PROTECTION OF THEIR OWN FORCES.

>> Woodruff: NOW TO THE WEEKEND RALLY ON THE NATIONAL MALL AND THE THRONGS WHO SHOWED UP TO ANSWER FOX NEWS HOST GLENN BECK'S CALL.

>> Woodruff: .

>> Woodruff: TENS OF THOUSANDS RALLIED NEAR THE STEPS OF THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL IN WASHINGTON SATURDAY MORNING FOR AN EVENT WITH OVERTONES OF A CHRISTIAN REVIVAL. THE ORGANIZER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR GLENN BECK ANNOUNCED THE GATHERING WAS ABOUT RESTORING HONOR.

>> THIS DAY IS A DAY THAT WE CAN START THE HEART OF AMERICA AGAIN. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH GOD. EVERYTHING, TURNING OUR FAITH BACK TO THE VALUES AND THE PRINCIPLESS THAT MADE US GREAT.

>> Woodruff: DESPITE BECK'S STATEMENT ABOUT NO POLITICS, THE OTHER FEATURED SPEAKER WAS FORMER REPUBLICAN VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION NOMINEE SARAH PALIN.

>> I KNOW THAT MANY OF US TODAY, WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT WE FACE. SOMETIMES OUR CHALLENGES, THEY JUST SEEM INSURMOUNTABLE. BUT HERE TOGETHER, AT THE CROSSROADS OF OUR HISTORY, MAY THIS DAY, MAY THIS DAY BE THE CHANGE POINT. LOOK AROUND YOU. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. YOU ARE AMERICAN!

>> Woodruff: HIGHLIGHTING THEMES OF FAITH, HOPE AND CHARITY, BECK RECOGNIZED SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS. AMONG THEM BAPTIST MINISTER CL JACKSON OF HOUSTON.

>> GOD BROUGHT US HERE TO THROUGH THIS BRIGHT, YOUNG, I CALL HIM SERVANT OF GOD, SON OF GOD, GLENN BECK.

>> Woodruff: ANOTHER WAS BASEBALL SUPERSTAR ALBERT PUJOLS OF THE SAINTED LOUIS CARDINALS WHO DREW CHEERS. THE CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING BECK'S RALLY GREW OUT OF THE FACT IT WAS SCHEDULED EXACTLY 47 YEARS AFTER MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. DELIVERED HIS "I HAVE A DREAM" SPEECH ON THE STEPS OF THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL. ACROSS TOWN, A GROUP OF CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS LEAD BY THE REVEREND AL SHARPTON HELD A COUNTERRALLY AT A WASHINGTON D.C. HIGH SCHOOL.

>> LET US PRAY, DEAR GOODE.

>> Woodruff: FOLLOWED BY THE MARCH AT THE SITE OF A PLANNED KING MEMORIAL. SHARPTON URGED HIS CROWD TO SHOW RESTRAINT IF CONFRONTED BY THOSE WHO RALLIED WITH BECK.

>> THEY WANT TO DISGRACE THIS DAY. AND WE ARE NOT GIVEN THEM THIS DATE. THIS IS OUR DAY AND WE AIN'T GIVING IT AWAY.

>> Woodruff: THE EVENT SATURDAY REMAINED PEACEFUL. BUT BY SUNDAY THE RHETORIC WAS INFLAMED YET AGAIN IN AN APPEARANCE ON FOX NEWS, BECK RENEWED HIS CRITICISM OF PRESIDENT OBAMA'S FAITH.

>> WHAT DOES THE PRESIDENT BELIEVE? FOUR DIFFERENT SPEECHES SINCE HE'S BEEN PRESIDENT, HE HAS TOLD, AND MAINLY INSTITUTES, THAT YOUR SALVATION IS DIRECTLY TIED TO THE COLLECTIVE SALVATION. THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT MOST CHRISTIANS RECOGNIZE. I'M NOT DEMONIZING IT. I DISAGREE WITH IT.

>> Woodruff: SPEAKING WITH BRIAN WILLIAMS OF NBC NEWS YESTERDAY IN NEW ORLEANS, THE PRESIDENT WAS ASKED ABOUT THE BECK RALLY AND WHAT IT SAID ABOUT THE COUNTRY. MR. OBAMA SAID THE FRUSTRATION WAS UNDERSTANDABLE. GIVEN THE MANY CHALLENGES THE NATION FACES.

>> GIVEN ALL THOSE ANXIETIES, AND GIVEN THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, IN NONE OF THESE SITUATIONS ARE YOU GOING TO FIX THINGS OVERNIGHT, IT'S NOT SURPRISING THAT SOMEBODY LIKE A MR. BECK IS ABLE TO STIR UP A CERTAIN PORTION OF THE COUNTRY. THAT'S BEEN TRUE THROUGHOUT OUR HISTORY.

>> Woodruff: THAT MUCH WAS EVIDENT BY THE LARGE TURNOUT ON THE NATIONAL MALL SATURDAY. FOR MORE ON THE RALLY AND THE MAN BEHIND IT WE ARE JOIN JOINED BY KATE ZERNIKE OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES" AND AUTHOR OF THE SOON-TO-BE-RELEASED BOOK, "BOILING MAD: INSIDE TEA PARTY AMERICA." AND DAVID VON DREHLE, EDITOR-AT- LARGE FOR "TIME" MAGAZINE. OOD TO YOU HAVE BOTH WITH US. DAVID, I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU. YOU DID WRITE TIME'S COVER STORY ON GLENN BACK LAST YEAR. REMIND US WHO HE IS, WHERE HE CAME FROM. TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HIS BACKGROUND.

>> WELL, GLENN BECK COMES FROM TOP 40 MORNING ZOO RADIO. THAT'S WHERE HE STARTED OUT HIS CAREER AS A GOOFY GUY DOING RADIO STUNTS. HE DID THAT THROUGH THE '80s AND THE '90s. HE HAS TALKED ABOUT HIS BATTLES WITH ALCOHOLISM. HE CONQUERED THAT IN PART BY JOINING THE MORMON CHURCH, STRAIGHTENED OUT HIS LIFE AND SINCE THEN HAS BEEN MOVING IN THE DIRECTION OF BECOMING MORE OF A CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO HOST. BUT HIS POLITICS ARE VERY GRADUALLY EVOLVING. AND THERE'S STILL A BIG PART OF THAT MORNING ZOO, ENTERTAINMENT ORIENTED, EVENT ORGANIZING ENTREPRENEURIAL SPIRIT TO THE KIND OF WORK THAT BECK DOES.

>> Woodruff: SO HOW DID HE GET TO THE POINT THAT HE CAN ATTRACT SUCH A HUGE CROWD AT THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL?

>> WELL, HE'S A GREAT PROMOTER. I REALLY THINK IT'S THREE THINGS, JUDY. NUMBER ONE, HE TAPPED INTO A SPIRIT THAT IS REAL AS THE PRESIDENT WAS SAYING IT THERE ARE A LOT OF FRUSTRATED PEOPLE OUT THERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW. NUMBER TWO, BECK IS IMMENSELY TALIGENT-- TALENTED AND VERY HARDWORKING. HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING. AND NUMBER THREE, THE MEDIA HAVE CHANGED. AND SO BECAUSE OF TECHNOLOGY PEOPLE CAN NOW BE REACHED IN THE IDEAOLOGICAL NICHE OR ENTERTAINMENT NICHE THAT THEY CHOOSE. AND SOBEK'S AUDIENCE WHICH ON TELEVISION IS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN 2 AND 3 MILLION PEOPLE A DAY, BACK IN THE DAYS OF BROADCAST THAT WOULD HAVE GOTTEN HIM CANCELLED. BUT TODAY THAT CAN BE A DYNAMIC, LARGE AUDIENCE.

>> Woodruff: KATE YOU COVERED THE RALLY YESTERDAY. AS WE'VE SAID, YOU HAVE WRITTEN THE BOOK. HE SAID HE DIDN'T WANT THIS RALLY TO BE ABOUT POLITICS. HE DID HAVE SARAH PALIN TALK AND YOU WROTE IN YOUR STORY THAT THE CROWD WAS A MIX OF PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN THE TEA PARTY. SO WAS IT POLITICAL OR NOT?

>> WELL, I THINK IT WAS CERTAINLY POLITICAL IN SARAH PALIN'S REMARKS. AND I THINK THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE THERE WHO SEEMED TO EXPECT MORE. THEY WERE SURVIVE-- SURPRISED BY THE OVERTLY RELIGIOUS US TONES AND WERE EXPECTING MORE OF A POLITICAL RALLY AND I THINK THEY WILL GET THAT IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS. REMEMBER THERE WILL BE ANOTHER SERIES OF RALLIES SEPTEMBER 11th AND 12th IN WASHINGTON AGAIN AND THAT WILL BE MUCH MORE OVERTLY POLITICAL. AND BECK IS WORKING WITH SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO WILL BE ARRANGING THOSE RALLIES. I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THESE BOOK ENDS TO TEA PARTY ACTION IN WASHINGTON THESE FEW WEEKS .

>> Woodruff: SO HOW DO YOU SEE THE OVERLAP, KATE, BETWEEN THE TEA PARTY FOLKS, FOLKS WHO MAY BE PART OF THAT MOVEMENT, AND THEN THIS RESTORING HONOR THEME THAT BECK WAS TALKING ABOUT ON SATURDAY?

>> RIGHT, WELL I THINK, REMEMBER THAT THE-- SO THE TEA PARTY STARTED IN FEBRUARY OF 2009. AND ABOUT THREE WEEKS LATER GLENN BECK HAD A SPECIAL EPISODE OF HIS PROGRAM ON FOX WHERE HE CALLED FOR THE FORMING OF THESE NINE 12 GROUPS WHICH WERE SORT OF THE GLENN BECK BRAND OF TEA PARTY SO THERE IS A LOT OF OVERLAP BETWEEN THOSE GROUPS BUT IN TERMS OF RESTORING HONOR, THIS IS KIND OF CLASSIC POPULISM. I MEAN THROUGHOUT HISTORY AND AGAIN AS THE PRESIDENT SAID, WE'VE SEEN THIS AND PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT RESTORING THE REAL AMERICA. AND IN PARTICULAR, THROUGH THE SENSE THAT THEY ARE THE REAL AMERICANS AND THEY'RE WORKING AGAINST THESE ELITES. AND I THINK IN THIS CASE THEY SEE THE ELITES AS THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION AND THE DEMOCRATS IN CHARGE OF CONGRESS.

>> DAVID, YOU'VE STUDIED, SPENT TIME LOOKING AT GLEN BECK, WHAT DOES HE WANT TO RESTORE EXACTLY? WHAT IS IT THAT HE IS TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH?

>> DOES HE KNOW.

>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE GREAT MYSTERY OF GLEN BECK. THESE THINGS, THESE PROTEC PROTECT-- PROJECTS OF HIS SEEM TO HAVE THE SORT OF MADE UP ON THE FLY KIND OF QUALITY TO THEM. THEY ARE ALWAYS BUILT AROUND SORT OF GREAT BUT VAGUE CONCEPTS LIKE HONOR. WE'RE ALL IN FAVOR OF HONOR. THE CONSTITUTION IS AT THE HEART OF HIS 9-12 PROJECT. MOST AMERICANS ARE IN FAVOR OF THE CONSTITUTION. AND BECK IS ALWAYS PROMISING IN HIS SHOWS THAT HE'S GOING TO BRING MORE AND MORE DEFINITION TO THESE IDEAS. BUT SOMEHOW THAT PART OF IT NEVER QUITE HAPPENS. AND I THINK HE UNDERSTANDS THAT THE MORE HE DEFINES THESE IDEAS, THE MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DISAGREE WITH THEM. AND SO HE'S TRYING TO BUILD THE BIGGEST TENT HE CAN IN HIS NICHE AND DRAW IN AS MANY PEOPLE AND HOLD THEM AS LONG AS HE CAN. SO SOME PEOPLE THINK IT'S ABOUT RELIGION. SOME PEOPLE THINK IT'S ABOUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT. SOME PEOPLE THINK IT'S ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS. BECK WILL OFTEN SAY THAT HE HATES THE REPUBLICANS AS MUCH AS THE DEMOCRATS. SO HE KEEPS IT DELIBERATELY VAGUE.

>> Woodruff: AND KATE FROM A TEA PARTY PERSPECTIVE, WHAT DO THEY SEE? THIS?

>> WELL, I MEAN, THESE ARE ABSOLUTELY TEA PARTY THEMES IN TERMS OF GETTING BACK TO THE CONSTITUTION AND REALLY BEING REALLY PATRIOTIC. AND SO HE'S HITTING ALL THE RIGHT NOTES. AND IN TERMS OF WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION, HE'S TALKING ABOUT A VERY SPECIFIC, ORIGINALIST VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION WHICH SAYS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE FOUNDING FATHERS VERY MUCH HAD RELIGION IN MIND WHEN THEY WROTE THE CONSTITUTION AND THAT WE SHOULD BE A MORE RELIGIOUS SOCIETY. HE'S SAYING THINGS LIKE THAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS DID NOT BELIEVE WE WOULD HAVE A PUBLIC SAFETY NET IT IS A VERY SPECIFIC VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION WHICH IS ACTUALLY WHAT A LOT OF TEA PARTYERS ARE LEARNING WHEN THEY TAKE THESE CONSTITUTION CLASSES. I MEAN THE FOUNDING FATHERS AND THE TEA PARTY METAPHORS ACTUALLY NOT A METAPHOR FOR THEM. IT'S A FRAME OF MIND. THEY VERY MUCH SEE THEMSELVES IN THAT TRADITION AS SORT OF DEFENDING AGAINST A FAR OFF CARELESS GOVERNMENT WHICH THEY SEE NOW AS WASHINGTON RATHER THAN BRITAIN.

>> Woodruff: AND DAVID, I WAS ABLE TO WATCH SOME OF GLENN BECK'S SHOW LATE THIS AFTERNOON AND HE SPENT A LOT OF TIME TALKING, REALLY CRITICIZING THE MEDIA COVERAGE OF THE RALLY. AND SAYING HE HAD NOT BEEN GIVEN CREDIT FOR WHAT WAS ACCOMPLISHED THERE.

>> RIGHT, YOU KNOW. BASHING THE MEDIA IS A BIG PART OF THIS ANTI-ELITE VIEWPOINT THAT HE'S CAPITALIZING ON. AND THE BEAUTY OF THAT IS THAT EVERYTHING IS THE MEDIA NOW. YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING FROM PEOPLE WITH A BLOG TO "TIME" MAGAZINE, TO THIS SHOW. YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL THE MEDIA. SO HE'S ALWAYS RIGHT ABOUT THAT. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOME MEDIA SOMEWHERE THAT IS NOT GIVING HIM THE CREDIT THAT HE DESERVES. AT THE SAME TIME THAT HE'S BEING COVERED TO AN EXTENT THAT, YOU KNOW, VERY FEW RADIO PERSONALITIES, TELEVISION PERSONALITIES EVER HAVE BEEN.

>> Woodruff: KATE, YOU MENTIONED THAT HE HAS A POLITICAL RALLY SCHEDULED A FEW WEEKS FROM NOW. WHERE DO YOU SEE THIS GOING? ESPECIALLY AS WE GET CLOSER TO ITS MIDTERM ELECTION?

>> WELL, I THINK WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE MORE AND MORE ARE SOME OF THESE TEA PARTY GROUPS LIKE FREEDOM WORKS WHICH IS DICK ARMEY'S GROUP, FORMER HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER DICK ARMEY, THEIR GROUP WORKING WITH GLENN BECK. THEY HAD A CONVENTION FRIDAY NIGHT BEFORE THE BECK EVENT ON SATURDAY. AND I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THEM MOVING VERY MUCH IN TANDEM AND KIND OF, YOU KNOW, STOKING THIS ANTI-ELITISM AND THIS VOTER ANGER. AND I THINK THAT IS REALLY GO TOKAI HUGE-- THAT IS WHERE THE TEA PARTY WILL HAVE IMPACT IF THEY HAVE IMPACT IN NOVEMBER IN THE MIDTERM IS IN GETTING PEOPLE TO THE POLLS. AND AGAIN AS DAVID WAS SAYING T VAGUE IN SOME WAYS SO HE IS NOT NECESSARILY SAY GOING TO SPECIFIC CANDIDATES. BUT IN THE END IT'S REALLY GOING TO HELP REPUBLICANS BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE ALL THIS ENERGY IS GOING.

>> Woodruff: JUST QUICKLY, LAST WORD, HELP US UNDERSTAND. YOU SAID HIS IDEOLOGY IS EVOLVING BUT BOTH YOU ARE SAYING THIS HELPS REPUBLICANS.

>> I THINK IT DOES. I MEAN ESPECIALLY MID-YEAR ELECTIONS, JUDY, ARE ABOUT ENERGY. THEY'RE ABOUT MOTIVATION. AND THE RIGHT IS MOTIVATED THIS YEAR IN THE SAME WAY THAT TWO YEARS AGO IT WAS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ON THE LEFT THAT HAD THE ENERGY. AND SO WHEN YOU SEE THAT KIND OF A GATHERING THAT WE SAW OVER THE WEEKEND, THAT'S GOT TO CONCERN DEMOCRATIC OFFICE HOLDERS. BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO GO VOTE TO KEEP THE INCUMBENTS IN.

>> WELL, WE THANK BOTH OF YOU FOR TALKING WITH US. DAVID VON DREHLE, KATE ZERNIKE, THANK YOU.

>> Suarez: FINALLY TONIGHT, THE CHANGING LANDSCAPE OF THE TELEVISION BUSINESS. JEFFREY BROWN LOOKS AT WHAT IT MEANT ON TV'S BIG AWARD NIGHT.

>> Brown: FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW THE EMMYS, TV'S MOST PRESTIGIOUS AWARDS HAVE BEEN SIGNALING A MAJOR SHIFT IN QUALITY PROGRAMMING. FROM BROADCAST NETWORKS TO CABLE.

>> AND THE EMMY GOATS TOZZ "MAD MEN"

>> Brown: LAST NIGHT THAT SHIFT WAS STILL ON DISPLAY. AMONG THE WINNERS, A M.C.'S "MAD MEN" TOOK HOME THE BEST DRAMA AWARD FOR THE THIRD YEAR IN A ROW.

>> WHO IS DON DRAPER?

>> Brown: BEFORE MAD MEN CAME ALONG, IN FACT, A M.C. WAS PRIMARILY KNOWN FOR SHOWING CLASSIC FILMS. BUT THIS YEAR ANOTHER A M.C. SERIES "BREAKING BAD" TOOK TWO ACTING AWARDS INCLUDING ONE FOR BRIAN CRANSTON.

>> I FEEL GLUTTONOUS AND I AM-- IT'S MORE THAN I CAN TAKE IN. IT REALLY IS.

>> Brown: CABLE ALSO SCORED WHEN KYRA SEDGWICK WON LEAD ACTRESS IN A DRAMA FOR HIS ROLE IN THE "THE CLOSER" AND PERENNIAL WINNER HBO TOOK YET MORE STATUES INCLUDING FOR ITS WORLD WAR II THEMED "THE PAS CIVIC" WINNER IN THE BEST MINISERIES CATEGORY.

>> WE'RE NOT ENGINEERS. WE'RE ARTISTS, WE ARE PEOPLE THAT ESSENTIALLY BUILD A CAMP FIRE, HANG AROUND AND WE CAN KEEP YOU ENTERTAINED FOR TEN HOURS. THAT'S WHAT WE DO.

>> AND THE EMMY GOES TO "MODERN FAMILY"

>> BUT THIS YEAR, OLD-FASHIONED BROADCAST TV ALSO SHOWED NEW LIFE." MODERN FAMILY "ABC'S SHOW ABOUT A DIVERSE, EXTENDED FAMILY WON FOR BEST COMEDY SERIES IN ITS FIRST SEASON. IT WAS THE FIRST ABC COMEDY IN MORE THAN 20 YEARS TO RECEIVE THAT AWARD.

>> TO OUR FANS, WE ARE SO GRATEFUL. WE ARE SO THRILLED THAT FAMILIES ARE SITTING DOWN TOGETHER TO WATCH A TELEVISION SHOW.

>> Brown: ANOTHER POPULAR NEW COMEDY" GLEE "ON THE FOX NETWORK PICKED UP TWO AWARDS AND JIM PARSONS OF CBS'S" THE BIG BANG THEORY "WAS NAMED BEST LEAD ACTOR IN A COMEDY SERIES. THIS BATTLE FOR QUALITY AND EYEBALLS, OF COURSE, COME AS MID A MUCH LARGER AND LONG TERM SHIFT IN VIEWING HABITS AS CONSUMERS HAVE EVER MORE ENTERTAINMENT OPTIONS INCLUDING HOW AND WHERE THEY WATCH THESE VERY TELEVISION PROGRAMS. AND FOR MORE ABOUT THE BUSINESS OF CABLE AND BROADCAST TV WE'RE JOINED BY MATTHEW BELLANY, MANAGING EDITOR FOR "THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER" AND TIM BROOK, WHO HAS BEEN AN EXECUTIVE AT A NUMBER OF NETWORKS INCLUDING LIFETIME, USA, SCI-FI AND NBC. HE IS AUTHOR OF THE BOOK THE COMPLETE DIRECTLY OF PRIME TIME NETWORK AND CABLE SHOWS. TIM, WE HAVE SEEN THIS ON HBO AND SHOWTIME FOR SOME TIME BUT WHAT EXPLAINS THE RECENT RISE OF ORIGINAL PROGRAMMING ON CABLE THAT DEPENDS ON ADVERTISING. WHAT'S GOING ON?

>> WELL, ORIGINAL PROGRAMMING FOR CABLE SERVES A DIFFERENT PURPOSE THAN IT DOES FOR BROADCAST NETWORKS IT IS A BRANDING TOOL FOR NETWORKS. BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE CHOOSE MAYBE 10 OR 15 NETWORKS OUT OF THE 100 THAT ARE AVAILABLE, THEY ARE NETWORKS THEY GO TO ROUTINELY. AND IF YOU HAVE SOME VERY STRONG RECOGNIZABLE SHOWS ON THOSE NETWORKS THAT BRING VIEWERS THAT HADN'T WATCHED YOU BEFORE LIKE AN FX OR BRAVO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEN THEY START TO WATCH OTHER THINGS ON THE NETWORK. SO IT SAN IMPORTANT TOOL TO BUILD A NETWORK BRAND.

>> Brown: MATTHEW, EXPAND ON THAT. SOME OF THESE SHOWS GET VERY SMALL AUDIENCES EVEN IF THEY GET A LOT OF ACCLAIM. SOME ARE DOING PRETTY WELL BUT THEY'RE NOT MASS AUDIENCES. SO HOW DO YOU SEE THE ECONOMIC MODEL?

>> WELL, THEY DON'T NEED A MASS AUDIENCE TO BE SUCCESSFUL ON THESE NETWORKS. LIKE TIM WAS SAYING, YOU CAN SELL ADVERTISING ON THESE SHOWS THERE ARE MULTIPLE REVENUE STREAMING FOR CABLE REVENUE. THEY GET PAID A FEE BY CABLE SYSTEMS WHEN THEY CARRY THE SHOW, CARRY THE NETWORK. SO YOU GET TWO REVENUE STREAMS COMING IN AND YOU REALLY JUST NEED A BRAND THAT PEOPLE KNOW. AND THEY SAY YOU KNOW WHAT, I REALLY LIKE THE A M.C. CHANNEL. I LIKE THAT CHANNEL. I WANT TO HAVE IT ON MY CABLE SYSTEM AND THAT'S REALLY VALUABLE FOR THOSE NETWORKS.

>> Brown: SO MATTHEW STAYING WITH YOU. LAST NIGHT WE SEE SOME OF THE CABLE SHOW DOES VERY WELL BUT SOME OF THE OLD BROADCAST SHOWS DOING WELL, MODERN FAMILY, GLEE, THE GOOD WIFE WE MENTIONED A FEW OF THEM. WHAT'S BEEN THE RESPONSE TO, FROM BROADCAST TO THE RISE OF CABLE?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE'S BEEN AN AWAKENING OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS BY BROADCAST EXECUTIVES WHERE THEY SAY TO THEMSELVES, YOU KNOW, TO COMPETE IN THIS UNIVERSAL WHERE THE CABLE NETWORKS ARE DOING EDGIER PROGRAMMING WITH BIG STARS AND GETTING A LITTLE BIT MORE BOUNDRY PUSHING IN TERMS OF THE CREATIVE THEY PUT ON THE AIR THE NETWORKS HAVE COME BACK AND SAID WE CAN DO A FEW OF THOSE SHOWS OURSELVES. IF YOU LOOK AT MODERN FAMILY AND GLEE, THOSE ARE SHOWS THAT THEY ARE A LITTLE BIT EDGIER. THERE IS A GAY COUPLE ON MODERN FAMILY AND" GLEE "IS A SHOW THAT PUSHES BOUNDARIES AND HAS A LOT OF SORT EDGIER FAIR IN IT I THINK THE NETWORKS ARE SAYING WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO COMPETE HERE AND CREATIVELY THEY ARE IN A CERTAIN EXTENT.

>> TIM BROOKS WHAT WOULD YOU ADD TO THAT. CAN THEY ALL SURVIVE AND THRIVE IN A SENSE?

>> THEY, THEY CAN ON THE PROGRAMMING. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT IN THE '70s AND '80s IT WAS A VERY CLOSED SYSTEM IN THE UNITED STATES. THREE NETWORKS AND THEY ALL PRETTY MUCH DID THE SAME THING T UNLIKE BRITAIN THAT HAD A FARM CLUB SORT OF WHERE THEY COULD DEVELOP NEW KINDS OF EDGY PROGRAMMING. BUT NOW WITH KIBL, THE REALLY EDGY AND BOUNDARY PUSHING STUFF STARTS ON CABLE, PERHAPS ON THE PAPER NETWORKS AND MIGRATES TO BROAD-BASED CABLE NETWORKS AND EVENTUALLY TO THE BROADCAST NETWORKS THEMSELVES.

>> Brown: STAY WITHING YOU, IN THE MEANTIME WHILE THIS GOING ON, WE ARE ABOUT TO GET A NEW ROUND OF VERY EXPENSIVE PROGRAMS FROM THE PREMIUM CABLE NETWORKS LIKE HBO. HOW CAN THEY AFFORD TO CONTINUE DOING THAT?

>> WELL, THE PAY NETWORKS HAVE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MODEL. THEY DEPEND ON SUBSCRIBER REVENUE ENTIRELY. SO YOU HAVE TO PAY 10, 12 DOLLARS A MONTH TO GET HBO OR SHOWTIME. SO THEY REALLY HAVE TO CONVINCE VIEWERS THAT THEY HAVE GOT SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL THAT YOU CAN'T GET ANYWHERE ELSE. SO TO THEM THE SOPRANOS OR SEX IN THE CITY OR A VERY WELL-KNOWN VERY ACCLAIMED PROGRAM IS ESSENTIAL TO THEIR SURVIVAL BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE ADVERTISING TO FALL BACK ON THE WAY THE BASIC NETWORKS DO.

>> WHAT WOULD YOU ADD TO THAT?

>> WELL, ONE THING TO ADD IN THE PAY CABLE CONTEXT IS THAT YOU KNOW TEN YEARS AGO WHILE IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOMETHING SPECIAL TO HAVE AN ORIGINAL SERIES ON PAY CABLE THAT WOULD BE LIKE AN HBO SOP AN-- SOP RAN OS, NOWADAYS THOSE SHOWS EXIST ON MOST OF THE FREE CABLE NETWORKS. SO WHAT YOU SEE IS HBO AND SHOWTIME REALLY UPPING THE ANTE NOW. HBO IS DEVELOPING SHOWS WITH KATE WINSLET, WITH DIANNE KEATON, REALLY A LIST PEOPLE. THEIR BOARDWALK EMPIRE PILOT HAS BEEN DIRECTED BY MARTIN SCORSESE. SO THEY ARE REALLY UPPING THE ANTE IN TERMS OF THE TALENT THEY ARE ASSOCIATING THEMSELVES WITH. AND THEY ARE DOING THAT IN ORDER TO DISTINGUISH THEMSELVES IN AN UNIVERSAL THAT HAS BECOME MORE CROWDED.

>> Brown: THEN JUST TAKE THIS A STEP FURTHER, MATTHEW. YOU HAVE EVERYBODY THINKING ABOUT THE RISE IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO STILL WATCH TV BUT NOT NECESSARILY ON THEIR TV SET AND CERTAINLY NOT AT A GIVEN TIME, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S TRUE. I MEAN THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF SERVICES CROPPING UP. THE STUDIOS HAVE HULO WHICH IS A VERY POPULAR SERVICE. ALL THE NETWORKS HAVE ABC.COM, NBC.COM. ALL OF THEIR VARIOUS WEB PROPERTIES. IT'S PRETTY INTERESTING BECAUSE I DON'T THINK ANYONE HAS REALLY FIGURED OUT WHAT THE MODEL IS YET. THE GUY WHO CREATED" MODERN FAMILY "FOR INSTANCE HAS BEEN VERY CRITICAL OF HULU BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW, HE SAYS, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY WATCHING ON THAT. AND HE CERTAINLY DOESN'T KNOW HOW MUCH HE SHOULD BE PAID BUT HE THINKS HE NEEDS TO BE PAID A LITTLE BIT MORE.

>> Brown: WITH YOU AS HULU AND OTHERS PROGRESS, DOES THAT EFFECT OR DO WE SEE IT OR MIGHT WE SEE IT EFFECT WHAT KIND OF SHOWS GET PRODUCED?

>> YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS HAPPENING YET IN TERMS OF THE NETWORKS SPECIFICALLY DEVELOPING SHOWS FOR THOSE PLATFORMS. RIGHT NOW IT SEEMS THAT THERE IS VERY MUCH A LET'S TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE CONTENT WE'RE CREATING ACROSS ALL PLATFORMS WHETHER TV, HULU, STREAMING, ET CETERA. BUT I THINK IN THE FUTURE WILL YOU START TO SEE A SHIFT AS THE CONSUMERS SHIFT.

>> Brown: THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> TAKE CARE.

>> Woodruff: AGAIN, THE MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS OF THE DAY. SEVEN U.S. SOLDIERS WERE KILLED IN AFGHANISTAN, IN ADDITION TO SEVEN OTHERS KILLED OVER THE WEEKEND. VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN ARRIVED IN IRAQ, IN ADVANCE OF THE FORMAL END OF THE U.S. COMBAT ROLE THERE. AND PRESIDENT OBAMA PROMISED NEW MEASURES SOON TO HELP THE SLUGGISH ECONOMIC RECOVERY. BUT IT WASN'T ENOUGH TO BOOST WALL STREET. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE DROPPED 140 POINTS. THE NEWSHOUR IS ALWAYS ONLINE. HARI SREENIVASAN, IN OUR NEWSROOM, PREVIEWS WHAT'S THERE. HARI?

>> Sreenivasan: READ MARGARET'S BLOG POST ABOUT U.S. SOLDIERS RETOOLING A SOVIET-ERA TANK IN IRAQ. ON THE POLITICAL CHECKLIST, JUDY AND DAVID CHALIAN PREVIEW PRESIDENT OBAMA'S PRIME TIME SPEECH ON IRAQ AND DISCUSS THE ADMINISTRATION'S REACTION TO BAD ECONOMIC NEWS. AND ON ART BEAT, GULF COAST POET NATASHA TRETHAWEY READS FROM HER LATEST BOOK, "BEYOND KATRINA." ALL THAT AND MORE IS ON OUR WEB SITE, newshour.pbs.org. JUDY?

>> Woodruff: AND THAT'S THE NEWSHOUR FOR TONIGHT. ON TUESDAY, WE'LL HAVE FULL COVERAGE OF PRESIDENT OBAMA'S OVAL OFFICE ADDRESS ON THE LAST DAY OF COMBAT OPERATIONS IN IRAQ. I'M JUDY WOODRUFF.

>> Suarez: AND I'M RAY SUAREZ. WE'LL SEE YOU ONLINE, AND AGAIN HERE TOMORROW EVENING. THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT. MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY: AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU. Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org